Parker Gals |The Career Switcher's Guide to Private Equity (w/ Maggie Pugel, Frontenac)

0:00Cass Ziebel: If I wasn't doing private equity, I could see myself teaching on something. And I don't know what topic, but probably something finance related at this point. Because that's all I know.

0:07Maggie Pugel: I think you could do it all. Okay, you're going to be a mom in private equity who also teaches on the side. You should just call it down. Bring it down a little.

0:31Maggie Pugel: Hi, I'm Cass Ebel. Welcome back to the Parker Gal HQ where we are filming the Parker Gals podcast with our first guest ever.

0:42Cass Ziebel: Oh, I know.

0:44Maggie Pugel: Surprise.

0:44Cass Ziebel: You didn't tell me that.

0:46Maggie Pugel: Surprise. Good to know. We are here with Maggie Pugel, who is a CFA. It's true. An MBA.

0:56Cass Ziebel: Also true.

0:56Maggie Pugel: What other letters do you have? An M-O-M. M-O-M. And one of my good friends from business school. And she's a VP at Front Neck. Maggie has a really interesting career arc in that she started an equity research and broke into private equity. They call me a career switcher, I think. A career switcher. Is the term. Wow. Really, really crazy switch from staring at spreadsheets to staring at spreadsheets in a different way. Exactly. But apparently it is.

1:25Cass Ziebel: but yeah maggie and i where do we meet we met in business school yes and more specifically i think it was the first week of business school oh geez you sat next to me on a bus um i think we were heading to like a ropes course doing like okay trust falls okay a climbing wall business school is very serious yes business school is very serious a lot of money to go to a rope you learn a lot um and you meet a lot of great people um particularly a lot of great women which is wonderful um and you sat next to me and I remember specifically telling you that I wanted to go into private equity yes and you were like oh well that's easy yeah I did it first person who responded that way you could totally do it are you sure yeah um and then you also told me um about your You were both engaged at the time.

2:18Cass Ziebel: So you told me about your engagement. Yes, we were both engaged. Yes. To Tyler. And that you had thought he was about to break up with you. Yes.

2:25Maggie Pugel: I love a very vulnerable. That sounds like me. Like, I'm like, I'm going to tell you a very embarrassing story.

2:31Cass Ziebel: To kick off a friendship. To kick off our friendship.

2:33Maggie Pugel: And if you're into it, we can be friends.

2:35Cass Ziebel: And I was into it.

2:36Maggie Pugel: Yeah. So the rest is history. Yes. To be fair. So Tyler, my now husband and father to my children. did throw me for a loop because he was just like mysteriously gone for like days at a time before he proposed to me and I like knew that he wasn't where he said he was so he was like oh I met my friend Dave's but like this is the era of the internet and Dave posted on his Instagram stories that Dave was in Colorado and he was actually like at your parents house at my parents house yeah amazing so it ended up all being good things he was like picking out rings and other things but like I was like there was just large times that we were like that he was just unaccounted for and I was like I think he might be breaking up with me I remember it vividly and I think it was the start of a great friendship so yes amazing so we did the ropes course you so you were at equity research at aerial investments I was at equity research at aerial investments I was there

3:38Cass Ziebel: for about three years. Yes. Also not an easy job to get. Not an easy job to get, but a really incredible first job and loved working with the team there. John Rogers has a great group there and really just an impressive individual and thankful to be a part of the aerial community as well as the Frontenac community. So for those who don't know,

3:59Maggie Pugel: what is equity research?

4:01Cass Ziebel: So I worked specifically on buy-side equity research. So Aerial Investments is a mutual fund. And what our job is, is to pick stocks to put into the funds and hold for a long term period of time. And so as a right out of undergrad, I was tasked with covering stocks. I very vividly remember some of my first stock choices. Shout out to Houlihan Loki for actually being a really great return.

4:26Maggie Pugel: There you go. And a few others.

4:29Cass Ziebel: And it was it was a lot of exposure early on and really enjoyed it.

4:35Maggie Pugel: Yeah. And then you went to business school and you're like, I kind of want to do this private equity thing.

4:39Cass Ziebel: What drew me to private equity in particular was the chance to work more deeply on fewer companies. So instead of covering kind of 20 to 30 companies, I'd be covering three to five more closely and really working on holding the business for a longer period of time. Having control. Having control, having your hands on the value creation strategy a bit more closely. and that's proven to be true with all different other things that I've learned being at Frontenac and I've been at Frontenac now for about six years I know you and you at the time you were

5:16Maggie Pugel: like okay I'm doing the career switching thing yes did I say that right career switching is what people say yes um and so you were like I'd love a VP role but I will take a associate senior

5:26Cass Ziebel: associate whatever it takes I am so thankful that I went the senior associate route as opposed to going straight into VP because I think if you haven't had exposure to a private equity firm, you don't really understand the deal process and the deal execution. And so by being able to be the senior associate, getting a handful of reps early on in my career, I weren't expected to

5:49Maggie Pugel: quarterback a process that you didn't quite understand. Exactly.

5:52Cass Ziebel: And I got to, I think I'm a better VP because of it. I really understand what to look out for in the models and in the data rooms and in the analysis. And I highly recommend for career switchers to consider going that route. Yeah. Your career is a marathon. It is not a sprint. Yeah.

6:12Maggie Pugel: It's easy to get fixated on like, but I was like this title and then I'm going to switch. And then like my title is not going to be as appealing as if I stayed in my industry and I was, I came back and I was a VP or a principal right away. There's a lot of focus on titles.

6:25Cass Ziebel: And I think you got to find the place that's right for you and you got to find the role that's right for you and if you if it clicks it really I think can

6:35Maggie Pugel: mean a lot of upside which is terrific okay so we covered where you work you're at Front Neck a major institution here as people think about private equity in Chicago you guys are on your 13th fund I was gonna say 14 13 oh my gosh fund 13 lucky 13 we decided not to skip 13 it was that

6:54Cass Ziebel: was a thing that was a thing for me but no one else i partners didn't really discuss that i'm a little stitious i'm not superstitious we're on fund 13 it's a 900 million dollar fund nice um

7:05Maggie Pugel: and we've been around for over 50 years yeah that's what institution like yeah amazing yeah um and then what what do you what does front neck focus on in terms of like industries business

7:17Cass Ziebel: services yep industrial and consumer yep and i'm dedicated on the consumer side on the consumer

7:22Maggie Pugel: side.

7:23Cass Ziebel: And our typical approach to investing, we execute what we call our CEO first initiative, where we really believe that partnering with operators to execute on investment thesis is really the way to drive value creation and returns long-term for the organization.

7:37Maggie Pugel: So you're constantly kind of reaching out and meeting and talking to executives is a huge part of your role now. Yes.

7:44Cass Ziebel: There's no deal without an executive, basically. And so a big part of my role not only is working with banks and working with finding the pipeline of deals and acquisitions, but actually networking and meeting executives who really want to serve in this unique role as a chairman first or CEO first partner, someone who really is hands-on involved in the value creation post-close.

8:06Maggie Pugel: Yeah. You hear that, people? If you're a CEO and consumer, talk to Maggie. Reach out. Yes. Okay. We're going to get into our indications of interest. indication of interests the teaser the ioi segment great about your interests okay so this is just to get to know you what's your go-to comfort show i think the longest arc of a

8:30Cass Ziebel: show that i've gone back to is probably the office the office yes do you watch the office

8:35Maggie Pugel: in order or do you just watch whatever you probably know that about me like i'm a very

8:40Cass Ziebel: that feels on brand. I don't jump around to a random episode. It would be like I started over.

8:46Maggie Pugel: It's a very jump around-y of like, if you've watched it once, you could.

8:50Cass Ziebel: You totally can, but that's not my MO in life.

8:53Maggie Pugel: How many times have you watched it through? Probably at least four. Wow. There's a lot of seasons.

9:00Cass Ziebel: There's a, yeah, The Office is high on the list of shows that I've gone back and re-watched. Yeah. I also have a comfort movie. Yes.

9:09Maggie Pugel: Which I think is very important. Oh my God, I don't want to know how many times you've watched.

9:13Cass Ziebel: The Sound of Music. Okay. Is a go-to. And I did just learn that one of our associates did not know what The Sound of Music was. And so now I think it's got to be part of our onboarding to potentially watch The Sound of Music.

9:26Maggie Pugel: We watched with our associates, Nico and Liz. We made them watch The Princess Bride.

9:32Cass Ziebel: Because they hadn't seen it. Yes. And like sit down together. It's also a very good movie. And watch it. Inconceivable. Yes.

9:38Maggie Pugel: Yes. Yes. exactly so this was it was important it was important enough to include it it was not in onboarding it was like two years in but we found out they or actually I think Nico had seen it and Liz hadn't but he was a good yeah he was good to he's like I'll watch it again twist my arm

9:54Cass Ziebel: yeah the associate who has not seen it is an absolutely excellent associate so just shout out to just because you haven't watched the sound of music doesn't does it mean it's not great

10:03Maggie Pugel: associate got it okay they're not there's not a correlation correlation there okay you are missing out on. But it's still important. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. What is something what is something that you can cook without looking at a recipe?

10:14Cass Ziebel: My husband is a much better cook than I am.

10:16Maggie Pugel: I feel like this is going to be a trend for the show. I'm calling it because I don't know. I'm the same way. Tyler is a much better cook than I am.

10:24Cass Ziebel: So my no notes recipe would probably be what I call cheesy eggs and we call it cheesy eggs because my son calls it cheesy eggs.

10:34Maggie Pugel: Excellent.

10:34Cass Ziebel: And it's really just three to four eggs and a massive dollop of cottage cheese. Cottage cheese? Yes, cottage cheese. Very protein forward on trend. The key is to cook it over a relatively low heat and then to turn it off before you think it's done and it cooks the rest of the way.

10:53Maggie Pugel: Are you scrambling these eggs?

10:55Cass Ziebel: Yes, they're definitely scrambled.

10:56Maggie Pugel: Okay. With the cheese in them before you put them in?

10:59Cass Ziebel: Yes, the cheese goes in first and you scramble the cheese with the cottage cheese. This is important. I'm going to try this this weekend. You don't really need salt because oftentimes cottage cheese has salt in it. Yeah. And a little bit of pepper and it's great.

11:10Maggie Pugel: Good to know. Yeah. And I don't need a recipe for that. You will enjoy this. Eggs was my answer with like a lot of butter though. So yours is a much more well-rounded version of eggs. Yeah. You're welcome for that. That's amazing. Okay. So you mentioned you have a son. What is your perfect Saturday? It is okay if it doesn't include him.

11:28Cass Ziebel: Oh, it absolutely does include him. Hanging out with my son is the best. um we like a year and a half now he's over he's 19 months yes he's got this great personality high energy um he's fun and he's very sweet and a little timid which i i like all those combinations of things and uh my perfect saturday is spending the day with him um probably going to the farmer's market so yeah um we go to the green city market i was gonna say you're in a really

12:00Maggie Pugel: good location for to go to the farmer's market a great farmer's market near us and then um

12:05Cass Ziebel: i would say dinner with my husband afterwards like out like out out yeah out and about going out to dinner would be nice yes it's a lot harder when you have a kid to go out to dinner with your husband that's a new thing for us yes so you have to get a nanny yeah or a babysitter to come and uh it's or or grandma that's often grandma grandma's great yes oh my gosh i feel that i feel

12:29Maggie Pugel: like you're also very good at like even post being a mom yes being on top of restaurant trends I'm trying like you will message me like two months out okay I we all know this I am not a two months out plus planner that's true I just sent out birthday invites for my kids four-year-old birthday like two weeks before her birthday party um whereas you're sending me reservations like two three months in advance you're like this hot restaurant on the scene just opened up we're going we're going at table for four yes yeah like hold the time three months from now and I'm like absolutely if you give me that much time I like make it work babysitter I'll let Tyler know whatever needs to happen I'll make it work but like I feel like you're like on trend okay let's get into some career questions so we talked a little bit about what you wanted to do with like what drew you into private equity in terms of like the models of like hey I was in equity research I want to I want a little bit more control was there anything else that you were like when you went to business school you're like I want to why did I want to get into private equity or so um what drew you into it what drew me into private equity I think first and foremost and one of the

13:42Cass Ziebel: things I've discovered to be true is I work with very smart people yeah I work with people who are driven and motivated and excited about what they do and you can't not be in this job I mean it's a very demanding job and you're always doing something different. You're always doing something interesting. And that's been one of the things that I've found true about it. And I think that was my hypothesis going in, but I didn't really know that to be a reality. And I found that certainly to be true is just the energy that people bring on a daily basis to this career is incredible. And the excitement and interest and also dedication to constant learning and intellectual curiosity.

14:21Maggie Pugel: There's so much variety because you have to learn new industries. You have to meet new people to get a deal done. It's like you're learning constantly about something new.

14:30Cass Ziebel: You're learning constantly about something. You need to try to become an expert as fast as you can on a new topic, on a new category. You need to understand what makes this business tick, what are the underlying drivers and KPIs. And even as you do so much diligence to really understand a company, you still don't really know what you're getting into until you truly own it And you discover more and more as you're kind of going through that process. And so, you know, I found it to be just an incredibly dynamic career. And the other thing about private equity is the amount of people that you work with.

15:04Cass Ziebel: You just work with so many different types of people at so many different companies. And I think that's really enjoyable. So those were things that I thought going into business school, but it proved to be true. And then some.

15:14Maggie Pugel: The hypothesis was correct. That feels right for you as well.

15:17Cass Ziebel: Good doubt.

15:18Maggie Pugel: Yeah, it proved out. So as you were, so before you got into private equity, as you were kind of thinking through your career, who are some mentors or a mentor that stands out?

15:29Cass Ziebel: Definitely David Maley, who was my first direct boss at Ariel Investments. He truly from the beginning, like believed in me in a way that just huge was great. and um he pushed me the way like out of undergrad you don't necessarily get a lot of responsibility and he just believed that I could do it and just kept giving me more and more responsibility early on and at first I think it felt overwhelming but in reality it showed me what I was capable of oh yeah and um he just was great he what a great first boss to have he was a really great first boss and shout out to David he's a great guy because I think it's really easy early in your

16:17Maggie Pugel: career to get stuck into like very tactical like I can do x and y but I can't do yet or like

16:24Cass Ziebel: or feeling like a small participant in a bigger organization like he just made me feel important and that my opinion mattered and um that I should have an opinion and yeah that meant everything Yeah.

16:37Maggie Pugel: And that makes it so much easier to like take feedback. Like it's a, it's a like fulfilling prophecy in that, like, it's easier as a manager to like give feedback to somebody. If you're like, I truly just want the, what's best for you. And you're like, I truly feel like you want what's best for me.

16:52Cass Ziebel: I matured a lot in that particular role and I'm still maturing in my roles today. Yeah.

16:58Maggie Pugel: You mean you're not all done growing up?

16:59Cass Ziebel: I'm not all done growing up. Stay tuned.

17:02Maggie Pugel: okay so let's talk about something um as we talk about you're constantly learning you're not all grown up yet no so what's something that you've learned recently that you wish you knew sooner

17:16Cass Ziebel: I think the most powerful thing that I've embraced recently is just that you cannot control other people and you can really only control yourself and it's a very freeing way to live yes um and I think it's one of those things that's like everyone kind of hears that and knows that but actually fundamentally believing it is very powerful and acting in a way that like yeah and letting that kind of be yeah I've really enjoyed that yeah I feel like that's a big lesson

17:44Maggie Pugel: I learned it motherhood almost forces that out of you a little bit because you're like this being came from me and I can't control this thing yeah it's like how do I expect I can control anybody else.

17:57Cass Ziebel: The unconditional love component of motherhood is incredible. And I think it's really important to let your kids be who they want to be. And I'm trying, I'm very early in that journey. We'll see how that goes, but.

18:09Maggie Pugel: It's going great. It will continue. 19 years. Great. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So what are you most excited about in the industry? Now it could be like consumer, it could be like private equity, whatever, however you want to take it. But what are you most excited about right now?

18:23Cass Ziebel: I think the thing that I'm fundamentally most excited about is AI. Okay. And say more. We talk about AI a little bit. So I would say Frontenac is really leaning in on AI, which I very much appreciate. It's driven from the top down and bottom up. Like everyone is trying to embrace it, which I think is essential to incorporate it into your organization because it's a tool that's now here and we can use it. And I am would say early in my learning of AI. Like I want to learn how to use it more and more, but just, I think it's going to really change the way in which we work. I think it's going to change the way in which we think, which is a little scary.

19:06You want to make sure you're, you're still thinking as much, but I, you know, we use it early on and when a SIM comes in, we'll put it through it.

19:15Cass Ziebel: We'll run red flags through it. There's a lot of positive kind of early momentum and we're trying to do that across the deal process. Yes. While at the same time ensuring that, you know, the rigor and diligence standards that we have set as an organization are met.

19:30Maggie Pugel: Yeah. Because in a deal setting, you want to move fast, but there are a ton of bottlenecks of reviewing things. And you're still going to do that once you like find something that's really, really interesting. You're still going to give it that time and attention. But like, how do we get through those bottlenecks faster and then to your earlier point of like hey like I'm spending a lot of time with like meeting executives wow like if you can if you can automate some of like the portion of day-to-day work yeah um and make it just that much faster like that frees up your schedule more to like go meet somebody for a lunch and get to know somebody go have a new conversation and a phone call.

20:09Maggie Pugel: I feel like something that I'm positive about with AI is if we do it right, it allows more time for connection and like actually spending time outside of just being in front of a computer, which is a lot of what the job can become.

20:26Cass Ziebel: Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see where we are in five and 10 years with this new capability.

20:34Maggie Pugel: It's kind of incredible um and then as we think about private equity as a whole what's something that people think about private equity on the outside that you don't agree or maybe even on the inside that you don't necessarily agree with I think maybe I'll speak to what's true to me which is

20:55Cass Ziebel: just the fact that you can be a career switcher in this industry and you can come from a different training set and that you bring something to the table when you do that. Yes. And at Ariel, I was really trained to think like an investor in a way that I don't think I would have in other industries leading into private equity. And so, you know, whether it's coming out of consulting or coming out of accounting or coming out of, you know, other industries and really learning how to think in a different way, I think there's a lot that people can bring to the table. totally if they're not just the typical route and the decision the one thing that i've been struck by is how early the decision to go into investment banking and go into private equity is being pushed at the college level oh it's insane like when i was there it was more kind of your junior senior year where you had to decide now it's like your freshman which is also like

21:49Maggie Pugel: insane if you think about like a life and as you say a career is a marathon to like have to make that choice so early on. And like if you're in investment banking now, you're like one month into the job before you're recruiting for the private equity role, you're going to get two years out.

22:05Cass Ziebel: Exactly. It's insane. It's a lot. And I think it's too bad that that happens. And I think it's on us to figure out how we can find folks who really bring different skill sets to the table and kind of our additive to our thought process and help us think critically as a firm as we make investment decisions.

22:25Maggie Pugel: I can relate because I was also a career, a non-traditional path to Parker Yale. So I did go to Parker Yale as an associate before I went to business school. So I had already kind of broken in, but I didn't do the investment banking path. I came from an accounting firm. And what I tell people, because people see that and they're like, oh, like I don't come from, I didn't do investment banking. And I used to have a lot of conversations, less so now. But people who are at a similar age and stage of like, how do I make that switch? And I always tell them the same thing. Like, you actually have something different.

23:02Maggie Pugel: And I think that's important to highlight. Like, you have to have the fundamentals. So like, hey, if you don't know how to do a model, you got to learn how to do a model. And, you know, in the days of AI, you certainly have to understand how it works in order to, like, review a model. even if it's done for you in some ways, automated in some ways. But you have to get the fundamentals right, but then highlight what your background brings to the table that maybe a traditional background wouldn't. And I think there is a ton of value in that. But we're going to go into the closing call. So this is kind of like rapid fire closing segment.

23:40Maggie Pugel: We're already here. Isn't that crazy? How did that go?

23:42Cass Ziebel: That went fast. Yes.

23:44Maggie Pugel: um so what's the best book you've read in this past you are a big reader what's I think I actually still have one of your books at my house I think you do yes what's the best book that you've read

23:55Cass Ziebel: this year um hold on I'm trying to I think you still have vanishing half that's the book I lent to you don't worry about it don't worry about it it's gone it's fine um it was a good book I my so I I love to read fiction um and after having my son I stopped reading because motherhood because and yes it just this year it takes up a lot of time so in this year I've gone back to reading yes and that feels right like a year in yeah you're like okay now I can read at night he actually sleeps through the night and things are great yeah so um Demon Copperhead which I'm a little late to the game on yes but I read it in January wow yes I read that it was very bleak

24:42Maggie Pugel: because I read it on maternity leave and it's not necessarily an uplifting tale no I agree I was

24:48Cass Ziebel: also late to the game it's so good it's a great book um I also read kin this year which is on the New York Times bestseller list it's a really excellent story of um two women who grow up um Kind of like sisters and end up in very different life paths, but it's a very moving story. I also read Strangers, which is getting all sorts of attention. It's about a woman in New York who gets divorced.

25:14Maggie Pugel: And it's also a good read. Yes. I heard that's very much, very intriguing.

25:21Cass Ziebel: People are really, it's flying off the shelf.

25:22Maggie Pugel: Yes.

25:23Cass Ziebel: Right now.

25:24Maggie Pugel: Yes. It's about a divorce.

25:27Cass Ziebel: After a long marriage. Yes. and money and all sorts of interesting. It's got it all. Yeah, it's got it all.

25:32Maggie Pugel: So amazing. So I like that you gave me three. That's good. And I will rent one of those from you. I'll return the book that I have and I'll use the Maggie Pugel library. So I accidentally bought the

25:45Cass Ziebel: Kin book in big font. You know how when you like order a book on Amazon. So I'll give you that one. Great. But I love that.

25:52Maggie Pugel: I don't like this very much. Cass can have it. I love when you order a book on Amazon and you get it and you're like, oh, this is not normal font. But I kind of liked it.

26:02Cass Ziebel: I was like, I might do this more often.

26:04Maggie Pugel: That's amazing. Maggie, do you do a lot of karaoke? Because the next song I want to ask you is what's your go-to karaoke song? But I don't know.

26:12Cass Ziebel: So I don't do a ton of karaoke. But if you did. If I did, it would be Piano Man because I have a terrible voice and it's a very forgiving song. We're giving song and like everyone is going to join in. Everyone's going to join in and it'll mask your singing. Yeah. Like happy birthday. I sing a lot to my son. Yeah. Right now. And I sing to him all sorts of different songs. Yes. Particularly from the sound of music or like nursery rhymes. Yes. And recently we had brunch with a woman who is a professionally trained opera singer. And she started singing and my son heard her voice. Oh no. And I think.

26:48Cass Ziebel: Ruined it forever. I think it ruined it forever. Like I, his mind realized like, oh, this is available. This is what it's supposed to sound like. Not what you're doing, mom. Wow. So we'll see if he recovers. Yeah. Yeah. If he recovers from that trauma. I think it's actually more probably my experience of being devastated by that.

27:11Maggie Pugel: Well, hopefully he won't. I think this is a very normal thing or maybe it's just my kids. but like my older daughter got to an age where she was just like, like stop singing. Stop singing. Wow. And now she like calls me out. Like she's like, like, especially if she wants to sing, if Taylor Swift is on and I start singing Taylor Swift, she's like, mama, don't sing. She's just like, it's really, she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like let Taylor, let Taylor do it. I don't want to hear you sing.

27:40Cass Ziebel: That's so devastating. It's like right now. it's like my voice is great to him but in reality it's so bad so it's yeah no man is where I go to

27:49Maggie Pugel: it's great amazing safe zone um if you weren't in private equity if you weren't a career switcher into private equity where would you be what would you do instead so I do I think I would be really

28:03Cass Ziebel: interested in being some sort of teacher I've had a lot of and we've talked about this too we've had I've had a lot of positive experiences with teachers in my life and people have been really impactful. You know, more recently at business school, I think Chris McGowan, Steve Kaplan, Laura Bourne, like just an Iroise, who's just about the best lecturer. Like his lectures are.

28:26Maggie Pugel: Yes. I took two of his classes when I was at Booth.

28:29Cass Ziebel: He teaches taxes and business strategy and he makes it interesting to actually enjoy that class in like a way that you're like, this is amazing yeah um reverse morris trust the seagram's case amazing shout out shout out ira um so i think that like doing something in teaching you know whether it's high school college or mba level would be really interesting to me long term yeah and you ta'd for laura born's class too i ta'd for laura and ira and um yeah i could if i wasn't doing private equity i could see myself teaching on something and I don't know what topic but probably something finance related at this point because that's all I know I think you could do it all okay you're

29:09Maggie Pugel: going to be a mom in private equity who also teaches on the side you just call it down bring it down a little okay Maggie if we were to go back to business school very beginning of business school we're on the bus we're going to the ropes course okay um which was years eight years ago eight years ago eight or nine years ago and you were to tell yourself something uh give yourself a piece of advice what would that piece of advice be knowing what you know now

29:45Cass Ziebel: I think maybe just that you can do this yeah and to enjoy it to enjoy it to enjoy to enjoy the career to enjoy the career enjoy the ride yeah that it'll turn out yeah in a great way because it can be very stressful it can be very stressful yeah I think the early business school time is a very stressful time for for people who are especially trying to sort out where they belong and where they want to go. And it's a big investment.

30:13Maggie Pugel: And when people are telling you like, oh, that's going to be really hard. Yeah. You want to be a career searcher? Oh, that's going to be really hard. I'm like, poo poo. Yeah.

30:20Cass Ziebel: Leave, leave me alone.

30:21Maggie Pugel: I know it's going to be hard, but I can do it. Do this. That's why I'm here. Yeah.

30:25Cass Ziebel: It's really great. I always enjoy going back to Booth and Chris McGowan has been great asking us to come back and be part of his class and in different ways. And I really enjoy going back and seeing the students and seeing myself in the students too. You can like sometimes depending on the time of year feel the anxiety of like I don't have an internship yet or I don't have a job yet and I'm

30:49Maggie Pugel: like now just like that person that's like it'll all work out. It'll work out.

30:53Cass Ziebel: They're like how do you know? We know because you're smart. Yeah what's meant to be will be and you will figure this out. You're a hard worker. Yeah.

31:00Maggie Pugel: Which is all true. All true. Yes.

31:03Cass Ziebel: So I'd love to ask you a question. Yes. um what have you found so inspiring about being at parker gale and what what do you really like about being here in particular and doing the podcast and yeah we do a podcast crazy yeah

31:19Maggie Pugel: i would say um what i like about being at a really small firm and especially this culture because I think those two things actually lead to this a similar thing which is it's very entrepreneurial and it's very kind of like make of it what you will and similar to like I guess like adjacent to like your earlier points about having a really good mentor of somebody who like believes in you and gives you space I feel like I feel that energy around here a lot it's Great. Partially because everybody kind of has to wear a lot of hats because we are a small firm. And so you want to do the podcast? Go for it.

32:08Maggie Pugel: Like, do you want to go spend time trying out a new thing at one of our companies? Like, obviously, there's like a communication part of that. And you're not just tinkering on your own to abandon. But I think we, I love working at a place that just supports this idea that like you could just try things and go for it. There's definitely like more of that entrepreneurial mindset. Like a scrappiness? Very scrappy. Scrappy, yeah. And I think in a way that's like scrappy, but like with taste. I feel like there's, you know, we try to do a lot. like we put a lot on ourselves I've been joking recently that between like AI podcast sub stack trying to create content trying to be out a little bit more on LinkedIn and like our day jobs we all are like doing three jobs right now um and to have the space to like explore and try things out um is it makes me excited about coming into work every day because I get to try all sorts of stuff It's great.

33:18Maggie Pugel: Well, this was awesome. This was so fun. Thank you for coming in and doing this.

33:22Cass Ziebel: I would have only done this for you just to be very clear, which I'm so excited about.

33:27Maggie Pugel: I emailed was like, Hey, we're trying this new thing. And you were just like, dang it. Okay. Yes. I'm in. Yeah. I had no good reason to say no. So, and this was wonderful. And I, I hope people can hear your story and be encouraged, especially if, Hey, maybe they aren't in private equity. Maybe they're an equity research and like, hey, I get to see somebody who is in my shoes doing something incredible. So awesome. Thank you.

33:53Cass Ziebel: Great to be here.