Soot Happens

16:24Kate Berlant:All right.

16:25Jacqueline Novak:I want this guy out of my house. So can you appreciate... You know what I mean? Like, I wanted him out of my house. I didn't want to deal with him. And so he starts going, I'll clean it. But he goes like this. I go, no, no. It's everywhere. This isn't something you can just. And the guy, he starts to go, I go, I need to talk to your supervisor or someone like, I can't pay full price for this. He goes, it's a dirty job. He starts going, look at me. No, no, no. Oh, yeah. This guy's out of his mind. He's just going, look at me. I mean, I'm in there. It's a dirty job. I'm like, well, of course it is.

17:00Jacqueline Novak:And again, I've been to this before. I've had my chimney swept. My house is normal. It's like nothing happened. So and then he goes, no, Jacqueline, are you ready for this? Yeah. I don't even know if I told you this. Oh, I do know. I'm excited. Because I come in. I know this one. I go into the other room. This is what I was waiting for. I go into the other room. I come back. And I notice in the other room, again, the hallway, there's soot. I go, there's soot in the hall. I show him the bottom of my foot. There's soot all the way in the hall. He goes, maybe your house is dirty. And I looked at him and I went, are you kidding me?

17:32Jacqueline Novak:And then he makes it. He goes, well, I go, I need to talk to someone. I never get angry. I'm not raising my voice at him at all. he goes outside starts talking to his boss comes back 70 we can take off 70 i laugh i go 70 there's so let's just stop for a second i hate that you said discount and not full refund i know i'm up on the night my dog's dislodged because all i'm thinking is why did i let him why didn't i

18:00Kate Berlant:i should what i wish i done said i'm not paying i'm not paying right and everything's fine okay because i've learned my fucking lesson no right but i'm just i'm just bringing up that point of pain okay so that just to make it lodged for next time never never let the word discount should

18:16Jacqueline Novak:never come out of your mouth okay refund refund refund only okay so not even kate kate kate and additional costs yeah oh i know okay so so this guy on the phone is fucking awful he's the manager Is he on speaker? Yeah. Okay. They go, we can take$100 off. I go, no. They go,$200 is the most we can do. And I just go, I mean, again, I want him out. I want him out. I'm just like, get out. Yeah, of course. I was like, okay. I Venmo.

18:50Kate Berlant:Don't want to get into it. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. So you hadn't paid yet. Kate. No.

18:56Jacqueline Novak:I didn't pay him anything, Jacqueline. No.

18:58Kate Berlant:So you flew into, let me give them money. You could have withheld. I know.

19:05Jacqueline Novak:You could have said, well, like. Take me to court.

19:08Kate Berlant:Yeah. Oh, I wish I had said, I'm not paying. And they would say, you have to pay. All that you have to go. And how do you spell that? And you put a little emoji of a chimney.

19:16Jacqueline Novak:I know, I know.

19:17Kate Berlant:In a heart.

19:19Jacqueline Novak:So you fucking. I want him out of my house. Right. So I have him$700. He leaves. I'm talking about maybe 25 seconds later. I noticed the curtain. I go over. I go. And then it all. I see the couch. Like it all hits me. I see the curtains and I go, oh, my God. Like I hadn't seen it. I was like blind. I was like. I immediately call the guy. The guy on the phone, his manager is so rude. Is so outrageous. Is saying. I go. I go. I need this all refunded. He goes. No. He goes. He goes. I could send my my cleaning guy to you still hadn't talked to me no okay he goes I I could I could send my cleaning guy to you I go yeah you give me a refund and send the cleaning guy he goes no it's what I give you I'll give you another 250 or the cleaning person no no I want the money back he goes oh so it's not dirty you just want the money back no no no wait wait wait oh yeah

20:15Kate Berlant:Okay, so I, this, okay. So this sort of thing gets me, okay, because my heart races and goes when something's like wrong. As you know, this is why I like to, we were talking about, I like to write a nine paragraph email just for my own sake of, and not send it necessarily. Just to make sure that my argument is perfect and I want to be unimpeachable at all times. Well, by the way, I need your help because I will be doing that. I'm going to send a formal email. Because you will sort of go with emotion, which has its value, okay. but I want to be un-fucking impeachable if I'm gonna you know what I mean like I want to be a I want to be a viper like exactly nothing there's no you know what I mean it's like so when things happen in an exchange okay where where like tense conversation like this is so almost upsetting to me because you don't necessarily have all the tools in the moment I know it's like literally like rhetoric I was shaking someone can confuse you I know I know and they say something back to And I'm not a fighter.

21:14Jacqueline Novak:I'm like, I was shaking. Like, I was just like, yeah. And then I was like, excuse me. And he goes, my technician said that the house was dirty. There were cobwebs. There is a, and by the way, here's where you go with unimpeachable.

21:31Kate Berlant:In the corner above the living room, there was 100 % a cobweb. And by the way, a cobweb is not soot. And by the way, this is another impeachable thing. See, this is where I go further than you, okay? You go, my house isn't dirty. My house isn't dirty. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I know. I'm mad. If your house had food smeared, because that's how you like to live, on every wall surface, and they put soot on top of that, they have an issue. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Get the soot off of the food I've smeared on my wall. Okay. So, I think.

22:03Jacqueline Novak:So, I, he goes, I'll give you another$250, which means I'm getting half off,$450 off. and I go you're comfortable charging me 450 dollars to have paid I like that that's good yeah yeah to have soot sprayed over my house I go your technician did not bother to put drop cloth yeah proper drop cloths down and also by the way the the sweet sweet couch cleaning guy I told him what happened he goes oh my god he said sounds like he must have somehow had he said some reference to some like something's supposed to be outside it was like it was like the vacuum was like

22:39Kate Berlant:spraying everything yeah like like sounds like he didn't yeah exactly touch the thing inside yeah

22:43Jacqueline Novak:it's like something i was like yeah the x yes and i just go oh god so so i have the i have the half off my partner and i i don't want to give actually them credit they fucking spring into action they start cleaning hard we are on all four by the way ruined i mean we were like by the way

23:01Kate Berlant:me hours me like remembering that like you have a partner that i can actually i don't have to like be your whatever it's funny yeah like because i'm like in an old mindset or something that you have to protect me yeah that i have to like husband you yeah totally no i need like four husbands but like

23:22Jacqueline Novak:so we're cleaning we're cleaning i mean it's just devastating no no i have tons and with every trying to know with every new witness with every new soot cloth it's like i can't believe this happened and anyway so i start calling so so here i'll just jump ahead and say that the company is called pro star so mr chimney like contracts out this company pro star okay and so the people that came to my actual house and did the wrecking was pro star they're like in cahoots i don't know how

23:48Kate Berlant:it works and did you know yeah now did did whenever you looked at yelp because i know you like to look at yelp for stuff you were looking at mr chimney's yelp yeah yeah yeah and no but here's do they disclose that they are pro star before it's okay no no no okay no that's why i go right when i paid i go wait i'm sorry pro star i thought it was mr chimney he's like oh well yeah like it's the same

24:10Jacqueline Novak:or whatever it was like i was like okay what wait have you talked to mr chimney oh my god let's get into it sweetheart okay mr chimney is who i'm almost the most mad at and i call mr chimney and i'm like hi i call with you and they go yes i see that you had an appointment today did it i go yes I'm confused pro someone from pro star came and they're like oh yeah that's our whatever the hell I explained to this person what happened they go okay can you send me pictures I go and you said I'm talking to the first nice person I've talked to right yeah is that the person that you said that no that was yesterday someone else no got it so I start I send all these pictures they go okay um we're gonna get back to you I go okay click I would like to tell you something no one from Mr.

24:52Jacqueline Novak:Chimney ever called me back and I called wait for it nine times and on the 10th time the manager happened to pick up interesting was remorseless did not say I'm sorry I explained everything she didn't say sorry she didn't say anything I said I'm trying to understand what happened in my house how did this happen she goes we gave you the half refund and that's all we're going to be able to do and of course I go I'll take you to small claims court did you say that Yeah. Good. She goes, okay. Oh, really? She goes, take a small claims. No. Yeah. I go, well, I'm going to eviscerate your business online.

25:29Jacqueline Novak:Wait, did you say those words? Yes. Okay. I'm really, I mean, I'm really proud of you. And she said, okay. And I go, okay, this will be fun. And I hung up. Wait, you said it'll be fun? Good. Look at me. And by the way, I want to just take a minute with this. I called nine times. And I spoke to a few people. There was one guy named Roger I spoke to. Roger was the best. He was the only one that had true remorse. He saw the photos because they were in my file. He goes, oh my God. He goes, I'm so sorry. I said, I know. I go, listen, I was like, I just want the decent thing, which is a refund. I don't get into disputes like this.

26:00Jacqueline Novak:Like I've never been treated this way by a business. Like I just want my money back.

26:04Kate Berlant:I need like, I need a, okay.

26:07Jacqueline Novak:Okay.

26:07Kate Berlant:So I start Googling, right?

26:09Jacqueline Novak:I stood everywhere. And sorry, I just want to flash forward and say one thing. I had my, I had a housekeeper come and clean my house yesterday after I had done, we'd done a lot of the cleaning and i was like oh the house looks clean that's what's so confusing right we scrub so hard we go right the house never looked better it was so clean then you go like this the soot is still it's like impossible it's micro it's so fine it's in my by the way i'm like cool so just instant cancer like i'm not fucking kidding right okay so several things here one of

26:39Kate Berlant:the key ways to think about refunds for me right and it always comes up it's like because i i i I don't like to be cheap. I don't like to whatever. Right. The question is, OK, when do you deserve a refund? Right. And the question becomes true question. What was I paying for?

27:00Jacqueline Novak:My chimney cleaned.

27:01Kate Berlant:OK. OK. Right. Right. No, but but but there's what happened with the boys from Philly. OK. OK. So I go, I go, what is a hotel? What is the most basic thing it offers? A room that locks. On a room. A locked door. A place you can lay your head, okay? Close your eyes and that had not happened. So the primary deep, deep layer. Fundamental. Yeah. Okay. It's not right. So I just want to see. This is where I get, I can feel it rising in me in excitement, okay? This is where I would want to take to the computer.

27:35Jacqueline Novak:By the way, what I want to do too, I want to craft a long, I start looking ProStar and Mr. Chimney. It's so confusing. I don't want to leave a negative review on the wrong business. So I'm looking for him going, wait, wait, I think this is not them. I called someone else to go, are you pro star this? You do chimney? They go, no, we don't do chimney sweeping. So I'm trying to find, because on the website, and then I got excited because they have a website and he goes, follow us. And I go, wait, do you? Wait, wait, wait. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

27:59Kate Berlant:No, no, I'm distracted because I'm intellectually lit up from within over the question of what deserves a refund and what is the fundamental promise, right? So I'm just seeing like, I have a few ways to go, a few angles, right?

28:12Jacqueline Novak:Okay. okay the first angle i'm seeing well the first one was what is it because you said to clean my

28:17Kate Berlant:chimney right so here here's what i need to know why do we clean chimneys what's what's up so so

28:22Jacqueline Novak:just just just so i need this information so so i don't fully fucking know but it's like you're burning shit in there it builds up and it can become a fire hazard so it's a safety issue okay it's primarily a safety issue and the people that lived in my house before me i talked to them they go we use the chimney in the fireplace we use the fireplace all the time and they go okay this is good information so it has been used used recently but like there's buildup in there because they've been using it so i was like before i light a fire in there i gotta get it clean it's california and i mean yeah you know so it's safety yeah okay interesting now i'm like literally

29:00Kate Berlant:i'm like cool i have to move now well i want to there's there's a few angles i mean there's a lot going on here okay there's you and your mental state that i'd like to address okay and let's just maybe handle that separately so you're fine there's soot in my brain okay okay okay there's

29:17Jacqueline Novak:that everything's fine my jaw has been dislocated due to the stress of the chimney so that is a

29:23Kate Berlant:narrative okay okay and unfortunately for you and this is where i'll call no i don't know the paroling maze by the way yeah and by the way i your victim i almost wanted to drop it entirely

29:32Jacqueline Novak:I actually thought and by the way I go you know what today I go because also I'm so like I don't even like someone out there like hating me you know what I mean this guy be like this fucking bitch won't like I don't even want that like I'm just like yeah I don't want to deal with this like like this is fucked up but you know like I don't want to deal

29:51Kate Berlant:with it anymore so that's a road I'm still right so that's considering so a huge concept right don't pay twice right now I'm not saying that's that's right here okay I know I know don't be twice is like you know okay so now now now you're gonna like are you gonna give over your life you have to you have to pose these questions right if your life is about if your time if you want to spend a week on this project okay we're at the end best case scenario all is as you know it's like a quest okay like a disruption in the status quo and you want to put your world back together and you're forced to go on a quest and then you learn something new okay you know what i mean like it's like it's like or you know i mean it's already been like oh kate can't do anything because of she's on all fours for the because of the chimney okay for the last couple days right

30:40Jacqueline Novak:yesterday you've already given up yesterday yesterday again i paid my i told you this i already said this i'm spiraling into like total chaos because the soap poisoning my cleaning lady came cleaned i told her what happened i was like because again the house looks clean i go she's gonna come over and go what she mopped we cleaned she mopped still yeah it's almost like you have to

31:05Kate Berlant:like in places that i don't even think wood floors no i think she she might have gotten it up and if you went right then at that moment but then in clean still then like yeah that's what i'm imagining okay so it's in my fucking lungs a thousand percent i'm not worried about that okay great

31:20Jacqueline Novak:Because like go to an airport by the campfire. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like for a couple of nights. Go on an airplane or sit by the air. The smoke goes off. Okay.

31:32Kate Berlant:Okay. I'm just saying like, like, you know, again, Dr. Greger, the body can take all manner of. Oh, I thought that yesterday. You freed me with that. Good. All manner of insult and injury. And he's like, you know.

31:43Jacqueline Novak:I need to like flow through the pain of it.

31:45Kate Berlant:Oh. But like, yeah, but I'm so I'm, you know. I'm I'm unwilling to buy in to like this whole jaw thing the jaw thing is irritating me I don't mean like actually I mean like it's bumping for me okay the jaw separate my jaw has been ruined because of the da da da okay you have this it's like technically no you're responsible for your own management of your jaw okay you know what I'm saying like that's like

32:13Jacqueline Novak:that's like damages I must have slept really crazy last night I took Because that's when I go, I need to sleep because the previous night I was up in the night about the chimney. Why did I let him leave? Why did I let him leave? I should have refused payment. Why did I let him leave? Last night I took a 10 milligram CBD gummy. It was like LSD for like six minutes. It was like too much. And I was cold.

32:35Kate Berlant:Wait, 10 milligram what?

32:37Jacqueline Novak:10 milligram. No, CBD. And I go, there had to have been THC in there. Because I was like, this is drugs. and I was like doing the thing which to me is so because I don't get like super super high yeah like generally but whenever that happens there's the thing of like when you mutter like like I was in bed with my partner and I went oh god like it was like I didn't even mean to say it I was like oh no and they were like what and it's all like social stuff it's like I think I was disrespectful earlier at the thing because I did it or I didn't are on the call I didn't express like it's like social paranoia stuff anxieties about right i wasn't polite or i didn't do this enough or or or um like literally like we had our interview we had our interview yeah i was like oh god at the interview i didn't do this or like i didn't i showed up to the interview so messy i'm

33:29Kate Berlant:like there's something you're resisting you're protecting us or yourself from saying like the specific and i which i understand that we showed up post-workout oh is that what you're protecting No, no, no.

33:40Jacqueline Novak:I mean, like, I didn't do blah, blah, blah. Like, I was just curious. No, no. I literally was like, and this is me because I'm so fucking conservative. I'm like, fucking Nancy Reagan. Yeah. I was like, in an interview, I should have, I feel like Naomi's making fun. I was like, yeah, because you didn't have like a blazer on. You know what I mean? Like, I showed up. I was like, I should have been like buttoned up, like, for the interview. Like, I have a podcast. No. Like, yeah.

34:04Kate Berlant:Yeah. Like, I was worried it was like a sign of disrespect. I mean, yeah. Yeah. anyway but i start well who cares we'll talk about our my relationship to the to the press no no but like i want to analyze that in full because that's very interesting we'll have to

34:16Jacqueline Novak:do it another time but the cbd 10 milligram i will say slept like a log but it was like but the last like seven minutes of being awake i was like this is kind of pleasant i was like but i am

34:24Kate Berlant:like high oh you know what i dreamt three tsunamis i had a full tsunami nightmare i've had those and where we're all bracing like like it like one continuous dream where and another one's coming and then and yet another one and going okay the first one didn't grabbing onto like a beam or wall yeah bracing and then seeing it moving through the windows oh and then it was like this like like you know head above water yeah okay like and wondering if the next one I wonder it was

35:00Jacqueline Novak:I wonder

35:01Kate Berlant:it was we have to look up

35:03Jacqueline Novak:what tsunami or ocean

35:04Kate Berlant:or wave is

35:05Jacqueline Novak:I mean

35:06Kate Berlant:traditionally I think it's emotion of course

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38:26Jacqueline Novak:get very hot in the night i am obsessed with them long before cozy earth became a sponsor

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41:04Jacqueline Novak:Okay, wait, I already feel a little better because I'm also feeling like, so, so, but listen, okay. But I just want to say today I pulled over to the side of the road because I'm a fucking safe driver and I was like, can't the chimney conversation while I'm driving. it's too dangerous so i moved over pulled over to the side of the road spoke to the absolute abomination of this manager allegedly mr chimney who couldn't even say sorry and i was physically shaking my hand was like like hitting like the end button i was like like my adrenals were shot yeah shaking from rage oh it's kind of a good one no it's good to release it no shaking from rage

41:40Kate Berlant:it's it's it's i actually find it i tend to find it exciting because i'm like friendly access to

41:46Jacqueline Novak:my radio i'm calling ktla i'm like i want to go news i want front page news i want to like because okay so it's two things happen to me first part i go i'm gonna eviscerate them okay and i think

41:59Kate Berlant:it's i want to separate for you okay god why am i such a fucking drag okay i'm just like i'm like what am I like you know you're a fucking therapist okay but I'm like but I'm like I think you can ask for what's right and but also not release it no that wasn't what I was gonna be saying okay I think you can you can ask for what's right without identifying as a victim I don't feel like a when you're talking about I need to call it like you're talking about Kate like perhaps no KTLA or whatever I'm like perhaps their news should be angled elsewhere well of course No, but I just mean like, right, like what you're like, what happened to me?

42:38Jacqueline Novak:I mean, there is a I let the motherfucker in my house when I knew. Listen, oh, by the way. And here's the here's the larger getting fucked.

42:46Kate Berlant:Right. Like getting fucked by, you know, by violating.

42:51Jacqueline Novak:Having soot sprayed in the home by a by a fucking man, a random man.

42:56Kate Berlant:Like I'm not I'm not saying it's good. OK, I'm saying that this is what I'm saying that. like if you were if you were emotionless about it and didn't even give a shit okay if you truly had no emotion you're a different person oh well well obviously there is cleaning right like cleaning is a thing this happens well first of all i googled immediately okay as you know and i sent you screen grabs of dust management is chimney sweep 101 on reddit someone okay and i go yes see that's it and then several people oh that's really unacceptable at bare minimum the business people who knew like at my company we would the one time it happened we paid for the cleaning and yeah of course of course it's a refund it's not you know it's not what is a discount right like a discount is like so that they're gonna make a little less profit you see what I'm saying

43:48Jacqueline Novak:anyway a discount would have been like oh like you know I'm trying to imagine what a discount like oh your technician was an hour and a half late and I had to do this and this you could maybe push push push for a discount there i wouldn't but someone maybe could you

44:03Kate Berlant:didn't it's like so you know it'd be like you know i'm gonna give you an oil change for 100 bucks i'm gonna fill your car and then they knock no so they fill the oil correctly and then spill oil everywhere else in the engine yeah yeah yeah i filled your oil okay okay it's like it's like what do you think i should do this is what i need to know so this is what i'm trying to tell you

44:24Jacqueline Novak:okay i'm just trying okay you're you're forced how am i not a victim with this because i don't i don't feel like a victim like in my life that's not my go-to right but this feel this felt really like mean because also they cast let me but they did like maybe your house is dirty oh yeah look at me i'm dirty here's what i'm trying to like i'm trying to some people feel they okay like power

44:48Kate Berlant:right they feel they only have a right to ask for the refund if they can prove to themselves and the other that they have been victimized. Okay. In which case then they have to perform their suffering for themselves and everyone else. Right. Or you could not do that. And it's still correct for them to give you the, do you see, this is what I'm trying to say where it's unimpeachable. Okay. Okay. You buy an egg, they give you a toy dinosaur, right? You don't go back. When I want to eat an egg and a toy dinosaur is there instead, I just, I get really stressed out and all my muscles tense and then I have a thing or I paid for an egg you gave me a toy dinosaur okay so what should I do then so I'm saying I'm saying you don't have to to get okay sympathy understanding like just just be happy like like you don't need to do it I am happy to get the thing I just want my money back I think okay and I want them to regret okay because this this podcast is a conversation right and i can i can yeah you yeah which i'll do sometimes right but my like what would you do my not antagonism my i would i would ask i would have to ask seriously i would have to ask over and over again is this worth my time do i value my own time do i value my own life okay because here's the thing kate okay i'll walk away here's the thing like i'll walk away 450 or like it's not the money no i know this is what i'm trying to say listen to where the voice goes okay the voice goes into child okay so you're obviously there's something here all right so you know why is it so upsetting to me do you think somebody else

46:29Jacqueline Novak:would just be like oh why is it so upsetting to me oh i know why let's hear it I think it's just like home home destruction it's like it's like deep you know what I mean it's like violating it's like trying to think of it like if I take in my car to someone and like let's say they fucked up like it's less loaded like it's like right it's like has anyone ever

46:59Kate Berlant:fucked anything up in your home before let's think about that no and you own your home okay we can cut that if you like okay but i'm just saying like i mean people own homes we don't have to act like that yeah yeah like you know what i mean it's tiny yeah yeah yeah like see this is the danger of anytime you do like for years i rent okay i know you know but anyway everything changes point is kate i think we have a huge we have a huge reveal here it's also like the first time you've been a i'm the boss homeowner yeah i had something

47:32Jacqueline Novak:And something happened to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Okay, this is the big reveal. Okay.

47:36Kate Berlant:So this is the first time you're actually experiencing that other than what is this similar to? I would say this is similar to someone fucking up, you know, for you. Someone fucking up something else that is yours entirely, like, you know, your body or something. I think you'd be pretty pissed if someone fucked up your hair. You know what I mean? Like, you know. Oh, yeah. There's a couple things here. There's one. to take a lot of the pain out of this, we need a solution for the soot. Okay. And this is what I was saying yesterday, trying to focus on. We need a soot cleaner. Okay. There's someone who, who that's what they do.

48:20Kate Berlant:I know it. Okay. So that's number one, right? If right now you came home, wait, why is this? Do you don't want that? Why have you put no time towards that? Why have I hired a cleaning. I had someone. No, but that's what I'm telling you. Soot cleaner? I'm going to look up soot cleaner. Well, you can purposefully Google, like, poorly.

48:41Jacqueline Novak:You know what I'm saying? No, but what's soot cleaner? To mock me. Oh, anti-soot. Anti-Crio soot liquid. How do professionals clean soot off the walls?

48:52Kate Berlant:Because if it's really what I'm saying. So I'm just saying it's, yeah. There are people who are professionally going after fires. You know what I mean? Like you need the correct thing. So once you know, you have a plan that you will get your home back.

49:10Jacqueline Novak:Okay. Right. By the way, if my home were just restored, I wouldn't care. So there, there's an issue. So that's why we need that in motion. I need the soap cleaning in motion.

49:19Kate Berlant:And then there's the question of why do you want to spend your time on this? Because you obviously do. Because like last night, you know, you're like, I want to check out from this to do this. I get it. remember when i i mean i get wanting to do the thing that's not worth your time as i might i

49:33Jacqueline Novak:might check out i might actually just stop i might just end it i think i think it's like i then got excited because i threatened all this stuff of like i'm gonna eviscerate you online and stuff and like what and i just don't do that it's like let's talk about that too okay because this is a pretty interesting topic right okay i can't even find the visit evisceration eviscerate to me i was like i'm gonna write a negative review online with photographs look what this i mean

49:58Kate Berlant:That is what our society is set up, right? Is Yelp and photographs and bad reviews. Unfortunately, I can't find them. I don't think you should use the power of your podcast. Uh-huh. Okay. Like, there's something there that's actually, like, wrong. Okay. Yeah. It's like, well, what about the regular person without a podcast? What do they get to do when their house is covered with sweat? They get to write a Yelp review and put up photos. So I guess what I'm saying is. I want the Yelp.

50:25Jacqueline Novak:If I could find them easily on Yelp or Google, I would. literally there's 16 ,000 Mr. Chimneys and there's 60 ,000 pro stars.

50:31Kate Berlant:You're president of the United States, okay? And there's nowhere to put your, there's no Yelp review. So you go, I'm going to tell America. See what I'm saying? It's an extreme example. Right, right, right. But it's like. I know it's the right thing to do is to leave it. And also, okay, like, just imagine the movie where, okay, where, you know, you eviscerate them. Okay, like cut to, you know, like it's just a movie, like where it's fucking, you know, crash or whatever. Okay, vignettes around. Yeah. Los Angeles. And it's like, you know, it's destruction that's not going to get you anything. And, you know, you have to.

51:07Kate Berlant:They've taken enough.

51:10Jacqueline Novak:And these poor listeners.

51:13Kate Berlant:No, but it's an interesting question. Like, well, here you go. Ready? Want to, like, make it fucking deep? What? I mean, you, like, I was thinking about it. I was like, you know, you're just, you're coming at me. You want to be witnessed. in your pain right and it's like it's not you're not gonna be satisfied until you've been fully witnessed for how wrong you've been wronged you've been right yeah and i get that like i completely get that right i have like a fantasy of like yeah let's hear it people at mr chimney and pro star being like oh shit we fucked we fucked with the wrong bitch the wrong bitch

51:48Jacqueline Novak:okay tell me more let's get okay so so yeah so my my hope is yeah mr chimney at corporate their little meeting on Mondays, they go, the Kate Berlant file, just give her the 450 back because our phones are ringing off the hook and people are calling in saying justice for Kate Berlant, or they're calling in, they're saying, hi, just so you know, I was going to book your services, but then I heard about how mistreated somebody was by your company and I will not be going to you with my chimney business. Okay. And they go, oh my God.

52:21Kate Berlant:I mean, you, you want, um, what is it you want you want well by the way literally them to say sorry not even suffering

52:28Jacqueline Novak:i don't want them to go to business i don't want them to like no i just want them to say sorry i want them to do the right thing which is to refund me right and just say sorry i guess yeah i don't know what like if they just said oh my god we're so sorry like i'd be like all right right like i would never in a million years like somebody else this happens they're refunded they're still going on google this happened right and yes i was refunded but there's soot everywhere if they refunded me said sorry i'm not doing that shit i don't care shit happens whatever say you're sorry call me back no of course something i am something about soot i'm already so my therapist is going to be all over soot from a young in point of view oh yeah

53:19Kate Berlant:why soot's bothering you more than yeah soot like i don't know for some reason this one's not feeling that this is that's that's not i'm not locating it in the archetypal so let me wrap up a few threads okay yeah in closing the soot files the soot file i'm closing the soot file i'm gonna go home if people think they're gonna they're gonna get in good with kate by trying to take action and find this company? No, it's disgusting. And if any of you do it, I will revoke your membership. No. No, why? Kate, it's a waste of their fucking time. It's a waste of your fucking time. It's not good. Okay. I don't even know why it's not good.

53:59Kate Berlant:I'll spend the next week thinking about it. This will be my soot. So I can't even call? I know it's not good. I can't even call again? Are you joking? Of course you can call. Oh. You do see a difference between thousands and thousands of listeners being encouraged. Can I call on air? Can I call on air and just say I'm so upset? Why don't we do it now? What? Let's try to handle it again together. Okay, let me...

54:20Jacqueline Novak:Because I want to see... Wait. Where's Mr. Chimney? Okay, wait. Why don't you let me talk? Okay.

54:27Kate Berlant:I'm sorry. The number you have reached... They blocked me. Okay, wait.

54:31Jacqueline Novak:Oh, bitch, you... Wait. They blocked me. That's amazing. See, now I'm getting... They blocked me. Okay. My heart's pounding. All right. Give me the number. Oh, here.

54:52Kate Berlant:I'm so excited. Don't pipe in like. I'm not going to pipe in. I'm not going to pipe in.

55:03Jacqueline Novak:Interesting. A call going through.

55:12Jacqueline Novak:I still make it nervous Do you think they think it's me?

55:16Kate Berlant:No, because in theory if they blocked you, they're not getting the call, right? Should we get my dad's advice? What? I know. Call him next? He will have advice I got this before with these people You're giving a message?

55:32Jacqueline Novak:Should I? They're not going to call, no Just call back again Call back immediately again

55:38Kate Berlant:Like some, you know sometimes you have to just say i got fucked this time sometimes it's me sometimes it's someone else fucking happens getting fucked happens right i mean you've been hi how are you hi um i'm calling about the uh property. I just want to make everything right here. So are you, are you up to date on everything that's going on? I will have to pull up the information here now. Okay, sure. Um, it is, I'll say it. It's street. How about the number? Is this number associated with, uh, The number I'm calling from? No. The appointment? Okay. I can give you that number if you need. Please give me a moment now.

56:42Kate Berlant:Sure. Give me a moment. Yeah. The name is, should be Caperland.

56:51Jacqueline Novak:Immediately on hold. I haven't even heard, I haven't even heard their, their, their.

56:55Kate Berlant:So I'm going to try a different approach than I normally would. Okay, great. What do you, I don't even know your approach is, this is exciting. I don't either. I'm going to, it's going to be intuitive. I think I might even just say like

57:12Jacqueline Novak:you could just say my friend's really upset I'm just I mean friend is so my employee

57:22Jacqueline Novak:this is amazing I haven't heard this I called them nine times I called them nine times it's a sacred

57:29Kate Berlant:it's a sacred sacred number nine

57:38Kate Berlant:your time is better spent is such an interesting thing because like we just had this yesterday about something where i wanted to fly into something that yeah yeah yeah it's like why is it that i don't want to do the things i'm gonna release it i can feel it well this is a carolyn mace thing m y s s okay is you need to witness and then get patted on the shoulder and then you move on hello

58:03Jacqueline Novak:they thought they were i mean they blocked me huh interesting yeah what do you think about that you could just say we're releasing this and your company is not going to do well what's your treating people what did you zell what vema what'd you do zell

58:23Kate Berlant:So do they, so they in theory have your, they could tell you back.

58:27Jacqueline Novak:Oh, you know what would be the real phone call to make? Yeah. The manager. The man. The man. Who is this? This is Mr. Chimney. It's all so confusing. Right. I think, I think we do one more call. You have to call him because he's the one that really did the damage. I mean, these people are, they, they, you know, it's all, they're all interconnected.

58:52Kate Berlant:But they're technically at the top. Yeah, this is the top. So technically the buck stops with them. Yeah. And they said no? The best we can do is? Yeah, they both did. Thank you so much for patiently waiting. No problem.

59:07You there?

59:08Kate Berlant:Hi, yeah. So I see here the latest update that you see.

59:19Kate Berlant:There's a refund request for the service. Yep.

59:27Kate Berlant:So, has the refund gone through?

59:33Kate Berlant:We don't have further information. This has already been escalated to our managing team. Oh, so who do I need to call? Who do I call for the management team? You haven't received a call from the management team yet? No, unfortunately. I have ID sent a follow-up jam and follow up on the refund request and the complaint. I've forwarded it to the management team. And the management team is Mr. Chimney?

1:00:14Jacqueline Novak:Mr. Chimney. Say two days, no call back.

1:00:19Kate Berlant:So you, I'm sorry, did you re-up? You sent them something again or you mean it's already been escalated and basically. It has already been escalated. Right. Because we don't have further access. We don't have further access on our end. The managing team is already handling this. So the best I can do is to send you a follow-up and request for me just a callback for this. We really appreciate your patience. Yeah, that would be great. And what about, is there a phone number for Mr. Chimney HQ that I could just call? Because I'm more than happy to just call. This is the number you can call now. I have to check the photos.

1:01:06Kate Berlant:Okay, like I mentioned,

1:01:10Kate Berlant:the issue is already being escalated. Oh, right. I was just wondering if you knew the business name. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good one. Take care. yeah it's just you know it's whatever i would argue the person who you have the i'm looking up i don't know too much no i'm just sort of it's been escalated and you're waiting on a callback right yeah that's the latest yeah two days of no they're never going to call me they block my number

1:01:40Jacqueline Novak:at this point we're like we're getting to like i have one more call all right for you to make because you want to make it right this is the guy who told me hey my technician says your house may have been dirty this is the guy the guy who said to me he also said to me i want you to be happy i said i can't be happy there's soot all over my house is this a text yeah i'm looking this is on the phone and he said send me the photos and i did send the photos and he looked at them and he was like and then and then he was one who said i can't do more than um the discount i've given you this is his number you can say you can say it's what happened i'm your tenant i'm your tenant it with him i don't think i've been threatened him with that yeah but he's he's the real he's kind of the real villain to me i forgot who he is he's he's pro star he's this he's he's the manager of the guy who came to my house is there anything is there anything that more can be done i really want you to call him this is the this is not it's from my phone what that's from it's my phone why is that a problem okay sure go on speaker

1:02:51Kate Berlant:Oh, I see what you're saying. I'm going to leave. Oh, you wrote. I'm going to leave a scathing review unless I have the remainder refunded. I paid$4.50 to have my house ruined. Yeah. Yeah. This is a nightmare. You're right. It's on every surface. There's. Okay. You've given him an erotic photo of the bottom of your foot. Just like full foot. Full 100 % foot. Okay. Okay, he's already sold that online. I think if you call him and you go real sweet, is there anything we can do? Well, I will never say those words. That is like, you tell me what I'm worth. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, hey, is there anything you can do?

1:03:32Kate Berlant:Just call him. That's like the opposite of what I am. I'm going to go with full transparency. Okay, you say I'm her friend, whatever? I got to just feel it.

1:03:39Jacqueline Novak:Go speaker. I hold it close.

1:03:42Kate Berlant:I'm sorry. You can't leave a message because the person you called has a voicemail box that hasn't been set up yet. Goodbye. Yeah, he blocked me too. Fine, I'll try it.

1:03:53Jacqueline Novak:Great. They're running the business on like burners. By the way, something is weird here. Like something is weird. You're not going to call it? I thought you were going to call it. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, this is good. My palms are sweaty. Now I want peace. Now I want peace.

1:04:10Kate Berlant:I've changed. This is the thing. I'm like, I want to explore. I'd like the money back, but I want peace. Okay. Hold on. This is about... I'm sorry. You can't leave a message because the person you called has a voicemail box... That's what happened when I tried to call for you. So here's where it's at. Okay? Yeah. It's over. Okay? Something outside of your control happened. You've lost$4.50 on worse. And another$400 to clean it. Yeah, like something happened to you that you're going to have to pay for. It happens, right? Yeah. It's also a part of life. So it happens. Okay, getting fucked by businesses is a part of life, right?

1:04:59Kate Berlant:Getting back, like it's literally a part of life, right? You know what I really saw in this?

1:05:03Jacqueline Novak:You hear these stories of people who are in legal battles for like 4 ,000 years with companies and they go, it's not about the money anymore. I know. It's about the principle. Right.

1:05:10Kate Berlant:and that you gotta let it go well because also take that if it's about justice okay or it's about whatever certainly take that and bring it elsewhere releasing i feel it okay i'm getting it out okay because like i could get into an argument you know on the street with someone like yeah it's like where are you putting what you feel lost no no i feel i feel because you know what

1:05:35Jacqueline Novak:you know what i just felt i felt compassion for the for the world and for humanity and how people you know and i was thinking about someone driving in their car right and we all had this experience someone flips you off or something and you and it wasn't really deserved or something and you're like that person is going through it right right or like i was on the freeway the other day and this person was driving like a fucking maniac and came up behind me so fast dangerous flashing brights flashing brights trying to intimidate me or you know what i mean i was like it's really scary that person is going through something right they had their chimney they were just they're betrayed by their chimney yeah the molestation is passed down you know what i mean so it's like and i and i went i was trying to say you know what i thought about because because on the way here yeah i flip someone off

1:06:22Jacqueline Novak:but that's how i feel bad because then i carry the anger you know i mean it's like i don't want to flip people off i won't be angry the chimney the chimney man wins again if i'm angry well sure

1:06:35Kate Berlant:but but also where i thought you were headed okay i'm disappointed you're not now i'm gonna sell him

1:06:40Jacqueline Novak:a thousand dollars well that's always fun that'd be fine should i sell him a dollar and say

1:06:48Kate Berlant:i'm gonna give you a dollar every day no because no i don't want to get yeah i want but but here's what i'm trying to say okay here's what i'm trying to say the the point you were didn't realize you were making that that is that you should be making, right? Okay. Is like, like what I'm, when I'm just saying it's not good, okay, it's not good. Okay. It's like wanton, it's wanton destruction. Okay. So let's just say the chimney sweep guy, like, I mean, I was going to bring up lame is, like, I'm just like, but it's like, like, I don't know. Have you ever done a bad job? Like, and run? With anything?

1:07:30Kate Berlant:He actually left his cleaning wipes behind. he ran so fast okay so what i'm just saying is the it's not about the money anymore if you know you wanting to destroy the business all that right i don't even want to destroy them like

1:07:45Jacqueline Novak:if i could push a button have them have to shutter tomorrow i wouldn't you know what i mean right like and yet you but and yet but i want them to rue the day yeah and you and you've invited

1:07:56Kate Berlant:our listeners okay to show their love of cape berlant we've given them no we've given our listeners no other way how about empower our listeners to send me healing energy no go to the ten dollar uh uh tier okay see what I'm saying right you're giving them a way to love you that does nothing for me okay no but I'm just saying it's wanton destruction okay of like you're right because the un like you're saying like unconsciously because I think I basically you know well here's where really go, you know where I'm at? I kind of think I, okay, just trying to decide how I feel about this. I think it's true.

1:08:35Kate Berlant:I'm kind of against bad reviews. Okay. Okay. I go, I go. Well, that makes sense. Like, you know, like of businesses, right? Like I'm kind of like, like, no, it depends, but I do kind of think, you know, let them have a chance to right the ship kind of right it's like anyway point is whatever it doesn't matter the point is wants and destruction okay an owner of business might be a piece of shit okay a piece of shit okay who doesn't deserve whatever but like i got a child kate i know so like i don't want their business

1:09:09Jacqueline Novak:to shutter right i i really don't and there's the thing about me bringing chaos to their business bringing phone calls to their business this is none of this is good like i had a fantasy

1:09:18Kate Berlant:their phone's ringing they look down i had a fantasy a car hits them as a result i'm just saying oh you won't know i don't want that yeah right so you're i have wanting yeah yeah okay i

1:09:25Jacqueline Novak:hear that it's careless because i had a fantasy where i was like i'm gonna do the thing where bots you get like a million bots to call a number you know i'm gonna flood the line so no new business can get in you know it's like i'm not actually gonna do that i don't even know how to do that but i just mean like it's interesting it's interesting channel for me because i don't i truly i don't wish ill on people i don't wish people would they get what they like i'm not like that yeah this chimney situation it's like mr chimney it's like it's like no i said mr chimney yesterday as the wrong word to something i was like oh yeah i was like

1:10:02Kate Berlant:it like just came out instead of saying the word like tree i mean what's really going on here right is um what is the oh i know what you should do this is like a technique but like what is the okay what are the core emotions and then what is the unreal the unreal expectation so you go you go you know i'm angry that i'm mad that whatever you get that get all that shit out i think you've done it basically right what is the underlying unreal unrealistic expectation is that the word unreasonable expectation what is it so i'm mad that i got fucked yeah right yeah what where is the unrealistic expectation in there i should never get fucked probably right when so so here's so you recognize that and you mourn that as a human that's the human condition right yeah someone comes to your house they spray soot you have to clean it up shit happens like right so it's like mourn it feel it like like it's not saying like you're right get on your knees and rail to the gods why do why must people get fucked right yeah like oh my god why must

1:11:12Jacqueline Novak:people get why do you get fucked over imagine if it were something serious this is not a serious matter like that that's what's scary i thought about that today i was like oh my god this is this is not even serious imagine somebody oh my god no right right right the core human thing is

1:11:27Kate Berlant:that like we what are the core what are the core things here we don't control everything we can't control everything yeah sometimes shit happens it's the result of someone being an asshole yeah

1:11:37Jacqueline Novak:and you have to pay other people or whatever yeah like nine calls no response yeah and so i think um okay here's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna release it i'm really gonna release it like arguably like just if they had a great business going and great lives and and a great they would just refund it

1:11:55Kate Berlant:They were just refunding it. That's a good point. So it's kind of like, oh, I got in bed with someone desperate, someone on their last job. Here's the funniest thing. Someone who doesn't have all the equipment. Here's the funniest thing to me.

1:12:08Jacqueline Novak:This is interesting. It's my fault, and here's why. The recommendation was the chimney guy. What do you mean? Which is a different company than Mr. Chimney.

1:12:21Kate Berlant:Oh, and you kept saying the chimney guy to me. How am I supposed to know that's a... No, no, no. There's a company called The Chimney Guy? Yeah. Yeah, Kate, you were like texting me lowercase, just like, well, The Chimney Guy, I should have, I should have, I'm like, which Chimney Guy? Okay. You see what I'm saying?

1:12:35Jacqueline Novak:I got confused. Someone goes, The Chimney Guy. I go, Chimney Guy. Mr. Chimney. So I call Mr. Chimney. I'm supposed to call The Chimney Guy. So here's the thing. So you called a not, you called a not. I got the wrong business. I got the wrong business. So listen, I'm going to, I'm going to put this to rest because I want to live like this anymore. And it's not who I am. it's not who I am point is you've changed I've changed I've changed this is really helpful and you know what I'm gonna do I'm releasing it so it happens we have a new shirt now I feel better thank you I love you I love you