Fighting Imposter Syndrome: Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin

25:18There's a term for it. It's called the Denning-Kruger effect. And that's when people aren't experts, but they believe that they are. And so there's a whole nother word for that. So you are not an imposter. Likely, if you experience this, I would say 9.9 times out of 10, you are not an imposter at all. You've just set a standard that is unrealistic to reach. And part of learning how to kind of move from it is being able to understand that you can be expert, competent, and make mistakes and be human and flub. And I think that's what I also think has been really important to me as someone who speaks about this, is to recognize my own mistakes, to recognize my own humanity, to talk about what it feels like for me to be inside of it So you know that I'm not talking from on high.

26:09I actually have lived it. And my TED talk really talked about one of the most vulnerable moments of my career where imposter syndrome was at its height. I remember feeling embarrassed when I would talk to my family about what was going on at work. And I would feel embarrassed about the way that they responded to me. And they were trying to be helpful, but they were just like, what is wrong with you? Like, why can't you leave this terrible situation? And I just didn't feel like I deserved better. And, you know, so it was really important for me in the TED Talk to share that experience because I know a lot of people have had really what feels like super shameful experiences related to this.

26:44Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:And I wanted to help people be able to talk about them. If I can sort of expand on that moment, I like basically you were talking about a toxic work environment. it. And part of, I think what I felt from you was that you have this Ivy league education, you hold a doctorate. And there was this notable quote from your husband at the time where he said, if you work as hard for yourself as you do for other people, you'd be unstoppable. And so everyone around you was telling you how capable you were, how smart you were. And can you explain why that just didn't help? Yeah, because I didn't believe it.

27:24Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:I believed it was all a mistake. Like I believe I got led into my doc at the time. I believe I got led into my doctoral program as an accident. I actually even said that the first day I was there. Yeah. And my mentor said to me, I was coming out of the room after a day of orientation on the first day. And in doctoral programs, you're like one of five students. And so I came out and I was like, everyone was older than me, had had some of them had had already had master's degree, multiple master's degrees. and I came out and I said to my mentor, I said, he said, how do you feel after the first day?

27:50Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:I said, I feel like I don't belong here. Like it's been a mistake. And he's like, well, I guess we're about to find out. And so he didn't say you're not, it's not a mistake. He said like, we're about to find out if it was a mistake. So then it made me think, well, then it could have been a mistake because it was part of the committee as part. So it really just like created, then I started overworking over function. But I think that's the reason I never believed any of it belonged to me. And I think that's been the process I've had to go through is really beginning to accept and take in my credibility, my experience, my expertise.

28:18Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Like I think you saying, you know, earlier that I'm an expert in the field, like it used to make me anxious. It used to make me feel like that's not right, really. And now I can hold it. And so I think it really took my own work on being able to internalize the things that have led me to, you know, to those successes. But it took, it took a while. Here's where I feel confused personally. I feel like I go in and out of this. There are moments where I feel really confident and there are moments where like, if like similar to what you just said, if I'm a guest on a podcast and someone reads this really beautiful sort of glowing intro, I want to hide under my sheets.

28:59Like I am like, oh my God. And I get really sort of humble and meek almost. And I'm wondering if it's tied to self-worth?

29:10Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Yes, there is a direct correlation to self-worth and imposter syndrome. And I think that feeling of coming in and out is going to always be there, right? Like you can see, you know, I'm quote unquote, an expert in the field and been in a lot of therapy and, you know, I'm a third person myself and I still come in and out of it. The difference today is that I know I can get out of it. In the past, I thought it was me. Like I thought this is who I am. I'm actually an imposter and I faked this and now I have to prove something that I'm not I don't believe that anymore I know that I am capable and I sometimes have to kind of deal with that residual feeling that comes up but I know how to deal with it and I know how to get it back down in a in a pretty expedient way yeah and I think that's the difference is like people ask me all the time like you know does it ever go away and I don't I don't know it doesn't really but the volume goes down on it like where before it would shatter an experience like I had an experience early on and I was doing one of my first podcasts and I got freaked out in the podcast and almost went blank.

30:13And that's how it can actually affect your performance and actually affect whether or not you're going to be an expert is like really affecting you so badly that you do start to underperform. And I think that's what it makes me think about when you're talking about your story is like you're minimizing yourself and you're like trying to be humble and you're downplaying

30:31Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:yourself in order to kind of level set expectations about how fabulous you're going to be. instead of standing in that fabulousness, you know? And I think that's what I'm trying to kind of help people do is stand in their fabulousness. It's already there. There's nothing to do. Yes. I recently had this revelation about the difference between self-confidence and self-worth because I've always felt like I was a confident kid. I feel like a confident person. And so I kind of ignored the conversations about self-worth and they are totally different. They are totally different. I have a self-worth issue.

31:05And so I just noticed it a few weeks ago, to be honest. It's interesting that we're having this conversation now. But I do find, and it could be that I'm just talking to more women, which is very possible. I do find this to be more prevalent in successful women, women in general, but definitely career women. Is there any data or research to back that up? from my experience, and this is not from the data, there has actually been no studies to look at this. But from my experience in practicing for 15 years and looking at this topic all the time, experiencing it through different people's lives, there's two different cycles in imposter syndrome.

31:44The first one is the overwork cycle.

31:46Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:So when you get triggered around your performance anxiety, you're not good enough, you overwork and overfunction. I think those are the women who probably become the super successful, super driven, super. And the second cycle is self-sabotage. And And I think there's a lot of people who experience imposter syndrome who actually do fail because they set themselves up in a self-sabotage cycle through the performance anxiety. And so I have met many a person who hasn't lived up to their quote unquote potential or the things that they wanted to do because they have to break the self-sabotage behaviors that they have associated with imposter syndrome.

32:19So I think there's a whole subset of people who haven't gotten to where they've wanted to because of it. What does self-sabotage, because what does that look like? I think of self-sabotage, like sort of, I guess, the more extreme ideas of it, like, you know, having an issue with alcohol or not showing up on time. What are sort of the implicit ways that we self-sabotage? Yeah. So I think the most classic way is like procrastination followed by intense bursts of overwork. So oftentimes because we are capable and competent, we're going to try to get it done. But sometimes those intense bursts of work work to get the thing done.

32:52And sometimes they aren't enough because you did need that longer period of time to deal with it. So in those cases, you can often fall short or not. And then that sort of becomes a reinforcing notion that, yes, I am a fraud. I don't belong here. Meanwhile, it's really the self-sabotage issue that becomes, you know, the issue itself. And even if you look at my own story, as I'm talking about the toxic boss, and I am not doing anything proactive for my search in the story. I am just like sitting around complaining with, you know, I was miserable. So I have a right to complain, but I wasn't doing anything to serve myself to move forward.

33:26And so nothing was changing. And so as a result, there is a possibility that, you know, I think about my life as a diverged in that moment. And there was a possibility I could have stayed there for years. And then I would have under functioned in terms of my capability. I wasn't stuck in a job. I've been underpaid. There's a lot of stories like this where people are under functioning, underpaid, because they can't help themselves in the ways that they want to because they can't break that self-sabotage cycle. I was interested to see that you wrote that imposter syndrome isn't just work-related.

33:58I have only thought about it in terms of work. How else does it show up? How does it show up in our personal lives?

34:06Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Yeah, because imposter syndrome has such a performance-related component to it, right? You don't feel like you're performing at whatever level. It's true of like anytime you feel like you are, you know, engaged in something that's being, you know, potentially evaluated or that it matters in some dynamic where there's some other person involved. So I've seen it in people's parenting. I've seen it in people's like relationships. So because of all the other dynamics, right, because there's issues around codependence and there's issues around over-functioning, all of these dynamics often show up in other parts of their lives.

34:39And what I found, interestingly enough, in my clinical work, as I work with people on imposter syndrome and eradicating it. We focus mostly in the beginning on work. And so we deal with it and we get through sort of like in my book, the nine steps and everything. And they begin to feel like they're releasing themselves from imposter syndrome. And then they sort of start to look at their personal life and they're like, oh my God, it's here too. And then they start to then start to do the work around their personal lives and disentangling it from their personal lives as well, which can be also really freeing, but also really scary.

35:10Yeah.

35:11Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Because work is like, we can change workplaces. It's really harder to change personal lives. That work is a lot deeper. Do you think it presents in romantic relationships? Almost certainly. You know, the idea of over-functioning, the idea of not feeling good enough in the relationship, the feeling that, you know, you're going to be left. Because I think a lot of people worry, you know, when they have imposter syndrome about being fired. You know, it's like, it's the same concept in a relationship of being left. You know, They're like, I have to work hard because they're cutting people and I'll be the one who's cut if I don't.

35:45And the same kind of frenzy can be in a relationship as well. Is that if we're talking about sort of the archetypes, that's maybe more for the anxious people? Yeah, anxious, codependent, people pleasing, those kinds of dynamics that are occurring in the imposter syndrome just replicate in personal.

36:05Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Because you developed this in the first place from a personal relationship. This came from your early experiences. So the fact that it would still be there makes complete sense. I've definitely experienced that in romantic relationships and wasn't aware. I was aware that I was doing it, but I was unaware of where it was coming from. And I had a therapist who said something that sort of feels close to what you're saying, which is this feeling might never go away, but just noticing it will help you ease whatever is happening. And the noticing is what I think is so important here. Yes. I mean, I think that's critically important.

36:46So the awareness can lead to behavior change, right? Because if you see it, you then feel like, do I really want to do that next behavior again? Like, might there be something different that I might do this time that actually might be healthier or helpful for me. And so I do

37:02Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:think that's the fundamental piece I'm really trying to promote with people is really getting an education into the idea of it, what it really is. And if you do struggle with it, thinking about being aware in a way that just changes even one thing. So I saw you post on Instagram some imposter syndrome self-love languages, which I loved reading about. And the reason I loved reading about it was it made me feel like this is not all doom and gloom. There are ways, like you said, to notice it, to maybe not heal it, but make it settle more so. What are some tactical things that we can do to show ourselves a little love when we are feeling it, when we do notice it?

37:45Yeah. So I think like one of the things is really learning how to recognize the compliments or relational and that, you know, when somebody gives you a compliment, they're actually trying to extend and connect with you and to really receive that back without trying to dismiss it or qualify it or make them, you know, disconnect from you. Because it's a disconnection when you're like, well, you know, because then they're feeling like, oh, God, maybe I shouldn't have said it that way. Maybe, you know, so I think it's really important to just accept it. And I think really take it in and thank them.

38:14And what I often tell people is like, actually jot it down. Maybe you can't hear it right now, but maybe you want to actually jot it down and write it down, put it somewhere for you to read later. Because part of that is really working on one of the factors in terms of developing self-esteem is really being able to take in other people's perceptions of your work or the things that you're doing. And so without doing that, you're missing this element of self-esteem building that you're getting.

38:38Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:So it is a love language that we really reject, but we have to work on accepting. And I do also think the other pieces of sort of the things that we can do are really also appreciating a small win, really being able to not have to have some mind blowing win in order to feel like you can celebrate yourself. But even the tiny wins, even the wins that are fraught with mistakes and issues and all of those things, being able to celebrate those as well. And I think also for me, like there's another love language that I learned along the way, which is setting boundaries. Like I was always afraid of setting boundaries and feeling like if I set a boundary, someone wouldn't like me or love me anymore.

39:16And to be honest, the people who love me the most accept my boundaries and respect my boundaries. And so it's brought me all kinds of better relationships in my life. You gave us three great ones. Thank you for that. I think I've been calling this imposter syndrome because that's what we know it as colloquially, but you call it an imposter phenomenon. So from here on out, I'm rebranding. We're calling it imposter phenomenon.

39:42Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Yes. Why is it a phenomenon? Because it's a it's a common occurrence, right? It's not. And I think that that's how it was originally termed by Clance and Imes in like 1978, when they did the original paper that began to talk about this. And this received a lot of criticism. But I think people really don't put it in context and really recognize that this was a very important finding in the 1970s that really began a conversation around how do we shift this, right? And I think that's so important. And they wanted to suggest it's not a diagnosis. You can't find it in the DSM. You can't find it in the ICD, which are diagnostic manuals.

40:18It is something that is super common and can be experienced and also can be changed. And so I think it's a really important distinction. I often say syndrome because nobody knows it as phenomenon. In the academic literature, if you're searching academic literature, it's always known as phenomenon. Interesting. It's never known as syndrome. Yeah. So I actually just was part of an academic book that came out by the American Psychological Association. So if people are interested in this in an academic way, this amazing book came out in the spring called The Imposter Phenomenon. It was edited by Kevin Copley, who is one of the leading researchers in imposter phenomenon today.

40:56And it's all these chapters about all these really interesting ways in which imposter phenomenon appears in different arenas, formats, things you need to consider. There's a whole chapter on medicine and the ways it shows up in medicine. And so it talks about the most recent research and it's called the imposter phenomenon. It talks about these most recent research articles. So it's really blossoming and I hope it continues. There's been a lot of backlash around it, sort of suggesting that you're oppressing people by telling them they have it. And in my 15 years of doing this work, whether directly doing it or indirectly doing this imposter phenomenon work, I haven't seen a single person who felt oppressed by hearing this conversation.

41:39In essence, they felt empowered to go do something about it. Oftentimes the people who told them that they might be experiencing really cared about them and wanted to see them just take in their full greatness and weren't seeing them do that. And so I think that narrative needs to shift. That narrative is deeply disturbing to me that this is not something we need to be talking about and that it's oppressive. There's no research that suggests that.

42:03Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:It's just become a clickbait kind of social conversation that I think is really dangerous, frankly. I agree. Information always feels validating because otherwise you think that it's outside of you, that it's out of your control. It's just something that you said that you have to live with for your whole life. Yeah. And I've seen people, I've, you know, done talks and people have come up to me and said that they have told people that they experience imposter syndrome. And then they've said that somebody said to them, it doesn't exist. And they felt so shamed and they felt like they had to go back into hiding around it.

42:38And so I think that's what that conversation is doing is shaming people who feel like this, which feels deeply disturbing to me. Yes. Well said. We talked a little bit about gender and I learned from our conversation that it's less about context and environment than I anticipated it was, that it's more from childhood. But when you talk about the symptoms or the way that it shows up and you talk about overwork and overperform, I can't help but think of how that disproportionately affects anybody in a minority group at work. What's the link or the tie there? Yeah, so we call it the double impact of imposter syndrome.

43:24So it's this experience when, you know, for people who are marginalized,

43:29Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:and experience like imposter syndrome internally, like I'm not good enough, I don't belong here, and then get external communications from the environment that are discriminatory or biased that say, yeah, maybe you don't belong here. Maybe you're not good enough. Maybe you got in here because of a diversity program, maybe you're a diversity hire. These kinds of messages then reinforce imposter syndrome and make people feel like it must be true. I'm receiving messages from the outside world that this is not the case, that I don't actually belong here. And so what the research shows is that, especially for marginalized communities, that having relationships with people along the identity lines they feel most impacted are at similar levels and at senior levels becomes really important to them in helping to deal with these external communications around discrimination and bias.

44:17They need some place to process it so that they can realize this is discrimination and bias. And here's the way strategically deal with it. And don't take this in because internalizing those messages becomes really then hard to dismantle the imposter syndrome because you then feel it's coming from both directions. That seems really difficult when there's like a lack of a pipeline. Yes. At any organization. Yes. Which oftentimes means you have to do it externally. Like you have to look for professional organizations externally that have, you know, they may not have internal, but they often, they may not understand your unique circumstance of your organization, but they often understand the dynamics.

44:55They've been there.

44:56Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:And you want to find somebody clearly who gets it, who really is kind of mature in their own racial and ethnic identity in order to kind of like, or, you know, sexual identity, to be able to kind of recognize bias. Because somebody might also gaslight you and say that that's not what happens and everyone gets it for merit. And if that's the case, they're not the right person to support you in this. My mind's sort of spinning hearing you say this because I did a morning show in Chicago a few years ago and it was the first time that I had another female co-host. I'd always had male co-hosts and talking to her was the most validating experience I had ever had in my industry because she made me feel like I wasn't complaining.

45:36I wasn't crazy that she also had these feelings. And so she wasn't my senior, she was my peer, but even talking it through with her was just so helpful and relaxing.

45:48Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:That's exactly what I'm talking about, Danielle. It becomes really critically important for you to not feel crazy, to feel like these are real experiences, but they don't belong to you. You do not need to internalize them or even combat them in a way that makes you over-function or over-work. You can actually just know that they exist and feel like, how am I going to handle this? I know it exists in the world and this is my particular work world. How am I going to strategically deal with it? And there are many ways. You know, one of the reasons I started Pretty Smart was when I was going through probably the most difficult time in my life, nothing made me feel better.

46:24I mean, I was doing therapy. I was working out. I was trying all the things. And the one thing that gave me any sort of reprieve was reading or hearing other women's stories. And it brings me to that validation aspect that you're talking about throughout all of this. And so when I think about this podcast, fundamentally, it's about sharing women's stories. And imposter syndrome fundamentally is about how we perceive ourselves and how we recall these stories that we tell ourselves.

46:54Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:beautifully put Danielle I love that so much yes thank you yes from your experience with this is there a way that we can step back and determine what is real versus what is the story we are telling ourselves in our heads yeah we talk about that in book one really about sort of how to recognize like things like automatic negative thoughts um that may be coming up and being triggered for you to think, you know, like, I'm not good enough, I don't belong here. And really recognizing that part of your job with an automatic negative thought is to challenge it. So there's a quote that says, you know, you are not your thoughts, you are the observer of your thoughts by Amit Ray.

47:36Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:And I really am trying to train people to, you know, this is a very cognitive behavioral like technique that works very well with imposter syndrome to really help you recognize, like, where did that thought come from? Where's the data behind that thought? Are you know, you make a mistake and you're like, I'm so stupid. Like, where's the evidence that you're stupid? Like, you know, if you can't find it, you can't say it, you know? So it just can't be the fact that you're labeling yourself without some kind of data or proof. And so, and ask other people, is that the way you see me? Do you see me as, and say the words, do you see me as stupid?

48:07Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Like say the words and sometimes coming out of your mouth, you can recognize like, this is a going on in my head, but when I say it out loud, it feels, it feels not great. And so like, I think that can help you to kind of really think about then why is that part of my story and then then thinking about re-narrating that story and we talk about that too about these narrative approaches in the book around like how to really rethink the way you think about your successes your accomplishments the things that you're doing and the ways that you represent them to yourself and to others and to watch the way that languaging is happening because I do think that the story you tell yourself is a very very important story to the way that you show up in the world and the things you think you can and can't do.

48:48And so it makes total sense that when you, you know, I've seen that actually with my clients too, they can be in the middle of a really desperate, you know, anxiety spiral and they'll watch on YouTube people talking about anxiety, like, and they just kind of fall into this like place where they feel comforted by the stories because they feel like other people have experienced it too. And I'm not alone. And so I do think like, you know, that's really important to find that camaraderie and also to begin to recognize that you can tell different stories. Like you can still be, you can still be struggling and still tell a different story about, you know, that struggle.

49:21Dr. Lisa, I love the idea of asking people around you that you trust. Is this how you see me? It can be really vulnerable, but I think for me, part of what hurts about imposter syndrome is this idea that you have to face it alone in your brain and it's constantly you against your brain. And so to reach out to your community, there's something so just relaxing or easing about that. Yeah. And it can be really scary because oftentimes you are sharing this for the first time or for very, you know, for very, you know, and it's in limited ways, but it is such a part of like dealing with the shame of it.

50:02Yeah. The difficulty of being stuck in your head and getting out of your head and having people around you that I consider like imposter syndrome confidants that you can actually share the deep

50:12Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:dark thoughts that really are embarrassing, you know, about what's going on internally and why you're behaving in a certain way. And you want people who can actually listen and hear it and don't dismiss it. And don't be like, why are you thinking that? Why are you feeling that? You just want people to hear you and validate you. And sometimes it takes training them. You have to train them to hear you. You'd be like, I appreciate that thought that I don't deserve it. But what I really need right now is just a listening ear to just hear me and just, you know, validate what I'm saying as like you hear me and you can, you can support me in that, in hearing that.

50:46I'm not going to stay here forever, but I need to be here right now, you know? Listening to hear and understand versus listening to reply. Yes. Yeah. And you have to sometimes train people to do it because their instinct may be to protect

51:01Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:you in a way that just makes you feel bad by kind of saying you shouldn't feel like that. It's like, yeah, should or shouldn't is the question here. It is. It's what I am feeling. Right. The shoulds are the worst. Yes. I always do a little rapid fire. So I have a few for you, which is the first is what is your proudest moment? Oh, I think that's a hard one. Like I immediately came to mind was the first book. And then right after that thought came my kids giving birth to my kids. How old are they? They're 12 and 14. Amazing. If you weren't a psychologist, is there another career path you would have tried?

51:42Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:I would have been a hairstylist. That was easy. I would have been a hairstylist. I tried to go to hair school while I was in my PhD program, but they wouldn't accept me because they said, you have to finish your PhD program first before you can go to hair school. First of all, in both careers, everybody tells you their secrets. So I get it. Yes. It was actually quite a lot of synergy, but it didn't happen. Someone sits in a chair and tells you their secrets. Okay. Something that you're not ashamed to admit you're not so great at? Oh, I'm not very great with my hands. I have terrible handwriting.

52:13Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:And I'm, you know, I'm very sloppy of a handwriter. So I remember like people saying like I had a handwriting handwriting of a doctor, but not in their class. I couldn't write like that in their class. But I have a doctor in front of your name. It's okay.

52:29Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Yeah, now I do. Yeah. Okay, what's something you're great at that we wouldn't know? I love crochet. I crochet a lot. I love to crochet. It's like one of my favorite things that I do on the side. I just love it so much. That's super cool. Is there a book that you've read that you think everybody should read, something that really impacted you? I think I would say The First 90 Days. It's a very good book about how to approach entering into a workplace proactively and thinking about not only doing your job well, but also the resources around you to kind of do your job well. So I think that's a really strategic book to kind of connect to.

53:12That's a great book. Starting at a new job is just one of the worst feelings ever.

53:18Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:Yeah. And it can be very triggering for imposter syndrome. New job, new role can be like some of the common triggers. So that book is a really good practical advice giving book about what you should be doing besides like just doing your job well and like focusing on being a hard worker. There's a lot of other components that are very vital to thriving. Thank you for that. Hey, I do a pretty smart question. So you let me know when to stop. Stop. Okay. This is a hard one. What do you know for sure? Oh, I know for sure that love is the most important thing about life and like building the people that you love around you.

53:56Dr. Lisa Orbé-Austin:And, and, you know, I think giving love to the world in a lot of ways is really important. And so like, you know, these books are like my love letter to the world. So I think like that, that's, that's the most important thing I always think about is love, you know, my last question is what's the smartest decision you've ever made? Marrying my husband. That was easy. He's just the best. I mean, he just, He just brought like wonder and possibility and risk and like all these really fun things I was never really comfortable with into my life. You know, he's really just opened the world. It's amazing and beautiful.

54:34Thank you for that. Yeah, you're welcome.

54:41Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

55:01Okay, here's the thing. Life doesn't exactly slow down, and neither do I. Between work and travel and podcasting and everything else on my calendar, I need clothes that can keep up. That's why I'm all about cotton. It's natural, breathable, soft, and doesn't shed microplastics when washed. Plant, not plastic. So whether it's a perfectly worn in t-shirt, elevated loungewear, or the cozy cotton PJs that you'd prefer to wear all day long, cotton always delivers. It's comfortable, makes getting dressed easy, and then it somehow always looks good. Cotton, the fabric of our lives. The game started. Got your dad.

55:36I'm on it, ma. Hola, pa. Hello, hijita. I can't hear you. I'm at the stadium in Monterrey. Go! Hear a shout, go altogether. Get nonstop talk, tax, and data in the U.S., Mexico, and Canada with T-Mobile, America's best network. Switch on the T-Life app or on T-Mobile.com slash connectate. On qualifying plans not for extended international use, you must reside in the U.S. And primary usage must occur on our network. Best based on analysis by UGLO Speed Test Intelligence Data to age 2025. We learned how to love dogs from the dogs that loved us and waited for us to get home from school. They were the dogs that raised us.

56:14We return the love with Pedigree Dog Food. It was good then, and it's better now. Every bowl has 100 % complete nutrition, supporting six health essentials, and now it includes vitamin good bites, a nutrient boost your dog will love. Pedigree. Good then. Better now. It's called soccer. It's called football. Uh, soccer. Foot-ball. Domino's best deal ever lets you get any pizza, including stuffed crust, with any toppings for$9.99. We can agree on that. Yeah, fully. So, pineapple? Don't ruin it. Get any pizza, including stuffed crust, with any toppings for$9.99. Finally something everyone can get behind.

56:59And if the refs disagree, that's between them and Domino's. Which means the only thing left to fight over is who's ordering. Domino's. Price is higher for some locations. Excludes XL and specialty pizzas. Select this offer from$615 to$726. Online only. Size availability varies by crust type. Max 7 toppings. 6 for pan and New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery. Prices participation delivery area and charges may vary. M &M's popped caramel do sound different. Oh no, people are going to be obsessed. What do you mean? People hate the sound of chewing. Maybe they won't like the crunch.

57:34Maybe we're saved. Wait a minute. Yellow. Have you been eating them this whole time? Mmm, so tasty. Hands off us. M &M's popped caramel. It's more fun together. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.