Is This a Men’s Crisis—or a Human One? With Dr. Gary Barker

24:24And I guess my big question, and I don't know that there's an answer, is how do we condemn the system without condemning the individual? And that's where I think it leans into. How do we help men see ourselves as beneficiaries of a world where women are safe to walk down the street? Women are safe to be at the workplace. Women are seen and heard and respected. That we as men benefit from that system working well, right? Rather than only talking about men as perpetrators within the harm. Oh, that's interesting. So talking about how the patriarchy harms men. Because it does. You know, it's not an instead of.

24:58It's not an either or. Right. We're not like counting the weight of patriarchy on our shoulders and saying, oh, it weighs more for me. That is not a very useful argument. But to say women experience this. How is that for you, men? How do you feel about it? That guy who is the harasser. And again, it's not about making these simplistically the same. But he's often also a guy who shuts up other guys, who also is bullying in some of his behavior often. When it is not safe for women to walk down the street, there's probably other things going on that I want men to feel responsible for. But also to acknowledge that safer street, that safer workplace, a world where a woman could be president is also a place that most men want to live.

25:35It is just a better, more humane space. Are you, in an ideal world, calling for more camaraderie between men? Yes. And between men and women for making the world better for women. And I believe that one of the ripple effects is it'll be better for men, too. Do you find that women have that camaraderie? Like, do we hold each other accountable for our wrongdoing? I can speak from my male body, so it's more what I've observed. Yeah. But you can tell me, right? There's obviously lots of, you know, kinds of verbal violence and aggression between women. Sisterhood is not this automatic thing that exists all over the place.

26:09But there is a political space that says women want to unite on having the world be safe and fair for us. We've not had an equivalent movement that said men should be caring, connected humans who support women being the best they can in the world. and we get to be better humans as males in the process. It's not easy to get in one phrase, but I think that's what we're after, right? I want men to see our stake in a world where women are safe, equal, and get to be their full selves. I don't want men doing that only as a favor. I want them to do it because it's politically right, but also to say, because I want to live in a world where women are safe, because it's probably a better world for me too.

26:48Yeah, I was going to say, I think the hard part about what you're asking is that being a human being is being self-interested. And so how do you overcome that? But you're saying that it is in your best interest. Yeah, or maybe self-interest becomes interdependent, which I think is a better word. Same more. So that I am because you are. We are in these same spaces together. We're breathing the same air. So it is partly, yes, if I see myself as connected to others and I'm responsible for them, your well-being is my well-being. I hope we get beyond just an enlightened self-interest to a, we're interdependent here.

27:23The household's going to thrive if, let's say, a heterosexual household, she's got income, so I don't have to do it all. I'm doing my portion of the care work so she can be what she wants to be in the world. I mean, I think good relationships work in that idea of interdependence. And usually when relationships break down is when we start just counting my chips compared to your chips. In my friends who are heterosexual, in their relationships, once they have kids, it's the most common thread I see. The biggest fight is he's doing less or she's doing less. I mean, having conversations about that is so vital.

27:59How do we get to a, I can't thrive if you're not thriving, rather than a guilt-based, you didn't do your additional 14 minutes of, you know, work over here, right? That's when I think we kind of break down a little bit.

28:20Okay, you've got a lot going on and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to-do list. I get it. So let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women to support the immune system, vaginal health, and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's Once Daily Probiotic is the real deal, don't, okay?

29:01They are certified non-GMO and doctor-formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life Formulas for Feeling Alive, available on Amazon. Disclaimer, number one based on Circona 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11-30-25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. What's up? I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think on and off the court.

29:43nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests. What's the vibe of that when it's like your star player is like, well, I want to leave and then actually now I'm going to stay. We talk tanking. I mean, honestly, like, I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's like definitely happening in the WBA. And yeah, we talk about our mistakes too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey man, we got a call last night, man, you can't be rolling around the city like this the night before games, you know, doing this, doing whatever. And of course, family stories. And we'll be like, Mommy, why did you miss that?

30:18Mommy, do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized Game with Studi and Miles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people were never taught how money really works.

30:57But once you understand a system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, Earn Your Leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math & Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.

31:37I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This season on Math & Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken, Take-Two Interactive CEO, Strauss Zelnick. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO, Sherry Weston, and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast will ferrell's big money players and iheart podcast presents soccer moms so i'm leanne yeah this is my best friend janet and we have been joined at the hip since high school absolutely now a redacted amount of years later.

32:36We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. Wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white claw or something? Here, just take it. What are y 'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic.

33:11You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh.

33:21Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

33:31Why do you think these conversations are so politically and emotionally charged? I'm sort of smiling with you because we were together in a conversation ahead of this and it got really charged in a way I wasn't anticipating. My takeaway was there is so much resentment and anger and frustration for people around this issue. I can't figure out why. You know, it's our intimate relationships. relationships when we're figuring out what it means to be in love and there's the happiness moment. And then there's the, oh, we've created a household together. Maybe it's got children that go with it. Then there's the administration part that comes into it, right?

34:10Like, are we doing our share so that the other can be all they want to be in the world? Are we willing to make the compromises? I mean, we also walk into relationships with these big ideals in our head and then we go, oh, it's not quite as easy. And I think we're obviously wrapped up in deep feelings about it because of what we expect from the other and what we think this relationship should be and what we think they owe us. It's a lot, I think, that we also expect of relationships in our American, mostly nuclear households. It's like your partner is your best friend, your amazing lover, your co-parent, your co-administrator.

34:42Like we weigh and lay so many things on one single person. It gets really thick. And can you maintain sort of generosity and humor and acknowledging the flawed humanity of the other and your own flawed humanity. It's pretty amazing when you can make it work, right? Honestly, all I was thinking is like, I can't believe my parents are still married. That's wild. So you wrote something I want to read back to you, if that's okay. Young boys and men in this country are not okay, and we are all paying the price for it. Whether through mass shootings, high rates of suicide, sexual assault, and attacks against women, hate crimes, or even the insurrection on January 6th, 2020.

35:22Some men are expressing their anger through violence and turning to despair and self-harm. I want to zoom out and start with our modern ideas around manhood. Who taught us what it means to be a man in America? Yeah, where did we come from? First of all, there was a heavy sentence now that I'm looking back on it going, man, what a week or month or year that was of, yeah, all that stuff is loaded there. Yeah. Where did we learn? I mean, from a rugged individualism, you know, that we can do it all by ourselves, a version of manhood that conquers our mythical empty country that as Europeans came and settled it, this, you know, I am the work that I produce, right?

36:00So the individual entrepreneur who can make it all happen, you know, lay on years of patriarchy that say men are in charge of deciding when and how sex takes place, that men should be the sexually active ones and women the passive ones. You know, So where do we learn them? Church, home, media, our friends, our peer groups, in our first interactions with our male and female peer groups. So it's all those places. It's in the water. It's in the air. You know, we do research in lots of those places, looking at how stories are told on television, looking at how parents talk about it. It's all those places we learn it.

36:34It seems to matter most kind of who we hang out with. Oh, interesting. And boys around you, and women too, who model, you know, a version and say, look, you know, This kind of tough guy version that leads to all these sources of harm is really not okay. It's not the version we're after. So I think it matters most those closest to you. Obviously, if you're not talking about it much at home, now we have this whole new space called the Manosphere and lots of influencers who are bringing a version of manhood in. But I still think it's kind of who cares about you the most that you're looking to for these ideas about manhood.

37:07It's interesting because in the manosphere, I'll listen to some of those conversations just to understand and hear. So sorry about that. That's weighty. I think my favorite definition of wisdom is to hold two opposing truths at one time. So I'm big on the other hand. If I think one thing, I want to know the exact opposite. And I think what I've garnered is that we are all angry. Women are angry and men are angry. And that's the charge. but I want to share something that's sort of like an armchair theory. And it's something I've experienced. Just get your opinion on it. So the women that I'm friends with or even meet are so excellent.

37:47And I don't say that in a like hyperbolic way. If you looked at their resume are really excellent at work and then they're excellent human beings. They work on themselves, whatever modality that is for them. They are good sisters and wives and mothers. and it feels like when we were growing up, the bar was so high for women. And sometimes it feels like the bar was not as high for men. And so as I'm dating, I'm not meeting bad people, but it just feels like they're not at my level. I know that's a big thing to say, but it's not just my experience. There's a lot of women who feel that way. And one of the things I'm wondering about men, what I've seen from being in romantic relationships is that men rise to the occasion.

38:35They really want to be good, to please. Like it's important to them. And I don't think we're doing a good job societally to say that. It feels like a negative conversation instead of a positive one. Give me your reactions and feel free to like yell at me and push back. I hear this from a lot of women as well. Like, what is up with men? Why is it so hard to find one who feels my fill in the blank, intellectual, professional, emotional equal? What have we done? I mean, that's a big generalization, but yet you're living it, right? And how you describe, you know, men you've met. You know, it probably is true historically that you could coast and be, there's even a book about this called Mediocre, about, you know, that men could be mediocre and kind of get a decent job.

39:18The world was sort of set up for us to go be breadwinners, even, you know, in jobs that we didn't have to really excel and be all that good at. Women have had to for a generation be, you know, as good as men and probably a bit better to get those same jobs. I think, you know, that steam is behind your back. And I think a lot of men were still, oh, wait, we used to just have to compete against other men and we didn't all have to be great. We'd all get a job. We'd find a place. So there may be something true to that, right? Men did not have to work as hard as women have over a generation or so to, like, say, we deserve to be here too, right?

39:50We say that every presidential election when a woman runs that she's got to be as good as the male candidate and actually a bit better, more emotionally mature and lots of other stuff. Right. I think that goes for any minority group. Yeah, exactly. You've really had to excel because the bar was held. I mean, the pressures and everything was there. You know, the other part that I will hear from men often is like, the things that women want from me. Like, I've got to be emotionally responsible in a moment and I've got to be tough enough to fight off, you know, the marauding hordes at the gate in the same breath.

40:20I've got to be able to do this and I've got to be able to do this. I've got to be able to be that amazing breadwinner and have endless time to care for children at home. Like, does she not see that I'm also doing all this work outside the home? So we have an economic stability at home. But I hear from men as well, this kind of that we're being held up to, can we do all these things? Can I retort really quick? Sure, you do. I think the retort from women, at least to my instinct, is I agree with everything you said. Yeah. And I do not think it is easy to be a man. The and part feels like that is what it is like to be a woman.

40:54Like you have to be a boss at work and come home and be sexy and demure. It is living in the and. So it's like, we're kind of like, why can't you do it too? Talking to some young men recently, they were like, you know, dating apps these days. And, you know, it's like, you're just judged. You know, it used to be you were just compared to like the guy next to you in the classroom. Now you're compared to like all other men on the planet. It was like, welcome to what women may have faced for a couple of centuries. I absolutely agree with you. It's not a very useful way in with men to help them through that angst.

41:25Yeah. Right. I will wait, you know, maybe half an hour into the conversation to go, tell me more about how you feel that way. And then maybe I'll land on what do you think women feel about these apps that now, you know, nudify them and, you know, fill in the blank. And I do think we both win if we figure out like just how much of these gender roles, to call them that, are just kind of crap. And they don't really help us get through the day and be the humans we want to be. That is part of the conversation we try to have with men. And as you realize these kind of pressures that feel outrageous on you as men, how do you think women have felt about it?

42:00And how might we both step into getting beyond them or choosing the ones that we like? There's no reason we can't hang on to some of the stereotypes that we find fun and interesting. But let's get beyond the ones that seem to get in the way of us being the humans that we want to be. Do you think it's realistic in partnership to have those conversations out loud? You know, it depends on the day of the week. Depends on whether after your 10 hours of work and you're trying to figure out who is putting food on the table and who's doing this. Like, do we have energy to be generous? But I think humor goes a long way.

42:32Yeah, I agree. Opening up to be like, oh, I never knew you felt that way. And it also helps, I think, talking to friends about it as well so that we don't think our partner has to resolve all of it for us. I think that's something that men will do a lot is let me tell you what I'm feeling and you have to work it out for me. That's another complaint I hear about women. And I would say probably myself, I've done that along the way of just, I'll tell you how I feel. But then the lift of, okay, thank you for sharing that. What are you going to do with that? And I'm kind of looking back at my partner or a previous partner going, I don't know, help me with that.

43:10I think that's where we have to help men quite a bit of like, good, you figured out how to express it. It's not her job in a heterosexual relationship for her to fix that for you or figure out what happens next just because you figured out how to express it. Thank you for sharing on that. And I've heard it myself of, thank you, but that's not my job. And, you know, some of it feels unfair because, yes, it's not your job, but when you're in partnership and you love somebody, you do things that are not your job, you know, and that's okay, I think. It's just there's a point at which I think women start to combust and say, I'm exhausted.

43:45Yeah, and you've been doing the emotional labor part. I mean, we talk about the mental load, but the emotional part. There's a heavy part that, you know, lots of heterosexual guys kind of think, yeah, it's on her. You actually just got to what I'm so curious about. Talk to me about the biological aspect of this. It's the part no one wants to talk about. I'm going to tell you a very quick story. When I was in high school, I was on vacation with my family. I have a younger brother. He's two years younger than me. And I'm not going to put him on blast, but he did something that I thought was so outrageous and egregious.

44:16I'd never been more upset. and he was sleeping and I went to my parents and I was such a tattletale. I told them what happened and my mom was horrified and my dad started laughing. And I felt so betrayed by my father for laughing. And I told him that and he said, I don't ever want you to feel that way, but what you don't understand is what it's like to have testosterone pumping through your veins and you will never understand that. And at the time I was very angry. And now that I'm 35, I kind of understand what he meant. with that context or framing. Are you comfortable talking about that? Yeah, I mean, part of what we talk a huge amount is about male sexuality and men's sex drive.

44:57And, you know, just there's no way not to talk about this stuff without also thinking and talking a lot about men's sexuality. So yeah, where do we go with that? We are obviously biological beings. And during adolescence at different stages, male and female intersects, we have sexual urges that are pulsing in a different way than they often do in other times of our life. What we do about it, you know, I think we have to not sort of put, oh, that's just, you know, raging hormones, sort of suggests that we don't have agency to say, actually, I have this big frontal cortex that lets me think about where things go, right?

45:32Okay, we develop that later as men, right, to be able to weigh outcomes, but it is still there. So I think we do want to lean in with generosity. And I think to your dad's comment, I would add the corollary, adolescent girls experience huge sex drives as well. We just don't laugh about them nearly as much. You know, look at the new Wuthering Heights movie with a female masturbation scene that usually don't show up in very many films, boys all the time. But, you know, a female masturbation scene leads to huge giggling when it happens outside of a porn film, right? So one is to acknowledge, yes, we have these and girls have that too.

46:11Who was allowed to talk about that. The other part is let's not give all that credit to testosterone, right? There's what's permitted. I don't know what happened, so I don't know whether your dad's laugh was actually useful to diffuse a situation or really inappropriate. But sometimes, you know, both of those things happen. Like we can just say boys will be boys instead of saying, hey, maybe this is not okay, and here's why. Let's not make it into a big repression moment, but let's talk through the why. You know, I think we often give a lot of credence at testosterone. The other part about the male body is that we're also wired to have the same things that happen different level.

46:45We don't have uteruses. We don't breastfeed. But the same hormonal changes happen when we're in close contact with babies. This happened to women's bodies. We're also wired to experience oxytocin. We bond physically with young children, regardless of whether it's our biological child, if we're in close contact with a child. The kangaroo touch, the skin-on-skin touch, these studies have been done with gay fathers who aren't biologically connected, of men of all ages. 13-year-old boys smelling a baby's head also have a decrease in testosterone. Wow. So we're very reactive to a world that says, do we just throw you into violent, aggressive spaces and let it all happen?

47:25Do we just bombard your brain with porn? Or do we also offer opportunities where you practice care? Because our male bodies also respond to that. So I think that's the part of like, let me talk about your body guy. This happens, but also you don't know that this part often happens too. Okay.

47:50You've got a lot going on and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to-do list. I get it. So let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women to support the immune system, vaginal health, and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's Once Daily Probiotic is the real deal, don't, okay?

48:30They are certified non-GMO and doctor formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life Formulas for Feeling Alive, available on Amazon. Disclaimer, number one based on Circona 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11-30-25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. What's up? I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think on and off the court.

49:12Nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests. What's the vibe of that when it's like your star player is like, well, I want to leave and then actually now I'm gonna stay. We talked tanking. I mean honestly like I might get in trouble for this answer but I think it's like definitely happening in the WBA. And yeah we talked about our mistakes too. They pulled me to the side and was like hey man we got a call last night man you can't be rolling around the city like this the night before games no you know doing this doing whatever. And of course family stories. They'll be like mommy why did you miss that?

49:47Mommy do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized Game with Studian Miles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

50:19topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people were never taught how money really works. But once you understand a system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, Earn Your Leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

51:14of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken, Take-Two Interactive CEO, Strauss Zelnick. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO, Sherry Weston, and her own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top. Listen to Math & Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

51:53Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip, just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate are youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar, why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something? Here, just take it.

52:23What are y 'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Could you imagine? I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh.

52:51Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

53:00Is there a place in the world where people are raising young men differently that you could point to and say they're doing a good job? Yeah, I don't know if I want to point to a place. There's a lot of households that are doing a great job. There is a generation of parents who are really concerned about their sons and their daughters. I mean, you could point to the Scandinavian countries where they push for gender equality for a lot longer. They've had paternity leave for a lot longer. There's a normality of men doing hands-on care of young babies that's been there 20 years before it's been in other parts of the world.

53:32So there's some stuff they do well, but I don't want to hold up any countries like you've figured it out. Western Europe has figured out sexuality education with a lot less craziness and repression. They do that quite well. But I also hear from parents there of we're really confused of what to do with our sons. I think it's more parents who are attuned, listening, modeling, will deal with those uncomfortable moments like with your brother, make a conversation about it, not just brush it aside. dads who are willing to get emotionally open with their sons and their daughters. I guess I don't want to make it like there's some, we don't have that magic sauce.

54:11It definitely helps if others around you are talking about this in open, honest ways. It helps if you don't have politicians that are belittling feminism and women's full empowerment and that are belittling any form of manhood that isn't about blowing shit up. Well, actually, to your point, do you see any really positive examples of modern masculinity in pop culture? Oh, man. Or anything? The Pit? Yeah. Do you watch The Pit? No, but I love the whole cast. Thanks to my daughter who said, Dad, you have to watch this. It's a really great masculinity show. It really is well done. Cool. Of caring men in caring professions.

54:45And then the lead ER doctor, they call him Dr. Robbie on the show. Really thoughtful. So, yes, there's a lot of the negative ones that make a lot of noise. but that's one that I'm kind of binging at the moment. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. I don't want to get you in trouble because this is a hot water question, but I am really curious, what responsibility, if any, do women have in helping to reshape masculinity? I mean, I think you're part of it. I don't want to say that women have responsibility for it. You've been picking up, you know, our mess as men for centuries, but it definitely is going to go a lot better if we figure it out together.

55:22The load has been on women for lots and lots of stuff. But, you know, we're not very good when we go off by ourselves and say we're going to figure this out. What does together mean, though? You know, it's the tough conversation at the dinner table over, hey, I do need you to think about doing this. Or, you know, your silence about this was a problem. Can you hear me on this? Yeah. And let's get through the discomfort. There's a part of our intimate life that's not quite going well for me. I want to be able to tell you without you, like, going off. But I believe we can work it out. I mean, you could tell your partner, hey, I need you to go, you know, get some better education about your intimacy to help me be happy.

55:58But I think it's going to be a little better if we kind of figure it out together. Without becoming like the therapist in a man's life, you think that having hard conversations, bringing up topics is really helpful. Yes. Okay. But again, I think, man, we need to take some responsibility. Yes, we need you to bring it up to us. But we also need to raise sons to be self-aware of, oh, I should think of this ahead of time. Yeah. I should be thinking about this as well. I should be attuned to who does this? Does my voice repress hers? Thinking about, you know, what brings her sexual pleasure. There will be moments women will bring this up and we need you to bring this stuff up.

56:37But I want men to be aware and thinking about those issues on their own. Right. To be a good conversation partner in this. And have thought about it before you came to that conversation. So I thought about this topic so much because people will say, well, I like chivalry. And I kind of think of chivalry as human decency. So I don't even gender it anymore. Like to bring flowers to somebody's house is just a kind thing to do, whether you're a man or a woman. Where I think we are still confused is like who pays on the first date? How do you feel about that? How do I feel about that? I hope that guys could get over that their self-worth is based on whether they can pay for that.

57:14I think there's an awkward and maybe fun discomfort of both might offer at the same time. And like, no, how about I get this one and you get the next one? I really hope guys could get over a moment that they feel like I've got to pay and that you would feel less than a man if she paid. And you couldn't say, hey, I'm paying. It's not like you owe me anything for this. How can guys say it in a way that it's not a power struggle? It's not with any expectation. and then to be generous enough, if that's the right word, just like common sense enough to go. And if she wants to pay, that's okay too. Like, okay, I'll accept next time.

57:49If there's a next time, can I pay? How would you react if a guy did that in that first payment? Says, I'm fine for you to pay this time. I'll pay next time. How about that? I've actually thought about this. I did something kind of interesting. I did a chivalry, I forgot what I called it. I did sort of like a cleanse at one point. I don't want to bore you, but I was in a relationship when I was like 25 to 27 or eight and he was Persian. And a lot of times in Persian culture, the roles are very traditional and defined. And it was my first big relationship. And so the roles were very traditional.

58:25And I grew up in a matriarchal house for the most part. And he grew up, even though he He had a single mom in a very patriarchal house and he paid for almost everything, including rent and dinners. Like, I think I forgot where my wallet was for two years. And when we broke up, I said, I'm never freaking doing that again. And I don't want to bore you with all of the reasons why. But after that, I started going on dates and no matter how I felt about the man, whether I liked him or didn't like him, I said, I would like to pay whether I knew I was going to see him again or not. and the way people reacted was really interesting.

59:02Some people were like, I can't let you do that. Some people said, oh, thank you so much. And then some people kind of reacted in the middle and they were like, well, I don't want to make you feel like you don't have to pay. I would like to pay, but I don't want to take away your power. And it was a good exercise for me. But now that I'm kind of over the hump of that and I feel like I'm ready to be a full partner to somebody and I think everyone has to make a personal decision. What I've garnered personally is I am a giver by nature and I really need somebody who protects my giving. And so I think on the first or second date, I would like the man to say, I got this.

59:40And then if we move forward, I'm wanting to be a full partner. Yeah. How do you feel about that? It's not really the important stuff in terms of whether you get along with somebody, except as a test. I mean, none of us are going broke in our first date usually, right? Totally. I mean, for some young men, it's a lot for him to put, you know,$60 down on a table. If you're in a different moment of like you're not full-time working or whatever. But for most of us, it's not really the contest. Totally. You could also go on a free date. You can go on a hike. Yes. Or you could both, you know, we're doing a 50-50 or something.

1:00:15Because I think we get along in relationships when there's a bit of fluidity. Like sometimes I'll pay, sometimes you'll pay. sometimes you know I'll date myself with a Bruce Springsteen song of like the one that's like if I fall behind wait for me if you fall behind I'll wait for you I mean I think that's sort of the give and take of a relationship that's going to work so I guess if you're doing a test for me the one should be like I mean life just requires that we're flexible and if you're trying to make a contest out of it maybe that's the red flag not the actual paying for it yourself because That's so nice, Gary.

1:00:48So maybe I'm trying to deduce something that actually doesn't need to be deduced. I mean, you know, I think I want to know if a potential partner is like flexible and not keeping score. There are moments we need to call out like if I'm doing all this lifting or you're doing all the lifting, but if it's starting off with like a scorekeeping, maybe that's not the way that we want to. I have to high five. Thanks for telling me about myself. I like that. We're all figuring it out along the way, but that's, yeah. No, I really appreciate that. I think you're right. Like, who cares? Yeah. Okay. So The Economist reported in June that there are signs of a bias in favor of girls that is emerging worldwide.

1:01:27What does that mean for how boys are being socialized early on? We're getting better, but moms are still doing more of the hands-on care work. So if moms think about raising a son, raising a daughter, feeling like, okay, more of the care work is probably going to fall on me. I hear lots of moms talk about, but I'm not sure I know how to raise a caring boy in today's society. I hear a lot of that worry. I think fathers, we need to step up and be sort of in the room as well and go, hey, we're part of this too. We know what it's like to raise a strong, caring boy. We can do that. You know, if you look at adoption, that's been the issue forever.

1:02:01Like folks want to adopt baby girls. They don't really want to adopt boys. And it does worry me. Like how can we look at, you know, baby boys and feel like I'm not looking at a potential violent human. I'm looking at this loving, caring person who can be that if I make the space for him to do that. So yeah, it does worry me that we think boys are kind of wired to be bad. It worries me too. I think when women have good men in their lives, whether it's a parent, a sibling, a romantic partner, you can put a face to it. It's harder, I think, if you don't have an example of that. Yeah, it doesn't mean that's got to be a dad.

1:02:43It can be a brother, it can be a cousin, a coach, a teacher. But I do think, yeah, we need to, in some ways, be able to see what does that look like? What is caring, manhood, respectful, but also strong, strong in an emotional way, not just in a physical way? What does that look like? I think we need to see it. And then also acknowledge that, you know, there's lots of kick-ass moms who are raising sons who are thoughtful and caring. It is a problem that there's not enough male caregiving happening there, but there's lots of mothers who are doing a fabulous job at that.

1:03:21Okay, you've got a lot going on and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to-do list. I get it. So let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women. to support the immune system, vaginal health, and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's Once Daily Probiotic is the real deal, don't, okay?

1:04:01They are certified non-GMO and doctor formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life, formulas for feeling alive. Available on Amazon. Disclaimer, number one based on Circona 52-week multi-outlet unit sales ending 11-30-25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. what's up i'm miles turnin and i'm brianna stewart and our podcast game recognized game has never been done before two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think on and off the court nothing's off limits we talk trade requests what's the vibe of that when it's like your star player is like well i want to leave and then actually now i'm gonna stay we talk tanking i mean honestly like i might get in trouble for this answer but i think I think it's like definitely happening in the WBA.

1:05:00And yeah, we talk about our mistakes too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey man, we got a call last night, man. You can't be rolling around the city like this the night before games, you know, doing this, doing whatever. And of course, family stories. They'll be like, mommy, why did you miss that? Mommy, do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized Game with Studi and Miles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.

1:05:36On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people were never taught how money really works. But once you understand a system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, Earn Your Leisure is the podcast for you.

1:06:15Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math & Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance, and everywhere in between. This season of Math & Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken.

1:06:49Take-Two Interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and her own chief business officer Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top. Listen to Math & Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms.

1:07:27So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar, why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here? Just hit it. What are y 'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would.

1:07:58Could you imagine? I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh.

1:08:21Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:08:31Your father, Bob, sounds like he was a pretty great role model for you. Is there something that you've picked up about how to be a man that he didn't teach you? Like something that you've picked up from pop culture, from friendship? He wasn't a man of a lot of emotional words. He was sort of quiet strength. Like I never doubted like his moral compass and sort of knowing what to do in a moment. But talking through conflict, I mean, I'll give a lot of credit to my female partner of 32 years, three. of just how to stay in an argument and still say, okay, we're in this together still. Yeah, I think I would give her credit for that.

1:09:14It's not easy. Knowing how to argue well, caringly, I think is really important for couples. It could be the thing. Yes. If you could put all your research aside for a second and just think about you and your own personal experience, what has been the loneliest part about being a man for you? I have been with a lot of thoughtful men along the way. Had a couple of health issues about 10 years back. But also it wasn't lonely. I mean, it was just because we are biological bodies. And if you think this illness could lead to, you know, your early death, there's a moment like that, that there's no way of not being like existential of this feels lonely.

1:09:50And some folks can talk about it and some can't. So I survived to cancer. I was fine and am fine. But yeah, being able to talk about that and find whether people could look you in the eye and talk about it. And hold it. Yeah. That is a lonely experience. And recognizing that lots of people go through worse. And so, yeah, I don't know if it's as a man or just as a human of like, we are biologically frail and grappling with that. Is there anything we haven't touched on that you think is important? I don't know. I didn't talk about my daughter. I could talk about her for a long time. Yeah. You know, if I think of other moments that kind of along my journey of, you know, thinking about caring fatherhood and being a man was, I was a part-time stay-at-home dad when my daughter was born.

1:10:31I was doing a PhD in Chicago. My partner had the full-time job that was at a clinic. So she had to be there every day. It's like really a frightening, but fun journey of being out of control. Like I can't control all the elements in the room here. And she's going to go and have needs that I can't really predict. And so my day and maybe the week and even a year was not anything what you planned to just like go with it. And now she's 28. And so I think thinking about what moms talk about a lot of just this amazing relationship of you're still that tiny human to me who needs everything from me to survive in the world to now this amazing smart out in the world, teaching me stuff, thought provoking me, you know, pushing my politics or whatever.

1:11:16And like, oh yeah, this is really cool. You've been a great teacher. That's awesome. She's been your teacher yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's not a really good course on fatherhood. So if you've learned it from your own parents, from other men around you, from your female partner who you're doing this together with if you're in a heterosexual relationship. But there's a huge amount that just you learn it by doing. And, you know, your child has a huge role in like you're off dad. You don't know what the hell you're doing. If you're willing to be that sort of modest and humble about it, it's an amazing learning experience.

1:11:49Okay, I'm going to do some rapid fire with you. What gives you hope about Gen Z boys? You know, they love their friends. In one sentence, what is modern masculinity at its best? Open, caring, connected, willing to admit that we're wrong, deeply loving. The most powerful thing a father can model? Humility, saying I was wrong. What's the most powerful thing a mother can model to her son? Not having been a mother. And I think about my own mother, just like the nurture, just like to feel my mom's power in the world. A policy change that would make a real difference in this? Oh, where do we start? universally accessible parental leave, fully paid would go a long way.

1:12:30And workplaces that have to offer it. Yeah. A small daily habit that strengthens men's mental health. You know, when you're talking to your buddy and ask him how he is, mean it and stay in the room. I mean, how's it really going? Tell me how it's really going. A book that changed your life, something you think everybody should read. I'll just give a shout out to one recent Sarah Hardy's book called Father Time about how men are biologically wired to care. I think should be a handbook for men. Like you should know your body. This is the species that you're part of evolved so that men are wired to care.

1:13:03Shout out to Sarah. The smartest decision you've ever made. Finding my current partner. She found me or staying in Brazil so that I could fall in love with her. One thing that every man should try once. Staying up all night to exhaustion with a child. Dr. Gary Barker. Thank you, Gary. I know you don't like the doctor. Thank you. I really appreciate this. I know it's not an easy conversation to have. Thanks for having me. Thanks for asking those questions. I appreciate you.

1:13:33Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

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1:14:33These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Peace to the planet, Charlamagne the God here, and listen, we are back. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yards. Yeah. And the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Eggs podcast. Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. JJ. Don't call me white girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive sweetie with Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King.

1:15:07And yes, Drink Champ will be in the building. Okay. Plus you know we're going to have a lot of guests. So you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace. The picture podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival. Don't play yourself, okay? Pull up.

1:15:31Earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone. Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Earn Your Leisure, and listen now. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dickens poll show are geniuses.

1:16:06We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, folks. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials, and what the hell is that Blake Lively thing about anyway?

1:16:46We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ, for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1:17:01This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.