Rodney Mullen

28:44That's what I should do. So I had gone out and won Oceanside the year before as an amateur. Yeah. And I remember looking at Rocco. Rocco was so far ahead of everybody, Truly. And Rocco's personality, not a lot of humility, but he backs it up. We'll talk about it right now. He's a character's character. Yeah. But he backs it up. And that's the point. But it was amateurs. I got to see, I was exposed for the first time. I was like, wow, those are legit guys, right? I'm like, you know, I could do that. And the pros I'd see in the magazines, not as good as you might think. Except for Rocco. He was 10 times better.

29:20And I went away having had that experience. And I practiced every day. I turned everything up because I saw what I considered greatness to be. So things were bad around the house in the months prior. So that's the end of the summer, right? And I got word, this is it for you? No more skating. Your dad said no more skating. Period. At the end of the summer, first day of school, done. And when I got word, it was done. From your dad, like no more skating. And again, the way things were, it was just like, you know. And was that just because my understanding of you from this is that basically it was as if you lived in a black and white world and skating was color.

30:01So this was like your form of self-expression being taken away. Beautifully expressed, better than I could have. But at that stage, it just happened. And all I know is, well, give it everything you have. Yeah. And so I skated that much more. And he skated a lot, I mean, before, right? Yeah. I mean, you really, you're super dedicated. Yeah, it was minimum five hours a day. I would clock everything. And there was a guy that we all know and love who's not quite from this earth in this beautiful way. His name is Barry Zeritsky. Yes. Oh. Who is that? He seems to be like a saintly person, but you...

30:41Perfect word. Yeah. I couldn't have picked a better word, saintly. Mm-hmm. Truly shirt off his back. In fact, let me describe saintly. Barry objectively was just a hippie. OG health food back in the day, right? Alfalfa sprouts and Ack Mac crackers. He would feed us and peanut butter. And if you had a candy bar, he would come and buy it back from you before you ate it. Barry, big mustache, always so proud of it. And he was so beautiful, man. His character, there's no one like him. And for whatever reason, he just saw something in me. And he started like, again, Mr. Miyagi style, train me. There's no trainers.

31:23But he would like start timing my runs. Freestyle were all two minutes ahead of a beginning, middle, everything in threes. And here's the hippie stuff. Everything had to be done in threes, cosmic number. And he would have me, you don't need your eyes. He would have me go like running backwards everywhere. Oh, wow. Yeah, so you can't see where you're going. Like literally running on tracks backwards. And if you go down and tie your shoes, do you need your eyes to tie your shoes? Actually, I don't. Well, don't use them. Keep your head up. It weighs 12 pounds. Knocks off your center. That was his type of right.

31:50I'm like, whoa, who is this guy? That's Barry. That's where it all started. So Barry saw me and he knew. And everyone heard about the Oasis Contest, World Championship Professionals. I remember we went over to his crappy apartment because you're not making any money. And he's like, Rodney, it's always wrong to lie to your parents. Always. But I think that you're the best in the world. I think there's a part of you that knows that. And I think if you prove that to yourself, you can go out in peace. Because if you don't have that, you won't have peace. Yeah. And I will sell all my furniture. This is saint.

32:28I will sell and just tell your parents, we're going to go for usual demo and you'll be back on a Monday. What do you say? What an amazing human. Truly. He is a saint. Yeah. and so I remember I don't even know what I said at that time because you're so humbled but you're also a kid and you're afraid I don't even know if I answered it if anything it was to think about it yeah and then weeks later for whatever reason I felt like doing more chores than usual my dad came home I'd finished the painting a lot of fences endless fences in the country and came home he had his usual coffee and Stacy Pratt called my house and that voice because I'd heard it in some movie I watched very distinctly Stacy?

33:11Who is she? It's a he. Oh, it's a he. Who is he? He's a he. And he's a guy that was a very famous skater. And he put together the most elite team at the time called the Bones Brigade. And everyone at that time aspired to be that guy. Yeah. And he called my house. He's like, hey, there's no money. But if you can afford to get over here, you can stay at my place. I'll take care of you because I heard nothing but good about you. And you really looked up to Stacy. He was on my wall. Yeah. And is this a chance to then for you maybe get in the Bones Brigade? Oh, yeah. But at that stage, I already knew Dead Man Walking.

33:48Oh, right. You can't skate anymore. Wow. Right. Oh, God. So complicated. Yeah. And this goes back to me staring down. I remember like hearing my mom pleading, which was, you know, the way she was. She was pleading. I remember in that Southern, just one last, one last fling. And then I got the word to come downstairs that I could go. And my father paid. Wow. And I went out there, knowing full well that was it. Full understanding that it's over, go out. I remember going out the day of Oasis. I did my first run, and I fell. One, stepped off. No way you can win with that. But one out of two runs. And Rocco was placed first, and I was second by not by much.

34:33Stacy came over to me because he was very famously the dude that would do your run, and he would get people and like clean their wheels, all that stuff before a run, calm them down. I remember doing my thing again. I've always had a quiet face. Just take a quick knee and I'm just quiet. And I remember Stacy coming up to me. He's like, hey, you seem to be doing your own thing and I don't want to interrupt you. So let me know if there's something I can do. Otherwise I'm just here. I remember thanking him for both, for recognizing that because it would have been nothing but distraction. Sure. But respect paid because he's Stacy.

35:07Yeah. But he had the clarity and the respect to recognize that. He's always had an amazing intuition. He saw you. Yeah. And I remember like, I felt everyone feels nerves. But I remember at that stage, weirdly, I was calm. God, do my psycho killer, talking to heads. Yeah, yeah. Perfectly me. Barry's like, you can do this. And he had this whole thing of doing my run. And the very last trick, 540 shove-its at that time, which your board spins like a lawnmower blade onto you. you get a lot of you know ankle taps and they're always swollen and he's like rod that's your biggest trick make sure you're looking at the judges when you do it you can't look at your board and i was like all right you're crazy but all right for you and i remember practicing all of that every day even when word had given i was dead man walking type of thing right yeah i still did it because this dude believes me and i was doing my run and 540 shove came and i remember like I already got my run.

36:07This is one of the tricks. I got my run. I was three quarters of the way through it. And I remember staring at the judges as this... And I remember blindly landing back on my board, the feeling. No one saw but me. I knew. But I was faithful to Barry. And I remember they announced that I won. And people were making a ruckus. Rocco wasn't stoked.

36:35and i remember stacy man going back like i rocco said i didn't win and i was like well he's the only guy that actually knows if that makes sense by the way rocco's his biggest fan but back then they were you know right neck and neck yeah and i remember going back and stacy he took me all the way to lax and he gave me a bones brigade patch and i remember i was like does this mean i'm on the team and he just started laughing that was his response to a lot of things right you just and you would not get any hard information right you were wanting hard information of course that's right and i didn't have the heart to tell him that i couldn't be on right because at least i kind of die knowing out of the blue weeks later i had given up i had a shrine of my airport ticket all little things i stole one of stacy's i think it was a spoon you know i made a little like kind of a shrine i kept to myself because i couldn't skate oh god that's so sad and then uh got a call for an interview.

37:28My dad, I remember listening. He's like, well, since these people are investing money in there, they believe, I guess you can keep going. So I just kept going with reprieves. Right, that's tough. Was he subconsciously doing that or consciously doing that? I know another time when I had this, this is when I lost. Thank you for remembering. He told me right before I left to compete. This is years I'd held the so-called title because by then you're just pretending. I'm not pretending, but you're just turtled up trying to protect a title. You're not winning. It's a hollow. And so I'd held on to the title a while, years.

38:05In my father's eyes, that was like, yeah, you're competing against bums. That's why you're winning. And so it's time because I see you and you're just getting weirder. And because probably then I was pushing more of the night stuff even more and just becoming more kind of hollowed out. And right before I left, it was a spring contest. I think Del Mar. Yeah, I del Mar. And right then it, it breaks something in your will. Like we move by our will. The rest comes after leveraging the skill sets, but it's our will. I've never thought about that. That's really beautiful. I have a make a wish. But it is very simple to say that to answer your question, he took that away and I went and I lost.

38:49And you felt your will being broken. I was broken when I got out there. And again, to his credit, because consider my father, he was the most elite at what he did at that time. And consider all like they put him through and the responsibility of that. It doesn't make you an evil person. It makes you a hero if you can drop the thing if you're told to, I suppose. Right? But when I got home and he saw me, I used to be like, you know, let's see how you recover from this. You can keep going. Yeah. And so that's part of the point. And it's part of the forging of character, which is credit to him. So have you done Make-A-Wishes?

39:27Yes. So I will say, and I'll cut into this because I'm coming in. You might not know where I'm coming, but I have a feeling you might relate to this. Make-A-Wish, they're professionals and they have the perfect touch. It's not too hard, but it's weaming business. And say, hey, this person wants to see it. And usually it's like, are you good for the next few weeks? You tell me when your schedule lightens up. You're like, okay, what are you doing this weekend? And like an idiot, I go, is there a rush? Yeah, because he might not make it to next week. What do you do? And that stage, the nerves hit because very honestly, I'm an adult that did what I did because I'm just rolling around because for the first time I have something that has the potential of expression that isn't tennis or football or anything else.

40:22It gives me the ability to create something and give it back to others. And that leaves a mark. It is my own expression. So I don't have to be compared toe to toe or inch for inch with them. I can't be measured by metrics of inches or scores. This is how I can best and most safely and most definitively distinguish myself and make a mark on my own terms to dead poet society contribute my verse but they don't understand nor will they that i'm only doing this because if i'm fighting my own stuff yeah because i'm this close to one to kill myself and this is the thing that's keeping me going yeah and so here i am i made it this far and i've got these people this beautiful people where some poor kid doesn't know any better because guess what?

41:15He's a kid and he can't quite assess me for what I actually am. He just sees what he sees in the videos and the magazines. And so I'm like, great, great. So I just said yes to this. This is me after you hang up the phone, right? Great, I've got like three days of this and my heart is jumping out of my chin because what am I? Who am I? I'm some middle-aged dude skating under a streetlight in the middle of the night because I've got my own demons to fight and I can't let them get the best of me. And somehow because they haven't got the best of me, people think I'm something. And so I'm going to get there and their parents will know because their parents will know.

41:52They'll see you drive up because you've experienced that. They're the ones waiting outside the hospital. And guess what? They're adults. And they're going, who is this guy? That is my kids, my dying kids last wish to see? He's some pigeon toed washed up pro that's done nothing but roll around on a skateboard. so at that stage i'm gonna walk in the kid will recognize that i'm nothing but what i am and that last little bit of hope that he was having his ideal was actually better than that it will break his will and i will have killed their kid awesome that's actually what i'm thinking honestly fraud yeah intense anxiety yeah i take a red eye i land i'm looking i haven't slept, but I'm good at not sleeping.

42:40And it was exactly, it was the father. And I meet the father, I see his eyes before he's the cab. And first thing in the morning, I'm the guy. I see him, he sees me. And already I have a sense of apology. And I go out, shake his hand. But you know what? In his eyes, he's not thinking any of that stuff. He's like, I don't give a rat's ass who you think you are or whatever. All I know is my kid loves you. Yeah. So I see it lit up in his eyes. And I'm like, all right. And you go through, ever been through a children's hospital by the time you get up there, this hall, this hall. So I go in and it's the door and they open the door and this kid's plugged into the wall.

43:22It's bad. And from my memory, and again, I've done a number and I don't think I'm conflating anything. One thing's for sure, I remember this, that he got up so fast running around the left side of the bed that they couldn't unplug him fast enough. And the nurse got and she got like, whoa, whoa, let me get you. Right. He comes running through, jumps in my arms. Oh my God. Jumps in my arms. His mom and his mom, he had like kind of peach fuzz hair. Maybe he'd gone through a bunch of chemo. I just remember he had like light colored peach fuzz. His mom looked like albino looking blonde to me, but very blonde to say.

43:55And I remember his parents were just there, eager and excited. And the kid was lit up. And that lights up your own soul where your anxiety is just like a contest. When you get in, where do you go? You're there. You're finally there. You're there. And it feels good. And I'm like, dude, what's going on, man? A pleasure to meet you. He's like, oh my God, what were you? What about this? They're completely cognizant. They are wise, these kids. This kid was lit up and he went to his parents and it was just awkward like, oh, third wheel. And he looked at them and he was like, you can go now. Oh, and I was sorry in my heart.

44:32But at the same time, I'm so lit up for the kid. You're engaged with this kid. Because God, right? I grew up with classical music and he's described, although I looked at him, Bruckner, Bruckner's fourth, the romantic. They say in one of the, and I read this so ages ago, that he was ugly to the point of deformity. And when he wrote his, I think it was the third movement, the scherzo of, is it the Romantic? I forgot, or is it the Fifth Symphony? When God comes down and judges every man according to his gifts, I will lift up my arms with this.

45:05Bruckner's not known to be the best. Yeah, we all know Bach, Beethoven, Mendelssohn. But I was thinking, you know, God, for whatever you've given me, I've fucked it up. I'm just doing what I'm doing. but if I can do something now, be with me now, which just means be yourself. Don't be anything different. And you know what you talk about? It's nothing profound because there is such profundity in the commonalities that tie us together. What's your favorite pizza? What was your favorite movie? Did you like Jackass? Did you like, right? And you realize like, oh my God, I actually am this kid. Like, yeah, there's a reason.

45:42An hour goes by like that. Trust me, I love this kid. and then the make-a-wish person comes in and they know what they're doing because long goodbyes are bad. They come in when it's time to go, as did the parents. And they're like, oh, hey, I know you've had a great time. It's time to go. The kid, crystal clear, is like, hey, basically like right on. Give the kid a hug. And then the father, the mom's just lit up. And the father's like, let me walk you to your car. I'm like, no, because at that stage, I don't know if I can hold it in. You see? So the father, I'm like, what do you do? Of course, sir.

46:23So the father shuts the door. He's like, you know, when your kid has cancer, no one wants to say, no one wants to believe. He's telling me the story on the way down. And he goes, you know, if anything, you realize that, hey, at the end of the day, you watch your CNN, you watch your Fox, whatever you believe. You do your work, you come home and just leave me alone. I want to watch my thing. And then start over the next day. And you realize when you're faced with something like this, that you're part of a small community that has to deal with something different and that we need each other. The thing I can take from this is we need each other.

46:52So we say goodbye. My cab driver gets to see the emotion come out. Don't say anything. Sorry about that. He gets it. It's amazing the dignity that comes out of strangers at that time. So I leave. Years go by. I might have done a couple more since. Similar stories. Very similar stories. And I'm in Texas. Remember those dudes at Backfoot Metal Militia, all that? Skating, Texas, hot as hell. Red Bulls out there. Like, these kids are so freaking thirsty. The line's like three hours. You've been in these autograph sessions. It's a conveyor belt. You meet eyes after eyes. But there's a weird thing, and you know this.

47:30There's an energy exchange. There's something that leaves you freaking tired. Like, tired. Like, numb tired. Because you meet people, and they don't know what to say to you. And you're like, I hear you, man. And then you do the simple things. You're connected by the strands of everyday life of what do you like, you know? It's even tougher when you're an internal person. Yeah. When you're naturally introverted, it's taxing for a normal person. But when you're introverted, not that introversion is abnormal. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's so much more taxing. Oh my God, you hit the wall after darkness descends.

48:01That's right. So at the end of the long session, hot as hell, these kids are hyped up after reading, drinking like five Red Bulls in the heat. They squeak you back to a little tent. And it's like, hey, some people want to meet you. Whatever. And they're like, hey, do you remember doing a Make-A-Wish? Do you remember this person? I'm terrible with names. I'm like, I definitely, it rings a bell. But if it's Make-A-Wish, he's like, yeah, he's healthy. He's strong. And he's getting off work. He couldn't make this. Can you hang out for another 15, 20? So this is my memory of it. But the punchlines are still the same.

48:38That I'm like, hell yeah, man. Let's go. And we're just hanging around talking about nothing. And what I see, and again, this is my memory, whether the recognition was from the hair, that blonde hair, or it was just something in his eyes. But he's grown. I see him walking from a distance. This kid, that's the kid. Wow. That's the kid. And I meet his eyes, comes up to me, gives a hug. Not only was he strapping strong, grown up, But his will and his life force was so strong that he was healing his parents, getting them back together again. That that's the strength that he'd arrived from what he went through.

49:19And I remember thinking, you know, I used to think make-a-wishes were, and this is the thing about the will. What does a broken will look like? I used to think make-a-wish meant send them off with a smile, honestly. But I think that there's undergirding embers of life that we don't have access to. that somehow that this, whatever it was, some fulfillment of belief, whatever it was, that I can be a lightning rod for whatever can help reignite that flame. If that's what make-a-wishes are, to touch the will of the person. Because we hear so often in reverse, right? Married couple, 50 years, one dies, the other follows suit.

49:59Sometimes you hear that with the animals. Really? Yeah, my dad didn't last a year without my mom. There you go. that death, what keeps us alive is a function of the will. The rest is everything else. I will say that one of the things, and so my father, again, strongly good man. He means the best for me. It's just true. But, you know, different styles. And I remember when he sold the company, done well. I remember going back to see him. Been a little hiatus. And he goes, you know, there's a lot of ways to make money. You're supposed to serve other people. What you do is sell overpriced pieces of wood to unsuspecting little kids.

50:35you're a leech on society. I understand what he means. I do. I do. Go ahead. But it is to say, I did carry that. I've definitely, this is something that you're just built that way. This is no drama, no violence, no nothing. If I can't sleep, what puts me to sleep is the feeling of being buried alive. How cold the soil would be and how good it would feel. this is kind of my essence and again there's no drama there it's just to say this is true this is true this is what i imagined to get myself when i'm spun up back to sleep i struggle with meaning i remember going i was in denmark this guy that wanted to have dinner with me and you know what it's like being on tour you're paired with all kinds of random people he rattled off all these questions and i answered accordingly and it was fine and it was a good dinner i'm like sir may i ask about you what do you do he's like oh i'm a psychiatrist i'm like oh that's amazing what's that like you know yeah it's like before that i was a doctor you ever heard this quip a german guy told me this he was a nurse he was funny he was very german in a sense funny german guy exactly imagine that that's right in that style of sense of humor and he goes hey you're not a good nurse until you kill someone you ever heard that i know haven't heard that german and witticism.

52:02But it kind of fits, huh? There's a reason why the death metal scene is so good. So this dude is like, for every surgeon, right? Your wish is to snatch, to snatch someone from the other side, right out of the jaws of death. That's all of our wish, yeah? And I finally got mine. Skiing accident, helicoptered him in, and I did. I snatched him out of the jaws of death. And after appointment, after appointment, after appointment, after appointment, over whatever it was, the last one arrives. I say goodbye. And I realize I didn't even know the man. You're a leech on society, what you should be as a doctor, yeah?

52:48And he goes, what am I? And he put his hands up, but a glorified seamstress. Huh. And so that's when I quit and I became a psychiatrist. And you know, the mind is a complicated thing. Not a whole lot of progress. I'm quoting him. I'm not saying I know myself. Since Freud, we have all kinds of medications that nuke the frontal lobe. They cover all kinds of symptoms, but don't get to the root. The one garden variety is I got wives in particular coming in all the time of alcoholic spousal abuse. I tell them everything they need to know. You can't stop that train unless. and I watched them, it destroyed the families, the garden variety case of alcoholism in the family.

53:34And they won't even listen to me, so what am I? And I walked away with a sense of, you can drip, drip, drip away, dissolve the aspirations that power your will to do whatever you do, you can dissolve it from whatever form it takes, whether doctor, whether skateboarder, whether entertainer. Don't listen to it. that would be the devil's sense of humor. That God gives us however we view God. We have some spirit within us. We have some will. Let it take its form because you don't know if that's the chosen route for you. So would you just shut up and listen and try to stop degrading the gifts that I've given you?

54:12And so for however ridiculous it is that I find my expression through skateboarding, it has taken meaning to me. It has given me more. I am the richest man I know because of the community because of what it's given me so follow your gifts what is the nature of the will it is perfect in its intangibility and we voice some form or shape on it that will only be to our own degradation as we find a way to kill it if that makes sense that again would be the devil's sense of humor right so i'll leave you with that can you appreciate what you've done ah honestly i because when you talk when you're talking you're like i'm just a guy who rolls around on a board and it seems like your father talking.

54:56Yeah. And it's because what you've achieved is truly amazing. Thank you. Believe me, my spirit can barely take it when you give me that compliment. So thank you, but please stop. Do you know what you mean to people? So at least I'll give this as a comedic example of that. It's got to be funnier than that German guy. Yeah, right. Until you kill someone. So I'm rolling around here in Brooklyn and you go to different places and some places a little sketchy, that is for sure. As I'm skating, these dudes come up and they start hitting that thing. Like, good, they're good skaters. No slide and ollie flips and they got control of them too.

55:41And it's that skating thing that you love about the community. You know, it's just that nod, that respect, that fight club thing, you know? and they come over to me and they light up and these are like you know they're legit their 20s like they're in their powers you know and the respect like the love of just shaking my hand and i'm like dude you got that you know type of thing like and they're like humbled and like i can see that they're almost to the point of calling me sir and i'm like come on man you know like you guys as i'm walking away and this is the beautiful thing about the culture i'm walking away and i hear thank you for what you've given in my heart i'm like like how many people get that belonging that's the gift that never stops giving you know so to answer your question i think i do good thank you that's what spike was saying he goes i used to go and skate with rodney he'd be skating it's like next to a rouse parking lot and we would talk about everything and he turned me on to uh crime and punishment oh no way and that's great and then i would read it and then we would discuss it and he was just if if you knew and appreciated what an inspiration you are to people and what a teacher you are to people.

57:13Thank you. Thank you. God. Thank you. It means the world to me. You came in. Bless you, Rodney. You're one of my heroes. And I, yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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58:34Pretty Sure I Can Fly is a production of SmartList Media. and Amplify Pictures. It's hosted by me, Alma Baker, and Johnny Knoxville. Our senior producer and showrunner is Rajiv Gola. The associate producer is Morgan Jaffe, sound mixing by Blake Rook and Garrett Tito. Sound design and theme music by Mark McAdam. Our executive producers are Josh Dean and Mark McAdam. For Smartless Media, the executive producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Richard Corson. Bernie Kaminsky is the head of production for Smartless Media. The associate producer for Smartless is Maddie McCann. At Campside Media, the executive producers are Josh Dean, Matt Shear, Vanessa Gregoriadis, and Adam Hoff.

59:12And at Amplify Pictures, the executive producers are Joe Lewis, Rachel Agabine, and Colin Miller. Brian Donahoe is Amplify's associate producer. Thanks for listening. We hope you've enjoyed the big balls you've just heard, and next week you'll have more balls. Stupid. it.