You're Probably Taking Criticism All Wrong with Jennifer Morrison

22:50Everybody's in the flip flops all of a sudden. I don't know. Flip flops came out of nowhere recently. I don't know what that's about. I think I just see in a bigger picture way as opposed to, I think as an actor, I'm kind of looking more at like little quirks or ticks or little things that you're like, oh, that could be interesting to use as a character, like a little habit this person has or a way that they move or talk or words that they lean on that I might be able to suggest. And then also, you know, it just makes you pay really close attention in therapy.

23:26Danielle:Because you're like, I need to understand humans. I need to understand the motivation and insecurity of everybody. I heard Melissa McCarthy one time say that the worst part of becoming famous was that she could no longer go to like Home Depot or Walmart and watch people. She had to find like a whole new process, which I thought was so funny. That's probably very true. That makes a lot of sense. I know. So you're 10 years into directing now. And you started as you founded your production company, Apartment 3C, which I loved that you named after the apartment that you shared with your college best friends.

24:00Danielle:I had 619. Okay. So before you became an actress and people knew you as a director and people trusted you, who is the Jennifer that lived in apartment 3C? Oh my gosh. So apartment 3C, Jen, I was very passionate and excited about life. I mean, I, you know, it's like you look back on those days of like the starry eyed, everything is possible. I also felt like I was like infatigable at that age you know it's like you really could stay up all night and I didn't want to miss out on anything you know I wanted to be with my friends just as much as I want to be prepared for the play just as much as I wanted to get good grades and I was you know burning the candle at every end you could possibly burn it and somehow getting away with it we were all very different in a cool way very different backgrounds you know I I was sort of the actress in the group.

24:52And then one of my friends was half Italian, half Irish, like curly hair, just knew everybody was like a social butterfly. Everybody loved her. She was like Felicity. Like I felt like she was like, you know, and then another one of my girlfriends, a hundred percent Greek, very tied into the Greek community. But we went dancing in our weird black pants at many, many Greek clubs and had our big hoops. And like, you know, we'd have our like Greek nights with her. And then the other friend was 100 % Polish and like came from just like a big family. And she had so much responsibility in her family and like, just took care of everybody was such a caretaker, all all of them like so smart and and wonderful, but like just keyed into such different corners of the community of our school too.

25:40And so it was this really interesting melting pot of women that came together in that in that apartment 3C. This feels like a show. Probably. Well, and there were guys that lived in 2C. There were four guys at 2C. We were in 3C. Was anybody dating? I don't think we ever dated, but we all hung out. Like it was like, you know, I would come home and I'd be like alone sometimes and I'd go knock on 2C and then I'd sit with those guys. And like, sometimes I'd come home and they'd all be up there. I would make these like baked ziti. Like I would get this big tin and like just pour, I would make noodles and I would just pour like, you know, pre-made marinara sauce with a bunch of cheese and noodles and bake it and be like, it's baked ziti.

26:16And they were so happy to have food. Hence why I'm not feeding people anymore. But in college, it went great. So, you know, sometimes I'd find them in our kitchen eating my terrible baked CD. But it was a really fun time. Like I felt like we were all finding ourselves. We were all kind of starting to aim ourselves at our dreams. And, you know, it's the first time you're away from your families. And we were all very close to our families. And so I think it was interesting that we all had that in common.

26:43Danielle:Yeah. And then we all sort of also needed that space to figure out who we were outside of that in order to be ourselves and be a part of our families. You said the word dreams. And I love when I hear you talk about how you wanted to become an actress. You said you knew at five years old. Yeah. How did you just felt called? I guess. I mean, I've gone over and over this because people ask me about it, you know, and I just never had a thought in my mind that I wasn't a performer. like it just never occurred to me that I might not be. Does it feel the way you thought it would? Maybe. I mean, I don't know that I like had an idea of what it would feel like as much as it just feels like I'm being myself when I'm being creative.

27:27And so it's, I feel kind of the same now as I felt when I was five years old. You know, I remember doing the first little play. I was just recently talking about this, but playing Feely in the kid's version of The Hobbit, you know, and being so determined to like, do it well and do it right. I was only like five or six or however old you are in kindergarten, you know, and like, I still have that feeling, you know, like, and backstage still smells the same way. And you still have all the same people running around, you know, doing their jobs to make it all work and moving the props. And so it just sort of feels like I don't really know any different.

28:04Like, that's just kind of what life has always felt like. And I guess I just assumed life would always feel that way.

28:11Danielle:I was thinking like you've been famous for a really long time and I get the sense from you that fame was like never part of the equation or goal for you. Do you think that's the Midwesterner in you? I think that it is the Midwest. I mean, when I came in, we started talking about the Midwest pretty quickly of just like how lucky I feel to have grown up there. Like the values and the sense of community that's there is like they really value the idea of working hard and being proud of working hard and wanting to be prepared and wanting to be a part of a group with people. And some of it, I think, is just that there are incredible public schools in a lot of those school districts in that area too.

28:50I mean, it depends on the suburb and it depends on what part of the Midwest you're talking about. But I mean, I went to an incredible public school. I just think about the books we were studying and the group projects that we did and the way that you valued each person because everybody had to bring something different to the table, you weren't going to get a good grade, you know? And so that was just so intrinsic to growing up in that community. And then my parents are educators, you know, my dad had a nationally competitive high school marching band for 30 years. And then my brother went on to do the same thing for a long time.

29:20And like I always say, we're from a marching band family, like our whole life was marching band. And we were all in the marching band. And, um, and there's just something about like, you're so aware when you're in a group like that, that what you bring to the table so deeply impacts every other person around you, you have one person who's out of step, one person who doesn't fit in the formation, one person who misses the note. And it impacts the overall look and vibe and result for the entire team. And you're not talking about 12 people or 60 people, you're talking about 200, 300, 400 people, depending on how big that marching band is.

30:01And so at a very young age, I was existing in an atmosphere of responsibility to the other people who are your like comrades in a circumstance, you know, and that was just life. That's just how it went, you know, and so the process was the joy, you know, it was like the practices, the learning, the overcoming the crazy hard thing, the realizing the impossible drill move was possible. You know, it was like, that's just so in my DNA from how I was raised with my parents, but also, you know, being from the Chicago suburbs and having great teachers that like, that's, that's the joy for me. You know, like a lot of people ask me, like younger actors will ask me like, well, how do you deal with the criticism or how do you deal with people judging you?

30:52And I was like, I mean, I'm not going to say I've never had my feelings hurt. I'm a human being. I certainly have. But like, I'm just another person to any other other person, just like everybody else is just another person. Like, why are we so caught up on that? You know, like, at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of the stuff that I make and like it. You know, if I can lay my head on the pillow at night and be like, I did my best today. I brought everything to the table that I could. I did my best. I'm happy. I don't need to wait for someone else to tell me that it was good, you know?

31:26And so I can't pretend that I was always like in that headspace, but that's where I've been for a long time now. And it's just such a more pleasant way to do life. You know, no one else really cares that much about what I'm doing.

31:41Danielle:Do you feel that way as a young actress? Because sometimes I would interview people who were auditioning like 10, 20 years ago and they would talk about like the audition process. And it was just a little more brutal, it seemed. Yeah. I think, I mean, auditioning never gets less brutal because you rip your heart open and splay it out there. And then, you know, someone's going to tell you something's wrong with what you're doing, you know? And I sort of find it inhumane. Like actors are some of the most sensitive people on the whole planet. They are artists. And we just like, they lay their heart out and we're like, thanks.

32:17Danielle:Bye. Yeah. If we like it. I know. And so often it has nothing to do with talent. I mean, it's like the amount of times I've seen incredibly talented people across the board for something, but you still have to pick one and it comes down to some weird, inexplicable vibe that they happen to have or the way that they fit into the cast or whatever. And it's, it's heartbreaking because you want, you want to hire everybody. I think like when I was a younger actor, I certainly had more insecurities about, is it coming off well, you know, because you can't see yourself, right? So you're always hoping and praying that what, what you're putting out reflects what you're feeling or what you, the work that you're trying to offer.

32:59Right. So I think that I had to get to a place where I could just trust in my own muscles a little bit more and just just be like okay I know to a certain point this is working and then I have to trust that the director is going to tell me if they you know if it needs to be something different yeah but I think and I'm hoping I was thinking about this on set on I was you know just directing on Wednesday with some of the kids on Yellow Jackets I say kids they're all not kids anymore but but they're young actors. They feel like kids compared to how old I feel now. And it was so exciting. It's so exciting to work with this cast.

33:38I love them so much. It's the adult cast, adults and the teen cast, but it's like you go in and you bring a note and there's this like voracious hunger to digest it and do it and like bring it to the screen. And I said, you know, they feel like emotional athletes. Ooh, I like that. And it just, it's so cool when you're in an environment like that, where instead of being like, well, what did I do wrong? Why did you give me this? So you're like, yeah, okay. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. You know, I'm like, do you need me to say it a different way? Or are you like, no, no, no, I got it. I got it.

34:09Let's do it. You know? And then you like watch them, like put it in their body and digest it. And you're like, holy crap. And then just things that like, you know, what you're aiming for when you're giving the note, but it always goes above and beyond what you could hope for with this cast. And the amount of times I turned back to the writer who's on set, I was like, oh my God, you know, and it really, it's exciting if people can sort of look at it more that way, because if someone were playing professional football, you know, they're not going to take a criticism as, oh my God, I'm a bad person.

34:41I'm terrible. They're going to go, oh my God, I can run that a 10th of a second faster. I'll try it. I can take that tackle a different way. I'll try it. I can, you know, it's like, we need a rebrand. This is brilliant. Right. And so it was like you need to share this idea with everybody if you if you take the note like the way an athlete would take a correction it's like what is what the person giving the athlete the correction can't do it they can't do it the coach cannot do it the coach is 20 years too old and they probably never could do it in the first place so they're not saying it from a place of judgment they're saying it from a place of how do i make you your absolute best so if the way that you receive the note is this person wants to help me be my absolute athletic best.

35:21Yes. You know, then it's invigorating. And you're going to know right away if it doesn't work. And that's okay. Like, just as much as actors should definitely have space to fail, the directors have to have space to fail in their note too. You know, like everybody's got to feel like they can try. And sometimes magic happens and sometimes a disaster happens and you just accept whichever way it goes. Then you course correct. I am like feeling hyped up hearing this. I think you really hit on something. It's very cool when it happens. It's very, very cool. I feel like it's really fun to be on a set of yours.

35:56I hope so. I mean, I certainly want that to be the case.

36:06Danielle:This is Danielle Robay from Question Everything. You know me, I've always got a lot going on. I'm moving, I'm working, I'm traveling, I'm juggling and somehow trying to make it all look effortless, right? Well, that means one thing. If I'm wearing it, it has to be comfortable. It has to be breathable and easy. I lean into natural fabrics. That's why I keep reaching for cotton. It's soft and cozy and somehow always feels right. My favorite designers love working with it, so looking polished without sacrificing comfort is pretty much built into the deal. Athleisure, cotton. Loungewear, cotton. And is there anything more versatile than a great cotton t-shirt?

36:41Danielle:The answer is no, there just isn't. Cotton keeps you cool when you're on the go, cozy when you're winding down, and comfortable through everything in between. It makes it easy to feel like the best version of yourself, and confidence is always the best thing you can wear. Plus, it's nice knowing you're choosing a fabric that's naturally microplastic-free. Honestly, you can live in cotton. I practically do. I mean, there's a reason they call it the fabric of our lives. This is Michael Rappaport, and my podcast, the I Am Rapaport Stereo Podcast, is unlike any one you've ever heard. We're a variety show, and if you're looking for strong opinions, funny opinions about sports, entertainment, politics, pop culture, and whatever else catches my attention, then subscribe now.

37:26Danielle:This kid, Jafar Jackson, is as good as Rami Malek, as Freddie Mercury, and it's as good as Timothee Chalamet, as Bob Dylan. And I say that with love and respect for both of those actors. And I don't know how many Oscar nominations they give out. I don't know if it's five, six for best actor. 150 % this kid Jafar Jackson should absolutely positively get nominated for his portrayal as Michael Jackson. Listen to I Am Rappaport on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I Am Rappaport Podcast. Hey guys, Paul Verzi here and I want to talk to you about Paul's best podcast Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio I sit down each week with a special guest and we discuss the absolute best of things Pete Davidson It's that and then there's everything else He would just shout one line and it would murder Marie!

38:24Danielle:Lunch! Bill Burr Let's talk about the best moments that we had on the road I would love a cocktail Dude, Joker gets last road middle seat on a Southwest Airlines flight. Joe, how was your flight? It was great. The guy on Penn State, we were on the field, and the player thought Joe was his former coach. And he hugged him. And he hugged him, and Joe just went with it. And the guy goes, what are you doing here, coach? And Joe just goes, yeah! And you walk in, and it is bananas. I mean, it's a feast for the eyes. And I was like, it's not my thing either, but we're here. When in Rome. Top athletes, chefs, musicians, everybody.

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40:03Danielle:I found this random fact that you used to buy tons of magazines as a way to research characters. Can you explain why that worked for you? I've literally never heard anybody say that. I still do a version of this when I'm like, not with magazines, but with images. I think I'm just a very visual, like my emotional language is very visual. And so I never had a plan when I was looking at all those things, just like I don't have a plan when I go to my visual, like, what what do you call them? Photo albums and things now. I mean, I have a ton of printed photos. I have boxes and boxes and boxes of like tangible photos.

40:37And then I also just have thousands and thousands of digital images. And so when I go to start pitching a project or I start building a visual for something, if I'm directing the pilot, I go through and I don't filter myself. I just click and drag or pull out whatever emotionally jumps out at me, having known the material. and then I look at that pile and there's often patterns that I start to see and so I don't necessarily understand why it's just an instinct thing so with magazines as an actor I was just going through and if anything jumped out sometimes it was a watch or a you know like a headline or a dog or I don't I would just not censor myself and I'd be like tear that out I actually always had a ruler so that it was like a pretty easy tear and I'd like tear that out tear that out and then I'd have this pile.

41:25And I would start to look at the pile and be like, what is this telling me? You know, like, oh, there's like a color palette that's emerging. There's texture that's emerging. Like, oh, maybe this person is really uncomfortable in their clothes. Like everything feels tight or everything feels restricted or, you know, or vice versa, you know? And so it was a way for me to like turn my brain off and just move from my instinct and then look at what my instinct altogether seemed to tell me. And then I would start to move from that place.

41:58Danielle:This is so unique. So do you ever share this with young actors? Like you would look at the photos and how would you come up with the questions you were asking yourself? You were just noticing the themes? Yeah, I would just sort of, I mean, I have, I have most of these, I have like in journals that I saved like over years. So there's a lot of these I can look back on. But yeah, I mean, some of it was just very logistical, you know, I'd be like, okay, I think this is like, I think she always wears jeans. Or I think that this person, you know, carries their body weight super forward. It's like every picture I pulled, they were like, you know, someone was like very forward in the image, you know, and it was really just about looking for patterns, you know, looking for patterns that I wasn't planning on just patterns that I was feeling and that maybe didn't totally understand.

42:44And then I also, I mean, I went to theater school and I studied acting and I studied all the, you know, I did it all. I did the Strasberg and the Meisner and the Stella Adler and Larry Moss's book. I love so much. And I've never subscribed to any one way. You know, I think that I always am pulling little bits and pieces of knowledge from all of those systems, depending on what it feels like is going to serve the person or the character or the environment that I have to be in. And so the combination of just like letting my gut start to build a visual and then noticing those patterns and then marrying that to whatever training I had made it so that I could start to like make a very specific person.

43:23When you're watching young actors coming up,

43:25Danielle:can you tell if somebody has the thing? Like I know everybody can work on it. Yeah. Right. Like I can see it with interviewers. I'm like, in three years, she's going to be, you know? Yeah. Like, can you just see it? I think so. I, yes. I mean, there is sort of an intangible thing where, like, I remember being on the set of Euphoria season one and being like, Sydney's a star, like a huge star and Jacob too. And saying that and everybody being like, I mean, they're all great. I was like, they are all great. And by the way, I mean, I guess I could have said that about any one of them because they've all gone on to have incredible careers, but just like in one take of one scene, I was like, okay, you know what I mean?

44:08Like you just, you just feel there's like this other thing operating that you can't put your finger on. And I've certainly had moments of kind of like calling that with people over the years. But I do also think there's sort of space for everybody differently. Like if you do have that in you to like work that hard and to study and to care and to push, there's only space for however many, you know, Sidney Sweeney's in the world or Margot Robbie's of the world or whatever. But there's a lot of space for great actors that don't necessarily like have that kind of fame, but are respected and working and admired and, you know, like very, very good at what they do.

44:49And I do think that there's more space to like move into that zone than there is to necessarily just have that intangible thing that you don't know why someone is just like an undeniable star. Absolutely.

45:01Danielle:One of the things I noticed about your acting is that you're really good at conveying inner conflict without ever over emoting. So you're, I think you're known for playing women who are strong, but it's not in this like flat, invincible way. They're like usually emotionally complicated. And I also noticed you're often trying these characters, these women are trying to stay soft in a hard world or one that doesn't let them be. That's an interesting observation. What do you think that you understand about women like that? I mean, gosh, I think the only thing I can pretend to say that I understand is just that we're never all one thing.

45:43I don't think any woman is all one thing, no matter what category you want to put yourself into or someone else wants to put you into. And I think it's been a really long time in this business of thinking that people kind of just fit into certain boxes. And I think women are asked to split themselves in so many ways in their lives and are asked to put on so many hats. And all of those hats can be authentic. Like I am a very different person at home when I'm a mom compared to like when I'm running a set compared to when I'm acting on a show. Those are three very different versions of me, but they're all authentic.

46:27and so I think we just haven't had a chance to see women who are allowed to be different in different circumstances and then we are also telling people like well if you're not the same all the time then you don't know who you are and I just think that's bullshit I think that we all rise to the occasions we're asked to rise to and that calls on different parts of ourselves and all those parts of ourselves are little pieces of a whole. And so I do the best I can to try to think about those layers when I'm playing a character, because otherwise, to your point, it does feel flat because it's like, oh, she's just this one thing.

47:06So I think women really can only feel alive if you're finding the layers of just the different splits that we all have in order to be able to meet the needs in our lives.

47:19Danielle:I've actually never heard anybody articulate it like that we are split and even with different friends we're different people but it doesn't mean you're any less authentic with any one friend than the other and I think that there's something really beautiful about that like yeah it's I think that it's sensitive to meet someone where they are and also have them meet you where you are and to know that you guys are offering something unique that no one else is going to be able to offer you know and so I I get very like itchy is how I say it. Like when something makes me uncomfortable, I'm like, it gets, I get very itchy when people try to say like, you are only one thing, you know, or we are all only one thing, or we put all these people in these categories.

48:01And it's like, well, we all have to be a lot of things, you know, like who wants to do their taxes, but you know what, you got to be good at it. You know, you know, who, who wants to be super sick at some point, we all have to go through it, You know, and so it's all these different pieces of ourselves. And you just you kind of just have to meet each moment and and not feel badly that a different part of you shows up for different moments.

48:27Danielle:You've had so many chapters, child model, theater student, TV actress, fantasy icon, director, producer, now mother. What chapter has changed you the most? I would say two have changed me the most equally. I was mentioning when I walked in that I heard your interview with Brooke Taylor about her book, what is it called? Healing the Success Wound. And when I listened to that, I thought, man, I wish that book came out like 15 years ago. So when I was really at the peak of my time on Once Upon a Time, I was so lucky and so happy to have had all of the work I'd had up until that point. I've been on like 350 episodes of television and just been able to truly live an insane dream and have loved every second of that.

49:16But I also could feel this tugging of a true self that just was constantly being pushed away because I was sacrificing to succeed. I was sacrificing to succeed. I was never seeing my friends. I was never seeing my family. I was always missing every event. I was spending every hour of the day being someone else and no hours of the day, even knowing who I was, you know, people would say like, what are you, what's your favorite music? I was like, I can give you the characters playlist. I have no idea what I want to listen to. And so like, I felt like I was starting to dissolve as a person because I was so committed to the things I was doing, but not, I had no space to be myself.

49:57And it's partly what pushed me to start directing at the moment that I started directing, because I started to feel like I was going to have a breakdown if I didn't do something that was mine. Not because I didn't love what I was doing, but because I just didn't have anything that felt like it was mine. I started to realize that I could be myself and be creative while I was directing. I didn't have to give myself up to do the creative thing. So that felt incredibly motivating. And I also at the same time started doing the artist's way and it was such a perfect fit for what I needed in that moment which was like it was forcing me to do things as myself and to assess almost like I had to assess myself the way I'd been assessing characters it gave me like a template to deal with myself and figure out myself the same way I'd been figuring out all these other people for my whole life.

50:45So that sort of breaking point for me and like that pushed me really quickly into directing and also just I knew I had to make changes or I wasn't going to be okay based on how I was feeling was completely life-changing. It's probably why I can say any of the things I've said while I've sat here today is because of the realizations that started to happen from that change. So I would say that the wound of that success, you know, was what started to help me repair and become the person that I am today. And then undeniably and comparably having a child. It is such a wild thing to have happen. I remember we were, we induced because, because of my age, they wanted us to induce early to make sure everything was safe and healthy.

51:30And so we knew was weird to like schedule the birth of a child, but we knew when we were having the baby. So we, we like went to dinner on the way. And I just remember being in the car with my husband and And he was like, isn't it so crazy that like everything's about to change? And I was like, I know. And everyone tells you it's going to be this big life-changing moment. And I believe them, but I still don't know what that feels like. And in 24 hours, we're going to know what that feels like. It's such a crazy thing. And you do sort of just get rewired. Like it's hard to explain. Like I went from one moment that baby was inside my body and I was like, yeah I could probably like hurt someone in self-defense to like that baby was on my chest I was like I will fucking kill sorry I don't know if I can swear you know what I mean like it was just like and I was like whoa all that happened was it came out you know what I mean like you just feel this like primal thing like take over you where you're just like my job now is to keep you alive and keep you safe and to love you in a way that like I had never felt in my life it's such a different feeling of love.

52:34And then suddenly you have this little thing that you do have to keep alive and you love like you've never imagined before and you still need to keep your life going. And so then you have to keep expanding. And so, you know, in order for all of that to keep happening together. And so from that point on, it's just a constant process of, okay, I need to expand in this way now. I need to expand in this way now. I need to expand in this way now. I need to know that I have no control over anything. I mean, being a parent makes you realize how you truly have no control over anything. So kind of a long answer to your question, but I would say both are pretty comparable in terms of how big the change was.

53:15Thank you for your candor. You have really interesting reflections.

53:18Danielle:And so it's just nice for me to hear.

53:26Danielle:This is Danielle Robay from Question Everything.

53:50Danielle:designers love working with it, so looking polished without sacrificing comfort is pretty much built into the deal. Athleisure? Cotton. Loungewear? Cotton. And is there anything more versatile than a great cotton t-shirt? The answer is no, there just isn't. Cotton keeps you cool when you're on the go, cozy when you're winding down, and comfortable through everything in between. It makes it easy to feel like the best version of yourself, and confidence is always the best thing you can wear. Plus, it's nice knowing you're choosing a fabric that's naturally microplastic free. Honestly, you can live in cotton.

54:24Danielle:I practically do. I mean, there's a reason they call it the fabric of our lives. This is Michael Rappaport and my podcast, the I Am Rappaport Stereo Podcast is unlike anyone you've ever heard. We're a variety show. And if you're looking for strong opinions, funny opinions about sports, entertainment, politics, pop culture, and whatever else catches my attention, then subscribe now. This kid Jafar Jackson is as good as Rami Malek, as Freddie Mercury, and it's as good as Timothy Chalamet, as Bob Dylan. And I say that with love and respect for both of those actors. And I don't know how many Oscar nominations they give out.

55:05Danielle:I don't know if it's five, six for best actor. 150 % this kid Jafar Jackson should absolutely positively get nominated for his portrayal as Michael Jackson. Listen to I Am Rapaport on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I Am Rapaport Podcast. Hey guys, Paul Verzi here, and I want to talk to you about Paul's best podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio. I sit down each week with a special guest, and we discuss the absolute best of things. Pete Davidson. It's that, and then there's everything else. He would just shout one line, and it would murder.

55:44Danielle:Marie! lunch. Let's talk about the best moments that we had on the road. I would love a cocktail. Dude, Joe could get last row middle seat on a Southwest Airlines flight. Joe, how was your flight? It was great. The guy on Penn State moving on the field and the player thought Joe was his former coach. And he hugged him and Joe just went with it. And the guy goes, what are you doing here, coach? And Joe just goes, man. And you walk in and it is bananas. I mean, it's a feast for the eyes. And I was like, it's not my thing either, but we're here. When in Rome. Top athletes, chefs, musicians, everybody.

56:21Danielle:Listen to Paul's Best Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What did Black music, food, and culture teach us about who we were becoming? 2016 was sort of that last era of monoculture where we still consumed things in community. From Beyonce and Rihanna. Everybody wanted to be Beyonce. I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna. To soul food, memory, identity, and the stories we carry through Black culture. What does it mean to be Black and eat in America? So we were this group of people who knew how to work the land, who knew how to live with the land.

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57:24Danielle:You said that one of the reasons you love this industry is that you never run out of things to be curious about. I may be biased, but I love that about you. Every project sends you into new research, new people, new books, new ideas. what is acting and directing made you curious about that maybe your real life would have never led you to on its own so many things almost everything I've ever worked on I mean it's like it's so wild because maybe I just don't have that skill to like be curious accidentally yeah about things but as soon as something's brought to me I'm suddenly very curious about all sorts of things I could never have thought of on my own yeah certainly with house all the medical stuff became a huge curiosity.

58:07And I read so many, I mean, I've read so many memoirs for so many reasons with this industry, with the different projects, but, you know, read all these memoirs of like, anesthesiologists and pre med students and med students and doctors that had terrible accidents of things that happened and doctors who saved tons of lives. And so I just went down such a rabbit hole of curiosities about like, how you shoulder that kind of pressure in life, you know, The pressure of running a set is nothing compared to having someone's heart literally in your hands in a heart surgery. I got to revisit those curiosities when I was directing Dr.

58:42Death, and I got to watch a bunch of spinal surgeries. And you're just standing there going, these guys, because it's so natural for them, they're shooting the shit and talking. And I'm like, just pay attention to their neck. You don't have to talk to me. It's fine. It's their neck. Yeah, totally. you know and but to them it's that's that's what they're gifted at you know and so for them it's very natural so I'm also curious about that like who is born that way who's born in a way where cutting into someone's back and dealing with their spine feels like a normal day and they're fine with that and they can like go to bed at night you know so all that stuff was huge coming off of doing five-star weekend you know there was so many different little nuances of things that came up, even the idea of like, I never imagined going to Nantucket.

59:31It wasn't a place I was really aware of. And just like the curiosities of that whole island. I mean, it used to be a whaling island and it used to be that like before electricity, it was one of the most like wild, wild west places to make money killing whales, which is so dark because they needed the blubber to make the oil for the oil lamps for everyone everywhere. And so then that whole industry shifted and the whole island shifted once electricity came around because it was like not as like, you know, so to watch the history of like, or to dive into the history of like a place that had this kind of like dark trade that was fueling it and then becoming this high end vacation place, you know, 200 years later, it's just things like that are just so fascinating, but it all speaks to what ends up on the screen with the project.

1:00:22Right. And it might be very subtle, but you feel all those textures and things. And it just, it's just an opportunity to constantly go down those rabbit holes.

1:00:30Danielle:You mentioned house and I heard that you almost didn't go to that audition. When you think about that, how, I mean, that was a life-changing role. When you think about that, how much of your career has been serendipity and how much has just been sort of your direction. Yeah. Well, none of it's my direction. All of it is just whatever I'm lucky enough to have happen. Yeah. It was a weird one because I was testing for so many other pilots. This was back when they were making a ton of pilots, like we were talking about earlier in this conversation. And so, you know, back in the day, you could audition for like six things in a day and you had 35 pages you had to know and you'd read five scripts the night before and you're changing clothes in the back of your car and you're trying to read the Thomas guide to figure out where you're going because there was no navigation systems.

1:01:21I mean, this is like totally aging me, but it was a very different time. And this was sort of the tail end of that time. And so I already knew I was like getting the, I already had these test offers for other pilots and that my pilot season was going well. And I really wanted to work with Brian Singer, who's directing the pilot. So I was very interested from that standpoint. And the writing was incredible and I loved the character, but I'm like, who's going to hire me to play a 32-year-old immunologist? I was 24 years old and it was like pouring rain and I didn't know if I had time to prepare properly and I didn't want to go in and like do a bad job for Bryan Singer.

1:01:58And I think at first I tried to just move it to another day and then they couldn't. And I remember a friend, I think a friend of mine went with and like ran lines with me in the parking lot because I felt so unprepared because it was like, I just had so little time. Wow. And, yeah, and it was raining and I was like a drowned rat when I went in. I was like so wet. I didn't have my umbrella. It's like, you know, LA when it first starts to rain in February is like such a disaster. Yeah, no one knows how to drive. No. You think that was part of the magic? Maybe. And also, you know, again, it's like the luck you were talking about or the kismet or I can't remember what word you used.

1:02:32I'm sorry. But I had worked with John Ottman on Urban Legends 2, the final cut. And he was Bryan Singer's editor normally. And Bryan had visited that set years before, briefly. And so I had a little bit of a sense of him. And so I didn't feel as intimidated, I guess, as maybe someone might have going into this big director for this thing. And also, I think because I thought I wasn't right for the role, I didn't have as much pressure in my head about trying to do it right. you know, it was kind of like, well, I'm not really right for this anyway. And I remember thinking I'm drenched. I'm walking in.

1:03:13I just need to get to the bathroom. I need to go to the bathroom. I need to like try to dry my hair off. I need to put myself together. I need to figure out if there's mascara all over my face. I need to just look at my sides and collect myself. And I walked in and Brian Singer was sitting in the lobby. I was like, Hey,

1:03:31and I was like so we're not going to get to pull ourselves together here but I you know leaned on having met I said you know we met briefly years ago you would never remember it but like I knew it oh I love John he's the best and I was like it was so great working with him and blah blah blah so we had a little bit of a shorthand from that and he's a real character too so he was you know saying a bunch of crazy stuff and he was like come on in and I was like holy crap I'm really not getting any chance I did not even get a chance to go to the bathroom okay so I go in and he's like, yeah, don't, don't worry if I don't give you notes.

1:04:01I don't give anyone notes. And I was like, all right, big fancy director. If you're not going to give me notes after, why don't you give me notes now? And he was like, and then he did, he started talking about the character and he started. And I, I mean, I said it like playfully where he could have been like, just go ahead and do it. You know what I mean? Like he could have just dismissed it and said, go, but he actually like realized I wasn't intimidated. And I was like, I really want something, you know? And so he gave me notes before I did it, which were super helpful. And I got a sense of what he was looking for.

1:04:34And then I did it. And then he gave me more notes and he gave me more notes. And I was in there for a long time and we just played around and did it a bunch of different ways. And then I left and I still felt terrible, not because it like went terribly, but I was like, I went to the bathroom and I was a drowned rat. There was mascara on my eyelids. Like my hair was everywhere. I realized I had this like bra that like had stuck to my shirt weird and like my bra was showing. And I was like, I'm not getting this job. I look at like a mess. And so I went home. It was like kind of later in the day at this point.

1:05:05And I like just turned off my phone and went to sleep. I was like, I don't want to think about this. This is like how I would compartmentalize at the time. And I woke up to like just a thousand missed texts and messages everywhere trying to find me, you know? And it was like, they're like, they love you. They want to test you. And I was like, wait, what? And then he, I guess Brian that night they had said, he was like, that's her. Like he had just said, as soon as I left the room, he's like, I just want to hire her. They're like, Brian, you have to see everybody else. You can't. He's like, no, that's who I want.

1:05:33And they're like, well, you have to go through today's sessions. And then you need to look at some other like offer only tapes tonight. So they sent him offer only tapes that night. And they also sent my reel with the offer only tapes just so that he had a point of reference of other stuff. When I walked in the room, I had dark hair because I was doing Mr. and Mrs. Smith at the time, the tape that they sent, I had blonde hair. He called them in the morning. He said, all right, you guys were right. There's one other actress I like. There's this blonde girl. I'll test her against Jennifer. You're kidding.

1:06:02And they said, Brian, that is Jennifer. And so, I mean, it was fate. I mean, like it was just for whatever reason I was it. Like that's a hilarious story. Yeah. And I didn't even I didn't know that story. He told that story when we were on a panel and I was like, I didn't know that happened. So yeah. So then they were like, okay, well, we just need to get her in because we're going to lose her to these other test offers. And so then that night I had to go in and test and Gail Berman was running Fox at the time and she gave me the job in the room. So it was my God. It must have been so exciting.

1:06:39It was wild. It was also it was exciting. It was wild. And it was like such a gift from the universe in many ways. as you were pointing out earlier, but also because the previous pilot season, I had tested for 14 pilots and not gotten one. So just statistically, I should have gotten one. And so I had a lot of heartbreak the season before. And so I felt like, you know, when that happened, I was kind of like, okay, thank you for giving me some grace and some gentleness this time around, you know?

1:07:07Danielle:And also like, had you gotten one of those other ones? No, and none of those shows went. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have some rapid fire questions for you. A role that changed you. House. A character of yours that you'd want advice from. Probably Cassidy on This Is Us. A show that you wish you could direct an episode of. That's a really good question. Paradise. You just, you and Sterling have a thing. I watched you guys in an interview. I love him. You get each other. We do. That whole cast though. And I mean, Dan Fogelman, who's the showrunner. He's just, he's so spectacular. I didn't see you with the showrunner, but in that interview, I was like, everyone's close, but you guys were in just a different wavelength.

1:07:47Hopefully, you know, some way in the future, we'll get to work together. Yeah. A director who shaped the way you see. Scorsese, J.J. Abrams, and Gavin O 'Connor. Sorry, that's three, but. It's okay. A comfort rewatch. Well, I did answer this. I have a couple comfort rewatches but I did just answer this specifically for your question set which is usually the graduate but I also could say like when Harry met Sally the before sunrise trilogy I have a few different comforts that I turn to I love when Harry met Sally yeah a lesson from acting that made you a better director I think sort of a variation on what we were talking about it just

1:08:25Danielle:like knowing that actors come with so much in their pocket and that as a director I can gain so much if I can like get in that pocket. How about the opposite? A lesson from directing that made you a better actor? Do whatever anyone asks you to do. Just try it. Just try all of it. Like look in every direction, stand on whatever mark, make everything possible because you have no idea how it's going to come off and you have no idea how it's all going to fit together. A character you weren't ready to say goodbye to. Zoe on how I met your mother. A question that you ask yourself before saying yes? Do I feel at peace?

1:09:00Danielle:What's something every woman should try once? The first thing I thought was sleeping, but that's probably because I'm really tired right now. That could be number one answer of all time for that question. I was like, if I'm going to be honest about my gut reaction, it was like sleeping. We need more of it. We do need more of it. We should try once though. I feel like taking a trip by yourself. I think that like, it's like if you go to a movie alone compared to going to a movie with a friend or a loved one or whatever, you just have a different experience watching that movie. Not necessarily bad, not necessarily better or worse, but just different.

1:09:37And I think that there is something to like the way you move through a new space when it's not at all edited by another person. And so I think every woman should like take a vacation by herself. once. A book that you love, something you think everybody should read. East of Eden is one that I go back to all the time. It's always felt really powerful to me. And then I read, I can't remember what it's called now, but it's like his journals of when he was writing it, when Steinbeck was writing it. And he talks about how he wrote the book because he knew he wasn't always with his sons because he was separated from their mother and that he wanted to try to articulate his understanding of good and evil to them.

1:10:19I did not know that when I fell in love with the book, but like talk about it, like changing your perspective of the book. Because I probably read that six, seven, eight times. I mean, maybe more. And so like, but the latest reread was after reading the journals. And it's really powerful when you realize how personal it is. Beautiful.

1:10:39Danielle:Will you grab the card game and pick whichever question calls to you? Oh boy. Oh boy. Who signed your mic, by the way? You know, you are the first person to notice that. Really? It's very fancy. It is Larry King. Oh! I love that you asked that. He was my mentor. I was like, this has got to be someone really special because this is all white. And that is a real signature. In almost 250 episodes, you are the first person to ask. I'm very honored. I'm so excited. See the noticing. You're amazing. All right. Let's see what's happening here. Oh, dear. Do plants thrive or die in your care? They die.

1:11:16Me too. They die so fast. Yeah. I've even tried talking to them recently. I was like, I feel like there's something wrong with me that I can't keep plants alive. Do I keep this out or do I?

1:11:27Danielle:No, you could throw it back in there. I just want you to know I kill even succulents. So you're not alone. That makes me feel a lot better. Yeah. So I just worried that maybe it said something about my soul and I do love plants. I just don't know how to care for them. Jennifer Morrison, you are just exquisite. it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's so nice to talk to you. I'm so glad this worked out. Thank you.

1:11:56Danielle:Okay. You know what time it is. Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.

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1:13:04Danielle:2016 was sort of that last era of monoculture where we still consume things in community. Everybody wanted to be Beyonce at that point. I don't think we'll ever see another reaction. What does it mean to be black and eat in America? You will never make me feel bad for being a black girl, for being a black American girl ever. From music to food to the conversations shaping black culture right now, Therapy for Black Girls is bringing it all to the mic. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, Here's the Thing, I talk to composer Mark Shaman.

1:13:43Danielle:It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. And director Morgan Neville. Film school teaches you all the wrong things about making documentary. What do you want to say? Documentary is all about your ear. What do you hear? I feel like my job is listening really, really hard. Listen to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emily Oster. I'm an economist and data expert. And I'm Perry Wilson. I'm a medical doctor. And this is our new podcast, Wellness Actually.

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