Parker Gals | Everything's 'Figure-Out-Able': Going All In (w/ Hannah Song, Promus Equity Partners)

0:00Lean in, trust your gut, and go with what feels right for you. But once you make that decision, really go all in and push yourself to your limit. I think a lot of the best things that have happened so far for me in my life and my career have happened because I've pushed myself and really leaned in hard and went all in.

0:36Hi, everyone. I'm Liz Hsu, and welcome back to another episode of Parker Gals. We're here at the Parker Gale HQ with my co-host Cass and our guest, Hannah Song. Hannah is currently a senior associate at Promis Equity Partners here in Chicago, and she'll be heading off to UChicago booth this fall. Welcome to the show, Hannah. Thank you so much to you guys for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

1:01Cass: Okay, so you're at Promis Equity Partners. Can you give us a little bit of detail about what Promis invests in, what area of the market you invest in, what types of companies you invest in? Yeah, so we invest squarely in lower middle market companies. So think first time access to institutional capital, working a lot with founders, entrepreneur owned companies. We have a lot of portfolio companies in the consumer sector. And so whether that be a stationary company, a fishing company, in the food and beverage space as well, or in the consumer health space, a lot in the consumer side and touching manufacturing and industrial.

1:43Stationary. Stationary as well.

1:45Cass: Consumer is so fun because you can actually like touch the stuff. Right. Very cool. Wow. What's an example of consumer health? Consumer health, yeah. Like ordering type of thing? So that would count towards it. One of our larger investments is Quest products. And so that is more the lotions and potions, anything you find at CVS. The two that I worked on, one is called United Ortho. So they make orthopedic braces, knee walkers, et cetera. and then most recently Dr. Comfort. So they're the leading diabetic footwear provider. Oh, interesting. Okay, cool. Yeah, software we can't. I know. When we try to explain to people what we do, I'm like, we do like software that you and I would never see.

2:29It's business to business. It's business to business.

2:31Cass: So yeah, it's a little bit different, but I'm always, I like love hearing about what consumer products, like my friend invested in like a jam company recently that I was like, I've seen that jam at Whole Foods. Yeah, we actually have one of our largest investments is Pure Foods. And so they are the co-manufacturer for like Tate's Cookies, Oreos, a lot of those farm products. I'm very familiar with Tate's Cookies. Okay, I think it's probably worth, before we get into some of our other questions about your career, kind of taking a step back and hearing a little bit about how you got to Promis because it's a little bit, I find it interesting because we have a lot of things in common.

3:08Cass: But I think it's a very cool pivot that you made and a little bit non-traditional of a path that kind of went into more of a traditional path. Right. So tell me about we both went to U of I. Yep. ILL. ILL, I and I. We made it to the final four this year. Very exciting. So exciting. It's a good time to be in Illini. And U of I is a very accounting heavy school. Yeah, so I guess rewind. I specifically chose University of Illinois for their accounting program. Me at age 17, 18 knew I wanted to be in business. I wasn't quite sure what in business, but knew accounting is the language of business. So I give myself a pat on the back for knowing that at a young age, because I truly don't think I would have gotten to the positions I've gotten afterward had I not developed that strong foundation at U of I.

4:00So really glad I did that. And so I kind of set a goal freshman year of like, I'm going to be an audit partner one day and kind of went through the standard accounting recruiting pipeline. I did several accounting internships during college and ultimately started my career at KPMG in their asset management group with an audit. So at that point, I had no idea what private equity was. I had no idea what investment management really meant. But you're starting to audit them as your clients. Yeah, yeah. So making sure their financial statements all tick and tie. And what was interesting is in one of my internships with KPMG, I got the chance to be on the carve out engagement for GE Healthcare from General Electric.

4:42And so being on that audit team, making sure the past three years of historical financials were all set for the go for company. It was kind of my first taste of what a transaction looks like. And then later on, I got more and more exposure into kind of what private equity transactions look like at a more granular level. And so although I was on the audit side, I was starting to get that exposure in the industry and quickly realized exposure to like a very messy carve out.

5:11Cass: Yeah. Yeah. That's first. That's interesting. Yeah. So it made me realize I enjoy the numbers. I enjoy making sure all the data makes sense, but I want to also be on the front end and see how a company can really grow and thrive as well. Yeah. OK, so you're like, what's that over there? OK, so how do I go do that? Okay. No longer does Hannah want to be necessarily an audit partner. No, no. Um, but great foundation, a great foundation. Um, so you're how many years into KPMG when you're like, okay, I think I want to make this switch. How did you think about like, okay, so therefore I need to do X, Y, or Z?

5:49Yeah. So it was interesting. It was just before, um, the promotion cycle. And so going from associate to senior associate. But it also coincided with COVID. And so my second year at KPMG was right smack during COVID. And it definitely made me realize like, oh, there are parts of this job I love. There are parts that I maybe love less. And it kind of got the thought in my head of what if I were to try something new, whether within the firm or out of the firm. And coincidentally, that was also when M &A was booming across, not just in Chicago, but really everywhere. M &A was absolutely booming. Maybe a little bit ridiculously.

6:32Cass: Maybe we look back and we're like, we should have been booming that much. Right, right. And thankfully, maybe perhaps because I started in audit where I had friends who went straight into investment banking from college, I was able to rely on a lot of those friends and hear actually what their life was like and what aspects of their jobs that they enjoyed versus enjoyed less. And did a little bit of that diligence, I think, in the spring of 21. And also at that time, one of my good friends who was in investment banking was telling me, as I was looking at more QV work, transaction services roles, he gave me the tidbit of like, you have a very strong accounting foundation for lower middle market companies.

7:18That is exactly the skill set that's very helpful. Why don't you try doing investment banking recruiting? So that gave me the courage. And then I had to do a lot of like work on my own. I had to kind of get the Wall Street prep course, learn how to model, figure out what all these terms meant, get myself prepped for the technical interviews. So did that throughout the spring and was able to successfully recruit with Mesero Investment Banking, relied on my U of I network. A lot of their managing directors, VPs, associates also had U of I backgrounds. So that kind of was a natural entry point at the time that they were also very desperately needing so much, so much going on.

7:58Yeah. That's interesting.

8:02Cass: So what I tell people who are doing like the career switch that you moved is is kind of exactly what you did right you got like the wall street prep and you like you have to be able to nail the foundational technical questions because that's where they feel like they're going to get you from being like maybe you're coming from the outside right so like leave nothing to question that you can do those things like all day in your sleep and so you were like i have to invest to be able to prove that which is huge. And then you get to say, of course, I've got that. But also, I have this amazing accounting knowledge that other people don't have.

8:43Cass: So like, not only are you like, I clear this bar, but also I bring something else to the table. Yeah. And in addition to that as well, I think KPMG really set a good professional foundation for me. And so a lot of investment banking is so process driven. And a lot of what I learned at KPMG and audit was very process driven and being very detail-oriented, being very organized, and being able to kind of speak about those actual experiences, even if it wasn't doing transaction work for investment banking. A lot of the soft skills I learned at KPMG were definitely relevant. I still rely on them now.

9:17And being able to speak to that and articulate exactly the impact that I made, even if it wasn't in an investment banking role prior, I think helped to make that pivot a little smoother. Yeah.

9:27Cass: And then, okay, so then you were at Masero for how long? And so I didn't do the traditional path, right? But I imagine that some of your peers at Masero already recruited for PE early. So like, what was that recruiting cycle like? Or how did you think about like, I'm going to do investment banking for X amount of time? And then did you have to recruit off cycle for private equity then? Yeah. I was at Mesereau for a little over two and a half years. And when I went in, I knew this is the dream job that I knew I always wanted or had been working very hard towards with all the prep work that I was doing.

10:07So at that point, I didn't really think of private equity. I kind of thought, this is it. I'm going to do a great job. And I also very specifically picked Mesero for the amazing culture that they had and really knew that it would be a place where I would learn a lot and be surrounded by people who would support me. And that was absolutely the case. I'd say what led me to think of private equity as the year turned into two years, turned into two and a half years, was that I quickly realized as I became better at investment banking, I was becoming a very good salesperson. And ultimately, as I looked at directors and managing directors, much of their job was focused on building relationships and really making sure that they were selling the services of our firm for our clients and making sure that Mesero was top of mind for all lower middle market, middle market companies.

11:01at that point I also realized the parts I really enjoy about investment banking are less of that part and more of digging in deep and unfortunately with just the nature of investment banking working on at Upwards I was working on 10 live deals I remember there were times when I would leave the office the deal merge must be crazy leaving the office 3 a.m. to 4 a.m. getting back in the office between 9 and 10 a.m. for multiple days consecutively, multiple weeks consecutively. And there just wasn't enough time to dig in deep for each company because we had to do everything for all the companies.

11:41Cass: There's literally like that's a math problem that can't be solved. You can't do everything as one person. Right. And so it was more of like a mile wide, an inch deep. I wanted to go a mile deep into the companies that I was really interested in, specifically more consumer products, food and beverage companies. And once I had that realization, that's when I kind of, again, relied on my friends who had been in the seat before, my friends who started in investment banking and were now in PE seats, talking to them, learning about their roles, learning about what they liked, liked less, and got the realization, okay, private equity is definitely the next step for me.

12:21Cass: Yeah. What I love about how you've framed and thought about your career so far is that you're open to other possibilities. But I love that you're like, I'm just all in. Like I'm all in on audit and I'm going to become an audit partner. Okay, well, you know what? I'm open to other possibilities. Let's pivot and do this investment banking thing. I'm all in on investment banking. I'm not going to like, I'm just going to like ride this out. I feel like there are a lot of people in this profession who are just constantly viewing everything as a stepping stone and like versus like I'm gonna just go all in and what I'm doing and part of it is like the recruiting cycle kind of almost forces you to view it as a stepping stone if you're not doing off cycle because you're like or you feel like unprepared when the time comes yeah because it's like you're only x amount like two months in and you're already getting calls from recruiters and you're already interviewing for the next thing like to just have the mental attitude of like no like i'm just going to do this i'm not even thinking about the next thing like this is the thing is probably like a huge benefit to how you approached your day-to-day i think so i can't say i have done that intentionally i think just no but i think that's great it's a part of my personality yeah um but at times i've also thought like oh i feel behind because my peers knew exactly what they wanted to do they knew exactly they were going to end up in private equity.

13:47And so a lot of my peers are a couple years younger than I am or a few years younger than I am. And at times they feel like, oh, I'm falling behind perhaps. But then I quickly flipped my mindset and realized actually because I've gotten additional experience and have had the chance to explore different areas that I enjoy, enjoy less and want to learn more about, it's given me an edge in different ways in that I bring different perspectives that others might not have. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like you have a certain like assuredness and like what you're doing that I feel like maybe the people a couple years behind you don't have because they've been following the timeline, whereas you've been very thoughtful about each step and deliberate about choosing where to go and when.

14:30And so it gives you that like groundedness. Yeah.

14:34Cass: Speaking of choosing where to go, the last thing that we have in common in our careers is that I'm a Booth alumni. You are heading to Booth this fall. So excited. Talk a little bit about that. So like that choice, because, hey, you made it. You're in private equity. You're in the seat. Like you're a senior associate. How did you think about business school to go to business school, not to go to business school? And like, as you think about what you want to do next? Yeah. So I, when I joined Promise, I was actually their first hire in over four years. And more or less a guinea pig for a two year rotation for an associate role.

15:15And I was completely on board.

15:18Cass: I was very excited. Which is very that's that's the normal. Yeah. Like in private equity in general. Right. Like a two year program is the usual expectation. Right. And I was thankfully able to interview with over 30 different private equity firms. across the coast, had done multiple super days. And so I picked ProMas because I knew I would, similar to Mesereau, I knew I'd be surrounded by great people who could really mentor me as not only a professional but as a person and being surrounded by a great culture as well. And so even though I knew, okay, two-year program, In-N-Out, I was so overjoyed to get that offer.

15:56But with that, I knew, okay, two years, time's ticking, let's go backwards. And so business school was kind of the logical next step. But as the year went on, as one year turned into two years, just before I hit the two-year mark, my partners actually surprised me with a promotion to the senior associate role, even though coming in, I knew it wasn't maybe on the table. So definitely when I got that promotion, it made the decision making whether or not to go to business school much more difficult. I had many conversations. Thank you so much. And now I feel like what what a good problem to have.

16:36It's a great problem. Yeah. I at that point, though, in the fall, I felt like I was having an existential crisis, to be honest, because it's like I have two great choices to make. And you have one life. Right. So you got to choose one. And ultimately, I wish I could do both. I knew I didn't want to do a part time program. And so I only applied to full time programs. I knew kind of like how you mentioned when I go all in when I said something I tend to go all in yeah I had a lot of conversations with a lot of my mentors who are decades ahead of me in their careers I had a lot of conversations with friends who I've been at b-school a few years prior friends who are in b-school now peers who are are never going to b-school because they just know that they won't yeah and after what feels like hundreds of conversations over a very short amount of time going through all my decision making frameworks of like okay do I go to do I not go and then okay I know I'm gonna go which school do I go to um so after a lot of deliberations a lot of thoughtful um conversations as well landed on booth is absolutely the next step for me amazing can I give you some advice

17:49Cass: absolutely about booth please do CC Zhang used to work here and she really helped me work on my applications but she gave me the advice which is counterintuitive okay and you could totally fail at this within the first week and based on the information I know about you so far in this interview alone yeah you may fail at this this is why I'm telling you it's on the record so she told me she was like Cass when you go to business school she went to HBS and she was like the best thing that I did was not immediately sign up to be a leader of something. That's the best thing. That's the best thing. I know.

18:29Cass: Okay. Don't think about that a little bit. Don't freak out. Don't freak out. She was like, let other people jump on that and just enjoy being a member of the group. I know you are a co-president of PEEK. I'm the co-president of the Private Equity Association of Chicago, which is a nonprofit of over 400 members casual board of 21. Yes, exactly. So I feel like this is not going to come naturally. This is why I say this. Um, she was like, just enjoy. There are plenty of people who are going to jump on those positions. You've already up until this point in your career had plenty of leadership positions and opportunities like ride out what it feels like to just benefit from being a member of a couple of clubs without feeling like you need to organize and lead those clubs right away.

19:21Cass: So I think day three at Booth, you could be a section leader and there's elections. And there was this thing in me that was like, should I be putting my name in the hat? And so many people do. And I was like, Cece, I'm not going to do it. And it was so nice. So I feel like I got to be very intentional. By the time that my second year came around, I got to be very intentional on where I wanted to spend my time because I wasn't beholden to a position that I like threw myself into right away. Now you can call me in like six months and be like, I am now president of the PE club or whatever. And I will be like that tracks.

20:00Cass: But I feel like it's a little bit of like contrarian advice. Like people don't think that, but I thought it was actually really helpful for me. I'm writing that down in my notepad in my brain. Yes. and then you'll be like absolutely not this is you know take it take it with a grain of salt take it you could you could ignore the advice no I actually think I will follow up mainly because I've heard from so many people that first quarter flies by like a blur there's so much that you can do it gives it does give you just an opportunity to like just sit back and like let some let some things unfold and decide where you want to spend your time because it's so easy to fill up your calendar it I look back at that and I kind of laugh because I'm like I felt so busy in business school but like it's totally all of your own yeah making right so that's my challenge we'll check in with you we'll do like a we'll do like a six month check-in for the podcast yeah just be like so how many clubs are you leading we absolutely won't be running a bet on that we we absolutely will not be definitely not I'll keep you posted yes well great

21:13Okay, so the next section of the interview is, we like to call it the indication of interests, or the IOI, which are just three rapid fire questions that will help our audience get to know the real Hannah a little bit more. So if you're ready, the first question is, what is your go-to comfort show? Oh, that is a great question. So I'm much more of a movies person. I don't watch shows. You have a comfort movie? That you watch over and over? I watch, so my fun fact of many fun facts is I have three movies that I've each watched 20 times. So not three movies I've watched 20 times in total, each movie 20 times.

21:53And they are, in no particular order, Inception, Ratatouille, and La La Land. Those are great choices. Wow.

22:01Cass: I do love Ratatouille. I've tried to force my four-year-old to like Ratatouille as much as me. And I think she senses the forcedness. And she's like, I don't like this rat movie. what is this oh my gosh it's great it freaked me out when i first watched it as a child because i have a major rodent rodentia family phobia and you're living in chicago that's why i'm not that's why i'm not living in new york because in chicago the streets are so wide you can see the rat coming you can give it a wide berth i've never seen a rat here that guy's like on your foot already before you've had a chance to see it so that is okay i'm in chicago actually but um that's that's the only reason liz is in chicago amazing amazing okay the second question what is something you can cook without looking at a recipe so it's actually ratatouille no it's the dish ratatouille the dish was it obviously inspired by the movie did you learn how to do it because you're like i need to make that dish yeah that one scene that final ending scene it it truly did inspire me and then i'm like i'm gonna learn how to make this can we insert the ratatouille i know right

23:22it's actually quite simple it's very time consuming just because every slice of right is so the vegetables have to be thin so that's the only annoying part but otherwise i've never made it i've just watched the movie several times it doesn't look cool it's yeah okay how does yours

23:36Cass: compare to what you think it would taste like watching the movie i can never compare mine to what's in the movie the movie version is just perfection it looks amazing but i've had gotten great feedback on my friends okay from my friends who have tried now do you do you host people over to watch ratatouille and eat ratatouille i've actually never done that before but i will that's It's a good business school friend making come over. Because you can feed a lot of people. Right. It's a whole stew worth of food. Wow. Okay. That's a good one. That is good. Very unique. And last one. What is your perfect Saturday?

24:15I'd say there are multiple iterations of perfect Saturdays that I'd enjoy equally. But right now for this Saturday.

24:23Cass: You'll do great negotiations class based off of that statement alone. But yes, continue. Thank you, Cass. I'd say for this immediate Saturday, my perfect day would be a beautiful sunny day. Wake up early. Get a nice run in on the lakefront. Make myself a nice hearty breakfast with some yogurt and granola. And spending some quiet time, mainly because during the week I'm on so many calls, meetings, meeting so many people. So I think it would be nice to have just a few hours to read a book and be alone with my thoughts for a bit. but then also seeing a bunch of my friends in the evening having dinner together having a nice fun night out yeah it'll be a perfect day I feel like like a big nice leisurely breakfast is at like 11 30 oh man that's like that's like my dream like vacation like starts every morning with like a leisurely like big breakfast would you want it like in bed or in a restaurant honestly I'm not a big in bed person because I'm like we're too messy for that I agree grubby grubby fingers and and nice sheets no yeah no yeah like uh but yeah give me an outside table like I'll I'll eat my I'll take my breakfast on the balcony or like if you go to Bali or Thailand you could have your breakfast in the pool on a floating you are definitely ready for business school definitely just add it to the tab of student loans oh folly let's go perfect amazing

26:00Cass: okay so now um the less hard-hitting questions other you know ratatouille hard-hitting question we're going to get into your career um so we talked a little bit about this um that you kind of were interested in this path when you were at mesero you started thinking about private equity but what really drew you to private equity? Yeah, I think a lot of it is my natural inclination to solve problems. And I feel like the more I'm in private equity, the more I realize it is all about problem solving. Turns out there's a lot of problems. Different types of problems, but they all require solutions. Another fun fact about me, I love solving puzzles, like jigsaw puzzles.

26:42And actually one of my B-School essays was all, it was a metaphor about puzzles. and actually add that to a perfect Saturday. I'll spend some time. A little puzzle movement. But with that, I've kind of seen parallels of that with private equity as well, of whether it's building a team, you might have a perfect CEO or a perfect CFO. You still need to find everyone else for that management team that will fit together nicely like a puzzle or figuring out a new product launch. Okay, how do we think about the different types of products in the portfolio? How do we think about new product development and whatnot?

27:20All the different problems that we encounter on a day-to-day basis all require solutions. And long-winded answer, but the problem-solving aspect of it.

27:29Cass: Yeah, there's like a lot of strategy on top of just like, okay, I can model the heck out of this business and the returns look like X, Y, Z. But there's also these like very interesting strategic problems that bubble up that are all a little bit different. Right. And it's like it's the fun part about private equity is solving those problems with great people and surrounding myself and surrounding different management teams with other smart people so that it's ultimately a big team sport in a sense. So I'd say, yeah, the people aspect and then the problem solving aspect are the parts I really enjoy.

28:02Cass: Awesome. Speaking of the people aspect, I feel like you've mentioned several times about like different people you've reached out to in the U of I alumni network or I love how much you engage in conversations before you make a career switch. It sounds like you reach out to a lot of people, get a ton of different perspectives about business school, about switching out of audit. if you think about kind of like one or two mentors, I'm sure you have a collection of wonderful mentors just based on what I've heard so far today alone. But if you can pinpoint kind of like one or two that have shaped you the most so far in your career, tell us a little bit about it.

28:44Yeah, I'd say one of my mentors that I speak to regularly and grab lunch, I'd say once a quarter is my staffer actually from banking. His name's Chris. And he is someone who, even from the recruiting stage, knew my potential, could see that clearly. And as I joined the firm and was getting on live engagements, he was able to put me in great scenarios where he knew my strengths would shine and also put me in very difficult scenarios where he knew I would learn a lot. But so still to this day, I am very grateful that I had someone kind of in my back corner who could identify my strengths and weaknesses and be really all in on developing all aspects of me as a professional.

29:30So very grateful for his mentorship and his candidness, too, about just whenever I'm going through a dilemma and knowing that I could reach out and get his honest thoughts. I'd say a more recent mentor is my mentor, Christine. She is a managing director at J.P. Morgan. I was able to build a natural relationship with her as we have J.P. Morgan in a few of our deals, but got to know her just naturally at offices. And I reached out to her after one meeting with her and kind of told her, frankly, like this was the first time when I was in a room with a senior woman Asian in finance. and I wish I had had this encounter years prior, but in my entire career to date, this was the first time.

30:20And I asked like, would you be open to grabbing lunch the next time you're in town? And she was overjoyed to, she was saddened, but also overjoyed to make the connection. And so over the past year or so, she's been just a great mentor from an overall career standpoint and even just a life standpoint as well, since she's someone very similar to me, also Korean American, has stepped the path that I hope to step on just many years prior. And whether it be thinking about my career or thinking about B-School or even just having a conversation about life, she's been someone that I knew I could reach out to and she'll be there for me.

30:59Cass: Yeah. Major kudos to you for like taking that vulnerable step too and like reaching out to be like hey would you like to get lunch because like I don't get to see people who look like me in a position like yours yeah and that's that's awesome you kind of like made that happen for yourself which is huge I I'm just so grateful that she was receptive to it um but I also like to think even outside of my mentors and close relationships I made me maybe it's because that um like I've been living on my own in the States for over a decade. I've had to figure things out on my own quickly and not always with all the right answers.

31:39So I naturally just think, okay, why not ask the people who have gone down the path? Because kind of like reading a book, I enjoy reading books to learn about, okay, someone who wrote this book is an expert about this topic. I'll naturally learn faster by reading this book rather than trying to problem solve every single detail on my own. So just day to day I like to kind of keep those relationships think about okay what can I learn from someone whether that be a close friend a mentor or someone I meet just randomly yeah and it's cool that you like met her in a bit of an unexpected forum as well just like some a vendor relationship that developed into something a lot more and so you really don't know where your next connection is going to come from so right it doesn't just have to be like a LinkedIn cold

32:27Cass: outreach yeah um speaking of learning through books through people what's something that you have learned recently that you wish you knew sooner i'd say one lesson is realizing that you don't have to know everything to step into a responsibility type of role um to expand on that But in my role as senior associate, I'm currently on a live deal for a new platform where it's just me, a managing partner and a partner. No VP, no principal. It's just quite literally me on the investments team. And so with that, I've had to really flex up and learn what it means to essentially quarterback a deal on my own.

33:20knowing that it's it's a role that I knew I would step into someday but when I got on this live deal very excited but it's like I I don't know if I can do all this right now I don't have all the answers I don't know what it means to be a VP that's why I'm a senior associate right now yeah um but with that and a lot of that was my partners giving me the trust too knowing that they saw something in me they knew I could handle it yeah um so even though going into it I was extremely anxious, extremely nervous, because I didn't have all the right answers. I kind of leaned into it and almost like, what's the phrase like, fake it till you make it?

33:57Yeah, that's the phrase. I'm very familiar with that phrase. Yeah. So every day I wake up, it's like, okay, put on my quarterback hat. Let's get this deal done. And so yeah, that's a newer lesson. It's always been kind of in the back of my mind. But this is the first time where I'm learning it in practice every day of I might not have the full title I might not have the formal responsibilities of a certain position but I'm living them right now I don't have all the answers but everything's

34:24Cass: figureoutable let's get it done everything's figureoutable I like that yeah you're like that's I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna say too much on that because I don't I don't want to give anybody any ideas you know everything's everything's figureoutable everything's totally no I think you are incredibly like well positioned and like you obviously have tons of experience under your belt at this point and like I think everyone can kind of see um how ready you are and I guess like I'm curious as you've been going through that have you been surprised at like how well you've been able to rise to the challenge or have you been discouraged in places and been like oh like actually that was really hard and I don't know if I did that well like how has that kind of mental experience gone so far?

35:14Yeah for me I'd say earlier in my career I was more the latter camp of every tiny error every little mistake whenever I got a piece of critical feedback from my managers at KPMG of like oh this didn't perfectly tie yeah all of those feedback points to me felt like the world was crashing down. I think just with natural maturity, as I grew into more of a mid-level professional, I've come to realize that feedback is a gift. I love feedback now. It's good or bad. Give me all the feedback. Because those are all learning points. And I think over time, I've learned not to take every piece of feedback as a personal point.

35:59Yeah, it's hard

35:59Cass: not to take it personally. But if you can flip that switch in your brain and you could be like, oh they're only kind of giving me this feedback because they care about they think you can fix it yeah it's like if it's a lost cause they're probably not even going to tell you yeah right and for me too as I've mentored junior professionals um throughout PPMG, Masero and now it's I try to be in the seat of kind of giving graceful feedback and kind of up front telling them hey like this is not about you as an individual this is only because I know you're you could learn a couple new things that will help you be ready for the next stage and and so yeah to answer your question I was definitely more the latter earlier on I'd say now I kind of just going back to the fake it till you make it put on the mindset every day of like you know what it's going to be a great day I'm going to win today I'm naturally very competitive yeah and I kind of like to gamify a lot of things in my brain of like okay I have a lot of modeling that I have to do that I don't necessarily want to do how quickly can I do it or how quickly can I do it without having rough errors at the end or what can I do to like make it more fun essentially like taking any boring task making it a little bit more challenging and fun and making it a game I think just helps me think of it as like okay I'm winning today yeah repeat the next day yeah on the game the gamification point I think me and at least one other person I know something we do when we're like have to face a big excel that you don't want to do it's like you put your big headphones on you put some EDM on and you're like EDM I'm just DJing right now I'm just DJing I'm going to try that actually.

37:48Yeah. I'm going to actually going back to U of I. So I'm a huge fan of John Summit. He was two years ahead of me at U of I. I didn't know him personally then, but some of my friends knew him personally. There you go. And I'm very excited to see him at U of I for homecoming. Playing the Excel. Yeah. Playing the Excel. There you go. Exactly. Yeah.

38:07Cass: Amazing. Exactly. We're all just John Summit. Times have changed. I don't listen to the EDM. I listened, but I remember I did a rotation into KPMG corporate finance. I call it iBanking Lite because it was just like for like four months. And I remember putting on headphones and listening to not EDM, but Eminem. Oh. I feel like that may be not cool. No. What's not cool about that? But that was my like, I just need like somebody who's screaming at me. Just run faster. You know, rabbit run. Amazing. Amazing. Okay. So what is something that other than going back and facing a model while listening to EDM and pretending you're a DJ, what's something else that you're really interested in or excited about right now?

39:02I'm sure everyone who comes on this podcast will likely say the same thing, but it's very interesting to see AI. Does it start with an A and end with an I? Then yes. Yeah. Our firm, our partners are all about it. Right now we're in the process of redoing our whole branding and our website. And before we kind of got a professional designer up and running, we kind of just played around with Chachapiti and Claude. And turns out they can make beautiful websites. But of course, we still need the professionals to make it functional.

39:33Cass: Yeah, it's like that like last mile, right? Yeah. But same way with even my current role, really leaning into AI to simplify a lot of the more mundane aspects so that I can use more of my brain on the judgment aspects of the job. So it's been great being a part of a team that really embraces AI and coming from the top down, our managing partner loves AI. He's like, make sure everyone's on board. And so naturally our team is all excited about it. And then it goes down to our portfolio companies and our management teams as well. So, yeah. Yeah. And I'd imagine if you're playing senior associate, VP and associate.

40:12Right. It's helpful to have a little AI associate running around as well. Yes. Especially for like NDA negotiations, like CatchBT is a better lawyer than I will ever be. And so little things like that love having AI as a tool or even with like graphics of like, oh, I will draw out exactly what I want a slide to look like, kind of get inspiration, have JGPT take a first cut and then I'll fine tune and make it better. So it's kind of like using it as my own associate right now. Totally.

40:43Cass: As I have to flex up in a lot of different ways. Yeah. That's like amazing to have the option that even like a year ago or two years ago, you certainly wouldn't have had to this extent. And then what is a commonly held belief about private equity that maybe you don't hold or like something that you don't necessarily believe or think a certain way? So like commonly held belief about private equity that you disagree with. I wonder if other people have also mentioned this, but I think most people think private equity finance and they think, oh, it's all about numbers. It's all about getting deals done and just very heavily finance focused.

41:27Finance, finance, Excel, Excel. Right, right. But I've come to realize like one of my managing partners, she did not have a traditional finance accounting background. and yet she is one of the smartest people that I know. One of my partners I work with on a daily basis, he also did not have a traditional finance accounting background. He had more of an operating background and I learn from him every day. I soak up his knowledge and wisdom like a sponge because he thinks about the problems that we all have to solve in such a different perspective and light. And I think being surrounded by leaders who don't necessarily have the traditional bread and butter finance and accounting archetypes have also allowed me to be a much better investor.

42:09And now that I'm kind of like going into meetings with founders, sourcing opportunities for the firm, attending conferences on my own, and having those kind of one-on-one conversations with bankers about new opportunities, I've been trained naturally by my managing partners and partners to ask questions that not every professional will ask.

42:33Cass: Oh, well, if I put this in the model, then that. Right. Right. And so a lot of the feedback that I've gotten now that I'm in those meetings alone or once I was in management presentations early on, like day two of my time at Proma so far, a lot of the feedback that we'll get from companies we meet with is, oh, wow, you guys are the first person or you guys are the first firm to ever ask us these types of questions. Usually we have to have a whole notepad full of very detailed responses to financial questions because that's all most firms will ask about. And so maybe it's a lower middle market thing.

43:13Maybe it's a Chicago lower middle market thing. Maybe it's a PROMIS thing. But I'm very grateful that I've gotten the training that I've gotten to think beyond the numbers. Think about the company itself. think about the problems that they are solving and if it's a great company the numbers will show it if it's a bad company the numbers will show it but what numbers cannot tell you is exactly how a company is running yeah um so yeah i think that's that's kind of a common misconception that

43:41Cass: yeah no i i haven't heard that exact flavor or take and i and i love that and to your earlier point about the problems to be solved at these businesses like they're not usually like that the CFO can't forecast or put together a budget. Like they are a people problem or a strategy problem or a go-to-market problem. And there's much more breadth to this role than just like, oh, if I put in these numbers, these are the numbers that come out at the end of the day. Yeah, totally.

44:19All right. So that brings us to the last section of the interview, which is called The Closing Call. Rapid fire, three questions. Give it your best shot. Our first question for you is what is the best book you've read this year? Definitely Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell.

44:38Cass: I'm a huge fan of his. Okay. Are you talking about the original Tipping Point that came out like a decade ago? or are you talking about Revenge of the Tipping Point, which came out more recently where he revisits his book? Oh. So I, apparently, I need to brush up on my Malcolm Gladwell knowledge. I did not know that there was anyone. No, if you love Tipping Point, this is great news for you. If you love Tipping Point, definitely check out Revenge of the Tipping Point because there's some stuff that he goes back and revisits and says, like, oh, I was right about this, or I didn't quite think about that, or, like, yes, and.

45:14Cass: And here's some new information, which is just like, hey, this is great news for you. This is you got if you love that. Wait, there's more. I will go to Barnes and Noble after this interview ends and purchase that. Where's our commission check? Thank you, Malcolm. Yeah. All right. Second, what is your go to karaoke song? I'm not a huge karaoke fan, but when I am called to the mic to do it. You are called to the mic. people are like you must i will say i go between two the first is unwritten by natasha bunningfield excellent choice love that song um and wake up by hillary dove i love i feel like this is this is like this is clearly a theme like your positive vibes yeah and like early 2000s like the unwritten vibe totally matches what you've been saying this whole time i'm just like i'm in this phase and I'm all in and I'm crushing it.

46:14But like there's so much more to come and I just don't know yet. I don't know yet. Love it. Thank you. Great. And last one is what did the 10-year-old Hannah want to be when she grew up and how far off was she? So when I was younger, I really wanted to be a teacher. I naturally enjoy kind of, I think it's very rewarding too to teach someone something new and seeing them as they learn it and then seeing that spark in their eyes when they get it. I consider myself a lifelong learner. I love challenges and solving problems and learning new things. And so when I'm able to teach parts of that to other people, whether it be in a professional setting or not, I just have a lot of enjoyment out of it.

47:00So did not become a teacher in a traditional sense, but I think no matter which stage of my career I've been in, And I've just naturally been inclined to mentor and give back to younger colleagues. Was there a specific subject you wanted to teach or just anything? I think language arts. Yeah.

47:19Cass: Yeah, I could see that. You're a cool English teacher. Yeah. I love literature. You love books. Yes. And like, I mean, I was born in Korea when I was five. So English was very much a second language. but I think in with learning English I just really got a deep dive in like the technical aspects of English and oh yeah it's a very difficult language language to learn as your second language like oh my gosh yeah so we're actually going to sneak in a bonus question here what would you tell somebody earlier in their career who's sitting exactly where you were five years ago. So audit, KPMG, what advice would you give that person now?

48:00Yeah, I'd say more or less kind of similar to the steps I took, lean in, trust your gut, and go with what feels right for you. But once you make that decision, really go all in and push yourself to your limit. Can't say whether that's good or bad, but I think a lot of the best things that have happened so far for me in my life and my career have happened because I've pushed myself and really leaned in hard and went all in. And so I'd say at that point in my life, a lot was very uncertain. We were just ending a global pandemic. Hopefully we'll never have one again. But I leaned into the uncertainty, trusted my gut and kind of jumped head in first.

48:48And so

48:48Cass: I would say the same I love that that's advice for five years ago that's advice for me right now that's that's that's great advice for I think anybody so 100 thank you so much for coming on thanks Hannah this is really great I always learn so much I always come out like so inspired to like just like I know I'm gonna win the day yeah I have a new mantra to wake up yeah I love that start your day off with affirmations. Yes. Winner's mindset. Winner's mindset. Amazing. Well, thank you. This was a blast. Thank you, Cass. Good luck in business school. Yes. I'll keep you posted on how many. We'll be checking in.

49:25Cass: We'll maybe like do like a LinkedIn like poll. Like how long do you think Hannah will last before she becomes president of something? President of the whole thing. Yeah. Of the whole thing. Amazing. Thank you.

49:43Thank you.