Go First: Gabby Reece on Courage, Self-Trust, and Living Without Regret

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24:51Gabby Reece:Are you kidding me? An oil change is the last thing you have time for. So drive into Take 5 and let our techs change your oil, check your tires, top off your fluids, and have you back on the road pit stop fast. All while you stay in your car. No putting your entire schedule on hold. No upsells, no problem. So you can get back to your to-do list. Or not. Find your nearest shop at Take5.com. Take 5, the stay in your car 10-minute oil change.

25:18In your first book, you wrote, everything a woman does has an emotional component. paying attention to my emotional side without surrendering to it is one of the toughest parts of playing professional sports. I'm curious how your relationship to your emotional side has changed since you wrote that in 1997. Are you more emotional now or less, or just in tune with it differently?

25:40Gabby Reece:Well, okay. First, let me preface by saying I'm probably not the most emotional person there is. I'm very analytical, right? I'm not afraid to show my emotion. It's just not my actual natural process. Like if you watch movies, if you watch, you know, Stepmom. Yeah. That movie kills me. Are you crying in Stepmom? I mean, like if I have my period, I might. I don't know. See, or if I'm in an airplane, I'll cry all the time, right? I think it's because you're in fight or flight. And so you're just like, oh my God, the dog's still at the train station, you know, waiting for the owner who's never coming, you know?

26:13Gabby Reece:Yeah. I think the most important way that it's shown up for me in these years since then is in business. If you're in the role, because these are just roles, right, where you are having to be the boss and say it straight, get rid of somebody, make a change. I have really learned to not have to be aggravated to do that. Because before I'd be like, well, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I don't want to make changes. And now it's like, hey, listen, something has to happen. I can be respectful. I can try to be loving, but you still have to be direct. And you're probably going to say something that someone's not going to like.

26:51Gabby Reece:And so in that, I've gotten way better at being okay with somebody not liking something I'm going to say. How do I shed that? I feel like that's my final frontier. And I hear it from so many people that sit in this chair. It's a big frontier. Did you shed it or was it gradual? It's been gradual. It's been gradual and a lot of practice. Practice in my relationship. Practice in my business life. Practice with my kids. So it's the practice of, I need to say this. So what I do is I check first inside. Am I scared? Because then I'm going to, me personally, I'm going to come out and be kind of aggressive.

27:28Gabby Reece:Because that's what I do. I lean into things when I get scared, but I use force and aggression. It's like, okay, we'll calm down with that. So if you're mad, you're usually scared. If you're feeling aggressive, you're usually scared. So it's going, no, the change just has to happen. What I try to do now is just say, are you coming from a loving place that's pretty still and clear about what all the goals are and then be okay with that? And what I say to people is don't apologize if you don't answer your email in the first 30 seconds and don't end a conversation with, if that's okay, because it may not be.

28:08Gabby Reece:And that's not what we're talking about, if you're okay. Now, if it's an interpersonal relationship, I might be like, hey, listen. But if we're talking, especially in the work environment, it's being like, this is just part of the deal. Okay. In this vein, I need your POV on something. Okay. I come from the Gabby Reese kind of hard knock school of thought. Like, if you want something, you push through. Simone Biles in the Olympics. I'm going to say something that's not going to be popular. My first instinct was, you're at the Olympics. Figure it out. Now is not the time. Like, mind over matter.

28:44Once I understood what the twisties were, I understood that it was dangerous. I get it. And we don't have to pick her specifically, but the conversation of mental health in sport. Where do you stand? Are you hard knocks school all the way, or is there a middle ground?

28:59Gabby Reece:Well, let's talk about the Simone Biles thing for a second, because what you don't maybe realize subconsciously, I'm going to take a stab at it, maybe because I have my own experience about it. Naomi Osaka had just come up prior to that, right? And she withdrew. Now, if you get hit with a tennis ball, it's like volleyball. It's like, you're going to be okay. So in that case, I might be like, hey, listen, you're a professional. You're paid tens of millions of dollars. So if you're going to give all the money back to your Japanese sponsors and say, hey, I'm taking a break, I'd be like, okay, cool.

29:28Gabby Reece:But for me, it's like you can't have the one and not do the other. Now in the Simone Biles case, because it's dangerous, that had a nuance that unless you're in that situation where it's life and death, like you break your neck. My husband does a sport that's very dangerous. That might be a little different and it might be interesting that she was able to do that then. But it was strange because she'd already been a winner and it was like, well, you knew what you were competing for and signing up for, but maybe this was an unexpected variable. In general, work is hard, sports is hard. I think you have to expect that.

30:08So maybe I appreciate

30:10Gabby Reece:the conversation and parts of it are an overcorrection. I think I'm in line with you. I also think it's interesting that oftentimes women are the ones that open things up to a larger conversation, but we've only really heard about it with women in sport. We haven't really heard about men talking about mental health in sport, and it definitely exists. Absolutely. And by the way, there's far more men playing sports. The expectation is completely different, but this is where I also think biology comes into play. You know, even women training. So a lot of times with female athletes, they train in certain ways almost harder than male athletes.

30:46Gabby Reece:And I always likened it to, hey, if I'm going from me sitting here with you to I have to go compete, the jump for me sometimes is a much bigger chasm than a guy going, hey, cool, bro, what's up? And then like, now we're going to go and award each other. They can go like that. That's why I always say if you see female athletes that have a lot of brothers, they make the transition really quickly. So I think we're just talking about different types of people, different hormones, testosterone, right? Like all these things that come into it where that's why, for example, we've just had all these fires in LA.

31:28Gabby Reece:The firemen go into the burning building or do the thing without questioning. And a lot of that I think is a physiological and biological thing that everybody wants to ignore. And my husband has a joke that women are far more valuable than men. Think about it. In a certain way. Just for survival. And so he's like, you can't afford just to huck yourself. He's like, us? We can go in there and do it, right? And it's a beautiful thing. But it shows up also in sport why in certain way guys are like, yeah, we just go. And I think it's so great. Because it is. It's just a little more complex. I wrote this down because I know I'm not going to say it right.

32:09So for years, women's beach volleyball players were required to wear bikinis. But men were wearing shorts and t-shirts?

32:17Gabby Reece:Well, yeah, because a lot of times they have their number. Like we had it on our tops. So they would have their one or two. So you knew which country and which number player they were. I think that rule has since changed. Brazil just won the gold and one of the players was in shorts. So as of 2012 in London, women are allowed to wear shorts and a tank top. The shorts are so pretty short that they have to wear. Actually, the girl from Brazil had longer shorts. Let me be really overly realistic about this. Yes. So the group, probably a bunch of guys selling beach volleyball, trying to get into the Olympics.

32:52Gabby Reece:They looked at all the things that were attractive about the sport and they went, oh, pretty ladies. And so they went, we're going to pull that lever. It's a low hanging fruit. Is it right? Probably not. But that's, I'm sure, what the thinking was. Well, I was thinking too, like I always ask the why and I'm like, well, it probably helped grow the sport. It did. And everyone can go, women should just be able to perform. Of course they should. Were you ever annoyed about it? Well, see, when I played, you know, internationally, I wore the bathing suit. I was just more uncomfortable. I always, when I played in the U.S., wore running tights because I liked the idea of not having to think about it and pull my bathing suit out of my butt and do all that stuff.

33:32Gabby Reece:but I thought, okay, well, this is what we're doing. And I wasn't spending a whole lot of time getting upset about it because the sport is so small and so vulnerable. It's so hard to make a living at that I thought, okay, I'm gonna participate in being part of something. And once you watch it, you're not sitting there going, whoa, she's hot. Of course you're recognizing this is a world-class athlete who's training. And I think that ends up transcending that she's in a bikini. Like, am I supposed to control how every viewer, what they react, think, and feel, and what they hold up is important? No.

34:08Gabby Reece:Having said that, though, I'm happy that it's like, hey, wear what you're comfortable wearing competing. You've had such a close relationship with your body from such a young age because of your athletics. What's your relationship with your body like now? I have a really peaceful relationship with my body. I wish my knees worked better. But I do the things I can do to control having a positive relationship with my body. And then I just let the chips fall where they are because I am getting older. That's part of life. But I eat well. I go to bed. I don't drink. I train very hard. The work enables me to have a freedom and also a level of acceptance.

34:48Gabby Reece:I think when we grind it out, it's because we know we're not doing all we can do. And by the way, I could still do more. I could still do better. So I love watching videos of you and Laird. You guys seem like you have a lot of fun together. And I know that you're both competitive people. Does the competition push you to do better? You're shaking your head. Don't compete with your partner. But like, do you guys compete physically at all? I can't compete with Laird. I could try to outsmart Laird here and there. No, but okay, I'll give you an example. My mom is a big workout girl and she's in her 60s.

35:22And when I go home and I'm with her, I'm really inspired to work out because I'm like, I can't believe she's doing more push-ups than me. Like, I want the best for her, but we're in competition. No, she's inspired you. Do you inspire each other?

35:36Gabby Reece:Yeah. Laird really inspires me. He really does because he's walking his own path in the truest way. And even when he's in discomfort or whatever, he's showing up in all the facets. And so I utilize him as a great source of inspiration and fun. And also, I always say I tuck in a lot behind Laird. I draft off Laird's energy. Because I'm very disciplined and I can go, but he's actually even at a higher level. And so sometimes when I'm like, oh, who wants to deal with this? I just tuck in behind him and I draft off him on the days that I don't have it. That's what I would encourage people is be that for everyone in your life, but also be surrounded by people who are that for you.

36:22Gabby Reece:Because if you want to ask me one of the biggest, you know, the most powerful levers and tools that we have, it's each other. That's really beautiful and powerful. Well, that's being on a team. When you can be better with someone else, when one and one can equal three and you know that, when you feel that harmony and those energies coming together and amplifying and you can have that in a friendship, you know this with your best girlfriends. I can even have this in moments with my children, even though I'm not looking for them to inspire me, but I can look at them and think, she's trying to do it in her life.

36:56Gabby Reece:That's pretty great. So it's be that. But that's really more the goal, right? When I'm going through my life, I'm trying to be that. Like if you come across me at the grocery store and I say, hey, good morning, my goal is just to leave a place a little better than when I first got there. And I find that then you attract those types of people. Well, in that vein, we met because of your going first philosophy. I read it in Tim Ferriss' book, and it really changed my life, Gabby. Where did the philosophy come from? It came from being tall. People hear me say, go first. And you'd think, like, it would be like, cut someone off on the road, get on the front of the line.

37:37Gabby Reece:And go first was developed from also reading lots of things about, I've said this quote a lot of times in Natural Born Heroes. There's a book. It says, to be a true warrior, one must be compassionate. And my whole thing is truly to be as sort of strong and badass as I can be. And what I know that means is that then I have to be a great supporter everywhere I am in life. And that could mean opening the door for somebody, saying hello first to somebody. So being 6 '3 and a female, there's an interesting permission I have to go into everybody's space because I'm a woman. If I was a 6 '3 guy, I might be able to do it with other guys, maybe not to women.

38:25Gabby Reece:As a woman, I'm allowed to freely enter everyone's space. So why would I not take advantage of my size and say, hey, how are you today? and give people permission to be open, to be friendly, to acknowledge each other. Because maybe they see me and think, I'm not going to talk to her. And so I learned that really early. It first was a tool to try to diffuse people and make them feel comfortable and connect with them. And then you just realize, oh, that's just a better way to live. I love that you named it. I didn't mean to. When I can tell you, Tim was at my house, I was with Laird and my friend Brian McKenzie, and we were all sitting there talking, and when he asked the question, I thought about it honestly.

39:11What was the question that he asked? Do you remember?

39:12Gabby Reece:Like if you had one, you know, advice. And I really thought about it, and I was like, you know, that doesn't seem like a bad place to start. I feel like it should catch wind on the internet. Like I want people to make videos going first. I think it's contagious, because you know like if you're in a room, I don't know if you've felt this, but especially in LA, people don't really talk as much to each other. They're standing alone having a drink or on their phone. And if somebody takes the initiative to go first, it breaks the ice for everybody. It's a domino effect. It's so contagious. It's very easy to do as hard as it is.

39:50Gabby Reece:I have a joke now. I've elaborated from go first to, I bully everyone around me to be polite to me. I have no problem. And weirdly, I even do weird stuff i gently will put my hand on someone's arm and if there's really like a thing i'll even gently put it on top of their shoulder which subtly also though is a dominance move it's like no we're gonna and so that is a liberty afforded to me though because of my size do you go first in your close relationships with your kids with your husband with your friends i do but i also don't need to as much. I mean, I live around a lot of people who, whether you want them to or not, they're sort of coming your way.

40:31Gabby Reece:And Laird is a very present. I can get caught up in my thoughts and lost in thoughts and planning and building and thinking and details. And Laird is here. So the other side of that sometimes is really that reminder of even if it's for five minutes. Don't be here and be here, be here. Do you think you could pinpoint the greatest benefit to making that shift in your life to going first? We live in a really loud world and it's set up that we're supposed to be at each other's throats because it's a really healthy distraction for all the naughty players to do whatever it is that they're doing. And what you learn when you go first in your day-to-day life is we're all pretty similar.

41:19Gabby Reece:We don't hate each other. Even when we're different, we connect. And it's just a reminder to me about that there is humanity everywhere. You just have to participate and be a part of it. And what that does is it allows me also, besides that kind of faith and renewed faith, I don't walk around really scared in my life. I'm not freaked out by things or you have a different opinion and it bothers me, it's like, it's okay. It's no problem. It allows me not to get swept up in the frenzy that seems to sort of taking a hold of us culturally. Speaking of going first, you were the first woman to have a Nike design deal.

42:03You made a shoe.

42:04Gabby Reece:I said, you know, I want it to feel like this when I'm training and I need that. And I even joked, I have a very big foot. I used to say to Tinker, and when I looked down at my foot, I would like it to look smaller. So he made the lines a certain way. Because also training was like an everyday thing in a uniform. And sometimes it's look good, feel good. So I would dress accordingly. But sometimes even looking at my foot and being like, I'm organized and have the footwork. And listen, it was great timing. And I was at the right place at the right time. What do you mean by that? There was plenty of other female athletes before me.

42:36Gabby Reece:But the market wasn't there yet. My generation, when I arrived, obviously Nike did the numbers and was like, oh, this is the time for that. So I was in the right place at the right time. Do you have the shoes in your house? Do you have extras? They are in like a spare bedroom closet, a few SKUs. I think we did about four or five SKUs, you know, seasons. So I have probably a version of each of that. But one thing I will say that I'm really mindful of is that happened. It was great. And there's a lot more stuff to do. Were your kids wear them ever? That's kind of cool. You know what's interesting?

43:13Gabby Reece:One thing I really want for my kids, I just had this conversation with my middle daughter. Man, cut your own path and make it big and wide. Don't look at your dad. Don't look at myself. You're your own person with your own whole thing ahead of you. Cut that path wide and do it your own way. Don't worry about, you know, what we've done. Is that something that you and Laird talk about or talked about even before having kids? I mean, I think that's our value system. And then it probably got reinforced once the girls were here as just a living practice. That's how we parent and less words, more kind of acting that way.

43:52Gabby Reece:And occasionally, like yesterday, to my middle daughter specifically, I wrote her a note and said, hey, I just want to remind you, like, you are a very intelligent, talented, powerful, smart person. Cut your own path. Because we all need that. The world is a scary place, and it's maybe scarier certainly than when I was becoming an adult. And so just to keep reinforcing, to trust yourself, and to know that the whispers that you have about yourself in your life, they should be honored because that's how we get there. If we can put your realism aside for one moment, do you think that your collab with Nike paved the way for female athlete collabs?

44:39Do you think it shifted things in the market?

44:41Gabby Reece:If I get brass taxi about it, the fact that this shoe sold well meant that the programs probably expanded. But I think that was going to happen anyway. I really do. I genuinely do. and you'd be surprised how little a lot of women's athletics has expanded even since my day. You know, Cheryl Swoops had a shoe right after me. I think the success of that whole program probably allowed it. But actually, my hope is women's athletics gets a lot more attention, but I'm always interested in how are these athletes making a living. The joke about it'll be good exposure. I'm like, listen, you're not going to pay your rent with exposure, so get serious.

45:21Gabby Reece:What's your business? What's your salary? How are you making a living? So I find it even fascinating, for example, the WNBA, the players that were in college doing name, image, and likeness deals were making more money in some ways than they were going to make than when they turned pro because their salary is such. Now you have like Caitlin Clark. So there's these interesting things that we see. Yes, the attention's great. What I'm really interested in is, great, how do we set up the business so that these women can really make a healthy living for that period of time that they're doing sports, because you'd be surprised what the average salary is.

45:56Gabby Reece:So I always look at it past kind of the woof and be like, how are they paying these athletes? And then there's the other realistic part. How many, you know, tickets are they selling? So because people say, oh, well, it's not fair. The men get paid this. Let's use the NBA. The women get paid that. It's like, okay, but if we're going to be grownups about it and look at it, how much does this side earn? How much does that side So how do we grow this so that these athletes can make a living? I've heard interesting debates around that as well. Like some of it is like chicken or the egg. Like it took a while to prop up men's basketball and they have fun halftime shows and all the things that make you want to attend a game.

46:34And we haven't done that yet for women's basketball. It feels like it's just approaching.

46:40Gabby Reece:It is. And I can add other dimensions to that idea, which people don't maybe know fully. So you can take a male athlete and you can say, gets this many rebounds and scores this many points and this, great. For whatever reason, we can take a female athlete, she can be the best at her sport, but somehow we still want to know, well, what dress is she wearing? Who is she dating? Now she has a kid, how is she juggling motherhood? And I always say, instead of getting offended by that, which I never was, I just think that we're attracted to women for different and various reasons. And we're going like, no, who is she?

47:18Gabby Reece:And so what one of the mistakes we've made is that we don't tell enough stories about the female athletes. And they should say, no, she should be able to go on the court and play and win. And that should be enough. Okay. Well, how has that worked? Or let's expand and go, she is multidimensional as male athletes are, but for whatever reason, hey, you just get your rebounds. We're good. We might want to know what car he drives. I don't know. You know what I mean? But even if you think of the best male athletes, we do care about the lore of it all. Like we want to know about LeBron James' family.

47:49Gabby Reece:But it's not the same. It just isn't. No matter what, it's just not the same. The leagues need to understand storytelling. We need to know who she is, because then the audience will get invested also in her. Do I appreciate her hard work? Do I appreciate her skill? Of course I do. But we're still marketing two different products. And so how do we do that better?

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51:13Is there a business decision that you've made that you feel particularly proud of?

51:17Gabby Reece:Not really. The fact that I've been willing to fail and continue and succeed in business and try to learn and be willing to raise my hand and say, I don't know what that means. What's EBITDA? Like, help me out. And also have my values show up in my companies. It's not that I'm proud of that. I wouldn't be able to go to bed at night consciously if I was compromising my values for the sake of business. But one thing I feel really fortunate is that I've been able to do that. You say that having a functioning body we take care of should be one of our jobs. I like how you put that. In a world that often treats wellness as an indulgence or an option even, what shaped that mindset for you?

52:00Gabby Reece:I think coming through sport, it's really simple. Let's say I've had a knee surgery while I was competing and you can't get off the toilet by yourself. Let me tell you what you learn real quick. Oh, wait a second. I think I'm grateful for my health and I need to get from here to there. And right now I have a knee that I just redid. And if I had to run out of the building, I barely could. And so looking at it from a different point of view of understanding that the gift of health is it's hard to do anything else. Ask people who get headaches. It's hard to enjoy your family. It's hard to be really good at your job if you don't feel good.

52:36Gabby Reece:And so for me, it seems logical. And going back to I don't need to learn the big lessons. It's something that I incorporate. And as females, we're not taught. I think men do a better job of like, hey, that's fun. I'm going to go do that. We somehow, it's like, oh, I have to earn that, or why are you going to have fun? It's like, well, what do you think is fun? Why don't you go find something that's fun and do that? And also learning that I'm not being not as good of a mother or wife or, you know, employee or boss if I say, oh, and by the way, I'm going to take care of myself. Having said that, women go get their nails done.

53:14Gabby Reece:They go get their hair done. They clean their cars. They get new carpets. They do all this stuff. They'd rather put a lot of things first than taking care of themselves. So really, we have the time. We just have to figure out that it is a part of our life, not something I do over here when I have time. It's just part of the deal. And consistency over quantity. If you say, well, I only have 15, great, 15 minutes. I've had newborn children. It's like I've had six-minute workouts with no equipment. It's just like you do what you can do. But the thing is, no one's going to come to you and go, you know what, why don't you go take a walk?

53:51Gabby Reece:My husband's not going to come and go, you know what, sweetie, I'll take over. It's like, no, you have to put the guardrails out and go to everybody. Hey, I'm taking 30 minutes. Unless something's on fire, don't bother me. And what it looks like when your kids are teenagers versus new babies is different. And is it hard to fit it in? Yes. Do you blow it? Yes. Do you miss days? Of course. Do you eat chocolate cake? Sure. But it's not about that. It's 80 % of the time, are you getting it done? Don't make excuses. And it'll work out. How much of your philosophy is based on science versus intuition?

54:25Gabby Reece:You know, I know so much of the science that I go, yeah, because you want to do some of the right things. But the whole goal of living is to be in a deeper relationship with yourself. How do I feel? What do I believe? What do I think? What am I seeing? And so when we farm it all out, sometimes we lose that connection. So I really am deep into my connection, but I use science as a reference, like, oh, are these best practices? But you'll find that there's very few new things to incorporate once you understand kind of how food works, how movement works, how sleep, circadian rhythm, sunlight, how all these things work.

55:04Gabby Reece:It doesn't really change that much. And again, our devices, you can put a Neuralink chip in my head, but pretty much before that moment, our biology is not different. Your approach has always been about longevity from what I've seen and heard you talk about. Are there any unconventional wellness practices that you swear by? Listen, the bonuses in technology are things like real hyperbaric chambers, real red beds, things like methylene blue. There's these little extra kind of things you can do that if you have a good practice, these can support you. If you don't do the fundamentals, it's just something to occupy yourself to make yourself think you're doing something.

55:45Gabby Reece:It's still about work. Is that why you guys created Laird Superfood? It feels like a fundamental. It's a happy accident, number one. And the great thing about Laird Superfood is this. A lot of people are already drinking coffee. Cool. Could you do something that you do every day that supports you? And so Laird Superfood, the ingredients, the fact that it's fat and caffeine together so you don't go like this and like that. You fuel your body and your brain. So there's some principles baked into the company that would be like, you know, we put adaptogens in there. So through time, it has a systemic effect on your overall health and well-being.

56:19Gabby Reece:So the other side of this is I've learned that if we can find things where we're not asking you to do one other thing, what either can we take away that's keeping you from getting your goals or what are you already doing that you could do better? It's hard to change consumer behavior. So you have to be additive. I think so. And I think Laird in particular was only drinking coffee and then realized, oh, wait, I can use this practice as a way to put some other stuff in this. Yeah. That for him, his goal was now I can serve for five hours because I use fat, which, by the way, yak butter tea, which is an ancient practice.

56:53Gabby Reece:None of this is new, right? People were doing that. So nobody's reinventing the wheel, but it's sort of saying, oh, OK, we see a lane here. We've got an opportunity and we can bring these values into this company. And the timing is right. The consumer's informed enough. They're ready. And it's something you feel good about. I'm excited to try it. I did not know that adding fat to caffeine helps you not have... Yeah, you don't freak out. You don't get the jitters. So I'll give you a really quick tutorial about coffee. I didn't start drinking coffee until I was 45, until we started this business 10 years ago.

57:27Gabby Reece:I like caffeine. I just didn't like the taste of coffee. And so when we created Laird Superfood, Laird would be like, try this, try that. So what I do is basically a couple shots of espresso in hot chocolate pretty much with fats. However, what I will say is when people do drip coffee, that's like three shots of espresso worth of caffeine. So everybody thinks a shot has more caffeine. It doesn't. They think dark roast has more caffeine. It doesn't. Medium roast has more caffeine. So when something is roasted more or dripped sitting there longer, that's more coffee. So what happens? You do black drip coffee.

58:01Gabby Reece:That's acidic. It's been sitting. You have no fat. You're getting a stomachache, you're jacked up, you get the shakes. So by doing a dark roast or espresso in the fat, you have a little less caffeine. It probably is not as acidic. And then you put the fat and it binds with the caffeine and it goes slower into your system. What's your philosophy on having a scale? Oh, a scale you weigh yourself? Yeah. It comes and goes. I use it as a reference, but this goes back to how do I feel? How do I look in the mirror? How do I look? How do my clothes feel? How's my energy levels? How am I sleeping? This is first principles.

58:37Gabby Reece:Now, is it like, oh, well, why am I consistently gaining these extra pounds? What's going on? Is my stress high? Because by the way, that'll put the weight on. You could have the same practice. You could be changing age and you need to tweak something here and there. So if you can use it as an objective reference, fine. If it's something that you use that just torments you, I would say that torment is actually having a negative impact on your physiology, that it's not worth it. The other thing is people aren't honest with themselves. Even when they think, oh, I'm gonna track what I'm eating, they usually under-report, unless they're writing it down, 25 % of the amount of calories they're intaking because they forgot about, oh, that one little thing I shoved in my mouth or things like that.

59:17Gabby Reece:So what I wanna say to people is, I approach it with both 100 % accountability and grace because if you don't have grace, you're just kicking your own ass. So you want to give yourself grace, but don't bullshit yourself. Like, be honest. Be straight. Are you doing the work? Are you eating the thing? Are you out with the girls having martini? It's like, come on. I want to look like that. It's like, do you want to really? Do you want to do the work? Do you talk to your girls like this? Yes, but way down in the conversation. It's usually pretty loving and nurturing, pretty direct, but from a loving place.

59:52And then I might get to a place where I go, hey, can I say something to you?

59:56Gabby Reece:And not as your mom, but as a person. And I try to couch it in a way that they can then explore that idea for themselves. My mom talks to me like she doesn't sweeten it at all. She doesn't? No. It's interesting. I think it's a blessing and a curse. Well, it just depends. Because I have kind of such a direct tone all the time already, I really try to keep softening things because I am their only mom. And so I want to be their mom. I've heard you talk about softening your edges. Oh, yeah, I need to. I'm getting better at sort of realizing like it's okay. One of my driving forces in my life is like I would like to be a decent person.

1:00:37Gabby Reece:And so that requires being kind and loving. And just because I can take the brute force and like, oh, grind it out doesn't mean everybody else is operating that way. And so I try to take that into account when I'm communicating with people. And, you know, funny enough, I've even said, sometimes I think about this on my podcast where I'm like, you know, I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'll invite you. I'll do this stuff. And finally, sometimes I want to say, and by the way, I don't care if you do it because I'm doing it. Like if you want to do it for yourself, I think it's great. But what I really feel inside is like, okay, that's on you.

1:01:15Gabby Reece:So I think part of me is like, hey, I'll be here. I'll be with you. Let's do it together. And then at a certain point, if you're not ready, it's cool. Did you like being a professional athlete? Are you happy with the path? I feel really fortunate. You know, this is one thing I want to remind people. Your life will find you no matter what. If you just keep following your voice and your instinct. And when the doors open, even if you're scared, if you go through, your life's going to find you. Because if you said to me at 15 as a kid from the Caribbean that I would have gone and played volleyball and as a college athlete and a professional, it was never in the cards, never.

1:01:55Gabby Reece:I should have worked at a gift shop. That's probably what I thought was going to happen. I didn't have an idea about having an opportunity to be in a long marriage or be in a workspace where I could talk about something that I really love and believe in. I thought, okay, we'll see what happens. So I think that's something really important for people, no matter where you come from, no matter where, even who wronged you or what didn't work out for you. If you're willing to work, if you're willing to listen to your voice, if you're willing to be honest with yourself and go through the doors when you're scared, your life finds you.

1:02:33Gabby Reece:In all the ways your partner finds you if that's what you want. That's the thing. You don't have to want that. That doesn't make us complete. But if that's what you want, it'll find you. Your life finds you. It does. It finds you. It's there for us. We just have to trust. And it is scary and hard. And I can sit here with three daughters and a husband and all this rhetoric of the, you know, resume behind me. And as I go one step in front of the other, it's still like, okay, that's what we're doing. We're in school. That's what we're doing down here. And we're loving each other. And I think we make it really complicated.

1:03:08Gabby Reece:When you have a little kid and they're going from one room to the next and they run, like if they're like two and a half, three, and you're not worried that they're about to eat it, right? And they're like, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. When you listen to that, or you sit at a table with people you love, and you listen to like laughter and food and things like that, or you're going to bed at night and everyone's in the house and everyone's safe and it's good, it's not much more than that. Now, we do all these other things to entertain us, to challenge us, to have creative expression. That's great. But what life is really about is so simple.

1:03:43Gabby Reece:And if we can keep those two things space for both of them, you know, it's like a tree, right? They say the roots go deep, but why not? How high and why can the branches go? And I really think that. Stay grounded. And then reach for whatever it is that you feel inspired to reach for and be willing to kind of eat shit on. Like, are you willing every day to stand up and wake up for those relationships and that dream? And if you are, then go for it. That's good. And if you're not, if you're just doing it because someone your parents think you should or you have a boss or whatever, it's not the way.

1:04:18Because even when it's good, it's still challenging. And that's so beautiful. Thank you for that.

1:04:25Gabby Reece:Well, yeah, that's just, you know, live five minutes. And I think most people know that. I have some rapid fire for you. Okay. Has Laird got you into the ocean? Oh, yeah. My mother trained dolphins when I was a kid. It's a weird thing, but I grew up in the Virgin Islands. But yes, I've gone surfing. Laird has got me in the ocean. But I think the thing that connects us is nature and water and island mentality. If you had$5 to invest in your health, what's a healthy decision you can make? Oh, just save your money and go to bed early. You're not going to get anything for$5. How about$50? If you have not trained and you don't know how to train, either buy it online or hire somebody to teach you a couple things so you get comfortable and you know, okay, I can start there.

1:05:12How about$5 ,000?

1:05:13Gabby Reece:For me, the money isn't going to get you where you want to go unless you need to go to a therapist and understand why you haven't done it. Cheapest thing. Every day you wake up, first thing. I used to say, if you said, what's the order? I'd say nutrition, movement, community, all these things. Okay. Sunlight is first. So blue light, non-native blue light, so the blue light that comes from our phones and our computers and all the EMFs and all the LEDs, that is hurting our health and our spirit in a way that we don't understand. So if you can wake up every day and look at sunlight, even if you live in a city, you set your body up, okay?

1:05:52Gabby Reece:Your melatonin gets released through your eyeball, tells your body, hey, in about 14 hours, release your melatonin. it sets your circadian rhythm. Sunlight. Don't snack so much. Shorten your eating window and try to move. And huff and puff. That's what I say. Twice a week, move in a way that you huff and puff. Something you absolutely have no patience for. Go off. I just don't like the victim mentality. If we want to say it's not fair, you know, there's an old saying, if you want fair, go to the fair life is not fair. I'm not smart enough to understand why. All I can do is control this right here and go, what are the things I'm doing, I'm saying, I'm thinking, and I'm believing that I can participate in making this the way that I want it?

1:06:37Gabby Reece:And I don't like bullies. So victim mentality and bullying in the sense of real bullying, because you can, because that person won't fight back. Now, if you're a bully and you pick another bully, I'm down. No problem. Those two things really tweak me. I love your podcast. What's the first episode that you would point someone to? It just depends what you're interested in, because I have really science-y people. If you're into that, I have a lot of mental health people. So if you want to talk more about mental health, I have some big muscle-headed guys that talk about science. So it's really what you're interested in.

1:07:11Gabby Reece:I have a lot of great guests. It's more about, people are drawn to things in their life because they're wrestling it. And so, for example, most mental health people I talk to, they're still trying to figure out. Most relationship experts, guess what they're trying to figure out? Relationships. So I think it's also understanding the thing that we're intrigued in is the problem we're still trying to solve. I just learned that lesson. I had a therapist who basically asked me my deepest fear. I came up with loneliness. And she goes, oh, that's so interesting because you've built a whole career out of connection, which is the antidote or the opposite.

1:07:46What was yours?

1:07:48Gabby Reece:It's a great question. I think my thing has always been like, do it really well, be really good, never separate because you're a team player, right? I come from a team. So pursue excellence, grind, do all this stuff, but don't take too much space. Don't take too much air. That's even interesting being married to Laird. A lot of times I'm happy to elevate Laird and be behind. So I think for me it's more about kind of don't worry about it. Follow what you want to do and don't govern it too much. And quite literally take up space. Yeah I know. I'm doing it already. I might as well do it all the way.

1:08:25One thing every woman should try once.

1:08:27Gabby Reece:I just think as you get older as a woman you should try more than once to be silly. And I don't mean you know drunk on a Wednesday on a girls' night out. I mean, like, don't let it all bury you, because it can. The details of life, and am I perfect? Just be silly, be playful, and use your life's experience to give you more freedom, not confine you. What's a book you've read that changed your mind or changed your life that you think everybody could read? Well, I've read a lot of books that have changed my mind about a lot of things. One of them was that was really helpful, especially navigating some things about parenting, which then bled across to everything, was a book by Byron Katie called The Work.

1:09:14Gabby Reece:And she has four questions. Is it true? Can I know it to be true for sure? Who am I when I think those thoughts? And who would I be without that belief? And I think for all of us, this idea of the narrative, we live by our narratives. And if we can get out of that from time to time, and she talks about past futuring, not doing that. I think that was really a great starting point for me. I could apply that to my business, to my love life, to my fitness life, to my relationship with my children, and it's really liberating. Okay, last question. Grab a card from the Question Everything card game, whichever one calls you.

1:09:50Gabby Reece:Question Everything. Here we go. How would you describe yourself to a stranger? Oh my gosh. Is that for real? Consistent. So boring. I'll tell you one thing really and we'll end this with this. I went and saw a guy recently and he said to me, Gabby, you know, you've been using your legs for everything. Up the hill, grind, step, step, grind. He goes, why don't you try using your wings? And I think sometimes we work so hard, we get mired in the details. We're trying to show up for everybody. But sometimes if we can give ourselves permission to let it. Thank you for that. Thank you for joining us.

1:10:29Gabby Reece:Thank you for having me.

1:10:35Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.