This Is Why Your Dreams Haven’t Happened Yet: Morgan Radford (NBC News) on the Rejection Letters She Kept + the One Yes That Changed Everything

26:34And she said, and is there a wolf, you know, in the story? And I'm like, yeah, there's a wolf. I said the wolf was howling because people thought the wolf was scary. But Princess Adelana approached the wolf and said, I'm not scared of you, wolf. It's OK. I'm going to be your friend. And would you like to walk with my friends? And she's like, oh, yeah. So the wolf walked with them and they were all friends together. And so even teaching her to meet difference with compassion and curiosity, you know, that's my life's work. And to do it with this child and watch it stick is just the most exciting, healing, fulfilling circle.

27:12Well, it's almost like you're reparenting yourself at the same time. Yeah, which is interesting because when you ask, you were these different things, my parents were so awesome. I get this from them. They were front and center before modernity struck. They were front and center on LGBTQ plus issues, front center on having people break bread in our home that could explain different experiences internationally, taking us internationally. And my mother was always clear to teach me that, you know, minority status is relative. You may be a minority in this space. You're a heterosexual woman making you a majority in the vast majority of spaces in which you operate, right?

27:51You can get a Valentine's card made by Hallmark for you. That is not something that some of her friends get to do or her brother got to do, right? And so, yeah, I think like reparenting for modernity, right? Like reparenting in this new world, it's exciting. and it's a challenge and it's fun, right? Absolutely. So in the book, Lily gets this letter from her mom on the first day at Harvard where she describes being an immigrant parent as quote, an impossible calculation. You write, is the life we want worth risking the life we know? When you wrote that line, were your mother's words in your mind?

28:32Where did that come from? Because I found that to be one of the most powerful quotes in the book. Thank you. No, that was mine. Yeah. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. I think it's how I feel because it's what I take. That's what I took from the women before me. Okay. And part of that matrilineal descent, like, yes, my dad's family is Jamaican-Cuban, but it was because his grandmother came here. It was because his grandmother was this, you know, tall, mixed race black woman born in Jamaica who said, I'm going to live in three countries in my lifetime. And I'm going to have babies and I'm going to show that.

29:10Like, she never stopped asking, where can we go to be whole? Whoa, I thought you were going to say, what if? But where can we go to be whole is a very specific question. Where can we go to be whole? Why was that the question? Where can you go where you're not three fifths of a human? Where can you go where you can be seen for who and what you are and what you have to offer? Where can my kids have the best opportunity? And, you know, I looked at my husband, who's also the product of immigrants, and I said, hey, I'm never, I will have failed if I silenced the question that bore me. I'm comfortable now in what many will argue is just, you know, the land of opportunity.

29:53and yet I have to ask the question, even if the answer stays the same, I cannot be afraid to re-interrogate. Am I whole? Is my child whole? Is my child seen as whole? Is our family seen as whole in certain spaces and certain industries and certain companies and certain, right? Like, are you seen? Are you valued? So that's what I took from these powerful women before me. They were never afraid to ask the question and they weren't afraid to act on it. So who am I to stand on their shoulders and suddenly become afraid with so much more? I have so many more resources than they had. And so I think that is the question.

30:37That is the calculation that as cogent, thoughtful, responsible people, we should be asking. I recently had this experience, Morgan. and I'm Jewish and my grandmother's a Holocaust survivor, my mom's side of the family, all are survivors. And I got asked to write a speech and it made me do all of this excavation that I really would not have otherwise. And I came to the idea that I think I had hidden a lot of my Jewish identity or not hidden, not been loud about it because of some of the stories I heard growing up. It was like, this is something that we're quiet about and have only recently been able to come into Jewish pride.

31:26And that writing experience was so healing for me. It was so powerful. Out of all the things I do, I got paid the least to do it. It was so much work. And it was my favorite thing I've done this year. Wow. I share that to ask you, when did you know you had to write this story? Because it was coming from such a deep place in you. I want to go back. Okay. I'm happy to answer your question, but I want to go back. Because what you said is so important. And I want to tell you, it is never too late. This binary that society and this country often forces us into, black or white, Jewish, Gentile. I mean, it is categories fail us.

32:14Categories fail us as humans. Well, that's a theme in the book. That is the theme in the book, yeah. But I think for you, like that is so powerful that you can come to it however you choose to come to it at whatever age in which you come to it. And, you know, Jews and Blacks, we have a lot in common in sort of our story and our history of resilience. Yeah. And I think about that where, you know, in blackness, we didn't have as much range of choice, right? I mean, in terms of like hiding or not hiding who we were. But, you know, my blackness is what made me so empathetic. My Latinidad is what makes me so empathetic.

32:56It allows me to imagine myself inside the world of other people. Yes. And my mom, because of the time in which she grew up, her mother was part Jewish. And she was, you know, bullied during this time in her life and called little Jew girl as she's trying to walk to school and just, you know, the things that we know about in our communities. And I always wanted to like know more, learn more, and was in some cases hesitant, in some cases could lean in. My brother was much better about like leaning in and understanding. Because the point is, I think we owe it to ourselves to be able to ask those questions.

33:28to be able to ask the hard questions, whether we're 18 or 28 or 55, right? So I'm just, I really commend you on taking the journey, like letting yourself flow into the journey. And I hope that more people give themselves the freedom to do the same. Thank you for saying that. That means a lot to me. And also, I think we're so lucky that our work sometimes mandates that we excavate. Otherwise, you have to really carve out the time to do it. Yeah. I don't know when you took the time to write this book. Because I remember years ago watching you on Instagram. Every single day you were on a different airplane.

34:13True. That's when I was writing. So is that when you were, because, you know, books come out two years after usually. So you were writing while you were on the road. Oh, yeah. No, I was writing. Morgan, you must have been working 14 hour days. How did you have time to write? It was too much fun, Danielle. It was too much fun. Oh, my God. It wasn't like, I mean, I never thought I would write a fiction book. I met the book agent preparing to talk about a nonfiction project because I'm a journalist. That's what you expect. And after a two-hour meeting, at the very end, she looks at me and she was like, you know, Morgan, if you ever did fiction, that would be like, that would be hot.

34:52And I said, can I tell you something? and I told her the story of the real life Vikram and what had happened in college and post, the romance. And when I was done, it was the first smile I'd seen in two and a half hours at this point. And she's like, that's it. That's it. That's the story. And she goes, just like in everything, there's a time for books. You'll write your nonfiction, but this is the time for this story. And so I got to work. My kid was, gosh, I don't know how many months old. My husband sleep trained my baby from 7.30 to 10.30 after she had gone down, I just wrote. I couldn't stop writing.

35:26It wasn't even that I was like trying to write. I couldn't stop writing. So I'd be on the plane like as soon as they, right before, after they called, you know, bored military veterans, like I'd close my laptop and then get back on in the plane. I would do it in hotels. I would do, I remember being in like Montana on a story with barely any wifi. And I would just use my, you know, computer like a word processor. And it was - It flowed through you. It was the most fun, Danielle. So I've often heard from book agents, you have to write the book you least want to write. Is that what you felt in that meeting?

35:56Like it was sitting so beneath the surface or did you really want to get this out? I wanted to get it out. You wanted to. I wanted to get it out. Yeah. Yeah. You've spent your entire career telling other people stories. What did it feel like to put some of your story onto the page? Deeply vulnerable. It still feels deeply vulnerable. Yeah. Do you know how nervous I am for May 5th? Like, do you know how nervous I am when people actually read it? They're going to be like, wait, did this happen to you? It's a great book. Thank you. I'm incredibly nervous. Oh, I mean, there's one scene. There's a scene in the book where people would assume it was the hardest to write.

36:35And it wasn't. I mean, the hardest scene was actually this conversation between these two lovers. And it's almost like verbatim, as I remember this conversation happening in real life, not too many years ago. I mean, okay, this is, I've never said this before, but the night that this love interest from college resurfaced 12 years later and just said, hey, can we get coffee? And of course, I'm like telling my husband, hey, you know, do you mind if I have coffee with this old friend, blah, blah, blah. He's like, yeah, dude, fine. Like, you know, we went to college together. So we have a lot of similar friends and I know women he's dated, right?

37:16And I meet this gentleman for coffee, and it was so clear that he was processing in real time what had happened. It was like the breakup conversation that should have happened 12 years ago that I was not expecting. But there's something, as unexpected as it was, there's something beautiful about another human being holding this reality with you. Because if he hadn't said it, I would have just been in my own mind thinking this has happened. This is how I metabolize this experience. But having someone hold that reality and remind you that you're not the only person in the world who holds it, there's actually something beautiful.

37:53And the most beautiful thing about him and that entire experience was that he saw me. He did. He was able to. And here you have this British Indian from Yorkshire and this Black Cuban girl from North Carolina in a public school who met on the grassy knoll of a university. I mean, thousands of miles away, nothing to suggest that there was anything in common. He saw exactly who my parents had raised. He saw exactly who my parents had raised. That makes me emotional. And that meant so much to me to be seen in that way. I wasn't a box to him. And that, as you see through the conversation in the book, there were some boxes I was accustomed to as an American that not being able to see was also challenging, right?

38:44And so to have someone 12 years later have this conversation with you, girl, I went home that night. I took a pregnancy test. And it was like the biggest, by my husband. Yeah. My husband, girl. Plot twist. And I just, I thought of, and the symbolism of that, right? Yeah. What if that makes you emotional? I know it makes me emotional, but what if that makes you emotional?

39:23I don't know. Wow. I don't know if it's a me thing or a storyteller thing, but I think I and we have spent our lives living in other people's stories. And you've done breaking news for 10 years. I did breaking news for two years. And when you're doing news or journalism in any capacity, you are, I think, removing your feelings from the presentation of it oftentimes. It's required. It's required. And I often think to myself, are people who are good at compartmentalizing drawn to this work? Or does that come as a muscle because of the work? Maybe a little bit of both. but I feel that so few people have seen who I am and when you said I was not a box to him I was just like so moved can I tell you something yeah no one's ever done this to me in an interview no but I well and I at the risk of being corny and I was going to tell you this when we got off camera.

40:36Danielle, this is the first time I've gotten to meet you in person. But I have to tell you, like I watch every one of your Instagrams. I watch all of your stories. I watch all of your interviews. My first question I was coming in here is, is she going to be tired? And my thought was, you emotionally excavate for so many people. I'm like, she must be doing this type of work at scales. I said, I wonder if she feels tired. Because to do this, you can only do it in authenticity. You can't do this work and fake the funk. It can't be done. And you do it so well. And your questions are so poignant. They're well-researched, obviously, but they're so poignant.

41:19And they really hit, I mean, right in that muscle, right in that solar plexus of someone's emotional shape, that you were meant for this. And like whatever shape it takes, the shape will follow you because you have the talent and you have the skill. And it was what you were put here to do. That is obvious. Whether it's obvious to you, it's obvious to us. And I think by doing this work and exactly the way that you're doing it, you're creating space and inclusion. And that's why I love the story about what you wrote, because you're allowing the world to also impact you. You're impacting us by the stories you tell because you're always getting, I forgot whose interview I saw recently that you did.

42:04And it was such a vulnerable space for this like very high profile person to like acknowledge this very vulnerable moment in their career and to have, to make them feel safe enough to acknowledge that. And by virtue of acknowledging, empower others to acknowledge and feel free to acknowledge their vulnerability. That's a gift. And I'm really, I'm really proud of you. You are incredibly generous, but... No, I just hope you receive it. I receive it. And I receive it because it's in you, you know, like... It is. But this is yours. That's your flower, girl. I want you to hold that flower. Thank you, Morgan.

42:42Thank you for that.

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45:38I got emotional because I think romantic relationships, and especially the one you write in the book, because it's like, will they, won't they? It feels, those are where like the mirror is held up. That people really do see all of you, the good, the bad, the ugly. So I hope people read that passage, if absolutely nothing else. I appreciate that. I mean, and that's why I say that that juxtaposition of like finding out I was pregnant, you know, at the same time, it was so interesting because as women, we have multitudes within us. Yes. We have so many lives. Just because I'm a mom now and I'm a married woman doesn't mean that this life didn't exist before.

46:20Or now you're still a woman in her 30s. Yeah, but it's like there's a life still. These multitudes of who we are and who we once were get to coexist. They get to inform one another. And I think there's this like false notion that once you do get married or once you figure out your romantic life or once you, you know, whatever, lo que sea, that, you know, you erase everything that came before. And that, to me, I feel like is such a disservice to who we are. I completely agree with you. Yeah. Well said. For people who don't have insight into a news anchor reporter's life, what is the truth that people would understand differently if they could see what happens off camera?

47:09That the glamour is a very small portion of it. They see us with a hair and makeup team and are like, oh, that's a cool job. It is, that is the smallest piece. That is the smallest, should be, if you're doing your job, the smallest portion of your day. At its best, this industry is a thinking man's game, right? This is a questioning woman's game. This is, if journalists are good, teachers are good. We're teaching a society, you know, what resources to use and what's happening and how. And we're helping them report on the what by giving context in a way that allows them to deduce the why and the how, right?

47:56And I don't know that people always see that. Like, I don't know. I remember I was doing this interview in front of Trump Tower during the first term, actually when he was running. And this woman I was interviewing in real time, she's like, you know, I don't, she gave me the answer. You know, why are you here today? What speaks to you about this administration? What speaks to you about this moment? What are the issues you care most about? She answered, lovely conversation. And then she's like, well, you know, I don't trust the mainstream media. I don't trust all y 'all are fake news. And I stopped.

48:27I'm shocked I actually had the wherewithal to stop in real time because I was a rookie reporter. And I said, sorry, you think I'm fake news? And she was like, well, not you, but everyone. I mean, everyone else. And I'm like, well, no, no, I'm here. I'm in the news. And I remember saying, you know, do you think I left my family and do you think I left my friends and I've been living out of a suitcase for seven weeks because I have something to say? Because I just gave you this microphone and allowed you to have full range and free reign of what you wanted to say. Did I tell you what to say? She was like, no.

49:04I said, did I edit what to say? I mean, this is a live interview. So what about this feels fake to you? And what would my motivation be? Like, I'm curious what I would get from this. What did she say? She was like, well, like I said, you were great. But Susie, Susie now, come on. You know, right? And I think people don't realize how hard this job is, right? Like, there's a lot of personal sacrifice, especially in like the early years, right? I mean, I couldn't maintain a personal relationship because I was not in one place. I always say that like the guys I was dating at that stage of my career could not have sustained a relationship with me at this stage in my career.

49:48It was just too different. And so I don't think a lot of people see that. Like most of us do this because we couldn't imagine doing anything different. Most of us do this because it's a calling. the form of storytelling and reflection of society's values and questioning of power is fundamentally who we are. And I don't know that that is always clear, which is why, at least in the work I do, I always try to be transparent, whether that's on my Instagram stories or posts like, hey, look, this is a tracking mic. When I stop at this location, after I get off this puddle jumper, I'm going to get like edge control in the middle of like I'm driving this rental car in the middle of the night and I'm going to get one hour of sleep.

50:34I think transparency is how we build trust. And I think right now viewers need that more than ever. I notice you do that often on your Instagram stories. I really like that. Thanks. That's why. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. Where does all of your emotion go? You just saw me get emotional. Where does all of your emotion go when you're covering breaking news and it's a really rough day? How are you when you come home?

51:03And my village is so important. And I think people talk about community. I have realized in doing this work how important, deeply important community is. And not just like capital C community, but like little c community and the small interstitial spaces. I think of a time it was not this election, but the previous. I was with my producer. We went home. We went home to North Carolina to a different part of the state. and at that time, there had been a lot of ballots that had been inexplicably rejected from the North Carolina voter rolls, and we were going to investigate it, and one of the county clerks, I believe she was, tried to kick me out of the building.

51:51Me. My producer is white. Mexican, but white presenting. Me. Not us. Me. And when he said, whoa, whoa, like, this is just our job. This is also a public sidewalk. I mean, you can't kick us off the public sidewalk. She said, I'm not willing to talk to her. And she would only look at him and address him. Oh, my God. And I remember how chilling and how deeply embarrassing it was for me. And that it happened in my home state. Mm-hmm. And I remember how small I felt. Like, this woman, you know, successfully made me feel small. And I remember getting in the rental car and just bawling. Mm-hmm. And my producer saw me.

52:44And there was also, like, a complicated feeling for me about, like, how should he respond to that moment? Like, do we want to just get the story and, like, not, you know, start a revolution just to, you know, or, like, would it have been more meaningful to just have someone see me and say, like, regardless of what happens or what came after that? And he saw me when he got in the car, and I just, I was crying. And I said, all of the things I've done, they still don't matter. All the things I've done. Like, I played by your rules. I did all the things. I went to the best schools. I spoke this many languages.

53:22I was kind to people. I reported. I was a good company soldier. And this one woman still could say, I won't engage with her. In one moment. In one moment. And I've had lots of moments in my life, of course, I think most minorities have, where those things have happened. I think they're much more crushing and scary and deflating when they happen with systems. because people expect it for moments. Like racism is not in 2026, someone calling you the N-word in the grocery store. I mean, if you're waiting for that moment to declare something racist, you are going to be waiting for a long time. Like it is in the isms.

54:01It's in, you know, I had a very difficult boss for a sustained period of my career. And it became clear that under her, I could not have a career. I could only have a job. I could only have a job. It's what you see is what you get. You are not allowed to dream or think or desire for more. And everyone around me, she would homogeneously hire, and everyone around me would get more. They would get better titles. They would get better opportunities. They would get better pay. She didn't change my salary in six years. And she was allowed to do so, and the system was complicit in allowing her to do so, right?

54:37That is the type of ism that is far more pervasive and perversive. And I think those moments are harder to metabolize and are the ones I rely on a community of aunties who say, baby, this is unfortunate, but we have seen this before. Yeah. Baby, this has happened to me and you too will overcome. And I have to remind myself, and it's the community that reminds me of the fact that I stand on soil of a country that was built by people who, even when they were told the worst was happening, even when the worst was happening to them, they still had hope and belief that a better day was to come for them.

55:25how can you not be resilient when like that's the shoulder upon which you stand right what has it been like to have to soldier through some of these things that I I would categorize as chipping away at your soul I think you would categorize that correctly look it's hard it's painful it's othering It's undeserved. And I think holding onto that, like the one thing I'm so, I feel so blessed my parents gave me was, you know, this sense of, like up until this point, but no further, you know, there's something inside of me that has to remain impenetrable, has to remain impenetrable. It is not porous.

56:18So you don't get to tell me who I am. You can try and humility we can discuss. Certainly we can take feedback and we can, hey, whoa, that's great. But like at the end of the day, you are not allowed to tell me who I am, right? And I pray that my daughter walks through the world and that it is necessary. It is absolutely necessary. Part of me feels as if, because a big question in your book is, where do I come from? What is my story really? and I think because you have such a deep knowledge of where you come from, your daughter will inherit that. But it's actually, I think, something that will be a beautiful outcome of your people reading your book is them questioning, well, where do I come from?

57:09What is my story? And there's so much strength and power in knowing where you come from. And you keep using the phrase standing on the shoulders. I've felt it in my life. Do you refer back to that often to cultivate strength? Absolutely. I think the ancestors for me are what religion is for others. Yes. Right? It's just like, past is prologue. No, no, I've seen this before. My faith isn't blind. I have seen this before. And I've seen it in my own life. I've seen it through the now then periods and the now what periods, right? where God, the universe has sustained me. And it's always worked out more beautifully than I could have imagined, always.

57:54And so I genuinely hold that as a belief that the best is truly, truly yet to come. That is one of the gifts of age, I think. And wisdom. It's a different type of security. It's a different, so like now, Now when the now what periods come, I have so much more. I have so much more knowledge about who I am, about what I offer. I'm not afraid to say what it is that I offer. I'm not afraid to say what it is that I think I'm worth. I have data, right? Skills that I didn't have when I was younger. But I also have a piece. And a faith. Faith in self. Faith in ancestry. When you've seen some hard shit, like, you know, I think, and when you ask about the question like journalism, like, what do people not realize?

58:49You know, not even just journalism. When you have any modicum of publicity, of a public life, you know, these Wikipedia pages are in some sense is a disservice, right? You're going to Google me and be like, oh, you know, Harvard check, Columbia check, da, da, da, da. You have a lot of checks. I'm going to be honest. But the craziest part is they're going to see all these peaks, but they're never going to see the valleys. They don't see those 11 months or whatever when I was looking for a job. They don't see the number. The reason I went to Network News was because they were the ones who were going to take a chance on me.

59:27I applied to every local news station from here to Juneau, Alaska, and got rejected from every single one. The story didn't end like, oh, yeah, and then I got into Biloxi. No, I got rejected from every, I saved some of the rejection letters. And I got rejected from Columbia when I applied to school the first time from South Africa. And here Nancy Han and I are thinking, well, who in the world is rejecting Morgan Radford? It's like plenty of people. And so, you know, it wasn't until I applied to Columbia a second time and then I got a Fulbright scholarship. And so, you know, I just think that, especially in this like Instagram, social media world, like people are so busy showing their high, which is great.

1:00:07We love to celebrate. We love to celebrate achievement and peace and process and all that stuff. But I think there is this vulnerability that it's risky for sure. But the reward is connection. And that is just, I mean, that is worth its weight in gold. And that connection is what builds that community that will sustain you in those periods.

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1:03:09Like a new laptop if you're eligible and enroll in select online or on-campus programs. That means flexible and engaging online courses and resources, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. Online nationally or check out their 20 campuses across six states. Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen.edu.

1:03:38I've also felt that when you see people and you see the human spirit in really tough moments, the way you pull from your ancestors, you can also pull from them. You know, it's like, oh my God, I interviewed this person who had cancer while trying to raise three children on welfare. It's like, I can get through my bad day. Yeah. You know? Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. There's a lot to learn from them. I think so. Have you ever questioned your path entirely? Which path? Your path in journalism with all the no's that we didn't know you got. But I have never, ever questioned my career. I have questioned certain jobs.

1:04:27Yeah, that's fair. I've never, ever. And I think that's really healthy, actually. I think if you are in spaces like the one that I mentioned, where it's clear you're not being valued, it's clear you're not being seen, it's clear people like you aren't being valued and seen. I think it's necessary that you reinterrogate and ask why you're there. and if you should be there, if it's healthy to be there, if that's the kind of system, when we talk about looking at the C-suite and the senior leadership teams and the wedding pictures, is that the environment where you will best thrive in? So I've definitely questioned that, which I think that process of questioning brings a lot of clarity, but I have never questioned this career.

1:05:09I love it. I still get giddy. I still wake up before my alarm. You do? Yeah. What does it mean to you to be a journalist right now? Right now? Yeah. Wow. That's a different question. To be a journalist right now, those are two distinct questions. To be a journalist is to be a truth teller. It is to give fact and in some cases shape to fact. And it is to give platform to voices that need it and to shine a light in spaces where there's darkness. In this moment, I think being a journalist is being unafraid of power and systems of power. Whoa. I think before that was an element, right? And we've heard that truth to power, accountability.

1:06:04Sure, sure, sure. That's all true. I think when your paycheck comes down to it in a different way, in a more urgent way, you know, that portion of this role becomes outsized. What are you willing to do? What will it cost you to hold power accountable? And are you willing to pay that price? That's the mark of a journalist in this moment. and I don't know how long that moment will last. Are those questions that you've had to ask yourself? For sure. You've said that motherhood gave you a fourth dimension and a way of experiencing the world that you didn't even know was possible. What did it make visible for you that you hadn't seen otherwise?

1:06:55That's a great way to ask that question. I see the world in technicolor now. Whoa, Morgan. Yeah, I see the world in technicolor. How beautiful. I cannot overstate the profound impact it has had on my vision, on my courage, and my capacity to build. I think what motherhood taught me, something my mom, I think, had tried to teach me, but I didn't see until I had my own kid, is that you already have everything inside of you necessary to engineer the life that you want. My mom showed me that, you know, dreams aren't something you have. It's not a passive process. Dreams are something you build. It is a very active process.

1:07:46So you're not waiting for things. I'm not the type of person to ever wait for something to just stumble my way. But the dream is like an active building. You have it. So while I'm saying it takes one yes, right? Whether we're building podcasts because we've heard no's or career because we've heard no's. I think my kid showed me that this is real. You really, truly can. I mean. Because you look at her and think you can do anything? No. I look at her and think I can do anything. Whoa, Morgan. It's true. That gave me chills. It's true. I mean, I think it's great when you live for your kid and stuff.

1:08:27She's definitely the most important element of my life. But no, I'm doing this for me. She's going to have a full life with her dreams. This is for me. Yeah. I mean, I wrote this book because it was my story. Now it ends in a letter to her and what I want her to take from it. Because my most important legacy is her and through her. But this was my story to tell. This was for me to feel the richness of telling and sharing this story and of learning that I could financially close the wage gap that I had experienced when not valued, right? Like when I was telling you there were experiences that I was having that said, okay, we're not going to do X, Y, or Z or honor your work or give you a raise.

1:09:11This was a way to close that gap, even financially. what a mind-blowing experience to be able to create and be rewarded additionally for something that is uniquely yours that no one can take away from you right I mean that is a huge thing that I think just like bringing this life in the world and seeing that it was so natural and that I do feel like I'm getting it right in what I'm teaching her. She just lives life with such reckless aplomb. I mean, she was walking on the street yesterday, just hola, hola. She expects good things to come. She expects good things to come back to her. And so I'm watching this and it's not just like I'm in awe of her.

1:09:56Honey, I created her, to be clear. Like part of that is just, of course, innate to her, but I also created an environment and a system that allows her to expect such good things. So why should I not be able to invest in myself in a similar capacity. Do you think your husband married you knowing this woman's going to be an amazing mother? Was that something that he has said to you? I don't know that he said it in those words. I don't know that he's had to, because since we were 17 in Elliott Dining Hall and we were just friends, he told me he wanted like a soccer team of kids. So I knew that being a father was so important to him.

1:10:38I don't think he would have chosen someone who he didn't think the ride was going to be really fun with. But a fun ride is different than an amazing mom. They're not necessarily binaries, but... That's interesting. He did say once after the baby that he was surprised. He knew I was going to be into it, but he was sort of blown away by how deeply... My kid is super attached to me, I'm super attached to her. They talk about Velcro kids. I'm like a Velcro parent. It's like, we snuggle. My husband, I realized, I only noticed the other day. I don't know why I hadn't noticed it before. Do you know that ever since we've dated, we hold hands when we watch TV?

1:11:19And I didn't even notice it. We were watching the other day. And it just dawned on me. I was like, oh, I don't know if that's a thing. And my kid, she holds our hand when she watches TV. Yeah. So it's like, I don't know if any of us knew how much I was going to love this. And I say that to say, though, none of her godparents have kids. I would say the majority of my friends don't have kids. I love adult company, and I love connecting with adults. So I don't think that motherhood is like some holy grail for all people. For me, it was a unique and profound joy in a way that's honestly a very private joy.

1:11:55I talk about it in these circumstances, and I'm fine putting pictures of her up. and stuff like that. But it's not something where if you like see me on Fifth Avenue, I'm like kikiing about my kid. Like that's not, it's a very private experience for me because I still like interact with the world as Morgan. And like, I probably don't bond super well talking about like, you know, diapers and strollers. That's not really my vibe. But, you know, privately, the marrow of who she is brings me such joy and excitement. That is so awesome to hear. Okay, so you mentioned something that is intertwined with my last question because there's a letter at the end you said is to your daughter.

1:12:36When your daughter and your unborn new daughter or son read this book one day, what do you hope that they understand that you were carrying. That I was carrying? Yes. Interesting. The weight of finding the break in the fence so that I could be included and so that I could be seen. That's what I was carrying. And what I hope that they take from it is that they already have everything inside of them necessary to be and do whatever they want in this big, beautiful world, in this bountiful life. And that for them to do that doesn't actually require that someone else see them to make that possible.

1:13:26Sometimes I'll be in conversation with people and someone asks a question and the temperature of the room changes and you can just feel it. Do you know what I mean? You just brought the temperature of the room down. Thank you. I have some rapid fires for you. Oh, yeah, sure. Okay, something you're still figuring out about yourself. Girl, how to do my hair. Your hair always looks good. How to do natural hair. My husband's like, you are like a 14-year-old on YouTube trying to figure this out. You would think at 38 by now, you would have figured it out. I'm still trying to figure out natural hair.

1:14:00I feel like you figured it out. I have not figured it out, but God bless you. God bless you for saying that, yeah. Yeah, I've never thought that. That's kind. The struggle is real, though. Just true. A moment you almost walked away from your career. Maybe that's heavy. We could skip that. Never. A story that stayed with you longer than you expected. A story on an adopted family. I have never been able to get adoption out of my mind and leave that door open very actively open for my family. A truth that you're avoiding. Oh, that's a good one. I don't know. It's a hard one. That's a hard one. How about a version of success you no longer want?

1:14:41Oh my God, I have so much I want to say to you, but not in front of these microphones. Okay, how about a book that changed your life? Something that you think everybody should read? Oh, Pat Conroy. I would say anything by him, but Prince of Tides. Easy. The smartest decision you've ever made? To have a kid. Something that every woman should try once? hmm trying to think of a pg answer hold on it doesn't have to be pg this is a podcast we're not on tv something every woman should try once like the type of romantic kiss you can only read about in the rain woo morgan yeah that was a good pg version to whatever you were thinking I was like so tulum no yeah And then from the question everything card game, what is something that people don't see about you at first glance that you wish they saw?

1:15:44I'm not sure if they see it, but a need for gentleness and tenderness. Wow. I feel that immensely. And I'm not sure. I think some people see it and some environments see it. But I don't even know if this environment, like in New York, thinks anyone needs it. So I don't even know that that's a me-specific answer. but I think like gentleness, not kindness, not respect, not like just gentleness. And I love that about the South. So I do feel like I get that there, but yeah, a need for gentleness. Beautiful. I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Thanks for sharing so much of yourself.

1:16:19Thank you. On the pages too. Really fun. I'm so excited for everybody to read this book. Oh, I'm so nervous and excited. Oh, it's going to be amazing. Thank you, mama. Yeah. Gracias.

1:16:34Morgan Radford:Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

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1:18:38For a wardrobe you can count on season after season, visit coldwatercreek.com, shop new arrivals, and save 15 % on purchases$75 or more with code IHART. When it comes to advancing your education, you have more options than you think. At Rasmussen University, we find ways to remove barriers, not build them. Like a new laptop if you're eligible and enroll in select online or on-campus programs. That means flexible and engaging online courses and resources, tuition savings options if you qualify, exceptional student support, and much more. Online nationally or check out their 20 campuses across six states.

1:19:13Start when you're ready and get the support you need. Visit rasmussen.edu. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.