In short
A “remix” of Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak’s favorite stories about scams, petty theft, and getting ripped off by service companies—plus two confrontations where they push back hard.
Guests
None. The episode is hosted by Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak (POOG).
Guest backgrounds
Not applicable (no guests).
Key claims
Scammers can look legit (logos, fast emails, plausible bank-sounding scripts), but you must verify details like email domains. Shoplifting is framed as compulsive/adrenaline-driven and sometimes justified as protest against exploitative corporations. Service providers can exploit customers with upsells/discounts instead of full refunds; “discount” language is treated as a red flag.
Notable examples
A caller claiming to be “Brian from Bank of America” with an email ending in “bfa.com” (not bankofamerica.com). A Whole Foods matcha shoplifting “plan” involving tossing cheaper boxes into a tote and then escaping after a security guard appears. A chimney sweep (“Mr. Chimney” / ProStar) allegedly leaves soot on curtains, couch, and multiple surfaces; they argue over $450–$900 charges, partial refunds, blocked calls, and no apology. An Uber mix-up at LAX where a rude man takes the wrong car; she confronts him and later flips him off when she sees him again.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to the Remix Episode
0:16 to 0:27
The hosts introduce the remix episode featuring their favorite moments.
“This week, we've put together an episode full of some of our most favorite moments featuring grievances, injustices and scams.”
Fears of Being Scammed
0:27 to 0:50
Kate discusses her paranoia about falling victim to scams.
“So I have sometimes like an elderly fear of being scammed or like, I feel like I could be scammed so easily.”
A Phone Call from a Scam Artist
0:50 to 2:48
Kate recounts a suspicious phone call she received from someone claiming to be from Bank of America.
“No, like I'm so fucking gullible in this way.”
Shoplifting Reflections
2:48 to 4:08
Jacqueline reflects on her past experiences with shoplifting, particularly at Sephora.
“It's legit because his email address is his name at bfa.com.”
Consequences of Shoplifting
4:08 to 5:07
The hosts discuss the societal implications of shoplifting and its relationship to gender.
“And again, I don't stand by stealing from small businesses or anything like that.”
Planning a Shoplifting Adventure
5:07 to 7:39
Kate hilariously narrates her meticulous plan to steal ceremonial grade matcha from Whole Foods.
“Did they teach you not to steal as a child or was it never brought up?”
Chimney Sweep Disaster
7:39 to 14:00
Jacqueline shares her frustrations about a chimney sweep who damaged Kate's house.
“I would awake in the night, craving a certain item convincing myself, how do I get it?”
Seeking Resolution for Charges
14:00 to 15:00
Discussion about feeling the urgency to resolve a financial issue quickly.
“If he's still there, I've got to get on the phone before Kate undersells what she's owed.”
The Phone Call Chronicles
15:00 to 17:20
An intricate recounting of a problematic phone call regarding house management.
“And I referenced, let's say your street was, you know.”
The Chimney Sweep Incident
17:20 to 18:40
Kate shares her unsettling experience with a chimney sweep and the ensuing mess.
Show all 24 chapters
Confronting Poor Service
18:40 to 21:00
A dialogue on confronting service workers about inadequate job performance.
“And the guy, he starts to go, I go, I need to talk to your supervisor or someone like, I can't pay full price for this.”
Negotiating Refunds and Discounts
21:00 to 23:00
Struggles with getting a fair refund for poor service despite negotiations.
“So you flew into, let me give them money.”
Escalating the Issue
23:00 to 28:00
Discussion about escalating the complaint to higher management and the emotional toll it takes.
“And by the way, this is another impeachable thing.”
Confronting Customer Service Frustrations
28:00 to 29:10
The hosts discuss a frustrating customer service experience involving a manager.
Attempting to Resolve the Issue Together
29:10 to 30:00
The hosts attempt to call the manager as a team to resolve the issue.
Navigating Customer Service Obstacles
30:00 to 31:40
The hosts experience technical difficulties while trying to get through to customer service.
“No, because in theory, if they blocked you, they're not getting the call, right?”
Escalating the Complaint
31:40 to 33:20
Discussion on how to escalate the complaint to the management team.
“I haven't even heard, I haven't even heard their, their own.”
Frustration Over Lack of Communication
33:20 to 35:00
The hosts express frustration over not receiving timely updates from the management team.
“Thank you so much for patience and waiting.”
Identifying the Root Cause of Issues
35:00 to 36:20
They identify the key individual responsible for their dissatisfaction.
“We don't have further access on our end.”
Strategies for Effective Communication
36:20 to 37:30
The hosts brainstorm strategies for how to effectively communicate their grievances.
“And he looked at them and he was like, and then, and then he was one who said, I can't do more than the discount I've given you.”
Reflections on Anger and Compassion
37:30 to 39:20
Discussion on the emotional impact of their frustrations and the importance of compassion.
“You can't leave a message because the person you called has a voicemail box that hasn't been set up yet.”
The Broader Perspective on Customer Experiences
39:20 to 40:50
They reflect on how personal experiences shape views on customer service.
A Travel Experience Gone Awry
40:50 to 42:01
Jacqueline shares a travel story that leads to a confrontation at the airport.
“but but also where i thought you were headed okay i'm disappointed you're not now i'm gonna I zelle him a thousand dollars.”
The Uber Incident
42:01 to 47:53
A humorous story about a frustrating Uber mix-up at LAX and a rude encounter.
“two really big bags a small bag a shoulder bag I had too much stuff I'm trying to justify right now that I, when I landed in LA, I got a curbside pickup from Uber because I couldn't manage the shuttle on my own.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Jacqueline Novak:Hi, I'm Kate Berlant. I'm Jacqueline Novak. And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends, two untamable intellects. This is our hobby.
0:10Kate Berlant:This is our hell. This is our naked desire for free products. This is POOG. Greetings, everybody. This week, we've put together an episode full of some of our most favorite moments featuring grievances, injustices and scams. Enjoy our latest remix while we're off the clock. Here it is, the law offices of Berlant and Novak.
0:35Jacqueline Novak:So I have sometimes like an elderly fear of being scammed or like, I feel like I could be scammed so easily. Like, for example, a couple of times I've gotten a text where I have to show the person I'm with and go, that's a scam, right? And it's like a very clear scam. And I'm like, almost like wiring like money. No, like I'm so fucking gullible in this way. And I got a call from just a number. And I didn't think it was spam. I picked it up. Hi, this is Brian from Bank of America, whatever. I'm like this fucking scam artist piece of shit. And I go, uh-huh. And then he starts talking to me. And then I'm like, wait, well, it sounds kind of real.
1:09Jacqueline Novak:I just to be frank how do I know that this is real at all yeah and he was like totally and I told him how his number came up and he was like oh and then I said he wanted to set up an appointment with me and I said yeah why don't you email me and then he emails me within moments and it has like the Bank of America and this is what's weird to me I think it was legit logo is not enough the logo is not enough and truly the logo looked like shit kind of i need to see this okay i have
1:41Kate Berlant:to bring because honestly bank of america must be humiliated if like b of a logos are so bad cape berland thinks they're a scam they always tell you to check to look closely at the email address that it's sent from because it'll be like that bank of tarica took me a while he was like
2:00Jacqueline Novak:I'm a small business banker or something. Sure. Well, yeah, that does sound.
2:06Kate Berlant:I mean, sorry. Key question. Is that your bank?
2:09Jacqueline Novak:Bank of America? Yes. Okay. Okay.
2:12Kate Berlant:Yeah. I'm a small business banker.
2:15Jacqueline Novak:Okay. So look at this. And this is why it feels legit. He said, thank you for taking my call. Looking forward to connecting. This is wild. And helping to deepen the relationship with the bank.
2:27Kate Berlant:This is bizarre. Did you recently make a massive deposit?
2:31Jacqueline Novak:No, that's the thing. So then he included, it says business card, right? But look at this Bank of America logo. Fuck, you're blurry. Will you send it to me? I need it. Screenshot and send. But listen, it says here, like this message, any attachments, whatever. Like it looks pretty real. And then I think it is real. And then his, okay, yeah, okay. It's legit because his email address is his name at bfa.com. Look very closely at bfa. Uh-huh. B-O-F-A
3:01Kate Berlant:B-O-F-A B-O-F-A
3:03Jacqueline Novak:B-O-F-A And then dot Com, baby I'm gonna pour it to you Because I almost gave him everything And I got excited Dot com, baby You're going
3:14Kate Berlant:Dot com, baby Like, you know it
3:16Jacqueline Novak:You love it I feel like it's like Jewish or something Like I have this Like my deep desire To have close relationships With like doctors and lawyers Like Because like to be like, help me. And so similarly, I'm like, I had this flash of like me and my small business. Deepening the relationship. This flash of my small business banker and I going out for like, yeah, once a year, we get an obligatory lunch.
3:41Kate Berlant:I also like the idea of them being nothing to discuss. What really, is he going to be your financial planner? There's no fucking way.
3:47Jacqueline Novak:I almost wanted to say, what's in it for you, Brian? You're skimming a little off the top. Like, no.
4:02Kate Berlant:You know, and you famously say in your act that women should be allowed to steal from Sephora, right?
4:07Jacqueline Novak:Yes, I used to shoplift heavily from Sephora in my youth. And I stand by it. And again, I don't stand by stealing from small businesses or anything like that. But a corporation like Sephora that is, you know, pulling in money built on the weaponization of women's bodies against ourselves, really. I don't think they deserve to turn a profit and they do. They factor in shoplifting into their annual budget, I'm sure. Hilarious. And I don't think there's anything wrong with me stealing a cream that I shouldn't have to buy just so that, you know, I can erase lines that will then make me more palatable to the men in charge to hire me.
4:43Jacqueline Novak:And so I do believe that I now I stopped because after Giuliani's daughter was was arrested shoplifting from Sephora. Are you serious? Yes. And that really was the wake up call. I was like calling my mother and being like, Kate, I got arrested from shoplifting Dior mascara. Like I was like, I can't imagine my parents would be like, would they be devastated?
5:09Kate Berlant:Yeah.
5:09Jacqueline Novak:I just, I was like, did they teach you?
5:11Kate Berlant:Did they teach you not to steal as a child or was it never brought up? You're so funny.
5:16Jacqueline Novak:My mom has a bit of the shoplifting bug. Holy shit. So I completely heard anyone say that. very so embarrassed to hear you talking about this but like first of all and i talked about this with john early yes because he was like he grew up having you know all these friends these girlfriends that would shoplift and he was like i feel like it's a significantly like kind of female disease or compulsion which i completely agree with i think that women we feel like we're being robbed since birth we are so much is being demanded from of us and stolen from us i'm laughing by the
5:50Kate Berlant:severity of the language and yeah and no so it's like genius it's like yeah we should get a goddamn freebie here and there well like i always feel like it's like girls stealing thongs for some reason in my mind like thongs from annie says and maybe that's because like my friend stole thongs from annie says this is why i don't know what oh very east coast okay okay it's almost like a tj maxx or something got it um i wonder how if they'd be happy to hear me say that
6:20Jacqueline Novak:Well, that's that. And of course, American apparel and this way that I remember shoplifting, stuffing my bag so comically. Like I went in with like Santa, it was like Santa's bag. Like the, it was like a duffel basically. I'm leaving with it stuffed. And I remember it just being, cause there was a mania that came over me. It really is drug addiction, shoplifting, cause it's like this adrenaline rush and like stealing things. I don't even particularly want just being like, put them in, put them in, you know, it really is compulsive behavior and it feels incredible. Oh, and so one thing, so my mom is not like a habitual shoplifter, but I think she, and this is also, I think honestly political and radical and completely okay.
7:01Jacqueline Novak:And of course, you know, the, the, it's also just, of course you're like a white lady in a story and get away with murder, but it's like she, my mom has a couple of times had kind of that moment happen of, Oh, is it, this is in the cart. Oh, did I not pay for that? Like kind Kind of like, like a couple of times I've been with her or she told me she let something kind of slide into her hand and pass the checkout counter, just like petty theft. And, but it's like, yeah, because when you're a woman over a certain age, you're invisible. Right. And so it's like, you should be able to steal. If you're going to make me invisible.
7:34Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. It's like, well, then I'm going to be the invisible man and, and goddamn steal. And so, and I haven't had a couple because, and I recognize it now. It's kind of like an OCD thing. I would awake in the night, craving a certain item convincing myself, how do I get it? I don't want to pay for it. And for me, I remember one time it really circling around ceremonial grade matcha. And I was like, I need the ceremonial grade matcha. And I, but I'm not spending$45. It was like$40. I was like, I'm not spending 40 something dollars on tea. Absolutely not. So in my mind, I was like, I'm going to steal it from Whole Foods.
8:09Jacqueline Novak:And I remember being awake at night being like, here's what I'm going to do. And by the way, I did it. I did it. So here was my plan. I was Like I'm going to have the shopping cart. I'm going to have a huge, I'm going to be loading things into the shopping cart. I'm going to put a tote bag in the shopping cart and I'm going to be at the tea section. I'm going to toss, recklessly toss a couple of boxes of like$3 tea. Over your shoes. And then I'm going to, exactly, into the cart. So that if anyone sees me or on the security cams, oh, she's tossing tea. Okay. She's tossing tea into the cart. so then what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna pick up the tin of the ceremonial grade matcha with the same light-hearted with the same recklessness yes but i will aim perfectly for the tote so that even if it lands in the tote well i had no idea let's check the camera sir okay so my heart is this is the best story i've ever heard i'm literally in shock
9:03Kate Berlant:and how did how does this not come up anytime we've mentioned matcha okay go on i don't know I don't know. I'm thrilled.
9:11Jacqueline Novak:I toss the$3 box that lands. It's perfect. I grab the tin. I arc it. Then I pick up the ceremonial grade matcha. I arc it beautifully. The ceremonial grade matcha arcs lands perfectly in the tote just as planned. You cannot be serious. I delicately note this from a side glance. I rise to my feet. At that moment, a security guard.
9:35Kate Berlant:Wait, rise to your feet because it was low down on the shelf i was crouching all right and by that moment little
9:41Jacqueline Novak:handheld not a uh no full-blown shopping cart because key to this key to this was that i had the wagon filled so i was oh she's shopping right so at that moment a security guard turned down the aisle and my heart truly dropped i was like oh no and of course he walked right by me he didn't notice or anything and so here's what i did which was a weird move so my skin is on fire because the matcha is firmly in the tote okay i make the strange decision to take it to the car now wait so i abandon my cart i take my tote i abandon the cart i go to my car i put the i transfer the ceremony of green matcha into the console and then i'm i'm and i was like screaming with laughter alone like shaking screaming with laughter alone yeah no like that's what the yeah and so then i'm like go back in so i went back in and filled out my cart and then checked out but that was a weird move like i probably should have just stayed with the cart i don't know but i have it let me tell you the matcha i just remember having that it tastes like 10 times sweeter when it's free oh my god that's interesting and then i almost did i was obsessed with the idea of wanting to shoplift manuka honey because i was like manuka honey is probably a total scam and i don't want to spend 50 on honey but i want to taste the you know i want that experience i I want to, you know, to be.
11:03Jacqueline Novak:This is astonishing to me because. And then I never did shoplift the Manuka, honey. I got too scared. Congratulations. And I don't shoplift anymore, for the record.
11:20Jacqueline Novak:I want revenge. I'm furious. I've been wronged. I've been abused. I have been abused by a chimney sweep.
11:32Kate Berlant:okay so kate she's really just oh my god i'm getting a chimney sweep whatever right okay i've got a i've got a fireplace now i'm gonna do it i'm gonna do it i get you gotta get a chimney sweep i heard her tell someone else you gotta get chimney sweep okay so you call next thing i know okay i get sent pictures of kate's white curtains and the very top of the curtain so high high up and they are way high above the level of where the chimney is okay up and they are blackened like a fire happened in that room yeah you know and things got so so they're like blackened curtains like the entire corner like a vignette like the white curtain has been given a vignette corner okay see that then i see other areas of fabrics okay i see other just a level of damage has been So she texts me, you know, my house is ruined or something.
12:23Kate Berlant:Okay. So.
12:24Jacqueline Novak:Have you ever seen me like this? I've never been so upset.
12:27Kate Berlant:So I just ask you about something and you go, for tomorrow, you go, I'm in nightmare. Okay. I'm in nightmare. Okay. I'm like, Studio City, seeing if you were nearby still. Chimney Sweep ruined my house. Okay. I wrote three question marks. And then here come the photos. Yeah. Okay. Okay, just devastation. No, but. Okay, but so yeah, the vignette I'm talking about really densely on a, you know, this would require serious cleaning. And then, and then let's see. Yeah, there's just soot. And I go, and he left. I know. I know. I don't know it's a man. Okay. And he left because I'm going, if he's still there, I'm getting on the phone, whatever.
Read the full transcript
13:11Kate Berlant:You. Okay. I should never have let him leave. So Kate Berlant, I'm on phone. So articles have been dropped. Articles. Ruined house. Like, you know, my house. Okay, you're going, I'm on phone, not I'm on the phone with him. Yeah, yeah. All right. $900. You dropped the word$900. Okay, out of conduct. So I'm going, okay, she's saying that it costs$900, right? Yeah. Like, I've been fucked. $900, right? I go, if he had a company, because I was like, was this a fucking scam? You know what I mean? I go, if he had a company, they need to pay for cleaning or replacement. The law offices of Berlin and Novak are open.
13:46Kate Berlant:Okay, now those who know us know in the past, Kate will think she deserves nothing but a free drink down in the lobby, perhaps, of your choosing, something you've mixed, pre-mixed, perhaps. Okay, where I'm going, full refund and pay for damages, essentially, right? Always. I'm always pushing for that. So I start to feel this panic. If he's still there, I've got to get on the phone before Kate undersells what she's owed. And I hear this is giving me a fucking heart attack. So I'm on phone, 900. I go, they need to play for cleaning or replacement, trying to get the words into her quick. And I hear, are you ready?
14:17Kate Berlant:They're taking off 450. Okay. I go, Kate, four question marks. Okay. I go, that's not enough. Add me to the call. This is rapid fire where I don't wait to finish the whole sentence. I need it through. So I go, add me to the call. I'll pretend I own the house. And then, and then I go, it's not happening. I go, I'll call and you can, and you can add me. Confusion. I meant add you. The contact is dropped. You drop the contact. Please call, you say. You go, please call. I almost cried. So I'm being charged$4.50. I start texting in need. I need you on the call. Okay. I call instantly. Do you understand?
14:58Kate Berlant:So cool. I don't like to make phone calls. I never make phone calls. So cool. And then what happened again? He hung up on you? You're like, hello? Okay. Yeah. And I go, hi. And I referenced, let's say your street was, you know. Yeah, yeah. Ginger Street. Yeah, Ginger Street. Okay. Hi, I'm calling regarding the Ginger Street property that I manage. Yeah, yeah. And genius. Okay. Okay. Because I'm like, I'll say I own the house. And you had written back, I said I owned it. So I'm moving quick. Yeah. And I go, hi, I'm hearing about, like I went into a different identity. I'm hearing that the house was left with a layer of soot on a variety of things.
15:34Kate Berlant:And then I'm trying to say like the little lady was almost confused. Yeah. Like I'm hearing about a$450. Like I'm hearing about a discount. It seems like clearly it should be a full refund plus payment for cleaning services since the primary promise is not that they did a half good job. Okay. And then what happened? What did they say? Okay. And then I see you or I go, I got to add her. Okay. I got to add her. I try to add you. I think it's going to happen really fast because he's not replying. I go back. He hangs up on me. Then I called back and then I got sent to like, the mailbox is full. What a laugh.
16:08Jacqueline Novak:With complaints. It was the sound of it.
16:09Kate Berlant:It was like, the mailbox.
16:10Jacqueline Novak:like no like it was a woman the mailbox is yeah yeah it was him okay the mailbox is full wait more hold on i was so in it right now i'm gonna i'm gonna say right now i called to get my chimney swept i love here here here it all is the guy calls me he's at my front door he's he's a full 30 minutes early and i said oh well you know my partner i said i said oh did you ring the doorbell okay i'm getting too into the forensics that's not important the point is i know here's what's important i felt in my soul run when you were first no no i felt my whole body was flooded i'm not kidding you i'm not hitting you i was like it's fine i don't like him i was like something's off something's off got there let him in i felt something was weird my partner tells me he asked them if they were jewish that's the detail but listen the point is i go and i'm i felt and later my partner remarked i was unusually short with him not rude but just like i wanted it over he was like this chimney hasn't been cleaned for a long time it's gonna cost five hundred dollars i go okay he goes i really suggest for safety you get the sealant for an additional 450 i start going or i can't do the math it came to 900 the point is and everything in me goes don't get the sealant this guy's a fucking lunatic do not trust him something i go but i'm going safety fires i'm scared you know i don't know so i go okay sure like yeah i get out of there i go take a shower i'm like i don't even want to be in the same room as him i swear to god i was like get me away from him i come out he's setting up i go oh do you have more drop i had a marvelous chimney sweep a beautiful man who came to my house years ago i couldn't find the information that guy gear so i knew a little bit i go where's all this motherfuckers gear he has one little drop cloth i go oh do you have another drop cloth he goes no no it'll be fine what do i know right everything i know so i go i go that makes me sad because i gotta go okay well he says it's fine like i guess it must be fine motherfucker doesn't put a drop cloth on my white couch a little on the corner i came with a towel we came with a towel put a towel on going on i come out i touch a table in my living room and go like this and my hand is covered in soot there is a soot layer i'm not exaggerating on every surface in my home for example there is like a record player that's underneath a shelf i go like this right soot right there is a notebook in the other room i go like this it's like 9 11 i go in no it's 9 11 it's everywhere i go in the hallway hallway you can't even see the fireplace i'm here soot on the ground i go oh my god oh my god i go wait wait wait wait wait there's there's soot on everything this motherfucker has the gold wait he's still there yes and you do the thing there yes i thought this jackley came home to destruction no he's there and i go wait there's soot everywhere he he starts going oh okay i'll clean it i'll clean it I think I did know this.
19:17Jacqueline Novak:He goes over to the wall. The wall, I'm going to post the photos. There's fucking soot everywhere. And the guy, he starts to go, I go, I need to talk to your supervisor or someone like, I can't pay full price for this. He goes, it's a dirty job. He starts going, look at me. No, no, no. Oh, yeah. This guy's out of his mind. He's just going, look at me. I mean, I'm in there. It's a dirty job. I'm like, well, of course it is. Right. And again, I've been to this before. i've had my chimney swept my house is normal it's like nothing happened so and then he goes no jacqueline are you ready for this yeah i don't even know if i told you this oh i do know he's fucking because i come in i go into the other room i go into the other room i come back and i notice in the other room again the hallway there's soot i go there's soot in the hall i show him the bottom of my foot there's soot all the way in the hall he goes maybe your house is dirty and i looked at him and i went are you kidding me and then he makes it he goes well i go i need to talk to someone i never get angry i'm not raising my voice at him at all he goes outside starts talking to his boss comes back 70 we can take off 70 i laugh i go 70 there's so let's just stop for a second i hate that you said discount and not full refund i know Oh, Jacqueline, I know.
20:39Jacqueline Novak:I'm up on the night. My job's just lodged because all I'm thinking of is why did I let him, why didn't I, I should,
20:44Kate Berlant:what I wish I did, I said, I'm not paying. I'm not paying. And everything's fine, okay, because. I've learned my fucking lesson. No, right, but I'm just, I'm just bringing up that point of pain, okay, so that, just to make it lodged for next time. Never, never let them leave. The word discount should never come out of your mouth, okay.
21:01Jacqueline Novak:Refund, refund, refund only. Okay, so. And not even Kate, Kate, Kate. And additional costs. Yeah. oh i know okay so so this guy on the phone is fucking awful he's the manager is he on speaker yeah okay they go we can take a hundred dollars off i go no they go 200 is the most we can do and i just go i mean i again i want it i want him out i want him out i'm just like get out yeah i was like okay i venmo don't want to get into it wait hold on hold on hold on hold on so you
21:37Kate Berlant:You hadn't paid yet. Kate. No.
21:40Jacqueline Novak:I hadn't paid him anything, Jacqueline. No.
21:42Kate Berlant:So you flew into, let me give them money. You could have withheld. I know.
21:49Jacqueline Novak:You could have said, well, like. Take me to court.
21:52Kate Berlant:Yeah. Oh, I wish I'd said, I'm not paying. And they would say, you have to pay. All they have been going, and how do you spell that? And you put a little emoji of a chimney. I know, I know. In a heart. So he fucking, I want him out of my house.
22:05Jacqueline Novak:Right. So I've emailed him$700. He leaves. I'm talking about maybe 25 seconds later. I notice the curtain. I go over. I go. And then it all. I see the couch. Like it all hits me. I see the curtains and I go, oh, my God. Like I hadn't seen it. I was like blind. I was like. I immediately call the guy. The guy on the phone, his manager is so rude. Is so outrageous. Is saying. I go. I go. I need this all refunded. He goes, no, he goes, he goes, I could send my, my cleaning guy to you. You still hadn't talked to me? No. Okay. He goes, I could, I could send my cleaning guy to you. I go, yeah, you give me a refund and send the cleaning guy.
22:48Jacqueline Novak:He goes, no, it's one, I give you, I'll give you another$250 or the cleaning person. No, no, I want the money back. He goes, oh, so it's not dirty. You just want the money back. No, no, no, no.
22:58Kate Berlant:Wait, wait, wait. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, so, so, so I, this, okay. so this sort of thing gets me okay because my heart races and goes when something's like wrong as you know this is why i like to we were talking about like i like to write a nine paragraph email just for my own sake of no of no and not send it necessarily just to make sure that my my argument is is perfect and i want to be unimpeachable by the way i need your help because i will be doing that i'm going to send a formal email because you will sort of go with emotion which has its value okay but i want to be un-fucking impeachable if i'm gonna you know what i mean like i want i want to be a i want to be a viper like exactly nothing there's no you know what i mean it's like so when things happen in an exchange okay where where like tense conversation like this is so almost upsetting to me because you don't necessarily have all the tools in the moment i know it's like literally like rhetoric i was shaking someone can confuse you i know i know and they say something back to you and i'm not a fighter
23:57Jacqueline Novak:right now i'm like i was shaking like i i was just like yeah and then i was like excuse me and he goes my technician said that the house was dirty there were cobwebs there is a and by the way here is unimpeachable in the corner above the living room about there was a hundred percent a cobweb
24:18Kate Berlant:And by the way, a cobweb is not soot. And by the way, this is another impeachable thing. See, this is where I go further than you. Okay. You go, my house isn't dirty. My house isn't dirty. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Okay. Your house can be, if your house, okay, had food smeared, okay. Because that's how you like to live on every wall surface. And they put soot on top of that. Yeah. They have an issue. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Get the soot off of the food I've smeared on my wall. Okay. So, so.
24:47Jacqueline Novak:Okay. So I, he goes, I'll give you another$250, which means I'm getting half off,$450 off. And I go, you're comfortable charging me$450 to have. Kate, I like that. That's good. Yeah, yeah. To have soot sprayed over my house. I go, your technician did not bother to put drop cloths down, proper drop cloths down. And also, by the way, the sweet, sweet couch cleaning guy, I told him what happened. he goes oh my god he said sounds like he must have somehow had he said some reference to some like something's supposed to be outside it was like it was like the vacuum was like spraying
25:23Kate Berlant:everything yeah like like sounds like he didn't yeah exactly touch the thing inside yeah that's
25:28Jacqueline Novak:like something i was like yeah the x yeah and i just go oh god so so i have the i have the half off my partner and i i don't want to give actually them credit they fucking spring into action they start cleaning hard we are on all four by the way ruined i mean we were like by the way me hours
25:45Kate Berlant:me like remembering that like you have a partner that i can actually i don't have to like be your whatever it's funny yeah like because i'm like in an old mindset or something that you have to protect me yeah that i have to like husband you yeah totally no i need like four husbands but like
26:05Jacqueline Novak:so we're cleaning we're cleaning i mean it's just devastating no no i have tons and with every no with every new you need to be witness with every new soot cloth it's like i can't believe this happened and anyway so i start calling so so here i'll just jump ahead and say that the company is called pro star so mr chimney like contracts out this company pro star okay and so the people that came to my actual house and did the wrecking was pro star they're like in cahoots i don't know how it works and did you know yeah now did did whenever you looked at yelp
26:37Kate Berlant:because I know you like to look at Yelp for stuff. You were looking at Mr. Chimney's Yelp. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do they disclose that they are ProStar before? It's okay. No, no, no. Okay.
26:47Jacqueline Novak:No, that's why I go, when I pay it, I go, wait, I'm sorry, ProStar, I thought it was Mr. Chimney. He's like, oh, well, yeah, like it's the same or whatever. It was like, I was like, okay, what? Wait, have you talked to Mr. Chimney? Oh my God, let's get into it, sweetheart. Okay. Mr. Chimney is who I'm almost the most mad at. And I call him Mr. Chimney. and I'm like hi I call with you and they go yes I see that you had an appointment today did it I go yes I'm confused pro someone from pro star came and they're like oh yeah that's our whatever the hell I explained to this person what happened they go okay can you send me pictures I go and you said I'm talking to the first nice person I've talked to right yeah is that the person that you said that no that was yesterday someone else no got it so I start I send all these pictures they go okay um we're gonna get back to you I go okay click I would like to tell you something no one from Mr.
27:36Jacqueline Novak:Chimney ever called me back and I called wait for it nine times and on the 10th time the manager happened to pick up interesting was remorseless did not say I'm sorry I explained everything she didn't say sorry she didn't say anything I said I'm trying to understand what happened in my house how did this happen she goes we gave you the half refund and that's all we're going to be able to do and of course I go I'll take you to small claims court did you say that yeah good she goes okay oh really she goes take out small claims no yeah i go well i'm going i'm going to eviscerate your business online wait did you say those words yes okay i'm really i mean i'm she said she said okay and i go okay this will be fun and i hung up wait you said yeah fun good look at me and by the way i want to just take a minute with this i called nine times so so but listen okay but i just want to say today i pulled over to the side of the road because i'm a fucking safe driver and i was like can't the chimney conversation while i'm driving it's too dangerous so i moved over pulled over to the side of the road spoke to the absolute abomination of this manager allegedly mr chimney who couldn't even say sorry and i was physically shaking my hand was like like hitting like the end button i was like like my adrenals were shot yeah shaking from rage it's kind of a good one no it's good to release it no shaking from rage can i call an
29:01Kate Berlant:Aaron just say I'm so upset. Why don't we do it now? What? Let's try to handle it again together. Okay, let me... Because I... I want to see...
29:10Jacqueline Novak:Wait. Where's Mr. Shimney? Okay, wait. Why don't you let me talk? Okay.
29:15Kate Berlant:I'm sorry. The number you have... They blocked me. Okay, wait.
29:20Jacqueline Novak:Oh, bitch, you... Wait. They blocked me. That's amazing. See, now I'm getting... They blocked me. Okay. My heart's pounding. All right. Give me the number. Oh, here.
29:41Kate Berlant:I'm so excited. Wait, don't pipe in like your emotion. I'm not going to pipe in. I'm not going to pipe in.
29:51Jacqueline Novak:Interesting. A call going through.
30:01Jacqueline Novak:I still make it nervous. Do you think they think it's me?
30:04Kate Berlant:No, because in theory, if they blocked you, they're not getting the call, right? Should we get my dad's advice? What? I know. Call him next? He will have advice. I got this before with these people.
30:19Jacqueline Novak:You're going to give a message? Should I? They're not going to call. No. Just call back again. call back immediately again
30:26Kate Berlant:like some you know sometimes you have to just say I got fucked this time sometimes it's me sometimes it's someone else fucking happens getting fucked happens right
30:40Jacqueline Novak:I talked to my friend Mr. Timney blocked me he said Kate you need to release this
30:49Kate Berlant:I mean you've been Hi, how are you? Hi. I'm calling about the property. I just want to make everything right here. So are you up to date on everything that's going on? I will have to pull up the information here now. Okay, sure. It is, I'll say it. It's street. How about the number? is this number associated with the number I'm calling from? No. The appointment? Okay. I can give you that number if you need. Please give me a moment now. Sure. Give me a moment now. The name is, should be Caperland.
31:39Jacqueline Novak:Immediately on hold. I haven't even heard, I haven't even heard their, their own. So I'm going to try a different approach
31:45Kate Berlant:than I normally would. Okay, great. What do you, I don't even know your approach is, this is exciting. I don't either. I'm gonna it's gonna be intuitive I think I might even just say like
32:00Jacqueline Novak:you could just say my friend's really upset I'm just I mean friend is so okay my employee
32:11Jacqueline Novak:this is amazing I haven't heard this I called them nine times I called them nine times
32:16Kate Berlant:in two days it's a sacred it's a sacred sacred number nine
32:25Jacqueline Novak:i thought they i mean they blocked me huh interesting yeah what do you think about that you could just say we're releasing this and your company is not going to do well
32:41Kate Berlant:what's your treating people like this zell what vema what'd you do zell so do they so they in
32:48Jacqueline Novak:theory have your yeah they could sell you back oh you know what would be the real phone call to make yeah the manager the man the man who is this this is mr chimney it's all so confusing right i think i think we do one more call you have to call him because he's the one that really did the damage I mean, these people are, they, you know, it's all, they're all interconnected.
33:15Kate Berlant:But they're technically at the top. Yeah, this is the top. So technically the buck stops with them. Yeah. And they said no? The best we can do is? Yeah, they both did. Thank you so much for patience and waiting. No problem.
33:30You there?
33:31Kate Berlant:I see here the latest update that you see.
33:41Kate Berlant:There's a refund request for the service. Yep.
33:49Kate Berlant:So has the refund gone through?
33:55Kate Berlant:We don't have further information. It's just already been escalated to our managing team. Oh, so who do I need to call? who do I call for the management team? You haven't received a call from the management team yet. No, unfortunately. So I've already sent that follow-up now and follow-up on the refund request and the complaint. I've forwarded it to the management team. And the management team is Mr. Chimney?
34:37Jacqueline Novak:Mr. Chimney. Say two days, no call back.
34:42Kate Berlant:So you, I'm sorry, did you re-up? You sent them something again? Or you mean it's already been escalated and... Basically... It has already been escalated. Right. Because we don't have further access. We don't have further access on our end. the management team is already handling this. So the best I can do is to send a follow-up and request for me to just call back. So just, you know, we sincerely appreciate your patience. Yeah, that would be great. And what about, is there a phone number for Mr. Chimney HQ that I could just call? Because I'm more than happy to just call. This is the number you can call now.
35:26Kate Berlant:I have to change the photos. Okay, like I've mentioned, the issue's already been escalated. Oh, right. I was just wondering if you knew the business name. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good one. Take care. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's whatever. So I would argue the person who... You have the... I'm looking up... I don't know. Too much? No, I'm just sort of... It's been escalated and you're waiting on a callback, right? Yeah. And that's the latest? Yeah, two days of no... They're never going to call me. They block my number.
36:01Jacqueline Novak:At this point, we're like, we're getting to like. I have one more call. All right. For you to make. Because you want to make it right. Mm hmm. This is the guy who told me, hey, my technician says your house may have been dirty. This is the guy, the guy who said to me, he also said to me, I want you to be happy. I said, I can't be happy. There's shit all over my house. Is this a text? Yeah, I'm looking. This is on the phone. And he said, send me the photos. And I did send the photos. And he looked at them and he was like, and then, and then he was one who said, I can't do more than the discount I've given you.
36:35Jacqueline Novak:This is his number. You can say, you can say, it's your, I'm your tenant. I'm your tenant with him. I don't think I've been threatened with that. Yeah. But he's, he's the real, he's kind of the real villain to me. I forgot who he is. He's, he's pro star. He's this, he's, he's the manager of the guy who came to my house. is there anything is there anything that more can be done I really want you to call him this is the this is the no it's from my phone what that's from it's my phone why is that a problem okay sure go on speaker
37:12Kate Berlant:oh I see what you're saying I'm going to leave oh you wrote I'm going to leave a scathing review unless I have the remainder refunded I paid$4.50 to have my house ruined yeah yeah this is a nightmare you're right it's on every surface there's okay you've given him an erotic photo of the bottom of your foot just like full foot full 100 foot okay okay he's already sold that online i think if you call him and you go real sweet is there anything we can do well that i will never say those words that is like you tell me what i'm worth i mean you know what i mean like hey is there anything you can That's like the opposite of what I am.
37:55Kate Berlant:I'm going to go with full transparency. Okay, you say I'm her friend, whatever. I got to feel it. Go speaker.
38:01Jacqueline Novak:I hold it close.
38:03Kate Berlant:I'm sorry. You can't leave a message because the person you called has a voicemail box that hasn't been set up yet. Goodbye.
38:11Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, he blocked me too. Fine, I'll try it. Great. They're running the business on like burners. By the way, something is weird here. Like something is weird. you're not i'm not gonna call it oh sorry sorry okay this is good my palms are sweaty now i want peace now i want peace well i want to change this is the thing i'm like
38:32Kate Berlant:i want to explore i'd like the money back but i want peace
38:38okay hold on um this is about i'm sorry you can't leave a message because the person you
38:47Kate Berlant:called has a voice mailbox that's what happened when i tried to call for you so here's here's where it's at okay yeah it's over okay something out of outside of your control happened you've lost 450 on on another and another 400 to clean it yeah like something happened to you that you're gonna have to pay for it happens right yeah it's also a part of so it happens okay it's a getting fucked by businesses is a part of life right getting getting back like it's literally a part of life you know what i really saw on this you hear these stories of people who
39:25Jacqueline Novak:are in legal battles for like 4 000 years with companies and they go it's not about the money anymore i know it's about the principle right and that you gotta let it go well because also take
39:34Kate Berlant:that if it's about justice okay or it's about whatever certainly take that bring it out i'm releasing i feel it okay i'm getting it out okay because like i could get into an argument you know on the street with someone like yeah it's like where are you putting what you feel lost no no
39:55Jacqueline Novak:i feel i feel because you know what you mean i just felt i felt compassion for the for the world and for humanity and how people you know and that was i was thinking about someone driving in their car right and we all had this experience someone flips you off or something and you and it wasn't really deserved or something and you're like that person is going through it right right or like i was on the freeway the other day and this person was driving like a fucking maniac and came up behind me so fast dangerous flashing brights flashing brights trying to intimidate me or you know what i mean i was like it's really scary that person is going through something right they had their chimney they were just they were betrayed by their chimney yeah the molestation is passed down yeah i mean so it's like and i and i went i was trying to say you know what i thought about because because on the way here yeah i flip someone off
40:43Jacqueline Novak:but that's why i feel bad because then i carry the anger you and me it's like i don't want to flip people off i won't be angry the chimney the chimney man wins again if i'm angry well sure
40:55Kate Berlant:but but also where i thought you were headed okay i'm disappointed you're not now i'm gonna I zelle him a thousand dollars.
41:02Jacqueline Novak:Well, that's always fun. That'd be fine. Should I zelle him a dollar and say.
41:09Kate Berlant:I'm going to give you a dollar every day.
41:20Jacqueline Novak:I was traveling the other day and I got in an altercation with a fellow and I was able to yell at a man. And OK, so I'll tell you what happened. All right. Let me walk you through it. So I'm arriving from I've been in New York for monstering my show. I'm arriving back in L.A. I have a lot of bags. And by the way, folks, I went and purchased in a way suitcase in a hurry because I had could not fit. the stuff I went into a way I got the um the big one yeah not the hugest one but not the carry-on flex the size up whatever it's great I know the one so I run out I get that I'm like okay I'm doing it I have so I have a huge what I'm trying to say is I had two really big bags a small bag a shoulder bag I had too much stuff I'm trying to justify right now that I, when I landed in LA, I got a curbside pickup from Uber because I couldn't manage the shuttle on my own.
42:17Jacqueline Novak:It was 11 PM.
42:18Kate Berlant:Are you saying that you just had, you described having so many bags to justify getting an Uber? Yeah. Like not taking the shuttle. It's crazy. To what?
42:28Jacqueline Novak:Who cares? To the Uber center? At LAX, we have to take the shuttle. Remember you've seen me take the shuttle. Yes. Yes. To take the shuttle to like the area and it was crowded, whatever. So I thought, You know what? I'm just doing it. I'm getting curbside. And so this, so I'm waiting. The Uber driver calls me. He's like, there's a lot of traffic at the airport. I'm 10 minutes away. Sorry. I was like, that's fine. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm see the car start to pull up and I see, check the license plate. Oh, it's my car. I start to struggle to get my bags over to it. And then I see this guy who's loading all his stuff.
43:01Jacqueline Novak:I can hear it and I can feel it. I can feel the struggle. I can feel all of it. Oh yeah. You can't imagine the bag loses. No, when the bag slips from the shoulder contact with my shoulder slips down I curse it yeah so then I'm seeing this man loading his stuff into my uber with his girlfriend or what have you I go oh no and I go oh maybe I'm wrong and then I look down and go no that is my car so I walk over he's in his girlfriend's in he's in he's about to close the door and I say so politely I go yes oh overly classic oh no right yeah oh i go oh even though you'd known for my voice up 10 octaves of course i go oh sorry i think i even said sorry maybe i said all right oh oh um i think this is my uber yep and he goes it's not he goes it's not and slams the door and i go wait oh slams it from
43:57Kate Berlant:the outside and he's about to move around to his side because he just put his his no sorry he's in He goes, the window is like, he pulls it closed. Pulls it closed. He pulls it closed. Okay.
44:06Jacqueline Novak:He looks at me, he goes, it's not and slams the door. And I go, Jesus asshole. And I said, I don't know who the fuck raised you. I didn't say fuck. I said, I don't know who raised you, but learn some manners. Oh my gosh.
44:17Kate Berlant:Wait, hold on.
44:19Jacqueline Novak:Full throated. Whose Uber is it? And he goes, don't you want to hear the rest of the story? I'm sorry. I thought, I thought you were done. Okay, go on. Oh, I'm not done. So I'm trying to think of what the first contact was or no, maybe, no, he goes, it's not, he slams. I go, Jesus asshole. And he goes, what? No. Yeah. And then he goes, what? And I go, I don't know who raised you, but you should really learn some manners. You should learn how to talk to people with some decency.
44:46Kate Berlant:No.
44:47Jacqueline Novak:And he goes, hell yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then the Uber starts to drive away. I look down. It was my Uber. Okay. So I look down and I see on the app, it says heading to my address and I go, yeah, I knew it. So I immediately call the driver. The car is gone. Not super quick, but it's like, you know, half a block down the thing. Is his name Kate?
45:09Kate Berlant:Her name Kate?
45:10Jacqueline Novak:So I call the driver. I call the driver and I go, hi. And he goes, that's, and the driver's apologetic. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I go, that's okay. And he's like, can you come this way? I go, yeah. So I, so then I start lugging again, the huge bag, the other huge bag, the carry on wheelie and my shoulder bag. I am. And by the way I pick up the pace because I go I want to see this course you don't want him and I'm literally I'm not joking in the night almost cackling I say out loud I fucking can't wait to see him I'm I'm practically skipping yes yes so I get there the driver he's already unloaded the stuff the driver's like I'm so sorry they still there that was their name and yeah no no I don't see him yet and I go that's okay it's not your fault and then I I literally drop my bags at the back to to he's gonna, you know, I drop my bags.
46:02Jacqueline Novak:I go looking for him. I walk to the front. I'm looking around. I see him. What I interpret as cowering, because there was a this like big column. He's like way in the back.
46:14Kate Berlant:There's always a column at LAX. I'll tell you that much. And he's he's back at the column. I know him well.
46:19Jacqueline Novak:I go and I go and I put my hands in a prayer position. I bow and I go have I go. Thank you so much, asshole. Have a great night. No, you said asshole again. Yes. Oh, did I say asshole maybe no maybe I didn't say asshole I said I said no no I think I just I I grasped I clasped my hands yes thank you and I went thank you so much have a great night and then and the girlfriend goes like all right that's enough and I go teach your boy and I go put I think I said like what did I say something like teach your boyfriend how to like I realized fucking I said something about like yeah yeah something like that like I wish it I wish I remember what it was but it was something good baby and i felt and when i tell you i felt so vindicated and so alive and so good because i will the only circumstance i will do that if you are so outwardly aggressively rude yes and it's like there's just no no and by the way you were wrong like you should have you made like i mean there really was there i would have okay he was
47:20Kate Berlant:cowering in a way that you felt he was hoping to not have an interaction and by the way there's something else I did too.
47:26Jacqueline Novak:There's something else I did too. And then later I was reflecting on the story. I was like, did I go too hard? But then, but then I get in the car, I'm laughing with the Uber driver. The Uber driver goes, he offered me, he said, I said, Kate. And the girl, I guess, said yes. And then she was like, and then he just like offered me cash. So he did. He was, he was purposely trying.
47:46Kate Berlant:He knew. I have a lot to say about this. So that's not cool. So his technique, we got to watch out for his technique. We're going to discuss his technique in a second. Don't forget.
47:54Jacqueline Novak:Okay. Okay. So then, so then, and I said to the driver, the driver and I are laughing and I go, and I go, I really don't talk to people like that, but he was just being, it was just outrageous. It was so rude. I couldn't believe it. And the driver said, no, no, he was being, you know, that's crazy. So then we're pulling up, he gets in his other car. So let's see the guy, just if you had waited three more minutes, I see the guy in his car, they pull off. I'm up next to them. No, two cars next to each other. Yeah. Yeah. And And I stick and I flip them off because I know he's there. My Uber driver's loving it.
48:25Jacqueline Novak:He's laughing. We're having fun.
48:30Jacqueline Novak:That was POOG. If you enjoyed POOG, please subscribe, rate, and review. If not, we will press charges.
From the publisher
Emails were drafted, calls were made, and a law office was opened. This week the hags bring you their second installment of grievances, injustices and scams: A woman’s right to steal at Sephora, paranoia when Mark from Bank of America calls, and a stolen uber at LAX will not go unpunished. There’s soot everywhere, and Kate is feeling furious, wronged and abused. Welcome back to the Law Offices of Berlant and Novak.