Episode 049: “Animatronics Are Back”

8:06Jacqueline Novak:Across from the Scientology building, basically. Shout out to Found Oyster. but I got something there that I loved and I'm back on it and I want them to send more, which is the recess, like relaxing sodas. Oh, really? Yeah. And I, and I liked them.

8:26Kate Berlant:Those lived in my, in my fridge for a while. And I, I, I think I enjoyed it, but I, I don't know what it just didn't take as a habit. I really like tropical bliss as a flavor,

8:37Jacqueline Novak:but I want, and I just paid out of pocket. I bought some more cause I was like, this is a nice little, it gave me a little something, a little relaxation. It's not too sweet.

8:45Kate Berlant:What's in them again? What's the active ingredient? It's not CBD.

8:47Jacqueline Novak:I'm not really sure.

8:48Kate Berlant:Right. But it's, yeah, it's sort of, I've been taking a magnesium supplement. You'll be pleased to hear. Which kind?

8:58Jacqueline Novak:Glycinate?

8:58Kate Berlant:You know, I think so. Yeah, it must be. Yeah, not citrate. I'm not taking, that's the laxative, right?

9:08Jacqueline Novak:magnesium oxide is the what'll blow your cornhole so to speak like light open

9:15Kate Berlant:it's not that but that that's that's that's the word in my head and then i had lunch finally at the vegan restaurant of nodding hill known as holy carrot it rocked hey it was so delicious oh my god and there are no waste in there so they're like this this little like this dressing whatever is made from the rind of the watermelon that you ate earlier or whatever you know and they were lovely i had a spritz i said i'll have a lunchtime spritz love and and then i had um a white bean spread with a little puff of this kind of strange bread And then I had figs with smoked tofu and an array of pickles and then a shakshuka with a tofu in there.

10:09Kate Berlant:Oh, my God. Sorry to double up on tofu in the same menu description, but it can happen out of choice. There were plenty of other options. Certainly. Chris had an artichoke burger. Wow. The kind of dill dressing. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it was the sort of sanctuary type restaurant with the temple-like decor, which it's always hard to -

10:34Jacqueline Novak:Caravan of Dreams. Did you ever go there in the East Village? Wait a second. That's one of my first vegan restaurant experiences. Wait, I can picture that. Caravan of Dreams. And by the way, it sounds like what it looked like. And I remember - Yeah. And it was expensive. I remember having like, it was good. Having some hot vegan entrees.

10:51Kate Berlant:It had a lot of - That look. Like a decor. Yeah. Or no, stark. No, no, decor. Okay. Yeah, no, this is the stark approach. I do think we're waiting for something in the middle, decor wise, right? Yeah. With a vegan restaurant.

11:09Jacqueline Novak:Well, there was a beautiful, shout out, so sad, Elf and Echo Park, which was open for a long time. Beautiful restaurant, unbelievably delicious. Vegan, vegetarian, but mostly vegan, I'd say. god damn it got it exactly right there was a magical earth feeling but it was really tasteful

11:27Kate Berlant:and beautiful and it's gone nothing can survive this hell that we live in also at besties i picked

11:36Jacqueline Novak:up some drum roll plant-based donuts which i would love them to send it by the palette really yeah

11:44Kate Berlant:remember when you thought a palette was a lot smaller than it is yeah that was like 12 by 18 it's actually quite huge it's like the things that people make like couches out of yeah like diy huge four casters under a pallet I I had um I just got back from

12:03Jacqueline Novak:New York and I had the thing of like why am I leaving I felt so sad to leave New York I had a euphoric in New York trip the Bowery Hotel of course pure heaven and had one of the best meals I've ever had at Le Vudor, which I'm going back to in a month. What is that? This unbelievably gorgeous, you won't be able to eat a thing there. It's a French restaurant. It's absolutely gorgeous. And who sits down next to me? Fran Lebowitz. Oh my God. No, I was like, yeah, I'm in the right place. It was divine meal, top to bottom, beautiful cocktails. Right next to you?

12:44Kate Berlant:So were you performing the entire? So I froze when she came in.

12:48Jacqueline Novak:It was a thing where we're up against a wall. So like we're seated on the same banquette. Yeah, I can see it.

12:53Kate Berlant:And I was like. There's no way you weren't waiting to be discovered.

12:57Jacqueline Novak:Well, for the first, my friend was like, you've changed. Because for the first, I would say like five minutes, I was posing. Like I felt myself like she's here. Like I just, but then it dropped because it was also the restaurant's so fabulous. It's like, it's not for kids.

13:14Kate Berlant:Serious restaurant, you know?

13:15Jacqueline Novak:They eventually, you know, a hip young table probably of 25-year-olds eventually came right from Dime Square to Le Vudor, but it was mostly exquisite-looking people over 50.

13:29Kate Berlant:With style, baby, style. Anyway, it's already the Toast to the Tan.

13:35Jacqueline Novak:It's the Frenchette people, and it was just exquisite, but I can't wait to go back. I was so overwhelmed by the poetry of the experience that I found one of the owners on Instagram and DMed him personally to tell him how incredible the experience was.

13:49Kate Berlant:Well, did you try to get some digits? Did you try to lock in secret res? Let's just say I think I've locked in. Did you get anything? Were you hoping for some, you know, a big thing? I'll just say this. I got what I wanted.

14:01Jacqueline Novak:Got what I wanted.

14:02Kate Berlant:Yeah.

14:02Jacqueline Novak:And I will be back.

14:05Kate Berlant:God. Keeping up with New York restaurant scene. impossible I mean do you I mean I feel like you try right I mean you go what's who's top dog

14:20Jacqueline Novak:yeah yeah I like to know and like my mom maybe she doesn't anymore but she used to get time out like New York magazine sent like she's very she'll be like new restaurants in New York she'll like send just as like a fun but like has a gossip rag you've been primed the new restaurants but the thing happened which we've talked about on the podcast before of just leaving wanting to take the magic of the city home like I was like well I lived in New York for 10 years so it's in me but I was like I need to stretch you repeat that phrase over and over to yourself on the way to the airport I lived here for 10 years I lived here for 10 years well I have to say that when I checked into the hotel yeah I've heard you say it to people so

14:58Kate Berlant:many times. I've heard you say it to almost like, yeah, yeah. You do it. You do that thing where you bring your teeth out. Like, like, like you'll do it to a waiter. You do it like, oh, okay. I live in your 10 years, you know? I live 10 years. So. Yeah. Yeah. The teeth come out.

15:14Jacqueline Novak:I really felt it. And I felt, and I was just, it, it birthed me. I was reborn and it was, and just to be at the Bowery exquisite service to get my little, I was doing breakfast room service. I went, fuck it. I went all, all out. And I got, yeah, I, at one point I had the unbelievable experience of, there was some stuff with moving my room around. I would manage to secure a free upgrade to a king. And. Really? Yeah. And. Based on what? I don't know. Oh.

15:50Kate Berlant:I thought it was like you were like, like a complaint or something. No, God, no.

15:55Jacqueline Novak:It was like a thing where I had to move rooms because of it. It's too complicated and boring, but it was the thing where like, actually, that room is no longer available, so we're going to put you in the gorgeous room, big bathtub. I'm in there jerking off. Really? Yeah. I actually didn't jerk off.

16:11Kate Berlant:Wait, you took a bath? Every day. You took a bath? Oh, yeah. Every day.

16:17Jacqueline Novak:Oh, yeah. If I've got a good bathtub, I'm in there at least once a day. Sometimes I was in there twice a day. Morning bath is one of my favorite things.

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16:51Jacqueline Novak:A current item that I'm particularly obsessed with is their body sunscreen. It's so luxurious and creamy and feels hydrating, but of course offers so much SPF protection and peptides.

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17:36um sometimes there's a piece to um uh like the cab driver said something that suggested he

17:44Kate Berlant:thought we weren't from new york when we were taking a cab from jfk to the bowery and sometimes there's a piece in just letting him have it totally like like going like i don't need to say yes totally the 10 years in new york thing like yeah just just because you know it's like like in this case it was like it was like the bowery hotel you know yeah you know where that is or do you want a direct address kind of thing and then it launched into a whole the bowery like the bowery is actually a street here like so there could be a lot of bowery hotels or like There's only one, sweetheart.

18:21Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, totally. Oh, my God, of course. And just let it go. Yeah, yeah, totally.

18:27Kate Berlant:Yeah, yeah, just let it go. But yeah, just being like, it's funny because it actually just is very simple. You go, well, what if today we were those people? It's this weird identification with the self that we're a stranger to him, yet we need him to know. Yeah, yeah. Like, why? Get over it. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's weird, almost, like fleeting identity, that we require it, even in fleeting scenarios. I guess some people don't, and that's why they openly lie all the time about who they are. Yeah. I mean, you know, like, they're just like, let it fly off the tongue or whatever. I guess you've done that, right?

19:08Kate Berlant:You've been like, I'm a pilot or something. Not that, but. No, I once was like, I'm a teacher. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm going to start saying I'm an agent.

19:18Jacqueline Novak:someone asked me what I do I'm an agent who do you rep Kaperlant Kaperlant

19:24Kate Berlant:they go you know never heard of her huge fan well she's been up and coming I uh I just uh

19:32Jacqueline Novak:sorry my who cares but my dream it's so funny just now I remember to my dream Sabrina Carpenter was a fan that was huge I was backstage at her show and and I was one of the only people backstage i was like oh my god sorry like and she's like no no i'm a fan i'm a fan oh my god she had egg whites in a carton she had egg whites in a carton like oh like uh which i noticed at the grocery store and i see people doing yeah and i was like oh that's that's what

20:02Kate Berlant:she's doing that's the stuff yeah well you would be fixated on how she's getting her protein i would be you'd be like like that like like you're learning a hack like in your dream you're learning a health rumor yeah yeah I dreamt last night that I was back at or going to college or I was going to I was going to get some kind of degree now I was going to college for four years like and I was on campus and I was like I can still basically do everything and that I'm doing right now and you know get these degrees and And it'll be really stimulating. And I was trying to get my hands on the, you know, course manual, the thing that describes all the courses, and decide what path I was going to take and whether I was going to go.

20:53Kate Berlant:I was like, I wanted to take all these film classes. But then I was like, oh, wait. It was absolutely wonderful, this feeling.

21:01Jacqueline Novak:Back in school, yeah. Of just, you know, I could do anything.

21:05Kate Berlant:And I have this occasionally. It's like, you know, yeah, just something about the courses, the endless interesting courses and choosing and brief wondering, am I too late? You know, like, has everyone signed up for the classes already? I get those. Yeah,

21:25Jacqueline Novak:totally.

21:25Kate Berlant:But trying to get my hands on that book.

21:27Jacqueline Novak:Well, I'm back.

21:28Kate Berlant:Oh, God. And then a teacher from high school was there. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It sounds like nothing. I'm back in dream work really yeah I'm back

21:41Jacqueline Novak:I'm like again goodbye phone hello book of symbols hello I'm reading back in my you know Robert Johnson act of imagination I have to get back in I mean if you're not using

21:51Kate Berlant:the dream hours consciously what are you even doing I don't know why even go to sleep so today I am I am looking at a little bouquet of chamomile and freesia or something that that's sounding a little but that could be right anyway yeah little bouquet from the corner flower shop um and it's one of the stands on portobello mark at portobello market whatever and i was sitting having a coffee from what's the place i like, um, planet, no, the coffee plant. And I'm sitting there and I'm watching a scene unfold at this plant stand, right? Flower shop stand. And it's a woman comes up and she's in a coat and her hair's kind of done and she's got sunglasses on and some makeup and she's, she comes in under the tent.

22:50So she's really in the space of this, um you know proprietor right and she takes a bouquet of roses you know and holds them up

23:03Kate Berlant:and starts to take a selfie like with her face close to the roses right yeah and you're seeing this and you're just like and then the proprietor is like excuse me are you gonna buy those you know

23:16Jacqueline Novak:Oh, damn.

23:18Kate Berlant:Like, if you're not going to buy those, don't touch. Oh, uh-huh. Like, because, yeah, I mean, first of all, you don't need to pick up a bouquet to know whether or not you want to buy it. Let's get real. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not even a bouquet. I mean, a bouquet, arguably, you might, to pick it up and turn it around and go, did they make the back? I mean, it's 12 roses. Right. It's pretty straightforward, right?

23:38Jacqueline Novak:Oh, wow. Okay, I'm fascinated. Okay.

23:40Kate Berlant:So I'm watching this. She's like, if you're not going to buy it, and the woman sort of, like, doesn't really say anything. kind of stuffs them back.

23:47Jacqueline Novak:How old is this woman, roughly?

23:51Kate Berlant:The patron? Yeah. 20s? Young? No, like at least 36.

23:58Jacqueline Novak:Oh, shit. Yeah, because if it's like a younger girl, you know, you're kind of like, all right, these kids.

24:04Kate Berlant:Yeah. No, no. This was like, that's what was sort of - Wait, what'd she say?

24:08Jacqueline Novak:What'd she say? Doesn't respond?

24:11Kate Berlant:Doesn't respond with any words, then sort of puts it down, then sort of says, I was like, how much is that about some other bouquet or some other thing?

24:17Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. And then, like, walks away.

24:20Kate Berlant:And then there was a second little vulture, okay, with a man. And she was sort of circling the place, kind of hearing this whole interaction. Oh. But then still trying to get pictures sort of with the flowers behind her. Now, when I walked past the little Notting Hill, you know, flower shop, right? like this store on a corner that is just, you know, totally enchanting and the sign is very visible. Walking by outside a store, I took a photo of myself like, oh, this is kind of like a Notting Hill memory. Like not a big fucking deal, but just like, look, this is when I'm in Notting Hill. It's not, I'm not like to me to that, like, and I'm not even posting that, but if I were, at least I'm promoting a business.

25:11Kate Berlant:You know what I mean? I'm promoting a business. So this is just like, let me just take a really tight selfie with the roses that you secured, lady, and brought here. And so this other one sort of surreptitiously gets her photos and I'm watching and I'm getting real steamed. I'm shaking my head. I'm looking around to see if anyone else is pissed right and i get up and i go you know i gotta be i finished my coffee okay but i get up i walk over i go hi okay oh okay and i go um i go i wanted to feel her out because i oh because i saw her replacing the i saw her explaining sort of to the air slash other people after like like they shove them back in they take them out and then they shove them back in you know they treat And then I see her re-wrapping one of the Rose bouquets.

26:03Kate Berlant:You know what I mean? It breaks my heart.

26:04Jacqueline Novak:That's not cool. You can't shove them back in.

26:07Kate Berlant:It's so vile.

26:08Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

26:10Kate Berlant:So I go over and I'm like, it's really annoying how people take pictures. Now, I'm just trying to ease my way in because, as I said to her next, I've got ideas.

26:20Jacqueline Novak:Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

26:23Kate Berlant:Yeah, yeah. Okay. I cannot fucking resist. So I go, first of all, I'm like, charge for the photos, okay?

26:33Jacqueline Novak:I was like, make it a thing, right? Or just hang the sign, no photos. Sure, but, you know, I'm trying to increase the business, right?

26:42Kate Berlant:I'm trying to take the desire, right, so the people want them. It's a freaking tourist, you know, whatever. So get this, right? So I'm going like, first I sort of say that. That's sort of a joke to get a sense for. What does she say? She's into it? There's a way to, there is a way to do that. But, you know, she kind of jumped in like, like, I know I should charge. Right. And she's like, I don't mind them taking the photo if they ask. Okay. She's like, they ask. I go, thank you for asking, you know, and whatever. But it's the way they shove it back in. It's the way they shove it back in. So she's not even doing the whole, like, you know, technically having a problem with, with it, which I still, I still think it's vulgar.

27:21Jacqueline Novak:to walk under the tent, take the thing out of its bucket. It's disgusting.

27:31Kate Berlant:So anyway, so I'm like, a couple ideas. I'm like, first of all, more signs. I go, everyone takes a photo of themselves with anything of this in the background. A sign should be visible that says, I'm like, what, this place has a name? I had to ask because it wasn't clearly visible. She's like, yeah, it's up there on the tent. It's up there on the tent, like not clear enough not from all directions so the prices are on little chalkboard little toothpicks in the thing really cute little chalkboard signs just if those had a little branding on top that said the corner flower stand or whatever right the corner flower shop and then so i go that i go you do a little photo booth thing i mean that how about this i bought a bouquet okay okay i supported little corner flower shop okay i bought a bouquet at that i got i get my bouquets from and there you can pose with it with your bouquet okay okay your flowers that you bought right yeah right all people want to do around there i mean i mean this is not a hill world where you know people are lined up queued up to take a photo in front of the blue door from notting hill whatever right so anyway and then i guess i'm going more signage um and it's it's to a point where i'm sitting They're going, I don't know if I'm going to be able to not fabricate the signage myself and simply send it to her.

28:50Okay?

28:51Kate Berlant:Okay, pre-made by me. Yeah. Nine promotional things. And then she tells me, she goes, so it's her business, but with her sister and her father. And she says something like, it's connected to an actual store. And one of the things is 85 years old. One of them is 45 years old. her shop or stand, the only thing in Notting Hill that's real, she said. I go, where's your Notting Hill sign? There's nothing but Notting Hill shit around here. You know what I mean? Like posters, like things hanging the show like Hugh Grant walking past. Oh, my God. So I just was lit up with the spirit of marketing. And I bought my freesia and my chamomile.

29:33Kate Berlant:Cute. And carried it around in my bag. Her saying they shove them back in is breaking my heart. Yeah, it's disgusting. And then I had a falafel sort of little platter that has become my regular next door to that from an outdoor portobello market stand. It's delicious. They know what I like. I like the pickles. Of course. And I sit there outside. So I have my coffee shop. I have my falafel spot. Now I have my flower spot. And it rules. Incredible. I love it. I really love it. I tell you my insight about Buckingham Palace.

30:07Jacqueline Novak:No. Just my shock that it's like not behind a huge lawn.

30:15Kate Berlant:Right. It's just like a building in the middle of a city, like almost like a building in the like Wall Street area in New York. Like it's sort of just like, whoa, like sort of like no greenery. I mean, there's greenery in the center thing. Anyway, I found it pretty, pretty, it's always interesting.

30:34Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, I guess I've never gone, I've never done a tour or anything. I've just driven by or walked by.

30:39Kate Berlant:I mean, me too. Yeah. And that's all. But that's, you know, I stood at the gate. Sure. It's like a lot of pavement, you know?

30:46Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

30:47Kate Berlant:Well, we're just, it's getting chilly around here. Is it really? And not crazy, but, you know, it feels a bit, a bit chillier, a bit breezier, a bit somber, but the somber feelings of fall, which, you know, with every passing year, I find. Less and less charming, more and more genuinely emotionally devastating. I mean, and I don't mean in a, I'm not even talking about like, you know, daylight savings. I'm talking about just like the very same beautiful notes of autumn. They haunt. It's, it's, it is, it is a sweet and somber emotion that at a different time, I think I was like, yeah, I'm hungry for it.

31:35Kate Berlant:And now I'm like, no, it's too much. Oh, wow, wow. I can feel, yeah, I understand that, I think. Oh, but I'll just say that a little spot of joy is that in the, here it's in, you know, Tesco or whatever. Animatronics are back. Halloween. The skeletons are back. The ghosts are back.

32:00Jacqueline Novak:Wow, I haven't seen one yet. The charming stuff in the stores.

32:02Kate Berlant:So they're back here.

32:04Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, it's just about time. Oh, look, I'm moving on to the next bottle.

32:07Kate Berlant:I've upped it of Environ. Wait. So remember I was telling you about this one? You bought it. And how you're supposed to use two bottles before moving on to the next level. So I was on level two. I used one bottle. It didn't irritate me in the slightest. What is it? I'm moving on to three. What is it? It's Environ Youth Essence Sequence Serum 3. The one that I originally purchased during a facial, and I ran into it in just a pharmacy here. I go, holy shit.

32:42Jacqueline Novak:I've been using, by the way, I'm getting micro-needling again in three weeks, I guess. And my micro-needling woman, she was like, get this product, this product, this product. and I trusted her also because it wasn't in her business. Like she was like, go to this website. So it's like, she's not, there's no, you know, she's not getting by her. So she's like, these are all brands I've never heard of. I've never seen. Right. Well, I told her, she sent me, she like sent me a picture of everything you're using. And I showed her and she goes, oh, you're into viral skincare. Or she was like, oh, it's very Instagram skincare.

33:20Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. I'm like. That's rude. First of all. Yeah, totally. She read me down and then she was like, get this, this, and this. So I've been using it. One of the things though was so expensive and it's like a tiny fucking bottle. And I'm a little bit like, I'm listening. Well, I'm missing my old, I'm missing my products. I'm missing my girls. I'm missing my, it's really sick. And this is why also the Instagram, it's like, I'm missing using the things that I'm seeing Charlotte Parlay

33:49Kate Berlant:stack on her face.

33:50Jacqueline Novak:Is it Parlay or Parlor? Does anyone know? um not sure but i say parlay because that's what you said but i'm like what i do yeah

34:03Kate Berlant:i i that's so funny because like not in my head yeah i've heard yeah that's why i say it like that but i'm like i want i want you might have caught me on a you might have caught me on a parlay day You know what I mean? I mean, like, but yeah, wait, wait, but before you go further, what are the ones that you see her pile on that why don't you have them now? I don't understand. You just ran out? No, they're there, but I'm not using them. I'm doing a thing where I'm going to her. Oh, because she laughed you off. Yeah, exactly. So let's hear it.

34:33Jacqueline Novak:By the way, it happened. I'm a victim of tariff culture. This is crazy. I just got, I bought, I bought a shoe from Japan on eBay. for$130.

34:46Kate Berlant:It was the size of a penny?

34:49Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, yeah. Sorry. No, no. I just got a thing. You owe$48 because of tariffs. Are you hearing this? It wasn't a scam? No, because I sent it to my friend who got the same shoes. And I said, whoa, wait, did you have to pay this? And she said, no, but I got mine pre-tariff.

35:10Kate Berlant:No. Devastating.

35:12Jacqueline Novak:And there's some specialty Japanese stores that I love. And they're having to be like, well, we –

35:20Kate Berlant:So after the fact, that's when you got it after you already paid? Yes. That seems like – I mean, you can't really do that, right? I find it crazy. I mean, you can't come knocking for money. It seems like you could get a return, but you don't want it. No, no, I'm not – I don't want to return them.

35:39Jacqueline Novak:But I go, wow, would I have bought them for the extra 50? I guess so. Maybe. It hurts, though. It's a sting. Anyway. The tariffs.

35:49Kate Berlant:Wait, but I do just want to feel the familiar girls.

35:52Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. The what?

35:53Kate Berlant:Well, do, but that's partly her brand, right? Yes. Or it is her brand.

35:58Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

36:00Kate Berlant:But what are the other? Because I trust her. What was she calling Instagram? I'm just curious. Okay.

36:05Jacqueline Novak:So I, well, listen, I want to actually look.

36:13Kate Berlant:I'm slightly appalled that she said that's you Because that's an insult Let's get real Oh yeah Okay

36:24Jacqueline Novak:I'll tell you what she was mocking Mass insult One skin Skinceuticals, which by the way, she said And Charlotte Parlay has talked about this The Cifurlic, which I've purchased a few times which is I think$180,$160 a bottle has been dethroned. It's like not shelf state. It's like, it's a patent that now has expired. You can get that product for cheaper. So SkinCeuticals is like, the C-Ferulic is no more.

36:50Kate Berlant:And - I wonder about Dennis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my woman was like, it's fine. Yeah.

36:55Jacqueline Novak:My woman was like, or my woman was like, yeah, you don't need that. She was definitely eyes up at Caglia. Eyes up at, she didn't go product to product. But I think she just looked at my photos and she goes, oh, one skin, Sophie Pavit, Dr. Loretta. She's seeing just my... What are the Sophie Pavit products you have? What about them? No, what are they? I have a cleanser.

37:25Kate Berlant:I have the Mandelic Acid. Yeah. And then... My Beauty by Justin. Okay, interesting. And she was like, sure. But like. Wait, I already forgot. Oh, right. This is your microneedalist. So you could have said, well, microneedling. I believe Zuckerberg invented that. Well, guess what? But anyway, what did she recommend? What's the tiny thing? We're dying to know. Okay, so the tiny. There's no time to save it for product order. First of all, I'm officially.

38:01Jacqueline Novak:She was like, get this oil cleanser. and I am like, wow, oil cleanser is real for me. I mean, everyone's dermis is different, but oil cleanser for me, I think really is the way.

38:11Kate Berlant:I just feel like saying that. But she was like, you don't even have to.

38:14Jacqueline Novak:Give it to me. And she's not like double cleanse. She's like, I don't know, double cleanse. I guess if you need to. But she's like, so I have the Epicutus expensive. I think it was$80. It's in a glass bottle. I need to know the ingredients. It has a pump. So she's got me on that. And then I have a Glymed skin recovery mist.

38:32Kate Berlant:so I do my mist were these on different websites? this was all on the website Art of Skin

38:39Jacqueline Novak:which has like 10 ,000 different brands

38:43Kate Berlant:interesting

38:43Jacqueline Novak:so then she's got me on the Civ Biome Balancing Serum which is like a dropper, you like drop it I will say I told her, I was like, you know, there was a period I was really using Biologique Recherche she goes, it's good stuff I go, damn

39:00Kate Berlant:I can't believe you're off it I still have never owned a product I'm like I gotta go back

39:05Jacqueline Novak:and then I use this is the really expensive stuff the plate plated is the brand plated skin science calm serum and then I've got the neogenesis barrier renewal cream

39:19Kate Berlant:this is all you bought all this I did a full line I bought it none of this is bagged this is purchased this was a huge purchase trust me and I felt sick to my stomach after I go, oh my God, oh my God. But I go, ah.

39:33Jacqueline Novak:Did you remember not to pay twice? Yep. I actually did. I think I go, no, no, no. I'm worth it. And so I'm going back for more microneedling. The thing that I'm, listen, I've heard.

39:44Kate Berlant:I want the whole list. That is the list. And I want to study it. No, no. I mean like, I just want to, like, I didn't write it down. I want to, maybe you can screen grab it easily for me.

39:54Jacqueline Novak:Honey, I'll text it. I'll text it and we'll post it on the pod.

39:55Kate Berlant:Because I want to look it up and I want to start for fun times. I want to, go hunting and check this out. Just because of the original insult with the Instagram, I'm really looking to find some holes in this. If that oil cleanser is just some basic oil cleanser in a nice bottle, I'm coming for it. I would love to know. Yeah, yeah, totally.

40:20Jacqueline Novak:Do you remember, Jacqueline, when we were in London? She's insulted everything we stand for. When we were in London, do you remember being told, don't do RF? radio frequency.

40:31Kate Berlant:Remember that? Yes, sure do.

40:33Jacqueline Novak:So I have since not, right? This woman who I am trusting, she was like, I do a thing. She goes, it's so low heat. She's like, radio frequency can get, you know, can get fucked up when it's, you know, people are using a too high heat. That's when you get into melting the fat and all of that. She goes, this thing that I

40:52Kate Berlant:I do use some RF, but it's such a low level. And I have a friend who's done that with her, this treatment, a few times.

41:02Jacqueline Novak:And I told her, I go, I'm scared. I'm scared. I hear RF. And I go, no, no, no, no, no. She's like, don't be scared. Do I do it?

41:12Kate Berlant:Well, here's the thing. I think you're, okay, stateside, you're saying, should I be scared? Is this going to melt fat, lose facial volume, slash is something going to happen to me after three uses? That's not what we were getting worried about in London. Or, you know, my friend's done it a few times. What we were getting worried about in London was not the idea that something bad would happen as a result of doing it like once or a couple times. It was that long-term, conceptually, the way that, you know how we wrote like a laugh and a half about, you know, that everything is like if you can destroy collagen, forcing it to rebuild, you know, back better, right?

41:55Kate Berlant:It's like, yeah, everything is that, you know? They're like slappy across the face that stimulates collagen, right? Like everything stimulates collagen. And so the person we were talking to was telling us that RF, et cetera, that certain of these forms of breaking down the collagen so that it rebuilds, they're too violent, okay? And so it rebuilds in a way that's more close to how scar tissue rebuilds versus how, you know, some other form of healing or what new skin is like when collagen, you know, like young skin repairs itself with new collagen. So basically it's saying like, And, yeah, so that's why, like, you know, the lemon laser, okay?

42:39Kate Berlant:Yeah, yeah. But it is quite compelling when you think about it. It's like it stimulates it too fast and in too desperate a scar-like fashion.

42:50Jacqueline Novak:Interesting.

42:51Kate Berlant:Interesting. But if you were me, would you try the thing? I mean, you're trying everything. You're trying all sorts of stuff. Like, I'm in a just phase of nothing. things so it's like I just I need to know a random RF unless I'm on the table and someone's like want this like sure I guess but I want to know why I'm pursuing these things do you just see what

43:19Jacqueline Novak:I'm saying like what what result is it well this she goes is like lifting she was like this thing and my friend who's done it is like, it's cool. And what's interesting...

43:35Kate Berlant:And what's the product called? It's one of these things with a corporate name? Like Rudial or something? You know what I mean?

43:44Jacqueline Novak:Morpheus. Yeah, exactly. No, this is just... Wait, let me find this. I don't know if this is the... There's too

43:54Kate Berlant:many now. I know. You know, not to sound like whatever, but it's like it.

44:05Jacqueline Novak:But is that what it really is? That's just what she's calling it. And lift is always questionable. When they're lifting?

44:16Kate Berlant:Yeah, I mean, it's.

44:21Jacqueline Novak:Okay, I'm not saying. I think it's like they're calling it that, but it's not like that. It's not like Morpheus. It's not like that. You should be like, what is the machine? Yeah, what is it, sweetheart?

44:32Kate Berlant:Not like how she formatted it on her menu.

44:34Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, totally. My rage, like the way I'm going after this woman. I know.

44:41Kate Berlant:You are. But yeah, I just, I don't know. You're loving the microneedling?

44:49Jacqueline Novak:I mean, you have to do it a few times. I'd say, yeah, I think I'm like, okay, yeah, things are looking good. But were they anyway? Yeah, exactly, exactly. I am a little like, huh.

45:02Kate Berlant:I mean, here's the joke.

45:03Jacqueline Novak:You have to do it a few times. You do have an incredibly serious, you know, as I see it, until dethroned medical device, the Lima laser. I know. I'm just going, where is your three minutes a day on a given spot?

45:20Kate Berlant:Oh, my God, I know.

45:21Jacqueline Novak:Trust me, I know.

45:22Kate Berlant:Maybe it's this, Kate. Maybe, because look, I too have not yet started the 90 days because I have not yet been consistent, right?

45:30Jacqueline Novak:Mm-hmm.

45:32Kate Berlant:What if we choose one fucking spot?

45:35Jacqueline Novak:Today, yeah. And because it's like that you just stick it on and it's easy.

45:41Kate Berlant:Like I'm almost, dare I say, tempted to do one side of the face is hard because sun, well, you know, for one reason, right? I mean, but honestly, like if it was so good that one, that you looked ridiculous out in public, because your one spot on your cheek was so good, I think you'd be all right to catch it up. But I'm like, maybe we should do the test. Like maybe we should do it on one knee. Like just some random spot.

46:06Jacqueline Novak:Just go right for the face.

46:08Kate Berlant:You didn't go right for the face? It's not enough.

46:09Jacqueline Novak:It's too much time. It's too much of a sacrifice to be a knee.

46:13Kate Berlant:But the difference is that like you just, you know, the one spot you stick it on is three minutes to start. No, I hear you. I'm just trying to think, oh, you know what would kind of be interesting? One hand.

46:26Jacqueline Novak:Back of one hand.

46:27Kate Berlant:Yeah. But then again, I don't know. I really want to get serious.

46:36Jacqueline Novak:With Lima. I know. Me too.

46:38Kate Berlant:And I'm also really going to keep putting it on the jaw. I find it comforting just to do it.

46:44Jacqueline Novak:I'm coming up on one year of TMJ brought on by a chimney sweep. It's unbelievable. Oh, right, right. In December, it'll be a year. I have to go. I'll tell you one thing I need. Buckle. And I did get a recommendation of intense buckle massage. When I went to go see the sculptress. They're in Los Angeles? In London, you should go see the sculptress. She gave an amazing massage. What? You had one in London?

47:07Kate Berlant:Yeah.

47:07Jacqueline Novak:I'll send you.

47:08Kate Berlant:Oh, my God.

47:09Jacqueline Novak:I mean, I paid. Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah.

47:11Kate Berlant:But this was a wreck?

47:13Jacqueline Novak:Yep. I'm going to send you the email. You should go. Oh, my God. I'm sending you the email right now because she fucking rocks.

47:19Kate Berlant:or face massage in general. By the way, a hag recommended her. I need it now.

47:27Jacqueline Novak:It's so good for the jaw, and she really goes in there.

47:32Kate Berlant:London hags.

47:34Jacqueline Novak:Beyond.

47:35Kate Berlant:They're great. They're really good. I also don't mind an American hag abroad in London. Of course. You run into those too. It's nice. Nice to see.

47:46Jacqueline Novak:Someone sent a photo of two people in POOG merch at the farmer's market. Did you see that? Yeah. Was it Instagram?

47:52Kate Berlant:Oh, I only saw one.

47:55Jacqueline Novak:Someone's wearing a POOG hat and someone's wearing a POOG shirt. And they're both like canvassing for a good cause.

48:00Kate Berlant:Forgetting what it was.

48:01Jacqueline Novak:It was something about like tenants rights or something.

48:06Kate Berlant:Merch continues to bring people together. While we forget to advertise it daily like we should.

48:12Jacqueline Novak:Well, new merch is coming. New merch is coming. So just hold tight.

48:16Kate Berlant:Well, and also get the classics before it is all taken away because it might not be reissued.

48:24Jacqueline Novak:Everything's limited edition. Everything forever. All right.

48:29Kate Berlant:Love you. Bye. Bye. Bye-bye.

48:46Thank you.