Parker Gals | How a College Point Guard Built a PE Career (w/ Brogan Magnarelli, Riverspan Partners)

0:00Cass: You rarely want to be the smartest person in a room. Yeah. So when I first joined private equity, oh my God, I asked so many dumb questions, like questions that literally keep me up at night being like, oh, I'm so embarrassed that I asked those. That I said this out loud. But that was honestly with that, like you get a lot of knowledge and you also build your confidence. If you find yourself to be the smartest person in a room, you need to find another room. Yep.

0:35Cass: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Parker Gales podcast. We're here at Parker Gale HQ. I'm your host, Cass Zeebel, and I am here today with Brogan Magnarelli, who is a principal at Riverspan. How are you doing, Brogan? I'm good, Cass. Excited to be here. Not my normal forum, but excited to chat with you. I'm so excited. I feel like there's a handful of people that I was like, I feel like you would be a great great person to be on without knowing what the heck like you're down you're just like I'll do it I usually am bound to clown yeah and I feel like since I've known you now for maybe three years like I trust you and what you're doing so I bet it will be great yes so I appreciate that okay so you with a lot of other people I know in private equity who end up in private equity I don't know if it's like a glutton for punishment or what it is but you were a college athlete I was yes you were point guard at Harvard.

1:28Cass: Yes. And I would love to go a little bit into your career history and a little bit about playing basketball at Harvard because I feel like that's amazing. Because you don't have like that typical and neither do I of like investment banking to this to that. And it's it's just an interesting career path to where you are today. Yes. So essentially I I always joke that I just keep falling upward. And I think that is because of kind of basketball and being an athlete my whole life. I grew up in Ohio, played basketball, youngest of four siblings, all very, very competitive. So you're the youngest of four.

2:08Cass: I'm the baby, yeah. Brothers, sisters mix? Brothers, sister, brother. Oh, wow. So all athletes, soccer, basketball, baseball, you name it. Our kids did it. My dad was our coach growing up. So as you can imagine, grew up with not a chip, but like very competitive, always a little sibling and that kind of propelled my career yeah um so when I was looking to play in college I kind of really wanted to get education first I had teammates who went to all like you know division one schools but I just really wanted a good education which is like a great way to think about it Harvard called me and I was like oh wow like I could go to Harvard like yeah that's always a dream growing up in Dayton Ohio like you would love to go somewhere like that I think the biggest ripple effect of my life was getting into Harvard and then it was just an incredible experience like yeah playing basketball learning hanging out with friends like I don't think I could have had a more exciting yeah college experience and then with basketball it was also great like we you know a little bit bitter but we got a second all four years of my Ivy League play okay but I made it to the NIT twice had a really good career got to like actually play all four years and that was what I wanted to do right um and so it was just like a really fun um very impressionable experience in my life.

3:18Cass: Yeah, that's amazing. So I double checked that I haven't said this. So I apologize if I have said this story before on this podcast already. But I also played basketball in college, super legitimately, just like you. No, there we go. Very illegitimately. But I played when I studied abroad. Oh my gosh. Yes, that is that is serious. It's so serious. It was so serious. when I was studying abroad I found like the girls practice and I like went up to the coach at the girls practice and I was like hey like if you need an extra body like I would love to scrimmage or run drills or like play defense or whatever and he was like you're American and I was like yes he was like you're on the team oh my god and I was like what do you mean I'm on the team and he was like yeah like I was like but I'm gonna travel and do other things and don't don't worry about it just make what you can make here's your jersey what size are you that's great our coach would bring uh an equipment bag to every game filled with basketballs and beers like lukewarm beers from his fridge and if you won you got a lukewarm beer you got a beer oh wow you could drink beer in the equipment room afterwards and if you didn't win no beer for you no lukewarm beer well i unfortunately never got that offer did that not happen at harvard never never got lukewarm beers for for winning well but you did something that i never got to play because i actually tried to play overseas after i graduated and i had one offer in england but it was a little sketchy at the time women's basketball was a little sketchy i had to like work and like live in housing that was provided for me yeah so you did something that i was never able to do which is play internationally so i i played it it's a running joke around here just because we have so many like different actually legitimate athletes but who can say that come through Parker Gale so I always like to lighten the low to be like I also played in college you don't worry about I played you take that run with it yes um but I love that okay so you didn't play internationally after school you thought about it yeah um and then what did you do and so how were you thinking about after your career I kind of only had a one-track mind I was like basketball basketball, basketball for most of my life.

5:32And then kind of when it didn't work out, I kind of was just like, oh crap, what do I do? What did you study? So I studied psychology, understanding why people do what they do and figured I would kind of go into quote unquote sales at some point or largely business. I didn't know what that would look like. And then right at it, when I was training to play, you know, professionally, I started helping out an old basketball coach who started a retail business that was like licensed gear for like NBA, NHL, NCAA. So I started working for him kind of free as an intern and then did one year with him right out of college and I was the first paid employee like literally doing like hiring designers to design the stuff like packaging the stuff myself creating lookbooks by hand and in PowerPoint right um I learned a lot in that experience but it wasn't kind of didn't have the longevity yeah and then my now husband actually helped me get a job at a company called Boingo Wireless as an account manager so they at the time known for wi-fi they do cellular offloading they do a lot of other things but i was placed in chicago to be their account manager so working with all of our accounts kind of seeing the interesting model change from you know i'm sure business travelers were known for a while it was all paid wi-fi yes in the terminals yes and then it went to hybrid so bringing in some advertisement and now it's all free so i was in like that first half of like negotiating contracts and like changing all the wall garden and changing the experiences so I got to help do that for a while which is a really I remember being like I'll watch 10 Disney ads but I don't want to pay for yeah and and who does as now everything's free yeah and so that was kind of the first jump in my career and then again my my now husband he was out in LA and I was in Chicago so I essentially self-located out there and I hate to admit but I did move for a man um and then I ended up going I think that's a good sign of partnership though like either way it goes

7:21Cass: like you're committed. And I also think people get so locked into like a career or building a career somewhere. And I think taking the risk of like, I can move, I can figure this out is a huge mindset unlock. Yes. And like, and like growth has just been constant in my career and jumping into the unknown. And then I ended up actually pivoting into product management. So I ended up being a product manager and working directly with engineering teams. And that is an interesting skill set that has actually served me extremely well here in private equity because not many people who come up through that traditional investing career have any sort of technology background.

7:58So I've basically been able to build two websites, do all of our, I've been a CRM admin for 12 years at this point in my career, help with all the CRM integration and any sort of tech stack. I have at least some experience building that, like making it functional across team. That was a really interesting experience and I loved working for that company. But ultimately knew I wanted to get back into like more customer facing sales roles because I think relationship management is probably like my strongest skill set. And then at the time I pivoted into GE Healthcare through one of their commercial sales and leadership training programs.

8:34And they're known for being great, you know, educators and trainers. And then from there, I got placed back here in Chicago. Yeah.

8:41Cass: You literally couldn't like replicate your career journey again if you tried yes I feel like I talk to people about this a lot yeah I have the I always say untraditional path private equity yeah and so then I came back to GE Healthcare and I was joking brought my husband back to the Midwest so he moved for you yeah there you go give and take I liked the sales but it was very like lonely you're on the road a lot and then a recruiter found me for private equity for my prior firm for healthcare and I honestly was like what excuse me I have no finance background. I'm pretty terrible in Excel. I've gotten much better.

9:17I believe it. It's okay.

9:18Cass: There's AI for that now. Yeah, exactly. But I've always been very open to learning new experiences. And during the interview process there, I just realized it was an incredible fit for everything that I'd done in my past career. So, again, obviously a lot of relationship management, a lot of tech integration, a lot of quarterbacking and working cross-functionally, which is something I have. and it kind of just became this like perfect fit for me and then from there I made my way to reverse band which is the firm I'm currently at which is industrial focused private equity and that was essentially just another like springboard for me to start a business development program from the ground up I was the fourth employee to join and just really have a lot of autonomy a lot of runway to build and and do what I've been practicing for the last you know called 13-14 years and really run with it year reverse band which has been again untraditional path.

10:08Cass: Yeah. But just keep falling forward. Keep figuring it out as you go. Yeah. I think two things when I hear your career story. The first is I think a lot of people who like want to break into private equity. They don't think about like they're like oh I didn't do X, Y, and Z therefore. And they don't think about well I did do A, B, and C. And like actually if I think about those skill sets that I've gotten, this is filling in a gap that a lot of PE firms don't like have and how valuable is that? And I think you have to obviously approach a firm that will is willing to listen to that story or like a firm will find you that is willing to hear that story.

10:53Cass: But I think the firms that are open to, hey, the path doesn't have to look the exact same, are actually able to do something different in a good way. And I think you being able to translate, actually that project management experience, that sales experience, that CRM experience is extremely valuable. Like is a no brainer in my head as somebody who works at a private equity firm, because I could just totally see how that would be extremely valuable. But I think a lot of people who are trying to break in count themselves out. they're like, well, I need to go back to go forward. Like none of the experience that I've gotten so far actually applies.

11:34Cass: It's like, no, a lot of that actually probably does apply in unique ways. And you don't know what we don't know. So I would not have known this role even existed unless you were to reach out to me. And that's what's the beautiful thing about private equity is it's kind of shifting a little bit. Whereas like it used to be only investment professional. You had to go to investment banking. You had to go get your MBA. You had to come back. And now like you're an operating role. I'm in a business development role. There is investor relations there is also other skill sets that are not straight fairway investment banking you know mba so i again i've been very lucky and fortunate but i always say like i feel like i talk to like a lot of college students and i i try to if anyone ever asked me for what's business development i always take those calls because it's all just about educating yourself on like what these roles exist and they do look different from each firm like last firm looks very different than my role here and yes you know there's a bunch of different forms it can take but again i always stress on gathering skills at every step of the way it doesn't have to be the right job it could just be the best job for right now gather those skills and learning how to essentially market yourself are the two things that i always harp on like just gather gather gather yep you can build some relationships to networking is a huge part of it as well yep and then like knowing how to sell your skills making them transferable making you a value asset but you're never gonna get there unless you're asking questions totally and the the other thing I think about and join me on this uh slight tangent let's do it to get there but do you play Mahjong is this a thing I don't okay it's like taken it's taken where you're at by storm it's taken like our our level of career and I I feel like you're, you live in the North side suburbs.

13:18Cass: I feel like that's like everywhere. I took one lesson. So I'm an expert now. I actually took one lesson with some girlfriends and I was like kind of wanting to hate it because it's so trendy. And I was like, oh, I get, I get it. I get why it's so popular. But like a frame that I think about that I like with the strategy of it is like keeping your options as open as possible before you kind of like narrow in and decide. and I feel like that that's the other thing I think about with your career arc is like you've done a great job of like keeping options open and not being so like limiting of like it must be this path and that flexibility has led you to in your words like fall upwards over and over again but like without having that flexible mindset I think it's really easy for people to get lost or devastated that like they didn't achieve this one one path that they had in mind exactly and I think yeah I definitely interviewed for jobs that I really wanted and didn't get and that always leads to something else like yeah RiverSpan again also kind of came to me John our our co-founder was literally just networking with Harvard undergrads in the area and cold called me he was literally just outreaching the network and again if someone gets out to me I always respond back because I have been helped infinitely and by others and through my career and I basically just like gave him a bunch of my friends who have done in industrials private equity because I hadn't had not had any experiences within industrials and he they were like wow you're pretty helpful yeah and then I basically gave them like three months of like just free thought on like I've reviewed their pitch decks I like gave them some marketing ideas of what I thought it would be like what like what a bd program looks like with systems and integration and they were like oh wow and again like that's kind of like the pitching your skill set yeah I didn't even know I was doing it you're like this comes so second nature to me I'm just trying to be helpful this seems very basic and you're like and they're like oh my goodness tell me more and again like I didn't know what I was doing I like yeah story of my life I just kind of you know was just talking and giving and like yeah and it has now returned like tenfold to oh yeah to my life and my experience so like also good on you I feel like a lot of people also can be very guarded about those things like oh here let me just send you an article or Or like, I'm not going to like actually spend the time or like, I don't want to tell you my secrets.

15:38Cass: Yes, I see that a lot. Yeah. And I think I tend to follow more of that like abundance mindset of like we can all share and give and benefit from it. And like, yes. And I also come to like the train of thought that like, I don't think what I'm doing is like extraordinarily or like proprietary. Like I work hard at it. So like I think if I share kind of, you know, my process methodology, I don't think it's going to disadvantage me in the competitive market. Like I think like what I do is like more innate and like but so I don't have like any problem sharing, again, non-proprietary thinking or process or systems or whatnot.

16:13Because, again, I think it's about how you do it every day. Right. And that's something you can't necessarily talk about.

16:20Cass: That's the basketball athlete mindset right there. Okay, we're going to get into a little bit of, you know, our indication of interest segment. I love that. To get to know you a little bit more before we go more into your career. So what is your go-to comfort show? I am a big sitcom fan. So I go back and forth between Parks and Rec and The Office. Yes. And I think I've seen both shows through at least four to five times. Yeah. So I like him a lot. And I was Leslie Knope once for Halloween. So that's amazing. I love her podcast. I like aspire to just like. I've never missed. I've never missed one within like two days of it being released.

17:06Cass: I just started Mindy Kaling, the Mindy Kaling episode this morning. It's good. I finished it. Just trying to just trying to get those. She is an incredible interviewer as well. And I've always loved her. Like I've read her books, like watch all of her shows. I saw her and Tina Fey were on tour. Or like I'm like a big fan of women in comedy as well. Maybe I just like women who are in male dominated industries. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. I love Parks and Rec. I that's worth a rewatch for me. I've had to cut back on my true crime since becoming a mother. So I lean very heavily into feel good, feel good comedies.

17:35Cass: I like that. And what's something that you can cook without looking at a recipe? I love comfort things. So lasagna is my first one. I'm also married into an Italian family. So I feel like that one's I do it more regularly now. Yes. And then I love a soup in the winter. So just like a classic chicken noodle. I have a friend group that does a Super Bowl every year. It's the week and after the Super Bowl, the football Super Bowl. And I do not cook soup, but they are very into soup, obviously, to have a Super Bowl. If you need a guest chef, let me know. I do love soups. I may need a guest chef. My husband always participates.

18:19Cass: But he has such a polarizing personality that I think like people love to see him lose. I don't want to. I think you just need to be the spokesperson for the soup now. I know. I need to just say like, it's my soup that I'm submitting. Yeah. And see if we win. There you go. Like last year he like bought like a foam, like a foamer. I don't know what it's actually called, but like he made a foam soup. Like he put a lot of money and effort into. He's like, I have to win. I made foam. Like I made a foam soup. like a michelin star i've never heard of foam soup so maybe this year will be his year this could be next year technically i think they'll know that it's him though because i feel like at this point we need to get our money's worth of this foamer things like it will just be foams there you go i'm sure alina can help you with some some foam some foam components i know okay and then last question in this section what's your perfect saturday it will involve waking up been going and getting a workout by myself yes by myself love it uh and then what kind of workout um I am currently not always been I'm into like the hot yoga or workout so there's a place out in Glenallen called drip yeah yoga so I I like the ones that are more like weight focused but it's just like it's it's so tough it kind of like take it takes me back to like my athlete like I feel like I'm competing against myself like very strangely competitive in a workout class um but it's always there's always that person you're just like yeah and nowadays i get like one day to work out so it's like usually like if i'm doing it i'm like i've got to get my money full commit um so yes just join just in by myself um and then doing something with my kids whether that's like going to the park or like i would love to go to a cubs game something outdoors biking anything like that and then probably i also we love taking our kids out to dinner like we're like our kids are very used to being out in restaurants i remember you saying this going out uh usually have all the the we we try not to do you know screens so we have all the activity books and the things and that and things are scattered everywhere bagging yeah um but yeah love going out to eat as much as possible and then we just got one of those outdoor projectors for the house oh i love that so movie night outside but again if it's a little bit get a get kids to like maybe half a movie in because right they got to go to bed yes and then just lounging on the couch with my husband watching something eating ice cream yes that would be lovely yes I eat ice cream a little bit too much a little bit too much if it's in the if it's in the freezer it's gonna be eaten my sister was in town this past weekend and we literally door dashed like three or four different kinds of ice cream to our house yes yeah amazing um okay so ice cream aside let's go back into your career okay as we kind of talked about you had the this roundabout route into it but what originally kind of drew you into private equity yeah like I mentioned the like recruiter who found me and I remember I got you know the job description I was like okay like this doesn't feel too far off from what I was doing and at my prior firm like just again I just started kept talking about the role and what it was and it's truly like a quarterback role and that's like where I really thrive within team environments and again that is kind of what the private equity thing is um i also like it because at ge like obviously very quota driven which i did like competitiveness but like also it private equity gives you more room for thought and strategy and like again building long-term relationships so i really like that aspect of it if it's not like you know a six-month sales cycles it's like you are really developing long-term relationships it could be could be yes you're calling them five years from now yes yeah with intermediaries you're talking to maybe monthly basis, maybe once or twice a year to like doing some direct outreach to executives, you know, understanding all your lenders, like consultants, like there's, there's so many different kinds of relationships that I really like the excitement of it or like the intrigue of like learning all these different kinds of relationships.

22:22And then, like I said, like really flexing the skill set of tech was really fun for me in my early days, like building the processes, increasing the like utility of our CRM, building the reporting of it was just something that I always worked within, but never got to like improve at my prior firms. And like, I just, I just love working within a team. So kind of doing all those things. And then, like I said, I was only two years into healthcare when I joined my prior firm and just like learning, learning, like just nonstop learning. And I just like, I've just always loved that environment. Just always growing.

22:55Cass: Yeah. I love that. And as with your like role, when you kind of moved into of private equity as we think about like and you get calls what is what what are you doing what it was that job description it sounds like I mean there people don't think about how much of a relationship game private equity is sometimes I think they think about like the deals and the financial modeling and like all of the more execution heavy and like tactical and like legal docs and those types of things but like there are so many different groups that you can own and have a relationship with and how crucial that is to actually getting the modeling done and the deal done and everything inked.

23:37So do you want to talk a little bit about like what that would mean? Yeah. So I think of my jobs in a few different, you know, channels. So relationship management, that's many stakeholders talked about intermediaries, you know, bankers, executives, lenders, consultants, all that. So managing relationships, building process around it, outreach metrics, success of that outreach, deal origination. That's the main one. Sourcing all the deals we do, some proprietary work. It's not our main strategy, but there is always some proprietary nature of deal origination. So doing a lot of that as well. A little bit of additional marketing and RiverSpan brand and going to market was a big thing for us since we were a first time fund.

24:16So just getting our name out there, creating a little bit of a brand. And then the final thing is literally tying it all together with process methodology and technology i spent so much of my time just like reworking processes reworking reports and and kind of making it all super seamless to the team yes but i think like the overlay of process and technology totally

24:38Cass: everything yes because you could have like a million conversations kiss a ton of frogs whatever you want to call it yeah and network your tail off but this is a long game and you may not remember that person or that industry that connection that you had three years from now when you really need it if you don't have processes in place to like actually record it actually put it down somewhere so you know to call that person yeah and I think being at reverse band has really challenged me with the reporting function as well yeah because again you just we just need to be more actionable we need to be more concise with our information since we are a leaner team yeah so that's really challenged me in a good way to like really think way more higher level and strategic I said I used be like oh I'm meeting my dials or my calls and now I'm like we're ranking our relationships we need to be talking to these three people at that bank the most because these are the deals that we saw and it's just way more of a strategic mindset yeah you can't you can't do everything so what are you going to prioritize yes exactly and there's a million networking events and conferences to go to and it's it's all about figuring out what is best for our strategy yeah I love that um okay who in your career has shaped you the most and you could take this earlier in your career you could take this like where wherever you want um and how yeah it's so interesting since I have such a unique jumping of careers I've never had like one consistent person through line um one thing that I think about like again just so privileged and lucky to have attended Harvard and not only Harvard the Harvard Women's Basketball Network is incredible so when I was in college not only having representation but having direct access to these excuse my french badass women yeah like really just raised my bar for what or i guess like shattered any ceiling that i had because yeah so like i think about layla sturdy who was one of the you know founding members of google uh google capital i remember i literally called her from the starbucks around this corner as a very confused junior once and being like hi i just i'm i don't know what i'm doing i have a psychology major and she literally was like let's talk about what you want to do and like she helped me through that And like looking, like looking at her now, I'm like, that's crazy.

26:45That's crazy.

26:45Cass: I had that phone call. And then another one is like Maura Healy, the governor of Massachusetts. She was always on campus. Like, and I was, remember I was literally in Santa Monica. I used to live in California walking near the promenade and I saw her and I was like, Maura. And literally her security guard jumped in between me and her. And I was like, so spooked. Like, and I was like, I was like, broken berry 2012. And she was just like, Oh yeah, of course. And she like waved her security guard off. But I got to like hug her and think, how are you? And she was there. And like, that's the kind of access of like women that I got to experience.

27:20So like, and again, I could 10 more of those. And that's just like infinitely lucky, incredible, blessed to be able to have access to that. And within a very trusted community. And then finally, we've, you know, the common thread is athlete. And my dad was my basketball coach, like everything growing up. And he actually passed away about 10 years ago this month. and like but what he taught me about teamwork dedication sacrifice like truly working hard and dedicating yourself towards something and honestly that very competitive nature has done nothing but serve me and in my career moving forward so it's again as you can say I'm very lucky and fortunate to have had so many different resources to help you know shape my career yeah

28:04Cass: that's amazing um okay what is something that you figured out recently that you wish someone had told you sooner or you wish you knew sooner? Literally so many things. But I think the thing that I've been more leaning into is like, you rarely want to be the smartest person in a room. Yeah. So when I first joined private equity, oh my God, I asked so many dumb questions, like questions that literally keep me up at night being like, I'm so embarrassed that I asked this out loud. Yeah. Can I just put those back in my mouth? Oh my God. Like I look like my heart's starting to palpitate just thinking about one in particular and I will never say it out loud.

28:40but that was honestly with with that like be like you get a lot of knowledge and you also build your confidence yeah to to learn a lot and I have been super fortunate to be in a lot of rooms with super intelligent intelligent people and very intelligent and generous people yeah and with that like I have also I think grown exponentially and in my own intellect and in my own professionalism because of that and so again it's all about growth mindset it's all about growing so like if you find yourself to be the smartest person in a room you need to find another room except when you're giving back

29:14Cass: yes i do mentorship doesn't include that's why i said rarely because you definitely you need to share your findings yeah share your findings yeah but if you definitely need to be always seeking to have places to learn which i actually think not to like throw shade on our industry i I feel like private equity gets a reputation for like people wanting to be the smartest person in the room. Yes. But when you are in a room with a founder, with somebody who's running a business, like you don't know their business like they know their business. And like coming at that conversation with the humility of like, you know more than I do.

29:52Cass: I would love to learn from you about it. I think helps a lot in jumpstarting that relationship. Like listening first. Always listen first. Yeah. What are you excited or most interested right now about in the industry? Yeah, I think twofold for at least my firm, like I mentioned, first time fund. I just have always aligned with John and Dave about major organizational philosophies, which is very rare. Yeah. So that's just like we have a great first couple investments and I'm just super excited to see where the firm goes. Like genuinely excited. I never thought I could say I love my job. I just thought you work.

30:30Cass: Yeah. That's what it is. But like I genuinely love my job and the people that I work with. And then second, within industrials specifically, I don't know a better word for it, but it's called the silver tsunami. Okay. So essentially it's founders for a second, third generation that are aging out of their ownership of their business. Okay. So I've heard that term a lot and that's just what I've been saying. It feels a little bit insulting. Yeah. But essentially. But like it's a tsunami. Yeah. there is there are there's a I wish I pulled a statistic for it but like there's so many aging owners that are need of alternate ownership yeah because they're not going to have you know a family member to pass on their business yeah so I know that we're excited to find those it's not a mandate that we have privately held companies but we do think it works best our strategy so like finding those people who have built really great businesses and trying and then you know hopefully we can be stewards of their business you know continuing the value continuing the quality for not only their customers but also for their employees because those are their family members to these these founder-owned businesses and I'm a an example of this so my father took over a towing and body shop business from my grandfather and my when I remember growing up like we were never felt like we had to take over the business we had literally no interest in body shop and towing I couldn't you didn't I literally couldn't be further from it I looped back to industrials but I was the furthest away from it as humanly possible I don't even like know anything about a car couldn't pop up when I have car I suffer from car blindness like I I people say like a brand or I can tell you the color of the car we got a new car this week and I literally just used Claude to like research the characteristics I needed and then I told my husband I go I trust you you just go buy that car you go you you go do it you do it i don't i don't want to be i can tell you if it's an suv or a car i cannot differentiate between brands i cannot i have no idea i have no idea yeah so i was a prime example of of of a family that need to find an alternate yeah ownership strategy so i think that's just a really can be exciting for investors who you know are in the right place to do that yeah but can also obviously be a little bit scary for the people who again have all these businesses and they want and again they're often less sexy so they're typically not going to be attracting again the family or or shiny investors so i think we're in a great place to to help a lot of those businesses yeah that is that there's just a lot in general about like the boomer generation handing things off and like aging out of things but i had never thought about that in the context of industrials but that makes a ton of yeah silver tsunami i learned a new term too um and then what's a commonly held belief about private equity that you disagree with yeah i think there's unfortunately a lot out there um i'll look through it through the lens of a working mother and that private equity is not a place for working mothers and i i think that is completely untrue and yeah women are actively being pushed out at that early age because they're being told it's not a good place to have a family yeah and you're like that's not even you're like i'm here I promise.

33:38Cass: Yes. I promise. Hey, we can do it. So I think like, is there certain requirements to make this happen? Absolutely. I think I've never been a woman who believes that you can have it all. I do believe that you can align your priorities and have your top three, four, five. Yeah. But to do that, I think you need to one, have alignment with your management. If you guys are not aligned, it's not going to work. No. And then second, you need to have a support system outside of that yes of that of those four was four walls of the office and mine starts with my husband incredibly supportive husband um co-parent we split everything pretty evenly not a babysitter not a babysitter he can handle it on all on his own yeah uh and and very well i may add and then just like the women's network in general within finance is one of the best networks i've ever been a part of yeah um i'm again i've also been inspired by that i'm sitting across from a mother who's doing it all, who inspires me to do it.

34:33I know I ask so many questions. We have women's lunches that you help put together. We have WhatsApp groups where it goes from like, hey, how do you feed your kids healthy food during the week? Or like, hey, can you share your nanny questions with me? To like, hey, what is your vesting structure look like? Hey, can you help me find a recruiter for this specific industry? It ping pongs back and forth every other question. I think one of them right now is like, what's your book recommendation? So like book recommendations was a very hot topic last night my phone was blowing up and so like that's just like and again like i'm constantly talking to the women like how do you do it how do you do it where do you go yeah and like those are the two things that are necessary but it is a very um rewarding experience when you can do this right so private equity is for women with some caveats and advocacy and alignment from management and a lot a lot of support yes i have two reactions to that i actually

35:28Cass: haven't thought about this in a long time my dad wanted me to be a lawyer for some like he just passed that down to all of his children I'm like the first one didn't want to do it the second one didn't want to do it he was like Cass you're my last chance like I I think you do great in law school I'm like I think you're just saying this now because you want somebody to go but but I remember being like 20 and explaining to him like well that's like three more years of school after this as if I didn't go to business school and that was another two years but like yeah at the time when I was 20 like doing like backwards math of like I have to pay for three more years of school and then I have to meet somebody and then I have to like have a career for a while and then I'm gonna have kids and then like that doesn't even make sense like where's the R and like when I was 20 I had some kind of messaging that was like that ROI isn't worth it now realistically I would make a horrible lawyer so like it was still the right choice for me but like uh that is somewhere ingrained in you and I like love our group because I do think that it is very helpful to see other people going through it yeah and I do remember you had your second before I had my second and I remember we were at something and you were just so honest about the experience in terms of like you're just like a straight shooter so you were just like yeah like it's hard it was like really hard to have like it it was hard but we did it and because I remember thinking like what other help do I need do I need a night nurse do I need this do I need that and you're like I just just do it just yeah it's tough it's tough it's tough yeah but like I remember like the feeling of like yes it's tough just do it that you had around it and I thought about that during my like second maternity leave probably once a week i was like well brogan said like i just like referred to that of like yeah like she did it she did it she's doing it i can do it and i think like those little things just like add up and do give you so much momentum of like i remember we were on a bus at a women's event yeah i think we were going to something yes i think we were going to yoga yeah and i feel like i've also had a bunch of people tell me the same thing yeah and so it's like oh it's good to have like yeah it's good to have unfiltered conversations about motherhood because that's also something that sometimes we're shaded from and it's like no we gotta i always like people i'm like i am i am no thing is too much information for me if you need to text me about anything yeah i will listen to your birth story i'm your girl the whole thing i love a birth story yeah i'll listen like it's part of life we should be able to talk about it yes freely and then how it affects your work.

38:08Like I had one much junior colleague asked me, like when I was pregnant, my firm was like, oh, what's it like? And I was like, it's like starting every day at 70%. Oh yeah.

38:18Cass: No matter how. That's general. Yeah, exactly. And that's starting the day. That's when I wake up. Yeah. I'm like, it's starting every day at 70%. So like think about how that must feel like as you're going to work, and you need to be giving in some days 120 % and you can only give 70. And so like that's just constantly what it feels like to be like, let's just say a pregnant yes woman at work uh in the fourth trimester at work yeah and so like obviously now i feel like i'm out of that phase yeah um you're getting more sleep it's great yeah but i was like someone's like i was like i feel like i'm finally out of it my son's almost three my younger of the two yep so it can take years yes to finally feel out of it and now we're like do we have the third and i'm like oh gosh so we're in the no decisions this year yeah but it will be a conversation again like do we do we want to do it again yeah I know we don't know I know figure it out though but we always figure it out totally okay um what did 10 year old you want to be when you grew up I think I know the answer to this just based on earlier things but maybe not this one might surprise you okay so I how far off were you I'm pretty far off yeah um I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom oh yes so like I I joked going to college like I don't know what I want to be like was your mom a stay-at-home mom yeah so i would i grew up in a household that was very privileged and lucky to have a stay-at-home mother you're like i want to do that that's like that looks awesome yeah stay at home drop your kids off at school like that was kind of what i thrived to do even when i went to college and and i think even in my early career i was like oh maybe i could still do it and then kind of like once i just kept growing and you know building conviction and and so i am very off now like are there some days where i'm just like oh it would be so nice to be a stay-at-home mom, not that that's easier, any way, shape, or form.

39:57I think it is the most thankless, unappreciated job in this modern society. But I think looking back when I'm older and I look back at my career, I think I'll be really proud of myself for investing, not only in my family, but also myself as well.

40:15Cass: Yes, totally. Okay. Last question in the career section what is something that you would tell a younger version of yourself 10 years ago or maybe somebody who's sitting where you were sitting about 10 years ago in your career I feel like I almost touched on a little bit earlier with just like picking up skills yeah like you just tools in the toolkit and tools and and advocating and learning how to sell your supply I think like that has definitely been something that I've picked up and like again like a job is never forever doesn't have to be but you can learn a lot you can learn from people you can learn from the experience and so it's just like again you're like you always feel like you have to take a path like throw that thinking right out the window and just like as opportunities come up evaluate that opportunity if it's good for you lean into it if it's not pull back find the next one and so like just never letting yourself kind of feel too stressed out about the path that you're not on because I feel like you can read so many stories about like this you know CEO founded this business because of something she lost her job or like I think a lot of people talk about like you only learn from failure you don't learn from successes and I think that's that's a true thing as well with your career like fail a little bit yeah I do like that theme of just kind of like keeping things open tools in the toolkit like just keep adding to your skill set and I also think that's what scares me a little bit about like I feel like maybe it's it was maybe more in vogue five years ago than it is even now but PE firms creating like analyst programs where they take people straight from school I would kind of advise people in college who were like oh I had this opportunity I'm like you could totally take that but like there is something great to being in a much bigger firm and having a big training ground no offense to private equity I don't think we're the best place to get necessarily like yes you get a little bit of like you're under fire or like whatever you can figure things out there's like some urgency in a deal and you'll learn something for sure but to get those like skills and toolkits I do think like corporate America investment banking programs like big four firms consulting firms all these bigger like places do make a lot of sense something entrepreneurial does make a lot of sense but um that's what scares me a little bit about being like oh I found the dream thing I've like I can get into private equity as an analyst straight out of school it's like you can but but yeah you need to adjust yeah there's other there's other avenues that can get you to the same place in five ten years that might be more advantageous actually in terms of like just giving you one breath or if you're going for the analyst program you don't get it like not being devastated by it like thinking of it as a opportunity to go learn something when when you do come back you are that much more skilled and confident and no way more because it's so funny when we're talking to kids undergrad and it's like they're way more prepared so much more prepared like way further than i was at that point in my career yeah but like when you do the questions they ask things like you just know that they have no idea and you're like i want to help you and tell you everything that you can so then like you're also just you're protecting yourself yeah from like thinking you want to go here because of that and like i said figure it out you all will just once a better time learn grow don't be too stringent with yourself.

43:34Yes.

43:35Cass: Amazing. Okay. We made it to the fun part, the closing call, the fun part, the fun part.

43:43Cass: What's the best book you've read in the past year? Literally just finished having it all, which is very ironic. Yes. And it's by Corinne Lowe, who's a PhD economic or economist. And it's all about, as you can imagine, the societal, cultural, biological differences, and oftentimes disadvantage to being a working mom. Yeah. And I just loved it because I are I feel it yeah I feel crazy sometimes and I feel pulled and this and then like oh there's facts and real data to show that these are these are true yeah and these are happening this isn't just happening in my head yes exactly so I love I love being proven right with real data and science um so it's always just kind of good to like check in with yourself read something that's like putting your life in perspective and just like be like okay yeah there are some things that are maybe not going my way but like there are other ways to pivot and make it okay and like in finding that and and again it's just a really good book and like um i just like women who have data-driven backgrounds who write books that are applicable to our lives oh yeah like emily oyster oster yes um with like pregnancy another incredible one i subscribe to her her newsletter love her um so just like love all of the daydream stuff that just helps you make the best decision for yourself and your family.

45:01Cass: She's generally just like calm down. Here's the data. Everybody calm down. I love that. I quoted her a lot during my pregnancies especially like at business meetings. Yes. When people were like oh you're having a glass of wine and I'll be like actually the data is actually showing that you are allowed to have that. Let me point you to page 53. Or as a woman you're allowed to have up to 200 whatever milligrams of caffeine safely before and so. I did get a lot of things like that. Of strange looks with caffeine for sure. Yeah. And you're like don't worry I've done my research. is that decaf i'm like you're like i need it all i need it all no i need it all within a healthy reasonable range and i am within that range i promise you that yes yes um what is your go-to karaoke song oh yeah i've got one yeah um it's depending on the audience uh baby got back uh and then i've been doing a lot of children karaoke uh so love you've been doing a lot of Children karaoke?

45:53Cass: Just like with the fam. Like at kid parties? Like at the home. Oh, in the home. And then I do a whole new world. Yes. Or I was saying I actually was at a work function and I was bonding with a dad and we had kids around the same age and so we sang it together. A whole new world? A little pitchy. Yeah. That's okay. But it was really fun. I sang karaoke with my older daughter on vacation and we did Shake It Off. Oh, that's a great one. And I guess I'll embarrass my husband. we can do um love is an open door by frozen together yes a duo i like it duet duet yeah i forced him to like learn it once so we do it every once in a while for our kids forced him to learn it once yeah he was like i don't know it and then he grabs a microphone yeah i don't know any of these words here they all are um and then if you weren't in private equity what do you think you'd be doing instead i feel like i could be doing a million other things because i have i feel like my career really could have veered off at any point but I think if I look back at like oh if I know what I know now if I'm in high school or college I think I would definitely go into sports yeah um I think you know most likely like youth and or like I really would love to be part of women's sports now like it is just growing a great time to be part of women's exponential rate like whether it's softball women's softball women's soccer and their contract negotiations I I was on the edge of my seat, WNBA.

47:12Like there's, it's like, it's so incredible. I got, I saw the Chicago stars play at Wrigley last year, two years ago. I was there. Yeah.

47:20Cass: Two years ago. Two years ago. Yeah. And like, we go to as many sky games as we can. I think it sold out. Oh yeah. They did say that. Yeah. Yeah. Really fun game. Really fun night. We go to Chicago sky games. The, the owner of the sky is a Harvard guy. So I've seen him kind of randomly at a couple of Harvard events. Um, I still have a teammate playing in WNBA from Harvard. That's awesome. um and so like i just like i it it feels the soul like you know when i play in college we had no one in the stands like we get a few few of our buddies or yeah things like that you know and it's just it's so great to see like i go back to the games now and just like stands are way more filled there's so much excitement especially with like young young females and even young males who are like my nephews what is the 11 in ohio and like he has a caitlin clark jersey like i've never like Like I've never seen boys or like it's, there's a couple alumni here in Chicago and they have, you know, three kids.

48:13And she's like, my, my son recently was like, oh, can boys play basketball?

48:16Cass: Because like they were just so used to like seeing women's basketball. And I'm like, I know women play basketball, but can boys. And, and that's like where I love, again, like there's still a lot of areas of growth and where we can do better and be better. But I just like, I love to see it. um just again just getting i don't ever want to be like quote unquote the same as men but i just wanted to get the respect that it deserves and like every female athlete is still putting in the exact same time and energy as every other male athlete um we just don't get the rewards of you know audience so probably something to do with with sports in some ways particularly women's and or youth just again like building the the next generation i love that awesome well this was a joy like thank you you were amazing I could talk to you all day I know I guess we have to get back to our actual jobs now we have to get back to our actual jobs but I loved having you on yeah thank you so much for for thinking of me this is yeah like I mentioned I was not used to doing this talking to a microphone but uh like I said I I know you I trust you and I knew it was going to be a really fun time awesome yeah all right thanks guys yeah till next time

49:28Thank you.