Beeple and Raoul: Raw and Uncut

48:49And if I go back and look at art of any period, whether it is like I was lucky enough to grow up in the late 90s in London, which was Damien Hirst, Tracy Emin. It was all about blur, its oasis. London was the epicenter of everything. Sure. And that will always have value, Damien Hirst, because it is just a snapshot of that. like warhol is a snapshot of the 60s the counterculture revolution and the commercialization and all of that stuff and that's what i see this now and it really strikes me um it really struck me yet again um when we were at your place at the studio a few weeks ago is when you look around a room and everybody's one degree of separation from anybody who matters anywhere yeah and we're not talking about it's a bunch of artists with their noses up or art galleries no no it's finance people technology people art people um trad art people random people who've just come into this space and you're like they're musicians everything and you're like okay this is special this feels like the really early stage of something that this magic won't be around in five years time yeah 100 and and uh i couldn't agree more it it really like feels like a moment that um it's just so special and and the amount it was a number of people to your point that you could kind of fit your whole head around it you know what i mean and that's right like you could fit your head around and it was a bunch of different things too it was sort of like you know all of these crazy pfps and and sort of all the the generative stuff and all the the other you know x copy and sort of more uh just other types of digital artists um all sort of like converging and And, you know, nobody knows what's going on.

50:49Nobody knows the rules of this. Everybody's trying new things. Everybody's seeing what everybody else is trying and is inspired by them to, oh, okay, I see how they tried that. What if we did that but then sort of, like, mix in this technology or this sort of aesthetic? And, like, things are, you know, becoming very popular very fast and then very not popular very fast. and just this sense of, just a crazy sense of community, you know, around it that, to me, just is very, I don't know, it's this, it's like a weird mix of, like, PvP, fucking zero-sum game, fucking, you know, fuck you, pay me, and also very supportive.

51:46Because it's like, obviously there's money being traded and that's a big piece of it. I'm not like so naive to be like, this is just about beautiful art and fucking Gigi. It's like, okay, no, no, no. There's a lot about, it's kind of a lot about money. It's kind of a lot about money. But then there is really also to me that element of like, you know, something more, I don't know, cultural and something special about it that that does i feel like kind of i don't know make it not just about money hey everyone we're gonna take another quick break and hear a word from our partners and then we'll be right back no i don't i think it's culture has value it always does music you know why we like music particularly why we like vinyl is because it's like it's like an nft of your music it's a it's a thing and you and it's got that moment in time it's like you know i click rock and roll photographs because they're a moment in time and they're signed by the artist and that kind of captures it and stuff like that so you know i think it's great who else do you think are the artists and that will be remembered from this moment in time.

53:13X-Copy seems to be one, because he seemed to be completely... He was like somewhere between Basquiat and Banksy, just doing his own crazy English thing. I think he's... To me, he strikes me as being very much like Basquiat, in a way, that it's this sort of digital, kind of like um very expressive sort of uh art but he also gets the culture of the internet and of crypto and all of it 100 100 and and that's why immediately after coming into the space it was like who is this which i never heard of him before this the um you know sort of coming into the space and was like x copy if he's this thing seems to be coming up quite a lot and Josie Bellini was another one I talked to very early on too.

54:03But yeah, I think definitely, you know, his stuff will work around. I think, you know, Eric with the squiggles obviously has been, you know, a massive sort of like moment and Tyler with the Fidenzas. I think those are things that really, you know, showed people the value of generative art in this new sort of like space. Because obviously generative art is not new, But I think in combining it with the blockchain, you know, it had this multiplier effect that I think people saw. The other thing I think is really interesting is Rafiq has taken that and turned it up to 11. Yeah, 100%. Rafiq, I think the way he's sort of like showing people sort of, you know, I think his work is really kind of showing is very accessible to people and is something where they can see it.

54:57And it almost. There's no cocks in it generally, right? There's very few. There are some. There are some. I think it's something where it, for me, it's like an animated Jackson Pollock. And so it connects, it has enough of the old language of, you know, almost looking like splattered paint that it like people can see that abstraction in it and it connects with something they already know. but it's something obviously very new that it bridges that in a way that is very accessible to people they're like oh okay i see how this digital art can be something that has a connection to or can affect an emotional connection in me you know what i mean versus i think to the average person a lot of my stuff is kind of like whoa what the fuck is that like Like, it's definitely, it's almost like too.

55:59My wife goes past my two peoples that I've collected, and she's like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, look, it's, I don't even bother explaining. I said, look, it doesn't matter. It's almost like too jarringly different from what you've seen in the past that it's like, what the fuck is that? Like, and so I think, yeah, I think, but I think all of these things, you know are sort of like pushing in different directions and pushing um pushing our idea of what art could be what an artist could be um you know in new ways that i think will have sort of have ripple effects you know sort of over time and you and i talked quite a lot about uh recently about the new mediums that are coming as well because the mediums are changing right things are becoming more 3d and yeah you know you are a boomer and don't think the apple glasses are valuable i i just think you're just being short-sighted and that just give it one iteration and you'll be designing 3d one iteration you are out of your fucking mind man one iteration that suddenly the midwest boomer came out and you oh nobody's ever gonna wear these take it off the fucking pull over i'm fucking pissed off no the um that's the thing one iteration like these things aren't 50 smaller from being like mainstream they literally to be mainstream enough where you would wear them and not be literally ridiculed they would need to be I believe 95 % smaller.

57:47I don't even think if they were 10 % of what they were, 10 % would still be like some pretty big fucking glasses. I believe they would literally need 95 % smaller. We'll agree that you're wrong. No, I mean, I haven't got that. I won't even buy the first iteration because I can see the same thing. They're too clunky. I assume it'll get better over time. what i'm really interested in this i'm wondering it definitely will get better in time i think i think that maybe i was not clear about that though is it's more so like i just was hoping because i'm such a fucking dork that they would make glasses that i could wear all the time like that's it i just wanted like like yes this is what it will be eventually but i wanted something right now that i could wear all the time you know what i mean i do what where my head is at with this is because I tend to live a bit in the future on on stuff looking at macro trends as I'm thinking okay I've heard your story you started in the early days of the internet you started using digital art so computers came first you can make digital art you couldn't make them discoverable nobody could see them you have to use a floppy disk so suddenly the internet comes it's a bit clunky but your early days right and there's a few artists from that period not many and I'm seeing a new medium arising in front of us and somebody is going to understand its future importance like you did of the internet and that's what i'm thinking about is like there is something so huge in an ar world where all around us we could have 3d objects that is exciting i 100 percent agree and and i a hundred percent agree that ar will be the next um iteration of sort of like computing and in the way that we sort of went from the desktop computer to kind of the internet the sort of the smartphone the next one i believe will very much be be ai or ar um and i think that will be quite profound and I think the ability to have artistic experiences where everything is is really kind of on the table there I mean you could I think there will be filters I think there will be in the future artists who literally just make filters that change the way you see the world and they will be very popular and like i think some people will literally just walk around the world with filters on that like make everything look a certain way and it'll be like they haven't actually seen fucking what real things look like and who the fuck knows how long because they just we're everything looks like a fucking van go painting to them um and so i think there's there's many things like that and i think and it's not that far away really what's up it's not that far away in time no i don't think it's that far away but it's just not here now you know what i mean like it's not and so to me it's it's definitely something that i can fucking geek out and you know sort of uh you know imagine and imagine all the crazy things and and i did a bunch of concept work for magic leap and so i really thought a lot about when AR is, when we're all seeing the same thing in AR, like, there's so many cool things with that.

1:01:23Like, I mean, just, just tiny interactions with like leaving little objects around the house that your family members could discover. Like I did a bunch of work with that. Just like, you know, pranks you could play on people that you could like, you know, I did this one video where there's like, somebody put a bunch of like poopy diapers in this like fucking living room. and like, you know, their friend, their friend would come home and be like, what the fuck is this? And there's like a bunch of dogs everywhere with it. And like, you know, you could leave your wife flowers, virtual flowers on the counter.

1:01:56So when she came down for breakfast, it's like, oh, wow, here's this flowers. And it's this giant, you know, it's not just like a vase that you could get flowers. It's some crazy fucking flower thing that's like, you know, this massive thing or whatever. And so, you know, you can have little virtual friends that are walking around your, like, fucking, you know, desktop right here and, like, telling you stuff. And, like, you know, there's just a bazillion different, you know, crazy things that will happen from that. And so, to me, it's super, super exciting and something that I think will be, you know, will very much change how we look at this stuff.

1:02:35because two you you will be able to sort of live with with digital art in a way that is still pretty cumbersome i see you have like a screen behind you now but yeah that token frame i think they've gone bust because i can't reconnect the wallets i bought a bunch of nfts recently i can't it's like it's so clunky still to be able to display stuff but this will be like completely trivial to just be like here's this here's this here's this here's this this switches you know and I mean, like, you could just, within, you know, I believe you'll be able to literally just press a button, because it already will be able to see where your walls are, it knows the JPEGs you have, and it's just like, put these JPEGs, arrange them on my walls, it just puts them all on your walls, and it'll just be like, switch, and I'll just be like, switch them to a new fucking set, and it'll just be like, permanent there, you won't have to, like, keep placing them there, it'll be like, whenever you walk into this room, this is what you fucking c and like you could have a 3d sculpture in the like thing that's you know doing all kinds of crazy shit and animated and whatever and that switches out automatically and these things are permanent they're like they're just you see it every time you look over there you're not like going into the app it's just and you'll be wearing glasses like your own just regular glasses and you're just wearing it all day and so like your environment that you just take for granted and these passive things that are there that's just these passive things that are like in your environment all the time and there are all kinds of virtual digital objects yeah i i very much am super super excited for for that to kind of become a reality so generative art showed us that we can use ai to make art right and my the first my first thesis of this ai to agi stuff is we use it to augment ourselves first and then eventually it does a lot of things itself question is is i don't know if you saw there was this paper written randomly on twitter about how an ai model that had never been shown music or introduced music kind of discovered music it was it was freaky and I'm just thinking do these things discover art themselves do robots like art you know do they I think it's gonna be really interesting what it does with creativity it it it it I agree And I think it's really like the AI image generators got so good so fast that it really, to me, redefined my definition of what creativity even is.

1:05:20because it was sort of like I didn't really think they would be able to draw images that well and that creatively from just very simple prompts and the writing is the same way it's sort of like because you're so used to you know we've all become so used to like well whatever you want the computer to do you have to hyper specifically tell it it can't think for itself it can't have any level of like creativity there's there's no concept of creativity it's one zero do this do that do this do that period and now it's sort of like you give it something and it's like oh that's an interesting idea i never thought of and like that's that's new it coming up with something where you're like, oh, that never occurred to me.

1:06:18Because again, before this, it was like, I have to tell you exactly what I want and maybe you'll do it and maybe you won't. But you're certainly not going to surprise me. I mean, what kind of made my head spin is I started talking to my chat GBT4. I don't know if you've used the talk function and it talks back to you in a natural voice with the right pauses. Oh no, I've not used that. So most people chat and it types it out. no no no you're you're missing the the entire gig the entire gig is you press the button you talk to it say hey chat gpt blah blah blah blah you know why is people obsessed with dicks and it will come back and you have this conversation for hours i've literally had two hour conversations that's really interesting rabbit holes it's amazing i usually do it on the like web version that's what the app i assume uh it's on the app on the phone and it's really quick.

1:07:15You choose the kind of voice and it's not like Siri. It's like it pauses in the right thing. It speeds up words. It does stuff. It is crazy how it's just like even with the typing like it just really does not feel like you are talking to a computer. It feels like you are talking to a person in a way that is both very exciting to me and very kind of unsettling that it's like Jesus fucking Christ and like even to the point where you know I'm sure you've experienced where you kind of like you're like no I don't think so and then it'll kind of like rethink or it'll be like yeah yeah you're kind of right it's like what the fuck is like did I just convince the computer of something or like it's like there's just it's so bizarre and it's like i was actually watching um i don't know if you remember the movie ai artificial intelligence yeah yeah yeah kubrick i actually just re-watched it part of it um just like maybe like six months ago and it was you know their basic this was in i think the year 2000 or something like that and it was their vision of what artificial intelligence would be in the future and it was so fucking stupid it would just seem so dumb because it was like hello mommy i am like it was like like it felt like it was from the 50s like it was like nope that's not how it's gonna be like like you're just so robotic and so like no no that's not how ai turned out it's not robotic at all it's gonna be really fucking not like that like i could i just shut it off it was like this is like so dumb this is just like feels so fucking stupid now it's so clearly not the future you know um i don't know if you've been seeing that now they've got some of these large language models that can now fit on a mobile phone chip so yeah yeah and people go oh yeah yeah yeah when you try and explain to people okay i can take that phone and go to a different planet and reboot humanity yeah as a civilization because all of the history of human civilization is on that fucking chip yeah people again people still think of this thing as like a google search that's a bit smarter that talks to you i'm like no no this is all knowledge we've possibly fed it so far sure there's some ancient papyrus manuscripts haven't fed through it yet but they will come and it has everything so if you think of like an nft as nftr as a time capsule of culture these large language models are a time capsule of all of humanity yeah i think that that is what's very like crazy about it because i always and and kind of where i say about um sort of rethinking creativity and rethinking to me what it even means to be like fucking human to be honest and because i was always under the sort of impression that the last two jobs on earth before the machines took all the jobs were going to be artists and musicians programmed no more artists would fund musicians or whatever and programmers and now it's like i don't know if that's the case no me neither pretty good at art and it's pretty good at programming uh okay what else we got here and so there was a friend of mine i just did an interview with a guy called Doror and he was Oleg, Doror Oleg his view is that there is a human element that people pay a premium for and his idea is like if you think of the OnlyFans economy it's like humans seek attention so most of OnlyFans is not actually about the pornography or anything else it's actually to have your name read out or whatever it is to make you feel like you're recognised or seen or heard and obviously ai will do a whole bunch of that stuff and you won't be able to tell the difference but you'll still pay for some sort of human premium because humans are still humans you can't mate you can't yet mate with the machines yeah yeah yeah and i think that to me like now i actually think the last jobs are something that will be much more like empathetic or very like again like you said that something that you can only get from like humans yeah that that sort of like machines can't really kind of like replicate and so to me it's it's just i don't know it's been super i mean this right on the heels of all the nft shit it's just like why i don't know it's moving too fast especially because it's just moving so fast and it's just kind of like you know this whole like oh look at it can't do hands like i thought that was gonna be like that was gonna be a sack and then it was like oh like fucking six months later it's again now we can do hands now yeah there's now photo perfect photo perfect with like three word prompt looking at this you know the last like three versions of mid-journey i've been like okay but how could it be better like it's like oh mid-journey five and it's like that i don't it's already like perfect how could it be better and then you see the side by side it's like fuck it is better jesus christ and then the next the last version of mid-journey six which is like well that can't be better like it's again it was perfect how could it be better And you see, and it's like, fuck, it is actually still better.

1:13:17What the fuck? And so it's just. I mean, I'd hate to be a Hollywood filmmaker because that's coming fast too. It is coming fast. And I think that to me is like, I think, you know, there's such, I think, kind of fear in a lot of the sort of like artist community around this that I think is just not, I get it. And I think it's going to be very disruptive in kind of the short term in that everybody's expectations are going to need to sort of like move up. And this is not new. This has always been the case. Again, you look at sort of 25 years ago, 30 years ago, it was sort of like, does my business need a website?

1:14:10It was just like, I mean, not all businesses need websites. I mean, maybe your business needs a website. And then it was like, no, every business needs a website. I mean, for a while, I was like, does my business even need a logo? And it's like, I don't know, maybe it's just in the fucking, you know, white pages, yellow pages or whatever. It doesn't really need a logo. Who cares? And then it was like, no, it needs a logo. And then it was like, well, does my business need a social media presence? It's like, nah, maybe. I mean, it couldn't. And then it was like, no, definitely needs a social media presence.

1:14:40and now it's like does my video does my company need you know to have any sort of like videos made for it for a long time like video well that's very expensive you're not gonna be able to make videos you probably don't need that now it's like nope you definitely need videos and so these things like it sort of like will continue to level set up like this like now it's sort of like does my company like a feature-length documentary it's like almost no companies have that and it'll be like well that's one week of work like yeah i could have a feature-length documentary like it's like you know what i mean that explains exactly what your company does and its ethos and blah blah blah blah and like that before would have been like well we're not going to spend two million dollars making a feature-length documentary it's like well now that's two thousand dollars but how do we deal with that much abundance of content in in any way shape or form just more of everything because everything gets cheaper faster cheaper faster cheap faster and it's already overwhelming for us you know you know watch a good day on twitter good day on twitter is when something shocking has happened particularly in crypto twitter because that's fun everybody's losing their shit the day finishes with your post which is an encapsulation of the complete shit show that went on and like you are exhausted at the end of the day because there's so much content and stuff and you know there's everything is happening and we're just going to speed that up I don't even know how we cope Would you just turn off the machine and go and step outside or something?

1:16:09I, yeah That I don't know I mean it definitely will Even be Way, way more And I think it will be I mean It's just going to get More and more Personalized And more and more I mean I think about the number of like photos we all take now it's like i i look at when i was like you know i'm 42 and the amount of photos of me from like age zero to like five is like i mean i don't know my parents probably there's probably like a hundred maybe two hundred i don't know like you know not not none but not thousands you know and that's five years of my like thing now you could go a weekend and i take like fucking you know we generate 200 pictures of our fucking kit and fucking the hd video and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and so it's like uh like i don't even know it's it's 6529 just said keep taking the photographs because it's important and let the AI catch up because he will sort it out for you so he can resurface all of that and I that stopped me in my tracks I thought you know that's exactly the right way of putting about it just because we can't sort all this shit now all the stuff that's on my phone the AI will sort that all out yeah and I understand what it is I want to see and when I think that could be it because at the at the end of the day we only have so much bandwidth and time and they're still only gonna be 24 hours in a day and so much shit you could see before you're like uh too much and i think that's where the ai really could sort of like you know really pick out those things that are really going to be like this is the thing you know i mean that's that's basically what these social media feeds are now and this will have your biometrics or whatever it is so it's going to know you're feeling kind of miserable when you show a picture that's going to make you laugh you know there's it it will do some amazing things with that whole it's your history i also think we become we will end up with photographic memory because you know if my apple mac here now as soon as they input a chip it'll see this conversation it'll know for forever everything we talked about yeah it'll see every twitter thing i've ever read everything i've ever read everything i've ever written anybody's ever talked to and i'll have a photographic memory of it forever and that's where i think again the glasses are gonna be crazy because they'll be like looking at everything and under not just looking at it and recording it like stupid like looking at it recording it and logging it and understanding it and so just like you said you're sitting there like you know if i get on remember when i talked to her all blah blah blah boom there's the thing and it's just like oh there's the thing let's scroll on through remember when he said play that clip and it was a bit and it was just like boom there's that fucking clip and it's like it it will yeah i i think that that will be crazy too again when we're all constantly wearing recording devices and recording everything going on in a way that's immediately searchable and indexed without any input on ours it's not like oh i gotta fucking okay we're gonna meditate for this photo blah blah blah it's like nope it understands exactly what's going on it understands what you're doing and like i was thinking about that too actually it was kind of freaky like thinking about it in the context of it understanding what you're understanding the relationships you have around you and what if it's sort of like oh my god i can't believe she said that she's not good for you she's not good happened two weeks ago and she's fucking bringing that up and like that's the fucking voice you hear in your fucking head and it could be trying to start shit and it's like or it could be like okay remember when two weeks ago that thing happened and like you know their dad is going through da da da da so like give them patience blah blah blah and it could start affecting because it is very acutely aware of all of our social like fucking what's going on it's recording everything and understands and hears everything it could really be this sort of like voice that kind of it's kind of just helping us sort of choose how to act and it's like well that is a very scary thought that i never really occurred to me the other thought that uh you came up with when we were chatting that i just thought was brilliant uh and it really made me stop and think it's like you were like whoever the fuck gets comes first with agi they're just gonna win all of the money in the markets oh yeah that actually scared the shit out of me when i thought of that when we were talking the other day too i was like because i'd actually never really thought of that either i was like what if somebody basically comes up with something that just can like win the market and it just suddenly starts amassing like fucking, it figures out because again, there's tiny patterns in the stock market.

1:21:37And when you find those tiny patterns, you can become Sam Bakeman freed and figure out this little fucking arbitrage thing and make yourself some money. But what if you were even better than that and you were able to like start really scooping up the money and to the point where everybody is sort of like well he knows the fucking secret sauce here i'm gonna give him my money and then it becomes this like that's where again the meme thing where it suddenly in the course of three weeks or a weekend somebody suddenly is like okay so that person just over the weekend amassed$2.7 trillion. This is...

1:22:20And then what do you do? Like, do you shut it down? Because somebody has... Well, how do you shut it down? If somebody's winning the stock market... Now, we know there's kind of renaissance technologies and everyone will be thinking this, oh, there's some smart people already doing it. I'm talking like at every time horizon, everything all at once, everywhere. So nobody else can make money. You know, theoretically, something like that is possible and as you say if somebody goes hey i've just broken the secret to all of trading and all of investment i'm just opening this eth wallet send me an eth i'll invest it as you say and who would not give this person your money and then again all of the fucking money is like fucking like gobbles up to one thing and then it's like again you can't just be like okay well we're just gonna pause the stock market because this person's winning everything all the global stock markets and currency we'll stop everything and we'll tell this guy ask him nicely not to do this yeah like so then what the fuck do you even do that's where i truly believe one person or one team could literally fuck everything up and then it's sort of like because again what do you exactly to your point what are you gonna be like please sir let us morons play this fucking dumb dumb game and you don't play because you're gonna take all of our fucking like marbles to keep playing our game and trading marbles back and forth you're taking too many of them i don't even know what you do then and like it's almost i almost feel like like then it was It actually freaked me out when I thought of it because then I was like, wait a second.

1:24:06I said, when I left there, it was stuck in my head the entire time. Me too. And I had just thought of it just as I was talking to you, to be quite honest. And then I was like, and then I was hoping you were going to give me like, no, but this would happen. So that couldn't happen. And it was like, he knows way more about finance than me. And he didn't come up with any reason that couldn't happen. Then I was really freaked out. I was hoping you'd be like, no, so the reason that wouldn't happen is because X, Y, Z. And I was like, oh, he's not really coming up with a rebuttal for this. No, because even if it doesn't get every trade right, if it gets 80 % of trade right and does enough trades, it just takes all the money on earth.

1:24:44Dude, I don't even think it would need to do that because you would, again, the flywheel effects of if it was getting like, if you could just beat the market by like 20 % or 30%, like you don't even need to get anywhere close to 80 of your fucking trades right you need to get like i mean if you're fucking you know how many what do you think even fucking warren buffett or one of these people he's wrong the best traders in the best traders in the world are about some of them are below 50 but they just stop losses plus running their winners the best on average are maybe 60 winners but what does that mean how are you saying like 60 winners like so you do 100 trades in a month 60 of them make money now and 40 lose money because unlike twitter people actually lose money in trading as well you know twitter twitter just suggests that nobody loses money that we've all just made billions generally so you're saying okay so if it was like so 60 60 at what rate yeah that's right if you could do lots of them all the time it it really does depend i i need to think it through properly because there's stuff like time horizon do you want to capture the millisecond stuff or do you just say i know that the dollar is going to go up 50 over the next five years i'm just going to put a bazillion dollars into one try you know there are trades that can do everything you know if you'd have the code for the pandemic it's more like straight to elon musk wealth overnight yeah i think it's more like i'm looking at this is not like overnight but something that could in say um a couple weeks or a couple months suddenly amassed like oh shit okay this is now the like the biggest like uh company in the world and it literally just sprung up three months ago and it's now worth you know 4.5 trillion dollars and it's pretty like and it's it's it's betting right pretty quick and and then it's that because at that point it would be controlling the game a bit more because it's so big and then it's sort of like it can see what it's doing is fucking affecting the markets and it can see the psychology of like the fucking game theory of all this shit okay i'm gonna buy this shit nobody expects me to buy that and then i'm gonna fucking do this and i'm gonna fucking blah blah blah and like then this government's gonna say this and then like it can just basically fucking game it out and it's sort of like what are the humans gonna do if they take the last great game away i mean because they've beaten the machines have beating us at chess beating us and go beating us at pretty much everything and here we've got the stock market the last game in town it's going to take that too that that is true this is this is the ultimate game and if this game goes away i don't know what there is you know what it could be then yeah i don't know it's like it almost like it could be things that we could almost go back to like betting on weird arbitrary shit that like makes no difference or like like sports or something like that you know what i mean where it's sort of like it's kind of like this becomes the like value or like i don't know like it's you need to think how how companies would operate if the stock market and the speculation on them were not part of the equation?

1:28:30I have no idea, obviously. The other thing that I've come to realize is that as businesses use AI to develop product, to iterate on their product, build new models, AI is building AI, is building businesses building AI. I just think companies are going to be like meme coins. They'll be amazing for six months and then they'll be completely worthless. Like I used to use Otter AI for Zoom calls and it would do a transcript. It was pretty clunky but it was an AI that would do a transcript and send us both a note to say here's the summary of the conversation. Zoom have just brought one out. It's perfect.

1:29:09Well, goodbye Otter AI. And it's like, and they're only like a year old yeah i just think there's some weird velocity that's going to happen too that's going to be much more like crypto that we're all used to is things can be amazing for a short attention span and then just never remember them ever again a hundred percent and that's where again i go back to this like meme thing is like again and then you combine the meme of like the the sort of like one of these companies kind of like taking hold and like i don't know like that's where i could see something like crypto actually breaking everything because again i could see something where there's like hyperinflation and bitcoin just released goes to like you know truly a fucking insane escape velocity where everybody in the course of say a week or two weeks is sort of like, okay, fuck, the ship is going down, like, do I fucking jump off this ship because, like, this dollar and all this other shit is becoming rapidly fucking worthless, like, suddenly a cheeseburger just went from being$2 to$250 ,000, or just, and, like, this is rapidly becoming worthless because people truly do not have any fucking like uh any confidence in the dollar and again that is we we all take for granted that there's confidence in these money systems but again if the meme is there's no confidence anymore then in very quickly and that meme could could fucking like spread very quickly where everybody loses confidence where it's just like okay yeah no what were we thinking this is like we literally kept joking about how they were printing money no they're printing money like what are we doing and everybody within the course of just like you know two weeks or something is like this is the new system like i don't know like i could see that happening like a very very rapid switch to this new system which i don't even know what that would do like may or may not be good or like i i have no idea i've always thought that these were parallel systems and this was built specifically because this one was so fucked and that over time people have been migrating now could you get this rapid migration you know that's possible as well so listen final question for you what's next for you or for people um well we've set up a number of horrific uh fucking scenarios here so i don't know yeah because the The AI's taking your job.

1:31:57You're not wearing the Apple glasses. Everybody else is living in 3D world. You're miserable. And somebody else has won all the money. Other than that, what's left? I don't know. I guess it's just drawing a bunch of dicks.

1:32:16We're all just going to be fucking sitting around drawing dicks. I guess I'll still be good at that. I guess somebody will still appreciate that. No, I think to me, you know, sort of just kind of very high level is continuing to sort of like, you know, make art with the everydays and sort of we've got a bunch of these kind of kinetic sculptures similar to Human One that we're working on. And then just really figuring out how to utilize the studio here in this space to bring. It's an amazing studio. You've done an amazing thing. to bring people together and sort of, in my opinion, kind of, I look at this space as kind of something I see in museums in, you know, 10, 20 years or something like that.

1:33:03Something where they have experiential, immersive rooms and show a bunch of different digital content and are places where people gather and can see a wide variety and an actually diverse group of voices and ideas. I'm just laughing. I'm trying to take you seriously, and then I'm remembering going into the bathroom where there's the voiceover of you talking about poo. That's also something the museums will have.

1:33:43everybody walked into that bathroom fell about laughing a there's an uncomfortable picture of again male genitalia but then there's so you you are creating a museum space and it is epic i mean yeah i actually love like all of the your history that that space with all of what makes you and it's amazing it's super cool but there are male genitalia and weird sound bites in the bathrooms that's all i'm saying it may be the future i get it that is it's a weird future and i do think the future that that is one other thing is i do really think the future is going to be bizarre because i think these things are going to continue to technologies are going to continue to combine in ways that we do not expect and it's like oh okay yeah i guess if you combine that with that then yeah i guess you could do that and like i think we're at the very sort of like start of that as things you know kind of move faster and faster now and i think future's gonna be weird as fuck it's gonna be weird well time to be alive that's how i think about i'm like we're so privileged and we're privileged to be around this this little corner of it as well because it feels like we're right the epicenter of stuff and it's it's magic and i just feel blessed that we're all part of this whole thing and what i love is everyone's got a grin on their faces even however shit it is everyone's still got a grin on their faces because they're like yeah we're all in this together it's kind of fun and we're this is a point in time i agree very much agree mike that was a lot of fun and a lot of interesting stuff.

1:35:23Super appreciate it. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much for taking the time to talk here. Super, super. Had a great time and yeah, very much appreciate it. We'll get you back another time. Awesome. So that was hilarious, wide-reaching and fascinating conversation. I just love this culture of the internet being recorded in art. And the way that Mike understands how people change on the internet and become juvenile, and he embraces that to create the kind of shock that it's meant for with that juvenile behavior and the drama of the internet that plays out every day. He's like a central piece.

1:36:13I mentioned it to him, and it's really something. It's like when something dramatic happens in crypto or the world at large, twitter or x is all ablaze it's everywhere people talking posting arguing fighting screaming shouting and memes are popping up and it's it's like this really buzzy town hall or village square and people kind of appears like the village idiot at the end of the day and goes here was your day for you and i see that post and it's always amazing i'm still scarred by some of them the sam bankman freed and the caroline ellison one where he's in prison i won't describe the details or the sam bankman freed um party scene with all of the sam bankman freeds that these things are stuck in my mind but at the time like it was a really tense moment and at the end of the day people's kind of summary of the day pops as a piece of art it's it's genius and i was lucky enough to be in his studio recently and because there was a lot of um very well-known people there um he put this uh every day together and then as soon as he's together he presses the red button on his desk and they airdrop from the ceiling as prints in fact i'm trying to say i think i've got one next to me here in the desk so these were done at people's place and these are the iterations I mean, typical people.

1:37:41So these are the iterations before the final thing came through, which is then printed and put onto X and forms part of the everydays. So it's a magic thing. And I've really got into NFTs over time as I've started to think of it as the peak of this whole crypto thing, the madness, the revolution, everything. I'm starting to think, okay, this collective part, the collecting part of culture and of the moment in time encapsulated in an NFT might well be incredibly valuable. A, it's a nice reminder of what's happening. You can see by NFTs behind me there, or some of them. But it's really something I think is going to be important in time because we are living through the exponential age.

1:38:33And this is the moment in time where it all really kicked off from about 2020 onwards. So I've become much bigger into NFTs. And I think over time, I'll probably end up just in that world as opposed to in the crypto world overall. That's not for now. That's a story for another day when I've got to the point that I want to get to in this whole crypto journey. But I'm really, really interested. And Mike's helped me with that journey as well. at real vision we're obviously minting our season three of the collective so don't forget to mint if you're watching this after the mint's gone through the collective is a nice way of us bringing together the collective approach of what is so great about this space different art different people different countries getting them together getting them to talk to each other share ideas and also can bring in some of that gaming elements that we kind of find fun on the internet the sort of thing that brings us together as people so there's a lot there so don't forget to mint all right see you around next time all of us together are living through the death of an old world and the birth of a new one.

1:39:50This is a fourth turning, but this is not the fourth turning of demographics or politics. This is the birth of the new technological age. This new world has a world of 3D printed rockets, crypto payments in space, discussions on the rights for humanoid robots, machine intelligence that may outperform our own, simulated worlds where autonomous AI agents write code for other autonomous AI agents. It's a world full of opportunity and full of difficulty too. You see, we are living history and it's happening much, much faster than any of us can comprehend. This is Reed's law, Metcalfe's law squared.

1:40:32Humanity has never gone through anything like this. But we have to comprehend and understand what is happening. It is into this world that the exponentialist is born the exponentialist is a new service from me raoul powell and david matten author of new world same humans it's an almanac of the fastest period of change ever witnessed in the human history a period of excitement exhilaration difficulty and terror and the exponentialist really is for humans first and investors second yes the opportunities are enormous all round. To find out more and get our special launch pricing, go to realvision.com forward slash the future.