Too Young for Cancer: Sydney Towle on Fighting for Her Life at 25

22:33Sydney Towle:Where are you experiencing peace or joy right now? It's always by the beach because I grew up by the beach in Florida. So I think whenever I'm by the beach, and I think a lot of people feel that way by the ocean, it's just very calming. I read on today.com that you were not able to freeze your eggs or take any other precautionary measures ahead of getting treatment. Yeah. What does that mean for you? I actually woke up thinking about that this morning because a lot of my friends who have had cancer, because I've met a lot of people in this community, did freeze their eggs before. And I feel like for some reason, it wasn't brought to my attention that it was an important thing to do before starting chemo.

23:13I think also because we didn't know how long I was going to be in chemo for, which is now indefinitely. And I think about that very often, especially when I'm dating or trying to think about the potential of a future in a family. It makes me really anxious and sad to think about the fact that I didn't freeze my eggs ahead of time. Because you need, at least this is what they told me, you need a couple months off of chemo or like at least a month to be able to do the process of freezing your eggs. and I don't have that time off, so I'm not able to do it. So I'm kind of waiting for that day that hopefully I'll get a break and I'll be able to do it just so I have that safety net of feeling like one day if I am able to have a family and I want to have a family, I do have that potential, which obviously there are other ways like adoption and IVF and stuff, but it is something that I wish I had done ahead of time.

24:01Sydney Towle:I like that you're thinking about a future though. I know. I mean, it's important too, I think, to like have something to hold on to and to like fight for, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. So talk to me about your regimen right now. What does your day-to-day look like when you are experiencing chemo? I wake up. I do my get ready with me for chemo, go slay some chemo. My mom will normally come with me. And then we go home and I try to work. I work remotely. So I work remotely as much as I can. And then I sleep the rest of the time. And I really am just waiting for those two or three days to pass to where I start to feel normal again.

24:39Like the day I feel like I woke up and I started to feel a little bit more like myself again. And that's just the best feeling once I start to come back to myself. The brain fog starts to go away and I start to feel like Sydney again. That's like the best feeling.

24:58This is Tony A.O. from The Real Report with Tony A.O. and Uncle Murda. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up. Streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the will it go up soon game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life.

25:33Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s and when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at Boost Mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay$25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Hello, hello. This is Malcolm Glabal from Smart Talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari HP.

26:13Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari. I'm still working on rolling my R's. But what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age. Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team. You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history. And now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions. When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

27:01To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit ibm.com slash Ferrari.

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29:14All of that available at MeaningfulBeauty.com.

29:24Sydney Towle:So you underwent five months of treatment, and then your progress allowed you to undergo surgery, which had been the initial goal, correct? So in January of 2024, you had a liver resection, is that what it's called? and your gallbladder was removed and then you had several abdominal lymph nodes taken out. Yes. And the plan was to resume chemo afterward, but there was a combination of positive margins, which means residual cancer cells, and your white blood cell count that never really rebounded. So what happened after that? Yeah. So I went back and I had one session of chemo and then they looked at my blood work the next time and they were like, we can't give you chemo.

30:04Your numbers are too low. And hearing that, I think for any cancer patient, is one of the worst things you can hear. I've had other people tell me that too, which is a weird thing to say because you hate going to chemo so much. But when they tell you that you can't get it, it feels like the world is ending a little bit because we know how important it is to get chemo every week and to stay on a regimen. So hearing that, I think I had a breakdown at the time. We're stopping chemo. We're pausing chemo. It was nice. I was like, I get a break. but it was also like I know that I should be getting chemo.

30:35I know that that's the right thing to be doing at this time if I want to keep making like progress. So that was really hard to deal with at the time. But it was also nice because I got to enjoy my summer with my friends and not think about it, you know.

30:46Sydney Towle:That was this summer? That was last summer. Okay. And then what happened in the fall? So I went in for updated CT scans and it showed a nodule on my liver. and we weren't sure at the time if that was scar tissue or if that was a tumor. So then we waited another month and did follow-up scans and it had grown, which meant that it was cancer. And so seeing that it was increasing in size was also kind of a moment of like, I need to kick things into gear. Like clearly this isn't working. And that's when I started to also look at Memorial Sloan Kettering and like alternative treatment. And is that the reason you moved to New York?

31:22That's a major reason. Yeah. I also wanted to be closer to my family and my friends because most of my college friends live in New York and my family is also on the East Coast. So it was a combination of wanting better treatment, but also wanting to be close to the people that knew me the best and know me longest.

31:41Sydney Towle:How important is it to be at a specific hospital? It's very important. I've talked to so many people with different types of cancer and my cancer who have said, oh, this small local hospital I originally went to had never seen clangiocarcinoma. So they had no idea what to look for. People have been misdiagnosed based on that. So getting to a hospital that specializes, especially in the cancer that you have, is so critical to have someone who's used to seeing your cancer, who's used to treating it, who has plenty of background knowledge, I think is critical. You shared your struggle online about remaining positive and then also trying to find the balance of feeling all of the feelings and the sadness and the grief that comes with this.

32:28Sydney Towle:How do you allow yourself to feel the dark days but not get swallowed up by them? Yeah, that's a great question. I think I've obviously had a hard time dealing with that as well because it is a sad thing that's happening. You know, even if I am positive most of the time, it is still a really hard thing to go through. And I think one of the quotes I've heard that's helped me a lot is that emotion is energy and motion. And so if you try to stop it, it's like it'll just get stuff down. And ultimately, it's all still going to come back up sometimes. So allowing myself to kind of picture it as a wave, the sadness is like hitting me as a wave, but I just have to let it go and feel it and process it.

33:08And then it'll move on. I think that's the most helpful thing. Just letting yourself feel whatever it is that you're feeling, like not trying to stuff it down, not trying to be positive all the time. But I try not to do that. I try to post also the sad times because I know that no one's happy all the time. And I think that's what also people relate to is that I'm not happy and positive all the time. I'm also definitely sad and feeling all of the emotions that are going on.

33:33Sydney Towle:Even in your saddest moments, there's a lot of hope in your videos. I honestly don't know where it comes from. There's no other way, I think, for me to deal with this than being hopeful. I just don't see an alternative to being positive because I'm either going to get through it or not. How I get there is up to me. The nausea, the exhaustion, the roller coaster of all of this. Is there something you're saying to yourself when you feel like you're at your wits end? You can't go on? I always have said to myself since the beginning, this too shall pass. every time I'm at like the deepest darkest part I'm like you have been through the ringer you have been through the worst days and you've still gone past it and you've still had so many happy moments after those really dark days sometimes immediately after those dark days you know yeah and so I'm always just reminding myself that even if it feels like you're not going to get through it you have gotten through it endless times so you can do it again it does get harder honestly as time goes on because it's like, how many times do I have to keep picking myself back up and getting over that hurdle?

34:39So as time goes on, it has gotten more difficult to just keep telling myself that this is going to pass. This is going to pass.

34:45Sydney Towle:There's a lot of mental fortitude involved with what you're dealing with. Definitely. I mean, I think for myself and for the people around me too, it's a huge mental, I don't want to say burden, but it is really hard, I think, for everyone to deal with. Definitely for me. Yeah. When you say everyone around you, the main people in your life are your mom and your brother? Yeah. My mom and my brother, and then my best friends that are here and also in LA. It's hard because they don't talk about it as much with me. I think people want to be strong for you. No one wants to show that they're also feeling these heavy feelings too.

35:18So them being strong, I don't see the emotions behind it for most of the people in my life.

35:23Sydney Towle:Is that helpful for you or do you wish that they would show it a little bit? It's helpful for me most of the time because it allows me to pretend that everything's fine when everyone else is also pretending things are fine. But sometimes I think I do wish that I was more emotional with the people that I love and that would probably allow them to be more emotional with me in return too, just so that we could actually acknowledge it and maybe talk through some things that we probably are kind of pushing to the side to put on a brave face. Have you lost any relationships or have you fired any friends in this process?

36:01That's a good question. People always say that when you're going through something like this, you see who really matters and who will show up for you. And that's definitely been the case. I've seen, you know, who reaches out. It is also unexpected to see who reaches out, like people from your past or people that you maybe thought were more acquaintances or you didn't know as well that will show up for you in the biggest ways.

36:26Sydney Towle:I got chills when you said that. Yeah. And even like strangers on the street will come up to me and give me a hug and be like, you're basically my daughter. And I'm like, that's crazy that people that I've never met before have so much love for me. That's hard to process for me. Like I honestly can't process that. It's so crazy. If you could point to one or two examples of the most beautiful and even unexpected ways people have shown up for you. One of the biggest ways is when people that I went to school with or people that I've met kind of briefly will say, can I come to chemo with you? I think that's so sweet that you would want to come and sit in a hospital with me while I'm getting treatment.

37:08Like nobody really wants to be in a hospital. Nobody wants to see someone else getting chemo. It's kind of a sad thing to watch. So when people offer to come with me, I think that's really sweet. And at the same time, I never want people to come with me. I only ever really want my family to because I don't want people to see me that way.

37:26Sydney Towle:Would you feel like you have to perform for them? Yeah, I do feel like with my mom coming, I don't have to put on a brave face. I don't have to be positive. I don't have to be happy. I can just kind of sit there and let myself go through the treatment. But I feel like almost if I was around my friends, if I was around acquaintances, I I do kind of have to be a more happy version of myself in a sense or a more like energetic version of myself to like hold a conversation and things like that. What have you learned about your own resilience? Oh my gosh, so much. I feel like I had no idea how much my body was capable of before this.

38:05I had never been tested in this way. Never had a broken bone, never gotten stung by a bee. and then going through such a huge physical challenge like this and knowing that my body keeps coming back for me it makes me so proud of it and I'm like the human body is amazing to go through so much and to still be here and to be fighting every single day I'm very proud of I think my body as a whole and obviously there is a lot of mental resilience required because as we've talked about you have to show up for yourself every single day like even if you're having an off day, you're still showing up for yourself because you're still pushing through.

38:43You're still waiting to get to the other side.

38:45Sydney Towle:Do you ever surprise yourself? Yeah. I think every time I finish chemo, every time at the end of the week, I'm surprised for myself because I'm like, you did it again. You got through it. And it's so hard, especially to know that it's indefinite. There's not a finish line. And I just made a video yesterday saying it feels like I'm on a treadmill and it feels like the destination that I'm running to just keeps getting further and further away. And it's so hard to deal with that, deal with not having a definite ending and just knowing that I have to keep going back week after week in dealing with this.

39:21It's really tough.

39:22Sydney Towle:What does indefinite mean? Indefinite means that we're crossing our fingers and hoping for a day where I can get surgery again. But it's really weird to also now have a pump in my body and to know that's kind of there forever potentially, to know that my body is maybe forever changed or it is forever changed by a lot of what's happened, but by the pump specifically and just not having that end date in mind that like you'll do X amount of chemo and you'll be good. It's not like that. It's like, we'll see what happens and we'll keep doing chemo until we can't do it anymore.

40:03This is Tony A.O. from The Real Report with Tony A.O. Uncle Murda. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up? Streaming services are going up? Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the will it's go up soon game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life.

40:38Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s and when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at Boost Mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay$25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Hello, hello, this is Malcolm Glaubel from Smart Talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari HP.

41:18Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari. I'm still working on rolling my R's. But what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age. Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team. You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history. And now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions. When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

42:06To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit ibm.com slash Ferrari.

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44:26Sydney Towle:You posted the other day a photo of your stomach. Yeah. And you have a big scar that kind of like lines the center of your stomach. I'll tell you my first reaction. I thought warrior. I thought that's a battle wound and it's a physical manifestation of her fight. When you look at it, what do you feel? Honestly, I feel like I got so used to the scar because I've had it for over a year at this point that I think it's kind of badass. I agree. It shows what I've been through. It shows like all the fight that I've had to go through, you know, but now it's been a huge adjustment to look down at the pump and see this new thing sticking out of my body that is not there for most people.

45:07That has been, I think, more of an adjustment because everyone has scars, but I feel like this is something that's a little more unusual. I was just in Florida on vacation. I'm wearing a bathing suit. And little kids are curious. And they don't have the same ability to hide what they're thinking or feeling. And so I had a lot of little kids staring at my stomach and asking their parents, what is that? What's going on there? And so for me, that's a constant reminder. Oh, there is something unusual going on. But I had a friend reach out to me after being in Florida. And she was like, curiosity is the best thing because who knows if someone's curiosity is going to lead them to finding out that this exists for them too, that this exists for their family member, that something that you've had to go through can help them potentially or someone that they know.

45:58So now I'm like, this is amazing. This is a cool thing that I have and it's helping me and it could help someone else. So that's how I'm trying to reframe it.

46:05Sydney Towle:I like that perspective shift. It's not easy. Yeah, it's not easy. But it's so helpful because the alternative is me being worried about it. And so if I could turn it into a positive, that's like exponentially better. So a lot of what we've talked about is like the physical manifestation of what cancer has done to your body. But there's a lot of grief here. And I can imagine a lot of loneliness. What has been the biggest fight for you in all of this? I think it is probably that feeling of loneliness. I think loneliness is one of the worst emotional feelings that someone can experience. It has gotten a lot better over time because I've met so many young people with cancer who can relate to what I'm going through because of me posting on social media and being vulnerable.

46:51I've been able to meet so many people who have felt the exact same things as me. And that has been so helpful. I think if I had never posted and just gone through this, I would have felt a lot more alone just because none of my other friends are going through this. It's such a hard thing to relate to unless you're going through it yourself. You can maybe grieve with someone. You can try to relate to them, but you can't experience it the same way.

47:17Sydney Towle:I think about who I was at 25. And it's an interesting age because you've had a few years post-college. And so you're watching your friends get first or second jobs and have fights with their boyfriends and feel frustrated and they don't know how to deal with it. Or some people are going on dates and there's like wild nights in Brooklyn, I can imagine, and just normal 25 year old stuff. And I read a piece that you wrote in Cosmo where you talked about how it's so difficult to kind of have this very similar and different experience than them. Do you feel like time has been stolen from you? It's hard to not feel like it has, especially when I'm at chemo and I'm like sleeping off the week.

48:08It feels like time is being wasted, especially when I have so much greater awareness of time now, where it feels like time is more precious now. And then I see my friends going out and having fun. And I do try to go with them sometimes, but I'm normally in bed by midnight, you know, and they're still out. And that's really sad. Like I see them having fun. I see them with their boyfriends and progressing their relationships and people getting engaged. And I'm not even in a relationship. I wouldn't even say I'm dating, honestly. Like I try to, but it's really hard to date while you're actively going through chemo and you have cancer because it's not something that I would just casually bring up to someone that I don't really know that well, you know?

48:52Sydney Towle:Are you wanting to date? I am wanting to date. Yeah. It's not my priority right now. And honestly, I feel like being single the past couple of years and focusing so much on myself because of this has been so immensely helpful, honestly. Like I've learned so much more about myself and who I am to the point where I like myself and I like being alone. So while I do like it, it's like, I also do miss that comfort of having someone. And I see my friends with their boyfriends and I love it. I love it for them, but it also makes me kind of sad because I'm like, well, I'm the fifth wheel. Or like, I wish I had someone else to share these experiences with too, honestly like to find comfort in do you find that when you are dating that people understand what's happening you're saying no way it's honestly hard for me to conceptualize as well because i couldn't imagine if i was on the other end and i had just started dating someone and they told me that they had stage four cancer honestly i don't know how i would react i don't know if it would change my opinion at all or my perspective but i think it has to in some way like you're dealing with someone who has something going on that's very physically and mentally challenging and to know that you're probably not going to be the priority in their life, that you have to support them, I can imagine must be really difficult.

50:17So if someone does step away, if someone hears that I have cancer and is like, I don't want to be involved, I honestly don't blame them because it's a really big thing to take on as anyone that's close to my life knows.

50:29Sydney Towle:Has this experience changed what you're looking for in love? I think it has. I think more than anything, I need to be a hundred percent comfortable with someone. I feel like you kind of can get an initial vibe off someone right away if you feel comfortable with them or not. And I think now if I don't feel a hundred percent comfortable with someone, I would just move on because that's what is most important to me is someone who I can be a hundred percent myself around because there are so many bad days with this too. I want someone who's going to be able to be there on the worst days and not care and not judge me and like just be there for me.

51:05Sydney Towle:Have you been in love before? I think I have been in love before. Yeah. In college, my last relationship, which is weird because thinking about it, I haven't been in a relationship since then throughout this whole time. So it's kind of strange to think about the fact that it's been a while since I've been in love with a romantic partner, but it also has allowed me to find love in so many other ways. Like I feel like I love my friends so much and I love my family and I love life so much. And I feel like I've learned that this experience that love doesn't necessarily need to be in a romantic partner.

51:40It can be for yourself or for your friends or for life itself.

51:44Sydney Towle:In an essay in Cosmo that you wrote, you said, my friends are settling down, wondering when they'll take the next steps with their boyfriends and making their five-year plans. I wonder if I'll be here in five years. Have you had conversations about death? Honestly, not really. I feel like not necessarily that I'm superstitious, but I feel like I don't want to speak about something that may or may not happen. I'd rather just focus on the positives. So I think I maybe once mentioned to my mom that I should write a will just because I wanted there to be some sort of sense of security. But for the most part, no, we don't talk about it at all.

52:19We talk about life. We talk about living and dating and all the fun things that I think 25 year olds normally could talk about.

52:27Sydney Towle:In this series, I get to talk to people from all walks of life. And a lot of the questions that you're facing are questions that I've asked or have heard people ask themselves that are 70, 80, 90. What have you learned about what is important about life? I think the small things have become so small. I think that there's just been a lot of clarity on what's the most important in life. And to me, that's love, that's relationships, your friendships. And so those are the things that I care about. I try not to sweat the small stuff anymore. I try not to be anxious about what's happened in the past.

53:07And I think we talked a little bit about being present. And I think that being present has been one of the biggest lessons for me is enjoying this moment. because none of us know what's going to happen. It's not just people with cancer, but like none of us know what the next day is going to hold. So there's no point in stressing over that. And there's no point stressing over things that have happened in your past because you can't change them. So I think I've learned so much about being present and being in this moment and trying to enjoy it as much as possible.

53:35Sydney Towle:I see your courage online every single day. I know millions of people do, but your mom and your brother have been with you up front through all of this. How have they shown up for you in this time? I was just talking to my mom yesterday on the phone and we were talking about cold capping, which is a very intense process that some chemo patients will go through to save their hair. But she showed up every chemo session. We would have to go get 50 pounds of dry ice. She would have to, every 20 minutes, change these giant ice packs on my head for around six hours, every chemo session. And she came out to California for me, you know, took a break from her job and showed up to be there for me so that she could cold cap and so that she could be there for mental support as well.

54:25And my brother has come to chemo with me as well. And they always are offering to do whatever they can. And it's really hard to know what you can do

54:33Sydney Towle:for someone in this situation, but they're always there for me. And I think that's the biggest thing. Is there something that you believed about life before this journey that you no longer believed to be true? I think before I believed that everything happens for a reason. And I think a lot of people that go through cancer will tell you everything does not happen for a reason. And I think when people say that now, it's like, that's just not true. Things can happen maybe to teach you something, or maybe you learn from it, but that doesn't mean that it was supposed to happen. And I think that cancer is not supposed to happen to anyone.

55:07So I think that's probably one of the biggest things that has changed.

55:10Sydney Towle:I've heard that a lot. There's a lot of sort of moral platitudes that people share when something hard happens. And everybody that I've talked to that has dealt with illness is like, don't let, you know, that's like what actually makes them the most mad. Yeah. I mean, cause I would say that before too, I would be like, oh, this bad thing happened to me. Well, you know what? It was probably for a reason. I don't think that there was a reason for this, but that doesn't mean that I haven't learned things from it. Yeah. So cancer diagnosis in young, seemingly healthy people are on the rise. If you had one takeaway from this experience that you would want young people who receive a diagnosis to know, what would it be?

55:53I think the most important thing that I've learned over the past two years is to seek out second opinions and third opinions and fourth opinions if you can because the way that the first doctor will treat you or give you a treatment plan for is not the same as the next person and I think that's been really critical for me especially with a rare cancer is finding someone who knows it very well is able to see it from all angles and have also multiple perspectives to go into it and know that I'm getting the best treatment possible because I think one of the worst feelings that I've had is looking back and feeling like I regret not being more proactive.

56:32And it's very difficult as a young person to want to be so proactive and want to seek out all these opinions. It takes a lot on top of really challenging diagnosis, but it is, I think, one of the most critical things as well.

56:45Sydney Towle:Thanks for sharing that. Have you met anybody that you feel really connected to? Other cancer patients, especially younger ones, like people my age, it's honestly crazy to meet them and to talk about the experiences because they're so eerily similar. It's honestly a breath of fresh air because it's like, you know what I'm going through. Like, you know, the exact feelings that I'm having, you know, the anxiety of, will my hair fall out? Will I be able to have children one day? Like, you know, every worry that I've had. Yeah. So that's been like, honestly, such an amazing source of connection for me.

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58:41Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari. I'm still working on rolling my R's. But what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari superfans in the digital age. Ferrari fans and superfans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team. You've got Ferrari, which has a long history, design history. And now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions. When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology and digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

59:29To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit ibm.com slash Ferrari.

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1:01:26Sydney Towle:So you mentioned earlier that sharing can be cathartic for you. Part of your story that no one expected was that there would be people that doubted your story. so you caught the attention of a very strange corner of the internet where people gathered in reddit forums to try and prove that you did not have cancer yeah just for the record you do and you did have cancer but how did you become aware of this yeah so i was actually with my brother i had gone home i think for christmas for the holidays and he offhand mentioned oh that reddit page and i thought he was joking because i had only heard of reddit pages in the context of like celebrities.

1:02:04So I was like, what possibly could people be having to say about me? All I do is post, you know, because of me going to chemo and talking about like the struggles that I'm experiencing. So I was kind of in shock when he first said that. And I think he didn't know that it would have such an impact on me at the time. But then I, of course, went and looked at it right away because even though I think all of us would rather not see bad things about ourselves online, And we're all curious. And so I went on pretty much right away and saw that people were saying that I was faking it because I still had hair, because I was still going out and hanging out with my friends, because I was still exercising.

1:02:42And I was in complete shock. And I honestly felt like I had to prove myself. I was like, I have to prove that I have cancer, which sounds so silly that you would ever have to prove that to people online. But when you do post online, I think you are subject to criticism, unfortunately, and a lot more than you would otherwise be if you were just going through it normally.

1:03:04Sydney Towle:So you got a doctor's note and then the New York Times did a piece on you about the whole situation. How did you feel when the piece came out? I honestly felt like a little bit of a weight had been lifted off my shoulders because I felt like I had been thinking about for so long. How do I prove that I'm going through this? I already show that I'm going to chemo every week. I already show myself with like the infusion actively going in. I was like, how can I possibly change people's minds who clearly just don't want their minds to be changed? They have this really strong belief. So once there was the definitive, someone else had seen me go to chemo, had gone with me, had talked to my doctor and had proven that, yes, she does have cancer.

1:03:48That was kind of like a side relief.

1:03:51Sydney Towle:This is one of the strangest stories. it must have felt so bizarre it was so weird to live through on top of also going to chemo yeah because i was already like this is such a mental challenge to go through every day just having cancer but then add another layer on top of having to try to prove that you have cancer or to question that everything you're posting when you're sad and you're posting you crying people are saying that it's fake when you're happy people are saying that it's too positive then it's toxic positivity. It's like, how can I just show up as myself and not be criticized or judged for it?

1:04:27It's so difficult.

1:04:28Sydney Towle:Well, it's really bizarre to feel like you have to perform for the internet when what you're dealing with is so isolating to begin with. Yeah. And I do feel now that the New York Times article has happened. Honestly, like I could be so much more of myself again. Like I'm not questioning everything I post. It's just me. And I'm not like, oh, is someone going to criticize me for this or judge me for this, you know? Good. At the same time, you've also seen like huge beauty come from the internet. I think people have posted so many messages of support, donated money for you and your mom. I see a lot of messages of love.

1:05:03Sydney Towle:What do you think it is about your story that resonates with people so deeply? I think, and we briefly touched on this before, but I think that showing all sides of what I'm going through has been a very relatable experience for people because you do so often on social media, see only the best sides of things and only the positive and only the highlights, but that's not what I'm going through. It's not the highlights. It's everything. It's the good and the bad. And I always say that you can't have the good without the bad and you can have the bad without the good. And so I think that people see that I'm going through something challenging and I am struggling and everyone has had something that they've gone through.

1:05:44Sydney Towle:What do you think somebody like me who's watching your experience on the internet doesn't actually understand? Probably how challenging it is on a daily basis. It's not something that I like can clock in and clock out of. And I feel like people online, sometimes you watch and you see such a small segment of their life and you think that you can understand. But I just don't think unless you go through this yourself, you can possibly understand how physically and mentally challenging and draining it is on a daily basis to think about and to just have to deal with. I think that unless you go through it, it's really hard to understand.

1:06:20Sydney Towle:You seem so wise beyond your years, Sydney. And I would imagine that there's some lessons from this journey that people don't understand or wouldn't know until they got older. how do you feel like you've changed the most in the last few years in so many ways I think that I've always had a lot of empathy for other people but I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned is you never know what someone is going through yeah and I think that I'm a great case in point for that because I'm actively in chemo and still have my hair and don't look maybe like the picture of someone who typically has cancer.

1:06:58And that has allowed me as well to think about what other people are going through that you might not be able to see, whether it be something mentally or something that they're dealing with themselves or their family. Like you never know the kind of day that someone is having. So to lead with compassion and lead with empathy, I think is one of the most important things that I've taken from this experience.

1:07:17Sydney Towle:Yeah. Do you feel pressure to like live every day to its fullest? Yes and no. I kind of feel like I do want to live as much as possible, but I also feel like it changed my focus to kind of enjoy that rest time and enjoy the time where I'm just like sitting with friends watching TV. Like that has kind of become the most important thing is those small moments. So it's not necessarily taking big trips or going skydiving or whatever, but also just those times when you're just sitting with your family or your friends and just enjoying life. I have a list of things that every year I put together that I want to do.

1:07:52Sydney Towle:Do you have a list of things you're wanting to do or is it important to throw those out the window? I think I have thrown them out the window. I think it's important to take it for me day by day. That's also one of the biggest lessons is to not think too far ahead and to just enjoy like right here. And so for me, it's like I can try to plan these trips, but my plans will probably be changed. I had a trip planned to Austria that I canceled because I had my second surgery. So it's really hard to have these big lists or like accomplishments that I want to have because I don't know what's going to happen and things are constantly changing.

1:08:26So I think that being right here is honestly the most important thing for me.

1:08:30Sydney Towle:You've become a voice and an advocate in this space too. You mentioned that you spoke at a conference. Yeah. How has this experience and your diagnosis changed your career and your influencing? I mean, I never envisioned myself to be speaking in front of other people. I always got so nervous giving presentations in class and like I have so much anxiety around public speaking normally, but knowing that like I can help people by speaking about things and like by advocating has been so cool for me. Like I never thought that I would be an advocate. And as far as just like my career and trajectory, I've always had the same career from being diagnosed to now.

1:09:10But I think having something that I'm really passionate about has been so cool as well, because it doesn't feel like a job or anything. It's just something that I show up and I talk to people on the internet and can relate to people and in turn, I'm helping so many people and they're helping me. So it's taken quite an unexpected turn, but in the best way possible.

1:09:32Sydney Towle:I like hearing that. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to ask you something and I hope that it doesn't come off the wrong way. If it does, you can punch me in the face or tell me, say pass. But if today, and hopefully you wouldn't be spending your last day on earth with me, but if today were your last day on earth, what would you want to tell people? What would you want people to know? I've actually thought about this before. Like if If I were to make one more video, what would I say? And it was my last video. I think I would just remind people what I've said to you already is to treat people with kindness.

1:10:06Like that is literally the biggest thing that I could tell anyone, especially dealing with the Reddit stuff. It's like, just treat people with compassion and empathy and treat people the way that you want to be treated. It sounds so cliche and it's such a common saying, but I feel like we never know what someone is going through. And if you could spread like a little bit of kindness, a little bit of positivity goes such a long way for someone else. And it could make their day, their week. That's the thing that I would always tell people.

1:10:32Sydney Towle:That's really beautiful. And I think cliches are in our culture for a reason. That's true. That's true. Okay, I'm going to do some rapid fire. Okay. Something you're avoiding that's on your to-do list. Rescheduling my therapy because I love her, but she also makes me think way too hard sometimes. Yes, I understand that. A core memory you reflect on the most? Probably the day that I found out that I had cancer. I think I'll always just think about picking up that report for the first time and seeing the words cancer or carcinoma. I think that will always be such a strong memory in my mind. If you could choose where your taxes go, where would you allocate them?

1:11:13I think going through what I've gone through, I would say cancer research, especially with cancer research and the NIH being defunded. I've also seen so many other cancer patients not be able to get life-saving treatment because it's way too expensive or their insurance won't cover it. So that's where I'm at.

1:11:32Sydney Towle:An iconic piece of clothing you love to wear. So I already have kind of my Dorothy shoes on right now. So I think I would like to wear her red slippers because I feel like it'd be a little magical. A book that changed your life, something you think everybody should read. I really liked The Midnight Library. I read it before I was diagnosed and it made me have such a different perspective on what ifs. Like I'm a big burnt toast theory person. And so it kind of shows you that maybe the alternatives or like lives that you think would be so amazing actually wouldn't be so amazing for you. Like your life is perfect for you the way it is.

1:12:07Sydney Towle:That's really beautiful. Something that every woman should try once. I think therapy. I think I would say that for any person, not just women, but there's a book, The Body Keeps the Score. And I think women especially have a lot of trauma ingrained that maybe they aren't even consciously knowledgeable of. So I think that going to therapy and also being single, because I think being single is just so important. You learn so much about yourself. I've learned so much about myself over the past couple of years. And I think it's just good practice to go on solo dates and to like know that you're the most important person in your life.

1:12:41And someone else is just adding on to that. They're not making you a whole person because you're whole on your own.

1:12:46Sydney Towle:You really understand that at a much younger age than most people. The smartest decision you've ever made? Believing in myself in so many ways because I never thought I would get into Dartmouth. And I believed in myself and I did it. I never thought I would be a model and I ended up trying it and I did it. I never thought I would get my yoga certification and I did it. So I think just knowing that you can do almost anything that you set your mind to and having confidence, that's been really important for me. Grab the question everything card game, please. Okay. Pick whichever card. It's sort of like tarot, like whichever one you feel connected to.

1:13:21Sydney Towle:Okay. It's weird. People usually pick the card that's meant for them. Really? Yeah. What compliment do you hear the most, which means the most to you, and which one makes you the most uncomfortable? That's actually a really good question. I think the one that makes me most uncomfortable or that I don't know how to react to is when people say you look so healthy. Just because I know it's meant to be a compliment, but it's also like you don't know what's going on beneath the surface. And I think the compliment that means the most to me is probably that I've inspired someone. Just because it's crazy to me that I am inspiring people just by being vulnerable and sharing online.

1:13:59so it always means so much when people like stop me in the street or comment that.

1:14:04Sydney Towle:I love that. Thank you. I feel like you've given millions of people inspiration but also courage to face their lives with more hope and I want to thank you for all that you share and who you are because you show up as you every single day good bad ugly hard all of it and you're a special person Sydney. Thank you. I really appreciate that and thank you for having me and letting me share a little bit more about my story and myself.

1:14:34Sydney Towle:Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

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