REMIX: Kate's Lies

8:44Jacqueline Novak:by the way I'm actually

8:46Kate Berlant:it looks really good the fact that this is what arrived see how useful is it that we ordered the same it's shocking okay let me just tell them what's happening okay Okay, so this, okay, at first glance, both me and Kate, listen, and I'm going to want to see, take a high quality photo with your phone. Okay, I'm going to do it right now. By the way, the burger looks delicious. That's not even relevant. This is a huge moment. This is about data.

9:08Jacqueline Novak:Oh, my God. So, these fries are seriously amazing.

9:12Kate Berlant:I'm interested because those fries look, you know, dark kind of.

9:16Jacqueline Novak:They're like a croissant. Okay, I'm taking a bite. Wow. Wait, this burger looks... Send me a photo. Okay, I did.

9:21Kate Berlant:You did? That sounded like a lie. It was a lie, folks. It was a bald-faced lie. And I don't know what the fuck she thought she was going to get away with there. Okay, send me a high-poly photo now.

9:41Jacqueline Novak:We're in the elevator going down, and my mom's being very sweet. There's a baby in a carriage. There's a baby in a carriage, a couple. My mom's going, oh, how old? Very sweet. The husband's sweet. The mom's kind of not having it. And then my mom was like, very like, oh, like lively restaurant, like something comment on just like, oh, you really have her out at like a booming place. And I go, you got to get them out early. You got to get them, you got to get them into the restaurants early. Oh, get them out. I wanted to say, and I was going to say this, but I thought maybe my mom would give me away.

10:12Jacqueline Novak:I wanted to go, my daughter, two months I had her at, I had her out and I wanted to so badly. It's like we're talking about the lying.

10:20Kate Berlant:You're, you're, you're like, you're ready. But I suggested, the way that I said it was suggesting my kid.

10:27Jacqueline Novak:I wanted to talk to her mother to mother.

10:30Kate Berlant:You got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:33Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:35Kate Berlant:That's funny. That's a fun way to play, right? Where it's safe because it's merely an implication to a stranger in a brief moment. Yeah. I don't know, that I could almost, implication I think I could do without feeling like a bald-faced lie, is it? Or, I mean, because obviously there's people throwing around, it's a classic case, bold-faced, which feels more true. Bald-faced is just what? I get, like, I am nakedly lying, kind of. Lying, yeah. It's a bit of a nip it in the bud situation.

11:16Jacqueline Novak:so I was walking and because of my eyesight it's really happening where I'm not recognizing people or I see them and I'm like looking at them like they're strangers and they're looking at me and I go huh and I go oh it's my friend or someone I know so I was walking and I thought I saw someone walking toward me I did not want to run into not dramatic like and that's what's funny not like someone there's no one on earth I need to like actively avoid there's no one that I'm like oh fuck we're about to get into it like of course we all know that we're not dying to run into but I don't have anyone that would make me like cross the street.

11:45Jacqueline Novak:But you know what I mean? Yes. Actually, actually I crossed the street to avoid a good friend who I just wasn't. Well, that's,

11:50Kate Berlant:that's, yeah. I mean, if that's what you're talking about, then yeah. Like, no, no, no,

11:54Jacqueline Novak:But somebody is walking toward me. I think I know who it is and there's a bakery. I just gently, and I very realistically act as though, Oh yeah, I'm going to the bakery. I go into the bakery and then I start to pretend to look at a cake. Of course. And I, and I have, I have a full put in an order I have a full act out about buying a pie to avoid someone it might not have been them and I go that's gorgeous I go how um how much is that and she goes oh it's this much oh actually it's this much okay god it's great yeah okay um if I were going to order that like how much lead time I go into a full I take a picture of it of course I go I'm gonna send this to the birthday girl I go I'm gonna send this to the birthday girl I do a full and then I leave

12:38Kate Berlant:some people really like to me that makes total sense right yeah and even like although i probably with that level of engagement feel like psychically like i had to buy something almost like i know no one was in there it was very empty i wasn't like crowding no no no i don't mean like i almost just mean like like you were part of this drama with them like now you do know more about their pies now would you maybe consider buying a pie from this person a hundred percent So I see it as like, you know, to take in information of a business has value to that business. And so I still, I think there's, you stand on moral grounds here is all I'm trying to say.

13:17Kate Berlant:It's a transaction that is meaningful, even though it was built on a lie. You're still doing good business. You're still doing good business. I'll tell you this.

13:27Jacqueline Novak:If I had to buy a cake next week, guess where I'd fucking go. Okay.

13:31Kate Berlant:Exactly. Some people do no act outs. I have to believe. Some people must. No, some people that story makes no sense to them. Right. Like that's just a, that's a tool that is right there at any time. It's, you know.

13:44Jacqueline Novak:I've acted my way into, yeah, it's all, yeah, it's almost eerie when you realize what you can act your way into.

13:51Kate Berlant:I do it with like, with a meaningless transaction that's out of time. I don't usually invent other, like, I don't invent other specificity, like characters for some reason. Like there's like, I wouldn't have the courage almost to go birthday girl. Right.

14:07Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. Yeah.

14:07Kate Berlant:It's like, it's like, there's something like, I think it's all going to fall apart if I involve like another character. It's like, it's like, I believe like there's some, it has to almost be like an illusion that blows past and can go up in the dust. It's like, yeah.

14:21Jacqueline Novak:Don't anchor it to another. Yeah. Even though why not? It's just interesting.

14:32Jacqueline Novak:I was going down in my car, tiny hill. You know these hills in Los Angeles where no two cars in the mountains, in the hills. I go down. A car is coming up. Oh, I hate those words, by the way. And I start to go, fuck, fuck, fuck. I go, it becomes this whole thing. This car next to me. The point is, though. To just get by each other, you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to get by. So one person. But I came down. There was a car here. The point is, it was a gridlock hell situation. and I couldn't figure out how to maneuver it. And this car, there's a woman in this car and she's kind of looking at me going like, I can see her exclaiming like, go that way.

15:04Jacqueline Novak:She's not like, it's not really angry, but she's clearly frustrated with me, you know? And I'm seeing a lot of like this. No. And like, and I - No, but I'm - You can see the shadow of a cheek.

15:14Kate Berlant:I'm freaked out.

15:15Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, because I don't know. I'm like, and by the way, I get so close. There's a car here, windows down. There's a man in there I didn't even know. I thought it was a parked car, but it was a moving car. And he goes, they giving you a hard time? it was actually kind of hot he was like they giving you a hard time i was like yeah like i don't even know i was like so this whole thing finally i maneuver the car i do this whole thing i still think i think i mostly could have been better at the situation but it wasn't like i was fucking the situation yeah but i finally get down to her i roll down the window i go sorry i'm from

15:45Kate Berlant:new york this isn't my car always sorry i work nights okay i go this isn't even my car but it

15:51Jacqueline Novak:It was your car, right? I go, this isn't my car. I was in my neighborhood. I go, this isn't my car. I'm from New York. This is like my second day driving. You didn't. Or something. It's not my car. I think I said, I barely have a license. And the woman literally goes. You're an actor and you grew up here. Her face softens. She goes, totally cool. I go, well, who cares if I had to tell a little lie to make her relax?

16:13Kate Berlant:No, but it's not. What is it really? Make her relax. You'd already gotten through it, right? It was over. It was post-mortem. I apologize.

16:21Jacqueline Novak:I go, sorry I'm so bad at that. Born and raised in Los Angeles. This is my car. No. Sorry I was so bad at that. This isn't my car. I'm from New York.

16:28Kate Berlant:No, I mean, I know why it's better, but for whom?

16:31Jacqueline Novak:Both. Do you like how I hit that M at the end? Yeah, that was good. Okay, here's a really quick parking story. Tell me if I... I'm not done with your lie. I'm not done with your lie. Let me think about this.

16:39Kate Berlant:Lie is a strong word.

16:41Jacqueline Novak:I don't mean it negatively. Fabrication. I don't mean it negatively. I mean it neutrally. Someone called me a little liar the other day. I'll tell you about this lie. So this is a lie. But this is a lie. Tell me about this lie. This was interesting. What would you do if you're me?

16:56Kate Berlant:Okay, me. It's okay. Basically, the point is... How early in that before you actually talked to that woman were you concocting the story? Oh, moments before.

17:12Jacqueline Novak:Electrolytes are key. Salt is life. element is salt but it's also delicious addictively so lemonade probably my favorite flavor watermelon raspberry i don't want to brag but i was hung over today and guess what i actually hear it in my voice the gravel i did a pink lemonade element it was fabulous

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18:06Jacqueline Novak:Caffeine being added to element. I stopped in my tracks.

18:10Kate Berlant:Kate, you realize that caffeine doesn't actually give you energy, right?

18:14Jacqueline Novak:I love caffeine, but as you know, you got to be careful with the way you're ingesting caffeine.

18:20Kate Berlant:No, it just blocks the receptors that make you feel tired. That's a painful truth and one that, well, I guess Element is interested in helping us navigate.

18:30Jacqueline Novak:The combination of the hydration with the electrolytes element with the caffeine stabilizes you and it can fit into your day in an easy way versus your usual ways that you go about getting coffee or procuring caffeine.

18:45Kate Berlant:Look, I drink element because it all started with all the sweating and noticing that I felt better when I had an electrolyte drink during a deep workout or a sauna session.

18:56Jacqueline Novak:Isolated caffeine, the kind that's in a lot of energy drinks hits harder and drops faster because there is just nothing there to smooth the curve. Tea, however, works differently. The caffeine comes bundled with L-theanine and polyphenols. And the way that it exists like that naturally in the world is the point. That's what gives you a noticeably steadier feeling. There's less of a spike and less of a drop.

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20:18Jacqueline Novak:why plenty of room for two cars to go you know how it is people are pulling out sometimes you have to wait plenty of room cars pulling out here i'm about to pull in okay the point is i can't remember the exact configuration this was a couple months ago yeah the point is i wasn't in anyone's way and that i will and i was really yeah i just wasn't yeah so i'm waiting for this car to pull out this car here can easily get by right but i see this woman her car kind of doing this thing

20:48Kate Berlant:oh yeah kind of doing one of these what are you doing kind of doing one of these at me

20:52Jacqueline Novak:and then i go i was like and then she starts she starts literally going no motion like go and by the way which is almost comical because go where like this car is like there was nowhere to go and i really and i and i and by the way i was really aware of the fact i'm like fed i had i had protein like i wasn't angry yeah i wasn't starting to like i was just You were fed. I was fed.

21:16Kate Berlant:Yeah. You threw that out like a vampire?

21:18Jacqueline Novak:No. What? You're just like, well, I was fed, so da-da-da. I was like, what? I mean, I wasn't like in a moment of agitation. I was just like leave almost. But I was calmly looking around going, am I in someone's way? Let me really pull back here. Am I fucking? And I was like, I'm fucking not. I'm fine in this parking lot where I am.

21:38Kate Berlant:Well, this is a classic traffic drama, right? And I go, she's not fed.

21:42Jacqueline Novak:She's not fed. I can't go so I see her start going like this really like yelling in her car go

21:50Kate Berlant:are you stupid kind of thing go not one of these

21:53Jacqueline Novak:and so I go like this she doesn't go like that but she's like I go like this I literally go like this

22:00Kate Berlant:give her the peace sign

22:01Jacqueline Novak:no no she's facing me I go peace like this like I'm not fighting with you bitch yeah like cause by the way you see how quickly I throw that why don't you have lunch I had lunch so I'm fine you need lunch okay you're getting angry okay so anyway so wait this happens right yeah she finally goes by it's so weird oh she drives by me i purposely don't look into her car because i'm like i don't want to fight and by the way i was like i'm not looking it's over it's over i'm like yeah and i think maybe she i don't know what was going on but i was like she was on one something i don't know yeah and then i realized we're both parking and we're going to go into the supermarket it oh wow and i and i i didn't see exactly like i knew who she was but i was like i mean like i recognized i was like so whatever so i get in there i start doing my shopping i see her so so

22:50Kate Berlant:you knew each other enough no no like i saw like glasses i saw just like where i was like i would

22:55Jacqueline Novak:know her head yeah but i go in there that's the girl we know each other here we go here acquaintances vague acquaintance might be too even strong enough that worker social work like kind of but not we've never worked together but I just mean like enough where I was like and by the way I started to go well I didn't I gave her a peace sign and smiled kind of bitchy like like I know you're trying to fight with me but she must be embarrassed because she was the one that had the

23:35Kate Berlant:You're going, do I stand by this? Yes.

23:36Jacqueline Novak:Who had the fit. Yeah. And this is a bigger risk because she could see this.

23:41Kate Berlant:What is? What's the bigger risk?

23:43Jacqueline Novak:The show. She could see the show. Oh, shit. She could be watching this right now.

23:46Kate Berlant:Yeah.

23:46Jacqueline Novak:So I just want to say also, I'm not mad and it's fine. And maybe I should have. So here's what was interesting, though. I panicked. I felt scared.

23:54Kate Berlant:Are you getting more on the record in case, like, are you like filling in the story? Like, okay, I did leave something out, like, in case she comes. No, no, no.

24:01Jacqueline Novak:No, no. I don't think I've left anything out. and this can go in our in our law office we can do this in our with our law offices we can litigate this case oh yeah but like i was like but but but she enters my my my my aisle cortisol levels reaching 4 000 i mean i was like yeah this is terrifying hey no no i didn't no i took a fake

24:24Kate Berlant:phone call no you didn't yeah no here's a huge question about that because there's a risk

24:29Jacqueline Novak:there is a huge risk. She sees that it's just a black screen.

24:33Kate Berlant:Or not even, or like it pops on.

24:42Jacqueline Novak:Wait, wait, wait. I have to go to the moment of the diner. So imagine me. Okay. I'm in there. I'm flying high. I keep going eight hours away. I go, I'm saying people wait eight hours for this. And the food really is good. We have a booth. It's cozy. It's Christmas Eve, Jacqueline. The Rain is pouring outside.

24:59Kate Berlant:Were you, were you, were you, okay, good. No, they don't have our booth, right? Okay, that's got to be our booth. No, it's fine. It's fine. Even if we're up there, it's fine.

25:06Jacqueline Novak:Walked in seated immediately. You knew what you had? Okay. Oh, yeah. Well, I walk in and I go, and they go, here's the booth. Of course, reservation was 11. We arrive 11 at 1. Okay. And our guests, the two people we were getting were already there. I go, this is respect. Okay. Respect the reservation. I've been saying this for years. Respect the reservation. The 15-minute grace period is only for emergencies. You mean if you didn't book it, but you're the sort of guest of it?

25:29Kate Berlant:Both. And booking. Oh, respect the restaurant. Yeah, yeah. Respect the reservation. Yeah. So imagine me, Jacqueline, in this moment of mania, Christmas Eve, you can imagine it, right?

25:40Jacqueline Novak:Guess who's in the diner? Guess who's at the next, who's a couple booths over? Are you sitting down? And I want everyone, I want every hag to imagine.

25:50Kate Berlant:And then here it comes. I want to remember, because I wonder if I can call it up. It felt significant. Give it to me.

25:56Jacqueline Novak:No, I want to say, I want to say. No, yeah.

26:01Jacqueline Novak:Leonardo DiCaprio. No, no, no. I want everyone to imagine who would be. And I go, are you kidding me? And then the general manager who's kind enough to get me in, shout out, protecting her privacy. I don't know why. She goes, oh, yeah. Because she's talking about like people are coming. And of course, celebrities constantly are coming and kind of get a table. And she's going, I'm so sorry. Like, no. And she was saying, she's like, I really tried. Oh, she used an industry term for me. It made me so horny. She goes, I don't like to move the book.

26:31Kate Berlant:Oh, hell yeah. She said that. I go, and I said this to her and I meant it.

26:35Jacqueline Novak:Can I shadow you? Can I shadow you? I would be my, I want to shadow her for an afternoon. She goes, I don't like to move the book. And she name dropped a couple of big celebs. She goes, I didn't move the book for them. So you can imagine. So she goes, Leo's here. She said it? Oh, Christ in heaven. Yeah.

26:53Kate Berlant:The manager said it? From the back?

26:56Jacqueline Novak:Well, because I was like, I was like, what stars we got? What stars we got? You know, I'm being kind of loud almost. Where are you?

27:02Kate Berlant:No, to my face. In the booth. She's standing next to the booth. So she did it on the floor.

27:08Jacqueline Novak:No, no. And she doesn't do it like this. She actually, she wasn't like, guess what? Right. We were talking about this and moving the books and I go,

27:14Kate Berlant:that's amazing. And she goes,

27:15Jacqueline Novak:I don't want the books. She goes, I mean, you know, just now. I mean, Dr. Campion walked up and I go, well, I go,

27:20Kate Berlant:okay well i go excuse me what huh huh he's here he's right over there did you whip or did you stay calm i immediately go i just want to take you whip i stayed completely calm you kept her

27:30Jacqueline Novak:gaze going if he's here he's not leaving the next two seconds she was so calm so professional so whatever that i almost like it was like i couldn't believe what she was telling me i was like wait here right now she's like yeah and i was like oh so i go i need a look i'm not gonna here's what going to do i go give me the exact placement of him in the room got it i get up to do to go to the bathroom he's in i get up to do my big looking oh his girlfriends are at the table without him

27:57Kate Berlant:he's not there you go guess i'm gonna find him in line at the bathroom holy shit two bathrooms

28:02Jacqueline Novak:i walk up to the bathroom area one door opens a man walks out not leo you go i hear water in the other bathroom. I go, that's Leo.

28:11Kate Berlant:I go, that's Leo, baby. And I go, I'm going to wait. Okay. This is, this is, imagine this, imagine, cause you almost could have started the story. Matt, you know, when you're in a hallway, okay. Waiting for the bathroom and you know, there's someone in this one and you're waiting for it. Wait a second though. Wait, sorry. I got distracted realizing something. Are you standing there with an open bathroom that's now empty that you could enter in a closed bathroom that he's in. Yes. Yes. And I hear water. Yes. This is borderline stalking. One of the train thought experiments. Okay. Because, you know, I mean, this is like, what do you do?

28:45Kate Berlant:Right.

28:47Jacqueline Novak:This is what you do.

28:48Kate Berlant:It is upon you technically, right. To go straight into the bathroom that you were waiting for. Of course. Now, I'm assuming no one was behind you, obviously. No one was behind me. Because imagine this. Do you go, oh, you go ahead.

28:59Jacqueline Novak:I'm waiting for somebody. I'm waiting for a friend. No. So here's what I do. This is so embarrassing to admit it. You tie your shoe.

29:06Kate Berlant:I take out my phone and I begin to do a fake phone call. Like, I'm not going to go to the bathroom yet because I'm on a phone call. Because I go, why else? I go, it's raining outside. I got to take this work call.

29:16Jacqueline Novak:Why else am I in this hallway? Why else would I be waiting here with the open bathroom? So I'm hearing water. I'm hearing something. I go, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay, yeah. Well, you know, if you go to, if you, you know, it's in my email.

29:28Kate Berlant:You heard water and you go, did you go like, were you like. What's he doing in there? He would wash his hands that long. Or like, were you kind of like picturing him?

29:37Jacqueline Novak:I was just like, and then I'm kind of like, let's fucking go. Come on. So I'll tell you what happened.

29:42Kate Berlant:Oh, wait a second. Wait a second. Sorry. Talk about slow it down, slow it down. Okay. Because I just want to live in this.

29:47Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

29:48Kate Berlant:So many questions along the way. Right. I go, I go.

29:51Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

29:52Kate Berlant:Now you, there were two bathrooms in a hall. Right. And he's not at the table. That's all you know. Right. it's all i know how did you know it was his table pouring rain outside you know the girlfriend because i see his and you know who she is like okay so she's a famous model yeah yeah i just mean so you go he's here oh there's his girlfriends you know okay and you go now you didn't do a quick look through the windows okay pouring rain out right there's no business being out there so

30:19Jacqueline Novak:you're only assuming that he's in there yes exactly now it's a pretty good assumption but

30:25Kate Berlant:technically i don't know technically i don't know we don't know it's it's an assumption and the whole place in case he was talking to someone looming over another table it's tiny the diner's tiny he was not i mean no you're like he's in there he's in there he's in there all right i've

30:38Jacqueline Novak:got him i'm cornered i got him cornered so fucking mosquito bitch okay um sorry me flying in she's

30:44Kate Berlant:not a freak she's emmy nominated okay so you call me get me on the phone on facetime she's not a freak. She's Emmy nominated. She's not some freak. I get you on FaceTime. What year were you nominated for an Emmy? Was that the same year as the Critics Choice?

30:58Jacqueline Novak:I am on the phone. I'm on the fake phone. He's taking time. I go, I'm waiting. Sorry, I'm waiting. And then I go, Kate. And are

31:05Kate Berlant:you doing talking or only listening on the fake phone at this point? Talking, both. I'm talking too. I'm talking too. And how are you afraid the screen's going to light up? What are you doing about that?

31:13Jacqueline Novak:A little bit. I have it concealed. I mean, again, it's a small hallway. I feel like I'm good. And then I go, Kate, I go, you got to give it up. I'm not waiting this long. I go, it's too much. So I go, okay, well, talk to you later.

31:26Kate Berlant:Bye.

31:26Jacqueline Novak:And I go into the bathroom. I pee. I go, you're funny. And then I come out and this was hard to swallow. I go, Kate, you're going to get a look when you go back to the table. Relax. He's gone. She's gone.

31:40Kate Berlant:Go back. So this was a classic case of going to use the restroom before we leave.

31:45Jacqueline Novak:The point is I come out, they're fucking gone and I am crestfallen. But then I sit down and I go, you know what? This is the greater poetry of the story. You know, by the way, I've seen him in the flesh before. Okay. We were in the same film for Christ's sake. Okay. But there's very few people. There's very few people that hold that power. And I would say, I mean, I'd be very excited to see Nicole Kidman. Like, there's a, like, but those celebs, but even, but she's, it's Leo, you know, it's, anyway, the point is, he's gone, I'm fine. We have the meal. Unbelievable generosity. They give us four Max and Helen hats.

32:32Jacqueline Novak:Wow. We'll have the picture for the subscribers. Slash, I might post it to my personal gram. and um i get a mug i get a max and helen's mug it was it was a fabulous breakfast we're in and by the way they're fast their food's coming out fast point is we go next door to the bookstore naomi says to me he's here no what he was in the bookstore next door yeah so i got my look

33:05Jacqueline Novak:also what do you do what do you do about this i had a thing happened where someone came up to me and said hi this is at a at an event the person comes up to me hi i think it's someone they're not and i say to them i'm covering details here i don't really know i go i thought they were the owner of a restaurant that closed and i said oh my god hi i miss name of the restaurant so much and the person looks at me and they do the perfect thing where they don't say anything and they kind of go like well it's really good to see you and they walk away i instantly realize it's the wrong person damn what do i do so i go what do i do but did you realize who it was or merely who it was not so then they walk away i go wait it's not that person you still you still don't know who they are i go it's not that person i go i think it's this and i was correct i was like this is the association i think i know them from here i was correct i later learned so i go what do i do do i go up to them i go hey sorry that so i i do tell me if you think this is a weird fib i don't want to call it a lie but i declare it's a fib i go up to them and i go maybe that's the name thing i miss blank so much maybe that's the name of a friend that moved away i go friend died i go let's not go death let's go they moved away i go you mean the lie you're quickly creating yeah so let's just say i don't i'm right right so let's say the restaurant was called i'm jumping i know yeah it's just called tana okay i go so again i said to the person oh my god hi i miss tana so much blank stare smile good to see you they walk away i go fuck so then i go what do i do do i go oh my god i thought so so then i say to them i thought this would be the bravest thing i know you're not going to give the name of the restaurant right yeah but although actually the

34:49Kate Berlant:the name of the restaurant doesn't fuck anything. No.

34:51Jacqueline Novak:Does it not?

34:52Kate Berlant:No. So actually maybe can we work with the real name of the restaurant, but not the friend? Because it really does affect matters, right? So do you want to give the name of the restaurant? Okay. Okay. Jewel. The name of the restaurant is Jewel. Exactly. So that's where you go. Because you were launching in on name of the restaurant. That could be a friend who died. And I'm going, well, if the restaurant was called, you know, pasta, pasta, pasta, okay? It could be an issue. So I'm going, okay, it's Jewel. So I miss Jewel so much, right? so so so you're going now now here's my question is jewel in your opinion known enough that this

35:25Jacqueline Novak:person knows no well could be could be good fucking let me just play with it for a moment

35:33Kate Berlant:before we get to what you did i just want to play with it for it could be it actually really could be everyone can join in thinking how would they get out of this right so i go i go i miss jewel so much okay and also i have an announcement you could play it off like you said y 'all

35:45Jacqueline Novak:look at this a person the person does bear a resemblance to like they look similar okay look but look at this no i hear you but look joel joel yeah no you know joel right joel mccabe so so i said i go wouldn't it be brave if i went if i went up to this person i said you know what i'm so mortified i'm so sorry i cannot place where i know you from wouldn't that be so brave? Wouldn't that be so, and there I am too scared. So here's what I do. The person's still kind of near me. So I go up to them, I smile, I go, I'm so sorry. I thought you knew my friend Jewel, but I realized that I don't think you do know my friend Jewel.

36:27Jacqueline Novak:Right.

36:27Kate Berlant:But I know exactly who you are, but you don't know my friend Jewel, right?

36:32Jacqueline Novak:Waiting for them to tell you. And then the person, and then the person goes, no, I know you from, and I was correct, says where I know them and I go, oh my God. And again, in my defense, I haven't seen the person in 10 years. So it's like, it's not egregious. And we were never closer. And the point is, was the lie strange? Was it weird that I went up and I said, you don't know my friend, you made it not. I could have just said, God, you look just like the person who owns this restaurant, but it's not you.

37:05Kate Berlant:Oh, but I never said my trick. Are you ready? Oh, yeah. It's not a big trick, but it's something. And you know what? When you're in line at TSA security, I think anything helps. Anyway, here it is. So you know the long metal table, okay, that you haul your shit up on, like the bins?

37:21Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

37:21Kate Berlant:So you know how you get your bins, you throw them up there, and then you throw your bags, and then begins the long push, right? Push, push, push, okay? So my trick, everyone throws their suitcase on the table at the very top beginning of the table. No need. Keep rolling it all the way till you're at basically the cutoff. OK, and then you throw it on. Why push a suitcase on a table when you could simply roll into the bin?

37:52Jacqueline Novak:Why isn't that more intuitive? Is it because people are all doing that? So I fear there won't be enough room for my bag if I wait.

37:58Kate Berlant:Yeah. And you just have to remember that generally the shoving isn't that violent. like you just simply you stop it like they're like and people see what's going on it's um something like your move like yeah let's hear it oh i also throw my shit in the in a bin before i've removed it from the thing i throw my shit in the bin and then i lift the bin up onto the table the bin is in a pile i throw my shit into that then i lift it up and place it on the table

38:24Jacqueline Novak:it's not extra labor it's less labor i feel i feel like in an embarrassing way I feel like oh look at me you know I really know how to travel I pride myself on traveling well and so sometimes I find myself and this is really disgusting I find myself locking eyes with the TSA people and running my hands over my pockets to show them you think I'm ever going to go through there with something in my pocket

38:52Kate Berlant:and it's just this little thing I do I'm not like the rest of them

38:59Jacqueline Novak:and I do it and I pretend that it's absent-minded. So I lock, I pretend to accidentally lock eyes with them, even though I know I'm searching for their gaze the whole time.

39:09Kate Berlant:Okay, this is, thank you.

39:10Jacqueline Novak:I pretend to lock eyes and then I, as though it's muscle memory, run my hands over the front of the pockets, the back of the pockets, and then I enter.

39:25Jacqueline Novak:What do you do with a barista who seems to have a personal fucking grudge against you and you haven't done shit. I mean, I'm hesitant to go public.

39:34Kate Berlant:There's this barista that,

39:36Jacqueline Novak:my local coffee shop, oh, and I'm chatting friendly with everyone, neighborhood spot, everyone's like, she fucking hates my ass. I go, what happened here? I go, I fuck your wife? Why are you mad at me, sweetie? It almost has made me almost laugh a couple of times.

39:54Kate Berlant:And I've seen her and I go, maybe that's her.

39:55Jacqueline Novak:I've seen her face drop. She's like, yeah, see you next week. not an exaggeration oh can i have this no thank you okay no no i know i almost have to come see

40:09Kate Berlant:that i think i want you to come see it live no i wonder it's so crazy techniques i go in first i sit alone with sunglasses okay okay wait okay i watch you come in now here's here's three stages okay of observation of control we'll actually come in you don't clock her you try not to clock her yet so in other words i'm gonna watch you roll i would love this and then she's like oh she's coming in right i need you i'd see her i need someone to really observe this because i've

40:40Jacqueline Novak:almost because it's like it can't be personal here's here's what i know not to be presumptuous i know like i wasn't rude it's not like i fucking did something weird where i'm an asshole it's just so it has to be personal but what could it be it's almost like she's performing how much she hates me it hurts my feelings now what what could and by the way i go careful because if you catch you on a

41:03Kate Berlant:bad day i'm gonna go what of course what is it sweetheart i go you want to fight let's fight do you want to fight with me i don't understand i need to know face drops do you think and i do

41:16Jacqueline Novak:i do the standard of course i'm saying honda i think a couple times i've even tried like yeah or something just a little yeah it's like she does this to me literally what do you want bitch is what she's saying to me. And then do you watch her with others after?

41:30Kate Berlant:And she's normal?

41:31Jacqueline Novak:No, I saw a guy, like a normal guy, like a man. And I saw her say to him, like, yeah, they're having a little chat. Yeah, and then literally I walk up, watch the drop in touch away, I go.

41:42Kate Berlant:Now, you're not a dummy, okay? But I still have to pose a possible question. I want you to come see. Is there some chance that she's so starstruck? No.

41:51Jacqueline Novak:Okay, then the only thing she can think to do I love that read.

41:54Kate Berlant:is panic. I love that read. rude to lock something down she's so mean to me like a little hustle grind I know lipstick on

42:03Jacqueline Novak:the celsius okay she's so like that it actually blocks the possibility like maybe I need to try right ow oh my god look see look at this like skin peeling something's wrong and no one cares my doctors I I need I need 9-11 I mean 9-1-1 I need to call okay anyway well I haven't picked

42:22Kate Berlant:Remember I went last week, Rosacea, whatever. They put in the scripts. I haven't even gone to pick them up. Aren't I wild? They got me like three scripts for my Rosacea.

42:31Jacqueline Novak:And I'm like, oh, yeah. Rosacea's everywhere. Okay, but wait, wait, wait. I thought you'd be impressed. I can't even say to her. Like, she has such a thing going on that I can't even really be like, what's your name? Like, I almost want to go, I come in here a lot, you know. I never really introduced myself. Hi, I'm Kenny. like it's like i don't know what how to break through and i would go just ignore it's not about you i know it's not about me and that's that's her she's on her journey with me i'm stimming

42:58Kate Berlant:again i'm sorry i'm stimming i just want to ask a quick question which is can you hear yes they can hear okay cute so they're gonna love that that's gonna be a cute new thing on the podcast okay so here's what i'm thinking what about what about this i need you to come observe let me just

43:11Jacqueline Novak:think of what could i do hi how are you and then i but then i sound like a fake bitch hi how are you today i don't need someone to there i understand you're fucking you're at work you're like i don't need you i'm not expecting some you know what i mean i'm just trying to think but but why would

43:28Kate Berlant:she so actively want you to see her disdain for you which is what it sounds like right no that's what it sounds like so when someone is like that i've seen her a little it's not like with everyone could she be confusing you with a public figure who has like you know you know what's really ugly sentiments.

43:43Jacqueline Novak:When I was in, where was I? London. I was in a certain area of London. Few people thought I was someone else. I went to a restaurant and they go, hey, you're back.

43:50Kate Berlant:We saw how you voted on the latest whatever. I know, I know. They think you're like, you know what I'm saying? No, I know. We don't like what you've done to our community. It's not me.

44:01Jacqueline Novak:They think you are. I don't know what the fuck is going on, but actually today, I was like, anyway, I'm like please come observe no I'm so curious that I'm like I want to go right now well it's today we got to make sure that we're there when she's in you know her days what day of the week is it

44:19Kate Berlant:Lulu and Georgia these are my kids Lulu and Georgia and Serena and Luli and my fourth my fifth son Nordic Knots yeah that's cute

44:30Jacqueline Novak:Nordic

44:32Kate Berlant:Nordica what about Nordica

44:33Jacqueline Novak:Nordica yeah

44:36Kate Berlant:um uh wait wait wait so

44:39Jacqueline Novak:anyway that was hard today and i'm gonna get to the bottom of it i don't know how and i think i have to go in there i was fantasizing i go do i have to fake a heart attack do i have to go in there and have some kind of medical save you so she'll save me and then i'll

44:50Kate Berlant:go now we're connected interesting you go victim you sometimes go go victim damsel i think i have to go hi can i get a sorry i don't think i was gonna help you oh boy

45:03Jacqueline Novak:I need

45:04Kate Berlant:I need to No, no I don't think it's victim Is that interesting You think that'll work? I go, hey, can I get it?

45:09Jacqueline Novak:Oh, you have an eyelash Make a wish No

45:19Jacqueline Novak:I told a story about obviously the teacher bringing me in accusing me of plagiarism Of course, I referenced it this very morning I think we might have the BTS No, no, stop, stop

45:25Kate Berlant:When I go, you lie Remember I go, you're lying

45:31Jacqueline Novak:that's what that was a reference to

45:34Kate Berlant:oh my god I didn't even know what you were referencing

45:37Jacqueline Novak:I thought you were just saying that

45:39Kate Berlant:we can cut to that moment earlier it's on Kate, Chris, Parents, Lou just so you know I believe you, I don't think you're lying you're lying I thought you were just saying that you're chuckling to myself

45:53Jacqueline Novak:so again just for people just joining us I'm not going to go into it deeply but I had a cruel math teacher I couldn't do math. I was in, you know, I was really struggling in math always due to the various learning disabilities. And, but was a good student. Otherwise, math teacher, there was a, there was a project that didn't really, and there was a writing component. It was about cars. And my written component was unbelievably florid and poetic about a car. And then the math was all wrong. Right. And so she thought, well, I know that she's, this girl's an idiot. She couldn't write this. So she lied about having found it on the internet, brought me in, said, say after class, this isn't your writing.

46:29Jacqueline Novak:I start crying and she goes, I found on the internet and I said, you, you lie, you lie. And, um, and then they had to bring in my English teacher. My English teacher was like, oh yeah, Kate can write this. Yeah. Kate can write this, sweetie. She may not be able to do math due to the various learning disabilities, but she can write.

46:46Kate Berlant:And I never got an apology. I never got anything. I'm silent.

46:58Kate Berlant:Can we work on how we talk to performers? Okay. If you are in a position to DM or speak to a performer after they get off stage or within days or, dare I say, years of a performance. I want to make this very clear. Raves only. Only anything other. You think we can't see through. I mean, I've talked about this, but someone from high school coming and going, how do you feel about it?

47:25Jacqueline Novak:Oh, I've gotten that too. that's a classic how to feel for you how to feel for you you know that was a classic how to feel for me when you were fucking how do you think no no you people think i think oh you know we need the praise that's why we're up there we're up there literally screaming crying begging for you to love us please tell us that you love us i can't have this i actually got what do you think about this i got an email i did a show so i was like hey i saw your show last night let me know if you ever want to do it in x town like did you like the show did you do you know what i mean is that

48:02Kate Berlant:being overly sensitive like a venue person being like let me know if you're not even like

48:07Jacqueline Novak:not even yeah exactly not even like love yeah sorry show it's somewhat implied if they have

48:12Kate Berlant:a venue yeah i still i kind of but i do kind of agree i think um you know i'm trying to think sensitive have i aired you know surely we all are human right have i ever in an attempt to and this is what i think it can come from in an attempt to not make it show that you're that you've really heard the work okay you do something other than just like what you fear will be empty praise and so you just try to try to say something that's like you know i just thought it was so interesting and then whatever the fuck you say like you go like like where i just feel like i was i don't know i forget but but folks folks yeah you got to um lay it on face lay it on folks you know what you know what you see this is this is the lie to me

49:08Jacqueline Novak:baby.

49:10Kate Berlant:That was POOG.

49:13Jacqueline Novak:If you enjoyed POOG, please subscribe, rate, and review. If not, we will press charges.