Parker Gals | Why Private Equity is for Everyone (w/ Jessica Patton, 5th Century Partners)

0:00I just think that private equity is for everyone and should be because that's the opportunity. Consumers are diverse. The world has diverse problems and diverse needs. And like what we're serving is core markets that are our industry. And so I think like both for women and people of diverse like skill sets or diverse backgrounds, like I think it's just in everybody's game now.

0:37Cass: Hello, everyone. We're here at Parker Gale HQ for another episode of Parker Gales. And today I have with me Jessica Patton from Fifth Century Partners. And we're going to go over a little bit of her background, which I could probably spend the entire time going over your background. But I also have a ton of fun questions that I want to ask today. And so, yeah, let's get into it. Perfect. Are you ready? Okay. So you were born and raised in Detroit. You're a Midwesterner. You've kind of toured all over since then. And you graduated from Howard. And then your first role was in New York straight into growth private equity, right?

1:18Cass: Correct. Tell me a little bit about that because that's not very common. People usually what are going into like IB or maybe accounting path or consulting path right out of school or right for a company it is really rare to go straight into some form of PE so like walk me kind of through tell me a little bit about that role and kind of that thought process yeah I did do the traditional path like in school so my sophomore year internship I had a banking internship at Goldman which was awesome and at consumer retail. And then I did an equity research internship the following summer, just to have a contrast of experience.

1:58And so I planned on either just following the traditional like pursuits, right? And then I had this really serendipitous story, whereas in my marketing class, I can still, you have these moments in your life where you just see the whole kind of vision opens You're backing your body there. You're backing your body. I remember I was sitting in this marketing class and then someone was like saying behind me, like, I have this private equity interview, something, something, something. And I was like, what? Yeah. I like run down the Howard is on a hill in part. So I run down the hill to my dorm, like put on my my suit.

2:38And then I run back up to the career center and ask, like, oh, I heard this private equity firm is like here interviewing. And I'm like, yes. they're over here, but they're almost done. I walk over there as a can just get 15 minutes. I have my resume prepared and printed.

2:52Cass: Wow. Back in the day, I feel like this probably doesn't happen anymore. But I'm and then they're like, yeah, we'll just like we have to get on a train, but like we have 10 minutes. And so anyway, that was my entree into getting that interview and then that job. So that's just that's amazing. That's like one of my my favorite stories. I think that like the prepared mind, you're ready, you're ready to like a little bit of hustle, creates success. Like that's one of my feelings about my career holistically, something I've seen compound over the experience. So that was how I got the job. And I think the firm had a relationship with Howard because they had had a Howard grad previously.

3:27So they came back as they were recruiting for analyst associates. You just jumped on it. That's awesome. And yeah, and I had those internships, which I was able to talk about and speak to all the things kind of worked out. So anyway fast forward I was um there and it was just such a good you know holistic experience to really jump into private equity like head first right I was doing it firsthand and what was different about this fund as well as like a first-time fund so also got to be a core part of team one of 10 people that was working with our portfolio companies like you know working across a variety of different things which I think provided more opportunity for me to grow as well

4:06Cass: Yeah, I feel like that like entrepreneurial mindset of a first time fund is something that we kind of will see go throughout your career. Right. And I joined Parker Gale as an associate when it was a first time fund in a similar like moments of like, yeah, there's certain things I remember of like talking to people and hearing about Parker Gale. I like typed it in wrong in Google. I mean, it'd probably be easier to find things today. But I was like, like, I will hunt down this firm and get in front of them one way or another. early internet trials early yes so um that's amazing okay and then we talked about this a little bit but you're so you're in this like great role first time fun you're having fun you're learning a lot and then you had a moment where you're like I I want to get in the action and like yeah test my operation wings yeah it'd been three years into experience and I started thinking about you know what I want to do differently like what what do I want to continue to learn and I think maybe part of the people that were around me or you know folks that were talking to just like always pulling on the thread to figure out what you want to learn like using your 20s as an opportunity to take those risks and try new things not feeling just like super saturated with that one thing and it's honestly really hard because it was like oh everyone's like oh that's so cool you're in private equity you know basically never leave and I was like oh right there's a lot of you know privilege in this job and it looks really good on a resume but I really really enjoy working with the portfolio companies and I wanted to learn more about what it would look like to do that like firsthand versus indirectly and also like I don't know if this is like compounded by like being a woman or like otherwise but I just like felt a little bit on inauthentic like in the role whereas like I am someone who knows limited about anything but I'm gonna help you with your budget yeah it's like I'm actually gonna tell you yeah how to do your budget I'm actually gonna tell you how to do your budget and how to improve it and I'm working with the CFO to do this i'm like yeah maybe i should go get some real experience first and be able to bring that back to both have the empathy and expertise hey i've been in your seat before and yeah i learned that this isn't as easy as it sounds yeah so i was looking for a little bit of that as well if i like wanted to return so for all those reasons uh yeah i think there's like imposter syndrome in your early 20s anyway no matter what yeah but yeah like a hundred percent i think about that sometimes in my role now where I'm like, oh, I've never actually sat in the seat of a lot of these CFOs and I'm calling them.

6:35And you can get past it. And like now you've had the reps and you have the expertise and seeing what success looks like. And you've done that over time that also like builds like the playbook or expertise. But so early in my career, those are the two things that were like really driving me both like an outside interest and doing more and being part of the driver's like seat and maybe just like focusing on one particular type of business as well as like, yeah that imposter syndrome but also like a potential for expertise so totally both were right so ultimately I ended up going to a private equity-backed food service company that had just been invested in by a middle market firm called Vestar yeah it was also New York it's called Roland Foods so I joined their 250 million dollar business so sizable business and then the opportunity felt like really hefty and interesting and complex because it's this

7:24Cass: 80 year old family owned company where I get to have a big business for going from family owned to first. Yeah, it was. Oh man. I didn't realize it was that big. Yeah, it was really big. That's a big change. It was a big change. But what was really drove me to do that besides just like the operating C was like a big change. I knew there'd be complexity, but I also really felt passionate about the person who, who's going to be my manager, the person who I was going to work with like felt like this is going to be a great opportunity for me to operate at scale right and how many times you get to do that again I'm three years out of college like still but saw a substantive opportunity to be able to like work with all of the right people and get really good exposure both on the business side but also from the c-suite side so to continue to develop my like kind of business uh reps okay so you had that experience and then you decided to go take a setback go to business school yes so low-key you went to stanford amazing yes and then what was the thought process when you were at stanford like what were you trying to do what were you trying to do after yeah at stanford well after i had had this like experience both on the investing side and the operating side um that left me with like wanting to explore more and figure out what was the next step i knew i wanted to be in in the ethos of what i was already doing right it was one of those things that I didn't feel like I want to go off and do something you know hugely completely different so I wanted to explore what that would look like and the things that were important to me that I started to learn about myself and knew about myself six years in was like I love building I like being in that seat on small teams like having both the like kind of autonomy but also the latitude and also complexity and a little bit the challenge to be able to operate even though the business that I was at Roland was a large business the seat that I was in had sons of autonomy and still a relatively small team for the size of the business.

9:20So I knew that building was important to me. And I knew I wanted to have some type of more like positive impact. Like and I hadn't really defined that in my like essay, even like business school, like essay I was trying to figure out what exactly that was as part of like why I was applying. But I knew those things like were important and becoming a really good leader was important based on the experiences like that I had, frankly, in my private equity experience. I had less than stellar like leadership in my first role. And then my second role, I saw like a very different side of what leadership could be.

9:52So I wanted to grow as like a leader myself. So all those things, plus like the things you, the trappings of traditional business school, like I wanted to expand my network and my friend group. Totally. You know, take a little bit of time from the rat race. So all those things really attracted me. And be in sunshine, which does help.

10:09Cass: And being in the sunshine, all the things. Yeah. I always think it's funny. like I remember applying to business schools and you have to like kind of toe the line between like I really know what I want to do so like pick me yeah but I also am exploring yeah I'm also exploring yeah I had a very explicit essay like I could I mean I wrote the essay so many times I could probably like write it today yeah like almost yeah some of the same words again very real experience in terms of remembering exactly what it was like to be in that seat yeah I know what coffee shop I was in most of the time yes exactly like you you were in your body you knew when you got your last GMAT score you know where you were like yes yes there's a GMAT score anyway um yeah I had a whole story and I thought like frankly I thought maybe I'll just go earlier maybe I'll just like build a company and like find something that I want to do so that was what I like sought out or started like in terms of doing to expedite this story like I went to business school with those assumptions and I kind of tested that out like the first year but what I found is that there wasn't a problem that I felt like I wanted to be maniacally focused on that's the part I didn't fully like appreciate about entrepreneurship you're gonna be like I want to solve this one thing and it can be a big thing but I want to be really focused on this every single day for the next 10 years about it yes like no I don't actually don't think like I I love range I think I am a generalist at heart like I love a little bit of like you know dabbling in this and dabbling in that like and that complexity in that way like really like drives me so I learned a lot about myself and I think people everyone knew about this of me but I had to figure it out I know it is funny too when you say something like you've decided something in your career like oh I actually don't really want to do that and people from the outside are like well obviously and you're like well could you could like give me a heads up no it wouldn't have worked I'm stubborn they're like Jessica you're a finance person I'm like no I'm not like yes you are like oh yeah oh yeah you're like I finance isn't as cool as I want to be I want to do other things yeah no but I'll accept it just kept pulling you back kept pulling me back so in another serendipitous moment in my career I had connected with a professor Wallace at Stanford now when you say serendipitous do you just mean like you just went out and did something because I feel like serendipity is in your favor however it does feel like you are like Like it was serendipitous.

12:34Cass: I like went out of my way and did this amazing thing. Yes, you're right, right. It's intentional, but still serendipitous in the way it works out. How about that? Yeah, maybe I shouldn't always label it serendipity. But I do think like things come up when you're planting seeds. I'm a seed planter. So I do a lot of like a lot of seed planting. Maybe one, I don't know. Not that many always like come to fruition, but I'm constantly like putting in like little like things just to see. and and I guess somewhat intentionally sometimes and always like not like intentionally I was intentionally building connections with professors like I would send emails out to be like I really enjoyed like what you said at this class or just being a thoughtful like connector I thought that was like intentional and strategic and I think also like professors just don't get any love I actually yeah it is like I think people forget about the networking people go to business school to network yeah and they forget about the networking with the professors who really are there because like they want to help students exactly so I was intentional in that way and so long story short this professor connected me into Andreessen and she was like I like I really see an opportunity for you here based on the story you told me about your experiences but also like what you'd like to see going forward and this fund that I started working for had this like entrepreneurial element to it because it was a new fund within the existing Andreessen set of funds and it had an impact angle.

13:59So I ended up working at Andreessen. Yeah, pull me back. Pulling me back. I meant to be there. And after I started Andreessen, I was just like, I accept my fate. So yeah, I started working there part-time during school in my second year and then was able to parlay that into a full-time opportunity, which was also really cool because I was able to make a role rather than take a role, which is I think one of the cool things that business school can do for you.

14:25Cass: Yep. So then you're there in that role. Two years. Okay. For two years. And then like the entrepreneurial itch in you is like, yeah, it's like, and I'm sure you're planting seeds. So what are you? Planting seeds for sure. Yes. So how did fifth century partners come to be? Yeah. That was my next role. So it's planting seeds, thinking about the next thing. One thing that like maybe is a core tenant of like my experiences. I've got, I'm always learning about myself. I'm always figuring it out and trying to hone in on like, 20s was just like to like not tooling around but it was exploring right it was just figuring out what what it is like as I got into my 30s like post business school I wanted to like kind of be a little bit more focused yeah um and I'm not yet 40 but like as I'm quickly approaching 40 it's like you are doing you know you are fully very intentional you're very immersed and you're just digging digging deep so as I was approaching or it's a little over um 30 and in this role thinking okay i've learned a lot i really like this purpose-driven component of finance i want to continue to pull on that theme in the next role i want to be more slightly more in a builder's like seat loved andreason and the work that they're doing um there but that was less inherent it's still part of a bigger yeah but you get the benefit of seeing a bigger thing and like got the benefit of process yeah that in like the scale of that exactly it's like what do i want to take that I learned from that and bring it over to yes something small I started exploring and talking to people about different opportunities I think like especially post business school for me a lot of the building was not necessarily taking a role that's like posted online but trying to configure and figure out where there is opportunity that aligns um so this was truly serendipitously sure well I'll be the judge of that in like two minutes okay great you tell me so it uh uh it came up a friend gave me a call um like oh this well first started with a potential what became our anchor investor like trying to um figure out a strategy i think at first they were looking for someone to bring on to their their fund um so i was thinking okay hey pick up the phone i'll take the call like i'm always happy to help like i think one of the cool things about being in finance is you kind of tend to know a lot of people through different like ways both on the either on the founder side or some LPs or operators, whatever.

16:52We just have broad.

16:53Cass: Yeah, there's like a lot of different audiences. A lot of different audiences. And I try to be like a good connector and like operate in that like super connector seat at times. I was like, I can I will definitely take the call. Sound interesting. Happy to connect. Anyway, long story short, that call became our anchor investor. And then I was having some calls with like prior friends, Marcus and Bruce. they were thinking about this fund. So the two things really like came together, both this investor, this family office that's based here, that became our anchor. And then those like relationships with Marcus and Bruce, who were thinking, and Bruce had had this like thesis for a while about building a purpose-driven fund.

17:34It just felt like he was at the point of his career in terms of like wanting to do that. Marcus had built this really amazing company that he exited a couple of years ago called Amitros and he sold that to Webster Bank. but had like a core operator experience as well as like finance DNA had a mix of a variety of things plus this more impact driven experience at Andreessen and so we're like I think I think we can do this yeah I think we make a good team um to go out and do this the opportunity is there like for us in the market and I'll talk about like what what it is that we actually so it's just the three of you just the three of us yeah you've had an anchor investor at an anchor investor and then

18:12Cass: And when did you decide, like, because you're all doing other things. Yeah, we're all doing other things. When did you decide, like, let's just do it. And you're living, where are you living? I was living in the Bay at the time. My husband and I bought a house. And then when this all started to come together. You just bought a house. We had just bought a house. And then we were like, I was like, well, I think we're moving to Chicago. Yeah. We decided together that this is something that we would do. Of course, every decision isn't just me. I'm, you know, connected at this at this point. And so, yeah, we we bought a house in the Bay.

18:46We end up living there for like eight months and then left.

18:50Cass: Oh, my gosh. It worked out. It worked out. What was that moment where you're just like, OK, we're ready. Like, we're going to do it. We're going to get an office. Did you have an office? We didn't have an office. We didn't have anything. Like I pull up the deck that like we made and we were emailing off of Gmail emails to people. It was like very, we were quickly building, I guess it was a traditional entrepreneur. Yeah. Like, let's get our act together. Let's do all of the things and really quick. So it was really that, that nudge. Once we had the anchor investment, which was relatively substantive, it was like, okay, we have both this and we have, we can, we can pay our salaries.

19:29We can pay our salaries and we have the anchor to start to build off. And we have, and we have the deck.

19:36Cass: We have the deck. and we need to spend our time full time on this we need to spend our time full time on like building this out and seeing it so one way plane ticket to chicago yeah one way plane ticket to chicago slightly de-risk like work so we just yeah kind of got to work like jumped off the deep end okay so now tell me about so you've been at fifth century partners now for since jan 2021 or December I think the the official day is December 20th 2020. That's our official like inception date yeah so um and we were doing we were working prior to that but like that's like our starting point day so um you know to date we're what five and a half years like into this.

20:20Cass: And you just closed fund two. Yeah fund two which is 276 million. Congratulations. Thanks. That's awesome. Yes. And how many people so you started with three how many people are at your firm now? we have 15 people wow yeah that's huge yeah it's huge um okay so what does fifth century partners what are you all focused on investing in you've like kind of alluded to this like we had an anchor investor i came from kind of impact investing yeah what what's your what kind of businesses are you investing in um for all the founders out there or people that are going to sell to you you You can like whatever.

20:57Exactly. So we're a lower middle market private equity firm. Lower middle market for us, we call it three, four of EBITDA to 15 of EBITDA. And the focus really is health care and business services for us. We generally seek to take control stakes in those companies and really like to have management involved in rollover and participate. These are all first institutional capital businesses. So we're the first capital going in. and I'd like to say that we're ushering the next era of growth I think is really exciting time and for many people that looks different for some that can say you know I've been doing this for 20-30 years and I'm looking for a partner to help me to take a slight step back I don't want to be in that seat that's driving high yeah yeah driving high octane like consistently but I want to you know be the chairman or I want to take part and some people they say I've been doing this for you know 10-ish years like I think I see a lot of opportunity on the horizon I want to continue to take a thoughtful like part in it but I want a partner that can help me scale faster so we partner with a variety of like founders that have different um stories and perspectives but

22:04Cass: that like next era of growth is obviously the common theme yeah okay I I wanted to take the time to do that because I think your story and I've learned so many things um and I've learned a new definition of serendipity. So thank you for that. Serendipity just means working your butt off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit. Now we're going to go to our IOI section, our indication of interests, just to like kind of get to know you as a person outside of your incredible work history, right? So can you tell me what your favorite comfort show is? Definitely, I'd say sex in the city it's like the show that i put on most consistently is like i just want to watch 20 whatever 25 minute show where i can just in the background in the background and judge or just like watch it a palate cleanser oh i love that a palate cleanser full yeah i guess that is a good question like are you i'm i'm actually rarely an in the background person are you like i'm just going to commit to the just like sit down look at the big screen not look at my small screen not look at my medium screen.

23:12I will look at the small screen because that's the quickest transition. I find like if I'm going to have 20 minutes, I got to like take it very. It's like, oh, my kids are out of bed. Yeah. I'm going to watch this for 20 minutes and then I'm going to do this like next thing. I'm going to get back to work or whatever it is. I'm going to do this thing. So if I'm going to watch something, but I do try to like watch it. I'm not going to do something else while watching it. I'm not a good multitasker.

23:32Cass: No, I'm a horrible multitasker. Yeah. I'm a solo. So yeah, so sole focus. Like if you get the kids to bed by a certain time and all is going smoothly and you get an opportunity, like dishes don't have to be done. Somebody doesn't have to do work. You're like, oh, my gosh, can we watch a show tonight? It's like the biggest treat of all time. And we will like death stare at each other. If you dare pick up the phone during the show, if you ask me a question about what's going on because you're not paying attention is just like. No. Yeah. My husband and I occupy different cushions. He's like playing guitar or doing something on his laptop.

24:03he's a cereal multitasker and I am like I'm like I can only do this one task but yeah I just gotta

24:09Cass: I just want to watch the show just want to watch the show yes okay um and then what's something that you can cook are you the chef in your household we share the chef responsibility equal equal chefing and you don't have to look at a recipe but like this is like a go-to I'd say it's probably like spaghetti and meatballs like I'm not making the spaghetti freshly but not not that type of person but you know i can i can do a little sauce i appreciate a fresh pasta however i appreciate a fresh pasta but i will make the sauce like from scratch and then i'll do the the meatball situation i would do spaghetti meatballs but like i would totally cheat definitely gonna be from a you know the pot the sauce is already made the meatballs are frozen so that's still spitting meatballs I take on probably half of the chef responsibilities of the week but I am like a I am a combining of the ingredients person and like my husband is the like he's gonna go down a rabbit hole of exactly what recipe and like get really into a certain type of cooking for a while and make stuff from scratch recipe book kind of guy yes and I appreciate that Like it's good, but it's not me.

25:26Cass: It's not me. But I would eat your spaghetti meatballs. That sounds amazing. Okay. So what is your perfect Saturday? Perfect Saturday, you know, hopefully closely summertime. Yeah. I get eight hours of sleep. That has to start with like. That's so true. That's like an overlooked detail. I like that. That's good. Like I wake up rested. Rested. You're not like behind. You're not like chugging cold brews. She gets through. second call Bruce it was uninterrupted on an uninterrupted eight hours of sleep yes crucial crucial like definitely you can tell where where the where I live in the yeah in an interrupted sleep yeah um so that's the that's number one um you're like honestly after that totally fine yeah everything I just want that give me some water no and then maybe um maybe a farmer's market like morning little like you know get outdoors enjoy the sun get outdoors enjoy maybe a walk after that sometime with the kids in the park yeah if it's really good I guess like I probably get a couple minutes to read a book and then like maybe dinner with friends like oh yeah just like a like a not too intense get some time out yes like you said I'm a plant yeah yeah a plant just just Just nourish me throughout the day with sunlight, nutrition.

26:54I'll be good.

26:55Cass: I'm sold on this vision. Yeah, I feel like it is nice. A lot of the answers to this question are some version of like also just like friends. It's like kind of isolating years of like heavy working and kids and everything. Like being able to like be with your friends is just such a nice, almost like too rare for me anyway, like to like just make sure that happens on like a weekend. Same. It's such a treasure when it happens. Yep. I love that. Okay. And now we're going to pivot back towards your career. We kind of talked about this a little bit, but like, so you hear you're in, you're at Howard and you overhear somebody saying, talking about private equity.

27:39Cass: And you're like, ears perk up. You're like, I'm ready to go. What drew you? What was the initial draw of like, this is something that I would want to do? I would first frankly the investment banking like uh kind of strategies all like I mean you're working in finance you have opportunity to make money and that was like that was important to me I wanted something a career that would provide and I think that's important I feel like it it is overlooked or maybe it could be overlooked where people go into this career because part of it is like we have an opportunity and for me like it's a deeper it's not just about like money gathering but it's about creating generational wealth like it's about um opportunity and access so that was important and i just also see saw opportunity like within like the the space and the field to like learn and work on like complex like interesting like kind of problems consistently so like i think the opportunity on both ends to me was was really interesting and i i think a lot of people like let's say like when i first uh started out at college like obviously didn't have the context of private equity and probably even before I started my job like I remember like studying and understanding the structure of private equity or like looking at like LPs, GPs, this structure, these entities and like how it works.

28:53I still didn't fully understand things until I was like in the work but it's something that started to click and make sense as I continued to do it and it was interesting because of all the different stakeholders we're working with and working with the you know portfolio it's just that that strategy became more interesting as I continued to do it but those are the early like uh reasons that I I like that I do like that you say like

29:20Cass: hey I want to make good money too yeah and I think that is something that is in the back of a lot of people's mind who pursue the career when they don't they almost like don't want to say that for some reason and I'm like yeah yeah you're not going to put in some of these hours and some of these weeks and go through investment banking in your career and all these things if like that wasn't something that is going to drive you forward right like and i think it's okay to like talk about like money we are we are working yes with with money our investors like give us money to give them a return right we hope to make a significant return or like have a second bite of the apple for um our founders and we give them liquidity to to exit when you're in the job yeah you should be talking about money all the time so it's all it's all connected to this thing and i don't think money has to be like some like evil steward actually think it's like has a significant like impact especially when we can create like wins for everyone around and then that's also like something that really like excites me about the work that we do because at the end of the day our lps like who invested in us who believed in the strategy like our focus like we'll achieve that return our portfolio leaders will get liquidity in the beginning and hopefully even more significant liquidity on the back end and like our team gets to participate in the wins for the work that they've done.

30:35And like that just like really lights me up because you have a win on all different sides. And you can continue to, we haven't talked about this, but like my thesis about like private equity and the reason why I'm like actually really excited is because you are hopefully also creating those opportunities along like the investment continuum.

30:53Cass: Right. So when we make the investment, we're improving benefits for employees. Like we're like making sure that management incentive program is extending beyond just like one or two people is going to others. So that opportunity to have this like, you know, downfall, like impact, diversifying boards. That's another point where, you know, you're bringing returns to other people. So like, that's what like, if there's one like thing where I feel like private equity can be a catalyst for change, like that's like how I see the model and all those people that we bring alongside us from each part of that stakeholder set is like the really exciting part so I feel the same way I feel like a lot of people when they hear the words private equity assume that it's just like very like selfish or like evil or you know what other connotation around it right and I'm a pretty value driven person and I like feel like I get to live out a lot of my values by saying like no we have a minimum like we're improving benefits and we're very purposefully hopefully making the lives of every employee that we employ better for being a Parker Gale company yeah right so I I think it gets a bad rap which we can talk about but um I I completely wholeheartedly agree with that take and I think but you have to be intentional about it because I think there are plenty of people who they hear that and they're like that's lovely but you actually have to go change the benefits and you have to go do that but that's the work yeah where don't you do the work yeah totally and then as we think about like so you've had very interesting like purposeful twists and turns in your career right and you are planting seeds you're very purposeful about all of your networking as you think about that kind of who in your career has shaped you the most and how my traditional one is the the boss that I had at um Roland the the P back food service company and I think that was just such a big lift of my career because there's just so much autonomy provided to me like in like weighty work to the point that I was like managing somewhat of a P &L and that was scary to me yeah Like your mid 20s.

33:15Cass: Yeah, that's a lot. It was. It was such a it was such a good push for me. Like I experienced a lot of growth like from that because able to like figure out a lot of complexity. And it was like it was nuanced. The complexity that I figured out were both was both like on the like how to do this from a, you know, Excel standpoint, you know, modeling things out. But also from a perspective of talking to people. Yeah. Of espousing a change management and getting things done on like the like the operating level. So I learn so much from that experience and that like compounds like for me as I think about like other things.

33:52And then the other one that's my untraditional one is probably my husband. Yeah. My husband, Andrew, is just like provided or been that person. If I say, hey, I want to do this, you know, what are your thoughts? He doesn't hold anything back. And I think you always need someone there that like while he's my. He's going to be completely honest. me and all these things but he loves me he's gonna be like nope I think they're playing this small or you're missing this piece or I'm really gonna push or push back on you on this and that's been really important in my career and I can think of like multiple moments but especially in business school is like kind of you know trying on things and you know talking about certain things he's like no you know that's interesting but I don't think that you're you're you know you're you're playing in the you're playing up your opportunity or uh in every business school moment like there is a moment where I'm like this is after my first semester or first quarter I guess at GSB I was like oh my god I'm so overwhelmed I don't think you know I don't know I'm gonna make it he's like okay let's let's get up yeah and you know let's you know work through this so yeah definitely

35:03Cass: It sounds like the theme I'm hearing as you're talking about him is he's very, it's not like he's saying like poo poo no like you can't do that. He's saying like, he's saying like, no think bigger. Yeah, no, no, do more. No, think bigger. Yeah, do more. I know you do. You know, you have more. Yeah, you have other things that you can do. But yeah, play up. Like, yeah, you could do this role. You could do this thing. But like, what's like the next step from this and you need, you need those like folks like in your life for sure. It's the same as like you wish and think for your kids or that you were told when you were a kid, like you can be anything you want to be when you grow up.

35:41Cass: And I feel like there was a time in my life when I was like so narrowly focused on like a career path that I didn't really think about that. And like I'm like re-approaching and re-emerging and feels like your husband has this for you in spades of like I could I could do all sorts of things. and like let me like widen that scope instead of narrowly focusing on like this is what other people do or this is the traditional path right yeah it's not like it's not what you can do it's like maybe what you have the opportunity you know to do and not following like the you know widget factory of like oh you know first you go to this and then you go to that it's like well you know what am I best positioned to do what's unique about me what am I bringing to the experience and then how can I like not only like do the job but punctuate with that with something right you know different which I think like shout out to this podcast I think is a you know opportunity or awesome you know a space to be doing something that's like a little bit different and I think such an an awesome like opportunity for for you guys it's been fun but it has been it's like a totally different skill set that I'm like starting to like get muscles in but like it's yeah I think this podcast has been part of that like like my brain being like oh I can do that yeah that's opportunity like it's yeah over there yeah it's cool what's something yeah speaking along those lines of like that you figured out recently that you kind of wish you knew before like something like that you're just like oh I never thought of that or I never knew that or like in that like always learning you're always there's always something new to know I think asking for help is really important.

37:20I think before I thought of it as like a weakness, like I shouldn't ask for help, I should just figure this out. I'm always on that autopilot, but I actually think it can be like a super strength, a superpower. And there's some people who I've seen who are consistently kind of calling around and pulling people and they figure things out that way. That's just how they interpret the world. I'm not one of those interpreters, but I do think there's an opportunity or there has been an opportunity in my career to like move so instead of going and being like i spent 20 hours you know do you know doing research and like figuring this out and like noodling like okay well i spent an hour thinking about this i put my thoughts together and then i went to like three people who i thought could be additive and then bounced it against them and then figured it out and then they shaped that and they shaped however many hours where i was exactly and i was a totally different frame and then that kind of like was a an order of magnitude you know bigger you just like you just jumped to another like planet because you had those conversations and that's what I've found and maybe like it took me maybe post like business school so in my 30s to like figure out like oh I could do this I could learn from people and now I feel like it's actually almost a direct way I learned like I figure like the things that are like on the internet or in other places it's like that's that that's old information a lot of the like newer information kind of exists in people's minds it's happening right now and even if i called you cast and you're like well i don't know anything about that but i have a friend who knows something about that let me connect you so that's like that's my planting seeds that's the seeds that have continued to those seeds grow faster because you get the right

38:55Cass: nutrition for them because you're like oh okay like let me try this out so that that's really worked that's great advice um and then what are you most interested in or excited about right now maybe try it but i'd say ai it's like try it but it's like for a reason right yeah i just think that it has a opportunity to like help us to um empower and do bigger things and focus on bigger problems versus traditionally very administrative like heavy things like there's just so many things i can think about that i did like early in my career that is like it just took so much longer than like it had to take like and now you know with a click or a button you can can do those things and just focusing on bigger problems not not i guess when i talk about like ai it's not like it's not necessarily just like using clod or like using something because i feel like that's going to become the new version of the internet which is like oh how do i query yeah where the best you know doctor for my you know son is like that that's like kind of table stakes but more so the opportunity for us to create like very specific things to the firm and like our competitive advantage and that that like add a lot of value to that competitive advantage where we wouldn't have been able to like have that before because like now we can afford software that's distinct for our firm or for our portfolio companies so that's like the level that like i'm excited about yeah got it so it's not even just like the routine like let me get this administrative stuff off the plate.

40:27Cass: It's also like, what's that next level? Exactly, what's the next level? How do we build on to things that we know are competitive advantage? Yeah, I love that. What is a commonly held belief that people tend to have about private equity that you would disagree with? I think that it's like this is for, private equity is for everyone and what I mean by that is I do think that private equity has been And like it looks like white men if you like think about like private equity in the common, I don't know, perception of like what if you just didn't know anything, you're like it's white guys investing in whatever.

41:05I just think that private equity is for everyone and should be because that's the opportunity. Consumers are diverse. The world has diverse problems and diverse needs. And like what we're serving is core markets that are our industry. And so I think like both for women and people of diverse like skill sets or diverse backgrounds, like I think it's just in everybody's game. Now, is it democratized to have like access? We could have a whole podcast about accessing private equity and how you get in. That is the reason for these types of things, right?

41:40Cass: Is like literally right now, like to be on a podcast is to help make it. Hey, YouTube is for everyone. Yes, exactly. Information is for everyone. Yes. Yeah. No, I agree. I don't think it's a hot take, but I do think it's distinguished because of what private equity has continued to, you know, perpetuate in terms of perceptions. And we've talked a lot about this on this conversation is just like changing the perception of like what private equity like can be. And I think it just takes some like change. It takes firms like Parker Gale, it takes firms like 5CP, it takes firms to continue to distill and do things differently and do hard work, too.

42:17to like improve our portfolio companies, improve our firms.

42:21Cass: Still gotta hit the returns. Still gotta, yeah. Yeah, do all of that. Doing the hard work, but also creating like shifts. And so that hopefully as generations like continue, we can be doing something different here. Yeah, agreed. Okay, on that high note, which I love, we're gonna wrap up with the closing call. So you mentioned in your perfect Saturday, you'd get a couple minutes to read. what did what's your uh best book that you've read like in the past year i read i do a lot of audiobooks so yes not many common common theme on the podcast so far is we're all doing audiobooks all doing audiobooks so i read like three books recently they were all kind of similar and unintentionally one was strangers by bell burden yeah um awake by jen um i can't remember and then Yesteryear and I can't remember the author's name of that one but these are all interesting stories because they're about like women Awake is non-fiction and Bell Burden's book is non-fiction the other one's like fiction but I think they are all coming of age like stories for people that are like our age and maybe a little older but like somewhere in the middle like part of their life and they're all different vantage points of things but they were all like really interesting to me because it's rethinking like in a sense like what life like looks like for women and I think there's so much obviously in the market and the political landscape etc and just in continuing like changing paradigms of what like being a woman looks like and there's like three different unique points about like what it takes and like how we should like recapture that so they're all really interesting I'm still kind of like thinking through and taking in um taking in those points but if there was one I would point to I'd say like awake was really um an interesting one in terms of her interpretation of like how to how to improve like herself how to like take ownership and especially in the age of I'm in the age of like super young kids where it feels like sometimes I'm in the back seat like the kids are in the front seat yeah trying to take up a little bit more time you should you should be in the front seat and driving that's what there's some of these books it's like okay i gotta get back in in the front seat because that's where i'm gonna be the best version of myself which is the best mom you know the best wife the best md all of those things like showing up for people means like continuing to put myself first um okay so i will follow up when i've Probably listened to all of those.

44:59Cass: I have like my bedside book that like very slowly I get through because I only do a couple pages at a time. But yeah, Commute, like audio books is like great combination. Okay, what is your go-to karaoke song? Go-to karaoke. I have to say Independent Women by Destiny's Child. Nice. Nice. That's a good one. it's a good thing to connect yes yes yes um and then if you weren't in private equity if you like I feel like there are so many ways that you could take this I'm so curious if you weren't in private equity what would you be doing instead there there are so many like answers and I like I feel like this is always a good um question but I really do think the answer continues to build on the things that like I like which is like I love building like I love creating some type of positive like impact even if that's like small in the world and I love like working um with teams and people and so I really do think that would be like a COO or something of a company that's like venture or private equity backed because I'd be in the ecosystem I'm not leaving yeah I mean I've thought about this a bunch and I'm just like this is me like I'm either I'm on in this on this side or the other side doing I'm in this very similar thing yeah like building like infrastructure that's like sustainable working with teens like you know that just just kind of doing it differently so yeah I think I'm consistent like I'm gonna consistently me that's great that's amazing a lot of serendipity yeah i'm not i'm not gonna like go be a yoga teacher at a in bali even though that sounds cool there are things that i want to do for like a day or two there are things that i well listen i like to show up to the yoga class yes i like to go to the coffee shop yeah but like to actually run the coffee shop and to check inventories levels and to manage it every day and to hire people for the coffee yeah exactly or it's like um i could do that for a couple of days But when I actually think deeply about like ruin this thing that like, like I went to, it was like relaxing.

47:14The reason why I love it is because I do those other things. And then when I come back to it, even though one of my dreams is to like own a coffee shop, but not to run it.

47:21Cass: Yeah. To be able to visit it. And like everybody knows your name. Yeah, everybody knows your name. And it is community. And then in my vision, it's like it's almost a nonprofit. It just runs. It just runs as a break even thing. It's not about making money. So I will visit that coffee shop. Yes, please do. I'll let you know when I started in 20 years. Just start planting seeds. Let me know. Give me a heads up. Yeah, I will. Keep it in Chicago, please. We'll be in Chicago. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This was like, I feel like the time flew by. I feel like I leave extremely inspired and like have a lot of great like ideas and inspiration coming from just being able to sit down and chat with you for a while.

48:03Cass: Really appreciate it. Thanks, Cass.

48:07Thank you.