How To Stay Hopeful in a World on Fire: Mandana Dayani

26:09It's voting. Their product drops in November. How do we get people to wait in line? What if we just became publicists for voting? What would happen? And CA joined as our co-founders. And I didn't go into it like, I want to start an organization. Let me apply for 501c3 status. I just was all in on like, if this is the way that we're going to have change, I'm really good at this thing that I'm good at. I'm going to do it this way. And there's a million people that do a million other things in this space, but we're going to do our version our way. And we all did pro bono as volunteers, and it became so big so fast.

26:43Like, you just never know, right? Like, I always live in this fear of, like, no one's coming to my birthday party. Every time you launch something, you're like, whoo, is anyone going to come? But it was wild to see the community response. What was the most exciting part about it? I think I had this like dorky hypothesis that like no one asks you to help, right? Like why aren't people asking you for help? You're so smart. Like I don't understand. Like I was like no one is showing up at these women who have been the brains behind the biggest companies, films, influencers in the world, right? What if we just made this big pot together and like went to everyone that we knew and asked them to throw something in?

27:21And so if we made the brand that was cool and we made it nonpartisan and we made it safe and all of the things. And my best friend, Tiffany Bensley, who's like the chicest, coolest woman in the entire world, helped start The Row and Violet Gray. And she's just amazing. And so everyone went out to their relationships in tech and finance and entertainment and fashion and beauty and was like, hey, you have windows. Can we use them? You're sending boxes. Can we throw something in them? Like, you have a fashion show. Can we put stuff on your runway? And everyone said yes. And that was what blew my mind, that like all these people were just waiting to be asked.

27:53And so like Disney was like, sure, we have all this unused ad space. Would you like it? And we're like, huh? Yes, thank you. That would be awesome. And so it was just so cool that it was like, and this is what sounds so dorky, but it was a community project, right? It felt like we built this like little garden together. That was what was so awesome was that like no one owned it. And I don't think I ever anticipated that happening. And then there was like the friends moment because I love friends so much. I mean, Jennifer used to. Wait, what do you mean the friends moment? So I read the statistic once that said a reminder from a friend makes you up to two times more likely to vote.

28:25And so I created this campaign called Register Friend Day, which we like totally made up. And so we trademarked the slogan, friends don't let friends skip elections. And we changed our text code to, you know, text friends, whatever. And so the three women from friends posted to launch the campaign. And then Gwyneth Paltrow and Robert Downey Jr. did this video that was amazing. And we had 100 ,000 people that day confirm their registrations, which was wild. What's something that I am a voter and the movement taught you about our political system that inspired you, something that you think more people should know?

28:58I think it's two things. One is that these people work for us and we have so much more power than we understand. And so our job is to hold electeds accountable. But also just how much the system needs us. Like I think that we don't really understand. People are like, I do X for a living. What can I do? And I'm like, everyone needs you in so many different capacities. I think it took a while to really understand how much power we had, how much it meant to everyone when we showed up, how cool it was to build community and find people that you love, and how much of a difference you could make. I don't think I really understood it.

29:35You hit on something that I hear so often nowadays, and it's, I don't even want to call it apathy because it's disappointment. People feel counted out of the system. Smart, interested people are like, I'm one person. When did you really know that your voice actually made a difference? There's one thing that I thought was always weird that I would think about so much, which is like, this sounds so strange to say a lot. But the idea that like you have as much power in our government as Beyonce is really so cool. Like you can't buy a VIP table in our government in a way, right? Like you get one vote, she gets one vote, right?

30:19It's the greatest equalizer of power. It's so cool. And the idea that like, if you don't show up, guess who is, you know what I mean? And so like, you actually matter the exact same as everyone else, no matter who they are. And so that means so much. I think I also like came from a place where no one had that power or privilege. And so it blows my mind that people could just sit out something that is what hundreds of millions of people would literally kill themselves for. And do, trying to come here. People lose their lives trying to get to America. Yeah. I think people in the world of Amazon Prime, everyone wants whatever it is that they want in 24 hours.

31:01But that's not how change works. Our government wasn't created in a way that it would change and show up at your doorstep in two days. It's just going to take a really long time, and you're going to have to show up and over and over and over again. But change happens. It's like we talk about my best friend, Shannon Watts, but like when she started Moms Demand Action and look at the progress they've made in 10 years, that is wild, right? But they show up every single day. And so if you care about something, you can't be discouraged because it hasn't happened. It's not that it's not going to happen.

31:32It just hasn't happened yet. I'm a huge patriot. I live by the quote that former President Bill Clinton said that everything that's wrong with America can be fixed by everything that's right. And I deeply believe that. And still, I sometimes am like, I don't have time to go protest. I have to go to work. I need to sleep. Like, how do you think about that aspect? Because I do feel like a lot of young people think about that. Again, I think your work, for example, is creating change, right? We're having this conversation so that other people can hear it. So, like, work shows up in so many different ways, and it doesn't mean you have to protest.

32:07Like, pick up the phone and call your uncle who said the racist thing and just have a conversation with him, right? Like you can do the work in so many ways. And so I think part of it is reframing the way that you think about showing up for your community and your country. I think that makes a big difference. I'm like a giant labradoodle. Like I just wake up and I'm this like super dorky, really positive human. So I'm just like a hopeful idiot. And I could not be an activist if I wasn't. I have to wake up and believe that things can be better. And I'm committed to how long they take. It doesn't mean that I don't have real anger about things, which I do find incredibly motivating.

32:43And the anger is important and it is very present in me a lot of the times. And then I just watch some tragic television and go to bed and I wake up and then we try it again. There is some criticism on social media about activism, that it can be performative. They say performative, not productive. I've heard kids call it slacktivism, like they say it's easy to post. Can it be both and should it be? I always think about it in like buckets. So like anything is better than nothing. If you're sitting there and like judging other people's way of showing up and you're literally not doing shit, I'd rather take like something.

33:20The point for me that is lost sometimes is consistency. I had this issue a lot with the ceasefire, right? Like, which is like, it's not like Beetlejuice. You can't just like say it, right? It's not even where you're pin. And then what do you think happens? Like you think no one thought of a ceasefire? No Camp David in all history was able to solve the most complex geopolitical conflict. You're going to wear a ceasefire pin to the Grammys and now everything's going to be fine in the Middle East, right? Like, what is the point of that? And so sometimes the issue is, like, I don't know what you're doing because it's not like everyone there doesn't want the ceasefire and everyone here doesn't want a ceasefire.

33:52So, like, you absolve yourself of any moral responsibility just because you say those words and we're here doing everything we can to try to solve this. That shit makes me crazy. Is that what people say is virtue signaling? I think so. I think it's like you're going to post a black square, but you're never going to do anything to hire people of color. So I think that also is performative activism when it's being referenced. I'm so emotionally invested in Time's Up. I was one of the first people to sign. We posted the things. We talked about it. And we all did trainings. And it was such an important moment in our collective consciousness.

34:25Like, I do think that the way people show up to work will forever be different because of that movement. It was so important, right? I remember testifying at the United Nations about the sexual assault of women in Israel. And it wasn't like something we just thought. I mean, there were firsthand accounts. The rapists GoPro'd it. They had manuals. So the Hamas had manuals for October 7th that taught them how to say, take off your pants in Hebrew, because that was a premeditated act of war. And so we hold this United Nations session. And it wasn't with like a bunch of fascists. It was like Sheryl Sandberg and Hillary Clinton and Kirsten Gillibrand.

35:05And I sent it to my feminist pioneers. Not a word. And that's the stuff that I don't understand. That's the integrity part. It's like you're so scared of your Instagram trolls, bots. Like, what is this? We can't hold this boundary together. Right. Something that feels so blatantly wrong. Yeah. When I talk to people about it in a corporate setting, I think the most important thing to think about is consistency. And I don't think people have to show up on every issue. It's like, I say this when we talk about influencers and activism. It's like, you don't have to say something about everything. If you want to talk about an environment that's amazing and that's beautiful and mean it, show up, like do the work, learn about it, ask questions, bring on experts, like do the work throughout your products, through your content.

35:49And like, that's it. You don't have to show up or be an activist about every single issue because then it doesn't feel genuine. I think it's 100 % okay for people to sort of pick their lane. But if you are going to speak up on 99 issues, then hold the line on the 100. Do you ever struggle feeling hopeless? Sometimes I struggle. I don't know that anything is changing. I know that it is because I know it takes a long time. But I think there are days where I'm like, did that make a difference? You know, because it's so much work, some of these campaigns and some of these movements. And I think you just have to believe in the change and how long it takes.

36:28But there are days where it's just like, can we be done? Do you just sleep it off? I love to cook. So I cook. And that's my biggest stress reliever. And I have a lot of dance parties with my girls. So like we just put on really loud music and just dance for a long time. Elie Wiesel once said, we must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. For anybody who is scared to speak up, doesn't know how, what would you say? You will never regret honoring your integrity. I was appointed recently by President Biden to the Holocaust Memorial Council, which was the greatest honor of my life.

37:09And I was in D.C. three weeks ago. And we had our first board meeting. We went to the museum. We had all these conversations. And we met with survivors and their families. And, you know, you sort of sit in these moments and you're like, the Holocaust didn't just happen, right? There were millions of decisions that everyday humans made that enabled Holocaust. And some of those decisions were silence. They were abusing somebody next to you and you didn't say anything or you look the other way. It was the first time where they sort of infringed on someone's rights and you didn't say anything. The first time they started removing people from their homes and you just were like, I'm sure it'll go away.

37:43This is temporary. All of the people and all of the decisions that they made and all of the people that enabled these leaders to get to this place are how you commit the greatest genocide in history, right? And so I think silence is really powerful. It actually is a decision. And I think that was the most important sentence from one of the Holocaust survivors who spoke. He said, silence is a choice. You're not being passive. You are actually actively making a choice to be silent. And that is a choice that you live with. You're not sitting it out. You're making a choice to be silent. I feel that when I watch these videos of people being deported right now.

38:25I'm like, oh, this is how it started. And you just feel like there's nothing you can do. So you've launched a new endeavor called One Mitzvah a Day. Can you explain the meaning of a mitzvah? So after October 7th, I started an organization called Calamay Foundation. And we have like a bunch of different projects that we've incubated and launched since then. And all of them are sort of meant to address a very specific concern or issue. I always look at it as like an opportunity to bring people together or change perspectives. And a mitzvah, I guess, technically means commandment, but it's kind of used in culture to mean a good deed.

39:03So there's such an organized movement to boycott Jewish-owned brands, Jewish authors, which is wild. And so I realized that the penalty that people were paying for standing up against anti-Semitism was almost too high because every time they would be doxxed, they would have people calling, people protesting outside their house, and they're like doing the right thing. I wanted to create almost a counter love movement, right? Like what if we just organized a community of people that said thank you? And so that really is how it started, which was every day you get a message and it's like Today, we're going to thank these people, members of Congress, Trader Joe's, Netflix.

39:45It could be anyone, any cultural leader, you know, Apple for parting ways with Kanye, anyone who just sort of takes the decision to do the right thing and making sure that they hear from our community as well how much we appreciate it because we do, obviously. And now we're starting to do more localized work, which is also what's really cool about the platform and being able to know where people are. We launched Mitzvah Maker Day actually last month, and that was just a day of service. And we had people in like 25 cities organizing community service projects. And we had like really cool, dorky swag and merch and like taco trucks and ice cream trucks.

40:23It was just awesome. And it was like a beautiful day out in your community. And that's like who Jewish people have been for thousands of years, right? Like our entire culture is rooted in Tikkun Olam, right? Which is this idea of repairing the world and doing good. And so to see the whole community just like out and like singing and eating and doing good was just like what I think fuels me to keep going. Your career has spanned law, media, fashion, tech, activism. You started as a corporate attorney. Then you became a talent agent. Then you served as VP at Rachel Zoe, Inc. Then you were chief brand officer at Everything But The House.

41:00You served as president of Archwell, which is the media and philanthropic company founded by Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. of everything on your resume. I'm sure there's things I didn't even mention. What position or job has taught you the most about yourself? I think everything taught me something pivotal. Like being a lawyer was learning that I can say no because that was my parents' dream. I just did not want to do that. And working with Rachel, like that was the most entrepreneurial environment you could ever be in if you're an entrepreneur. We just kept starting businesses and like there's so much trust in me to build and launch and lead.

41:33It was just like a playground. and I never learned more, right? And I'm a Voter taught me so much about the power of shaping culture and brand and what badass group of women can accomplish, you know? Archewell really solidified, like, the importance of storytelling and impact and how beautifully, like, those can work together and just seeing, like, both principals that I worked for, just how much they cared about both of those things and being able to weave them in through all the different facets of the company in them and what they wanted to focus on was really cool. And I think most recently I've just understood my own power.

42:09And just being able to keep going, to say no, to not be intimidated, to know that louder isn't correct. I think the world and algorithms are so hard for so many people. And it's so hard to decipher what is true. And you're a journalist, so you deal with this all the time, right? I don't know. I think the power of believing in kind of your own knowing, I didn't really ever have before. Really? Throughout my whole career, I always felt fraudulent a little bit because I was like, I don't belong here. Like they don't even know that I don't know anything or like they don't know that I'm like some little kid who was like no money, barely speaks English, right?

42:47Like it always felt like a little bit of imposter syndrome. And I was advancing so quickly and careers that everyone else like had done for 20 years before. But then the more you sort of advance, you realize like everyone's kind of just figuring it out and everyone's full of shit to some extent. And so you just learn to trust yourself. I always thought there was like a right answer and that someone knew what the right answer was, that everything always equaled something or there was like a multiple choice and one of the answers was correct. And so I think over it took me a very long time to understand that sometimes like it really is just gut or it is your ability to sort of pick a path and believe in it.

43:25And like, even if it's not right, you make it right. Did you have a specific pivot that taught you that? So I think that concept of like failing fast is really important, right? Like being able to look at any relationship, like a spouse, a cousin, a friendship, a boyfriend, a company, a job, a campaign, and being able to say like, this isn't working. And very quickly be able to pivot. And I've done that a million times. Like I'm a Voter wasn't called I'm a Voter. initially. And it wasn't clicking in my head. It just wasn't landing. And you're just like, it's not right. And I know it's not right.

43:58And then it just becomes right. There were so many things in my life that were like that. And the more quickly I think you can just respond to that knowing the faster you will get to where you want to get. That is like a skill I think that takes a lot of confidence to be able to say like, it's not landing. What's something about working with powerful people that nobody prepares you for? god there's so much i think the speed at which everything moves like everything is so fast and there's so much that comes at you and the ability to sort of be able to make decisions you don't have like time the way that i think you necessarily always want time like there's so many opportunities and so many things and so many requests and news and whatever that just comes at you and you have to very quickly be able to say like that one's right right these are wrong right and really believe in them.

44:46I think the ability to achieve so much, right, is so cool to me. Thinking about all the people that I've worked with, you know, the obvious ones and then the ones I've worked with as advisors and like just I think I gravitate towards people that think so expansively and that has taught me so much about being able to just do so many things at the same time. It feels contagious. Like expansive thinking begets more expansive thinking. Yeah. My like most allergic I am to people are the ones that feel scarcity minded or who like fixate on things that are wrong all the time. Because I'm just like, why?

45:24There's like so much. Even people used to come to me all the time. It's like, why did you start Kalanay Foundation? There's so many organizations that exist that combat antisemitism. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. Is antisemitism fixed? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, is there no room for other people to come in? Like, I can't think that way. Like there's always space for new ideas and innovation and people to come and partner. And like, I can't understand like people that are like jealous or scarcity minded, especially when it's like women on women shit. It makes me crazy. You are an expert of the pivot.

46:00Honestly, in my DMs, the women that listen and watch are usually really career focused and purpose driven. and there's a lot of questions about pivoting when it's the right time. I'm curious if you have one or two signs to know that you're in the right place, in the right job. There are moments in my career where I felt like I was dead inside and I was not learning. And when I feel like I'm not learning and I'm not growing, it really shuts me down. So that was always when I felt like, okay, it's time. But a lot of my pivots were led by my curiosity. It was more me chasing something I really wanted to understand or learn.

46:40I don't think it's ever too late. I think everyone is more than qualified to do anything. I genuinely believe that if you have common sense and if you will do the work, there's nothing you can't do. Truly. I think as far as like what is the right time, I think when there is that like deep curiosity when you're just like, get me out of here. Like put me in coach, put me in coach. that feeling of like, I just want to try this thing is the moment you should leave. And when you feel that curiosity, what are the things that you do to walk towards it? Are you a researcher? Do you call friends? Like, how do you navigate that?

47:16So like when you grow up in an immigrant family, like everyone does the same thing. I don't know if that was your experience, right? There's like three jobs that everyone has. So I didn't even know what other people did. I was like, how am I supposed to go out and figure out like what I want to do. I don't even know what is an architect. Like what does an editor do? Like actually if you work at a magazine what do you do on a Tuesday afternoon? I never met anyone that had these jobs. Never talked to them. So my husband who was my boyfriend at the time was like just take meetings with people. If you're not asking them for a job especially they're totally happy to talk about themselves.

47:50I was like great. So I took meetings with everyone I thought had an interesting job and I was like can I take you to coffee? And I did. I would just go to coffee. I'm What makes you good at what you do? And I would be able to listen and say like, oh Lord, I'm not going to do that. Or I would be terrible at that. Or that does not sound interesting to me at all. And then there would be something somebody would say where I was like, oh my God, I want to do that right now. And I met with this guy who was a talent agent. I loved brands. Like I was always obsessed with brands. I'd done licensing as an attorney on our hospitality team.

48:22And he was explaining what he did. And I was like, can I come to your office on Monday and work for you? And he Like I'm not hiring anybody. Okay, cool. I'll just show up. And then you can decide if you want to start paying me. But I think you sort of know. You feel it. Wait, tell me about the scrappy things you've done. I love those stories. I mean, even like as a kid, like I remember growing up in Beverly Hills with no money and this immigrant family. Then I got this cool job in college. And then I looked at these rooms and I was like, oh my God, everyone dresses so well. And I like went to the flea market and bought a sewing machine and I started making my own clothes.

49:02And then everyone was like, oh my God, you have the best style. Everything was sort of like something to hack in my brain. It was like, oh, okay, this is an obstacle in my path to whatever I deemed a success. And so it was just a matter of how I was going to hack that system. Now that I'm hearing more of your story, I'm wondering what it meant to you when you were able to purchase your own clothes and your own like nice pair of slacks or any of that. Did you care? There are moments still to this day where I'm like, is this real life? You know, I just can't even process where I am. And then I'm just so heads down working that I don't process it at all, which is the worst.

49:41I'm really, I would say more than anything, trying to learn how to be more like present. This idea of reinvention came up for me a lot when I was searching and prepping. And I'm wondering if you think there's something that people misunderstand about starting over, especially once you're at the top of your game. Because, like, you're constantly pushing forward. I think there are people who have careers and it's like, you know, you're at the same place for 30 years. That's not been your experience. Do you think people misunderstand things about starting over? I don't think that you're starting over.

50:14I'm really good at building brands. So like whether I'm doing it in fashion, in tech, for democracy, on anti-Semitism, for mascara, like it's sort of the same. I'm just applying something I'm good at to a bunch of different situations. And the learning curve in those situations is a lot. So I don't think that you are someone who is a very skilled accountant who's worked at a firm for 10 years and is starting over by taking a new job. Like you are clearly really organized, really meticulous. you understand the structure of working that you will apply to anything else that you do. I don't know why you do that job and then you can't go work in merchandising for a fashion brand.

50:56Like, yes, you may not know everything about that, but there are plenty of people around you that can help you for what will be a three-month hard learning curve. I don't think that it just like evaporates all this experience. You have two daughters. What about the way you are raising them? are you most proud of? I mean, I try to include them in everything. So we go everywhere together. I bring them on trips. Because I always feel like the best way to learn is through experience. And if I get to go somewhere cool, I want them to be able to experience it. And I think that makes a really big difference for them.

51:29One, so they understand what I'm doing, and why I'm away, or why I'm traveling, or what I'm spending my time on. But also because they get to meet incredible people. How did you go about raising a confident girl? I think part of it was just growing up in a family that there's just so much love, right? Like everyone in my family just constantly hugging and loving on these girls so much. If there's anything I felt like I lacked as a child, it was, I never felt like I was sort of understood by my family. I was very different than everyone else that was Persian and Jewish or everyone in my family so different than my brother.

52:09who was like the male surgeon figure. And I think given how much they had to figure out in their lives, they never really had the capacity to be able to say like, oh, you're really good at this or you like this thing. And like, let's go deeper on whatever that is. And so I felt like I was sort of on my own a lot to figure out myself and who I was and my interests. And I think I tried so hard with our goals, and my husband tried so hard with our goals, to really see their magic, like really from every moment that they were born, and being able to pull out what their magic is and hone in on it and share that with them and figure out, is that something you want to do more of?

52:48Should we take a class on that together and make space for them to keep nurturing it? And I think they have a lot of confidence in their own skills and not what I want their skills to be. What do you want your daughter to understand about her worth that took you decades to learn? That it's not defined by other people. And she gets to define what that is. I think I spent too much of my life wanting approval from other people. So you just launched Our Campus United. Can you tell me what prompted that? Yeah. So when we started seeing the huge outbursts of anti-Semitism on campuses, I started traveling to the different campuses, speaking with student leaders.

53:29We hired a publicist for some of them. We tried to figure out how to get them on camera, how to tell their stories, because it was so hard to break through. what they were experiencing. And then we convened a summit here in LA and had a bunch of these student leaders that were testifying before Congress come out here and really had like a two-day session where we asked them to lead with what they want. What are you not getting on campus? What's the support that you don't have? And these students all together, really under the leadership of this incredible woman, Yasmin Ohepsian, became our campus united.

53:58And so they're all sort of the founding team, very similar in parallel to sort of how I Am A Voter got created. And it started with being able to create a way for them all to convene, community events, bringing back joy, creating resource guides so they wouldn't have to figure out how to navigate anti-Semitism by themselves. And it was all of this amazing stuff. But one of the things we kept hearing from them over and over is that they were being like doxed or silenced or excluded from their student newspapers if they were Jewish or if they had any pro-Israel points of view, which was just crazy to me that they were prevented from those spaces or that their own student newspapers were writing terrible things about them and not giving them a platform to respond.

54:39Like multiple students had their own newspapers write things about them. So we went out and started talking to a lot of my friends who work in that space. And we thought about the importance of creating, again, one space where all of these students would not be silenced. And they could celebrate the joy in their culture and their opinions and interview people. And so the OCU Chronicle on Substack, and we have over 40 different students contributing, sharing their stories, interviewing big cultural leaders. And then we have, like, shopping lists and Jewish-founded products. And then you have like Samantha Ronson's like summer playlist and, you know, Jessica Seinfeld's cookies.

55:17It's just like it's great to sort of see community and culture celebrated and seeing these students share their voices. There's this kid who went to the encampment every day and invited someone that was protesting against him out to coffee and would have these amazing conversations with these kids. And they have one-to-one conversations and heart-to-hearts about their challenges. and, you know, he writes about what that journey was and what he learned and building those bridges with people that, you know, he never thought he could agree with. These stories are so important. And so being able to just like celebrate these students and give them a platform is pretty cool.

55:55Rapid fire. A common theme in your life. Never stopping. What makes you feel most alive? Dancing. And Shabbat dinner. Fill in the blank. Like, the older I get, the more I realize. How important rituals are to me. What's your advice for somebody who's finding their voice and learning to use it? Just use it already. A book that changed your life, something you think everybody should read. The Way of Integrity by Martha Beck. One Thing Every Woman Should Try Once. Two things come to mind. One is travel by yourself. And two is eyelash extensions. Honestly, that's the breath of womanhood right there.

56:36Okay, grab a Question Everything card. to please and pick whichever one speaks to you. What's something you wish people could see about you that they don't see at first glance? That is my favorite card in the deck. I would say a lot of people, when they meet me, tell me that they find me intimidating or they feel like I'm this harsh, tough person. And this, as I said, giant labradoodle in my own mind and in my heart. So I feel like that is probably the thing that's most misunderstood about me. Thanks for sharing that.

57:16Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

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1:00:10This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.