How to Actually Win at Work (Without Playing Yourself) With Ginny Clarke

20:26Danielle:Like a new laptop if you're eligible and enroll in select online or on-campus programs. That means flexible and engaging online courses and resources, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. Online nationally or check out their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen.edu.

20:50In a classroom of sodas, most stay quiet. Then there's Mr. Pibb. Sweet cherry, bold outbursts, the kind of flavor that gets attention. Bold kick of cherry.

21:01Danielle:And you're Mr. Pibb. What's up, everyone? I'm Ako Wodum. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

21:38Danielle:and he's like just give it a shot he goes but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore it's okay to quit if you saw it written down it would not be an inspiration it would not be on a calendar of you know the cat just hang in there yeah it would not be right it wouldn't be that there's a lot of luck yeah listen to thanks Stat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

22:13Danielle:I think we live in this era of main character energy. Do you think that kind of energy helps or hurts at work? Some of that is going to fly in the face of collaboration, which is for most people, even if you're an individual contributor at work, you need to be able to get along with others. Play nice with others, as they say. So yes, I think it can fly in the face of this showing up and being the main character. It's not always about you. I know. I think about how you can show up and be the main character without pissing people off. And it's like, be extra competent, right? Be competent, be perceptive, watch signals.

22:52What is your goal in being there? Because depending on what the gathering is about, you're a participant. Now, if you're the one sucking and they are out of the room, always wanted to raise your hand and say the most important thing, that gets tiresome. You're going to turn people off.

23:05Danielle:Do you know Bozoma St. John? That is somebody who I look at her and I'm like, you brought main character energy to your jobs and people loved you for it. She must be really perceptive because she knew when to bring it and when to listen. And if you bring that kind of energy, you have to be really perceptive, it seems. You absolutely do. And I think what's really, dare I say, in vogue now is the authenticity. Are you putting on a show? Are you doing something actually just for someone else to observe? Or are we seeing the real you? Yeah, because I think some people wear masks at work. You've talked about something called role prison.

23:44Danielle:Can you explain what that is? Well, people get into a role and they think that's all they can ever do. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah, like people start behaving according to what they think their title requires rather than what the work needs. That's dangerous because part of it tells me that on just a personal level, you're caught up in a title. That's your first mistake because these titles anywhere, pick a place, they tend to be ridiculous, right? I mean, we've seen some that are just really crazy. Do titles matter anymore? We're still in a hierarchical environment. And so to the extent that it shows rank or level.

24:20People in those roles want that. They want others below them, subordinates, to respect their title. And hopefully there's a commensurate amount of competence that goes with the title. That's a big if because I've worked for people who had big titles who weren't always as competent as I would have expected.

24:39Danielle:How do you navigate that situation when you feel like you know more than your boss? Do your best to build them up. That's what I would say. It's not going to serve you well to badmouth them. Other people are probably aware of it. And so to the extent that you can fill the gap, do that. I've heard you talk about competence a lot. And you said that it's the real currency in the room. What do you mean by that? Well, let me describe what the term and I talk about competencies. I was trained to do competency based assessment as a recruiter. The way I describe competencies as the deconstructed elements of how you do something.

25:14It's not just that you've done it. That doesn't tell me that you're competent. I know lots of people who've done stuff and they're not.

25:20Danielle:You know, you're savage in the best way. Oh, you have no idea. You know my nickname. Maybe you don't. It's GMFC. G-C. Oh, my God. I was given that. Ginny M.F. Clark, for anybody listening. Got it. I'm kind. I'm loving. But I just see things very clearly. And they're not absolute. This is all through my lens, right? But you remind me. Competencies. Thank you. Deconstructed elements of how you do something. How do you communicate that to somebody though? Like if I'm in an interview, how can I describe my how? Storytelling. We're back to that. Okay. And the way I seem to fall into this before I became an executive recruiter, I recruited for two years after I graduated from undergrad, University of California at Davis.

26:06And then I went to business school. Then I went into banking, commercial real estate, executive recruiting. In the interviews, the more time and more varied experiences, I had to create the through line for the person I was speaking to so that they understood what was it that I had learned and what skills had I developed that made sense to what it is that they do now. What did you say? When I was going into Spencer Stewart, I was able to talk about how I developed business when I was in the commercial real estate investment management business because I had clients and I had to go out and find them.

26:40I talked about how I thought, how I processed and worked on different challenges in that space, how I innovated, how I developed things, how much I recruited. I did recruiting. I wasn't a recruiter in these other companies, but they would send me on campus on behalf of the company to recruit for them because I was a line person who could interview. So I just dropped these little nuggets of things that I had done that were relevant and it made sense.

27:09Danielle:I'm like deducing here. Would you say that you could look at a company's objectives if it is to grow their business, whatever those are, if you could name three of them and then try and fit in how your personal story, give them the how for a few of those. And that would be a good interview. Well, and it's not just the company. Yes, that's the container, but it's the role. So talk about the role. Because so many people, as I was saying, they assume if you've done it, if you have a similar title, ooh, that makes it really easy. They've done this before. You're not asking nearly enough questions.

27:42Danielle:What are three really good questions to ask somebody when you are being interviewed? Give me an example. That's one. So give me an example of when you had to deal with someone who was difficult, you had a difficult client, to offer them a hypothetical situation and say, how would you handle this? That's quite telling. So it's not just the what, it's the how. Back to that. And then how about the reverse side? If you are being interviewed, what are a few questions that are really thoughtful and great to ask? The basic ones of tell me something about your organization that you don't like, or there's some simple ones that really aren't that thoughtful.

28:20So do your homework. And I would advise people to get as granular as possible. So you can know something about damn near anybody that you're talking to. So do your homework on the interview. And I would ask a question that's more specific to them and maybe the role that they're in, how they think about the work that the company is doing or the role that this individual plays in the organization from their perspective so that you're actually learning something. So the question doesn't become just a platitude.

28:50Danielle:What do you think, and be honest, what do you think of the question, like, what is your biggest pain point day to day? And what would somebody in this role do to make your life a lot easier? It's not a bad question. You don't seem excited by it. It's not a great question. To the extent that it might have already been answered. When people hold on to, they have this sort of list and they have these questions and it's like, well, we actually already talked about a lot of that. It doesn't feel probing. It feels rehearsed. Well, what I'm hearing you say, though, is that a lot of this is practice because I think about myself at 22.

29:23Danielle:There's no way I'm going to be present in an interview. I'm so nervous. I'm not practiced. Like I could go in now at 35 and be present. I don't even know if I could have done that three years ago. I get that. And keep in mind, I was interviewing as a recruiter. These were very senior people. When I was a college recruiter, was more junior. Those were very different kinds of conversations. Okay. So thank you for like kind of making that distinction. But I still think back to your original question around what I call the narrative. Everybody needs one. Be able to tell your story, even if no one's giving you any real guidelines.

29:58Have something in your head about why you're sitting here.

30:01Danielle:Are there certain beats in the story to hit? Like if you could break down, what are the beats you want to hit? Why you're here. You're trying to hit why I'm interested. because you'd be surprised how many people take interviews and they actually don't know much about the organization, don't really care. Really? It's an opportunity. It's an opening and they're sitting here. But it's such a competitive job market nowadays. Yeah, but some people are there just because someone said yes to them and they haven't given it a lot of thought. And that's unfortunate. I'm really surprised to hear that, especially you're having done like senior recruiting.

30:35Danielle:That's shocking. Or you're supposed to be impressed by them already. So you've considered yourself a former executive recruiter conscious leadership expert, executive coach, keynote speaker, and workplace activist. What do you consider your competency? My competencies are around how I think. I'm a holistic thinker. I look at things. I'm able to zoom in and zoom out. I'm highly analytical, qualitatively analytical. I'm a systems thinker. And that, I think, comes from my training in language, linguistics and French, and loving to read the dictionary. So I perceive things in a deeper way than a lot of people who just might give it a cursory observation.

31:15I see everything. Watching people, I'm sensing, I'm using all of my senses. I'm highly intuitive. So I see a lot. You're hired. I can't get the moment.

31:25Danielle:But can I tell you what stood out for me? I was thinking like, okay, I'm sitting across from her. When you said, I think more deeply and see what other people miss, I'm like, oh yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Like you hit something there with the way you described it. I just think that's good for people to notice. They're thinking about how to describe their own competency. Absolutely. One of the ways I came up with the five dimensions of conscious leadership, and it's not just for people in leadership roles, by the way, know yourself, speak your truth, inspire love, expand consciousness, and activate mastery.

31:58I came up with those when I was getting ready to leave Google. And I looked back on my entire career to reflect on what did I think make leaders good or great or terrible. And these are the personal characteristics that I think underlie any functional expertise, any leadership expertise. These are personal attributes that people need to consider because I think a lot of people don't. They're just like, I'm here, I'm good, I've done all these things. Their identity is their resume, which you were alluding to earlier. And that's very dangerous. I think we need to step back. You're not your job. You need to know who you are, what you stand for, what your values are, why you're here.

32:39It's simple stuff, but I think a lot of us are lost.

32:42Danielle:Well, I have to tell you, I had the woman on the podcast named Susie Welch who created something called the Values Bridge. And you take a simple quiz and it tells you what your 16 values are in order. And we conflate values and virtues. So kindness is really important to me. And I thought that was a value. That's a virtue. I ask myself questions all the time. I ask questions for a living and I had no idea what my real values are. I think like you really have to carve out the time. It's very difficult to really know yourself. It is, especially now, especially with social media. Yeah, because you have everybody else's opinions.

33:18Danielle:I have found that in my career, my professional life really only expands as much as my personal development. Have you found that to be true in your life? Yeah, because my personal development matters more. I can't be someone totally different when I show up at work from the essence of who I am. Maybe some people can. Maybe they have to. Yeah, you get all of me. You know, it's kind of all or nothing. Again, you know, what's appropriate. Yeah. But at my core, I'm the same person. And I wish that for everyone because I think trying to be something you're not is exhausting and depleting. And if you don't know, then I think you're missing big aspects of yourself that you could be bringing into the workplace, bringing into the rest of your life that you haven't.

34:07And it's more than just the language. It's the awareness.

34:18Danielle:Okay, you've got a lot going on and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to-do list. I get it. So let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women to support the immune system, vaginal health, and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's One's Daily Probiotic is the real deal, don't, okay?

34:58Danielle:They are certified non-GMO and doctor formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life, formulas for feeling alive. Available on Amazon. Disclaimer, number one based on Circona 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11-30-25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. When it comes to advancing your education, you have more options than you think. At Rasmussen University, we find ways to remove barriers, not build them.

35:35Danielle:Like a new laptop if you're eligible and enroll in select online or on-campus programs. That means flexible and engaging online courses and resources, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. Online nationally or check out their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen.edu. What's up, everyone? I'm Ako Wodum. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

36:17Danielle:I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there.

36:52Danielle:Yeah. It would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay. How long have we been best friends for? Since the day we met. As the League One volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. We really are like yin and yang, vodka and tequila. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport.

37:26Danielle:Today we have Logan Lednecke. I feel like our fan base in general is very connected. It's like a comforting feeling getting to play at home. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, serving pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Jordan Thompson had that microphone out. God forbid we make mistakes or cuss at our coach. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Serving Pancakes and listen now. This has been Serving Pancakes and we'll catch you on the flip side. Okay. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

38:07Danielle:As a recruiter, would you hire somebody that you liked over somebody with high competency? No. In the workplace, I need competence. competence. Do I need to like you? Not necessarily. If I find you obnoxious, that's a problem. If I don't perceive that you're going to work well with others. There's sort of a meter. There's a meter. But you've probably heard me say, I don't need to be liked. So if someone else needs to be liked, there's kind of a hole there, I think. And that's cause for concern. Because so much of your work intertwines the personal and professional. And I just want to say that I deeply appreciate that.

38:45Danielle:How do you think about personal and professional boundaries? Are there professional boundaries when you're a high achiever, high performer? Absolutely. Really? Yeah. I'm not going to do anything my superior. I work for myself now, so I am that, right? But when I think about the people on my team, I only have two full-time people. I'm not going to ask them to do anything I wouldn't do in the context of work. You know what I mean? I'm not going to ask them to work all weekend. If we all agree that we have to get something out, we're on a sprint, and we're all going to do it, then that's one thing.

39:16That's a boundary. And personal boundaries, I'm probably even more locked down on those.

39:22Danielle:I want to sort of dig into this because you talk about how nobody teaches us how to say no. You actually talk about it very often on your Instagram. Why is that important to you? Because I see so many people in the workplace, people I coach, people I encounter who are people pleasing. They don't know how to say no. They don't think it serves them to say no. And I just think it's really important that you know what your boundaries are. And you're able to express them. Because this is maybe my upbringing, but, you know, I don't owe you anything. If we're in a work environment and I have responsibilities and deliverables, of course, I'm going to honor those commitments.

39:57But you want me to do something else that goes well beyond what's expected maybe of others? No. And part of my barometer is, would I ask somebody to do that under the same circumstances?

40:10Danielle:Do you think that is realistic for a startup? Because that feels like very true in a corporate environment. But when I think about startup environments, I'm like, I don't know if that's even possible. It might not be. I mean, we're your sort of jack of all trades, master of none, as they say, right? We need to jump in. And that's the team I have now, frankly. They'll do anything. We agree. Can you do this? Yes, I can. No, I'm probably not the one to ask. So, yeah, I do like having people in a startup. Yeah. But still, there might be boundaries. You've called interviews theater. So I really want to know who's the worst actor in the room, the candidate or the company?

40:49You know, I would say the company. But a company is nothing more than a bunch of people. And I always say that the culture is determined by the senior most leaders. So I guess it kind of trickles all the way up to leadership.

41:01Danielle:I want to ask you about culture. It's something that as a millennial, I've heard in the zeitgeist a lot. Yeah. And there is company culture. You can feel it when you walk in. But I find it to be very amorphous. Like very rarely is there a culture or a value system written on the walls. You just kind of walk in and feel it. So when you say it's set by the leaders, do you think it's caught, not taught? Do you think it's taught? How does it get set? Oh, I don't even think it's necessarily intentional. In a lot of companies, I mean, they might have their sort of ethos or whatever's on the website or have it written down on a wall.

41:37But then when you walk in, I refer to it as the soup that you're in. You feel it. You just said that. You feel it. And very often what you feel is not what might be on that wall. Exactly. The leaders are the ones who set the tone very typically without thinking about it. It's what they will and will not tolerate. That to me is one of the big elements of what is going to determine the culture. What are people getting away with? What kind of behavior is incentivized?

42:07Danielle:See, I think that's so interesting because I think when people talk about culture, they think it's we are kind, we are doers. But it's actually who gets hired and who gets fired. because you watch what behavior gets rewarded and what is punished. And how you're treated and by whom. It's more simple than I thought. Oh, yeah. People are simple in so many ways. So our producer, Jess, and I loved this video you made about interviews. So you say interviews were invented in 1921. How have we been conducting them wrong since then? You need to spill the tea. I didn't realize they were this old. And I think the reference was to the fact that this was sort of at the beginning of the industrial age where, you know, people opened these factories and they had all these people show up and they needed to figure out a way to discern who's more suitable than the other person.

42:55And so the interview. And I think it's become something that we do, a standard, but I just don't think they're done well. I think most interviewers aren't asking the right questions.

43:06Danielle:I want a set of questions from you. I know that's so hard to give me when it's just a general conversation, but I would love to see you do a video about that. I'm so curious. What are people doing wrong? The interviewers? Yeah. I'll tell you from my perspective, I have just recently started hiring help and a freelance team, and I think I'm a really bad hirer. I'm self-aware enough to know. Okay. Why do you think that? I'm getting better at it. I do think part of it's practice. I didn't know the questions to ask at the beginning. So I did look at the resume, like you said, and I was like, okay, they've done this before.

43:40Danielle:I learned very quickly. That doesn't mean competence. And I don't know the right questions to ask. So I don't know. I have an expert here. Can you advise me? I'll start with a shortcut. And that is take the job description. Hopefully you had one. Drop it into your favorite AI system. Tell it what your expectations are. Tell it what's not on the job description. Describe the circumstances in which this person is going to be operating and what your expectations actually are. Not the to-do, but this is the environment, the culture that we operate in. I'm a this, I'm a that. Give it a couple paragraphs and then ask it to generate some questions for you.

44:20Danielle:Oh, I love that. I mean, I was a recruiter long before AI, but I learned myself how to contextualize what it is that I'm trying to hire for, given who was sitting in front of me. It became automatic for me. Wow. I love that answer. Thank you for that. I think everybody's different. I've boiled down my most important quality is being proactive, proactivity. That's what I'm looking for. What one quality were you really looking for? For people on my team or as a recruiter when I was? As a recruiter, if you had to give us one quality. You know what? It's the self-awareness. That's the quality I was always looking for.

44:57I didn't always name it as that. I'll never forget. I was sitting across from someone. I don't remember now if he became the final candidate, but in the end, I really liked this guy. And he was responding to a question, I think. And I looked across. I'm at my big desk and he's sitting over in the chair. And I saw this little 10-year-old boy when I looked up. And it wasn't that he was childish. I just saw a vulnerability. And I thought this is a decent, kind person. It wasn't what he said. What he talked about told me that he was competent. But there was something else that I noticed that let me know that he was human and kind.

45:35And that is something I value.

45:37Danielle:If you could interrupt everybody's algorithm for five minutes, what truth about work would you force us all to sit with? It's a game. And once you understand that, you won't fight against it all the time. half the stuff that people think is cast in stone and half the genius that they believe that their boss has. No. You've got broken people, brilliant people, happy people, angry people, disturbed people, all here thrown together to do something. And it's a game and it's not always well played. So learn to play it. If you could try and in a simple way boil down who wins and who loses. Unfortunately, I think so many people think that they win when they make a lot of money or they have a big title and they're over lots of people.

46:24I just don't believe that's the case. For me, it was how can I impact people? I've been gone from Google five years. But when I still hear from members of my team and I'm employing one now or they're reaching out just to say, hey, they see me on social media and they're celebrating something. My son is in grad school or whatever. It's a personal connection, you know. And I think we don't do that well. It's not valued and people underestimate. And you can't fake it. I'm not saying go try to be friends with everybody. I don't have that many friends from work. We're work colleagues and we respect each other and like each other.

47:01A few are friends. But I think we need to sort of understand what everybody's doing there.

47:05Danielle:Well, what I think you're talking about, and tell me if I'm assessing it right, is integrity. One of my favorite words. Me too. I don't know that enough people actually know what that is, or regrettably that it's modeled by leaders, the ones that you would expect to embody that. That's how I grew up. My dad, I told you, was a superintendent of correctional facilities. And he had so much. He ran a tight ship. Oh, yes, he did. I'm his daughter. I look like my mom. My brother looks like my dad, but my brother is my mother's son. I am my dad's daughter, very much him, hence the GMFSC. But yeah, I just think we need to get clear on why we're doing things, how we're doing things.

47:49And yes, the integrity piece is integral. But unfortunately, integrity isn't often modeled by the senior most people. And so that standard isn't set. And the culture suffers.

48:00Danielle:I don't know that I've ever been able to name that. I appreciate you pointing that out. Because all the best places I've worked, the leader, the number one in charge has a lot of integrity and they hire people with integrity for the most part. Well, and the ones who don't have integrity, who operate from that place at work. Well, I keep thinking of the Coldplay situation, right? That CEO with the head of HR. Oh, tell me what you think about that. How stupid and irresponsible, frankly, for the two of them to even be there to get caught. In public. In public. What were you thinking? Because there were other people from the company there, too.

48:36Danielle:So everyone was just kind of turning a blind eye. Yeah. I felt like what you do in your own time is your business. Yeah. That is your marriage. You decide. But to bring it out into public is a wild thing. Irresponsible. So you agree that they both should have been fired? Absolutely. If I was on the board, immediately. Bad judgment. You use that kind of judgment in work situations? No, out of here. Gotta go. There gotta be consequences to bad behavior. Which is the culture piece. It is. It kind of all fits together. That's why I was saying what gets tolerated is gonna determine the culture. Do you think then it's very important for us to, as individuals, recognize what our values are, maybe even write a list, and only work at companies that align with our values?

49:22Danielle:Is that even possible? That might narrow it down to too few. I just don't think companies are as deliberate and aware. And the leaders, I don't think, are necessarily holding themselves as accountable as they should to their employees. Very often, I think leaders think in terms of, you know, I'm accountable to my shareholders and to my board. What about to the thousands of employees? You're accountable to them, too, by showing up with integrity. And I think that's what's missing. If you are a person who wants to work on your integrity, what does that look like? Need to go somewhere and sit by yourself and look deeply into the mirror.

49:58Danielle:Because what you're talking about is leadership. And you can be a leader in any role you're in. Absolutely. I guess I landed on that because I saw how many leaders, people in leadership roles. So I use the term judiciously when you're not leading well, but you're still called a leader. I just was disappointed. I expected more. You know, I held my dad out as that sort of standard of someone who knew how to set boundaries, but respected people. And that's the difference that I talk about. I don't need you to like me, but as my mother used to say, you will respect me. I can't force you to do that.

50:34You will respect me if I am truthful, if I'm kind, if I have integrity, which means you can trust me. I don't think a lot of leaders can be trusted these days. They don't demonstrate that they are worthy of trust.

50:47Danielle:As you're talking, I'm thinking about that the best leaders I've worked for show up as the same person every day. So they're not, you know, full of integrity one day and then maybe in a bad mood the next. There's a consistency piece. Like you trust them because they're consistent. That's right. And, you know, we're all human. Right. So I would let my team know I'm kind of off today. I'm feeling a little wonky and dizzy. So you'll excuse me, you know. Have some humility.

51:19Danielle:Okay, you've got a lot going on and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to-do list. I get it. So let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women to support the immune system, vaginal health, and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's Once Daily Probiotic is the real deal, don't, okay?

52:00Danielle:They are certified non-GMO and doctor formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life Formulas for Feeling Alive, available on Amazon. Disclaimer, number one based on Circona 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11-30-25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. When it comes to advancing your education, you have more options than you think. At Rasmussen University, we find ways to remove barriers, not build them.

52:36Danielle:Like a new laptop if you're eligible and enroll in select online or on-campus programs. That means flexible and engaging online courses and resources, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. Online nationally or check out their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen.edu. What's up, everyone? I'm Ako Wodum. My next guest you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

53:19Danielle:I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings I'm working my way up through. And I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

53:56Danielle:There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Serving Pancakes podcast, conversations about volleyball go beyond the court. Today we have a little best friend compatibility test. Okay, how long have we been best friends for? Since the day we met. As the League One volleyball season heads towards its final stretch, there's no better time to tune in. We really are like yin and yang, vodka and tequila. You'll hear unfiltered analysis, behind the scenes stories and conversations with leaders making an impact across the sport.

54:28Danielle:Today we have Logan Lednicki. I feel like our fan base in general is very connected. It's like a comforting feeling getting to play at home. Whether you're following the final push of love season or just love the game, Serving Pancakes brings you closer to the action and the people shaping the future of volleyball. Jordan Thompson had that microphone out. God forbid we make mistakes or cuss at our coach. Like when time were too tight. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Serving Pancakes and listen now. This has been Serving Pancakes and we'll catch you on the flip side. Okay. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

55:09Danielle:I've had friends in other fields who are more in corporate worlds and they've applied for jobs and they had to take a compatibility test before they even get to round one. And I feel like a lot of those are making people feel like they're fired before they're even hired. What do you think about those? I've never seen one of those tests. I'm well aware that they're out there. It triggers a little something for me in the sense that it sounds suspiciously like the fit. Do they fit our culture? What does that even mean? That leaves so much room for what I think often becomes, I'll say it, it can be bias.

55:44Danielle:That's how I feel. Yeah. Can I tell you, when I am given any sort of like paperwork and I have to click an identity box, a race, an ethnicity, a gender, I'm like, there's no good way to answer this. And I don't want to answer. Right. Because it feels like I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. What do you think about those? I mean, there was a time when I think some of that information was actually used to calibrate the outreach that an organization might have been getting. I co-founded the diversity practice at Spencer Stewart. And part of my responsibility at Google was developing some of that expertise and capability.

56:20And so there weren't quotas, but also we wanted to know that we were getting a representative sampling of people who had the qualifications.

56:30Danielle:Right. You want a pipeline of different types of people. That's right. But it can send a very negative signal. Well, I think nowadays it's so confusing. People don't know if they're going to be discriminated against because of a certain box or they don't know if it helps them if they check a certain box. That's right. I guess Netflix is known for having like a lot of different boxes for people to check. Yeah. And I don't know if it's helpful or hurtful. I don't either. I just don't. I think there's this confusion because they might be asking for things. They don't communicate why. And then can you even trust them?

57:05Or are you being screened out, would you say, before you even cross the threshold?

57:10Danielle:Do you recommend people just put like not applicable or other? Tell your truth. Just be you. Yeah. Because you don't want to walk in somewhere where you're not welcome as you. There you have it. You got it. Ultimately. Yeah. The welcome can mean different things. I've been in situations where I was welcomed by the masses, but then certain people were uncomfortable with my presence. I represented a threat. Well, what I found so interesting about your story is that you shared that early on in your career at Spencer, what is it called? Spencer Stewart. Spencer Stewart, that very early on they asked you to start a diversity program.

57:47Danielle:Yeah. And you said, no, thank you. And they were kind of shocked. Can you explain your thinking behind that? Well, it was a couple of things. One, I was going through so much with my young son and my mom passing a month after I started there. So that was one. So knowing my own physical, emotional limitations in that moment. But the overarching thing was that I needed to learn the business of executive recruiting, the way they did it, what made them one of the top firms in the world. There's a way. And they had very clear standards. Talk about professionalism. It was just very clear quality control.

58:27This is how we do things. And you know what? That worked for me because now that I know what you expect, I know what I need to learn and how I need to fortify what I came here knowing with spending time with people and just doing some of the work. So it was a great experience. It was probably the most formative role of my career because I learned so much.

58:51Danielle:I love when you share that story because I think it signals the yes and no that you talk about. A lot of people, I think, would have thought, wow, an opportunity to lead so early on. And that was your self-awareness that said, I'm actually not ready yet. Yeah. And the ready wasn't as in knowledge. I could have done it based on what they wanted. I prioritized learning the business because ultimately that's how I was going to be evaluated. and what it was that they were asking me to do was a function of understanding the business. And that meant knowing people, knowing behaviors and, you know, just some of the things that aren't on paper and building relationships internally.

59:33Danielle:So you've worked for two of the top companies in the world in terms of recruiting, interviewed thousands of people, hired hundreds of top performers. If you could give me three qualities that top performers have, what would they be? I'm going to go back to self-awareness. I think they really do, because that self-awareness allows them to interact with other people in a way that brings the best out in those people. So it's a derivative of some of the leadership competencies that I was trained to assess for. So that's probably one. It's that how well do you know yourself? And that weeds out, I think, extreme behavioral maladies and things like, you know, narcissism and other things that can be really destructive in an organization.

1:00:17So that's one. How many did you want?

1:00:20Danielle:I'd love three if you have them. A sense of collaboration, because even if you're coming into a leadership role, no one expects you to know everything. A good leader knows how to ask questions, how to admit when they don't know something. That's why you have a team. Have them know or go find out. One of the primary competencies is decision making. And again, I'm going to fall back on what I mentioned earlier around the fact that so many people now are conflict averse and people pleasing. They're derivatives of a similar mindset, I dare say. And so if you're a people pleaser or you're conflict averse or both, you're probably not going to make optimal decisions because you're too worried about what everybody else is thinking.

1:01:04And you don't want to necessarily say anything because you're avoiding conflict. So that's why personal traits can influence the level of competence in a certain area.

1:01:13Danielle:I love that. I really struggled with conflict. And I saw a therapist. I'll never forget. I was doing a morning show in Chicago. And my boss and I butt heads a lot. I thought he was a person of low integrity and I didn't trust him. And that's one of my favorite traits or values. And so it was tough for me and we would disagree a lot. And I didn't know what information I could share with him. I went to a therapist and I was like, I'm so bad at conflict. And she said, no, you are just not practiced. So we're going to practice conflict. Your boss already doesn't like you. We're going to really practice with him.

1:01:48That's great. I love that.

1:01:50Danielle:We had so much conflict for a year. Now I don't get stressed out by conflict. I actually appreciate a hard conversation. So I only share that to say that if you are listening and feeling that, it is something that you can practice. Absolutely. I had to tell someone I was coaching. I said, you know, I'm not sure you and your manager are ever going to like be buds. So why don't you focus on building the best team this organization has ever seen in your function? Because trust me, word will get around. So you don't need to be the one. You have nothing to prove per se. But go do the best you can possibly do.

1:02:30And trust me, his boss is going to find out how good you are. Because the top bosses have plants. They have people. Somebody once told me, you seem to have your ear to the ground. I was like, huh, I probably do. It wasn't an active thing that I did. It's simply that people felt comfortable coming to me because they felt that they could what? But trust me.

1:02:50Danielle:Okay, I'm going to give you some rapid fires. Okay. The workplace trend you didn't see coming. Yoga pants. The workplace trend that will not age well. Yoga pants. The number one thing not to put in a cover letter. Your test scores. Work from home, return to office, or hybrid. Return to office. I want to tell you why later, but keep going. Okay. The most outdated aspect of applying for jobs. Algorithms. First red flag in an interview. you. Wasn't kind to the admin. Overused corporate word that needs to retire immediately. I've been out now. Let's see. There's some of these platitudes that sound so stupid.

1:03:26We'll circle back.

1:03:27Danielle:A title that people chase that just is not worth the stress. Anything with a C. The fastest way to lose credibility in a room. Talk too much. The 2026 way to say per my last email. Maybe you didn't understand. Ginny MF and Clark. Thank you. You're so wonderful. What a pleasure. Thank you.

1:03:51Danielle:Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

1:04:11Danielle:All the talk of probiotics can get confusing. Which to take? Why? What does it do? let's make it easy. Garden of Life's doctor-formulated once-daily women's probiotic is the number one women's probiotic. Why should you take it? Well, Garden of Life transforms a range of probiotic strains to support digestive immune and vaginal health. Plus, this doctor - formulated non-GMO formula is designed specifically for women. Simply put, this is an easy way to support your gut health. Garden of Life, formulas for feeling alive. Available on Amazon. Disclaimer, number one based on Circona 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11-30-25.

1:04:51Danielle:These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. When it comes to advancing your education, you have more options than you think. At Rasmussen University, we find ways to remove barriers, not build them, like a new laptop if you're eligible, and enroll in select online or on-campus programs. That means flexible and engaging online courses and resources, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. Online nationally or check out their 20 campuses across six states.

1:05:24Danielle:Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen.edu. Peace to the planet. Charlamagne the God here and listen. We are back. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard. Yeah. And the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Eggs podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. Don't call me white, girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie, with Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King. And yes, Drink Champ will be in the building. Plus, you know, we're going to have a lot of guests.

1:06:01So you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace, the picture podcast, and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself, okay? Pull up.

1:06:19When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist,

1:06:24Danielle:they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that. Trust your girlfriends. Listen to The Girlfriends, trust me, babe, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.