In short
Two hosts swap paranormal hotel stories, focusing on a Bend, Oregon stay at Riverside Lodge that included a motion-sensor light triggering during a nightmare, vivid “faces” seen with eyes closed, fear-filled sleep, and later corroboration via a front-desk call; they also briefly discuss an Amsterdam Hoxton hotel stay with unsettling history and a malfunctioning digital lock.
Guests (hosts)
Jacqueline (frequent solo hotel traveler; reports fear responses, “no nightmares” until Bend; describes clairvoyant-like “black-and-white negative” face imagery when eyes close) and Kate (best friend; provides reactions, asks questions, and shares the “he’s God-fearing” wake phrase; later discusses protective/archangel Michael framing).
Key claims
Bend felt like an “energy vortex”; she repeatedly woke at night with no dream, then said “he’s God fearing” aloud; within seconds the motion light went off; she later saw a man, a smiling woman, then a skeletal ghoul-like face; she smelled cigarette smoke; a loud bang coincided with a nearby meth lab explosion; a clock blinked “344” after switching rooms.
Notable examples
Riverside Lodge room layout by a river; motion detector at ankle height; ball bouncing back in a lucid dream; room 2122; Amsterdam Hoxton’s digital lock battery failure and Nazi-era building history.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPersonal Paranormal Experiences
0:45 to 2:14
Kate shares her personal experiences with ghost sightings and fear.
“I think maybe I give off an impression of, oh, I'm a ghost person.”
Arrival in Bend, Oregon
2:14 to 3:47
Discussion about Kate's arrival in Bend and the eerie feelings she experienced.
“I just remember feeling like, it's weird here.”
The Hotel Stay and Initial Fear
3:47 to 5:54
Kate describes her hotel room setup and the fear she felt after waking up suddenly.
“They're like, okay, there's this building, there's this building, there's that building.”
The Mysterious Motion Light
5:54 to 7:50
Kate recounts the strange occurrence of a motion light turning on unexpectedly.
“I go, I wake myself up saying he's God fearing.”
Nightmares and Lucid Dreams
7:50 to 9:08
Kate shares her experience of having nightmares and a lucid dream after the incident.
“I mean, we can look back and see the text, but I was scared.”
Visions and Encounters
9:08 to 11:06
Kate describes vivid visual experiences and figures she saw during her sleep.
“And so the next one that I have is lucid.”
Reactions to the Encounters
11:06 to 14:00
Discussion on Kate's emotions and reactions during the paranormal experiences.
“And I want to describe that to him, I think I was like 16, and he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that sometimes.”
Nightmares and Strange Occurrences
14:00 to 17:44
The hosts share eerie experiences from a hotel stay, including nightmares and unsettling sounds.
“And then, And in those moments, I have to say, I don't feel scared necessarily.”
Nightmares and Strange Occurrences
17:47 to 18:51
The hosts share eerie experiences from a hotel stay, including nightmares and unsettling sounds.
“Well, dare I say it's the perfect time to refresh the wardrobe just like you did in your school days with pieces that feel as good as they look.”
Unusual Events and a Bad Show
19:10 to 28:00
The hosts recount a series of strange occurrences following a hotel explosion and a disappointing performance.
“like houses shaking, like a huge explosion.”
Show all 20 chapters
Searching for Spiritual Imagery
28:00 to 30:51
The hosts discuss their quest for a meaningful image of Archangel Michael and share personal spiritual practices.
“But this protective sword whole kind of thing and just cutting through the darkness.”
Haunted Experiences and Ghostly Questions
32:06 to 39:08
The hosts engage in a humorous and curious discussion about hauntings and a recent hotel stay that sparked ghostly inquiries.
“I know I Googled this at night, but Bend, Oregon.”
Amsterdam Adventures
39:08 to 42:00
Jacqueline shares her recent experiences in Amsterdam, setting the stage for her travel stories.
“I believe it's around like 70 years old.”
Journey to Amsterdam: Setting the Scene
42:00 to 44:43
Learn about the host's recent trip to Amsterdam and their hotel choice.
“Well, should I tell you about Amsterdam now?”
The Hoxton Experience: A Mixed Bag
44:43 to 47:56
Discover the quirks and frustrations of staying at the Hoxton hotel.
“And they're like, this is the new Hoxton by the river.”
Haunted History of the Hotel
47:56 to 54:09
Explore the unsettling history of the hotel and its past occupants.
“So beyond no coffee in the room, you know, like, and I'm looking around, I'm pretty, I'm almost positive no room service ever.”
A Spiritual Farewell
54:09 to 56:04
Hear about the emotional goodbye to the hotel and its spirits.
“And then I took a lot of footage, actually, like kind of in this, on these show you later sort of thing.”
Reflections on Travel and History
56:04 to 57:29
Exploring the emotional impact of traveling alone and the historical weight of places.
“Maybe in, you know, you walk around, you know, Europe, like, I don't know, like, maybe you really got to tie that velvet bag, like, a little tighter.”
The Nature of Ghost Stories
57:36 to 59:04
Discussing the nuances of storytelling, especially in relation to ghost tales.
“Well, by the way, one thing that's funny, I want to make a comment on the nature of ghost stories.”
Conjuring Conversations
59:12 to 1:00:21
Sharing thoughts on horror films and the emotional resonance they can evoke.
“And then, you know, I wouldn't recommend it probably for you, but Conjuring last rights came out.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02Kate Berlant:Two best friends, both alike in dignity, nurturing phantoms and courting the muse. The hag divines when something must die. Yes, that was Poogh. But this is huge. The ego loves to seek, but never to find. It was Berlant and Novak the whole time. It's just so wild that you see them, Kate. And to everyone joining, we're talking about ghosts. Yes.
0:27Jacqueline Novak:Well, listen, I'm just going to get, I have a paranormal, she's cracked a Celsius. I have a paranormal event that I'm going to talk about. And listen, I think people might go, people who, well, I mean, these aren't people. These are the hags. Okay. These are the eavesdroppers. They know. I think maybe I give off an impression of, oh, I'm a ghost person. I'm not, I don't want to see ghosts. I'm scared of ghosts. I have deference and fear. I just not open to it. You, Jacqueline, have helped me realize that I have seen a couple guys. I think so. When I saw my - Sounds like it. I've got Grand Canyon floating bust woman smiling, but I had no fear.
1:08Jacqueline Novak:And then I had, and this really shocks me, I had no fear in London. Man, top hat, full coat, peacoat, the whole thing. No fear. Which brings me to this, where there was fear. Okay, so I am arriving in Bend, Oregon, where I've never been before. Have you ever been there? No. Which I've later learned is like an energy vortex or whatever.
1:33Kate Berlant:Because I Googled it immediately, I think, when you were texting me. Oh, really? Yeah, I went running to Google.
1:39Jacqueline Novak:A local told me that too. Anyway, so I have to say, I get there, I land, I'm like walking. so here's a classic I get there at like I get there at 3 40 the room's not ready I go guys and and the the festival that I was performing at they put me up at a hotel and I was I was there for two nights I was I the point is room's not ready I'm like okay so thank god there's a health food store across the street across the highway so I walk across to the health food store and I swear to god just in the light I was like it was there's an eerie glow you mean once you're outside Yeah, like I just was walking.
2:19Jacqueline Novak:I just remember feeling like, it's weird here. Like just, I felt this thing. Like I remember feeling like, oh, this feels like an Ari Aster movie. Scary. Like I was just like this. I just, I remember having that thought.
2:34Kate Berlant:The tube. The level. Sorry, because the tube. Oh my God. As they say, it's on strike. So traffic's at Nolta High, I guess.
2:44Jacqueline Novak:Okay, that's what we're hearing in the background, folks. London traffic. so and I thought of you I thought of Pug and I do have a photo for the for the eavesdroppers because I I go I just bought I ended up not having to spend buy a single food item when I was in Bend I made all my own food because it was like damn and by made I just mean like yeah like I did the classic on a salad thing sugar I bought olive oil I bought I was thinking of you I go this is crazy by although for two days I go well no one bottle is the price of one shitty bowl that I ordered Exactly. You know? So anyway, so I go into the room and I, and I, do I name the hotel?
3:21Jacqueline Novak:So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a longer river.
3:24Kate Berlant:Business will only, unless there's issues with the hotel otherwise, but like paranormal business will be booming. So you might as well.
3:31Jacqueline Novak:Okay. So it's called the Riverside Lodge. And I. Sounds about right. And it's kind of, it's kind of one of those things where it's sort of a converted motel. I didn't look up how old it was. I should now, but where the rooms are kind of updated. So I get, and it's big, like it's a huge property. They're like, okay, there's this building, there's this building, there's that building. Whoa. So I go into my room and I just opened the door and I was like, hmm. And so it's one of those things where there's a living room with doors open onto a river. Truly, it's a beautiful river. And then there's a bedroom.
4:03Jacqueline Novak:And then there are a couple steps up to the bathroom area.
4:06Kate Berlant:Is the bathroom by the door? Sorry, I know this is really specific. The bathroom is by the, so it's like front door. So you enter on a landing kind of and then descend two steps into the living room. You're unbelievable.
4:15Jacqueline Novak:It's like you're there. That's crazy. Okay. Yes. So, and you know, it has a microwave, it has a little fridge, whatever, big living room. I'm packing my groceries and stuff. Um, new me, new life. I literally go to the gym there, which is, um, beautiful gym by the way. Really? Yeah. And so then I go back to my room that night I have off and I'm tired. I'm quite tired. So I fall asleep 10 o 'clock, 10 30. I'm out like a light. Okay. And then, oh, okay, key detail. So when I'm turning off the lights to the room, whatever, getting into bed, I notice, as we've established, the step up to the bathroom entrance area.
4:56Jacqueline Novak:And I thought, like, oh, wow, that's – because I, as we know, I tragically pee in the night. And I was like, that's a hazard. And then I see, oh, there's a motion detector light right there at ankle height. Up on the step. On the step at ankle height. I can tell that this is going to be highly relevant and I think I know why. So there's emotion like at ankle height on the step. I go, okay, that's smart. Cause you know, so you don't trip and die. Okay. So I pass out cold. I wake up, my eyes do the thing, which is, I'm sorry to say it. It's what happened the last few times when I had a kind of sighting, let's say, where my eyes just open.
5:37Jacqueline Novak:Like there's no, there's no coming to, there's no dream, there's no sound, just like completely boom. So my eyes open, boom. And here's what, and here's what's strange. I say out loud, and this is what wakes me up. So weird. He's God fearing with an apostrophe. He's God fearing with a hard G. I go, I wake myself up saying he's God fearing.
6:06Kate Berlant:And I thought. With the, like, so the, even though, but you don't remember or feel like there was a dream. No dream attached whatsoever. That was leading it. So it's almost like, you know, there's nothingness, right? I just, you're nowhere. And then suddenly you are eyes waking up cleanly going, he's God fearing. Yep. Truly. Okay. Got it. Got it.
6:28Jacqueline Novak:And it was like the words were in my mouth and they were waking me up. because there was no dream attached. I was like, what the fuck? And I wake up. He's God-fearing. The sound of it wakes me up. I wake up, and I'm just kind of staring, and then boom, within five seconds, the motion light goes off, and I'm flooded with fear. I just want to make sure everyone's got the physics
6:52Kate Berlant:because you're on a bed, and you're not rustling blankets that are hanging over onto the floor. No, and to be clear,
7:00Jacqueline Novak:the motion light is in the other room. So let's just say I were waving my arms wildly and would not set it off. I'm in a whole different room. But from where I'm sitting, I can see the open door where there's the steps. And I can't see the motion light itself. I mean, I see the light go off. The sensor itself, I don't even see. But just it's like within seconds, I wake up, I'm in the dark, and then boom, the motion light goes off. And I'm like, fuck. And I'm completely wide awake and I'm scared. And I'm like, are you kidding me? I look over. It is 2.55 a.m. Of course. And I'm like, shit. And I'm like, I'm awake now.
7:38Jacqueline Novak:This is scary. This is scary. This makes no sense. Why would that be going off? And I'm like, there's no one I can call. I'm alone. I text you to be like, and I was like, I'm scared. I mean, we can look back and see the text, but I was scared.
7:53Kate Berlant:I text. Oh, was this? Oh, right. I remember. I think. Oh no, Oh, it was the next day. I remember. Okay.
8:00Jacqueline Novak:But I texted in that moment, knowing that no one would answer because it was the dead of night. But I was so scared. And then, by the way, one of the ways I calmed myself down was like, oh, it's just a poog episode. This is just for poog. Yes. Yes. You're just going to talk about some poog. You're going to be fine. That's beautiful. I thank God by the grace of God because I text Naomi. I'm scared. I'm like, well, they're dead asleep. They happen to be awake because they fell asleep on the couch and were transferring to the bedroom. So thank God. So I talked to them for a few minutes. I'm scared.
8:26Jacqueline Novak:I'm like, all right. all right i'm gonna go back to bed like uh i have to go to sleep so somehow oh no not somehow i down a agent nature magnesium no it's not magnesium it's the sleep keep forgetting but maybe there's my knees in there but the tart cherry packets which i want more of and i need
8:47Kate Berlant:to buy more because they're unbelievable i'd really like to down that get into that they're
8:52Jacqueline Novak:amazing. I down that. I fall asleep. So then, and I am not a nightmare person. I really don't get nightmares. I proceed to have nightmares all fucking night and I'm waking up from them, gasping some of them. And so the next one that I have is lucid. I haven't had a lucid dream in a second. So I'm having a lucid dream that I'm in the bedroom where I am. I'm looking into the hall where the light was, I have a little bouncy ball, like a rubber ball, and I'm bouncing it into the hallway. And in the dream, I'm like, fuck you. Are you there? Like trying to like talk to whatever is, I was like, are you coming out?
9:34Jacqueline Novak:Like, I'm aggressive. I'm like, fine. Are you there? Like, come on, show yourself, bitch. I bounce it, bounce it. It bounces back. As if like thrown from the other room. Exactly. Like, like whoever, whoever, whatever is in the hall bounces it back. and that's really scary in the dream and it and it wakes me up and i go and i do one of those and i wake up and then i'm like chills on my body i feel scared like i just feel this really and i feel creepy i feel like i just don't feel good and i'm like okay cool now i'm awake again and i'm truly just like praying for morning i'm like please let morning come so then and this is where it sounds a little, but so after the ball gets bounced back and I'm really scared, I'm awake.
10:19Jacqueline Novak:I'm like, Oh, I close my eyes and I proceed to cease. And I, I see something which I've seen. This is something that I have from time to time where, and I'm really curious if other listeners have this. The only other person I've heard described this to me is my father who I once described doing this years and years ago. And he was like, Oh yeah, my dad who has zero interest or belief in ghosts or anything even remotely paranormal or anything. I was like, yeah, sometimes when I close my eyes, I can see in like complete, unbelievable photographic detail. And it's like a black and white negative.
10:52Jacqueline Novak:It looks like that faces things like, and the detail is profound. It's like, I'm just looking at a photograph. You're like, it's like, it feels
11:00Kate Berlant:like your eyes are open behind your lids kind of feeling. Yeah, exactly.
11:03Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. And my dad, my dad wants to describe that to him, faces. Oh yeah. An extreme detail. And I want to describe that to him, I think I was like 16, and he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that sometimes. And he was like, I called that the funnies. No. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I always call that the funnies. I was like, what? Excuse me? Oh, because they're kind of like the comic strips? I guess, yeah. Like black and white? Yeah, I guess so. Which is really compelling. We never talked about it again, but so he... Okay, so the ball bounces back. I wake up in terror. I'm like, what the fuck?
11:35Jacqueline Novak:What the fuck? And then I close my eyes, and I see in complete detail a man's face. He's like older. I've never seen him before. Older, wrinkly face. And then I see next to him, a middle-aged woman smiling. She's not scary. Neither of them seem scary, actually. I'm just like looking at them. And then I see, if I may, a fucking ghoulish, scary, skeletal figure. And I was like, ugh. Still with the eyes closed in pure detail. Okay. Okay. And where is the figure?
12:09Kate Berlant:Are the others gone or is it joined the couple? The skeleton one? Because you would describe the man, the woman.
12:18Jacqueline Novak:It's like in succession. Yeah, I see the man. Oh, then the woman. Then the woman. Yes. But I'm kind of aware that they're together. Okay. That's what it seemed like. Okay. Yeah, and then I see the ghoul skeleton. Unless you're a ghoul skeleton. It was brief, but it was like a fucking goddamn ghoul. I don't know how to describe it. It was a scary-looking... face face humanoid obviously somewhat yeah but more more like like i don't know just like a
12:46Kate Berlant:common illustration like yeah yeah like the kind that i would hang up front on halloween like
12:51Jacqueline Novak:completely like a very familiar archetypal that okay and i'm like okay fuck what and how long if is it brief is it seconds it's like one it's like each face is maybe like five seconds now Now why, and I don't mean why.
13:09Kate Berlant:Enough to zero in. I don't mean, right, to go. I don't mean why, like, questioning what you do. This is more to investigate what's happening. Yeah. Why in that moment, the second that you see the skeleton, and I mean like the half second that you first see it, right? Why do you stay with it for two seconds versus pop, open, scream, whatever?
13:31Jacqueline Novak:So exactly. Interesting. So because it's so fascinating that I can see it. Right. And I'm like lucid. And what it is, is like, in my mind, I'm going like this. Oh my God. Like, I'm like, are you kidding? And I'm looking and I'm just like, it feels like my eyes are wide. Here's what's so bizarre. It feels like my eyes are wide awake. Like I'm opening them, like straining them open, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so I see that. And then, And in those moments, I have to say, I don't feel scared necessarily. It's more just like fascinated. It's not the scared feeling I get when I was looking at the hallway.
14:13Jacqueline Novak:It's like a different feeling. So then somehow I'm like fall asleep again. And I proceed to have nightmares, which again, very unusual for me. and I'm waking up throughout the night and I'm fucking praying for goddamn morning. Are the nightmares, are any of them? They're partially lucid, but they have nothing to do. You know, it's kind of more classic, like I'm at my parents' house, I'm downstairs, I hear voices outside, I'm scared. I go to open the door to investigate, but then I'm too scared. I open it and then I see darkness of the night and I'm like terrified. It's just like nothing. And then what else?
14:54Jacqueline Novak:I mean, kind of like, they won't sound interesting, but they're scary to me. And so then, okay, so I mean, that's it, so to speak. But then the next thing that happened, which is just completely coincidental, but was terrifying, is I, at one point, I think I smell cigarette smoke. And I'm like, oh, also a key detail is the hotel is silent. It's not the thing where I can hear footsteps above, next door. And that contributes to being scared because it's just like, there's, it feels like I'm alone. It feels like there's no – it's not like if you're in a high-rise.
Read the full transcript
15:26Kate Berlant:Did it seem like it was a well – like did it seem like the hotel was – There were people there. A lot of people there?
15:30Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. But I just kind of – in the night, I was like, it's so silent. I mean, you're just hearing nothing. So then – and then I think at one point I smell cigarette smoke, and I'm like, well, that's really weird.
15:41Kate Berlant:And not like you've suddenly become aware of like, oh, this must have been a smoking room once. No. More like a prominent smell.
15:49Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.
15:49Kate Berlant:Yeah.
15:50Jacqueline Novak:But that will become clear soon, I think.
15:53Kate Berlant:Oh, okay. Okay.
15:53Jacqueline Novak:So then, but then, so after all of this, again. Clear old factor.
15:58Kate Berlant:It's like, I forget what it is, but there's a nose one. Like, clear nosies.
16:02Jacqueline Novak:Well, I was like, what is that? But then. Yeah, sorry. Go on. So then after this horrible night, I am awoken at 5.30 a.m. to the most, to the loudest, scariest bang. My eyes open and I go, I'm like, are you kidding me? Could this get any? and I and my first thought is like oh the world's ending like or I was like that terrifying thing of like is that a natural disaster is that a bolt of lightning that's striking the hotel what is that turns out so then so then I then I look at the clock it's 5 30 a.m I'm like okay well at least like coming soon I proceed to fall asleep and wake up at 10 30 a.m so I slept in which I which I attribute to the agent nothing and fell back asleep fell back asleep and then you didn't investigate what was that bang no okay nope 5 30 10 30 I'm out like a light and again I attribute that to the agent not to you pack it um I wake up I go outside forest fire level smoke wildfire PTSD LA like I'm like what the fuck no one everyone's like yeah there's a hotel there's a fire nearby.
17:12Jacqueline Novak:Like, and it's so much so that I put on a mask. I have a mask. I'm like, I'm like, uh, guys. Fire active at that moment. Like when had the fire begun?
17:20Kate Berlant:I'm sorry, but I have a couple
17:21Jacqueline Novak:of thoughts. I'm not sure. Like in the earlier, in the earlier, oh, and guess what? The bang, I go to the front desk. I go, hi, I heard anyone here. They go, oh yeah, it was a meth lab exploding nearby.
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19:09Jacqueline Novak:And then, of course, I look up and if you look at like Bend, Oregon explosion, you can see people's ring cameras and stuff. like houses shaking, like a huge explosion. So I was like, okay, yeah. And a fire that night. Separate. And a fire that night. Yeah. So like creepy stuff. And I'm going, I'd like to leave this town and I'd like to leave this town fast. So I immediately, by the way, I start, I was supposed to leave the next day at like four. I get, I changed my flight to a 7am because I'm by the way, the whole day I'm feeling that night I have a show the whole day. I'm feeling this. and you could say, oh, well, it's from the night.
19:46Jacqueline Novak:I just feel eerie. I feel this buzzy energy. Here's what it feels like. It feels like I had way, way, way too much caffeine, but I hadn't. I had one coffee. I feel this buzzing, eerie, induced thing. I don't like it. And I'm like, I want to go. So I ended up switching rooms, which I thought because I was already like, I don't want to sleep in that room again.
20:10Kate Berlant:Oh, you changed, um, you changed it for the following day. Just an early flight. Okay.
20:17Jacqueline Novak:So now it's the day that I have my show. And so, and I noticed that morning the bedroom window wouldn't fully close. And that's why I was getting the smoke smell. Right. Like, so I go, Hey, my door, my window won't fully close. And I go, you know what? Can I just switch rooms? Cause I'm like, just do it, Kate. I don't need to be in there. Oh, by the way, you know what I think we should do on air right now? Maybe I should call and ask if they've ever had paranormal stuff. Yeah. Okay. But listen, I wanted to ask, but I was too scared. So I switched rooms. I go, thank you. You're too scared because you know you have another night there.
20:51Jacqueline Novak:Yes. I go. And that day I was like, how am I going to go to sleep in that room tonight? I'm going to be too scared. They go, yeah, we can switch rooms. I'm so happy to leave that room. I can't tell you. I'm packing so fast. It does not feel inconvenient. I'm like, get me the fuck out of here. They moved me to a room. It's in a different building as well, which is comically in the scary thing where it's as far as you can walk. We're basically up against the woods. It's like this building and then the final room. And that's my room. But I go in there. Identical layout.
21:21Kate Berlant:The room is at the threshold. Yeah, exactly.
21:25Jacqueline Novak:Identical layout.
21:26Kate Berlant:Your room is the doorway to the darkest of the woods. All right. No,
21:31Jacqueline Novak:but I was like, but then I'm comforted because there's so many cars in the driveway there that I'm like okay I'm surrounded by people like that's cool I proceed to have the worst show I've had in years which I actually can openly I can be like the sound it really was an issue with like the sound it's just an acoustic hell like I really felt for people and at one point in the show I had to acknowledge it and literally an audience member yelled like the sound is terrible like it was like classic festival show it was the tiniest and echoing in a tent or something thing where when I'm doing soundcheck, I was like, uh-oh.
22:04Jacqueline Novak:I don't know technically how to describe it to the guy, but at one point there was so much reverb. I go, whoa, is there a reverb effect? He's like, no. I'm like, by the way, there was. He was like, the room's big. I was like, the room's not big. It's 400 max seats. This is not like, oh, I'm at MSG.
22:22Kate Berlant:I remember when I started filming or taping my interactions during soundcheck on the road because they were so bad that, so shocking so doubting of you, the artist that you're a fool well it's a gender thing honey I mean it was incredible because you know you try to it's like when you try to recount later you're like, so I was like I'm going to have to start recording during this because later I want to be like listen to what showing Chris, listen to what he said to me Because you know you can't remember the details. Like I hate when I can't remember the details of like rudeness. No, you need the evidence.
23:04Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. So I'm just like, it's really hot in there. It's like, it's just a bad show. Oh, right. Yeah, the worst show.
23:12Kate Berlant:Right, right. Oh, weren't you saying like crossed arms, like angry in the front? There were like a few like, you know,
23:20Jacqueline Novak:older men in their probably late 50s, early 60s, arms crossed, completely stone-faced front row with their like disapproving wives. Oh, yeah. There were also sweet people in the crowd completely. God bless. And I felt really bad because I was like, oh, this just is not – it just ain't happening tonight. And I kind of had to just – it was –
23:43Kate Berlant:Festivals are challenging. Yeah, yeah.
23:47Jacqueline Novak:Let's say that.
23:48Kate Berlant:It's like there's something fundamentally not functional for comedy with the festival. I don't know. I don't know. So I'm not sure why, but yeah.
23:59Jacqueline Novak:It's interesting. So, but then I was really, really, I had a wonderful guy who was like my security guard driver guy. Yeah. Shout out to Ben. He was an angel. And I told him, I go, Ben, would you believe it? If I told you, like, I think I had like a ghost thing last night. And he was like, oh. And he's like, I don't really believe in ghosts. He's like, but he's like, Bend, Oregon is like an energy, like there's weird stuff here. And I was like, really? Let me start talking. point is I go back to my room and when you're already in a kind of scared state it's like something that would ordinarily mean nothing you're like so of course I look over so that day I had been in bed because I just felt weird I just was like I want to just get through this day it was just a weird feeling and there was a digital clock next to the bed which I swear I had noticed before and was normal.
24:49Jacqueline Novak:I get into my room. It's 10 PM. It is blinking digital 344, 344. And I'm like, why? No. Isn't that fucking eerie? So you had been, you got checked into your new room earlier is my point. There's a chance that you hadn't noticed that the clock had been blinking, but I fucking swear to God it was next to the bed and I was there all day. Yes. You glance at a bed, something's blinking. Your eye goes to it. Yes. Your eye goes to it. And I had been in that room all day I was in bed watching fucking TV I was like I would have seen it and I get in there 344 blinking on the clock I'm like fuck this I flip and by the way the clock I cannot unplug it it's like a thing where it's like I don't know how to describe it it's like fed through this solid oak thing that I can't move so I flip the digital clock exactly I flip the digital clock I'm like uh-uh face down I down another agent not to or maybe it was a Klonopin I can't remember And I was like, I'm going to bed.
25:49Jacqueline Novak:You can't remember. It sounds like it was a clown. I will not be scared. I was texting you. I was texting you. Oh, so this was huge. And I prayed. Obviously for the group. Oh, wait, I want to say this. The previous night of the scary haunting, I said out loud at some point, I do not want to communicate. I am closed to this. I said something like that out loud. Like, nope, go away. Don't want to do it. well the classic and I think listeners would remember respectfully I do not wish to see you that was you in London remember oh my god oh yeah it's very impressive okay go on go on so then I'm on the bed and I pray you're like Archangel Michael I'm like all right so I'm like Archangel Michael I call you like yes protect me no no right because this I just
26:34Kate Berlant:want to take it because when this was happening I was like this is special we have to talk about this, right? Because I feel like I was in bed or something or, you know, I don't know, like, because I guess I don't know what time it would have been for you. Who knows? Pointing, because I'm eight hours later, how was I in bed? Like, well, who knows? But it felt like night to me too, is the point. And, you know, you're like, I'm scared, whatever. And I'm just like, you know, you might have some gifts. We know this. I'm like, remember how connected you were at camp to remember you were like connecting with the christ light at eight oh yeah that wasn't camp honey that was on my knees praying the rosary no i know i thought like i thought it was at a camp that you like didn't know was like a religious camp or something oh yeah i did like accidentally go to a christian camp yeah yeah yeah but like so but but i was like quit in a pinch i'm just like yeah call on Michael okay because I've heard others say this and people you know like whose books I read and it's so cool when other people I think I was I don't know if I was talking about the stage or something like you know forgive me okay but like I was talking about someone and it could have been here but I don't think it was but just like when people refer to the archangels like like we'll just call on Michael you're like Michael like yeah yeah yeah you're like whoa right And then I was like, if I recall, I was like, what I've read, Archangel Michael has a sword and is like, of course, they all have light and carry light and whatever.
28:12Kate Berlant:But this protective sword whole kind of thing and just cutting through the darkness. And I don't know. And then I was like, and then, oh, and then I started Googling looking for like, you know, a strong sort of satisfying image of Michael to send to you. And I'm looking and there's always this thing like deviant art, like back in the day, like there's this very particular kind of spiritual fantasy, religious drawing that like comes up on the internet a lot. And it's always a little like too, you know, like the divine figures are a little too like sexy. Like it looks a little bit too fanfic, you know.
28:50Kate Berlant:But it's very specific. So I'm wading through those, trying to find something that feels a little more classical or archetypal, whatever. Anyway, and then right then, pops back at me one from you. You had also been searching. And you had sent me one of the ones I was about to send you. Yeah. I was like, yes. You're like, I'm right. You're like, I'm all right. The light will protect me. oh and then i also told you the other thing that i think i talked about in here but i'm not sure maybe not that my energy you told me which was close up you know your energy field bubble you know ask for support bubbling yourself up right and then close up your energy field like you're in a little velvet jewelry bag that has the tie ribbon at the top i love that pull it at the top pull it tight i love that cinches tight and your energy is i love that that's good contained that's
29:46Jacqueline Novak:good shit. I like that. It's good. The velvet. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I, I called upon Michael. It helped. And then I'm like, I take my pill. Good night, everyone. I'm out. Um, and then I had to wake up really early. I had to wake up. It was like one of those things where I had to wake up at five and eyes awake. Let's get the fuck out of here. I'm like grabbing my stuff. It's like, there's a great feeling when you just you're going home oh my god yeah get me out and then that's and i'm sorry to say it but i swear to god guys it was like the second i started descending into la i just felt better like like the energy that buzzy weird anxiety was just gone it was like and i was like well i'm never going back yeah like you're not gonna get me there it's It's too weird.
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32:05Kate Berlant:I just have to know. I know I Googled this at night, but Bend, Oregon.
32:10Jacqueline Novak:Should I call them an answer?
32:12Kate Berlant:Riverside Lodge. Oh, I'm writing Haunted. Let's just see if we can get that. Oh, I looked for it later because I was so scared. Kate, this is unbelievable.
32:23Jacqueline Novak:No, stop. What? Don't. Wait, wait, wait.
32:27Kate Berlant:Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. Wait, wait, wait. Did you think you saw a haunting report? I thought it said the most haunted place is the Riverside Lodge in Bend, Oregon. That would be amazing. Okay, but let me just see this. Haunted, haunted. Wait. Bend, Oregon. Riverside Lodge. Paranormal. Activity. I always think, because I talk about ghosts a lot. Sorry. on stage okay yeah yeah but like that like any hags in the audience are like this is so pathetic like Jacqueline obsessed with ghosts talking about like all this stuff you know what I mean and then like Kate sees them you know what I mean like Kate's out there seeing them and I'm like let's go do it together oh my god I mean I'd be the guy with the fucking equipment you know which I always you know best I'm convinced wait anyway I'll have to look later it's just I mean I wonder if now is the time now that distance has passed because remember I didn't want to talk about it on the podcast because it was too intense my hotel experience in Amsterdam I never talked about it here let's go no it's not it's not like I saw no apparitions etc right I remember reading this thing and like you know about gifts and everyone when they're training, you know, in these, they're trying to train spiritual, whatever, like everyone wants to be clairvoyant.
34:06Kate Berlant:Like that's very like, yeah, well, I can see them, you know, like, and it's very almost, you know, like all the students want to be clairvoyant or whatever.
34:15Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.
34:15Kate Berlant:And then like some of the students that are clairvoyant, like have like an ego about it. Okay. Sure. And it's dangerous because sometimes the ego like takes them. and then they fall out of the light, okay, or their gifts are revoked. Oh, shit. Point is, it's pretty special. You know, I do want you to develop the gifts, but stay humble to them, Kate. I'm getting a very, I got to put the phone down.
34:46Jacqueline Novak:It's really interrupting all sacred light. Oh, wow. Anything. Yeah.
34:52Kate Berlant:well they talk about that they talk oh really oh i thought you were saying in order to hear to have a clear channel or that is what you're saying i thought you're saying yeah but well you always you know so many of these mediums these books i i enjoy reading their autobiographies memoirs where they you know talk about free years you know the ways that they you know suffered with a with hideous anxiety for 30 years you know until they embraced their gifts okay yeah sweet like like they were fighting that shit down like they were they were with everything they got like feeling something and resisting it and i think i remember like and and you know there is i have no interest in you know that's a charlotte and i don't care it rings true You know what I mean?
35:50Kate Berlant:Like, I just, whatever. Like, that's a different conversation. But, like, anyway, it's pretty interesting.
35:59Jacqueline Novak:Wait, I want to hear about Amsterdam. But is it fun or not fun to call the Riverside Lodge and ask if they're there? Oh, of course it's fun. And by the way, it's like I sent a picture, and I'll post it on the pod. I sent you a photo of where I was staying. Like, the exterior looks scary. Okay. Again, no complaints about this hotel whatsoever.
36:18Kate Berlant:Say you're writing about it.
36:19Jacqueline Novak:I just wanted to sound legitimate. No, I'm going to just say this is so, I'm just going to be completely honest.
36:24Kate Berlant:All right, fine. For group sales and marketing inquiries, press two.
36:28Jacqueline Novak:For new room reservations, press three. For existing room reservations, press four. For front desk and accounting, press five. Front desk? I think so. Yeah.
36:38Kate Berlant:Please hold on while I try that extension. This is Riverhouse Lodge front desk. How can I help you?
36:44Jacqueline Novak:Hi, how are you? I have an unusual question for you. I stayed with you guys a couple weeks ago. I had a great stay for a couple nights. This is so funny to say, but have you guys, do you have anyone who's ever talked about like ghosts or anything at your place at the hotel?
37:01Kate Berlant:You know, I've only been here for three months, but no, I have not heard anything about that.
37:05Jacqueline Novak:In three months. Okay. Ask if like his colleagues, ask his colleagues. Well, it's funny because like, and I'm not like a ghost person. Like you don't know me obviously, but I swear I'm not someone who's, But yeah, I had like a really, I actually switched rooms. I had a great time at the hotel, but I actually switched rooms because I had a really great experience in one of the rooms. Oh, okay. And I was just curious. I was like, oh, what if it's a thing where numerous people are like, yeah, I've seen a ghost there or something.
37:33Kate Berlant:Particularly with like Bend, Oregon being like a vortex. No, I haven't. I mean, I remember, I actually remember, like, coming in and, like, starting, and some areas that they showed me, like, they gave me two around the hotel, and they had said a couple things. Like, people are creeped out in this one area or yada yada.
37:54Jacqueline Novak:No way. Check which, if it was the area. Okay, because I was in, I think I was in, I was in, like, 21, 22. Or was it? Okay. I don't know, because I actually moved, like, the entire, they moved me to a totally different building. I didn't tell them that I was freaked out because it's like so, you know, I didn't want to be like, I think there's a ghost in that room. So I just moved rooms. But that's interesting. People said that. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Well, thank you for that.
38:24Kate Berlant:Yeah. If you don't mind me asking, do you remember what room you were in?
38:27Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. I think it was, you know, I took a picture of the key. I think it was 20. It was either 21, 22 or 22, 21. Wait, I can tell you because I specifically took a picture of the... You could tell him your name. You could, I mean, I could give you my name. You could look up on our reservation, but... Oh, here we go. Sure. 2122.
38:50Kate Berlant:2122? Okay. I was just making note of that.
38:54Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, 2122. It's like right by, it was right by a stairway too. Like it was like a room that was kind of by a staircase.
39:02Kate Berlant:Yeah. Okay. It was a pretty big room. Yeah.
39:12Kate Berlant:Ask if that building has history.
39:14Jacqueline Novak:Is it old? Is the hotel old?
39:20Kate Berlant:Yeah, it is pretty old. I believe it's around like 70 years old.
39:24Jacqueline Novak:Okay. Yeah. Weird. Okay. Yeah. Well.
39:30Kate Berlant:Yeah, that is interesting. What had happened?
39:32Jacqueline Novak:well I just like you know I'm not someone I don't get I'm not like a nightmare person I never get nightmares but it was like I woke up with this really weird nightmare and a really specific image in my head of people and then the motion there's like a motion light in the room by the bathroom area and I woke up out of this nightmare and the motion light went off like a few seconds later and um yeah just weird like I just I had these like kind of weird visions and I just felt really weird like in my body like i just really felt and i travel alone constantly for work so i'm you know i'm in hotels all the time alone this never happens to me so it was like a very weird
40:11Kate Berlant:thing wow okay yeah i would have i would have switched rooms too yeah yeah um but the hotel
40:19Jacqueline Novak:was great particularly loved the gym beautiful it was great okay well have a good day thanks yeah of course you as well bye love it by the way yeah i walk around they go people get creeped out in this area hello i know he dropped that i think he wanted to see how long months he wanted three months yeah yeah yeah like i think he had built a little more trust like he wasn't just
40:44Kate Berlant:going to immediately go like you know the first questions like this woman's on the phone and go yeah when we come here you know this happens and then someone's like types it up i'm also imagining like what if there's someone in bend what if there's a hag in bend oregon and they're like, I love, well, I'm like, and they're like, that guy was great. Okay. And like, maybe it sparks a love connection just like on Sleepless in Seattle. Yeah. Cause I was like, that is cool. Right? I know. I wonder what you're picturing. It's like, but you're like, that is masculinity that's not afraid. You know what I mean?
41:18Kate Berlant:Well, yeah, there it is. It's like, it's like, yeah, you can be open and cool. Completely. Like, it's a confident masculinity.
41:30Jacqueline Novak:The River House Lodge, there are hags in Bend. I met them, sweetie. Oh, yeah, so River House. Maybe you said that the whole time. Sorry, no, I think I did say Riverside by accident.
41:40Kate Berlant:There's a run on the bank that is his heart, okay? Like right now, like hags are flying into the hotel.
41:49Jacqueline Novak:To meet him? Yeah. Oh, my God. But yeah, well, that's my Bend, Oregon story. Wow.
42:02Kate Berlant:Well, should I tell you about Amsterdam now? Yes.
42:10You know, I'm always on the lookout, right?
42:15Jacqueline Novak:But wait, set the stage. This is recently for a few nights, right?
42:19Kate Berlant:Not that recently. I mean, this was in like March, whatever my same suitcase, right? You know, like still part of this long trip, like my green blazer.
42:35Kate Berlant:And it was like a couple nights in Amsterdam and it was between a couple shows where I feel like I was there like four nights or something. It was a bit longer and I decided, all right, well, I'll stay in Amsterdam. That could be interesting. I've never been there. Were you alone? Yeah. Yeah. And so do you remember the whole, a brass knob can't save you? That was my early review of Hoxton or Portland or Seattle or something. Yeah. Because it was sort of, you know, you're like, the design is correct in this way, right? You're like, they know what I need. They're hip, right? They're going to care about the same things I care about.
43:15But if you dig into their literature, they're kind of into this, you know, almost European hostile mentality.
43:25Kate Berlant:Like, there's stuff in their literature. Like, we want people to socialize, like, downstairs. You know, we want our bar and our restaurant to be for the community, okay? Not just the hotel guests, right? People to connect. Like, we want it to feel like not a hotel restaurant, but just a local cool place, right? And this is basically their defense of not having, like, snacks in the room, okay, or room service. Yeah, always. We want you to have to come downstairs bleary-eyed in the morning.
43:54Jacqueline Novak:Wait, Jacqueline, I remember this is the Nazi place.
43:59Kate Berlant:Well, and even more than that, it had a lot of things, right? So it was like, I mean, yes, including that. So it was like, but I go to the hockstown. I'm pretty beat on this trip. And I think this really put me over. But I get there. Oh, so I'm really struggling with decisions about the hotel. And it seems like there's all these fabulous hotels, but they're pretty expensive. These Amsterdam Canal looking like, oh, the canal houses or whatever. These things, surely that's where I want to stay. But indecision cost, I was like, fuck it, I'm going to the Hoxton. Okay. And they're like, this is the new Hoxton by the river.
44:45Kate Berlant:Okay. The other one was sold out, whatever. Another river. Yes. Energy flows right across them. So I just sat in the Hoxton. I show up. It is, you know, a massive, you know, rectangular, just that kind of building, like a school, you know, has that look. go in and they've, they've retained the kind of like nine, like early 1900s sort of like swimming, like local, like public swimming pool kind of tiling. It's very school tiling, very public pool, like swimming pool. Like it's just, I don't know, that's, that's the vibe. And I go in and I go, okay, like, so I got, I don't know about this. And I go like, what happens if like, After night, I wanted to leave because I'm here for five nights.
45:39Kate Berlant:And they're like, oh. And then they use a lot of words to just say, you absolutely get nothing back. Oh, my God. You know what I mean? Yeah, shit. Really? Yeah, I'm like, oh, okay. I've made my bed. So I guess I'll be staying here then. Right? It was like. No 24-hour, 48 hours? It was shockingly. I remember being like, I'm fucked, right? Like, okay. And I don't remember what threw me at first when I got there, but they give you, they hand you like, like a bottle of water or something at the desk. And this is not like as a kindness. It's like, that's the water you'll be drinking all night. Okay.
46:21Kate Berlant:So I know I head up, I go, um, and I go, Whoa, it is kind of gorgeous. I mean, relatively it may not gorgeous but it's it's that it's the brass knob it's the um i think wood floors which as you know i mean i really like these days in hotel and so you go wood floors and i mean it is the classic performance velvet and which was my issue at that same hoxton way back when when you come in it's sort of the design the colors it's all very like you know the mustard and the navy and the warm wood and the brass knobs and then, you know, like stain on the performance velvet couch, right? That's just like central.
47:04Kate Berlant:And it's this weird thing where you're kind of like, so I'm the asshole? You know what I mean? Like, oh, I guess for it to be left like this means the hotel stands behind it, right? In a way. And it's the kind of thing where you're like, this would come off with, you know, and it always looks like semen, right?
47:22Jacqueline Novak:What is it? It's a BJ stain. And somebody was sitting on the couch getting a BJ.
47:29Kate Berlant:And, you know, it's just this, okay. You know, it's just like, right. It's just, it's just, and I get grossed out and whatever, but like they're, they're really, I got to say the Hoxton's really pushing it like, like, uh, they're really pushing a lifestyle. They've got these, you know, they're really into calling cause they have really small rooms. They like own it. You You know, they're like, you can stay in the box, the super cozy, the little bit bigger. You know, they're doing a whole, you know, you can sign up for their club, whatever. So beyond no coffee in the room, you know, like, and I'm looking around, I'm pretty, I'm almost positive no room service ever.
48:11Kate Berlant:Okay. So I'm just like, this is a nightmare. I'm dying of thirst. I go down in the night and they're like, you know, we'll find some water for you. Like, we'll bring it up. Oh, no. I remember like calling down like, do you have it? Oh, because I think I was sick. I think I had a cold. Anyway, it doesn't matter. And I'm like, do you have some tea? Do you have some tea? Okay. Oh, no. I'm like, I just love like some tea with honey, whatever. Up they come and hand me a tea bag. Oh, yeah. You know, hot water thing in the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So my mood, you know, my mood tanked. I was just not not in a great place there.
48:55Kate Berlant:But I started to think and I don't usually think this, that it had something to do with the energy of the hotel. So I come back. Like the next night or something, I just had to go on a walk or whatever. And I come back and I go to my room and the, you know, the lock and the, you know, we've all seen a key not work, right? A digital key not work. Sure. Okay. But it's on this permanent red. That's not the, oh, it's blinking red. Like your key doesn't work anymore. It's on this permanent red. I have to go down. They come up. They can't fix it. Okay. The door is fundamentally locked now. Locked, closed.
49:38Kate Berlant:Yeah, and so they have to get this other guy to come up and remove the lock from the door, the electronic one, remove it, revealing the true key, the old-fashioned key, and use that to get in. And then fix and reapply the electric lock. And this takes like 25 minutes, right? Oh, my God. And there's just something, okay? Because I was telling funny about that. And they go, well, the battery was drained from the electric lock. Okay. Okay. Which never happens. How often do you think that happens? Like in a hotel.
50:21Jacqueline Novak:How often do they switch in out the, yeah. Right. Okay.
50:23Kate Berlant:It's like never, you know. Unheard of. It's like, and I mean, what do spirits love to do? That's exactly what they love to do. Honestly, drain batteries. It's like, you know. And so I'm like, interesting. and then I think I say to the woman like what's the history of this place or something right the woman that was sort of hanging out with me while waiting for the guy and she's like oh it's uh well it's it's interesting or something and I'm like what kind of interesting and then like oh Nazi or like you know like okay then I start googling you know in bed right start googling around and it's like the history of the place is just bad from nearly the time when it was built except for like right when it was built and even when it was built in like i forget now i used to know you know it was 1903 or 1910 or whatever 1929 i'm not sure okay but yeah yeah it's like one of these things where there was a brief moment of of potential like hope and glory you know like almost like the titanic or something and then it all turns because it was described as nearly like it sounds creepy in the first place like a sanitization hotel okay so you're like what and it's like yeah that's why like the communal showers in the basement or whatever no okay and you're like it was this idea like back then if you were going to travel europe you had to go to or get on a boat like a big cruise ship or whatever you know or whatever they called them then like you would have to go to these hotels stay there for several days and basically make sure you're not diseased before you get on a boat so they were in some ways attached to almost like luxury travel but this very sort of disturbing so so there were like these articles about when the hotel opened like recently that that they're like imagine it's 19 whatever you are going on a fancy trip like you step up into the whatever it used to be called i forget now you know like and so it's like they were actually utilizing the like let's turn to history to like get a vibe for the place you're staying and i was like that's dangerous because even if you've got you want to open that door yeah exactly so like it's like go go eco right like be like we have a we have a great building here we're not gonna tear it down just to put up a new one you know what i mean like like whatever like go there's so many other angles point is it it i'm reading about it reading about it and it's It's like, it's a whole series of things.
52:56Kate Berlant:First, it's like, oh, well, we'll, we'll take these Jews in that are, you know, like, it's, it's pretty confusing. But like, for a second, it seems like, oh, we're housing them. Then it seems like, oh, actually, we're keeping them in here and they can't leave. And then, and then it's like becomes a place where the ally, you know, the members of the resistance get like rounded up and taken there and tortured. Like, whatever, that ends. And then it becomes a goddamn juvenile prison. So the rooms, okay. Just the darkest shit on top of the darkest shit. Are, like, angry boys, you know, like, locked in these rooms.
53:37And so I'm like, of course they're, like, fucking with the locks.
53:42Kate Berlant:Yeah, of course. You know? Of course. And I remember saying to the guy, I'm like, I just, you know, like, can I get out? Like, is there a way that this could lock me in? You know, if it fails again.
53:54Jacqueline Novak:Really good question. Yeah.
53:55Kate Berlant:You know, and we like worked it out. So I felt somewhat whatever. But it set off, you know, continue like more and more reading about it. Like, you know, obsessively hunting for like literature and photos about it, you know, like finding one and being like, that is the haul. And then I took a lot of footage, actually, like kind of in this, on these show you later sort of thing. And in the morning when I finally was going to leave and, you know, nary a plaque. Okay. Like there was no. Of course. And it's just like, just do a plaque and say, you know. Let the spirits rest. Be like, well, lots of buildings in Europe.
54:37Kate Berlant:Amsterdam. Have tough histories, okay? Like, we choose to, you know, take an old building and finally bring light and joy to it through creating a hotel. With no room service. Right, yeah. So it's like, that's all you got to do. So then I became fixated on writing a letter about how they need to have a plaque, but whatever. And I composed that classic, compose the letter, don't send, right? Get back to my life. So the morning that I'm leaving, in the room, I said a few words. Yeah. Okay. Just like, and I felt compelled. And it wasn't like I was doing it just, I don't know. It was real. I don't know.
55:24Kate Berlant:I just was like basically I was just like I'm sorry for what happened here you know and yeah and if you you know stay you stay and if you leave you leave you know like I'm not like going to do this like ego game of like I'm going to encourage you to go towards the light you know like do you know what I mean like I'm going to release them you know it's just sort of like whatever I said a lot of words not that many I said some things i it feels like false to even try to recreate it because it was sort of serious you know yeah and then i went outside i called an uber i took my things downstairs when i got outside on the street and the uber was on its way a couple minutes or whatever i looked up at the building and i broke down sobbing weeping oh my god oh my god and it felt like like all these people who had suffered were in the building and they can't really leave and i'm leaving right i get to leave and be out of the energy right right and it was and i just it didn't feel like i was telling myself a a story you know what i mean yeah you Yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:44Kate Berlant:It was wild. Wow, wow. Cool. And I was like, you know. We honored them. Maybe in, you know, you walk around, you know, Europe, like, I don't know, like, maybe you really got to tie that velvet bag, like, a little tighter. Tight at the top. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, we're not prepared for, like, that many years of history or something. I don't know. But it was a hotel, you know, a big building, whatever, these places. A lot of people go through them. I don't know. It's the unspoken part of being a solo traveler. You felt it, though. You tapped in. So I thought that was interesting. And I always hold the idea that, you know, or I was just, you know, or I just was depleted and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
57:36Jacqueline Novak:Well, by the way, one thing that's funny, I want to make a comment on the nature of ghost stories. Because I was texting with my friend who's a very like kind of stoic, like not stoic, but just like, you know, a British man who like doesn't, he's not in the world of the mystical ghosts, whatever. But I was compelled to tell him, I was like, oh, I just had this like, you know, the thing I was telling him about the thing that happened in Bend. And I was like, and I felt kind of embarrassed, like knowing him, knowing how he would, how it sound, you know? And I was like, whatever. Like, and then he said something, what did he say?
58:11Jacqueline Novak:He was like, no, he was like, what's annoying is when people tell a ghost story and they tell it without fear, like just factual. So I'm there, a person appears. Okay. There's a ghost there. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, I was scared. It wasn't like, so I wake up, I'm seeing the visions, right? So I look over, you know, the motion sector goes off. off so there's spirit there and this is his issue with it yeah no like he oh like want to see what he said it's like how it's just annoying when people tell those those what's annoying is when people tell a ghost story as if they're just recounting like the cold facts of what happened
58:49Kate Berlant:see i but this is funny gay i have a different interpretation oh no so here's here's what he
58:54Jacqueline Novak:said he said i don't mind ghost stories if the teller is and was terrified what i don't like is the teller being matter of fact and laid back. Hysterical. Yeah.
59:05Kate Berlant:That's so funny.
59:06Jacqueline Novak:Compensatively laid back. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I was like, that's funny. And by the way, much like a ghost story and much like a podcast has to end. We have to wrap up. We do. We're three minutes over. no it's great that was that was great and um well uh you know i don't want any more i'm going to stay in a hotel i don't want them there so don't be there please gotta be careful here in london
59:36Kate Berlant:ghost who listens to the podcast oh my god please don't yeah around yeah you gotta just you gotta get a hat like um lisa williams i think on her show i told you this she had a little hat she put on at night. It was like, no, you're kidding. It's closed now, folks. Like business is closed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I wouldn't recommend it probably for you, but Conjuring last rights came out. We went and. Oh God. I'm too scared. Fucking rocked.
1:00:05Jacqueline Novak:That's awesome though. I mean, I'm happy for you. Fucking rocked.
1:00:08Kate Berlant:And I wept during the, like not the credits, but the, or there's the title. How many Conjurings are there? I forget because it's like I'm going to post my conjuring joke as Jack has famously
1:00:21Jacqueline Novak:the conjuring universe is just the universe what are you doing
1:00:25Kate Berlant:I'm literally going to post it because I've been doing it in honor of final rights or last rights I was going to post it me doing it on stage I chuckle when people say the conjuring universe because of course it is but our own universe if you recognize the very real work of demonologists Ed and Lorraine Warren. But yeah, it was like these great slides about them and their contribution. And it was silent. And I was like, tears streaming down my face.
1:00:57Jacqueline Novak:Oh my God.
1:00:58Kate Berlant:Just moved by sort of the tale of the Warrens. And Vera Farmiga, she's good. She's fucking good. She's scary. They're great. Anyway, I'll tell you more about it eventually. Okay. All right. Love you. Love you. Love you. All right. All right. Talk soon.
1:01:44you
From the publisher
Motion light at ankle height gives way to a paranormal event. Praying for morning, staring at the doorway to the darkness of the woods. Deviant spiritual art on the internet. Masculinity that’s not afraid. Another river, energy flows across them. Spirits love to drain batteries, so we tie the velvet bag a little tighter.
Producer: Annie Bernstein
Editor: Kati Skelton
Music: Naomi McPherson
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