REMIX: The Unconscious Hours

15:39Kate Berlant:like are you asleep like and i was like oh yeah sorry that happens so it's almost always it's shut the fuck up is honestly like one of the biggest ones yeah i could go like wake myself up

15:50Jacqueline Novak:shut the fuck up yeah it's like it's like that is complete declarative dead clear anger yeah

15:59Kate Berlant:and and there's something and i think it's really like relevant and significant yes it is like it's always that I am in these dreams I feel I'm being sort of wronged yes or someone's really got it wrong okay and this like desire to explain myself or clarify or whatever and like the frustration and then whatever just comes flying out and it's it activates the body it's hysterical I don't know it's like disturbing but yeah it's shut the fuck up it's like

16:25Jacqueline Novak:fuck you or like oh fuck you that was another one one morning you said fuck you oh my god yeah

16:39Kate Berlant:Well, there is a big question with lucid dreaming, which is, are you actually astral projecting? Maybe not a big question, but some people, there's a bit of a confusion between whether you're astral projecting or lucid dreaming. And what's the difference, right? What's the difference? Now, in theory, you know, I guess just classic lucid dreaming would be you are in your dreamscape and that's it, right? And you're controlling what's going on and et cetera, et cetera, right? But astral projection is this concept that you have an astral body and that when you dream, you are actually moving about the astral plane of existence in your astral body, right?

17:16Kate Berlant:Or that this can sometimes happen as a result of lucid dreaming because your body is asleep and your consciousness is active and super conscious because now it's aware that it's dreaming, right? Now you're in a real position to activate the astral form and step away. Now, And the astral form is connected to the abdomen, okay, by a silver cord that stretches thinner and thinner the farther away you go from your body, et cetera, et cetera. It doesn't give the people the basics of astral.

17:40Jacqueline Novak:And by the way, for those lucid dreaming, we should define lucid dreaming as when you dream, but you know you're dreaming. So you're completely asleep and you're in the dream, but you're able to manipulate it and you're fully aware, oh, this is a dream. And you can manipulate your surroundings and it's pure heaven. Mine always turns sexual almost immediately.

17:54Kate Berlant:Right. And that's not because you go, okay, here I am, what I want to do. Well, the classic for me is there's different versions of reality testing, right? No, but the different versions of reality testing is a thing. So with lucid dreaming, right? During the day, you're supposed to test reality by doing things that don't work in a dream. So you look at a number on a piece of paper. It says 532. You look away. You look back. It says 532 again still. Then you're awake, right? In dreams, apparently that can't happen. You also can't turn lights on and off, okay? so these so you practice wait you haven't heard any of this what no boy those books are unread

18:33Jacqueline Novak:on the nightstand i got to page seven one exercise this is like stare at my hands like you focus on your hands for a long time before you go to sleep and then so when you when you're like am i dreaming you look down at your hands and you're like oh i'm dreaming it's like creating these little

18:44Kate Berlant:touchstones for you even better i think are these these tests okay so during the day you practice continually checking am i dreaming okay of course you know you're not worried about you know it's not like I think you are, but you get into a habit of always doing that or looking at your watch, seeing the time, looking away, looking back. If the number remains, okay, because that can't happen in a dream. They also say you can't change light in a dream. Like if you turn on a light, you can't turn a light on or off in a dream, whatever, that kind of thing, right? So then you get in the habit of doing that.

19:12Kate Berlant:Then when you're asleep, you, you know, your dream, you're doing it because it's a habit and then you realize you're dreaming, whatever, right? Then you can simple sort of classic thing is things to note are if you can't dial a number on a telephone and it's driving you crazy and it won't work. It was a classic kind of anxiety dream thing. Maybe it's a dream. So like if your tech isn't working in the way that like. Then that's what wakes you realize it's a dream. Yes. Another one is if you see someone, you realize they're dead. You're like, wait, you can't be here. You're dead. Right. Right. You died a number of years ago.

19:47Kate Berlant:Then you realize you're lucid dreaming and I classically one time was dreaming and was talking to a late cousin of mine realized oh wait this means I'm lucid dreaming and immediately ditched the conversations put my hands above my head and soared into the trees okay and like I could have like stayed and you know asked him about the afterlife because some people feel like those are you know those dream visitations are real visitations from the spirit world yeah but I just like I was like hold on zoomed into the trees and then was just soaring looping looping arcing through trees that were not only green okay they were lush the sun was filtering through them and they were lilac they were a pale pink they were green there was yellows it was beautiful god that sounds nice the

20:35Jacqueline Novak:last lucid dream i had i just remember because they say that if you start reading about lucid dreaming and start or start thinking about like you will start to like as soon as you kind of introduce it into your waking life, then it just be, you're more likely to actually conjure them. And I, you know, famously, of course, read like seven pages of a book and then fell asleep that night. I was in a dream. And my, the only lucid dreamy moment I had was I was like, I realized, Oh, I'm dreaming. Oh shit. And there was a closet. And I said, open the closet. I said, okay, I'm going to see Michael Jackson in the closet.

21:02Jacqueline Novak:And I opened the closet. Nothing was there. I moved the clothes to the side and there was a painting of Michael Jackson in the back of the closet so it's so yes it was like it was like a rich oil painting like the colors were so real yes and the clothes i feel like i could feel the fabric on my hands like push the clothing aside i mean it's so it's it's a radical experience lucid dreaming well why and yet here i am just yeah so just read the book i can have a whole second life and that's what they talk about with lucid dreaming it's like you can't have another life you can work out kind of issues like you can

21:37Kate Berlant:actually work out as well honestly i believe that if you do ab work in the dream state okay it will trigger things in the brain that will release hormones that will tighten those abs that's a little belief of mine but what i've done in in those states okay where to me it's sort of am i loose dreaming or i'm aiming to astral project that has been how i go to sleep for the last 10 years okay i go to sleep trying to leave my body and on the occasions that i've sort of half done it maybe through um this dreaming you know unclear what i've done is i go through walls okay and that's exciting there's an idea that you so you stick your arm through the wall okay because you could do that when you're astral and then and then yeah and then you feel around what's in there and i felt like sometimes i stuck my arm in the wall and i felt things that were like what would be in the wall you know what i mean like wiring and rats wow do you just drop your gua sha that must have been it it was no i've been dying to get off skincare and into the spiritual and here we are and yet the gua sha calls out by dropping on the floor i know you will not be taking over today sir all right um so but do you fly in your dreams yes i mean because going through the wall and into the sky okay okay is big like that's pretty much what i do when when i mean taking flight come on taking flight is is and sometimes oh i had a huge realization about dreams recently okay this is huge i've been meaning to ask people then i forget all right do you have any locations locations settings whatever i guess it could be characters that exist in your dreams in a recurring fashion consistently the same that do not exist in real life okay no i feel like i'm never in a place more than once okay so let me so so let me give you the examples because i feel like i didn't even notice that i do this because it is the second life there like i just took it for granted okay i've realized here's some of them i've been like logging them there's a discount store in my brain okay that exists in a place in my hometown where there is none.

23:52Kate Berlant:Okay. And, and often I have to run there in my recurring dream in which, um, I have this recurring dream that it's Christmas morning or late Christmas Eve. And I haven't gotten everybody in my family, a gift. Okay. And I have to try to run out and see if I can find something that looks suitable from like a CVS. Okay. But there's this discount store. This is my dream. The other one, there's a comedy club somewhere in Ohio. Okay. Okay. And, And and it has a very and this is a comedy club that in my mind, almost every time I try to go do a set there, I'm late. OK, I'm late. And I'm like, is the guy mad at me from last time being late?

24:31Kate Berlant:It's a specific comment. I've done comedy sets on there multiple times. OK, in my dreams. OK, there's there's a sort of I was going to say discount again, but it's not. Oh, there's a specific kind of Barnes and Noble type place that has a thing in the center.

24:45Jacqueline Novak:I don't have these.

24:46Kate Berlant:Can you believe it? I feel like you might, though, not really. There's a hotel, like a weird hotel. They're all kind of like extensions of places that do exist. Isn't that just wild?

24:57Jacqueline Novak:I just realized it. It is another world. No, when you really start to think about it, the way we just accept dreaming, we're like, you're born and you dream. It's like, wait, go back. What?

25:15Jacqueline Novak:I was falling asleep last night. watching a film, is there anything better than the, the quality of the sleep that you slip into while watching a movie? Unreal. And then I felt myself doing it now. I felt myself doing the thing where again, I was watching it with my partner and I was trying to hide that I was falling asleep. So this is one of the biggest react to it. And then I go, I go, oh wait, how about I'm, and then jolted myself awake. But then that sleep that the. Jolted. Well, try to, you know, wake up, wake up. I don't know. Just, you know, because it was like, I suggested we watch it.

25:53Jacqueline Novak:And then here I am falling asleep. You know, it's rude. But the delish, the velvety sleep that can only come from watching something.

26:01Kate Berlant:Well, there's, to me, it feels like the brain and the sounds of the TV and whatever story is lulled you into, they're like, they're in this handshake. Okay. And then the fear that if the person you're with discovers you're asleep, that they'll turn it off. Suddenly it's like, my brain was hanging from the handshake with that sound. If you now remove the silence, free fall. The sleep will go. Yeah, totally. It's action thrillers for me. That's what it was. That's what I want every night. Okay, see, this is interesting

26:35Jacqueline Novak:because that's not my usual genre and it's certainly not my usual fall asleep genre. It's like... So is that what it was? What it has come to. This is fascinating.

26:49I watched a documentary in the vein of, sorry, in a vein of like a what the bleep do we know, for example.

26:57Kate Berlant:OK, it appeared on, I don't know, Amazon or something. And I was like, well, that's for me. And it's like all these psychic experiments. And but they bring in, you know, scientists and they measure and they see. And it was pretty satisfying. And I'll find the title and I'll reference it in the future. But it got me back onto wanting to charge up my water with words. Oh, yeah. I'm back in, baby.

27:20Jacqueline Novak:I'm back in. Okay. Everything. Maybe I'll do some water charging this week.

27:24Kate Berlant:Also, put a word under your bed.

27:25Jacqueline Novak:Under a candle is classic. Right. Ritualization. When I was in the eighth grade, I stole the school ID from a boy that I thought was cute. And I slept with it under my pillow for weeks. Nothing happened. That's interesting.

27:39Kate Berlant:Under your pillow concept. I mean, what is that?

27:42Jacqueline Novak:I love that. It's very appealing.

27:44Kate Berlant:Well, you know what it is? I think the idea of doing psychic work in your sleep on the level of the subconscious, right, is appealing. Absolutely. Like setting the intention. You know, someone sent us, it was beautiful and we've posted, but a beautiful silk dyed pillowcase. And it was so kind because they sent one to me and one to you and they use the same plant dye on both. And they wrote a beautiful note saying, you know, you and Kate can sleep on the bed. this and maybe beautiful like the plant eyes will connect you and you can astral project and like hang out with each other on the astral field or whatever something along those lines and i was like yes exactly i remember years ago reading about astral projection these people leaving their body at night literally two friends in high school and they would or three friends two would would go astrally over to the other person's house at night like and like call the other person out of their their body and then three spirits would all go flying off amazing on the astral realm soaring through the through the world if we're why aren't we doing that no

28:43Jacqueline Novak:we have to prepare humiliating yeah we have to do that we should be doing that let's actually get into that let's get into that we can do it it's real let's get into that in a more intense way because then also i get excited about prepping for the afterlife right exactly if you don't

28:55Kate Berlant:strengthen it now i mean you know you're fucked i i i've always felt and yeah and um but if we could ask to project i mean people do it you need to just read like the three books i've read you'll be completely like on board and you'll be dying to do it at night. The rope method where you pull yourself out by imagined rope above your, above your head, you pull yourself out of your body and up through the ceiling.

29:17Jacqueline Novak:Ooh. And then where do you go exactly? Um, you can, I have to read my lucid dreaming book. That's kind of for me, my dream, since I started, you know, my dream journal, I'm writing again, when I was in New York, I only wrote maybe a couple, but every morning writing down the dreams, my dreams are so much more vivid now. And I feel like the next logical step is to strengthen up the lucid dreaming, which I think somehow does fold into astral projection.

29:42Kate Berlant:It does. Because there's a lot of question of sort of, am I lucid dreaming or am I astral projecting that can go on? And different people have different feelings about this. I'm like, well, as long as you're having an interesting experience, kind of like who cares, but there are differences because I think the difference primarily would be in astral projection, arguably you might be like doing remote viewing. Okay. So in astral projection, you could actually like, there there are like stories you know in these books it's like someone asked for projects they find themselves over at their boss's house and they overhear the boss saying the thing about whatever and the next morning they say by the way i didn't do the i didn't misfile that yeah i didn't misfile the file as you said to janny last night okay but then what does the boss do

30:24Jacqueline Novak:the boss says what what well yeah yeah i mean i mean it's just it's just so you can get information

30:30Kate Berlant:that you otherwise would seemingly not have access to. Okay.

30:34Jacqueline Novak:I don't know if I want that. Isn't that kind of one of the great joys of having a body? Separating you from others? That which is exactly the actual fact that we can't be everywhere else. So we can't hear things not meant for us, that there is a world of secrets. Absolutely. Like it's the thing of like, do you want to know when you're going to die? Absolutely not. And this is why right now, psychics for me, it's a no. Get out of here with that.

31:01Kate Berlant:I've always felt I need one. I need I need to wake up one hour past the opposite hour at which I went to bed. So if I went to bed at eight, I'm not truly rested until nine a.m. I need to go to one in ideal circumstances.

31:18Jacqueline Novak:What's your hour? Because I find for me, seven and a half hours is great. Nine hours is great. It actually kind of just sets me off. I heard once that seven and a half hours is actually more restful than eight hours. I know what you're thinking. Half hour. Yeah, it's actually.

31:34Kate Berlant:No, I'll tell you exactly what it is. It needs to be. It's an hour and a half slash three hour cycles. OK, I believe. OK. I was one of the early researchers. OK. OK. Sleep therapies, various modalities, of course, you know, between 99 and 2004. Just personal, personal work. God, I love sleep. You know, I ordered from Switzerland's one of the first smart sleep things. It was like it was like you put it on your wrist. It's a piece of technology that no one had but me. OK. And it was before the Apple Watch, before all this. OK, this little thing you put on your wrist and it sensed where you were in your sleep cycle in order to awaken you.

32:16Kate Berlant:This was because I had profound sleep issues known as. It would shake you awake. Like, what do you mean? No, it was just it was an alarm, but it waited until the right moment in your cycle. Oh, you could tell whether you were finishing up REM sleep. I've always found it embarrassing that REM sleep. OK, that it's pronounced REM. Like it's, you know, rapid eye movement section of sleep. OK, like it's obviously REM. But like they've gotten sloppy and just they're calling it REM, which I find humiliating. Do you know what I mean? Like stick with the acronym. I mean, whereas I get it.

32:49Jacqueline Novak:See, I didn't know you used to struggle with sleep. I'm blessed with the gift of sleep Famously as a baby they would have to wake me up to feed me Get ready Kate

32:57Kate Berlant:No I suffer from hypersomnia Oh I did know this about you Well the 27 hour sleeps The sleep attacks I would have that I then would you know Miss the day job

33:09Jacqueline Novak:Not 27 hours

33:10Kate Berlant:And when you say you mean you're going to sleep And then you wake up So here's what would happen There would be moments where Brutal

33:19Jacqueline Novak:Well, I just want to say if there's an earthquake in the next 10 minutes, I sense one coming now. I just want to say that now. OK, so as a kind of just because I would hate to have this thought. I would hate to have a feeling like this. Like, is there a earthquake about to happen? That happens. You don't ever believe me. And I just want to say it. I'm sorry. And I really don't want an earthquake. But I did the last kind of not major earthquake. But there was an earthquake in L.A. several months ago that really gave a shake. Like I'm from L.A. And I for many, you know, I was reason I moved. It was long enough to be like, hello.

33:47Jacqueline Novak:It was scary. I was completely nude. I had nothing to do. Wait, hold on. I just want to say that the last earthquake, I the night of the earthquake around 9 p.m. I was like, all we need right now is an earthquake. And I had this earthquake feeling mere hours later. Rumble was heard. OK, so I'm just saying that if I'm not going to what I hope I'm wrong, but I just we'll just see. Can you imagine if within the recording one hit?

34:10Kate Berlant:You didn't feel the one a few months ago. There was a big one. I mean, it wasn't the big one, by the way. Another concept I'm obsessed. I can't go into the big one. I can't go into the big one. I've lost too much sleep over the big one. Okay, but no, but I moved because here's what happened. So there was an earthquake at my last apartment. This one really shook me. Oh, God. Oh, I was trying to say about no pun intended, by the way. I was trying to say about no pun intended, okay? Okay, there's no more saying no pun intended, okay? Because what everybody means by no pun intended is pun intended.

34:42Kate Berlant:That's what they fucking mean. Or they mean it's clearly a celebration and a leaning into the pun, which is why I commit to. And I know I sort of didn't just do it now, but I commit to just if I accidentally make, you know, a pun. OK, I just going to stone face it right on through. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. And carry the fuck on. You're not a pun person. Exactly. The lowest form of humor. Some say sarcasm. Is the lowest? Yeah, yeah. I remember someone said that once. Oh, I deplore sarcasm. What? I deplore sarcasm. Oh, well, no. I mean, earnesty, you know. Or do I? I mean, I don't know.

35:21Kate Berlant:No, we love sarcasm. We love it all.

35:22Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, I don't deplore it. Wait, hold on. Take me back. Sorry, I interrupted you about my sending from an interruption. I love it. It fills me. Thank you. But I do want to bring you back to what you were saying because I was riveted about your 27-hour sleep.

35:34Kate Berlant:So, of course, I've always loved sleep, okay? I remember as a child, not wanting to go to school. and just because I wanted to sleep and my mother's saying you can sleep when you get home and I would be like like after school you can get back in bed okay and I was like but I won't want to then you know what I mean I want you as my daughter always goes back to that for me I wonder please reincarnate

35:56Jacqueline Novak:as my daughter but I don't want you to have to die for me to have you imagine just just knife to the

36:01Kate Berlant:throat I get control of my soul in such a fashion this is where I can knife it to the throat and immediately drop into your emerging baby yeah body leaping all right amazing so whatever sleeping right so yeah i'd have these sort of sleep attacks where i'd go to sleep or i'd fall asleep in kind of a state of stress i guess you could say and then i would be deep in the sleep and then there would be these times where i sort of come to okay oh what time is it okay look at it's like it's like light out or it's dark out i can't i can't interpret what it means you know what I mean and all okay and then I'm like oh no how long have I sleep and then out again okay out again so that's the key so then I'm out again then years pass okay because in the dream it would often be these sort of epics right years pass inside of the dream is what I'm saying okay yeah I live a life you know it's a whole thing we know about this you know I go to that comedy club in Ohio and my dreams kick that only right there was yeah and there's a sense of urgency there's also a sense of I haven't completed the dream and so I need to go back to it.

37:04Kate Berlant:But anyway, I'd be pulled back under. So it was like, you know, I was only surfacing, but my body was still under. I was surfacing to get a breath of conscious life and then sucked back through the undertow of sleep. Drop down again. You're almost hypnotizing me

37:17Jacqueline Novak:into sleep. I feel like I can fall asleep right now. I do have that of talking about it like this.

37:21Kate Berlant:All right.

37:24Jacqueline Novak:I just mean you're like, no, right. Pulling, pulling into the sleep.

37:28Kate Berlant:Also because I slept so long last night. No, right. The 11 hours. hours that began this. Okay, well, the whole thing is when you hit 11, sometimes now you're even more tired. So this, maybe I'd wake up, maybe I wouldn't, but eventually sort of come to, and I would have to roll out of bed, literally, okay, to wake myself. I had to force myself to fall off the bed. Do you see what I'm saying? So a hard thought on the ground would help the process. And then I remember specifically in New York, stumbling down to the, well, first I'd see the roommate on the way out and they'd go, oh my God, I guess you didn't go to work today.

37:59Kate Berlant:And I would start to plan my email to the ad agency. And there were so many issues. And it was like, you know, it was like the period of depression and and related issues. Right. And the effect on things like not going to work. You go through the phase or I went through the phase of, you know, long apologies, explaining, trying to explain the whole thing. And then you move past that where you're just like and you just get to this point of just like, OK, all I can do is apologize for my behavior and the effects it caused and let the chips fall where they may right it's almost just like this sort of like i'd be like so i slept through work obviously i was not there you noticed okay and then i like take out obviously it's like what you know right right right it's like i slept for 27 hours i'm sorry i plan to be in tomorrow okay and then it would make it harder to go back because i felt ashamed but anyway right right anyway also sleeping through

38:54Jacqueline Novak:your alarm is one thing being like oh my god i just woke up but sleeping the whole day yeah i

38:59Kate Berlant:mean there was and i'm working on it with a physician you know like this kind of shit yeah it's exhausting right so so but yeah the 27 hours where i'd stumble downstairs i remember going to the store in the corner and and vitamin water so i'd wake up with this kind of thirst that could only be quenched by sugary drinks okay and i would i would pound two vitamin water like you know

39:19Jacqueline Novak:when did vitamin water launch when was that because i feel like i such a clear what when was that moment in like health and wellness because that's like right before because it was the wellness industry wasn't right but it was like there's vitamins in it and it's like sleep recharge energy beauty right it was all of them but then it's all just laced with you know cyanide

39:39Kate Berlant:in a in a corner store in new york me staring at a vitamin water's ingredients and and a man

39:45Jacqueline Novak:going my words pure sugar it's very like but but the labeling was genius because it had that kind of medical yes the color block slash yes it reminds me of Moby's music I feel like Moby dropped an album right when vitamin water came out or something like yes why do I disassociate with Moby and vitamin water well no I think I think you're actually right

40:15Kate Berlant:Speaking of death, sleep, I do want to tell you about the sleep doctor. So I would have these, you know, these sleep attacks where, yes, I would sort of come to for a second, but immediately be plunged back into the depths. And, you know, it was obviously quite destructive to my lifestyle and my life or my job, gainful employment. And so I did set up and part of this was almost me being like, OK, so you know how I slept through work again? Like I am going to this doctor to I'm going to the sleep specialist at Cornell, you know, whatever. And I go and this was a disaster. I overslept. OK, trying to go to the sleep clinic.

40:54Kate Berlant:OK, and woke up at like 4 p.m. And I was due there at like 430 to sleep there all night. Yes. Yeah. And so I arrive bright eyed and bushy tailed. OK, to be observed for my hypersomnia. It's so funny. You know what I'm saying? Like the whole point is like, come here at night. You know, you're tired. You go to sleep. Almost like we see how long you sleep for. You know what I mean? And I'm like, 4 p.m. I'm extremely well rested. Right. 4 p.m. I wake up. I run there. I get there. I'm like, I just I've been sleeping up until like 10 minutes ago. I don't know if this is going to be effective. okay and they're like well you know it's too late now and they're putting the the electrodes on my head they're like gluing them to my head with like paper mache it's like completely ridiculous and then and then i get in the bed fall asleep you know sleep beautifully for nine hours okay after just sleeping for 13 or whatever right yeah and there's like they're kind of like this yeah no you slept beautifully you know like like yeah deep sleep all night through and and i'm like you see that that's that's weird right like that after 13 hours of sleep i was able to easily sleep another 12 and like my brain fully um went there so it was it was it was um you know there was no apnea okay there was there wasn't much so what are they what was that just a symptom of depression sorry no i spaced out i forgot so so i meet with the the woman at after this the head doctor the head researcher whatever and you know you dream of when you meet with a specialist right you dream of them telling you you're special you dream of them telling you uh something curious about you and you alone yeah you would be the subject yeah and the desire for for something to be wrong you know that whole thing and it's like she did kind of appeal to my ego in this particular way which what she said is do you suffer migraine like have you ever or have you ever had what's the thing that where they scan your brain mri i don't know where they scan your brain and can see the lesions or whatever that migraine leaves.

42:48Jacqueline Novak:No, they look like scars. Like your brain is scarred by the migraine. Right.

42:52Kate Berlant:So she says, you know, do you suffer migraine? And I go, no, I mean, I don't, not really, because I don't, no, because I know my mother does horribly. My sister does horribly. So, and I'm not having what they have. I've headaches and stuff. And she goes, well, the one other person who had the same thing as you have with this bizarre, these sleep attacks where there's nothing else seems to be wrong. When we did an MRI or whatever of her, I said, oh, you suffer migraine. I can see it on your scan. Right. And she said, no. OK, she said, no, I know what you're talking about. And the discovery or theory was that she was suffering migraines without the headache.

43:32Kate Berlant:No pain. Because technically, headache is a symptom of migraine, which is a thing happening in the brain.

43:38Jacqueline Novak:Have you had because I've had migraines that were like rarely where there's no pain, but I can just feel that I'm having it. Like I feel like kind of a weird body feeling. Right.

43:46Kate Berlant:Well, so so she thought that perhaps I mean, it makes sense. My mother, my sister, you know, both have horrible migraines. It would make sense that possibly I have the migraine happening. And, you know, and it did feel almost like a thing that obviously stress and other kinds of things were would cause. That's why it also was like, or am I just an asshole who like whose brain shuts down because I don't want to go to work? You know what I mean? like so there was all this kind of the self-hatred embedded in that but anyway i thought it was a very intriguing theory obviously i'm dying for a scan now always dying for a scan get me a scan i mean anyway it's not fascinating i thought it was pretty fucking the sleep spells that just stopped oh so yeah i was fired from the ad agency more or less they're they're not to a point where we quote reached an impasse okay i had stopped coming in i had put in a i put in a thing saying like I wrote up this letter saying trying to say I'd like to work from home from now on um and they allowed that for some time but then I started missing deadlines you know I was trying to pursue stand with comedy um whatever we reached an impasse I moved back to the suburbs I did kundalini yoga for a year and meditated and and shortly after I met you got got into all that kind of stuff and basically I I took away the stresses and then built life anew and I basically don't really have the sleep attacks anymore.

45:08Kate Berlant:I mean, it's like I remove the stressor. The stressor being what? Well, I found gigs that could support me that were remote and on my own time, you know, like and I remember this doctor because at the same time I got a battery of psychological tests, as they call this projective and objective or whatever. I was going to say psychological testing, literally Rorschach's. Have you gotten a Rorschach ever formally because yes, as a kid in your in your learning whatever days because sex sex because it was like no right right i was like i very distinctly i was like well i mean am i supposed to not acknowledge that they're all literally vaginal because they're all a imprint that's been symmetry completely yeah symmetry is going to like they're all vaginal right it's a vagina but it's all every time and then say that it looks like a wolf in a chair right and so i i over explained every single one you know like i I went out for 10 minutes, whatever, whatever, whatever.

46:02Kate Berlant:Battery of tests, whatever. I can't remember why I brought it up. Oh, yeah. The clinician was like, first of all, she said, after my whole brain profile, after she figured it all out and did the study, she goes like, first of all, I'm pretty blown away that you are not a major drug addict. She said that like the specifics of my brain, including the ADD, the combination of the various things, right? She's like, this is drug addict, like, you know, and I was like, well, I think I avoided it because I got on antidepressants early enough and so I and I was so miserable and depressed that I felt like I wasn't going to fuck around with drugs really because I was trying to but anyway I loved that can you imagine isn't that fantastic you should be a terrific drug addict you should be like I'm surprised you're not wow well thank god you were able to avoid that you know it's people always want to hear about your clinicianary experiences and I think I think you'd be curious to know about the battery of tests uh you know it's impossible to say for me to say whether or that was interesting because of course deeply captivating to me i want to talk about all my all my childhood testing and all the learning disability and the tutors and the all of it um anyway okay well and i just wanted to say you know actually i don't know i was gonna i don't know i'm feeling some shame about dragging on about my my you know oh me and the advertising agent

47:18Jacqueline Novak:who cares whatever i feel no shame i feel extraordinary shame for some of the things i've said today but guess what there's no shame here okay it's fine That was POOG. If you enjoyed POOG, please subscribe, rate and review. If not, we will press charges.