Ep. 141: Mike Magliochetti, Riverside Partners | Deep Operating Partnership in Healthcare

0:00Hey, everybody.

0:01Mike Magliochetti: Before we get started with today's episode, I want to take an opportunity to tell you about my new book, AI Marketing Blueprint. It just hit number one bestseller status across multiple categories on Amazon, and it walks you through a proven framework that we are taking our clients through here at How to SaaS and how to stay relevant and visible in a world with AI platforms. One of the biggest problems that we have seen across clients and companies is that the traditional channels that they relied on, like paid search or SEO, have declined significantly or are getting more expensive and competitive.

0:34Mike Magliochetti: The reason for this is that a lot of buyers are starting to self-educate themselves and research on AI platforms. So a lot of that volume that was previously going to those channels is now moving to these new AI platforms. So to stay relevant, the book walks you through seven new rules that companies in all kinds of verticals and industries need to consider so that they can continue growing their pipeline and revenue and ultimately their enterprise value. So if this applies to your business or one of the companies that you've invested in, I definitely recommend that you pick up a copy. It's available on Amazon, on Apple Books, on Barnes and Noble, and even share it with your teams.

1:10Mike Magliochetti: Grab a bunch of copies so that you can kind of consume the content together and start to apply it to your business. And with that said, let's move on to the episode. Welcome to the Private Equity Value Creation Podcast, where we interview leading investors, operators, bankers, and advisors to help you answer one question. How do we increase the enterprise value of our companies? My name is Shiv Narayanan, and each episode, I will dive deep with a guest to help you become a better value creator and capital allocator. So with that said, let's jump right in and let's get started with today's episode.

1:46Mike Magliochetti: My guest today is Mike Magliocchetti, and he is the operating partner at Riverside Partners. And what I really enjoyed about this episode is that I meet private equity investors and operating partners all the time. And oftentimes I'm left feeling like the operating partners can be doing a lot more to grow their portfolio companies. And what was exceptional about Mike's take and his approach is that he's been a CEO multiple times. He's had multiple exits and his role inside Riverside is actually helping their CEOs navigate some of the toughest challenges. And he has really helped them drive enterprise value with his expertise, his network, and actually focusing on the things that really move the needle on pipeline and margin expansion and ultimately enterprise value.

2:29Mike Magliochetti: And it's something that I think a lot of operating partners can learn from because it's so easy to get caught up in spreadsheets and financial models and revenue projections. But really, the hard work of driving pipeline and revenue sometimes gets overlooked inside firms and companies. So I really hope you take that away in terms of the conversation with Mike. And I really hope it helps you build a better operating partner program inside your firms and organizations. With that said, I'll leave you to it. Enjoy the episode.

3:03Mike Magliochetti: All right, Mike, welcome to the show. How's it going? Pretty good. Pretty good, Chef. Thanks for having me. Yeah, excited to have you on. Obviously, we've known each other for some time with you being at Riverside. So why don't you start with your background and also you've written a book. So maybe touch on that and then we'll go from there. Yeah, yeah. I've been at Riverside for 15 years now as a full-time operating partner. Hard for me to say. It's the longest I've been I've touched down anywhere, but I didn't grow up in private equity. My background is really different than my partners. Very different.

3:35As a matter of fact, I originally trained as a chemical engineer, have my undergraduate and Ph.D. degrees in chemical engineering. And and after my first assignment, went to business school and my career took a totally different trajectory at that point. For the next 20 years, I had the good fortune to be blessed to serve as CEO of three companies, mostly in the medical device diagnostics spaces through successful sale transactions. Eurosurge, which is the urology gynecology business that we sold to American Medical Systems. RMH, which is a orthopedics company that was acquired by the European company Autobach.

4:12and my last company, Claros, which was an oncology diagnostics business that was acquired by the public company Opco Health. It was while I was at Claros as CEO that I met Riverside. I got introduced to a mutual friend like this, to the managing general partner, David Bellick. And David and I clicked right away, which isn't difficult to do with him. And after a few meetings, he asked if I wanted to serve on Riverside's Health Care Advisory Board, which is a group of executives from all different subsectors in which Riverside plays to really help the firm with diligence on opportunities, my deal origination, serve as an independent board member here and there, and just add value whenever called upon.

4:56And so I was in Boston. They were in Boston. Didn't seem like too heavy of a lift while I was running Klaros. And the firm had a tremendous reputation, so I decided to do it. And fast forward four years later, Klaros was acquired. I was deeply involved with Riverside on multiple fronts. and I stayed along with the Acquire Opco to run their global diagnostics business. I did that for about 14 months. Part of the deal was a retention package that I was able to go through. And Riverside reached out and asked if I really wanted to give my career a dog leg left and join full time. And I'll tell you, Shiv, you know, it wasn't even part of my calculus.

5:43I thought that, you know, for me, I still had a hell of a lot more fuel in the tank, maybe another CEO role or maybe teach somewhere. And but I did have I knew I had the chemistry box checked. I saw how over the course of the previous five years, how they treated each other as partners, but more importantly, how they treated the management teams, the companies they invested in. And I had been on the other side of the equation for 20 years, and this was very different. And so I'm sure you've had, your listeners have had some great mentors in your careers. I definitely have. I've also had folks I couldn't take another 30 seconds with in a boardroom, and I didn't see any of that behavior.

6:30None of those shenanigans, none of that insecurity. security. And so I decided to do it and give myself a year fuse to see if I'd like it or not. You know, going from player to coach is different. And, you know, you pick your head up and 14, 15 years goes by. It's amazing. I guess lesson learned for me is if you like what you do and who you do it with, the time just goes by, you know. Yeah, totally.

6:55Mike Magliochetti: And so what's your focus now? I mean, given you've had these exits, you have a wealth of experience here. Like, Where are you focused inside Riverside and the companies that are in the portfolio? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm fully integrated with our GPs. But for me, these companies, just to give you a little bit of a backdrop, these are, I guess, textbook lower middle market, ultra lower middle market companies, founder run, majority management owned companies when we invest. They're good companies. They'd be good companies whether or not they met us. But there are opportunities for these businesses that when we invest are doing, you know, three to six, you know, a million dollars in EBITDA, maybe a little bit higher, depending.

7:39There's really grassroots value creation opportunities here. And I kind of look at it in, you know, three key areas. There's the opportunity to professionalize the management team. You know, oftentimes, you know, we play, I should say we play in pharma services, tech enabled health care services, contract manufacturing, medical devices. Oftentimes, the founder will come to us during diligence and say, hey, listen, Mike, you know, I'm a Ph.D. biochemist. I've taken this company to 30 million in revenues. I know what it should look like, perhaps at 130, but I'm not sure how to get there. Well, you know, we have a 37 year playbook as a firm.

8:21to get there. Right. And, and, um, so for me, I have sometimes parachute in, work with them on a succession plan, bring in a, uh, bring in a, uh, a professional CEO who's been there, done it before. Uh, and oftentimes the founder, you know, will ask, you know, what do you really enjoy doing? And, you know, they oftentimes will like to, you know, they like to work with clients or, you know, um, be a brand ambassador, be on the, you know, at the tip of the spear, if you will, from a scientific standpoint. And so we kind of play to that. Oftentimes, you know, we'd like to bring in a new CFO or a CFO.

9:01And we get pushback from, you know, sometimes we'll get pushback from the founder. Why do I need a CFO? What's the CFO going to be doing that I'm not already doing today? And they have maybe a part-time accountant managing a$4 million EBITDA business on QuickBooks. so especially if we have leverage on a company you know having a professional cfo getting involved with that hire and inevitably a quarter or two later the founder will come to us and and say i can't believe i ran the company without this person you know the metrics the kpis i'm looking at their business like i've never looked at it before right in that depth so it's an evolution you know from a business development standpoint shiv you know oftentimes these companies are growing at 5%, 10%, 15 % a year just by word of mouth, just by client-to-client referrals or on the shoulders of the founder's network.

9:54That's a good thing, but it's not scalable. This is an area, go-to-market is an area that I really love. I enjoy it. The opportunity to bring on a world-class VP of sales and marketing, build out inside sales, field sales, hunters, account management, that's all part of it, working to bring that forward. And once, you know, as we think about professionalizing that, the systems and processes, bringing in those, as simple as it may sound to you, you know, a CRM system, Salesforce or HubSpot. And then once we continue to roll forward a, you know, maybe cross-functionally, an ERP system, depending on the business, if it's a laboratory business and a LIMS system, You know, bringing that institutionalizing the performance there.

10:46And once we feel good about the systems and the processes and the people, I'll get deeply involved with, you know, add on acquisitions to get a business into different geographies or technologies or diversification of clients. That's all that's all part of sort of this whole value creation recipe, if you will. And I'm just I'm sharing the tips of the waves with you. But that's most often where I'm deeply engaged.

11:13Mike Magliochetti: How deep are you getting engaged? Like that's, you know, given your experience, like are you getting very operationally involved with these companies or are you almost acting like an advisor to the CEO to kind of guide them in the right direction? Yeah, I guess a little bit of both. You know, honestly, I can give you an example with one of our companies in the pharma services space. We were at a point where the company was growing. We really had a position well with the management team, business development, and some of our clients were asking for a European presence, some of our big clients, that if we had a presence in Europe, they would, you know, with respect to clinical trial samples that we would be analyzing, they would give all of their samples to us.

12:00And so that European footprint was very, very important. And so I spent a great deal of time with one of my partners, just diligencing, finding very similar companies in Europe, founder-owned businesses in the bioanalytical testing space. Must have went through 50 companies. We didn't want to distract management with that. So really engaged there and teed up three companies to the leadership team to go ahead and make a decision. And we ended up acquiring a business in Hamburg, Germany, and that really changed the complexion of the company and the trajectory of the business. But yeah, I sometimes will get deeply involved from a business development standpoint, working with the teams, attending weekly meetings, new hires really being, as I say, the tip of the spear there, our new executive leadership team hires, working through budgets, that sort of thing.

13:00So, you know, I try to I try to meet it a bit, but take the lead from the executive leadership team and the founders. You know, I never pretend to know a business better than the leadership team knows a business. It's just really being able to get that accessibility to act, you know, to to plug in and add value.

13:18Mike Magliochetti: Is there an approach that you're taking or like a value creation framework that you're following? Like, how are you figuring out where to focus these companies or where those lovers are? because I'm assuming every situation is going to be quite different. And so ways in which you would have to help is going to look different as well. So I'm curious how you go about that given your experience. Yeah, I guess you really flush a lot of that out in diligence, right? I mean, really where you need to plug in, whether it's if they're really not matured from a management perspective, if they don't have leaders in place who have scaled businesses, is, you know that that's going to be an area very, very quickly that you're going to want to plug in.

14:01Business development, you know, of course, you know, you'll based on the footprint that they have today, what they have in terms of people, is it just inside sales? Do they have a field sales team? It evolves over time with respect to the add-on acquisitions when we feel comfortable. We may never do an add-on acquisition, but more often than not, we do. But I have to tell you, kind of stepping back, right, Shiv, and it's taken me quite a long time to kind of figure this out. But the role of the operating partner, you know, we exist to add outsized value, right? I mean, you know, these companies have to be better off for having us involved than not.

14:46And I look at it and there's two buckets, if you will. One is more nuanced and subtle, and the other is more objective and roll up your sleeves. On the subjective side, I really try to be, in both of those areas, you have to be that trusted confidant. And from the nuanced side, there's not too many landmines over the past 30 years, both as an operator and in private equity, in every functional area of a business that I haven't stepped on. So I try to create an environment where they can come to me, the CEO, any member of the executive leadership team can come to me with issues that they're navigating, problems that they're working through.

15:30And I'm not going to wave the red flag to my partners and say the sky is falling and have that knee jerk private equity or venture capital reactionary behavior that we'll sometimes can see. But what I try to do is work through that and instill on them that it's not an us versus them. It should never be that. Them should be the competition. And as part of this, you're working through these issues and more often than not, they're organizational behavior issues, client issues. And you get through it together. You build that trust in baby steps. And private equity, it thrives on transparency and trust.

16:11And you don't get the latter without the former. So, and as part of it too, you have to be aware of the egos involved, both on our side and the founder's side. The founder may have been running this business for 40 years. And so, being aligned on an investment thesis, and as I say in my book, you know, serving outcomes and not egos. You know, it's very, very important that you kind of get to that point. And on the more objective side, I mentioned it, you know, the go-to-market perspective. You know, this is an area where I roll up my sleeves. I'm often invited to weekly or biweekly business development team meetings for several of our portfolio companies.

16:58And during those meetings, we interrogate a pipeline, you know, in Salesforce. We look at the different probabilities to close, the values. And I keep an eye out for these larger opportunities, these larger prospects where I can leverage my 30-year network, but also those of the healthcare advisory board that I now chair at Riverside, that's almost 30 individuals, all very active, to come in over the top and advocate for our company for these select opportunities on a C-level. and also warm introductions to new logos, I can point to over the years tens of millions of dollars of new business that has been won this way.

17:40And I can tell you, if you want to build trust and camaraderie quickly, get your nose out of an Excel spreadsheet and move the needle on revenue. That will do it very, very quickly.

17:51Mike Magliochetti: We'll get back to the show in just a moment, but before we do, one of the most common and important value creation levers that we hear about on the show from private equity investors and our own PE partners is go to market. Yet when these same PE partners bring us into their portfolio companies or new target investments that they're exploring, we find that the marketing function is quite immature, underutilized and under optimized. And so that's a huge opportunity that we see inside these companies. And if you have a portfolio company that you feel like it's scaled a lot faster to drive more pipeline and revenue or you're looking at a new investment where you feel like that could be core to your investment thesis, but we'd love to explore that with you and figure out how we can partner with you to drive more enterprise value creation on the marketing side, similar to the way that we've done with major PE firms like TA, Updata, HG, SDG, and many more.

18:44Mike Magliochetti: At this point, we've done hundreds of engagements across hundreds of industries and verticals, and we have a ton of benchmarks and frameworks that we bring to these engagements to help you drive as much enterprise value as quickly as possible. So if that sounds like something that you might be interested in, you can just email me directly at shiv at howtosass.com or go to our website and schedule a demo. And we'd love to speak with you about it further. And now with that said, let's get back to the show. I really loved what you said there as you started this part off where you said that the role of the operating partner is to add outsized value.

19:20Mike Magliochetti: And I think that's something that's missed in a lot of private equity firms. We work with all kinds of PE firms, small and large. And there are operating partners like yourself that are adding a ton of value to their companies. And then there are other operating partners that are kind of like, they're like these check-in buddies that get assigned to these companies and they'll check the spreadsheet and then just kind of translate it back to the board. But like, they're not really adding value. And it's kind of a wasted seat inside these PE firms. And it's frustrating for the CEOs or the founders inside these companies.

19:52Mike Magliochetti: And it's frustrating even for the investors because the companies may not be growing at the level of the area. So I'm just curious, is that a function of the fact that you have operated in this industry in a way that Riverside is focused, is on healthcare, so you're able to bring way more value? Or is it a function of just functional expertise that can help? Or is this something else? Is it like networking or being involved with the company on a different level? Yeah. Yeah, you know, honestly, when David at Riverside offered me the role of operating partner, naively, I thought that, you know, this was basically someone in the twilight of their career, you know, sort of as a pseudo consultant, you know, and that's not what I wanted.

20:38I still had a hell of a lot more fuel in the tank as I do today. And I made it known that that was not my that that's not what I want. That expectation was not going to work for me. And I was given the autonomy to just go ahead. And we did have operating partners at Riverside at the time that played more of that type of role. And so what we've done is we've morphed towards me now chairing operating advisors, our health care clinical advisory boards, and being deeply, deeply engaged. For me, I get the same adrenaline rush in my role and working with our portfolio companies as I did as a CEO. And you have to, in my opinion, you have to pay for your freight.

21:24And I just, that role, I don't know if that role will ever be adequate for me in that sort of pseudo consultant type role. I think a lot depends on the firm and the autonomy they give operating partners and the expectations that are set for the operating partner. I think it's a disservice to have these folks with all of this experience and not be able to build that bridge. Yes. Build that bridge with the executive leadership team members. I wish I had these tools when I was a CEO to draw upon that I kind of bring to bear with our advisors, with my network, and to our portfolio companies.

22:05Mike Magliochetti: Totally. Yeah. One of my pet peeves or just even theories is just that inside companies, there aren't enough people that understand what actually moves the needle on revenue. There are people that are good at doing tasks or handling operations or making sure things are shipped. But when it comes time to actually close more deals and drive more pipeline and go outside the building and actually find more customers, there are far fewer people that know that. And in the private equity space, you can spend so much time in spreadsheets and build the best models and figure out an EBITDA projection and all of these types of things.

22:43Mike Magliochetti: But at the end of the day, you still have to drive more revenue and margin expansion actually drive enterprise value. And there aren't enough people that do that. And I think that's one of the weaknesses I've seen inside companies and inside PE firms where there's just this gap. There aren't enough people that have done this. And CEOs that have, like some of them are in a seat like you. But I haven't seen enough true, true experts in that seat helping these companies. And that's one of the reasons why we get the business that we get is that on the marketing side, we are bringing that. But it's just a major gap.

23:15Mike Magliochetti: And I expect companies will continue to struggle unless PE firms kind of figure out that gap. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I'm just kind of thinking as you're sharing that, you know, I've spoken over the past year as part of the book promotion. I've spoken to different colleges and universities. And inevitably, I get asked by students, how do I get into private equity? What should I do to get into private equity? You know, and they and I'll tell them, you know, don't take that traditional path, you know, where you go work for an investment banking firm or, you know, a consulting firm or and then, you know, do a stint as an analyst at a private equity firm and then go for your MBA.

24:02and then you're on this path of an associate, a vice president, a principal, I say stop and go work for a company. Go work in corporate development. Go work in marketing. Go work in business development. Understand why decisions are made. Look under the hood real time in a business rather than trying to be an Excel spreadsheet jockey at the end of the day and not having any experience to draw upon. I think it's so important. I'm surrounded by some super bright people. And some have had operating experience. But I think in filling that gap that you describe, I think that maybe that's one avenue to possibly get there.

24:52And at the same time, get respect from the executive leadership team members of the companies that you invest in.

24:58Mike Magliochetti: Totally. I asked this question earlier, and we kind of went on this sidetrack, but I'm curious, coming back to it, how much of it is the healthcare or health tech focus inside Riverside? Because that's kind of where you're focused. There's a network behind it. You kind of have this advisory board, and there's connections, and that can lead to introductions and pipeline for these companies. How much of that is at play here? It's significant. Absolutely. We have the most experienced healthcare investment team in the lower middle market, I have to say. And the resources that we can bring to bear just by having that focus.

25:34Today, we're 100 % focused in healthcare. That's all we do is different verticals within healthcare that we play. But, I mean, we have such depth. The experience, the deals that we see. You know, when we speak to founders, when we speak to leadership teams, we hear that we get that feedback of, you know, we're not a generalist firm. You know, we can go deep in every functional area of a business, whether it's in pharma services, contract medical device manufacturing, front to back end revenue cycle management services for physician practices. Got 37 years of experience in health care with a focus in health care.

26:15Mike Magliochetti: So it matters a lot, Shiv. It matters a lot. Yeah, because even especially in healthcare, I think one of the interesting things is that the sales cycles are long. There's only so many buyers out there. And so network becomes such a huge part of getting the right introductions. And we've worked with a ton of health tech companies in the past where that is the biggest challenge. Like there's only so many hospitals in the country. You got to go to the right buyer inside these organizations. And finding that person from a go-to-market perspective can be difficult. So that's a key way that you're bringing that value in.

26:46Absolutely. Well, some of our companies, for example, that have sold into the hospital space, our network to get to a C-level executive at a hospital and get the exposure, if they're in our pipeline or have that warm introduction, it goes such a long way, such a long way.

27:05Mike Magliochetti: In terms of the business development side, can you expand on that a little bit? How are you guys building that inside these companies? You know, we'll start, you know, depending on, you know, what the business has in place day one. You know, just typically, you know, work with them to build, you know, to bring on a, you know, a real leader, a chief commercial officer or a VP of sales and marketing. And then kind of step back and think through, you know, the inside sales function. Oftentimes, these companies may have a couple of folks manning the phones, and they'll go to a conference and have a table at a conference or, you know, really, you know, building out, you know, a field sales team, you know, working, you know, because oftentimes, these founders have never done that before, you know, and so working with search firms, our own network, and bringing in folks, whether it's regionally or, you know, regional directors or areas.

28:07Area sales reps, building that out, building maybe a marketing organization and bringing on a head of marketing or depending sometimes our VPs of sales and marketing have worked with folks in the PACs they feel comfortable with. We've also used third parties from a marketing standpoint to help with the business. Again, under the hood, the compensation programs, working that out for the business, and then just kind of layering on the systems and processes to professionalize, institutionalize the performance of the function.

28:47Mike Magliochetti: Mm-hmm. How much of the work is in hiring the right leader versus setting the right strategy or having the right roadmaps and execution capabilities? Yeah. I think a lot of it is that getting that right person, getting that right leader in place who's been there, who's done it before, has experience in the sector. I think the systems and processes and stepping back and looking at a roadmap on how effectively to approach the market, I think that's all part of it. But, you know, really getting that hire right is so is so important. And having that founder and the existing leadership team, part of that intimately part of that hiring process, because they're the cultural nucleus behind the business.

29:34I mean, we're talking about a lower middle market company where the founder has been the hero operator and making sure that they're part of their part of their process is so important.

29:44Mike Magliochetti: Mm hmm. Let's I know we're coming up on time, but before we close up, let's talk a little bit about your book. I know it just came out recently. Talk about what's in it. What do you cover and and why people or how people can get themselves a copy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'll try to go quickly here. You know, in every one of those CEO roles that I had, Shiv, in the 20 years before Riverside, urology, orthopedics, oncology, whenever I was fortunate enough to get offered a CEO role, I never felt I was qualified. Not because of imposter syndrome, but because of the fact that, you know, I got tapped to run an orthopedics company and I had never spent a day in orthopedics in my life.

30:24So I had returned money for shareholders. I was bilingual in the sense of technology and business. But what that translated to was a very, very steep learning curve, a reinvention in every one of these medical specialties. And I had a process that I used quite simply where I would always be deferential to those around me with lots of experience in the space. I would never let something be said that I didn't understand without asking the question and completely, completely immerse myself in these businesses. For the first six months, maybe the entire tenure of the CEO assignment, the whole concept of work-life balance was out the window for me.

30:58When I made the transition to private equity, even though I had had PE, VC, family office investors in my companies in the past, I had an MBA, all that good. I was an advisor to Riverside for four or five years. The learning curve was just as steep. I was being put into an ecosystem where this is all these folks have ever done. And so as an outsider, I was on that steep learning curve. I used that same process as I did as a new CEO, but I did something very different this time. I kept a journal. And anytime one of my colleagues used a phrase or an idiom that I didn't quite understand, I wrote it down.

31:36And I kept this as a living document, a little bit about the phrase, you know, what it meant, how it was used. And I kept that over the years, speaking at conferences, meeting other PE firms, iBankers. I'd always come back with entries to my journal. And I was at Columbia late 2021 and a professor asked me about my crazy path into private equity as a scientist originally starting my career. And how did I acclimate? And I shared with him this tool that I used, this journal that just helped me along the process. And he stopped me in my tracks and he said, you know, you've done something really, really different here.

32:16Many of my students, as As you look around, they'll go on and work for PE or VC firms. They'll work for companies that are funded by PE and venture capital.

32:24Mike Magliochetti: You should really think about turning that journal into a manuscript for a book. And so rounding the corner on 2022, I decided for my New Year's resolution I was going to make a run at it. And I picked my head up two years later, and I had about 350 pages. and knowing nothing about publishing. Again, leveraging this network, which is our superpower, right, networking, I managed to get in front of a few literary agents, one of whom took me on and helped shepherd me through a process to get the book published. But the book is really designed to bridge that gap between executive leadership team members and venture capital or private equity investors to really pull the curtain back in a tongue-in-cheek way to the nuanced language that's used, the circumstances that are encountered, the decisions that are made, and at the same time being educational but also being entertaining at the same time.

33:23The book consists of about 200-plus of these micro-cases, micro-stories, each centered around sort of this nuanced language that's used that I came across in my 20 years as an operator dealing with PE and VC investors and also as an investor on the other side.

33:45Mike Magliochetti: Well, that's great. I mean, there's going to be a ton of great stories and experience and I'm looking forward to getting my copy too. So we'll be sure to include that and everything else in the show notes. And Mike, with that said, thanks for coming on and sharing your wisdom. I think especially for the operating partners that listen to this podcast, I think hearing how you approach this and your experience and how Riverside is leveraging that to help your companies, I think that's fantastic. And a lot of PE firms should be doing the same. So appreciate you coming on and sharing all this. Shiv, thanks so much.

34:12This is a lot of fun. Thanks.

34:14Mike Magliochetti: Thanks for listening to today's episode. Before you take off, just a few requests from our side. Number one, if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or wherever you go to listen to your podcasts. Number two, if you are in the market for due diligence services, strategy consulting or fractional CMO services, please get in touch with us at www.howtosass.com. And third, please buy a copy of my new book, Exit Ready Marketing. It covers a ton of concepts that we take our customers through, private equity investors, B2B companies, CEOs, operating partners, and marketers.

34:53Mike Magliochetti: And there's a ton of great value in there that expands on my previous book, Post Acquisition Marketing, as well. So with that said, I hope you enjoyed today's content, and we'll see you on the next episode.