Sustainability now—Connecting strategy to business value

0:02Hello, and welcome to PwC's accounting podcast.

0:12Today we're talking about how sustainability is evolving as a business issue and how companies can better connect sustainability related risks and opportunities with strategy, resilience, and value creation.

0:41Hi, I'm Heather Horn. Today we're talking about how sustainability is evolving as a business issue and how companies can better connect sustainability-related risks and opportunities with strategy, resilience, and value creation. Joining me for the discussion today, I'm happy to welcome to the podcast Lynn Baber, PwC's Global Sustainability Leader. We discuss how sustainability fits alongside other C-suite priorities, the evolving regulatory landscape, the growing focus on physical climate risk, and why financial quantification is becoming increasingly important to business decision making. With that, let's watch the conversation.

1:23Lynn, welcome to the podcast. So nice to have you on. And I'm especially excited to talk to you in your new role as our global sustainability leader. And in particular, I know that you are talking to a lot of climates. You're talking about a lot of climates, but talking to a lot of clients and understanding how their sustainability story is evolving, particularly given the broader environment. So what are some of the messages that you're hearing? Yeah, thanks, Heather. And well, firstly, it is so nice to be here spending some time with you. Yes, you too. My first time and I can't wait for more.

1:57um yeah so look you're right the the context it's definitely changed right for sustainability um we're seeing all of the geopolitics energy tariffs regulation lots of volatility and that's all shaping business but the c-suite has a clear agenda amongst all of that and that's about protecting margin. It's about building resilience. It's about finding ways for growth. And so sustainability has to show up in that agenda. This isn't about sustainability being to the side or having a separate conversation. It's got to be integrated as part of the broader business strategy. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting, Lynn, because the topics you mentioned are obviously topics top of mind for everyone.

2:48But you really, we've been talking today a lot about the intersection of sustainability with those topics because you can't pull it apart. And so how are you seeing people address that challenge or how are they talking about that in terms of, I need to think about AI, I need to think about energy, I need to think about sustainability. I mean, some of them seem to be a bit in conflict. Yeah, it's really interesting. And actually, during the course of Climate Week so far, it's really been the theme of the week, right around, well how does sustainability show up there's lots of different angles to that um the conversations i'm having with clients what i'm seeing is it's happening best when sustainability aren't doing it by themselves to start with so making friends with as many people in their organization and businesses as possible it's also about um the language that we use actually so um to be able to be at the party, to be invited in, to be there from the beginning.

3:49Actually, we can't just talk in scientific terms anymore. We can be quite a technical kind of profession, which is good, right? We've got rigor, we've got that knowledge of the business, but we need to translate it into the language of the business. We need to translate it into the language that our peers in that C-suite are using. And it's not about competing with other priorities, it's about showing how we unlock value in those. Like one amazing example actually from one of the client sessions this morning, one of the sustainability officers talked about the fact that when she goes to her stakeholders and if it's in relation to an operational project, she talks to them about well how can I help you achieve your goals?

4:35Oh and by the way I really think I can help you achieve them quicker, smarter, more efficiently. So flipping the conversation, right? Not being seen as that individual that comes and says, well, I need this from you. Yeah, or I'm almost like a blocker sometimes. Like you have to change what you're doing, but you're saying it's actually spurring forward what they want to do. Totally. How do you help the other person to be more successful? How do you help the organization to be more successful and really critically how do you show that in commercial terms financial terms that the company actually understands and will resonate with them that's hard right that's hard for sustainability professionals who have gone from you know five years ago it being very de rigueur to talk about net zero commitments and the science and technical well now we're saying to you talk in terms of revenue, cost, capital allocation, risk and return.

5:33I mean, that's tricky. It is tricky. So from your perspective, and I know it's anecdotal, but how are you seeing companies navigate this? Are most of the sustainability officers who are talking to understanding this, or is there a mix, or are most on the early part of that journey? Because it is a big change from where we were to your point five years ago, even a year ago, I think. Yeah, it's a mix, I think. The theme from this week in particular is heartening in terms of all the rooms I've been in talking about it, in terms of it's the right thing to do, it's the right way to approach the topic.

6:17If it was a room full of CFOs, if it was a room full of COOs, would they understand that and talk in the same way? I'm not sure we're completely there yet, but what's really heartening is to see examples and chief sustainability officers willing to share, well, when it's worked, oh, and when it hasn't, and they've fallen a bit flat. And also just being real about it. So this isn't about being defensive and trying to kind of go for your own capital allocation. This is about just picking on the back of one or two things that you think are going to be your quick wins to get traction in your organization.

6:56Don't try and boil the ocean, prioritize, and know that, you know, we're not going to get it right all the time, but actually give it a go and use your peers to help you in that as well, to give you confidence. Yeah, and I think, Lynn, obviously the companies you're talking to, there's maybe a bias in selection because those companies are focused on this but are you seeing most of the sustainability officers with that equal seat at the table or is it still in a lot of places oh sustainability okay here's our real business yeah that's i mean gosh that's a great question again mixed yeah um and look there are some big names big brands where they are part of the executive team and that value creation story is understood and particularly by the CEO, COO, CFO in terms of getting it because they've seen the commercial case, they've seen the business case, they've seen how taking certain sustainability actions can lead to cost reduction.

7:59So thinking about energy and lowering energy usage, well yeah that has some sustainable outcomes because often there's a renewable element or actually it's about decarbonization. But actually the business case that the CSO has gone with is around cost. Yes, exactly. So actually they have spent time to think about those stakeholders around the room. They've thought about the business strategy and they're there with them with the language. Structurally across a number of places though, I would still say that the sustainability function will often report into one of those C-suite. And I think that's okay right as long as you're looking at how you get the right mandate how you have a plan to integrate right well that that's okay but it's about sponsorship then and it's about um that person do they do they understand do they buy into it well and so actually that was my next question is like one of the things we've talked about is then needing to embed sustainability in the business or otherwise and so you've talked about a few different things then one is a model where the sustainability officer is at the C-suite level.

9:06Another case is where they have the sponsorship. Again, from your perspective, are there some models that work better than others? Or what are you seeing work from that sort of being part of the business perspective? Yeah, so I think the structure really doesn't matter in terms of that end game, right? Yeah. Around integration and embedment. Because it comes back to, again, the culture of that business, the organization. and what matters is the behavior of the chief sustainability officer to try and drive that embedment again coming back to well it's good good old-fashioned kind of change management language stakeholders knowing when to push knowing when to sit back knowing the priorities getting those quick wins under the belt showing what that business case is so I don't think the answer is about structure to drive further progress.

9:58I think it's actually the mindset more and it's the language that is used, not structure. And so since you're on the PwC Accounting Podcast, I'm going to ask you about accounting or numbers. Not completely, but I mean, if we're talking about the business case and that this really can drive value and otherwise for companies, then what are you seeing in terms of how people are approaching this financial quantification? In particular, what's interesting to me is some of the examples you've given and I've heard this week, you wouldn't focus on sustainability as being the driver, but it is a driver and a huge benefit.

10:40So how are companies thinking about this? Yeah, I mean, this is a huge topic Heather which you know and close to my heart actually around financial quantification overall I think I start by coming back to well what's the use case for why you need to put a kind of quantification on it and there are many different use cases for organizations and I think yet we hear a lot about the kind of regulation particularly corporate reporting regulation driving a need for it but I would certainly say actually the first primary driver has to be about the business need for it and then reporting is an outcome of a business need isn't it so whether it's in relation to an easier quantification around trying to quantify your investment program for decarbonization linked to benefits in relation to I don't know if you're a logistics company looking at one of the great examples I had a sustainability team worked with logistics and operations to say well actually in our routing of trucks moving certain product around different locations if we can get a bit more efficient in looking at the routing and where things need to go and when and the mode of travel well there's a huge cost benefit but also that benefit and decal so then it's coming back into saying as I quantify those different elements what are the right principles from accounting management accounting to be able to look at that when it comes to physical climate risk which is I think a key topic for this area and looking at potential kind of financial effects I mean that then also comes back to thinking about well what's the real risk here i think there's work generally in risk management where we can get more specific about well what's the actual risk and then it's about coming down to well what's the impact pathway what's the proxies in terms of where that risk might materialize so whether it's in operations and in manufacturing sites from flooding well then you're looking at well what's the potential mitigations insurances it gets quite complex yes quite quickly but what you want to do is come all the way back from that.

12:55Don't dive in immediately to financial quantification. Come back to say, well, where is the actual risk that matters for the business? Let's focus this down, funnel it down. Don't try and quantify everything. Let's bring it back to the business strategy and what's going to matter to the CFO for resilience for the whole business. Well, and it is interesting. I have so many follow-up questions from what you just said, but just pulling one thing that you said, the fact that in this logistics case, I mean, there's real dollar savings to that company and real climate benefit or real benefit from that point of view.

13:30So it's the true win-win, which I know people like to say. But in this case, I feel like if the sustainability team is looking to partner with other parts of the business, there's a lot that can be gained there. Definitely. And in that example, the nice added benefit was not, it's not only the reduced costs from travel and the different modes and yes the reduced energy usage decarb impact on climate etc actually impact on the workers who are those having to deliver right in terms of actually having a more efficient route like thinking about their lives as well and how they're spending their time yes productivity but also how they enjoy their jobs too right so then this broader sustainability message.

14:16This is climate week, but it is more broadly from a sustainability. So you mentioned physical risk, and I find this so interesting because we're in Manhattan. And if you go to lower Manhattan, there's huge seawalls that they're building because of the risk of flooding and otherwise. And so here, because of, you know, superstorms dandy some time ago and otherwise, there is a lot of, I'll say, government focus, you know, in terms of what are we going to do. I think there's other cases where companies may have operations in places where there isn't, or maybe the government's not moving fast enough.

14:49So how are you seeing companies deal with this, where there's a mix of public-private, and do they just move operations? Or I know this is something you spend time on, so I had to ask you. Yeah, I mean, huge complex area. And I mean, we do just look at what's happened so far in 2026, and it's incredible, right? Yes. across the globe so it's not just kind of isolated to certain regions no um really sad as well right in terms of excess deaths and destruction yeah yeah um so i think it again different in different markets in terms of response and different uh response from a well is it a government role is it something for businesses to deal with and i think you're going to need a mix of both but certainly from a business perspective i see it as part of a broader conversation about resilience now more than ever before so um actually looking at you know the conversation that is a mix of well what's the geopolitical environment going to do to our business in relation to often showing up in tariffs and you know trade tariffs or looking at regulation in terms of certain markets doing certain things whether it's the eu in relation to some of their product kind of legislation and then you overlay also kind of climate risk physical climate risk and bringing some of those things together for a business to say well actually when we look at our business model what makes sense for us going forwards i had an amazing example where a coo asked one of our supply chain partners to kind of give him a view of what should he do think back 10 years from now and the kind of vision that they came up with together was actually saying well with the advance of AI and robots and robotics and this is a manufacturing business they can doesn't doesn't really matter actually in terms of where are they going to be placed because labor laws kind of almost become non-relevant in terms of that angle to it.

16:58So producing closer to where it makes sense in terms of customer or where it makes sense depending on regulatory environment. Looking at what they produce, they then said, well, actually, 10 years from now, there'll be increased use in relation to kind of circularity principles. So end of life of that product, how do you bring it back in to look at how you use components of that or look at circular principles more broadly. So you actually shrink your reliance on the supply chain, saving money at the same time. And these factors coming together to give flexibility, right, options for that company to think about, OK, we paint a vision like that in 10 years time and just some of those components.

17:43What are the sorts of scenarios right now I want to play out and decisions I want to make on the back of it? So, you know, the climate risk being one part of a broader kind of external environment and internal environment for businesses to take into account of when looking at resilience. Yeah. So when you think about the conversation, then are you seeing resilience taking a bigger role in terms of that is how companies are thinking about some of these different risks or is it still catching up? So I would say resilience is the word I hear more and more now. And I think that's a good thing. Right.

18:21I think it's a good thing. I think sometimes and it's quite a bizarre thing for a global sustainability leader to say, but sometimes actually I'm silent about the word sustainability in my title. I just talk about resilience. Yes. because it is about some I think the the language we use and depending on your stakeholders they're gonna come at it with their own personal opinions then their business kind of opinions on it and the word sustainability can be quite emotive right right to people so but resilience everyone wants that. Yeah. And it's a much more positive story. And it and it puts it at the heart of making sure that business is is here in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years time, rather than opening up a potential debate about but is the science right or wrong.

19:21And that's where I really think, you know, us as a profession, you know, we've, we haven't won the business argument by being right about the science. No. And we're not going to. Language matters, right? And quite frank, money talks. So you mentioned reporting earlier, and I'd be remiss since I'm focused on reporting, not to ask you about it. And I think there's a few angles to my question. One, we're going to talk about interoperability. I know that's top of mind, but also just what role you think reporting plays in this broader conversation? Yeah, again, huge topic. And often when we talk about reporting, I often distinguish between corporate reporting and the regulations that we're seeing in that space.

20:10And then actually, I like to use more kind of terms around performance insights, because this is kind of driving me to the kind of core of the answer around your question, what value does the kind of reporting bring this is all about data right and it and it's that insight that can enhance decision making for the board coming back to actually you know that supply chain example when company is really worried about supply chain resilience because of geopolitics or they're really worried about access to critical minerals because of politics because of concentration risk. Well, actually, some of the data that a sustainability team holds in those topics is incredibly insightful for options, right?

20:58And this is about options. So I come back to reporting and say there's huge value from the data, the richness of data, and it's moved on loads. Again, another client this morning was saying, you know, back six years ago when they looked at their sustainability information, they would probably say you know at least half was a lot of assumptions a lot of estimates today she could confidently say oh that's 90 accurate actual data and then the power of that data for that added insight i think is incredible absolutely incredible well i think the other thing with data that's so interesting to me is i think we have a lot of multinationals that have one reporting here, one reporting there, maybe EU, maybe ISSB, California.

21:44And if you look at the fungible units of data, it makes it all easier. So I think there's so much focus. Can I use the same reporting twice? Well, I think you need to use the same data twice. And then that gives you so much more flexibility. And then to your point, it also supports your broader story. But just curious if you're seeing companies really focus on that part of the message. Yeah, I think that's spot on, Heather, right? This isn't about the same report using that. This is about the data and almost, you know, coming back and I'm no kind of technology expert, data expert, but, you know, coming back to that one data lake in that sense where through actually, again, AI, you know, you can use AI to then get to the answers for the different needs.

22:27But all of that data being in one place is the starting point, is the gold, really. so Lynn we're here together in New York for New York Climate Week and you touch on a few of the things that you've heard but just curious any other key messages that you're hearing as you're talking and participating in different sessions yeah one that's that's really stuck with me actually is about the whole debate about AI right it'd be remiss of me not to mention it in well in any podcast or any kind of conversation right now and of course there are different angles to this from a sustainability perspective.

23:04It's been fascinating to have conversations with clients talking about emissions from AI. And I think there's probably a wide held kind of feeling or assumption from many that emissions from AI, oh my gosh, this is terrible usage of AI, it's terrible. With everyone I've spoken to, and including ourselves actually, as a firm, the emissions from our AI usage are, you know, like up to maximum 0.5%. It's very small. Tiny. Right now. Right. Could change. Could change. But right now, so there's something about AI and understanding and having the facts, the data, to be able to at times bust a few myths that might be out there or perceptions that are there that we just need to get underneath.

23:54underneath. There was another statistic released, I forget who by but that AI was three times more efficient than the resources that it consumed. Right. So, again, some of that business benefits, not to move away from there are a number of other areas. Yes, water. I mean, there's lots of issues. And, you know, we can get into a big debate about social kind of issues and workforce and the anxiety that is there right now. But there is something, I think, where, again, coming back, we need the data to show or to prove some of these hypotheses that we currently have. But the big thing that stood out for me this week, which I really liked, was around the role of the sustainability professional in relation to responsible ethical use of AI.

24:45And a number of clients saying that, actually, yeah, it's the CSO who has said we've got a role to play here we need to actually make sure our businesses have the right governance the right policy in place in respect of responsible ethical kind of use of AI and then we need to absolutely champion it across the organization that really stood out for me and was a kind of light bulb moment saying yes of course it fits yes from a ESG perspective, but also because the role the CSO often plays in that organization of the breadth of knowledge. Right. And just to think about the broader landscape and what this may mean.

25:23So Lynn, maybe to wrap things up today, then as you talk to different organizations and now you have a platform to talk to a lot of organizations, what is a key piece of advice you give right now to someone who I would say to answer the spectrum, the company that is at the forefront of dealing with some of these issues and then what if you have the listener who's thinking my company is not doing any of these things so i i would two pieces of advice yeah okay so the first one the company that's really out there and kind of leading edge i would say thank you first of all that's excellent and i would say gosh like share share share share excellent advice um let let all of us learn from you in terms of how and the how not just the what you're doing but how how did you manage to get the traction how did you get that business case through um share like share and then for the the companies the individuals that might be at the other end I would say have confidence in what you bring your knowledge your understanding of the business and I would say don't try and do it all.

26:32Find that first quick win. Go out there to kind of see how can you start to learn a bit more of the language of the business. I heard some great examples again about a CSO that spent, you know, nine days with their team going through financial kind of training to really upskill them in their business action more broadly. So I'd say take that leap in terms of developing yourself in that way to learn the language of your business. It really, really matters. All right. Well, Lynn, you've given us a lot to think about and definitely a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for joining me and I look forward to talking to you again.

27:09Thanks, Heather.