Parker Gals | Building a Med Spa Roll-Up from Scratch (w/ Amanda Blank, Founders Beauty Group)

0:00Cass: My thing about karaoke is like I'm actually quite bad at it. Like I need to practice a little bit. You think you're going to practice and your singing quality is going to get better? Yeah. I don't think that's how that works. That is how that works. That's how everything works. I think you, okay. We'll see. Practice for two weeks and then let's see what happens. All right.

0:30Cass: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Parker Gales podcast. I'm your host Cass Siebel and I'm here with my longtime very good friend, best friend Amanda Blank and today we are doing something a little bit different and up until this point we've had a couple of people on who are in more of a traditional investing role in private equity and as Amanda has been reminding me for a couple of weeks when I've talked to her about the podcast. She is not only doing that role, but several others with her MedSpa roll-up founders beauty group. So I thought it'd be kind of fun to have her on to talk about her version of private equity and her version of everything else that comes with that, being a CEO, running and helping operate these things while doing deals.

1:21So Amanda, great to finally have you on the show. Thank you for having me.

1:25Cass: And Amanda and I met at booth in business school our first year 2018 2018 which is like yesterday no it's not no it's not eight years ago five children later it is funny because now like people at booth will reach out to me to be like oh I'd like to network or I'm just starting or whatever and I'm like yeah we're like two years apart and then I'm like wait a minute yeah I know it's sad it is sad or it's great I don't know so you and I met because there was a private equity competition very early into school Oxford one the yeah the ox shy challenge um but we met because it was like all of a sudden we decided to do this thing together we were a team of like five or six and then we were just like every day every day working the model putting together a presentation on top of like learning the ropes of business school and taking classes and doing other things like we just hung out pretty much every night yeah it was good it was fun though and it was fun you really honestly what a great presentation too and then towards the end of business school which kind of I feel like changed your background from like before business school you did a lot of finance yep during business school I roped you in you roped me in again in year two to the new venture challenge which is basically like a startup competition within booth within booth which no offense to you loved working with you loved working with Blake I already don't know what it's about to come okay but it made me realize that I am not a startup girly it you know it takes a lot of like a lot of stamina yeah it's like I like wearing a lot of hats that was like too many hats for me yeah too many hats I like wearing you know give me a collection of three or four hats that was like seven yeah too many hats it's fair but yeah we did a startup which was very fun I feel like you're very good at like you're a great entrepreneur ideas person I think we were one of the only ones that got into the competition that like we were still an idea Yeah.

3:39Yeah.

3:40Cass: It was an idea on a snow day. Wrote a 11 page business plan while everyone else was like, I don't know, roasting marshmallows, binge watching Netflix or something. Right. Yeah. And then we got in. It was pretty. I feel like we beat out companies that had like series beef. That actually had like revenue. Actually had like a business. We're like, no, don't worry about it. We'll figure it out. I know. But it was it was a good time. and yeah so then after business school you took a couple other finance like jobs yeah after that and then your first kind of foray more into like the operating world was it was taking a chief of staff role right yeah it was um another guy from booth had bought via search uh a couple environmental testing companies.

4:30And so I was chief of staff slash helping with the investors and doing all the things, wearing a lot of hats. How many hats? Seven? No, probably two. Two. Probably two. And I was like, easy. Let's go throw a third kid in there.

4:47Cass: Yeah. So yeah, that's when I had Orly. Yeah. And really around the time the idea for FBG formed was when I was on mat leave with her. Yeah. I remember when you started thinking about doing something with med spas, I was like, yes, like scratch that itch. And it took a long time from that time for you to actually pursue it, pursue it. Cause you're like, well, do I become a chief of staff somewhere else? Like I could do this role for somebody who's already doing it. And then you're like, you know what? I'm just going to do it. Yeah. I think there's a piece of advice I got was to create a weighted matrix of all the metrics that are important to me with what I'm looking for.

5:34And then on the row section, do how you could fulfill this. So either going to work at a PE backed med spa, working at a PE shop that's investing in med spas, doing a search or being like an independent sponsor, you know, just the whole.

5:54Cass: Or going to work for a med spa. Going to work for a med spa, which sounded lovely too. Yeah. Even though I'm not a doctor or a nurse. Yeah. You're like, I work the front desk. I don't know. Yeah, literally. It's like, I'll just greet people. It's great. Free Botox for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Horrible business decision, but yes. My entire MBA down the drain, it's okay. But it would have been fun. Okay, so you did that analysis and you're like, you know what? I'm just going to go do this thing. Yeah, I think first lens of it was, okay, do what you love. What do you love? Medspa, check. Is this a good industry to be in?

6:28So going more top-down, thesis-driven, yes, it has all of the characteristics of a good industry, highly fragmented, recurring revenue. So some people think it's consumer asks. Some women would disagree.

6:43Cass: Yeah. And we still have CPOM. So it just, it met all the investment criteria, extremely fast growing market and niche and not, and very nascent. Not a lot of PE or institutional capital was in there yet. And I remember reading a primer on the market and they were just like wrong. wrong you were like i was like this is the reality that i'm living in versus the reality that this report is reflecting yes and it's not the same i'll give an example the report said you know women's first foray into med spas is going to be injectables botox and i'm like it's probably like a hydrafacial or laser hair removal you're not going at 18 getting botox no and i remember just thinking there's such a a disconnect between people who are investing and looking at these businesses and people who actually understand these businesses.

7:35Cass: Yeah. And, you know, you saw what happened with DSOs and they became popular and more investors looked into these MSOs with med spas. They'd already done them with Derm. Yep. Etc. And they were trying to do it. And I thought they weren't doing it good enough. Well, well enough. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we'll get a little bit more into Founders Beauty Group. But before then, we're going to get to know Amanda a little gosh. Okay. We're going to do our. You know me too well. I know it's going to be fun. And we're going to do our indication of interest section.

8:13Cass: So what is your go-to comfort show? No lies. I have to lie. It can be your comfort show. Right now. Right now. Okay. Obviously off campus is a great show. Yes. Right now. But if you asked me two months ago, I would have probably had no favorite show. No favorite show. You didn't have like a background show? Or like, hey, I'm like. I'll listen to anything. Yeah. Like honestly, anything. The thing I listen to actually a lot are the audibles or podcasts. Okay. Because you don't have to look. Right. And a lot of times it's while driving. But now, yeah, off campus is just great. But now it's over. I know.

8:53So there's no more comfort.

8:55Cass: I know. I know. We're trying to, we're on to the next. We'll find another one. Yeah. What is something that you can cook without looking at a recipe? I was going to say cereal, but I don't even eat cereal that much. The Kodiak pancakes because you add water. Yes. I have them every single day. I had never heard of the Kodiak pancakes before. I think I saw them at your bachelorette party. When I would eat like six. Yeah. Yeah. In the morning. So it's just like it's already pre-made everything that you need in there. It's just powder. Powdered, but it's got extra protein. Yeah. So you're healthy.

9:27Cass: Do you just do the regular flavor? No, I do all of them. I don't discriminate. Just mix it up because you're like, I eat these all the time. So I'm going to like. Daily. Once a day. And if I didn't do different flavors, I'd get bored. Yeah, I hope not. I hope I never get bored. I hope they come out with an entire range. I feel like they already do have a good range. They do. They could double it. I'd still not be sad. We do the birthday cake ones. Yeah, those ones are very, those are very sweet. Yeah. That's a little bit too sweet. Too sweet for you. Yeah. But you just add water. I just add water.

9:55Cass: Voila. And there you go. I don't do this every morning. Yeah. So you mix the batter and you make them without a recipe. Yep. Well, yeah. But like you're like, I could just sense how watery I can sense the consistency every single morning. Takes me five minutes. Yeah, that's I'll get two pans. Pancakes feel to me like a Saturday or a Sunday. But they're on Saturdays and Sundays, too. Right. Every day. But I guess if you're like, hey, I just got to mix in the water and like throw it on. Because what else are you eating in the mornings? I'm not. I have discovered I'm not eating enough protein in the mornings.

10:29Cass: So maybe I should get on the protein pancakes. Yeah, I like to make sure I'm getting enough protein, especially in the mornings. I'd rather make sure I'm fueled up because the day can just get completely taken from you. That's what I've discovered. I went down a little bit of a like nutrition rabbit hole to try to figure out. Do you do like function health blood testing or what? I did. You did? How old are you? um i'm 28 biologically loser loser how old are you i'm 20.4 years old you're 20.4. 0.4 okay all right i want what you're having kodiak starting with the pancakes i know every day that's so smart um okay and then what's your speaking of pancakes on saturdays and sundays What's your perfect Saturday?

11:19Cass: Starting with pancakes, probably. Okay, starting with, no, no. First of all, I'm waking up. You're waking up. At eight. Whoa. Yeah, big deal. That's luxurious. Big soup in it. And I'm definitely in the south of France. I'm not here in Chicago. Okay. So now we're traveling. Yes. That's allowed. And then I'm being served pancakes on the balcony. Yes. And probably no children are around me. That's okay. Or maybe they're in the other room with someone watching them. Yeah. They're accounted for. They're accounted for. they can pop in there i could get them if i needed to but they're not physically on top of me right which is a big deal yeah and then probably just like playing with them playing tennis that would just nice little workout and yeah doing nothing reading laying down for once laying down without my emails going off or my phone going off or we'll just throw your phone in the water yeah because otherwise it's going to go off yeah that'd be great though yeah does that sound nice Yeah, let's go.

12:18Cass: We're in. I'm in. Sign me up. So now I'm daydreaming about that, but let's get back to reality and about your career. So this is a little bit different than like what just drew you into private equity. I would like to just spend some time for our listeners to kind of go through the model of Founders Beauty Group and actually what it took to set it up and kind of like what you do. when we say that you like do private equity and you also operate businesses um so first things first you do your matrix you want this med spa roll-up vision to come true what's like step one two and three first step is finding a company to buy yeah understanding who like figuring out getting someone to sell you a business yeah when you are joe schmoe off the street right and a good business you have to find a business competitive yeah and then you get them to to agree sell you their company yeah so you're selling them your vision on what the strategy is for this company how you're going to help it why you versus whatever middle market pe shop or whatnot.

13:33And then in parallel to diligencing, you're pulling together capital. So equity and debt capital to that.

13:41Cass: Yep. So we worked with Wintrust for our senior. So you find a business, you find the money, find a business, find the money, and then go through the deal process, which the deal process in this sense, because it's the first deal is also doing the legal structuring as well. So that's the MSO model. Yes. And that's ideally the structure that then you're going to do all the rest of yes so companies up yes into it in the beginning though it was like baptism by fire we were like are we going to start a fund is this right we're going to start a fund so we made an spv because we're like we don't know what we're going to do we're going to do a fund we're going to do a platform we're going to do something yeah but it needs to be something now like it right now because we're in the middle of a deal and we need because it's closing so we need to funnel in capital somehow so we created an spv acquired the or spv that held an new co mso okay and the mso has an msa between the pllcs there was two um different practices two different practices that you bought okay yes uh so the pllcs are 100 doctor owned in the state of Washington.

14:54Cass: Yes. You bought your first ones in Seattle. Yes. So those are a hundred percent doctor owned, but the MSA then is what holds the economic arrangement and it's a master services agreement. And it sweeps the cash from the PLLCs to the MSO, which is where our doctors from those PLLCs have role and which were majority owners. That's where they're invested. You're invested um yes later and then there's other investments yeah there's yeah above that yes but that is basically how it was structured and how everything worked out so like very easy legal structuring obviously i was turned down from a few legal firms and who said this is too complicated do it in this state and i was like in this state yeah in washington washington i did washington and then California were my first states.

15:48Cass: Yeah. And they're like, you just can't do it. And I was like, I don't believe you. Yeah. I was speaking with somebody who was kind of an ex-big law person the other day. And she said to me, she was like, when you're working with private equity or you're working with operators, she's like, the answer can't just be no. It has to be like commercially minded. Like, yes, it's going to be hard, but let me figure it out. yeah i mean you have major or middle market private equity acquiring assets in highly regulated states and so i was like okay if they're doing it i'm gonna i'll figure it out them yeah i'm gonna figure out how they're doing it yeah so i did a little shopping around with legal and found a home and figured it out and even had like washington specific health care attorneys i mean we had like six different law firms at a point yeah but it all worked out okay so you get great legal counsel you find a business and somebody who's willing to sell it to you do the deal you find all the money and then you just sign on the dot and then you just sign a lot of dotted lines and then signs though so it's less glamorous yes like click click well yeah that's so true so now you're in business and now you are overseeing operations on top of now I have to go find another med spa to buy yeah and i so i think the thing that's different and how it so i'm the only one that does the m &a and i think the way it's different there's two there's two of you on in at founders beauty group no we have we have a broader team it's myself um my coo cfo uh our head of marketing and head of hr we have someone on social and we have a controller as well okay amazing a lot outsourced though well have like at this goal yes in the beginning it was you and one other who was more of COO and then over time you've built that out yes over time because yeah I mean then we came to the company we made the announcement like hello nice to meet I mean learned a lot from doing that that announcement yeah realized that people like to be given a heads up oops but it wasn't really our call though I will say like it's not our we don't know yeah it's not our I mean technically it's our business but yeah we don't know the culture we don't know how people are going to take it we we didn't want to rock the boat we kind of are we're following the guide right yeah um and it ended up being fine it was actually the best after close was the best performing months that they had had in years because everyone was so excited yeah oh I should have mentioned in that deal process I did a little secret shopping I love this for you so you do part of your due diligence is just like going to the spot you gotta go you gotta go test the quality of the services yeah multiple I've said multiple times that I am willing willing and able to come with me although I'm not like I am a little scared of like there are a lot of med spa things that involve like lasers honestly I don't even think I'm into Botox because I think I'm too scared of shots I don't know I don't know if I could actually I like joke I'll test out the hydrafacial the low the lowest margin yeah yeah yeah yes and so how how far are you into you've been doing this for how long now too long no it feels like a long time I'm sure it feels like a long time but I do only a couple years I was gonna say it honestly I feel like it's been 20 years like I I think I've aged internally?

19:23No, I haven't. You haven't. It's just the amount of things that happen in one day. Yeah. It's insane because there's all these companies.

19:34Cass: Right. How many companies do you have now? Right now we have five. You have five. They're in Seattle, California, Chicago. Chicago. Well, Chicago's closing. Yeah. Next month. Yeah. But in those two states and then we're a hub and spoke model. So we're Pacific Northwest, Southern California, Chicago, and then I'll one day I have something I'm looking at in Nashville right now but southeast is really my next area area and then I'm done and then you're done then I'm done you just got to like run these things they for a while well yeah and so I would say that's the other hat is we're constantly it's not only looking at additional acquisitions so you're wearing that like investor hat I'm speaking to LPs so I'm wearing that like external IR hat yep speaking to the lenders speaking to the Mez partners, whatever.

20:23And then working with the doctors who sold already and also working with the practice managers, thinking through like quarterly strategy and running our team like FBG. Is everyone doing what they said they're going to do? Do we need to hire at this level? This sounds like a lot of hats as well. It's a lot of hats, but I...

20:43Cass: I think I counted like six. Yeah, you would... But I feel like I'm so used to that now. I know. You would die. I would die. not like no no thank you um I think it's like endlessly fascinating and you're a couple years in you're gonna hopefully buy a couple more companies you're gonna combine them run them and then sell them sell them which is kind of bittersweet to be honest although I probably won't get to leave anyways so it's fine we'll find out but no there it's It's so much fun. I wouldn't be doing this with any other industry. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't want to go to the spa every day? I mean, you don't get to go to the spa every day.

21:26I don't. But today I do.

21:28Cass: Oh. After this. After this? Amazing. After this I do. Amazing. So when you were like, what are you doing after? I should have been like, nothing. You should have. Yeah. Missed opportunity. Missed opportunity. I didn't know that that was on the table. Okay. So let's take a step back and think about your career. as a whole, there's been different twists and turns. You've moved more into operations. As you think about like mentorship and where you're at now, kind of who, or maybe it's multiple people, who has kind of shaped you the most in your career and how? Yeah, I, you know, I would say first and foremost, Jason Tyler.

22:11He's over at Northern now. I don't even know what he's, I think he's the head of wealth management. He used to be the CFO. So he's just very fascinating. I mean, his mentor was like John Rogers. And so they kind of did this whole cascading of mentor mentees. And I just learned a lot about how to manage a group of people, how to present yourself, how to think about businesses, things that you don't learn in business class. I really learned the value of time and efficiency from him. Yeah. Um, so much so like he, and he still does, he has in his wardrobe, I forgot why I know this. I think, oh, one day I made a comment that he, I'm like, you always look the same at work.

22:57Cass: Yeah. And he's like, these are the, I own like 20 white shirts. Yeah. All the same white shirt, like 20 Brooks Brothers Navy pants and 20 suit jackets. And they're all the same Navy, white Navy. Yeah. And that's just his like uniform for work every day yeah because it takes out time thinking about what you're gonna wear I feel like that could never be you though no I would you're too I would die you're too I would literally die I would die but I love that for him it was you know an efficiency thing I should probably optimize my efficiency a bit more um but he just was always very smart like even how we would have conversations in the elevator like never wasting the moment to do that I just learned a lot from him.

23:40And honestly, I don't know if I would. He wrote like my letter for Booth. I don't even know if I would have gotten to Booth or gone anywhere really without him.

23:51Cass: I think you're not giving yourself enough credit. But that is a great person to have in your corner early in your career. If only he'll call me back. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rats. And a great person. I mean, I do think it makes such a big difference to like have somebody like that early in your career. Early on. it's hard to find and you can't manufacture it you can't just be like and you can't sign up for a program yeah and you can tell it's like a you know yeah you get a chemistry with someone of like oh they believe in me yeah right or they don't right yeah it's hard to find though I agree um what's something that you figured out recently that you wish someone had told you earlier I would say that outsourcing more is an investment in yourself so our what I mean by that is my COO yeah I mean there's a lot of things where I'll say oh I'll just do that why are we gonna hire someone to do that right I'll do it I'll do it I'll do it I'll do it on my plane ride I'll do it whatever I have this like 10 minutes yeah literally I'm like you you got to fix something with the financials, I got you.

24:59Let me just go do it real quick. Cash to accrual conversion, just let me do it in the backseat of a car. But she's like, no, your time, it's either that or XYZ, or you could be speaking to a seller, or you could be speaking to an investor. You have to value - Opportunity costs. Yes. And so really thinking about the value of each hour and what is hitting the threshold of attention has been something that, especially as we grow and grow and grow because there's just more and more problems and figuring out what may not quantitatively meet that threshold, but what's going to create goodwill and what's maybe relationship building.

25:44Cass: It's just, it's learning. Yep. No, that's huge. Especially, I think people think about like outsourcing in their personal lives more. often than they think about like the value of outsourcing especially in more of an entrepreneurial setting where it is like these are hard dollars coming out of the business to do that and like when you're thinking of it more from like that trade-off it feels just maybe even harder than some of the trade-offs of outsourcing personally yeah or you because you always think about yeah in general you're always thinking about how am I using cash am I hiring someone you know contractually to do something am i bringing someone in house when do i do that um you know am i hiring a more expensive law firm that's going to do all the legal docs high and tight am i trying to go cheap on like yeah on this piece at what point is it going to be bite me in the rear end yeah you know um even with like cpas or people that help run your audits or reviews like you do get what you pay for so you kind of have to allocate funds yeah and be just cautious of that.

26:52Cass: Yeah, totally. What are you most interested in or excited about right now in your industry? And you could take that as every industry, private equity. You could take that as MedSpa. You could take that as healthcare investing. I think two things. One is there is so much, so much institutional capital coming into MedSpa now with so many other platforms. and those are your future buyers yeah i mean we compete for a lot right now yeah well that's great yeah but i'm i mean i it's validating your thesis that's what it is it's very validating um which i definitely appreciate and then i would say the other thing that i'm most excited about would be the growth of longevity and wellness in general yeah in some of these like hrt which is hormone replacement therapy.

27:47I think that's very interesting. Like it was, I was two years ago. It was two years ago when I was on a playground with another mom and she mentioned perimenopause. Have you heard, you know, yeah, okay, you know. You know, I guess. Now you know.

28:00Cass: I know, no, but I feel like - You know because of me or no? Maybe, but I also feel like it has not been a topic. No, I Googled this. And now it's a topic. Yes. Like it's a big topic. And maybe it's like, maybe it's just - The age? Yeah. I think it's like things are just talked about more. Yeah. I was like, no one's talking about this. Yeah. I'm like, no one even. Well, there were historically like zero research dollars, essentially, like to anything like that. Right. And so I think I find it more interesting that there's more care for a patient, not just aesthetically on the surface, but internally with wellness and longevity, the function, you know, functional medicine.

28:38testing i think glp1s helped kick that off a bit because they were looking at your labs and your muscle mass etc uh and so with some of our practices we actually have built out the wellness yeah arena right um and i think that's really interesting i'm personally very interested in it

28:55Cass: totally yeah i feel like you are very into like the longevity i am like personally like i'm probably going to die from a stroke or a heart attack in the next five but I have interest in living to be 100 yes amazing I think when I first did the labs I was like well I'm not like trying to like live to be 100 and the guy looked at me like then what are you doing here oh really judgy I love and I was just like I just want to be healthy for like my kids and like for for myself and like for energy and whatever and he was like and you want to live to be over 100 and I'm like type of life you're having it depends on the quality of life you're having at 100 for sure yeah muscle mass that's right take that protein kodiak pancakes all right kodiak pancakes kodiak pancakes should sponsor this episode let's reach out can we have our people reach out um and okay so what's a commonly held belief about private equity or med spas take it either way um that you disagree with i mean i agree with a lot of um um i would say i'll say investors why don't i say that yeah investors i would say not every investor in med spa is the same right myself versus a insert PE shop name here capital blah blah yeah capital partner group named after somebody of water yeah yeah tree yes uh very different buyers yes both capital partners just very different yeah uh even in terms of scope and plans for that practice whether it's a roll-up or it's just that one and maybe doing a tuck in or two.

30:45I don't know, just very different individuals. And then I would say the other thing that I, about med spas in general is they are not, I wish they were consumer. Like I, I highly wish they were consumer discretionary because my life would be a lot easier. I'd be spending millions of dollars less on legal. Unfortunately is healthcare.

31:11Cass: Yeah. There, there are ablative lasers. There's blood work done. You're taking, especially if you're taking hormones, like it's almost like concierge medicine. Um, it's not, it's not, we're not doing a blowout and doing a facial. Like it's very different. I think that's a huge misconception. It can be probably confusing because maybe you are just doing a facial or some people are just doing that. However, the med spas that you are buying are much more healthcare oriented they do have mds they are yeah you have to have an np pa or an md one of them has a derm component one of them has a plastic surgery component like i i wish they i wish it wasn't in a way but at the same time like there's a discretionary would be difficult potentially in a recession or other things right there there's yes i when i looked at these businesses even during 2020 a lot of them were up and you're gonna say how how people figure out a way yeah you know women really and men really care about how they look yeah you really do there you go

32:23we have made it to the closing call oh that's sad i know isn't this fun yeah it's just like a conversation that other people are invited to listen to other people are here yeah um so

32:36Cass: So what's the best book that you've read so far this year? We do. We talk about books a lot. I feel like. Yeah, we do. And you listen to a lot of books, right? I do both. You do both. I do both. I read a lot of books. I think the best one that I've really liked this year was that I don't even know if it was this year or last year, the let them theory. Oh, yeah. Of letting more things go. Mel Robbins. Yeah. I think that's been helpful. helpful. I'm just a highly wound up individual. I need to relax more in my life. Yeah. Um, so I really liked that, but I have been reading because the off campus series for the first time in a series.

33:18Cass: Yes. First time in a very long time fiction books. Yeah. Oh, I love fiction. The entire series. And I just love it. You just, you just went for it. You weren't like, I'm going to buy the first one. You're like, I'm going to buy them all. No, I'm an all or nothing. I bought like 20. I was like, I'm just going to, cause you can go through them in like a day or two. Did you buy 20 to read or did you buy 20 to read there you go that's a real I feel like that is yeah that is a huge commitment but I also feel like that's like those are more like page flippy there are you can literally it's like yes great for the summer yeah and especially like a plane ride like if you're um not working yeah if the wi-fi is out on the plane oh I love when the wi-fi is out on the plane there is nothing I love more because it's out of my hands I it's like out of my hands and I hate it.

34:02Oh, I love it. Usually I'm like, and this was time reserved.

34:05Cass: I never reserve. That's my hack. I never reserve airplane time to like, I absolutely need to get this done by the time I land. Just in case, because I've been burned on that earlier in my career. Just in case the Wi-Fi is out. Just in case the Wi-Fi is out. Because like, sometimes it is. And so because it's never like necessary when it is out, I'm like, like, what show am I going to watch? What am I going to read? And like, oh, it's not my fault. Yeah, no, that's true. Couldn't work on anything. Then you have a lot more work when you land. You know, shh. Yeah. That's a future problem. That is a future problem.

34:43Cass: Yeah. I might have to borrow those because I really want to, the next book in the series, I assume, based off of the show alone, I'm very interested in Dean and Allie. You should borrow them. It's too embarrassing. I like read them. I'm too embarrassed to keep them on a bookshelf in my home. Great. I'll take them and then I will over and then I will like all over the city. I know exactly where all like the like take one, leave one, like little mini like libraries are. I'll just like put them all over. Just plant them everywhere throughout the city of Chicago. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.

35:19What's your goat? What would be?

35:21Cass: Do you do karaoke? What's your go to karaoke song? I don't do karaoke. I honestly, though, now because of off campus, it would be that cherry pie song. There you go. Because that's cool. That was cool. That was so cool. That was very cool. That's going to be my song. Can we go to karaoke? I'll do that song. Yeah. Will you do it with me? Yeah. Maybe. Okay. Yeah. Sure. I'll do it. I have to practice it. I have to practice it. They give you the words. No, I know. But like my thing about karaoke is like I'm actually quite bad at it. But like I need to be like good enough where it's not like horrible.

35:56Cass: Like I need to practice a little bit. You think you're going to practice and your singing quality is going to get better? Yeah. I don't think that's how that works. That is how that works. That's how everything works. I think you, okay. We'll see. You show me. You show me a before and after. Take yourself, practice for two weeks, and then let's see what happens. All right. We're in. We'll meet at Trader Todd's two weeks from now. Gotcha. And you'll be like, yeah, like still horrible, but I could tell you practiced because it's a little better. Yeah, it's just more insulting for you when I comment on it in two weeks.

36:29It'll be fun. Okay.

36:30Cass: We'll have a good time. If you weren't doing the med spa roll-up, what would you be doing instead? Having so much fun. You are having so much fun. I mean, I would be sleeping. I'd be doing all of the laundry instead of just leaving it. That sounds horrible. I'd be doing Pilates. I would be living my best life. Although at the end of the day, I still do have all these kids that I was. I have all these kids. I couldn't leave and travel all the time. But I think I would just be like very wellness. I'd probably just still be going to a spa. Yeah. But just as the patient consumer. You won't be able to like charge it back as due diligence.

37:13No. No, that would be a downside. But I'm assuming if I wasn't doing this, I would just have endless money capital. Yeah. Right. So it makes sense in my head. It makes sense in your head. It checks out.

37:24Cass: Yeah. I feel like there are so many things that I could see you doing I feel like you even like tinkered with all a lot of that during and after business school I mean like between startup between like oh yeah like a start maybe you did marketing for a while you go back to your finance roots I feel like there's a lot of things I feel like you would be great in fashion same Stella McCartney call me boom you're like the person I've never stressed out more about what to wear on this podcast I know you told me um because you are always like I did look more corporate today yeah but you you're always like on the trends Amanda's the person to call when like I'll have a very specific type of event and I have no idea what to wear to it and you're super helpful because you're always like here's screenshots of multiple options and you know that I'm budget budget conscious and not going to spend very much on almost anything so you're like here's here's shoes that like aren't going to break the bank but like you can keep for a long time but that are quality that like the it girls know about and you've never heard of this brand yeah like it's an it if you know you know and I'm like amazing that's exactly what I needed and I wear them all the time I've worn those shoes that I'm specifically talking about in my brain on this podcast already.

38:44Cass: Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. It's a blessing and a curse having me as a friend because I will also tell you if it doesn't look good. If I really love something and I really want to wear it, I won't show you because you'll probably be very brutally honest that like this isn't cool. Yeah. Have I ever complimented you? I'm just thinking about it. Ever of like what I'm wearing? Well, I like what you're wearing right now. You said that. Yeah. Because I stressed out about it. You did say that. which is good. That was very nice of you. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I do feel like if you do compliment something I'm wearing, it carries way more weight.

39:19Cass: Now, has it happened very often? No. Exactly. But that's OK. Yeah. I'm usually working towards it. Yeah. I reserve those comments. And then what would you tell somebody, maybe even yourself, 10 years ago? So like earlier in your career. How old am I? OK. I remember. You're 20. point four yeah but if you actually were 20 point four um don't date that guy no um what would i tell myself worry less like it's all gonna be okay yeah although you know you kind of need to go through it you need to go through it you need to have the grit maybe don't listen to people as much although i never did yeah i listened to people maybe too much i didn't i don't think very high I think people were all, I mean, even at Booth, it was, you know, well, unless you do this, you're not going to do this.

40:14Unless you do this, you're not doing this.

40:16Cass: It does feel much more black and white than it really is in like the spectrum of outcomes and different things. Yeah. It feels like if X, then Y. Yes. If this, then that. Yes. And that's not true. It's not true at all. So I think I would just say worry less and try to enjoy more like rest and downtime. I think that's very hard to unwind for me. Yes. I have the hardest time. It's very hard. Like even now, like not always being efficient or productive. It's very challenging to breathe. Yeah. So that would be my advice. Breathe more. Care less. I know. We had a good, we could have done that. We didn't do that.

40:58We did the exact opposite.

41:00Cass: Yeah. We cared way too much. We did the most. We did the most. Yeah. That's okay. We're here now. Yeah. We're here. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. I loved this. I loved it too. I could do this again tomorrow. I can't. I'm so sorry. Except I don't have any more outfits. I don't have any more outfits. But yeah, this was great. Thank you. Thank you guys.