Parker Gals | Private Equity Isn't Just for "PE Guys" (w/Caroline Carman, Rallyday Partners)

0:00Liz Xu: Who on Friends are you? I think I am Monica because I'm really type A. If you're a Monica, you are bound for private equity associate life. There you go. There you go.

0:10Caroline Carman: That's how you know. That's how you know. Yeah, that's how you know.

0:25Caroline Carman: Hi, everyone. I'm Liz Hsu. I'm one of your co-hosts of Parker Gales, the segment of the Parker Gale PE Funcast, where we introduce our favorite friends, women in private equity, and hear about their stories. So today I'm so excited to be sitting down with my friend, Caroline Carmen.

0:45Liz Xu: Thanks so much for having me, Liz. Super excited to be on the podcast and you and I have worked together a bunch and so it's kind of now fun to be in two different places, but have this bring us back together. So super excited to be here. Yeah.

0:58Caroline Carman: Caroline and I worked together at JPMorgan as analysts back in the day, you know, living it up on floor nine in the Chase Tower, downtown Chicago. But yeah, so I'm so excited to kind of hear your story today and see how you've gotten to where you are. And obviously, we're both in kind of parallel journeys and roles. So it would just be awesome to take this chance to kind of trade notes and hear your story. So yeah, looking forward to it. I can't wait. Thanks so much for having me. Great. So to kind of kick things off, can you just, let's just get to know you for a second. Who are you? Where do you work?

1:35Liz Xu: And physically, where are you? Yes, I am currently in Denver, Colorado, which is the headquarters of Rally Day Partners, which is the private equity firm I work for. It's a founder-led lower middle market firm. And we are really interested in investing kind of like across the spectrum between healthcare services, professional services, and tech services. That's kind of our focus. We finished investing in our second fund, and it's been a really, really exciting journey seeing the firm grow. And having been here for three and a half years, I've been here since the first investment in fund two all the way to where we are now, which is currently deploying out of our fund three.

2:16Liz Xu: So it feels super exciting to have been on this trajectory with a younger firm. I would say generally, too, we're really people, culture, purpose focused. And so we're typically investing in really, really intensely people-centric businesses, which makes sense with all of the services investing that we do. And so I've gotten to see a lot of that market and really enjoy it. And like you said, I'm a senior associate on the team. So my role is kind of looking at different investment VCCs. I don't know if that's a word. and looking at different opportunities for add-on investments, platform investments, doing a bunch of portfolio management, and working closely with management teams, which I would say is my favorite part of the job, really getting to know and work with incredible executives across our portfolio.

3:06Liz Xu: That's awesome. And you were their first associate, right? I was, yes. Good memory. So the firm had kind of was built by founders, individuals who had like grown and built their own businesses, had handled private equity ownership and then had exited. And they kind of thought back and said, you know, this whole private equity ownership situation could have worked differently or could have worked better for the firm and for me and my management team. And so they bound together here in Denver and said, how can we make a private equity firm that looks and feels a lot different than what's currently in the market?

3:40Liz Xu: it. So it was the group of them. They hired on a director, a VP. It was a really small team. And then they kind of said, OK, if we want to get rocking and rolling and really deploying capital and raising capital, we need to build out more of the junior team. And so I got connected to Patrick McConville, who is a partner at the firm, and he leads our investment team. And he reached out to me over LinkedIn. I remember I was in my cube on floor nine at JP Morgan. And he said, Hey, you know, I heard you from Denver, maybe looking for an opportunity to come back and work in private equity. You want to talk on the phone?

4:14Liz Xu: And it kind of happened from there. So I was the first associate. We now have two more associates on the team. So it's a group of three of us.

4:21Caroline Carman: So a lot of building. Yeah, that's amazing. And my co-host Cass was the first associate here at Parker Gale. And I believe she mentioned that like we, the partners here actually did a few deals or maybe one, maybe two, I don't remember without an associate. And I was like, I don't even know how that would happen. And she was like, yeah, that's, that's how they, they plucked her out of the, out of the weeds. Um, but great. So our next section is again, just to kind of continue to get to know you, the indication of interests, the IOI. Yes. This is our rapid fire segment where we're just going to blow through three of these questions and see a little bit more of inside of you know who is Caroline so all right first one what is your

5:10Liz Xu: go-to comfort show my go-to comfort show is friends and this has always been my answer and I think it might always be my answer I can't imagine anything better than friends and I think I used to watch it when I was younger and it feels most applicable right now in like this phase of my life and it's like it's balancing work and it's balancing time with friends and it's balancing relationships and family time and it's hard a lot of the time um and you're making sacrifices and having to choose and I just kind of see them I'll I'll go through it every day and a bunch of the shows unrealistic like having coffee with your friends at 10 a.m breakfast every morning I know

5:54Caroline Carman: I've been re-watching the show and I've been like playing this game of like what day of the week is it in any given episode. You have no idea because they're just hanging out having bagels at a mysterious time of morning. Yep. Okay.

6:08Liz Xu: So who on Friends are you? I am Monica and I could see that. It's like so identical. I think I am Monica because I'm really type A. I like things in a very specific place. I like to do things in a specific like method. I always love being the host, which is also what like Monica says throughout the whole show, like she is the hostess. I love like having a place where like all of my friends and family like to come to and I like to bring people together and to gather. And I love when people get to do that in my space. So I love that. That totally checks out. Yeah, you are probably the most organized analyst

6:51Caroline Carman: floor nine had ever seen thank you it was very intimidating I was like I don't even aspire to that that's just not reasonable yeah I almost took it too far like I really do no what would you say your friends oh yeah honestly I also say Monica even though I don't share the same type of organizational skills that she has and you have but I do think like she's a little bit like she really wants people around her to be to feel comfortable she wants to take care of people and she's also kind of insecure and I feel like that's deeply relatable um in many ways but she like really wants to do a good job on just being a good friend a good sister a good host so I feel like Monica but if you're a Monica you are bound for private equity associate life there you go there you go that's how you know that's how you know that's how you know all right number two

7:48Liz Xu: What is something you could cook without a recipe? I laughed at this question. And I think you probably know this about me, Liz. The answer is truly nothing. Like that is just the honest answer. It's because you're too busy at work. Don't have time. I thought I could. I like started writing down like a box of mac and cheese. And then I thought through it. And I was like, no, you're reading the box. I actually don't know. I'm reading the box. And if I throw the box away on accident, I do have to dig it back out. And so the answer is really nothing. I am very grateful that I have a partner and he loves to cook and he's really phenomenal at it.

8:29Liz Xu: So the tradeoff is I go to the store, I do the dishes and he does the cooking. And it is an exceptional tradeoff.

8:36Caroline Carman: Good. OK. Yeah. It works well. That's great. What is what is some what's your favorite dish that your partner makes? Oh, that's a really good question.

8:44Liz Xu: He loves Mediterranean food. So something Mediterranean. He's made before these like lamb pita pockets within like a tzatziki sauce and like a Greek salad. Ten out of ten. Really delicious. That meal took a really long time to make. And he like put his like heart and soul into it. And it turned out phenomenal.

9:04Caroline Carman: Are you ever like there's too many dishes?

9:07Liz Xu: Like what happened in this kitchen?

9:08Caroline Carman: That's generally what I am feeling when my partner tries to cook.

9:12Liz Xu: and he doesn't like clean up while other things are like yes cooked like I don't understand that leaves it all for the end but I just so can't complain or else I would like go hungry um so I'm I'm really okay with it I wish I liked to cook I think it's it sounds lame when you're like I don't like to cook but I just I really don't I don't think I ever will that's totally Fair. That's okay.

9:38Caroline Carman: You don't need to. I've come to terms with it. All right. And the last one in this section, what does your perfect Saturday look like?

9:46Liz Xu: So my perfect Saturday would be sleeping in a little bit and then going and getting like a coffee or a tea at a local spot and then going and playing pickleball, which I have been playing a lot of. I think it's so much fun. It's like a really social activity and sport. Do you play any other racket sports? I played tennis in high school and I loved that.

10:10Caroline Carman: Unfair advantage. Yeah.

10:11Liz Xu: So that has definitely helped. But all of my friends have gotten surprisingly really good at pickleball. And we kind of like do a little rotation tournament and it works out pretty well. We're all like a really similar skill level. So that's really fun. And then after we play pickleball, we usually go to lunch and like sit outside and enjoy some outside time and a little bit of lunch. and then at night back to the monica thing i'd probably have friends over for like a game night i love um having a game night i don't need to like watch sports with friends or like that's not my bonding i really want to like have conversations with my friends and i think like playing games is a really good way to do that and you learn a lot about people and you like talk to each other so i usually competitive though i feel like i am it can turn nasty really quick if you're not it can turn nasty really quick i am very competitive and it depends on the game but i really really really don't like to lose um and so sometimes that another trait of somebody who ends up in private equity yes yes totally well there's that that one like friends clip they're playing pictionary and monica like freaked out i love that and so yeah that also kind of plays into it um but yeah that's probably how i would spend my saturday outside time hanging with friends, good company, good food.

11:34Liz Xu: That would be perfect. Love it. Very, very Colorado. Very Colorado.

11:38Caroline Carman: Yeah, definitely. Okay, great. So would love to take a minute and talk about your career so far. I'm curious, how did you get drawn to private equity in the first place?

11:51Liz Xu: Yeah, I think my first job out of school was with you in Chicago on the J.P. Morgan leverage finance team. And I think that I really enjoyed that work. It was super interesting. I feel like we learned a ton, but it felt a little siloed over here in just being like a product team working with the like debt financing products. And I was always so interested in like, what's the M &A team doing? Like, what like skills are they learning? And I feel like they were so much more strategic versus we were kind of just like the product team that was helping them, like finalize the transaction and so that's kind of when I learned I kind of want to to get into this like true M &A side of the business and so I was thinking about that the other thing too that our job was kind of interesting I feel like it was kind of like a three-month sprint with management teams and you got to know these people you got them to the other side and then you didn't really have this like ongoing relationship with them other than like a check-in here or there And so part of me was like, I really want to know management teams on a deep level.

12:58Liz Xu: I want to see how they think. I want to see how they're strategizing and how they're putting an executive team together and what products and services they're building, how they're going to market with those products and services. And I feel like it was, we kind of had the surface level and there was like so much down below that I wasn't learning. And I was so interested in that. So what really drew me to private equity was honestly the people. And I just wanted to work with founders who had started something from zero, from absolute scratch. And they had built it into this amazing company. And they have 100 employees now who work from them and get so much value and purpose out of the work they do.

13:33Liz Xu: So the people really drew me to it. And as well as just learning more about the business and the strategy and how we're going to market and how we're treating our people. and just learning more of those dynamics and having kind of like a 360 view on the business.

13:51Caroline Carman: No, that totally makes sense. And I think I had a lot of those same feelings and reactions and that's kind of how I got drawn into this side of the table as well. Remind me, what did you study in undergrad? Because you went to the business school at IU.

14:05Liz Xu: Yes, yes. So I was accounting and finance. So just kind of all about like the numbers. Right.

14:13Caroline Carman: So when you were in school, did you have an inkling that like you might want to end up in investing someday? How did that come together?

14:22Liz Xu: Potentially. And so I did a five-year program at IU and it was like three years of undergrad, two years of MBA. And so you graduated after five years with both degrees. And the best class I ever took was an entrepreneurship class in my fifth year. And the whole class was kind of like a shark tank simulation kind of. and you would hear and listen to people's pitches of their business, their ideas. And then you would kind of make a decision of like, hey, what would you invest? How much? Why? And I really loved that class. And I was like, is this like a real job? Like, what is this? You can just be this person, this investor who gets to make these decisions.

15:03Liz Xu: So that's probably when the light bulb went off of like, I really love hearing people's stories. I really love learning about the business that they founded and why they founded it and why it's like kind of their baby and their whole life. And so I always kind of go back to that class and think that's when I was really interested in like learning how to become an investor and to learn that whole industry.

15:24Caroline Carman: Totally. That makes sense. And just one more question on this. when you were when you first got that outreach from um you know rally day were you also evaluating kind of other options or like how did you end up deciding to go and be the first associate and like

15:43Liz Xu: take this wild journey yeah it's a great question um I was evaluating one other opportunity um and I think it was really easy for me to make the decision and it was just like the people in the room that I met with. And the one interview was exactly what you would expect from like a private equity firm. And it was a team of 20. It was all men. I was in this like small conference room, they came in and grilled me for lack of a better word. And it was kind of like, hey, are you smart enough to work here? And that was super uninteresting to me. And And I knew I was smart enough to work there. Obviously.

16:21Liz Xu: And it just felt so transactional and, like, icky. And I was just like, ah, this is – do I really want to – like, if I felt this way in a two-hour interview, I'm going to feel this way every day for the next three years. And that's, like, not a super great feeling. And then I met with Patrick and Carrie Ann and Dom over at Rally Day. And I just had this, like, sense of warmth and belonging. and they were so interested in me, but not just like, hey, can you crank out a model for us? It was like, who are you as a person? What do you want to learn? How can we get you there? Here's what we're doing.

16:55Liz Xu: And this, they really sold me on this, like rally day is a startup and you're going to be a big part of like growing this place and being the first associate and bringing in other associates and kind of getting this place off the ground. And that was really interesting to me. But it truly just kind of came down to how the people made me feel. And the people at Rally Day, if you ever meet them, it's just like really warm. It's really energetic. And it's really authentic. And I think everyone that comes into the office, whether it's a founder or a potential new employee or a vendor, someone we, a board member, everyone kind of leaves with that same feeling and experience, which is really special.

17:35Caroline Carman: That's awesome. And I 100 % agree with you, Like how you feel during an interview process is probably reflective of how your experience working there is going to feel.

17:46Liz Xu: Yeah, most definitely.

17:48Caroline Carman: So if you had to pick one person that you would say has shaped your career the most, who would that be and how have they shaped you?

17:57Liz Xu: Yeah, I love this question because it feels so personal and I feel really lucky that I get to brag on this person. But he's a VP here at Rally Day, so he is my boss. His name is Dom Morel. And he kind of took me under his wing from day one. And he knew how junior I was and how inexperienced I was. And he saw something in me that I probably didn't see in myself. And he was like, you know what? We're going to get you there. I'm going to teach you everything you need to know. And it was just like the most unbelievable experience. And it's still ongoing. And he just like always has seen like intelligence in me.

18:37Liz Xu: And he thinks really highly of me. He's my biggest cheerleader and champion. He's always rooting for me. And he also pushes me when I feel like maybe I can't do something or I'm doing it for the first time, which I hate. I hate not being an expert in something. And he pushes me and knows that I'm capable. And so I work with him every single day. It's like a huge part of why I love this job is working with him. He is the most intelligent person I've ever worked with. It's very intimidating, honestly, because his brain, I say this all the time, it just like works faster than the normal person. So I feel that so hard.

19:15Caroline Carman: I'm so glad because I feel a beat behind all the time.

19:19Liz Xu: Sometimes I have to just say, like, let me sit with that for five minutes and come back to you because I can't quite get there as fast. So it's really intimidating. But he's like made me step up to the plate in so many ways.

19:31Caroline Carman: I, again, totally relate. There are people here where I'm like, I'm not five minutes behind you. I'm like probably 12 steps. I'm like, I need a day to process what has just happened and where you're going. But no, I mean, I think that's one of the like one of the benefits of like doing what we do, which is that we are always surrounded by if you if you pick if you pick right, you're surrounded by people who are way smarter and better than you. And that just it can be, you know, depending on their demeanor and how they work with you, that can be extremely empowering and inspiring to like push you to continuously improve.

20:12Caroline Carman: Totally. But also there's like obviously it's stressful as well.

20:16Liz Xu: Right. You're like, I am so lost, but it's OK. Right. They know that in there.

20:21Caroline Carman: It's fine. Yeah.

20:23Liz Xu: Yeah. It's also like really made me think about, you know, if when we hire new associates, it's like, how do I want to manage them? And how can I be like a dom to someone else? You know, and that's a skill that I don't have yet. And I've never been in that position. But I'm excited for that to happen. And I'm sure I'm going to make a bunch of mistakes along the way. But it's one of those like, if you give back, then like you get back a lot too. And so I just feel like I've gotten so much from him. Like, how could I pour that type of like support and care and like mentorship into someone else? So I think about that a lot.

21:00Liz Xu: And that day will come and hopefully I could be, you know, that person, someone in the future.

21:04Caroline Carman: Well, you were already that person to me at J.P.

21:07Liz Xu: Morgan. Thank you.

21:09Caroline Carman: So day one, every freaking day, I'm just pinging Caroline. Can you come over again? I don't know what this is. Yeah. And then I'd run over to your queue. We'd figure it out and we'd move on. Yeah, that's how it goes. All right. What is something that you figured out recently and wish just wish that somebody had told you a little earlier?

21:28Liz Xu: Yeah, this relates to something that I kind of just said. I I think what I'm learning is it's OK to be a beginner. It's OK to not be an expert. It's OK to not know. And it's really OK to say, like, hey, I'm not sure. let me get back to you let me look into that let me research that more um and the monica in me always wants to have the answer you know and wants to like already be an expert at everything and i think that has limited me in a lot of ways in my career because i almost like don't want to try the new scary thing because the risk of failing is like so crippling to me um that it kind of has allowed me to then like not take those chances to like learn something new and I need to totally get out of my own head on that like it's so internal and I think like people at Rally Day have said like we didn't expect you to be perfect at this on your first try it's okay and we're gonna like teach you and we're gonna learn together and I just need to stop being like so afraid of not being perfect um yeah and I think that's something like a lot of people struggle with I I think it's something a lot of women struggle with, of just, you know, having these insanely high expectations for yourself and thinking that it has to be perfect on day one.

22:46Liz Xu: And you have to be an expert when no one's an expert at something that they've done for the first time. And, yeah, I wish someone had told me that or like 18 year old Caroline, 22 year old Caroline could have like really used that because it limited me a lot. And I'm trying not to let it limit me in the future. Yeah.

23:03Caroline Carman: To that point, is there something that like has taken you like we always say, you know, it's okay to not be perfect at something on the first try. Do you feel like there's something that you have continuously like struggled with maybe like two, three, four or five times? Like I feel like for me, those are the areas where it can really start to get in your head where it's like, of course, no one expects you to be perfect your first time around. But then when there is like a task or a habit or something that you're like, I, for some reason, keep missing this. Like what is going on? Like that's when it really gets frustrating to me and like can really get in my head.

23:44Caroline Carman: I don't know. Is that something that you've experienced at all? Totally.

23:48Liz Xu: I'm trying to think of something specific. There's nothing.

23:52Caroline Carman: I'm just one second try.

23:55Liz Xu: Perfect.

23:55Caroline Carman: Every time.

23:56Liz Xu: Right, right. Of course. That's like the dream. There are totally things like that that keep like tripping me up. And I always have to go back and like reference like something that's already done or something that I like did, you know, a handful of months or years ago to kind of like get through it. I think right now, like specifically the big hurdles, the wrong word, but like the big learning for me right now is just like the whole legal process and like legal documentation, which I feel like is really daunting. And it feels like this like big, scary thing. And oh, my gosh, there's so many documents and how they all work together.

24:32Liz Xu: And how do you get what you need to out of all of them and what's important and what's not important in like a negotiation? and so that was like a huge goal for me in 2026 of like I am mastering these documents but I would say every time I get a turn of something I have to go reference like my cheat sheet on like what does this mean what are we even saying here you know what's the argument for the buyer the seller and what's our position and like negotiation style so yeah that for me right now is like a really big learning. And I think it's again, like giving myself grace of, I haven't, you know, done this 100 times.

25:12Caroline Carman: Yeah. And those are also like negotiations are so different each time around. It's not like it'll be like an exact replica of like, totally make that same page again, like it totally, it's, you know, more malleable and changing. Yeah. Do you feel like that's something that you've started to tackle more and feel more prepared to like, Like as you've become more senior and like spent more time, because there are also some things that I feel like, you know, I think like so you're a senior associate now. Like were there things that like suddenly became really hard or like suddenly you had a lot more exposure to like how was that transition for you?

25:45Liz Xu: Yeah, that's a great question. I feel like as an associate who was just learning and like trying to get my arms around everything, I was a little bit like heads down just doing the work. And that served me really well for the first two years of my career of like, hey, come in. You're going to work really hard. You're going to put together all the materials. You're going to put together the model. And you're kind of just like the person cranking out the work. And I think the transition to senior associate is like I have to like lift my head up a little bit and like not be in the sand, but like the 50 ,000 foot view a little bit of like, OK, really having like an investment thesis and really have an opinion on an add on that we're doing for one of our platforms.

26:25Liz Xu: form companies and really have a relationship with the CFO of our portfolio companies? And how can you be a supporting member to their team? And how can you two work together on things? And how can you be a strategic advisor to the CEO? And when he or she comes to you, what are you going to say? And how can you help them run their business? So I feel like my first two years, I was just like on my keyboard, like, go, go, go, go, go. And then it turned into a little bit like, OK, whoa, I have this really, really interesting job where I have like really unique influence on these people and how am I going to show up in like the best way and how am I going to be really prepared and how am I going to be a partner to these management teams and work really closely with the business so I would say that's like been

27:08Caroline Carman: the biggest change in the two roles yeah totally makes sense yeah and that is something that is both exciting and probably scary too for other associates thinking about you know a senior associate role where it's like yes it's you have all this additional you know weight to your your tasks your words but then also like with that comes you know more responsibility and accountability as well for sure for sure yeah all right so the next question for you is more about the industry itself is there something that you're excited about or most interested in as it relates to the current state of private equity.

27:51Liz Xu: Yeah. I feel like this is a little bit of an expected answer. So it's not a cop-out, but I feel like most people would maybe say this. I'm really excited. Let's say it at the same time. Okay, ready? AI.

28:02Caroline Carman: One, two, three, AI. Yeah, classic. I did not see the answers beforehand. And I think, you know, specifically for Rally Day,

28:15Liz Xu: We have just started to undergo an AI transformation project that's going to last us through the end of the year. And we're doing that with one of our portfolio companies, which is a business called Nimble Gravity, which is a data and AI consultancy. They're also based out of Denver, Colorado, which is kind of fun. And we are now a customer of their product and service. And it's been really interesting to kind of like map out how we think AI could like shape our business. and we made a list of like 50 use cases of, hey, if AI could do this, this, this, this, and this, that would make our jobs better, our lives better.

28:54We could focus on things that matter more

28:58Liz Xu: and how can we like embed AI into our day-to-day life. So we narrowed down the list from 50 to like 10 and we're focusing on those 10 and they're kind of like rolling out in waves. And it's just been really interesting to see people, you know accept this technology learn it we're all kind of championing like a different one of the 10 skills um and I'm just excited for what the future holds and I feel like the smallest little things I get really excited about and I'm no like technology expert but I'm like oh my gosh I can do this like that's so helpful and I just think by the end of the year I'll be operating really differently in my role as a senior associate and I'm excited about that right so you guys are using

29:43Caroline Carman: AI to kind of, you know, change how you as a private equity, like, you know, employee, I guess, are doing your work. How, if you can share kind of like those 10 work streams, like, is, are there a few that you're the most invested in and like the, if that you're most involved in? And if so, like,

30:02Liz Xu: kind of what are those work streams and how are they going to impact you? Totally. So one is kind of like putting together a we call them povs like a point of view on a thesis um and it's something maybe that we're interesting in interested in um it's opportunistic we maybe met a founder at a conference or like a book came in the other week on this industry and we know you know nothing about it how can we get up to speed really quickly how can a few junior people like really dig in and then how can we go like teach the rest of the firm about it and why we're interested in maybe running down this industry.

30:36Liz Xu: And so that's one of our projects, one of our like top 10 projects that we're working on with Nibble Gravity of like, how can we create these thesis decks and how can we absorb a bunch of information and really good information really quickly. And so we're talking about like, how can we pull down the most unique and interesting research, but really relevant research and how can we like sift through the noise of it all. And then that kind of leads into another initiative on that list is then how can we go source companies within that industry and so um there's like another you know big ai work stream of how can we like perfect our sourcing and how can it be quicker and faster and how can we intrigue founders um to have like a an intro call with patrick for example and how can we create materials that are interesting that make us feel like we're really experts because we're becoming experts in that industry and how can we use that as a sourcing mechanism.

31:31Caroline Carman: Yeah. Where do you feel like, let's say the AI is really strong and where do you feel like you as the senior associate are like,

31:39Liz Xu: actually like, I am way better at this than you are right now and you need to learn from me. What are you seeing as kind of the strengths and weaknesses of those projects so far? Good question. I think the research aspect, it is very good at. and I think back to like how I would go about finding, you know, really good equity research or industry research and it was hard and you'd go to like CapIQ over here for this and then you'd go to like company investor reports over here for this and you'd have to read through all of it and like kind of come up with your own like summary of it. I think the AI is really good at getting to like the top 10 things you need to know about this industry really quickly.

32:20Liz Xu: So that I've been really, really impressed by and I can just see myself getting up to speed on new industries a lot quicker. I think where AI struggles, and I think you'll agree with me on this, is then like putting that into a compelling story and presentation line and being able to like share that perspective with someone else. Like I don't think the AI is persuasive yet. It's just informational. And then I think you and me kind of then have to put this together in an argument and like go present it to the partners of our firm as to why like we want to go tackle this industry or strategy.

32:55Caroline Carman: I totally agree. I think like framing things and like coming up with actually what the idea is here is still something that it's not so good at. And I think like but of course things are changing so rapidly at this point that it's like by the time this video comes out, that might not be true anymore.

33:14Liz Xu: It'll get there. No, totally.

33:15Caroline Carman: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So last question for you on the career stuff. What is a commonly held belief about private equity that you don't necessarily agree with?

33:26Liz Xu: I think most people think like private equity guys are like a copy paste of one another and they're all the same person and they all wear the same thing. They act the same. They're going to come into your business and say the same thing and be really demanding. And I think that I've noticed just getting to know, you know, my firm and your firm and like other firms that exist and other private equity professionals that exist that it is not a one size fits all. And there's like a lot of different ways to be a really good investor. There's a lot of different ways to work really well with your portfolio companies.

34:05Liz Xu: And it is far from a one size fits all. It's also what attracted me to Rally Day just because, you know, I would it's really easy to tell when you're like on the phone with maybe the like, quote unquote, private equity guy place. And that's not super enticing to me. It's like wouldn't be super enticing to you just because of who we are. And I think that there's good pockets of people who are really interested in making really strong investments, working really closely with management teams, being a support system to management teams, trying to improve the like the culture and the purpose of organizations and enrich everyone's life at that organization.

34:45Liz Xu: And it's not just a, hey, we're the PE guys. We come in and we're going to flip the business. and I would never want to work at a place that talks like that because there's so much more than what we do of just like going in, levering up the business, flipping it, selling it, getting the check and riding off into the sunset. It is so much more than that. It's so much harder than that.

35:06Caroline Carman: Oh, totally. So yeah, that's what I would say that that's a belief that I think most

35:12Liz Xu: people would agree with that I fully disagree with.

35:15Caroline Carman: Yeah, I guess kind of to, you know, click into that a little more yeah like do you feel like that's mostly because of where we sit in the market where we're working directly with founders and like like that is necessarily true and would be effective um in other parts of the market like let's say you know if we're a few magnitudes of revenue higher for example it's a very good question i think that

35:44Liz Xu: But because we're typically investing in founder-led businesses, our energy and our approach to investing is really attractive because founders feel so tied to their business. It's not like a CEO that's come in halfway through the journey and they're getting up to speed and then they're operating it and growing it a bunch. this is these founders like baby is this business and they want to let people invest in it who care about it as much as they do and who care about their people as much as they do so i think i think our approach really works at this end of the market where you are working with founder-led businesses um who want a private equity firm that's going to be really involved but be really really thoughtful about caring about their people and their leaders and their team, all the way from the executive team, all the way down to individual contributors.

36:41Liz Xu: And I think that's something that Rally Day does very, very well. Great. Yeah.

36:46Caroline Carman: Well, that was awesome. I think that was it on the career side of things. I'm going to initiate the closing call here, which is our last rapid fire segment. And then unfortunately, we'll have to say goodbye. But all right.

37:04Liz Xu: So the first one is what is the best book that you've read this year? I read a really good book. It's called The Things We Leave Unfinished. And it's by Rebecca Yaros, who's the author of the Fourth Wing series. Very different from Fourth Wing. This is like a really interesting World War II romance novel.

37:25Caroline Carman: It's not about all the AI skills we haven't finished.

37:28Liz Xu: No, most certainly not. Thank God. And it's really interesting because it's like a, it's a modern day story. And then there's like flashbacks to like a World War II romance story. And the people, the characters are related through like generations. But it's really interesting. It's totally my type of book, like total heartbreak story. And I really, really enjoyed reading that. I read that on vacation and got very sucked into it. I read it in three days, which is my favorite way to read a book on beach vacation. That's the dream.

38:04Caroline Carman: So I recommend that one. Great. We'll have to check it out. Yeah. All right. Second, what is your go-to karaoke song?

38:12Liz Xu: Yeah, this is a good one too. I had to pick something, Taylor Swift. I just had to.

38:18Caroline Carman: Checks out.

38:19Liz Xu: Yeah, it's in my blood. I couldn't not. And I went with Cruel Summer. I went with Cruel Summer. Great. It feels like a good one. Yeah.

38:28Caroline Carman: Love it. And last but not least, if you weren't in private equity, what would you be doing instead?

38:34Liz Xu: I think just learning about all of the founders that I work with and how they've created their businesses and why they've created them makes me think that I would be able to do something entrepreneurial. and I don't know exactly what that is and I don't have some like crazy idea of what I would do but going back to the Monica thing which is like weaved its way so nicely throughout this whole conversation I would want it to be a place where people gather and where people come together and so whether that's a coffee shop or a bookshop or a workout studio concept I'm not quite sure but something entrepreneurial where you're gathering people and where people leave their homes to come in and like join in and be with other people in the community and I worry that like how society is trending that people are so insular and people are so at home and people are so in front of their homes that we're losing a lot of community and we're losing connection with one another our neighbors and so doing something entrepreneurial I think would be really fun and it would be how to get people in the same place.

39:45Liz Xu: And I think it's great for people because you realize we have a lot more in common than we have different from one another. And I just worry that we're not gathering in the same way that we used to. So I'd love to start something where people could gather.

40:02Caroline Carman: I don't know what it is. Create a little third space for people.

40:05Liz Xu: Exactly. Love that.

40:06Caroline Carman: Well, this was so fun, Caroline. Really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy week to talk to me. Thank you. I hope you got your mug in the mail. I did. I shipped it all the way to Denver. Should we do the mug reveal?

40:21Liz Xu: Yes, mug reveal. There you go. And a cheers?

40:24Caroline Carman: Yes. Thanks for having me, Liz. Yay. Cheers. See you guys on the next one.