Ep. 139: Ian Ross, Concentric Equity Partners | Investing Outside the Fund Cycle and Feeding Winners

0:00Ian Ross: Hey everybody, before we get started with today's episode, I want to take an opportunity to tell you about my new book, AI Marketing Blueprint. It just hit number one bestseller status across multiple categories on Amazon, and it walks you through a proven framework that we are taking our clients through here at How to SaaS and how to stay relevant and visible in a world with AI platforms. One of the biggest problems that we have seen across clients and companies is that the traditional channels that they relied on, like paid search or SEO, have declined significantly or are getting more expensive and competitive.

0:34Ian Ross: The reason for this is that a lot of buyers are starting to self-educate themselves and research on AI platforms. So a lot of that volume that was previously going to those channels is now moving to these new AI platforms. So to stay relevant, the book walks you through seven new rules that companies in all kinds of verticals and industries need to consider so that they can continue growing their pipeline and revenue and ultimately their enterprise value. So if this applies to your business or one of the companies that you've invested in, I definitely recommend that you pick up a copy. It's available on Amazon, on Apple Books, on Barnes and Noble, and even share it with your teams.

1:10Ian Ross: Grab a bunch of copies so that you can kind of consume the content together and start to apply it to your business. And with that said, let's move on to the episode. Welcome to the Private Equity Value Creation Podcast, where we interview leading investors, operators, bankers, and advisors to help you answer one question. How do we increase the enterprise value of our companies? My name is Shiv Narayanan, and each episode, I will dive deep with a guest to help you become a better value creator and capital allocator. So with that said, let's jump right in and let's get started with today's episode.

1:46Ian Ross: My guest today is Ian Ross, and he is a partner at Concentric Equity Partners. And what I really enjoyed about this episode is that Concentric is more of a hybrid between a family office and a traditional private equity firm. And that allows them to behave quite differently than a PE firm that has LPs, that has the pressures of returning the fund. And that leads to different decision making on the side of investments that Concentric makes. And Ian walks us through their approach, their philosophy, and how they vet investments, how they support their management teams, and how they actually look at enterprise value creation, which in my opinion is very different than a lot of the PEP investors and operating partners that have been on the podcast.

2:26Ian Ross: And so I think there's a lot to learn from this model because by having the family office component, Concentric almost has this luxury of being more patient with their capital and making more strategic bets and uncovering more opportunities. And there's a lot of great lessons that Ian shares from their journey and just their overall philosophy. And I learned a ton from it, and I'm sure you will as well. And so with that said, I'll leave you to it. Enjoy the episode.

2:57Ian Ross: All right, Ian, welcome to the show. How's it going? It's great. Thanks for having me. Yeah, excited to have you on. So why don't we start with your background and your role in Concentric, and then let's go from there. Sure. So I joined Concentric 20 years ago, and I'm one of the partners, and I'm the president of the holding company. But my background has really been all around the middle market. I started as a lender with GE Capital. I've been an investment banker, and this is my second private equity firm in my career. Awesome. And talk about what you guys are focused on as an investment firm.

3:32Ian Ross: What types of deals are you looking for? How are you guys structured? Sure. You know, our focus is really around backing entrepreneurs that we think have the potential to really grow their business and grow and create equity value over time. How that looks is a big focus on services, business, financial and consumer services, but also some niche manufacturing and areas where we think there's value that can be created. Got it. And one of the things that makes you guys unique is that you almost are like a hybrid between a family office and a private equity firm. Can you explain that for the audience as well?

4:08Sure. Yeah, it's a differentiator in today's market. You know, the family office was started 30 years ago by the patriarch who passed away a number of years ago. But he and his daughter created it as their own family office. And really, they just wanted to do investments and back people. And so they really started backing private equity firms as they were being created through the 90s and 2000s. And then around the mid-2000s, they decided they really wanted to create their own team inside the family office to do deals on the family's account and collectively on all of our accounts. And so that's really when we put the strategy together to focus on doing those lower middle market private equity deals.

4:53And it really grew up organically. And so as the family's wealth grew, certainly as the investments did well, and then added in family office services along the way to make sure to keep track of their records and books and liquidity and all of the things that they come along with the family office.

5:10Ian Ross: Can you expand on that? Like, help us understand, like, let's say a regular private equity firm and how they do business where they're raising funds and they have to deploy and kind of exit the fund by a certain point in time. Is that how you guys work? or does the family office component change how you guys look at investments or how you deploy capital? Yeah, it does change it in a pretty important way. I mean, private equity firms are great business models, and there's lots of very successful people that have built terrific private equity firms. But one of the challenges with that model is it's really all about the fund.

5:44So everything is kind of focused around what's the best thing for the LPs, How do you maximize your MOIC and deals in the fund? There's a lot of pressure to get early wins in a fund so that you can post those wins, which will give you the credibility you need to raise the next fund. And what ends up happening is that you tend to sell your best companies early when you can get to two, three, four times your investor's money. and you tend to hold on to maybe the less than best companies longer because you're trying to work with them and make them better to get to an exit. And so the dynamic is that you kind of shortchange a little bit of your upside based on the fun timeline cycle.

6:32And so how that looks for us is we wanted to create a model that could basically do the opposite of that and wanted it to be entrepreneurial, wanted it to be focused around backing and creating businesses. And so our model is different. Each deal is a little bit of its own entity in terms of the legal structure. But more importantly, it allows us to invest capital into a business. And then as the business is doing well, we have a feed the winner strategy. So we can keep putting in another series, another series, double, triple down on that money so that we're able to be with the business much longer and we're able to be a part of that growth story.

7:14Ian Ross: Yeah, that is definitely different in the sense that like this doubling down on winners that sometimes because LPs are asking for their capital to be returned and you kind of need to return the fund, a lot of firms aren't able to do. But then how does that, what does that look like for you guys returning your own capital? Like, are you aiming for certain horizons on which you want to see a return on your invested capital? Like what's the strategy there? Yeah, you know, we like to say that we are long-term oriented and value creation oriented, but we're not patient. So as it relates to us, you know, we want to be a part of really building those companies.

7:54And so we take a fairly active role on the board. We take an active role in, you know, the different sort of strategies that could help to really develop and grow the business. We certainly aren't running the business, but it allows us to take a kind of a longer runway, if you will, on what can happen. You know, we also I mean, all of the non-family members that that really run the investment firm, we invest our own capital alongside it. And so, you know, many of our investment team think about it as like their own family office because they've made an investment into that business and they really want to see it grow.

8:31And so what it does is just allows for longevity in some situations. But I would tell you there's other situations where we've sold a company, you know, two, three, four years after we invested in it just because it was the right thing to do. It was what the management team wanted to do. So it turns the decision from how long to hold a business into, you know, what's the best kind of upside for ourselves and for the management team who we expect to be co-investors and have great alignment in the company. rather than what do we need to do for our fund cycle. And so that's really the differentiators.

9:06We're not selling on a timeline from something else. We're really selling from when we think we get the best return on the company.

9:13Ian Ross: Are you guys deploying capital entirely from your family office or are you taking on debt? Are there actually LPs involved here as well? Our family office, it actually started with three family lines at the first generation. And so we're now on to the second, third and fourth generation. So there's quite a few people that are the clients of the family office, which which kind of look like limited partners. We don't raise third party capital. And so, you know, we're not a registered investment advisor. And so we're not soliciting or trying to attract third party capital. And so we're able to kind of do, you know, do it how we think it should be done in terms of the investment strategy.

9:57but it looks similar to that.

10:00Ian Ross: Got it. How much does that influence decision-making? Because I'm assuming a lot of these people are like co-investing in these vehicles or pulling capital together to deploy into these types of assets. So like, do you not feel pressure in those situations similar to let's say a private equity firm would to return the fund, or is it different? Well, you know, so our private equity firm is fully integrated with our family office operations. So within the family office, we've got a team of financial advisors who are working with each of those family members on an advisory capacity and meeting with them, you know, two, three, four times a year officially, but then in contact with them regularly about how things are going.

10:42And so what we've really built is a, you think about the investment business as being a little bit like the family business. And so many of the family members, they love hearing about the deals, what's happening with this company or that company. We hold an annual meeting every year where we'll invite some of our portfolio company CEOs to come talk to and present to our family member investors. And so we treat them, we treat it like a professional investment firm in the sense that, you know, people are LPs, but they're not active in the business. So they kind of view it a little bit as their own family business.

11:22Ian Ross: How do you look at, and then the reason I asked that is I'm curious about like how you're structuring deals because you have these investors, but then at the same time, it's family office is the one that's really backing these businesses. And then what about debt on these companies and how do you look at financial engineering or just the deal structure to make the economics work for you to generate the type of return that you'd want? Sure. Yeah. I mean, we're, you know, we're out in the marketplace trying to build companies just like many private equity firms and others are. So we look at it from the perspective of starting small.

11:58So many of the deals that we do will be on the smaller end of what a lower rental market private equity firm might invest in 10, 20, you know, 30 million of revenue, you know, somewhere between zero and a couple million of EBITDA. And we're really looking to kind of develop a strategy to build those companies. So in the beginning, we tend to have very little debt because debt, I mean, it certainly magnifies your return on the upside, but it also magnifies your return on the downside. And smaller companies that are really working to grow and develop can't really withstand a lot of debt. And so from a kind of capital perspective, we're generally big equity investors in the beginning.

12:39But then as those companies grow and develop, we do implement and use debt to help them finance their growth. And so if we have very good alignment with the management team that owns a significant piece of the company, we'll say, hey, it probably makes sense to use some debt to go fund acquisitions and other things that we're looking to do from a growth perspective. And that works out well. So, you know, we have a company today that's north of 100 million of EBITDA that started with zero. And, you know, today,$100 million EBITDA company can support a debt profile that's significantly higher than a$3 million company.

13:18So, you know, we tend to play across the whole spectrum of growth. And we try to use financing in a smart and strategic way without getting too far in front of ourselves. I think if you, you know, get too much leverage on a company too early, it tends to backfire because they just can't, they're not big enough or they don't have enough capacity to support that. So it becomes a game of using the right amount at the right time and then probably in scaling that up over time.

13:46Ian Ross: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I guess, given that you're coming into these companies when they're a little bit on the lower end on the revenue side, are you getting involved with the actual value creation planning and helping them figure out where to scale or invest their capital? Absolutely. So from a value creation perspective, we think about it in really three different ways. So the first and most important is growth. And growth can be either organic growth, which is by far the best, or acquisition growth, which is kind of a close second. And so we spend a lot of time around the growth. We also think about value creation from the perspective of multiple arbitrage, which everyone likes to think about that, and financial leverage.

14:31And so really, those are the three groupings of opportunity. I think on the growth side, we spend a lot of time working with our management teams around your organic growth strategy, whether it's sales and marketing or pricing or looking for new ways to surprise and support your customers. That's really where the heart of lower middle market investing is, is in and around that type of strategy. But we're also quite active on acquisitions. Many of our companies are active acquirers, looking to expand their offerings or their geography through M &A. So we're kind of all over all of those categories.

15:13Ian Ross: And is your approach in those cases to like just back the management teams or are you getting involved in helping them figure out, okay, on the M &A side, here are potential targets that you can go after or organically, here are the levers that you should be pulling. I'm just curious, like the level of operational involvement here. Yeah. I mean, I think a great investor is the answer to that is yes. And a great investor shows up, is supportive, tries to ask the one or two or three really helpful, important questions, but also doesn't ask the 50th question that the management team would need dance or in order to go execute on something.

15:53And so we really pride ourselves on being, you know, operationally oriented, which I think most private equity firms today would say that they are. But really for us, it's about like, what's the thing, what's a couple of things that really move the needle on growth? How do we encourage our management teams? Maybe they already know it and we're just helping them refine around the edges or maybe bringing in resources of different people we know or companies or ideas to the table that might help them kind of refine that strategy. You know, sometimes things are new. I mean, you know, one of the big things today is that, you know, the marketing function of many companies is just is changing very rapidly with AI and all the new technology.

16:39Things that used to work two or three years ago, you know, have completely flipped. So we kind of just try to recognize that and think about like, What's the smart way for us to help that management team to really capitalize on their opportunities?

16:54Ian Ross: We'll get back to the show in just a moment. But before we do, one of the most common and important value creation levers that we hear about on the show from private equity investors and our own PE partners is go to market. Yet when these same PE partners bring us into their portfolio companies or new target investments that they're exploring, we find that the marketing function is quite immature, underutilized and under optimized. And so that's a huge opportunity that we see inside these companies. and if you have a portfolio company that you feel like it's scaled a lot faster to drive more pipeline and revenue or you're looking at a new investment where you feel like that could be core to your investment thesis well we'd love to explore that with you and figure out how we can partner with you to drive more enterprise value creation on the marketing side similar to the way that we've done with major PE firms like TA, Updata, HG, SDG and many more.

17:47Ian Ross: At this point we've done hundreds of engagements across hundreds of industries and verticals. And we have a ton of benchmarks and frameworks that we bring to these engagements to help you drive as much enterprise value as quickly as possible. So if that sounds like something that you might be interested in, you can just email me directly at shiv at howtosass.com or go to our website and schedule a demo. And we'd love to speak with you about it further. And now with that said, let's get back to the show. I'm curious, like, how do you help your portfolio companies or how are you helping them navigate those challenges?

18:20Ian Ross: And like, is it more of a people problem? Is it an approach problem? I'm curious, what areas are you digging deeper into there? Yeah, I mean, I think in so many ways, leadership in a rapidly changing market can be challenging for some. So, you know, learning to, you know, maybe try the thing that didn't work six months ago, but it might really work now if you do it a little bit differently, like that's a nudge. And being able to nudge someone to try something new or different, or maybe the same in a new way, requires trust. And so the first thing for us is really building a level of trust with our management teams and our operating leaders.

19:02So they get to know us, they get to understand us, and they're willing to accept feedback or ideas into how to change your business. That's probably the most important thing. I think how that shows up is, you know, maybe there's a party at another one of our companies. Maybe it was a part of the management team. Maybe it's a third party provider, you know, marketing firm or service firm that we saw really just crush it on executing a specific strategy. We'll say, hey, this word great over here. Let's have them come and present to this other company. So we're not trying to mandate anything and we don't want to drive, you know, good investment firms do not drive their company strategy from an ivory tower.

19:45It really needs to be distributed out into the field. And those leadership teams need to really own those decisions and how the go forward looks. And so we recognize there's a delicate line there and we work hard to kind of stay on the right side of it.

20:00Ian Ross: Yeah, that's great. I guess through that vein, I guess the question would be, are you bringing talent from your investment team or do you have an operating team that's getting involved at that level with these investments or are you trying to pull in external partners and advisors to support certain initiatives where you see an opportunity area? Yeah, I mean, we're a pretty small team. So one of the things about lower middle market investing is, you know, it's hard to build a 40-person team with the, you know, fund size and everything that happens in the little middle market. So we've got a few people that are highly value added that have certain levels of expertise as operating partners or, you know, a number of our investing partners are former CEOs who bring a level of, you know, perspective that maybe is differentiated.

20:53And so, you know, we look to find people internally that can help it. But oftentimes those people, They also know what that third party service provider or angle might be that could be really helpful. So I think it's a combination of both. You know, a lot of private equity firms these days are building huge teams of operating partners. And we think that's great. And that could be the right answer. But we're a little bit of a hybrid. So we've got a few. And we're, you know, working to build networks of external people that can come in at the right time.

21:27Ian Ross: Yeah, yeah, totally. We've seen it happen where certain private equity firms have built large operating teams and then having to scale down those operating teams because they didn't find them to be as valuable. So it's a little tricky. Not everybody can do what Vista has done. And even that, it's quite expensive to sustain. I'm curious, like, do you feel like your approach as a family office and the B firm kind of this hybrid, does that give you guys an advantage on deals where, especially on the lower middle market where people like they're entrepreneurs? that are running these businesses and they really want to work with certain types of folks that really want to back their vision.

22:04Ian Ross: Does that give you a bit of an advantage when you're competing with other PE firms? Yeah, I mean, this is a highly competitive business and there's plenty of high energy, very smart investors out there at funds, but also at other structures. How we think we differentiate is certainly, it gets down to the human and the human relationship and how we interact with people and like how they, if they like the vibe that we have in terms of being, you know, entrepreneurial growth oriented, certainly that's important. You know, I think on the family side, there is a, there's a, there's a subset of, of leaders out there who really want to be associated with people that they're proud to like be associated with.

22:46And so, you know, with, with the family that, that we're a part of and have been a part for many years, they've got an unbelievable philanthropy, multiple foundations. We all invite our CEOs in. We just had a CEO summit a month ago or so in Chicago. We brought in our financial advisory team to present to them on different strategies so they can think about their own wealth creation once this business that they're running sells or others sell. And so we try to use what we have to really help our partners, who are those CEOs, help them kind of develop, you know, both their career and their business.

23:26But we also try to help them look out for their own personal situation and, you know, to help them think through, well, gee, what would they want in the family office at some point if they're successful in growing their business and selling it? And so that really resonates with some people. It doesn't with others, and that's okay. But we really try to use the things that we have to become a consolidated profile that some will find differentiated.

23:54Ian Ross: Yeah, I think family offices kind of have this unique position where they can actually work more closely with founders. And I think that can end up being more founder friendly. In general, are you partnering with companies where the founder then wants to stay on and see the next phase of growth of the business through? We are. And I would say just to your earlier point, you know, you really find out what kind of partner you have when things go wrong. You know, when everything is going right and the company is growing up and to the right, it's kind of easy for everyone to be happy and excited about, you know, where the company is going.

24:29But the reality of lower middle market companies is, you know, there's often, you know, you often need to take two steps forward and one step back before you can take three steps forward. And so part of our dynamic and part of the focus we have is around supporting people, being creative, but also being like a strong partner when you really need us. People joke that banks love to lend you money when you don't need it. But when you really do need it, they say no. We think the same thing can happen with equity partners. And so we really try to be relationship oriented from that perspective.

25:03Ian Ross: Yeah. How do you navigate that through transformational periods? Like, especially now, for example, with AI, like companies are facing transformational opportunities and challenges on go to market, on the product side in terms of increased competition. Paid media has gotten more expensive, like all of these things that these companies are navigating. I'm curious, like, how are you helping these companies navigate some of these challenges now? We are. And, you know, many times founders have run a business. They've gotten to a certain point. and the challenges become new and different. So what you're describing around, you know, AI, technology, marketing, all of it is evolving in new ways.

25:46And we oftentimes run into a founder who says, hey, this is, you know, great. I built it from where it was, from nothing to where it is today. I really want a partner to help me not only help the business get to the next stage, but also to help me personally get to the next stage. And so we talk a lot upfront. Sometimes people say, hey, I want to be CEO here for, you know, two, three, five years, something like that. They might have a timeline or they might have a goal of what they want to achieve. And we'll say, hey, that's terrific. Let us work with you to go and we can together recruit new members of the management team that might have some skills or experience in those areas that you don't.

26:26And so part of navigating new technologies and new trends is bringing in fresh perspectives and people with experience and the ability to help navigate through those areas. And so we're very open about that. And people find it generally very refreshing to know that being a founder CEO can be kind of lonely. If you're the one person making decisions, if you own all the equity, you don't have a partner, you have to make those tough decisions by yourself or maybe with an advisor or two. Having a firm like us being your partner, those decisions are more out in the open and are talked about. And it allows you to kind of build relationship, get perspective.

27:07But ultimately, the CEO has to make the decisions around what's really going to happen with that business. And so we think about navigating a changing world as making sure we have great alignment with the people that we're with and, you know, making sure we got the right people in the right seats to really refocus the business and drive it forward.

27:25Ian Ross: With some of these types of changes and transformations, like there's almost like this front loaded investment required. Right. And something we touched on earlier, which is like you're not bound by returning capital to LPs. Like, does that help in these situations? Because sometimes a company might need to take a step back profitably in the short term to raise EBITDA in the future. I'm curious, like, how you guys look at those types of tradeoffs, because a lot of those currently exist in current market conditions. Yeah, I would say most companies need to make that tradeoff. Many times a founder, you know, they build a business, they get it up and running, it's growing, it gets up to be, you know, whatever it is.

28:04and they start to make decisions around, well, gee, I don't wanna go spend a lot of money on a new ERP system implementation or I don't wanna go spend money experimenting on marketing or sales or, I just kind of like what it is, right? It starts cash flowing and they feel very good about it. The change comes when you say, hey, it's great, you've made it to whatever, two, three,$5 million of EBITDA. we're probably going to cut that EBIT down half or maybe to zero because we think there's like a two-year investment period here where we're going to go. We're going to expand your team. We're going to go recruit.

28:44The company is going to spend money on some of the things that will really drive that organic growth. And that's an important, really important thing to talk about and be very open with because people get protective of their earnings. and certainly in the private equity game, a lot of companies are really valued off of multiple of EBITDA or profits. And it's important to just recognize sometimes you need to take a step or two back before you can start really marching forward.

29:14Ian Ross: Yeah. How do you reconcile that with like this? I think earlier you were saying that, you know, you guys are patient, but at the same time, you want to be opportunistic with these investors if there are opportunities. So how do you balance those two priorities? Yeah, that's a real challenge. That ultimately gets to the personalities and the magic of a great investment firm is how do you describe and articulate the path that you believe that company needs to go down to get to the outcome that you're really shooting for? So, you know, just as an example, we've got a business today that's a terrific bottling company.

29:53They bottle beverages and canned beverages. A lot of beverage companies are moving from plastic to aluminum. So there's, you know, big, big growth in the demand for aluminum. You know, we've got a business, we're building a greenfield plant. And so this is, you know, we had a plant, it was running well, you know, doing profit and everything like that. But now we're going to build a plant that's four times as large as the original plant. It costs four times as much. And, you know, it's a massive kind of growth trajectory for that business. Like profits are dropping. This is we're adding expenses and people, you know, in the original business.

30:29But we think, you know, year two, three down the road, there's going to be gigantic value creation through that kind of expansion. So, you know, that's just an example of, you know, more of a capital play in terms of growth. But we see the same thing in services businesses. We see the same thing, you know, in many other types of businesses. You just, you know, we all need to just take a deep breath and say to ourselves, like, wow, this business would be a lot better with, you know, some of the base level technology that other companies have. And we've seen it enough times to know and have the perspective of, hey, that makes sense.

31:04It's, you know, great. We've got a year or two to really make those changes. And the catch up for us is not just, you know, the return of, you know, what our EBITDA is right away. It's much more about are we creating value and do we think that these things are going to pay off in the long run?

31:19Ian Ross: Yeah, I think that is a very healthy perspective. I guess, you know, you need the right team and the right leadership to be able to navigate some of those areas. When you're looking inside these companies, and especially given that you're investing in services, are there certain patterns that you're seeing across the board? You mentioned that, you know, base level technology requirements are on the data side or on the go to market side. Like, what are you seeing, especially in the services sector, where there are opportunities in front of these companies that they kind of need to navigate or things that they need to transform inside their businesses to generate more enterprise value?

31:56Yeah, I mean, we use some of those old SaaS metrics for services companies. So, you know, what's your customer acquisition cost and what's the lifetime value of that customer? And it sounds pretty straightforward. But, you know, when you go apply that to a small business, it's just not doesn't come naturally to many small business owners or founders. And so, you know, we do the work to kind of take the data and say, you know, look, this is what you're spending to get a new customer. this is how much that customer is worth to you. Like, you know, maybe you could spend two or three times what you are right now because your customers are highly valuable.

32:34They tend to, they have longevity, they stick around, you know, high margin, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Or, you know, when you look at a business and the opposite is true, which is, wow, you're spending a lot of money to get a customer, but, you know, your lifetime value is pretty low because you keep losing them, you know, for whatever reason, then the fix becomes different, right? It's much more about, well, what do we need to change in our operations or in our service delivery to really make those things hum? So it comes by a case-by-case type of scenario, but it's trying to come up with a customized view of what should happen for each company.

33:10Ian Ross: Right. Yeah, that's fantastic advice. We're coming up on time here, Ian, but before we close things off, if people are listening and they want to get in touch, what's the best way to get a hold of you or your firm? Yeah, look, you can look us up online. It's a concentric equity partners or I'm on LinkedIn. My name is Ian Ross and happy to hear from people if they'd like to reach out. Yeah, we'll be sure to include all of that in the links in the show notes. And with that said, Ian, thanks for coming on and sharing your wisdom. I think it was quite fast paced, but there's a lot of great learnings, especially for private equity firms that are more the traditional private equity version.

33:42Ian Ross: There's a lot that can be taken away from your model as having the family office and how closely you're working with these entrepreneurs. So appreciate you sharing all that. Great. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to today's episode. Before you take off, just a few requests from our side. Number one, if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or wherever you go to listen to your podcasts. Number two, if you are in the market for due diligence services, strategy consulting, or fractional CMO services, please get in touch with us at www.howtosass.com.

34:17Ian Ross: and third please buy a copy of my new book exit ready marketing it covers a ton of concepts that we take our customers through private equity investors b2b companies ceos operating partners and marketers and there's a ton of great value in there that expands on my previous book post acquisition marketing as well so with that said i hope you enjoyed today's content and we'll see you on the next episode