Pronouncing the Interior

7:00Kate Berlant:You're obviously a very good dancer. Incredible dancer. Thank you. I think it's like math or something. You just, no, no, no.

7:06Jacqueline Novak:I get very like, and so, and it starts happening and the workout to me, and here's what was really sweet. And this is what I was focusing on. People were being really cute in the class. Like people were like smiling and they were, and I was like, good for them. like it's Sunday. It's 930. You know, we're in here like that's cute. But I hate it. And I was thinking, I go, I'm going to leave. And I go, by the way, damn straight, I'm going to leave. I don't have to stay here. So I kept timing. I go, just leave now. I go, it's not a good moment. I'll leave during the choreo when it's the most active.

7:38Jacqueline Novak:And I go, no, the instructor, her feelings are going to be hurt. I'm leaving. I don't like her class. I stayed is the point, but I was the whole time.

7:45Kate Berlant:I'm surprised with your usual lying. You know what I'm saying? that you didn't know because i was thinking i go grab a phone you know and i look at it i go and well i was talking to myself i go for all they know i'm not feeling well that's what i could be in the class and suddenly go i'm nauseous i have a headache i'm surprised you didn't do illness as power move out well i don't fake illness i never say i'm sick when i'm not that's a true you know like um that's why i take shame-free naps i don't want to have to manifest hideous depression to earn a nap. So good.

8:15Jacqueline Novak:No. Oh God. The freezer cube. No more. Okay. It's like edamame matcha. I'm going to fucking barf. Okay. Anyway. But point is I didn't leave and I also, it wasn't a clean door. It's like curtains. So I didn't, it couldn't just open the door. I was looking, managing folds in the curtain. I go off to try to leave them. I get lost in the curtain. That's going to create more of it. I'm not going to find where it naturally parts.

8:37Kate Berlant:You were like, how do I get out from the curtain space?

8:39Jacqueline Novak:yeah just like it's not a door it's a curtain and i and i just i stayed and it was fat and what actually the thing that really annoyed me the most is how much it wasn't a workout i go even if i'm doing the dance it's like this is like my 82 my almost 82 year old mother would be a workout for her and i'm not saying it like i'm somehow when you're learning the choreo it's slower but

8:57Kate Berlant:then if the last half hour of the class is you doing hitting the moves over and over again but but listen we're hitting the move it just trust me like heart rate a little bit elevated but this

9:06Jacqueline Novak:was not and i go guys no this is not well if you're gonna dance you better be getting the

9:10Kate Berlant:heart rate up right that's what you're doing exactly well i thought it was gonna be more

9:13Jacqueline Novak:just like free like just classic aerobics like and because that would get your heart rate up

9:17Kate Berlant:real fast follow along dancing yeah not literally my my lovely lady bumps like doing like black-eyed

9:26Jacqueline Novak:peas choreo and everyone's being really sweet so i'm so god bless everyone but the point is having fun people were having fun which lifted me up there was one other girl and she got there and of my heart broke for her because i saw that she had the mat and she had her little hand weights she thought it was a regular class and i'm like oh she's in for a rude fucking awakening and i saw her kind of going wait what and then and then when it started and she was her and i were so half-assed doing the choreo we're like no like and i was like i almost want my god i know because it was just like no no you hate it because you find it embarrassing like a test no no embarrassment i I just, I don't, I, you have trouble picking up the choreo.

10:06Kate Berlant:So it's not trouble. Yeah.

10:07Jacqueline Novak:I don't it's really hard to describe. I just really shut down around it. I think it is like, feels like school. It feels like math. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah, I want to fucking do this. And I love dancing, but it's like, I don't want to do that. Anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway. So the funnier thing that happened to me yesterday. So Jacqueline, so Jacqueline and eavesdroppers, I don't know when this happened, but a while ago I started following this guy on Instagram. I think Like I saw him giving like medical advice, something cute gay guy. His name is Dr. Max. Shout out Dr. Max. He's a pediatrician.

10:39Jacqueline Novak:Okay. And as we all know, I don't have children. Okay. So I've been following this pediatrician now for a couple of years and he has a beautiful. Why?

10:48Kate Berlant:I mean, you know, he's a pediatrician. Just, just, you're like, he knows the human body. Who cares that I'm not a kid? I don't know why.

10:55Jacqueline Novak:Or are you trying to slowly pave the way to him being my pediatrician?

10:59Kate Berlant:Yeah.

10:59Jacqueline Novak:Yes. So here's what it is. So I'm going, well, if I have kids, that's my pediatrician. You're scouting now. Actively. So I go, well, if I have kids, that's my pediatrician. And I've locked in that he's a pediatrician. And so I've been following him. He has, and him and his husband, gorgeous, cute baby daughter. They live in this insane house. So sweet. They have a big bunny. They have rat. They have, you know, lambs. They're feeding the lambs milk. It's like very idyllic and sweet. And he, I really like his vibe. I just, I like it. And I was like, and I've been very like, that's my pediatrician.

11:28Jacqueline Novak:And like, it's really great for me to see like gay parents or whatever. Okay. That's okay. Put that aside. But I'm literally showing Naomi. I'm like, look, Dr. Max's baby. Like I'm, I'm very like locked in and it's not like he has an overwhelming following. Like, you know, he's, he's relatively nice. She's local LA. Okay. I am at none other than Ojai El Roblar, my favorite hotel. And I'm there and I look in, I'm sitting outside. I look in, who do I see at the complimentary breakfast? Dr. Max is standing there and I go, no, no, no. know and by the way i'm a powerful manifester and this is the this is the proof of it i look out there's the baby um but the husband i believe his name jay i see them go oh my god it's the beautiful family i without even hesitating rise from my chair go in it's like 9 a.m i go oh my god i said i'm so sorry i'm just i'm a fan i follow you and he recognized me from he was like oh he's like i know you or something he's so warm great i give him my life story in like three minutes i'm like i'm like i'm like yeah i'm like i froze my ex last year like i don't know wow you

12:28Kate Berlant:gave me at 42 i gave him everything i got i was always a fan but you know not anymore you know or whatever i gave him my whole fucking life of course you gave him that you had fabulous i'm like

12:37Jacqueline Novak:i'm like just love the stuff love you know i was like i need i was being so manic i just had coffee and i was so excited to see him something oh hi too makes me manic because i get so happy i'm a

12:46Kate Berlant:i'm a i'm a i'm powerful i'm manifesting you i'm manifesting you i don't know uh-oh sperm donor

12:51Jacqueline Novak:careful careful i'm looking i i like went right and a tear my eyes were just naturally tearing because of like the environment and allergies a tear i go i froze my eggs last year a tear rolls down my cheek i go i'm not crying keep going with the monologue he really received me in a beautiful elegant way i really he just has a i'm sorry there was a light about him he's really fab so then we're chatting we're chatting he's being so cute he's like it's actually you know our daughter's first birthday that's why we're here i'm like well now i'm really crying you know know it was a whole thing so then he's like he's like well we're having um and because i was there i was doing a fundraiser show for churla coalition for humane immigrant rights and that's still happening guys in oh hi and they're gonna be ongoing and he goes oh i do you know a benefit for whatever we're talking he's like we're having an event at the house on sunday why don't you come by wow and i go ding ding ding all lights are green you're a pediatrician and so i go i'm like totally.

13:43Jacqueline Novak:So then on DM, he gives me the address. I happen to be attending a wedding shower that happens to be exactly two blocks away.

13:50Kate Berlant:By the way, you're really not having kids. I think this is the most I've ever heard this on this podcast. You know, you love to say like twins by Christmas and all these kinds of things about me, jackfruit in the morning with the kids or whatever. But the point is like, I think this is actually like, I don't know. If I were an eavesdropper, I'd be like, damn, there's going to be kids that were running around in the back of this fucking podcast pretty soon. Not pretty soon. I don't know. It's just, it's just interesting. It's like I've never heard more certainty.

14:12Jacqueline Novak:No, I know. I know. I know. The pediatrician talk. I know. I know. The pediatrician really – I know. Who knows? Who knows? But I'm getting downloads from the spirit world.

14:21Kate Berlant:Really? So – Well, now that you're reading Carolyn Mace, it's going to – it's only going to kick up.

14:27Jacqueline Novak:I know. And I'm doing – and we're going to talk about it. I'm doing these other guided meditations we're going to talk about. But listen. So I happen to be going to a baby shower, a wedding shower, a couple of blocks away. I go, the wedding shower ends at three. His event starts at three. I go, well, if that's not Gaia, what is? So I'm at the wedding shower and then I'm like, okay, I think I'm going to go, but I feel shy because I'm like, this is really kind of like, I don't have children and it's a pediatrician event.

14:55Kate Berlant:Like, but I was like, well, no, I'm just going to stop by. Wait, I forgot. What kind of event is it? It's not his birthday. I mean, his kid's birthday. I was a little bit unclear.

15:02Jacqueline Novak:I was a little bit unclear. so what it is is it's like apparently it's like a i guess like anyone could have gone that follows him it's like a pediatrician it's him and molly baz and it was like okay i'll tell you exactly what it said well it's a fundraiser for lucha um community center and then it says snacks drinks and honest conversation on parenting health and everything in between right so you go health and in between but by the way but the poster is him with his baby molly baz with her baby so i'm like and babies so i was like i'm just gonna float by also i was like i want to see the house because it's gorgeous so i go beautiful he lives in and this is me not revealing anything he talks about this is such a different place well this is beyond unusual because guess what he lives in and again this isn't me revealing inappropriate information i've heard him say this his house is literally where shirley temple lived when she was at the peak of her career it's a beautiful spanish like anyway the point is i go in it is babies obviously everyone no one is standing there without a baby I walk in, by the way, like black boots up to my knees, like witches of Eastwick fucking in there.

16:09Jacqueline Novak:I'm like, hi. And there was a check-in person that was like, hi. And I was like, oh, I'm just stopping by. So I go in. God bless Dr. Max. So sweet. He takes me over to a lamb. I feed a lamb with a baby bottle. No. Yeah. Which was incredible. I see the giant bunny. He has this huge giant bunny. It's unbelievable bouncing around. I mean, it really is like an idyllic. Like this is, if you have a kid, this is where you want to be. Okay.

16:31Kate Berlant:Wow.

16:31Jacqueline Novak:There's kids crawling everywhere. I see Molly Baz, I go, hi, I'm a freak, I'm a freak, I'm childless, I'm here. I start and then and then all of a sudden, I actually start knowing that. The point is, I left very quickly. I was there for eight minutes because there was a talk was about to start. I go, I'm not staying for the talk and me sitting there with pen and paper. I have a question about nursing. You know, it's like so insane. So I leave. And then I immediately I'm like flooded with this feeling of like, oh, because I said to him and to her, I was like, I was I was at an event just two blocks away.

16:59Jacqueline Novak:I was at a shower two blocks away.

17:00Kate Berlant:like it's not like i crossed town for it that would be a step too far you mean you got embarrassed

17:06Jacqueline Novak:yeah well absolutely because then afterwards i go oh my god i don't see myself this way but there's a way where it looks like could there anything be sadder than me there going well i i think i want their childless at the baby event like researching a pediatrician before i'm even trying to conceive like it's insane think that that's what you were doing well except for the fact that I couldn't stop saying it to Dr. Max and to Molly Baz and I go I go well I froze my eggs and so like her husband was like when if you had just been like I'm here I'm a friend or something or like you didn't have to contextualize I didn't have to say anything but instead I had to go I had to go uh-oh I'm a freak uh-oh I don't have kids what am I doing here did you say witches of east do we can point your boots did that happen no no I didn't point okay that's just for us okay that was just for you but I was like good but I was like oh my god and then as I was leaving I was

17:57Kate Berlant:like wait like like pointy boots like sorry pointy boots at a children's event i might

18:03Jacqueline Novak:watch the kids it's a hazard right in the eye fashion toe but i was describing it to a friend to a dear friend she was like only you would be too shy to leave the pilates class but not too shy to go to the pediatrician q a without a child just because i've got my eyes set on him well i

18:22Kate Berlant:I think it speaks to some kind of real vulnerability. Some real vulnerability.

18:27Jacqueline Novak:What do you mean?

18:28Kate Berlant:You know, there was something, it was serious for you.

18:31Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, I think so. I think that, yeah.

18:34Kate Berlant:I don't know. But to me, it's like I've seen you leave, of course, the ghost tour, you know, that you made me go. The daytime one. Okay, it made me go. That's a big one. Never again. Went on a change to the daytime one. So sorry. I'm so sorry. I really can't believe it. I'm in minutes unimpressed by the theater of the ghost tour. she's like she's like i need a grain bowl or something she's like i need protein i was hungry i just can't win them it's really crazy you know whatever it doesn't matter point is point is almost 10 years you know you like us all we all have an interesting mix of contradictions where you try to say something about someone but oh there's the example of the very opposite

19:14Jacqueline Novak:in them you know it's really true it's really true you know scared to go to the pool alone classic jocelyn jocelyn was giving me strength to go to the pool alone because

19:27Kate Berlant:and i still have that you're an actor you like i know you know how to embody i mean maybe you just didn't have a visual in your head of like like you didn't have an archetype of like a woman at a hotel who's like going to have a dip cool

19:40Jacqueline Novak:down get it get out like you needed a little narrative like maybe yeah I I actually the day was like I need to go because you know what I've never done I mean Jacqueline you and I for work we travel alone all the time right but never because like for pleasure like it's too like something about that really is like do you dream of like I'm going to Spain for a week alone okay remember Paris yeah well there was gonna be one night that was gonna be my night and then I

20:11Kate Berlant:don't have to get into it in full now and I think we did in the past but I'm just saying I think it's funny because it's like I quite certainly do because it was like I studied I had this idea that I was gonna go and I was doing all this work and I was away from Chris like I was on this solo journey I go to London before my show and then it was like I have family there it was like you know I was so not alone there yeah whatever and I was really locked in on this like journeying to Paris alone and spending a night or two and then and I was like yeah but anyway so yes I don't even consider I'm trying to think if there's anything that I'm uncomfortable going to alone let me think about that or like even it's a thought like really I'm gonna be alone there no but I can be alone

20:52Jacqueline Novak:here's what it is you can I can I can go to a party alone I can go to an event alone I can go like it's more what is it well because you're not alone once you get to the party right exactly

21:03Kate Berlant:In other words, you're comfortable socializing. The performance takes over.

21:07Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

21:07Kate Berlant:Right. But yeah, restaurant alone is really heavenly. It's heavenly. I've done that a bit.

21:15Jacqueline Novak:And it has so much dignity to me.

21:16Kate Berlant:It's so. It's cool. It really is cool. And if I'm reading a book, it's not about trying to show off that I'm not waiting for a man. Like there's a self-containment that is essentially a brag. Totally. Now, if you feel like you can't pull it off because your eyes are going to be darting around nervously. But to me, it's like I feel the most me in a way when I'm alone in public space. You know what it is? I think being alone in public space allows me to be experienced in my interior, which I like. I can occupy myself and my own thoughts, blah, blah, blah. I enjoy that sitting there thinking whatever whether it's journal or just thinking and I think the containment of being in public space fills something in that actually pronounces my interior in a way that feels like healthier or something it's not expanding to fill the room yeah when you're alone in a room right so I feel really like like actualized no it's cool like I know exactly who I

22:22Jacqueline Novak:am when I'm sitting alone in a restaurant sitting alone in a restaurant is one thing that's fun I just did that when I was in New York. Yeah. And I was at a, I pulled up, I was sitting at Nine Orchard, which is, you know, fantastic. And I think I'm going to be staying there again. And I pull up at Dimes Deli, sitting there having pozole. And I'm sitting there alone and I go, wow, look at me. No, it is a flex. It is a flex. And then what happens, I end up having extraordinary, I end up getting friendly chatting with the guy, you know, who works there, who I've always, who I've never, you know. It's like things happen.

22:53Jacqueline Novak:It's great. But the point is going to Spain, I have this thing, I need to go to Spain alone. I need to do the pilgrimage, whatever it's called, the walking pilgrimage.

23:02Kate Berlant:I go, what am I going to do?

23:04Jacqueline Novak:I'm going to live my whole life and not do a walking pilgrimage alone? Like, well, that seems horrendous. But I fear being brutalized. You know what I mean? It's scary. Like, would you do a walking tour? Would you do a pilgrimage in the mountains alone?

23:22Kate Berlant:Oh, okay. Okay, you're talking a true, you're like on a nature path.

23:26Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, I'm not talking having a night alone at the burn and die. Okay, I'm talking about.

23:30Kate Berlant:No, no, but I am asking specifically what you're referring to. Like, are you referring to something specific in Spain?

23:34Jacqueline Novak:Yes, I'm referring to the, what's it called? The pilgrimage.

23:37Kate Berlant:Right, okay. You're not just talking about.

23:38Jacqueline Novak:I've only known a man to do it alone. Right. It's very famous. Of course, the Camino de Santiago. Most famous pilgrimage in Spain. A network of ancient routes. Da, da, da. Yeah, four to five weeks start. Why aren't you doing that one? I think there's one that you can do in like a week. And then it's supposed to be unbelievable. Maybe you and I should do it together, Jacqueline. No, you do it. You walk and there's little hostels along the way that like it's like a thing and they take you in.

24:07Kate Berlant:No, if it's a thing and it's a pilgrimage, then it sounds like something.

24:10Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, like a rape on the Santiago. I'm sure there's research there.

24:13Kate Berlant:I'm sure there's Reddit threads. I'm sure there's a subreddit about this specifically. For women. You're exactly right. So you can do some research and it might be very, it might be completely set up for this. Maybe I have to do it. Maybe I have to do it, Jacqueline, before I have my daughter.

24:33Kate Berlant:That's what I'm going to do.

24:38Kate Berlant:Careful, sweetie, you might get a son.

24:41Jacqueline Novak:I know. By the way, I'm open to a son. Yeah. In fact, I think it's going to be a son. Because Esther Kavitsky came around on it? No, no, no. I mean, I'm sorry, because I just saw her posting. Psychics have told me.

24:51Kate Berlant:She was posting about being like, um, disgusted by the idea of having a son the entire time. I talked to her about this.

24:56Jacqueline Novak:She was so sad about having a son. The second she met him, she loved him. She's like, love it. Well, I had this happen. I had this happen to me recently with someone where they were like, they were like, oh, son's the best. And I actually really appreciate what she said because it was so fucking honest and real. She goes, it's great. It's like the boyfriend you never have. It's like, you know, it's like. That's really funny. Yeah. I was like. About like a five-year-old? Like he's like. A baby.

25:18Kate Berlant:No, like, yeah, like the baby's like the boyfriend you never had?

25:21Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. That's interesting. You're like, oh, finally, a little man just for me. Like, finally, a man who can fucking step up. I mean, that's what a lot of them are doing with their sons. What? They're healing. They're trying to recreate a relationship with a man that somehow can, you know, fix the broken ones. I don't know why I find that surprising.

25:47Kate Berlant:Because like all direction of those things, like I don't know why, like I don't know what that is. That's interesting.

26:04Jacqueline Novak:So you're curious about Raycon, Kate? I really want to try Raycons because I, as we know, I do a lot of grounding walks.

26:13Kate Berlant:so uh if you're curious what's happening right now is well this message is sponsored by raycon so yeah kate likes getting outside right going on walks outside it's nice to have something that

26:25Jacqueline Novak:helps you stay focused on your walk without distractions i'm really excited about raycon's everyday earbuds classic the active noise cancellation helps block out background noise so you can stay in your own zone, listening to music, listening to, I don't know, poog, taking calls. I really need that. You want the sound to be clear and immersive, but also the kind of tone where you're able to also stay in the moment, be focused.

26:50Kate Berlant:Oh, well, I know you go on your walks. I'm just dying to listen to more books while I stroll. I want binaural beats. I want it all. I need a new headphone life. Earbuds classic. That's what I'm looking at. Multipoint connectivity. What does that mean? Two devices at once, Kate. What the hell? Not to mention the super comfortable ergonomic design. That stays put no matter what I'm doing, because guess what I'm doing? Headstands. Seriously, I need to be able to hear cues while I'm in a headstand. And the new colors, I know you're particularly excited of a blush violet, but cool mint really calls to me.

27:23Kate Berlant:I hadn't seen earbuds in a cool mint shade. I don't know if ever. And I don't know, it feels like an accessory that actually fits me.

27:32Jacqueline Novak:Raycon delivers the same premium audio quality as big brands, but guess what? Half the price. Add in over 3 million happy customers and a 30-day happiness guarantee, there's no reason to overpay.

27:43Kate Berlant:I would even say zero reason. The Everyday Earbuds Classic are the perfect addition to your everyday routine. Go to buyraycon.com slash poog to get 15 % off. Thanks Raycon for sponsoring.

28:01Jacqueline Novak:Listen, Mother's Day is coming up. Loaded day for all of us. We're all in very different situations on this planet and interstellarly.

28:10Kate Berlant:Nonetheless, what about, you know, not putting all this emphasis on making the day grand, but instead, what about giving them something? Something lasts all year.

28:20Jacqueline Novak:By the way, I'm not kidding. I want to give this to my mom. Well, this is the thing, Kate. This is a mom gift. that can help your mother reflect on her life with a fresh perspective. It gives your whole family the gift of her stories. So what you do, StoryWorth can each week send her a question about her life. She responds however she wants, writing back over email or web voice note recording or a guided phone call. There are no apps, logins, or tech hassle.

28:47Kate Berlant:It's cuing her every week in an easy way to give you a little something and then it all comes together. Do you understand? So it allows your mother an opportunity to focus on the joy of remembering and reflecting, right? So what happens is you get each story as she tells it. And here we go. You ready? I know. What? What? Who cares? Why? After a year, StoryWorth compiles it all. Families have used StoryWorth to create over a million books. 50 ,000 five-star reviewers agree. A treasure your family will love. Now, I do think there's something to that kind of, you know. Me too. A little something each, not sitting down.

29:23Kate Berlant:Who's ever going to sit down and do it, but a little something each week.

29:26Jacqueline Novak:No, I'm very, very curious about this.

29:28Kate Berlant:You buy it once and you'll be able to give story worth memoirs to family and friends all year. And yeah, there's new features for those who've tried it in the past. Full color book copies. You can get your Mother's Day gifts for, oh, you can get it for a mom, a grandma, any mom figures in your life. This year, give mom a gift that helps her reflect on her life with fresh perspective. and gives your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's Day is Sunday, May 10th.

29:53Jacqueline Novak:Order right now and save up to$20 at storyworth.com slash poog. Storyworth.com slash poog. Storyworth.com slash poog.

30:05Kate Berlant:Guess who's back on looking up rugs? It's exhausting. It's a sickness. I mean, it's a, you know, I look at, it's just like when I was a child. I stare at colors and I go, you know, every color is nice. Of course. You stare at it. No, it's impossible.

30:23Jacqueline Novak:So you're going a blue rug. You're staring at it. You go, beautiful.

30:25Kate Berlant:And then I always have this thing where I go, am I going to get sick of that color? Like, is that color going to start to annoy me?

30:31Jacqueline Novak:Just get one. Just get one. Get one and lose. And move forward. Because this is what, again, me with my red Nordic knots, I go, red with a diamond. You just get it. You move through it. And by the way, this is an announcement. This is an update. I got the nightstands for those who have been listening. I got the nightstands. I go, you know what? Fuck it. Because what am I going to do? Spend the next five months. So you got the matching nightstands. Meanwhile, my shit is piled up next to my bed like a rat. I'm a rat looking for lotions and digging every night. That sounds kind of cozy. And then what I did, which was unbelievable.

31:02Jacqueline Novak:And this, I go, well, now I want an award. I did it. I called Spectrum. I had them come. I had them move the Wi-Fi to another room. It's no longer behind the bed. And now I have room for the nightstand.

31:12Kate Berlant:That's great for you, Kate. I'm really proud of you. I love you. Because it was annoying. It was bothering you and you changed it. And you got it changed. I haven't finished my project of drilling the back of my nightstands out so that I can have the plugs, you know, the charging station inside.

31:33Jacqueline Novak:Oh, you know, it's really exciting that I got going.

31:36Kate Berlant:So, you know, my guy, okay, that, you know, I fell off for a while. I didn't take it with me abroad. I mean, not abroad, on tour. Yes. For anyone who hasn't seen me in my V-Light, I will drop images in the newsletter. But yeah, it has penetrative light, near infrared light that gets into the skull. But anyway, I've been using it now that I'm back. And I've got it now attached to this Anchor battery pack, okay? So I can freely roam the house plugged in.

32:05Jacqueline Novak:With it going. I need to get a new remote battery. And I sit out front, neighbors walk by, they glance. I'm sure.

32:11Kate Berlant:And I laugh at them. okay i go no i'm not ashamed the extent to which if i don't get serious about getting my brain into my brain waves into a state of coherence yeah if i don't get fucking serious about that shit now i know you've been meditating again by the way for three days and i'm back into wondering well i say one day is an accomplishment two days a miracle three well you're on your way to

32:40Jacqueline Novak:practice. And by the way, I still can today and I will. I'm in tags. Come with me. 10 minutes a day. I said five. I did five. I go five is actually too fast sometimes. Like 10 is just enough. The 20 twice a day. What are we fucking? I mean, it's just endless admiration to those who can. and I dream of that one day.

33:04Kate Berlant:I think you have to, I think you, like the times where I briefly have been doing any sort of practice, you know, hardcore, right? Like, like some like meditation or something like briefly, I mean, years ago, but there's a reason you're doing it. Something has brought you, right? Unless you're, you have a long, long practice, but like, if you don't and you do it for any period, it's like, I think there is like, you know, you read a book and you are fucking convinced that this is, this is, you know, it's like real, at least for me, it's like, I read a book that tells me and I'm like, I have to, I have to.

33:40Kate Berlant:And that holds for a while. And sometimes I have to be re indoctrinated in the why, because it starts to just feel abstract.

33:47Jacqueline Novak:So that's where I am right now. I'm a scrolling. I deleted Instagram this morning and I go, I'm at least doing seven days off, but I don't feel like I don't know your scrolling relationship.

33:58Kate Berlant:I feel like you're not on there. Well, I don't – because the thing is like you have to get on there and like repost some shit, you know, fucking tour dates or poog or something or whatever. It's like – so you do have to get on there. That's why I almost think – I think your like extremism with – and I've said this before. Your extremism with the back and the forth and the deleting and the whole thing, right? It's kind of just like you're choosing almost with the deletion that you're going to like – Relapse harder later. Relapse hard and then delete again and that's how you do it. you know what I mean it's sort of like versus it stays on my phone and I've learned well I've done

34:34Jacqueline Novak:that I've gotten to that point where it was on my phone right and I was just like no we're not doing it like someone I mean like oh years and years ago I remember hearing about this like who like

34:44Kate Berlant:quit cigarettes by like they just like had a pack of cigarettes sitting on their coffee table that's cool that's kind of how I know it's like it's there I could have it any day and I'm choosing not to

34:52Jacqueline Novak:that's what I did with smoking again I mean I was I was much younger and I wasn't but I I mean I I smoked a pack every couple of days because I was cool when I was, you know, 18, 19, 20, New York City. Yeah.

35:05Kate Berlant:It's funny. Like, you know, it'd probably shock a lot of people in a way to picture you like that. This crowd. God, smoking was so fucking cool. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a blast.

35:16Jacqueline Novak:It's like, I feel happy for people when they go, I want to go smoke a cigarette. I'm like, fucking, yeah. Going out there. God. But I haven't missed it. I haven't had a drag of a cigarette since I was 23. And similarly, I just was like, I'm stopping. And I was like, and if I want to smoke a cigarette, I can smoke a cigarette. And that's what allowed me to truly never smoke a cigarette again.

35:37Kate Berlant:Yeah. Because I allowed it. You know, I allowed it. When I come in, I get, you know, resist, persists.

35:43Jacqueline Novak:Exactly. Anyways.

35:46Kate Berlant:Let me pull, let me pull.

35:47Jacqueline Novak:Oh, oh, oh. But I did want to say to you about Carolyn Mays.

35:51Kate Berlant:You're missing one of the greatest things ever, which is the morning and the evening meditations. What do you mean? What do you mean?

35:58Jacqueline Novak:So this is, it's, okay.

35:59Kate Berlant:So, you know, she talks about like spiritual, your spiritual bank account. Some of them, she talks about this. Okay. Where it's like, you know, let's say you have a hundred energy units per day, you know, and how you use those and spend those. You need to do your energy, like banking, like you're, like you're, you're balancing your checkbook. Like you need to, you know, she, she says like, look at how you used your energy that day.

36:20Jacqueline Novak:Okay.

36:20Kate Berlant:And where did you, and she's like, some of you are getting up and like doing an automatic deposit of 10 units into having a grudge against your father or whatever. Okay. So every day auto deposit, right?

36:32Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

36:32Kate Berlant:And her whole thing is, you know, energy and, and, and looking at it as in this fundamental, you know, power, right. And, and what it is and like, where did I lose power

36:44Jacqueline Novak:today?

36:44Kate Berlant:Okay. And so, you know, spells, she talks about spells, like spell casting, like, you know, like, where did you fall under the, where did you give it? So she's like, she's like, you know, she always like would say this thing about like these women she's like i knew women who was like

36:57Jacqueline Novak:lives where i've told you it's like lives were ruined by like the statistic that went around

37:02Kate Berlant:that was like you know you're more likely to get struck by lightning than married after 30 whatever okay i mean this is a while ago but you know like like she's like i knew women like so this spell she's like that's spell yeah like a thing like that that gets in their head and changes their fucking life and how they're oriented towards their life that's not a spell you know what I mean real and that's not sucking power out of you whatever for you to you know buy into it so so it's like what are you automatically depositing what are you walking around carrying that is an automatic drain on your energy every day assuming you get a fresh hundred units you know a hundred energy dollars from god per day and then she says if you drain the 100 right she's like it's got to come from somewhere and it'll start to come from the flesh as in you know like it has to come from somewhere the energy will have to you know so then then she's talking about you know healing and and whatever right well by the way i and this is

37:58Jacqueline Novak:part of my moving the wi-fi out of the bedroom i really am i'm committing to phone out of the last few nights we've done no phone in the bedroom and even just the difference of waking up not going right for it oh god listen folks i repeat embarrassment no i know but keep it out of your room guys it's like oh i'm so sorry everyone no i do it for three days and i'm and i'm completely

38:19Kate Berlant:transformed unable to imagine well we need the people to run ahead and find the oasis of water drink it and come back and say the water is delicious we need it even if you're just a tiny

38:27Jacqueline Novak:bit ahead okay we need you we need a little guys running ahead i really jacqueline when i was in oh hi i met a hag this was beautiful i met a hag named sydney she came up to me at rory's other place shout out i was having incredible food there um and she's like i'm a hag whatever she's like i'm sent you she has a website or a like a it's called the sonic vessel and they are guided meditations and they move right altered state the idea is that they actually provide like altered state yeah okay and that like eventually basically binaural beats altered perception yeah euphoria out of body and that people are like having full like experiences trips and like i looked at the people are like i saw my dead relative who you know like they're going in and okay so we're gonna try that the sonic vessel so i'm i'm so in i did one and i was like and she said she's like don't get discouraged if you're not immediately having some kind of sensation or realization she said it takes a few she was like but the there's like six of them and the idea is like do one a few times and move on to two and i'll tell you this the first one the very least it's half an hour long the very least i felt altered extremely relaxed there's like humming so you're like um like you have and it's and the music you're humming yeah very very good by the way very good it's right there for you beautiful vibration hum i think she said like someone from Arcade Fire helped her make the instrumentals.

40:00Jacqueline Novak:It's really beautiful. I'm going to send it to you, the Sacred Vessel. Because Jacqueline, it's like astral projection and shit.

40:08Kate Berlant:Hell yeah. Well, you and me do it at the same time. Got to train the mind. We could go and meet up

40:14Jacqueline Novak:halfway between our locations. Particularly now I'm getting into the alien stuff. Yeah. Anyway, shout out to Sydney. Ended up going with my mother who's never done karaoke in Ohio. She's always been like, I want to try. We walked by a dive bar. They were having karaoke night. Sydney was in there. No. Called us in. Bought us Prosecco. We did karaoke. We were there for hours. It was one of the most beautiful experiences. I'll treasure it forever. Yes. I cannot believe it. Like 12 people. And was your mother having fun? Yes. Oh, my God. It was euphoric. My mother was like, my belief in humanity is completely restored.

40:44Jacqueline Novak:It's like so sweet. Just going to a random dive bar. Everyone's really supportive. It's like the same 10 people. It's like a group of, it was like 10 people. It's like 15 max. A guy brought his trumpet. Oh, my God. And did a trumpet karaoke. And then somebody was singing. and then he from the back of the room was accompanying on trumpet. I mean, it was like the sweetest thing. It's beautiful. Shout out to Sam's Place in Ohio. Anyway.

41:04Kate Berlant:Yeah, when people sing or when people like, you know, like when there's a willingness to sing.

41:11Jacqueline Novak:Oh, it's beautiful. When you see people singing because my mom's like, but I'm not a good singer. It's not about that. Have you heard of what karaoke is? It's not about that. And then you really see people and some people you see their soul.

41:24Kate Berlant:Yeah.

41:25Jacqueline Novak:Like they're brave. I'm up there and I'm going I'm still trapped in there You mean you're playing, you're joking Yeah, it's too scary, I could never And some of them get up there and they bare their Oh my god, they bare their fucking souls And Jacqueline, this woman did a rendition of What's Going On And she fucking rocked my world You mean What's Up? She was like, what?

41:43Kate Berlant:Oh no, What's Going On And I said, hey Poog song What's Going On She was unreal Our song before it became a social media trend or whatever

41:55Jacqueline Novak:oh yeah guys she was she and she had her soul out she had her soul out folks and guess what it was gorgeous and it was yearning and it was real but wait i do want to close this for you

42:07Kate Berlant:which is that so the energy units right and how are you so okay yeah so and there's all these different ways that you might you know you know and so what she does is take you through the seven energy centers okay chakra based whatever okay morning and evening and this recording's like 30 years old at this point like even her voice sounds a little different like it's like okay i love her and and we need to write to her yeah well she did some messages were passed through and then she sent me a note saying she heard that the poog you know called her like a badass like and i was like i actually called her a hard-ass spiritual leader even funnier you know like she's like a hard ass, which is why we like her.

42:50Whatever.

42:50Kate Berlant:We're going to do like, in addition to the aristocrats episode, which by the way, we never got around to. Okay. We're doing like a seven parter begging, begging. So anyway, so, so just hear this. Okay. So it's, it's not like trippy. Okay. It's very grounded. Okay. And she takes you through the energy centers, through the truth of each energy center. Okay. And through the cosmic truth, because there's like, you know,

43:16Jacqueline Novak:Not the mansions, the energy centers.

43:18Kate Berlant:No, but she does, you know, she draws comparison across all of, you know, the seven various traditions. So she does draw that comparison, but not in this, in this, it's short, it's probably like 20 minutes. There's an instrumental behind it. When she goes through each center, I mean, she goes like with the second chakra. She's like, I feel like she's like, you know, money. Okay. Like it's specific. Or she's like, how many people crossed your path today? Like who, who do you feel unable to forgive? Okay.

43:46Jacqueline Novak:It's very, where did you lose your energy today? No one bitch. Okay. I can forgive everyone. I forgive everyone. Do you have the, do you have? Forgive them all.

43:57Kate Berlant:Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, I think it's, I think it's more like, like, yeah, I fundamentally believe that where it gets you is like in more like little moments or something like today.

44:08Jacqueline Novak:All the little moments. And by the way, this is when the group workout class is actually deeply. Yeah. Meaningful. like meaningful because part of why I like going because I don't like working out alone I just fucking can't do it or something right but it's like there's the getting out of bed thing but there's also the thing of encountering the other and there's stuff like for example it's small right you're in a class there was this woman and I go she's a little weird like something you know I was just like I was like something about hers off or something and then I thought maybe she was looking at me it's one of those weird things you're in the mirror it's like and then I'm like oh my god I could seem like like I in my mind I was like is she mean right so strange but this is These are the things that we cast on people.

44:44Jacqueline Novak:I know. And I go, you could easily cast on that. I mean, so here's a girl. I go, oh, she's kind of mean. I saw her a couple of times. I go, I'm a little scared of her or something. Today, she comes up to me so warm. We had a little chat before class. And I'm like, that's the face of God. Yeah. She's not mean. She's an angel. And I go, and just like that, anyone's going to look at me and think I'm mean or something. Or she's off. Yep. I don't like her. And it's like, no. No. No. Oh,

45:12Kate Berlant:kindness should have been my business. Sorry. It's been ringing in my head since Christmas.

45:16Jacqueline Novak:Well, by the way, the Caroline Mays thing that I've been saying a lot is like, dear God, make me a vessel for grace. Dear God, make me a vessel for grace. Run through me. And during challenging situations. Run grace through me.

45:24Kate Berlant:Let me be a channel.

45:25Jacqueline Novak:I go, please, God, let me be a channel for grace. Let me be a channel for grace.

45:28Kate Berlant:Please let me be a channel for grace, God. And also pray for the graces, okay?

45:34Jacqueline Novak:Pray for discernment, right? We got bi-libation. Pray for patience, okay? MDMA therapy. Okay.

45:43Kate Berlant:So, wait, wait, but let me give you a little more. So she takes you through. So in the morning, it's, you know, your energy in terms of how you're about to approach your day. And then at the end of the day, it's how did I use it? You know what I mean? And looking at it and clearing the, balancing the fucking checkbook. And so you can go into the next day and go, am I going to lose my energy today again at the, you know, when someone cuts me off in traffic? Yep. Yep. Okay. Am I going to lose? Cause, cause she's saying it's like, to me, it's like, there's this plentiful nature of that. You get this, these hundred units every day.

46:16Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

46:17Kate Berlant:And so it's like, there's, there's like a generosity there. There's a thing to be thankful for. And then, and then to go, how am I going to use it? And then the other thing I thought, you know, I remember cause a lot of the stuff I started reading when I was like really asking questions about, you know, energy and like having physical energy, like kind of like, you know, mental health, like depression, whatever. And I was like, you know, what I kind of came to reading these kinds of things, but energy, I was like, let's just say there's an unfixable sort of depletion in me energy wise. Let's say I have, let's say it's 80 % less energy in a core way than other people.

46:53Kate Berlant:Okay. Which by the way, like people do in that people have all sorts of fucking shit, right? Illness, you know, things that take up their energy that they can't control, you know, what I mean? Whatever. I was like, even if it was not this greedy, make sure I get all of my energy. It was almost like, let's just say like, there was nothing I could do about it. And I only had $20 instead of a hundred dollars of energy every day. Well, like imagine the difference in your life about how you chose to spend those 20 energy units. So who cares? Like, you know, the baseline, but then, you know, larger, you are looking at things that go in like, you know, all right, like where you know it's the it's these subscriptions you don't know you have your soul has is taking out 10 a month.

47:35Jacqueline Novak:That's so funny as like a modern what are you auto subscribe to that you do not consent to. And she will do that like she'll do like

47:39Kate Berlant:a Hagrid Inn and I was like familiar with this they were pointing out because like Carolyn has this thing about the internet inner the internet. Oh the internet. You know what I mean she like has these things and it's like it's like the best. How old is she? We'll post it

47:56Jacqueline Novak:I'm not sure. Where does she live? We got to figure it out.

48:03Jacqueline Novak:I... Yeah. I mean, the phone thing. I'm wildly scraping with this. This tool. Be careful.

48:10Kate Berlant:All in any flesh.

48:13Jacqueline Novak:My facialist woman that I went to, she was like, don't gua sha. Just for me. Because of my redness.

48:18Kate Berlant:Right. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. That was hard to hear. I mean, I have a lot of redness, too. You know, I mean, that's... You know, they're like, don't like... don't do like heat i'm like well i love a sauna so i guess i'll be a red-faced sauna girl and that's fine um and i still maintain that from a distance rosacea on the cheek i mean it's halfway a blessing it's halfway rouge and i'm you know it's different than it being everywhere blah blah

48:44Jacqueline Novak:but mine's mostly the cheap so how dare i um should we pivot to products yeah let me just

48:54Kate Berlant:look around. I actually have a box. I have a box from Sephora. Oh, anyway, but it is going to be product corner time, which huge feature for the premium subscribers only that comes next. Otherwise we say goodbye to our, our dear free feeders. We love you. Free feeders and Kate. Love you. Love you.

49:15Jacqueline Novak:That was Poo. If you enjoyed Poo, please subscribe, rate, and review. If not, we will press charges. Thank you.