Probably the Ugliest Woman

0:19Off air, I was talking about having, just so everyone understands, having a meltdown over my continued redness today my skin was the best it's been i put on hydrocortisone cream and it immediately flares up i don't actually start crying but i start being like frozen in disbelief and my face is still kind of burning again i want everyone to understand and it's some kind of allergic reaction whatever i'm fucking convinced it was germplaning a month ago are you serious my barrier yep germplaning a month ago fucked up my barrier using products being on sorry to say it different sets random products different makeups literally today the dermatologist goes you know air you're on aerosols I go yeah she goes yeah you can and I was like well I use snell mucin basically she's like you can be using a product have no reaction just suddenly you're allergic to it I was like oh that's like that's complete and total like so we're fucked we're fucked beyond belief anyway point is but then you said so I go I go being ugly feeling ugly the horrors so and i'll post on i sent jacqueline a photo so um it's funny i was going to say and i was going to say this earlier shall we talk today about fucking called ugly on the internet yeah or appearance appearance and the horrors the life now that we live the life now that we live and yeah and to be clear i see even though i'm you know rehabilitating from Instagram and I'm over a month.

1:44I have over 30 days of sobriety from Instagram, but, um, I did see due to a motion picture in which I have approximately four lines, the moment starring Charlie XCX. Thank you to all involved. It was so much fun. Um, but the point is I was involved in a photo shoot with Charlie, Rachel Sennett and Kylie Jenner. Okay. Amazing. You know, hot girl lineup everyone is you know couldn't be sweeter easier whatever point is i am all social media felt welcome on the day i felt welcome on the day right and that was the morning of the rash okay i need everyone to really lock in and understand that was the morning the rash getting a makeup done her going oh it's spreading to your neck i go interesting point is it was fast it was easy i saw on twitter which i still call twitter i don't and knowledge the point is i saw I saw someone had posted the photo and said, wait, I want to get the language exactly right for the listener.

2:43I also spent, by the way, like Chris and I, I think spent like 25 minutes talking about it, like, like on a long stroll, like about life. You know what I mean? It's amazing. And I want to say before I go further, this genuinely, I'm not, I'm not trying to be some kind of like, it really doesn't actually bother me also because this is like someone who I retweeted it as, Did you go into the profile? Yeah, of course, of course. Okay, so this person, so again, it's me, Charlie XCX, Rachel Sennett, and Kylie Jenner. I'm obviously far and away the least famous of the group. To some of us, okay? So the point is...

3:16To some. And this man, Daniel Seyfried, quoted it and said this, and it's actually funny. This Kate, who, question mark, which by the way, fair, is probably one of the ugliest women I've ever seen. and then proceeds to retweet a pop crave photo of the four of us and here to say it is not an ugly photo of me like this is like a totally like i see this photo and i go yeah like like now was it video or photo originally like photo it wasn't like he watched some program on pop crave and he got to know you we shot some tiktoks and stuff but i don't think those are out yet this is like just a still frame that he came across on pop crave so and presumably this guy isn't gay and he's on pop crave dragging me fucking bitch and by the way you retweeted in protest yeah he's and he looks in his photo he's like on some mountain selfie he looks maybe i mean he's fully you know salt and pepper like I don't know but this doesn't like did this injure me no have I thought about it a lot yes no no you know as have I right did it injure me okay right on your behalf you know no because I then went on a walk you know with Chris okay yeah and dig into it dig Yeah.

4:46Yeah. We got into a long conversation about, I mean, it honestly went all the way to the soul, right? Like, okay. And by the time we like came back with 45 minutes later, you know, like we were like wrapping up the, you know, exploratory conversation and amazing talking about, you know, on one hand, we, we know that just going so extreme with it, like somebody says something right yeah what does that mean like why does that mean something to us does it like you know like we know all the kind of retorts to that guy's a piece of shit right he doesn't know what he's talking you know he's a loser whatever right yeah we know that but you feel something still maybe even if even if the feeling is i mean you know one time years ago I said I said to someone like um oh god there's all these you know horrible comments under my stand-up clip on college humor.com or something right god forbid I mean and they're like so what were they like that you're fat ugly stupid not funny um annoying you know like they just laid out all the stuff right and I was like yeah yeah like all those whatever right and then there was something sort of like a relief of going I don't know you know there's a conversation about there's a lot of conversations we can unpack this for 19 episodes right there's how we feel about ourselves and our appearances and being in public then there's other people's actions words whatever i mean you know like my dad tried to teach the novak rule he tried to make this like a rule to help us he was like the novak rule is don't worry okay about what other people thinks say or do now now we all go well we care about other people dad or whatever you know no no you said no no don't worry like it's a specific thing right it's not I don't care about other people it was you know it's simple but it's like you know that has nothing to do with me all this kind of stuff we know all this we know all this right yeah what is it really like I have a problem which is you know like good ideas can come from anywhere right yeah it's almost like some jackass insults my work.

7:07Yeah. It's like, he's got a point. Yeah. You know, he could, you know? Oh, oh, oh, well it's, I already live in fear of like, you want to hurt me? Like go for my work. Right. Read me a film. Like the comedy of this, like this, I retweeted this, this is funny. Cause is one of the ugliest women I've ever seen is so it's like, I offended him. Like to me, it's almost like, yeah. Right. No, no, no. Like my presence in that lineup. No, no, No, that's exactly it. I'm sorry, I'm interrupting because I'm like activated. Go ahead. No, no, no. Chris, the first thing he said was people get so angry, okay, when they see someone they don't know with people they do know.

7:48And they feel personally like that could have been me. Oh, my God. That's so funny. Why you and not me? Well, this is exactly what Cole said, if I may. Yes. they were like it's almost like this person's just like who's that instead of like it's like i don't like that i don't know her i don't like that she thinks she can stand next well that's kylie jenner it's like it's it's very yeah yeah it's that like there there's not that much to examine within his comment it's more like interesting to and it's a larger conversation about you know and encompasses so much but for us and again the drawstring the psychic drawstring the the silk yeah like you have to pull up yeah or draw clothes the draw bridge draw clothes i mean you you are very good i'm pretty good at drawing you're really good at loling yeah like shit from the world right yeah and i'm actually comforted and sometimes think of like your how you would lol something to almost like utilize it in my own life it's like when you remember blinking white guy yeah yeah remember how he became he was like a he modeled a psychological response that i didn't know was possible or something yeah right right and it freed me like almost like yeah like that's all i need you can move on yeah you can be like that was a huh and move on completely i mean i again feeling ugly next to beautiful women is like a deep part of how i formed my personality.

9:27And again, I don't think I'm ugly. I mean, of course I do sometimes, but you know what I mean? I'm just saying I don't struggle deeply with like, and I think part of that is also got, and of course now I'm getting, I'm getting like, I'm doing the thing that happens to us sometimes where we zoom out and we go, oh my God, it's so embarrassing to, you know, it's like, I'm talking about this in the way I've been in front of people. I've been on walking on stage age since I was X years old, but it is just true. You kind of get out ahead of it where you go, yeah, what's the worst thing you can do to a woman?

9:59Call her ugly? Right. So it's like, I go, right. No, no. I'm saying sure. Like, yeah. I go, right. No. So it's kind of like, so you get up there and go, you're ugly. You go, okay. Like, well, it's all, I mean, I, you know, it's also, you should have seen my friends in middle school and high school, honey. like I had the courage to stand next to them at school dances and at the mall like but I just mean like it doesn't really it and I mean this genuinely doesn't really hurt because it's just like yeah I don't think I I don't you know this stuff has been like so battled about on the internet like right like this this sort of discourse I know like nothing's even talked talk about yeah i'm not saying that i'm not saying that i'm saying like i'm almost bounding through all this stuff that's already been said like like and trying to be like all right like where have we landed i mean one unfortunate thing like like you you know this but but okay like there's so many levels right the first is like i don't know like maybe if i were a different woman right and i actually like did even say this i was like you are gorgeous i could like throw that in on the sex like yeah like just in case or like whatever but there's something like like simple like uh 30 year ago like honey ago just don't listen to him yeah yeah totally totally whatever by the way it's like the origin and we've all come to find that we've all i feel like in the modern way right that's almost unacceptable right because it's like well of course you know your objective uh beauty score which we all agree could absolutely be a thing you know has been um question he's wrong everything's okay because he is wrong right right right it's like so so that's like the old way like honey you're gorgeous right yeah and it's like that's old and sort of sort of like not it right it's right right i don't know it's like yeah that's not it either because it's like but then like being like sterilely like like this is about like sound comes out of a man's mouth to sound you know it's like it's it's like I was thinking about him it's more just like it's fascinating because it's just like oh my god like we need not speak of the vitriol the violent vitriol you know of the internet or something and and it's if you're on there at all it's like well then you're subject to it and like I mean it was the reminder for me I was staying offline and like just kind of you cannot go anything that you're looking for you'll find.

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15:01So I went through a brief moment where I came across some comments. Remember I was sitting in a chair in a London park, okay, and I started going after it, started replying to people. Oh, yeah. Well, that's a fucking bummer. Oh, my God. Yeah. You cannot engage. It's useless. I mean, what it is to – like with this, that's like, you're ugly. It's like there's no – I weep for him. I pray for him. But I actually was doing a mental exercise in the bath because I was thinking about him. I was like, so what is that? Like you're like – you're matching him. Log on. Pop Crave, first of all. What is your life that you're like consuming Pop Crave?

15:36Or you go, who's that? Wait, who's that girl on the end? Who the fuck does she think she is? This is the ugliest woman I've ever seen send. And I was like, if I could push a button and ruin his life, would I? It's like, no. Do I want him to like, and there's nothing. It's not like that's an offensible comment where it's like, well, I'm reaching out. I'm going to dox you. I'm going to find your employer. Your employee called me ugly. You know, there's like nothing. There's been no crime. Well, I'm always surprised. like I'm always like okay unless that man lives alone right let's just say unless that man lives alone and knows nobody you know has no has no just women family members let's just say okay it's like has no mother has no daughter has no sister okay has no friend whatever it's like who is he tweeting for right let's just say well the tweet by the way I retweeted it which got eyes on it of course yeah but had i not who i mean so so it's like a diary is he talking to yeah yeah yeah so so then you go right you go does he think he's like in that in that little moment where he goes i'm gonna post this right starts typing it right does he think i know it's like there's nothing to investigate in him and yet i always like i just i am fascinated because so one one thought is either they don't believe the people on the other end of these things are real, like that you are a real person.

17:02Right, right. Which is part of it. Or they know you're a real person and they're comfortable saying that to a real person, right? Which they're not under any circumstances. Like there's no way this person, this guy would shout at me on the street, you're the ugliest woman I've ever seen. So he must think you, he must, like if you're on Pop Crave or whatever, in his in his world by like ad for pop crave which i've never heard of like you know yeah totally sorry pop crave okay but like the whole episode of this like it's like he sees pop crave he sees you with them right yeah in the archetypal nature of you know fame and da da da okay and you're the one being photographed there's more you're you're looking because i think in the photo you're looking at a camera who's not the camera that captured the exactly this isn't like This isn't the photo that's like, this is like a behind the scenes photo.

17:54Oh yeah. Almost like, yeah. Like a photo of the shoot kind of thing. And so there's like a two layer thing where it's almost like you're so removed from him. Like not only are you not looking into the eye of the camera, AKA him in this photo, he's looking from the side at other people taking photo of you. Interesting. Interesting. And I think he sees, you know, he's raising you up so high that he believes it's completely safe to like, like as though you're you're floating by in a golden you know chariot okay and he's like flicking a piece of pop he thinks you're on the movie screen and he's throwing a piece of popcorn at the movie screen totally but also i don't know because i you know i always i often assume the best yeah yeah and and like i don't understand um but no this is like the thing of like you want i want to do a full like investigative like serial podcast where i go find him you know it's like hi it's me like can you imagine i find him i go i fly to him hi do i look familiar to you he's like no there's no way i would he goes so funny yeah like the pretty picture of me i was like this one we've ever seen the pretty picture beside the point but imagine right finding him what would he what would he do well i mean when i d end or or you know oh yeah the person One of the people in the comments, right, of something.

19:16Did they say, like, sorry? Weren't they, like – No, I left one visible that was, like, kind of like a – I was kind of, like, amped up from the other guys. And so then, like, this person, you know, who was sort of saying, like, something that was annoying, like, but about the work, you know. And so he's like, you put your work out on the internet, you know. I wrote the – and I think, no one's questioning your rights, sweetie. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. like you know there's this thing in me it was rough because i went into this dm or i i wrote that's a fucking bummer and then something and then or the guy then dm me and then i'm going dming back and he just keeps going and going and starts like taunting me like this has taken a long time like for you to reply like dot dot dot like like you forming a response like oh my thing about real comedians is like they can like uh like on the spot be funny like i almost want to find it But he goes, no wonder you don't have any tour dates in the U.S.

20:15You have to go to another country to whatever. Yeah, of course. Of course. Okay. And then he's like, real comics battle it out on the road for years. Yeah. They don't just have their manager buy them a special. Oh, that's incredible. It's actually incredible, right? Because what do you hear there? Believes he knows something about showbiz. Honey, if your manager can buy you a special. If you can buy you a special. Yeah. it's kind of like like i think jamie lee like our friend comedian like used to have this uh like joke or like whatever it was something about like like you know sleeping your way to the top or something but it was like oh if you could do that yeah like yeah just like yeah it ain't as easy like you know that if your dreams aren't a bj away no right that's what she's like if it was a couple blowies or something you know like like any business person all right maybe not i forget how the joke went yeah point is point is right so he's like throwing all that at me and then i get into this state and then i like send it to my my agent in a who you know i barely talked to her i mean right but i sent it to him almost like i just want you to know okay like this is what i'm out there against like so like just see like just just remember with me and your other women clients okay yeah yeah yeah psychotic i don't know why I went there for emotional whatever.

21:39And he was like, you gave this guy the thrill of his life. You made his day. You made his year. So I was instantly ashamed and being like, yeah, but why do I have to be so – I'm like, I'm happy to make his year if I also in one moment didn't have self-restraint. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I famously defend, I notoriously defend sort of useless, diminishing return. You know, like, that's only going to make it worse. Like, fuck it, I'm doing it anyway. It's so crazy because I'm having the urge. Like, again, I don't respond to trolls, whatever. Yeah. I'm having the urge also because thank fucking God.

22:17Like, imagine, like, famous women, like, what they get. Like, true. I mean, we know what they get. But what I'm trying to say is I'm having the urge right now. I'm not going to do it. I'm also having the urge. to DM the guy and be like, who are you? And like, what, what brought you to this? Well, no, part of me wants to like, cause when I read that comment, did it ruin my day? Absolutely not. Did it make me feel bad about myself? No. Right. But it's like, it makes me want to go like, Hey, like I'm a person and like, it takes a lot of courage for me to get up there and stand up there. And it's, it's hard being in front of the camera and opening yourself up to, you know, to criticism and the scrutiny.

22:52And, um, you know, you really hurt me, man. It's almost like the ultimate it's like i just want to hurt him like i'm just like i believe that he has a soul and a heart i think most people i do think most people are good and don't want to hurt people no no i think yeah i do too so i would go into this thing where it wasn't like i go in and go fuck you fuck you okay i was like this really bummed me out or like yeah like like i was like what a bummer for me to come over here and read this right now i was enjoying my day i posted of this clip. I also think there's something where they don't know who you are.

23:28So you're not J-Lo where every single thing that can be said must have been said by now, right? Yeah. I actually think there's a feeling of if they see you as vulnerable as in, I don't know who she is yet. You're trying to make me let her into the kingdom of the gods. She's on the edge. I think I can almost, I still have enough power to knock her off. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. right so i decided how many gods there were okay yeah and there were those and then there were the rest of us and if you tell me that some of the rest of us could ascend so i think there's a little bit of like you know it's sort of um like i forget who who's talked about this but it's like people see like i don't know like a late night television set or something some something literally they see you on tv they think you're rich right no by the way okay like literally like as though yeah if you're on that side of the screen like it's almost like honey it ain't the 90s it ain't 2019 you don't make money anymore in this town it's yeah it's a it's like a i mean it's like clamor to get the late night spot for years whatever do it it pays 800 i don't know you know it goes pretty quick totally and it's like so so anyway anyway so um but i go hi i go hi this really bummed me out like I just am curious why like yeah why would you post this like yeah because sometimes when I click through they appear to have like daughters dogs okay gone their shoulders of course and oh I told you about this I told you about this so I go into the profile dig around find like a deep cut in their thing and then like I did a couple where I like this would be like if I said blah blah blah about da da da and then I did like a song title that like was like deep in someone's cut of like their own work oh wait wait jacquette no this is so funny because i want to make sure that people understand what you're saying no this is really funny you like someone who responded to you was me and who was saying to you like you're not a real comedian like you're not funny bitch or whatever you found his like soundcloud or something it was it was just inside of his um and so then you were very easy so i could be you're gonna respond to me like you know name a song like this is uh like this is like if i came to you about wisdom dog sled and said like you know if i said wisdom dog sled should have been eighth not ninth on the list you know like that was more so funny it's a fundamental human question to respond because listen we care what you know you care what people think we're social creatures this is this is you know we live by the word of the other but you know we see it but it's i'm not going to dm him but i want to but i won't i i also don't want to but also because i'm scared of these men like scared where i'm like oh and then you're gonna chop my head off because it it's when they are brazen my head off about it yeah like their account is public and they're and they have a daughter on there whatever you know it's like you know is that not a precursor violence i mean i mean you know often it is yeah it's like now there's also the whole oh the ones who get it out that way aren't the ones you gotta worry about you know that whatever but but just it almost is as simple as like did you hate your mother like and again i'm not trying to do the like like women only have value in terms of relationship they have to met you know like the whole thing like that's someone's sister that's that's a man's daughter yeah yeah yeah But it's like you're trying to get into their humanity the fastest way you think you can get in.

27:04And you're going, I see that guy has a dog. That guy has a daughter. That guy has a vase. Okay. I'll name the things of value to him and be like, you know. I'm like, I have a father. He read that post. You have a daughter. You know what I mean? And again, like with this motherfucker, it's like I'm confident he would never say this to my face for sure. but even in public, like, I think if you were walking by and you saw me, like, he wouldn't go like, Jesus, that's one of the ugliest girl. That's, that's the ugliest woman I've ever seen. Like, like, so it's, it's only in this anyway, whatever. It's like, I'm doing a really poor inarticulate attempt today.

27:46It's like, we all know what this is. We all know what's at play here. And like the dynamics and mediatized images and how we're all, it's like, this isn't hand to hand combat this is the abstraction of violence of like you know just like press a button and you kill people with a drone it's like it's like humanity abstracted and abstracted and it's all it's all connected man anyway i uh thank you thank you for defending my honor i need to i send it to you immediately and you um well i was saying i would happy to sign up again you know to go over oh yeah you were like say the word oh yeah yeah yeah i mean there's nothing better than being called to action like that um but then it becomes about another thing which is battle of wits and like imagine how mad i get when see then it's you know what you're gonna love though guess who did come to my honor who mike ristine wait on on uh on like unprompted i read yo i'm post no no right i retweeted his comment right and then where is it mike ristine basically did like a classic like pretty gay thing to say buddy or something you know but then i love seeing people people commenting you will rot in hell for this like you fucked up with this she's more beautiful than you'll ever be you know it's really sweet so god bless everyone who came to my honor and we send we send this man this hurting man this aching man we send him our prayers i mean if if we could watch the doc on his life if we could be yeah right i know i know i mean it's funny though girls get him yeah girls get him susan yeah and then yeah and then like and then like yeah like little boy okay and uh and the shame you know you know like we create this like don't you immediately create a very certain kind of film that brought him to this place it's like oh yeah but then that this is another issue where where it becomes um you can only forgive if you know like like uh what are the terms of forgiveness the terms of forgiveness only if this person's life led them to this place versus like irrelevant or whatever what you're saying is reminding me of like sometimes i see a site you see a site of human suffering that's so unbearable that sometimes i almost i'm like i have the urge to go like okay like for example I think when this originated, I was like 16 and I remember seeing an old man, like a really elderly man, kind of like curled spine, like kind of struggling to cross the street with like heavy bags.

30:21And I was just like, this can't be, you know, like. Sorry. Sorry, my Phil light. By the way, who knows? He could be having a great time. You know what I mean? He could be like having a great time. But I interpreted it as like, oh, my God, this guy's like alone and he's struggling and he's old and no one's helping him. And does he live alone? And what's going on? And then it's almost like in order to make it bearable, I had to go, maybe he's like, you know, this horrible child molester. I was like, I had to like fantasize he was evil. So then the other thing is someone acts hideously and, you know, it's the, you know, you don't know what they're going through.

31:04Right. and so i start painting scenarios of of you know all the awful things that have happened to them that that right spiritually there's an issue there which is like you're basically saying like they better have paid oh i know to be here and deserve my forgiveness it's amazing no there's no exactly because like and like another like carolyn mace but like you know when she's going through the chakras and up in the seventh or whatever where like you know all is one and there is no time hell yeah um let's get there there's no past there's no future like there's nothing to forgive like forgiveness is instant radical because like there's no past there's there is nothing to forgive you know yeah you know it's like oh yeah what was this like where was i hearing this it's something like kabbalistic karma or something but it's like this idea of like people think like it's just way of interpreting karma as because people go oh it's you know you did something bad in a past life and that's why you're so right or you did something good and that's why you're being rewarded now i'm gonna butcher this i have to find it but it's some other interpretation which is like no no one's bad or good like it's all like these things are playing out oh this is not it and i've well i think the i think the the um pay up or the the boomerang karma or whatever like i think that model is like pretty thin yeah yeah it's on its way out Well, also, but here's where I, here's where reincarnation and where I love it in past lives.

32:33And I fucking love this. Daniel Seyfried friend or whatever his name is. We have a past life tether. Like this is a thing where I'm like, or does it, does it relate to digital economy? Because I love the reincarnation idea, which is a Kabbalistic idea of like every single person you encounter in this life is part of your, like everyone you pass on the street, you bump into someone at the supermarket and go, oh, sorry. That's like, they're all. That's another Carol Lee's book as we brought up Sacred Contract. Oh shit yeah like it's all yeah it's all one you have business with them right so like do Daniel and I have business like so and is that like who knows where he lives who knows yeah well well what what it would be life like right what it would be was something like you know like I think part of the the mindset is like with the sacred contracts thing is like he fulfilled his sacred contract to you in this life is to post that yeah it's like it's like you know like you're in our school and like and he's supposed to do that so that you can do it uh so that we can know this conversation so thank you for filling your sacred contract to me but but the the place that it took me when we were you know on this long walk and i've noticed that like when i go on these walks with chris just her standard sort of leave the house walk often end up like with the grove you know get a coffee, walk home kind of thing.

33:51I feel like we're usually mad about something like, you know, global society at a certain point in the walk. Like, it's almost like, you know, like the root, it's like so weird. And I feel like we're usually at like spiritual ecstasy at another point in the root. Like it's almost like there's a time to - You have to go through. Yeah, you have to move through. But the thought I had while we were walking, and there's a different way that your brain works while you're walking which by the way walking another another feature by the way that's why i'm trapped because i haven't been walking the last few days because i can't go outside i can't put anything on my skin even sunscreen your hat's on my way my new hat hasn't arrived yet so i can't i can't go out although this could be your parasol moment i know it's not what you want i'm just saying you know i know so here was my realization right because i was thinking how do we deal with how can a little thing like a comment potentially ruin me because i've i've had it happen, you know, for a day and I have to work through it and, you know, whatever.

34:50It's like, yeah. And I was thinking, I was thinking, just, just, just, I'm going to try to say it like, fly with me. I might not get it out, but I'm going to give it a shot. So on, let's say the internet, let's just say on Twitter or something, right? You take up an inch or two inches, like across the screen. He takes up two inches across the screen, right? His comment also, like a, like a tweet or something takes up a certain amount of space. If you reply, it takes up the same amount of space, right? There's an avatar situation happening where, and this is why I think people like the democratizing cruelty of, you know, okay, is that like their unit there is as big and takes up as much space as yours, right?

35:33Interesting. So, but in a larger way, when you then think I'm walking around on this walk, you know, talking to Chris and I go, okay, someone makes a comment that upsets me right now. It's like, it's a little comment and they've made it about me, let's just say on the internet. And it's almost like they've hurled it at the little me, which is the me on the internet, the digital avatar. But I'm over here, right? Right. So, and then I was saying, I was like, this is my, my scale is everything. So I was like, I was like, I'm gonna write a self-help book that's like only about like, like, it's like size matters.

36:08Okay. But But for me, what it is, is if that comment, if I'm treating it almost like the digital model world, like his comment is as big as my reply to it. Those two things are equal. Right. So who am I? What am I? Right. And it's like if I'm this again, like the altitude. Right. But it's like, all right, I'm a soul. OK. And my soul has seven mansions. Right. OK. Suddenly I'm grand. Right. like I'm large and even just that just the soul forget you know all these other aspects and then you picture the little comet and you imagine that like fluttering by the moat okay getting caught in the moat or something so the whole thing depends on not shrinking yourself to the size of of what they attacked like yes you remember your the largeness of your soul it's it's so obvious like that it sounds like nothing but no but it's real and that's why even like i retweeted it because i thought it was funny and also i was just like getting a kick it's like so amazing but then of course i was like should i even have retweeted it you know is that even well that's why i'm like magnetic to reclaim the right to like to be have a human response and reply in the moment like that's what i mean like i almost felt like doubly ashamed like the agent being like Like, you just made his year.

37:26Yeah, yeah. Jack-o-lantern. You know what I mean? Like, you did wrong. So. Well, you know what I was thinking? I'm going to say quickly. I heard an interview with George Saunders. Yeah. And he was saying in a really sweet way, or he was talking about he was searching himself on the internet or something. Yeah. And that someone had, he had done a talk, like a book talk, and saw a comment and somebody was like, or somebody had responded to his post about a book talk being like, this was like such a piece of shit talk like and that george then responded to him and was like you know like this hurt like or like i'm just sitting here in my pajamas and read this and like and then the guy oh no i'm sorry the guy emailed george saunders to say i think or emailed thinking like oh george saunders isn't gonna read this this is gonna get like this is just like there was something where it was clearly this person could not imagine that George Saunders was going to get...

38:25But then he goes like, I'm sitting in my pajamas and I just read this. And like, I'm a person at the end of this who's like, bummed out now or whatever. And then the guy responds and was like, sorry, like... No, I always think if I respond with humanity, like, that's why I was like, this is a bummer. Or, you know, kind of just like... And then by the way, maybe you will rehabilitate and that person won't do it again because they'll go, oh my God, these people... Well, this is the joke of the internet and the joke of Twitter. It's like... people are reading their shit. If you want to get to a celebrity, the only one I can think of is Tom Cruise.

38:59If you want to be like Tom Cruise, like you aren't good anymore, just write Tom Cruise. You aren't good anymore on Twitter. Like he'll find it. He'll see it. Like I know like, like there's part of me that really believes that. Oh, me too. Like totally. Well, I mean, anecdotally, haven't you heard like, have you not been in a situation where you've heard somebody extraordinarily famous reference a comment they saw of course of course so they see you know no it'll get so maybe by you doing that then the person goes well i'm not gonna it's you know it's it jolts them into reality they go oh this is a person this is someone in their pajamas this is someone who has their life with all their sadnesses and disappointments and and anxieties and you've reached them directly why well that's so you're saying like you have to do the work of being a person on the other end to be a steward of the future.

39:48I'm just saying maybe by you responding to that guy, I think that probably did lead him to maybe, maybe. I mean, one guy and I worked it out, like kind of publicly, right? He was the one with the music and, you know, and whatever. And I admitted, I was like, I'm sorry, like you, yeah, you were commenting on your thoughts about the work, you know, whatever. I was like, I was more, you know what I think helps? I think some of the callousness or, you know, callous that you develop that, you know, some of it is once you've heard a variety of things and some of them are heinous, but you might think are like not true.

40:25And you know that it gives you this. And this is more like in the gutter, you know, like like not spiritually, whatever advice. This is like surviving a negative statement. Yeah. Like just like like this is like, you know, lower down, like does not whatever. It's just like that other person, you know, fuck. I don't have an example. As usual, abstraction leaves me illegible. Okay. But it's like once you have examples of people calling things out and they're dead wrong, then you can kind of question some of the other ones. I don't know. I always found it comforting. I mean, it's funny, like the shit that sticks with you, like literally.

41:05It's funny the shit that sticks with you. Yeah. but like Naomi I know it was Naomi well who's the one that uh oh no I know most okay do you remember this and it was probably in one magazine once Christy Tarlington it was like they did a study of like that it was like that she had the most perfect face in the world oh yeah yeah totally totally it was like it was like they did it in a like they cast in marble like based on you know all these things and it was like and one face was revealed to be like the one or something like that and then so there's that there's um Nicole Kidman high school photo I was awkward okay yeah yeah because my beauty was strange there's Tyra Banks saying something like beauty is debatable like a lot of people thought I looked like an alien or whatever yeah remember that kind of and then I've heard people say things like i've heard people say you know you hear it oh you hear you hear people say things and it should be comfortable they don't think you know i won't again no examples because i won't i can't even do it i can't like i can't even do the like what if you were to say tom cruise like you're not good anymore because i'm like it's too sad what if like that gets pulled out of context and they like i'm not saying that i want to be clear i'm not saying that You know what the final pain here is, I'll just say, is that there is a measured self-conscious quality I experience in this conversation.

42:40Of course. Which is that these have become topics so loaded. I know. Like that I don't feel like I'm even, I'm speaking freely, but like, right? Of course. Of course. And I'm just saying that just to like, because that's one thing. And I don't even know. I feel it too. That's part of the conversation. It's just that it's like. Well, it's just like reacting to it. Yeah. And it's just, it's eternal. And then you just, that's where you kind of just want to go to, sweet, are you gorgeous? What are you talking about? I know, I know, I know. And then like. And it's like, no, I know. Right. It's like, mother, it's not about that.