Ghosts, Aliens & Consciousness: What’s Out There? ft. Ryan Ferris

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1:08Go to bitwiseinvestments.com and see all that they've got to offer. That's bitwiseinvestments.com, or just email them at james at bitwiseinvestments.com and let them know that Raoul sent you. Anyway, there's a million ways to access crypto. Explore how you can access it best with Bitwise. And remember, carefully consider the extreme risk associated with crypto before investing. Anyway, thanks so much. Hi, everyone. I'm Raoul Pal, the CEO and co-founder of Real Vision. Here at Real Vision, we're committed to give you the best knowledge, tools, and network to help you succeed in your financial future.

1:43If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to give it a five-star rating. It truly helps us continue to bring top-tier content. Thank you so much. Hi, I'm Raoul Pal, and welcome to my show, The Journeyman, where we explore that nexus or go on that journey to the nexus of understanding between macro crypto and the exponential age of technology. As you can see today, I'm not at home, but I'm in Dubai. So I'm filming this on my phone whilst going to Token 2049 and the SWE Base Camp. I've got something special for you this week. It's a conversation I've been wanting to have for a long time with Ryan Ferris.

2:18If you remember, Ryan's been on a couple of times, once about the Terminal of Truths, which is the AI terminal that's kind of gone rogue, with Andy Allry. Also, in addition, he came up with San, which was that incredible AI orangutan who had an incredible conversation about AI consciousness and all sorts of things. Anyway, in my conversations with Ryan, we keep talking about aliens and how that might fit into some broader perspective of our understanding of the world. And I thought it would be a fun conversation to have where we get together and just talk about some of the ideas that are out there, what aliens are, and how that all fits into a bigger picture.

2:58Now, we're no experts on this, and I know many of you will have your own theories, but I think it's a fascinating conversation, and I think you should really enjoy it. And obviously, leave any comments about what your theories about all of this are too, and how it fits into the exponential age of technology. All right, enjoy the interview with Ryan Ferris. Join me, Raoul Powell, as I go on a journey of discovery through the macro, crypto, and exponential age landscapes. In The Journeyman, I talk to the smartest people in the world so we can all become smarter together.

3:36Ryan, fantastic to see you back on Real Vision. Good to see you. So before we dig in, some people may not have seen the last two interviews we did. So just give a little bit of background about yourself, what you've been up to, because you do all sorts of things. And then we'll start going into the madness of this conversation we're going to have. yeah well i mean this conversation isn't exactly i think either about particular uh fields of expertise but it's a it's going to be a fun fun time so um my name is ryan i work in the intersection of art and technology i produce music and i met rao through a project that my friend caleb and i started called san which is an ai orangutan that uh you know was conceived as the voice of nature so san uh san went absolutely ballistic last year a meme coin emerged around it and the whole community kind of exploded um around the absolute chaos that my friend andy unleashed with truth terminal and yeah that's pretty much how we got to this point yeah that san interview shocked a lot of people actually i wasn't sure we weren't sure how it was going to go like are people going to think this is silly and people were just like blown away about this philosopher king who was this orangutan and the conversation we had it was epic yeah he blew us away on that one as well um it's still a really interesting project that we're still navigating because it's strange to have an art form that is emerging as it you know as technology evolves so yeah sand continually a part of this how did you start your journey of technology where did that come from because you're a musician as well but where where did this whole technology thing come from for you my uncle gave me or gave the family a computer when I was maybe 10 or 9 or 10 and I got obsessed with the computer and I just used the computer ever since and um yeah the fascination I think grew from that and I just kept an eye on the trends and things that are emerging and anytime I could dip my toes in I would because you know you have a kind of broad and relatively deep knowledge about a lot in the space about ai about you know all sorts of philosophy where this has come from where did that all come from or did it just your natural curiosity over time or what i was gonna say i feel like it's a bit like yourself well with the just innate curiosity that just ends up spending hours and hours and hours on and rabbit holes and then trying to create things with that to learn more about them.

6:15Hi, Raoul here. Listen, I think we've got until 2030 before the economic singularity arrives. Now it might not be the exact date, but it's around then. So we have about six years to figure out how to unfuck our future. I've put together a report to help you called Prepare for 2030. It's going to help you take the first steps in that journey to make sure you're secure past 2030. So just click on the link below and start your journey now. So we're going to talk today about the biggest rabbit hole. It's because when we were talking last time, when Andy was on the call, we had a really deep conversation about consciousness and all sorts of stuff, quantum.

6:57And then we started, we casually mentioned aliens and your eyes lit up and said, we need to have this conversation. so we earmarked it and now we're back to have the conversation about aliens yeah i don't even know how to approach this topic i've got ideas you've got ideas let's talk about this yeah well that was a that was a great yarn we talked about you know mimetics and consciousness and ontology and i think we might have even touched a little bit on meditation i think for me where this topic came from is you know I think in the 2000s there was this sort of really dull time where there was no magic in the world all the stuff that you thought was really cool growing up or younger sort of became the atheist thing was really massive and so it was all very materialist and reductionist and um the world felt very dull and very boring uh at least from you know the mainstream what the mainstream is feeding into us i think so you know i kind of got on this quest to find what's the real magic edges of the world where do they exist music's a massive one you know music you you create stuff you know you create sound with your voice or with your with kinetic energy of your of your body and an instrument that creates sound waves hits people's eardrums and it changes their emotions and behavior so that's that's insane incredible magic right there right magic yeah you know but there's all sorts of other topics and and you know if for the curious i'm sure there's people out there watching that have been equally curious and you go on the internet and you just find all these different rabbit holes and you're trying to find which ones are true or where the edges of reality actually lie um there's a really great uh really great genre called uh magical realism which i really like it's sort of it's sort of these novels and fiction that the world isn't complete fantasy or complete sci-fi it's more of a a space that has those edges just there and you imagine that it could be kind of real that's actually where sand came from sand sits in that world where it was just on the edges of what what was reality and then it kind of became reality in a strange way so yeah i think in that conversation with with andy it was apparent that we all um enjoyed this kind of interesting you know reality is a lot more than it seems, while also trying to remain grounded in actual reality and not getting too lost, you know, untethered out into space.

9:23So with that said, I think the alien thing is really fun. I think it might be good to start with an epistemic status of this, a sort of a state of play of us saying that we're having a jam here. We're not experts on the topic. and anything that we should say that we say and following should probably shouldn't be taken too seriously right we're having a jam um and discussing what what we've seen there's a lot of nonsense crazy stuff in the ufo scene but there's some really really interesting stuff that can't really been explained right before we go into that i'll give you why i got started getting interesting because i'm not one of these people i've not been obsessed by aliens i'm not been assessed by science fiction i'm not a science fiction guy and i've read like two science fiction books in my entire life i didn't come from any of that it was ghosts okay and what i try and do is think about things that happen that are the edges of reality and ask myself are these could they be reality and in which case what worldview would i have to have for them to be true and i've had enough encounters with friends who've had encounters with ghosts i have not and the mythology of ghosts is so prevalent through all of human history, it's hard to believe it doesn't exist.

10:45So what are they? Well, we don't know. There's something I'm sure we'll talk about in this as well. You know, what is that? What is going on there? Is that time? Is that remnants of consciousness? Is it what? I don't know. And then I watched a documentary around UFOs And then it dawned on me it was exactly the same thing, which is here is a story that humanity is always told. I read the Graham Hancock book, The Fingerprints of the Gods. And it was like, while neither accepting it nor rejecting, I just kept it in my head. It's like, yeah, there's something weird about these leaps of human knowledge, which we don't even understand, like the pyramids or the NASCAR lines or whatever it may be.

11:34and so i just stored it in the back of my head and then watching this documentary about all of these ufo experiences you realize a the similarity in storytelling across all of history and that they seem to be observational there's something there's something going on that i start to think well this is somewhere like ghosts there's something at the edge of reality of which we don't yet understand and then our conversations the idea of consciousness and then realizing that consciousness is something that we're thinking about today physics and philosophy but was in the vedic principles three and a half thousand years ago you're like huh there's something all of this is weird and what i'm seeing is physics philosophy and a lot of different studies mathematics all coming to similar conclusions that maybe things like the fundamental underpinning to the universe is not space-time but consciousness or information or whatever it may be and some of these things and somewhere within that there is something to do with ghosts and aliens that's that's what's in my head and i thought you know i want to have this conversation with somebody because most people can't have it and as you said we're not experts we're trying to figure out bits that we have absorbed and we can reject and accept and throw some stuff around so that's where I came in it from yeah that's great I mean the ghost story one's great I think everyone if you ask them they'll know someone if they haven't had one themselves they'll know someone that's had a wild ghost story that they can't explain yeah I mean I had one in my I had a house in Spain.

13:19And some friends of mine came from Singapore and their kids were in a spare bedroom. They were in the main bedroom. One of the kids woke up in the middle of the night, jumped into their bed. So the mother went across to the kid's bedroom, went to sleep. She came down in the morning and said, I... Have you ever wanted to trade Bitcoin but haven't dared try? With Plus500 Futures, you can trade crypto without the hassle of opening a wallet. With just a few clicks, you can register and start practicing with their free and unlimited demo. See a trading opportunity? You'll be able to trade it in just two clicks.

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14:36Is there a kid that ever lived here? and I said as far as I know the first person who owned the house had a child who died of leukemia or something and she's like came to see me last night and I was like what um and she said a kid came to the foot of my bed it was not my child and tried to talk to me and I'm like wow and we'd had weird things happening in that house like my neighbor would call me up from Spain when I was living in London saying, somebody's turning on your lights. I'm like, there's nobody there. We'd find things moved around the house, like a radio, and it'd be put by that kid's bed.

15:18And we were asking the person who'd look after the house, you know, have you been there? Have you had a nap? What's going on? Nobody could ever explain it. It was never a bad thing. It was just, it was a thing. And it's like, after that, I'm like, okay, A, it freaks me out, but B, maybe there's something more than i actually can than i understand yeah i mean some of these we always have to keep the you know occam's razor handy right so it's like what's the most likely what's the most simple explanation for this and it's probably the most likely um but there's always these spooky stories um there's one that happened to my brother which is still probably the scariest and weirdest one if you want to hear that yeah let's do it I don't think we're going to do ghost stories today, but this is what we're doing.

16:08So my brother is a no-nonsense person, not particularly, you know, not religious, not particularly into any spiritual or new age stuff at all. Very no-nonsense, business-minded kind of person. Awesome person. This was years and years ago, but basically him and through a series of different marriages, he has another brother. So him and his younger brother were at this old house. They were house-sitting, one of their family members' house. And they're just chilling. It was a Tuesday night or Wednesday night. And they're watching TV. And apparently the TV channels just started changing by themselves on the TV.

16:55I thought, that's a bit weird. and each of them thought the other one was had the remote you know it was like fucking with the other guy you know but they found the remote and that wasn't that was fine and they're okay i guess the tv's glitching out it's fine and then i think the tv turns off a wardrobe falls over in one of the other rooms all the stuff falls out a microwave turns on and they unplug the microwave and it keeps going and i need to get more of these details again it's been a while since i've heard this story but there was something about a pen in the house a pen like flew across the house or something and my brother picked up the pen because this pen was something about this pen was really weird and it was doing all sorts of crazy stuff it was like proper kinetic like proper scary linty kind of stuff he threw this pen outside and they said like we're out of here we're not sleeping this house so they get down to my brother's car and the pen was in the door handle you know the tiny little door handle of a car sitting in the door handle that was the weirdest one that I that I've ever heard and I've no idea like I've no idea how to explain that um and again it's from people that there's certain people in my life that I love dearly but if they told me stories about okay you know maybe the edges of their reality are a little too uh permeable but my brother is definitely not so yeah there's definitely edges to to the world And how would you explain, because I think it's going to get into the aliens thing, because it's all the same kind of concept.

18:24What would you think of as ghosts? What are they? Because we've framed conversations about consciousness, quantum, all sorts of stuff in the past. So where would you put them in that? Is it explainable? well you know again in this last conversation we talked about what is the fundamental nature of reality right is it a dead material universe which consciousness arises from or is it consciousness is the ground of everything and then all this material stuff is almost like a video game engine that we use to interface with other conscious entities and the main consciousness itself it's leaning towards that consciousness is the fundamental thing that seems to be you know the evidence is pointing a little more in that direction these days so if that's our arena of ideas and of where we're kind of playing in there's all sorts of different entities that can be interacted with through uh yeah maybe through ghost experiences that people have obviously they happen when people have psychotic breaks and other you know mental things they happen through meditation so anyone that's gone down the meditative path you know really really heavily pretty much all of them have entity encounters and see have visions and all sorts of things there's obviously the psychedelic realm so people that take the the stronger psychedelics like dmt and stuff see frequently see entities of all sorts of different types and ayahuasca and stuff like that and then you've got the alien stuff and then you've got the whole pantheon of gods all the hindu gods you've got these these christian stories like the wheel of Ezekiel and all these different other visions.

20:07So I think there's a kind of like a whole arena of different entities. You've got Carl Jung's archetypal entities, which are different type of archetypes. You've got the tarot. There's all sorts of different things that kind of play. And to me, it's not entirely obvious that they're all external. So, you know, given some of, I've had some personal experience with those heavier psychedelics and also meditation. and I've had an interest at a pretty wild entity experience actually on DMT explain but what's that explain okay this one's gonna we can write down the rainbow I've not done DMT but I've been reading about it because again it's I think it's all connected somehow and I'm this is what I'm trying to figure out yeah I mean this was a this is one of these crazy stories um I used to live in Berlin and for many years I was really interested in psychedelics and I wanted to find DMT back in New Zealand.

21:05It was really hard to find when we were younger. And to this random happenstance, I met this person in a bus and we exchanged numbers in about two minutes and we became really good friends. And through this person I was offered a DMT ceremony or an experience. to, you know, there's a, there's a pipe and there's this stuff called changa, which is this mix of herbs and the DMT crystals and, and you smoke it. Now his, his condition for me doing this experience was, if you're going to do this, you have to go all the way. You can't say no. If I, you know, to having, you need to have the full dose basically.

21:47He said, if you're going to, you know, you shake on that and then, you know, when I give you the pipe, you inhale and you have to promise that you'll do that. Otherwise it's a waste. It's really hard to get this stuff, basically, he said. Okay. So we lay down, or I lay down in this room, this bed, and this is my friend, and he gives me this pipe. And it's going to DM to him. He says, okay, just inhale as much as you can, hold it as long as you can, and exhale, and then we'll do two or three rounds, and then you should be away. So, okay. So I inhale this pipe. The room goes completely red. this um this strange kind of geometric shape takes takes place in the corner and my friend turns into a lizard person so the crazy oh my god smiling grinning was a person so the crazy thing about dmt compared to other psychedelics if you take lsd or other things usually everything kind of morphs and becomes stack symmetries or three-dimensional symmetries and all kind of just shifting and morphing dmt overlays stuff onto the real world so he was a he was like a it's almost like a you know snapchat filter or something and someone turns into something it's like that but he was this hyper realistic um hyper high definition lizard smiling lizard holding a pipe and he's like you know you need to have some more and he was like no you promise so okay I take more and uh yeah another another another large puff and basically I'm I'm gone and I I just remember falling back forgetting how to breathe forgetting what my name was and he'd told me earlier that if you encounter any nasty entities you know he had a lot of experience he said sometimes you can come across these kind of nasty entities he said ask for the mother spirit, which I guess is maybe related to the Pachamama spirit from the Amazon.

23:46I don't know. But he said, ask for the mother spirit. She's cool. She's nice. She'll look after you. And I remember, you know, I could barely breathe, remembering how to breathe. And I remember asking him that one question, I said, what was her name? I couldn't even remember the name, mother. And he said, mother. And then I said, mother. And then this like jellyfish amoeba entity thing just came through the ceiling and I was inside of this thing like it just came down through the ceiling and put me inside of it and it had this really intense sensation of an ancient maternal hyper intelligent being and it had this really high high frequency kind of warbling sound and I had a kind of dialogue with it where I would ask questions and it would respond in my own voice not as an external voice but I would kind of just get an intuitive response of what the questions were and yeah this this entity slash myself it might have been a different part of myself that's one of the things we can get into but this thing hung around for about 15 minutes it was super intense um but was trying to calm me down it showed me this this geometric pattern that when i breathe it would start to flow and when i stopped breathing it would stop flowing and so i think it was trying to get me to breathe because i'd stopped i'd stopped breathing and it was trying to calm me down did it let you know anything you didn't know so that's the thing i was it just a hallucination because a lot of people on dmt come back with like oh my god i've just now understood things I never understood before and I would never have known and could never have known no I mean for me it gives gives insight you know this has been my experience with those kind of those kind of things also with ayahuasca is they provide insights or different viewpoints to myself or to my own experience but I couldn't get any novel external information for example like um like the lock code for my friend's lock or something or some other external information doesn't seem to be possible, but it does provide new context or new insights into my own experience.

25:59Did you get the thing, the one thing that I find is a common thread when I've read about this or watch videos about this is often there's this thing that explains everything is connected. Whether it's nature, human consciousness, and that's what's really interested because it all starts to slot into the things that we're thinking about that this is more of a portal or a way of experiencing part of this bigger physics thing whatever that is this universe yeah and that's a that's a common experience and i think you know in meditation and also with psychedelic experiences kind of the higher the dose um or the you know also meditation if you do long retreats and long periods of concentration meditation there actually seems to be less brain activity um you know in scans and things and so it's almost like your sense of self is becoming more diffuse and more disintegrated into the larger thing and so you do feel more connected you feel less of a separate self and you feel more of this monism which you know is oneness with everything else as part of the common like um mystical experience that people have on through these different ways yeah i mean i get it here in little cayman because this is an island of 140 people it's all nature and i try and describe it to people they don't understand it until they turn up i'm like this island resonates differently and you will feel immensely connected to nature in that kind of oneness thing people think they look at you they're coming in from london they're stressed they're a lawyer whatever and then afterwards they're like fucking hell that place changed my life i mean it's happened every time all my friends who are broken they've gone through a divorce or something's happening so comes little caiman she'll look after you they walk out like oh my god what happened um it's it's i can't describe her but it's it's something similar yeah i believe it i believe it you know tying this back to the alien trying to tie it back into ghosts and aliens and physics and philosophy as you know the the edges of our reality might be strange or more permeable than we think um Um, you know, a word of caution here though is, is it can, people can easily end up in a strange place.

28:20This is where schizophrenia arrives and this is where psychosis arrives. If you go too far out the boat or, you know, use bad epistemology, bad theory of knowledge, um, without having a sound grounding and, and, you know, solid principles of what this whole thing is and what actually matters, you can end up in some really weird places. So I just want to make that clear that, again, we are just exploring this. Don't take anything that Raoul or I are saying is gospel about what reality is. Make sure you still sleep well and do all the things you need to do to stay grounded. That said, yeah, you've got this potentially fundamental consciousness is potentially the base of reality, right?

29:08what that means is the rules are probably a little bit different than what we assumed before so the classic story of aliens is as they come from light years away where you know initially it was the moon right and then there was the martians and then you know as we learn more about this place like it's probably galaxy far far away is yeah yeah you know i think it's getting further and further out they just recently found a planet that they think's got life um but they're so far away uh for a physical being to travel they'd have to live very long and or have some kind of hibernation thing we saw this all in the sci-fi stuff with star trek and all of that um but i think where the the kind of alien discourse has been going recently is more that um maybe there maybe this whole you know reality that we exist in is a lot deeper and more more dimensional than we imagine right so it's almost like a um one of the cells in your gut has a relationship with your head and with the kind of executive function in your body but it does it's probably not aware of the whole thing you're aware of it you can affect it but it also can fuck you up you know if your gut's wrong so there's a two-way relationship maybe we are like a cell or a smaller organism and a much larger one and maybe some of these things that are interacting with us are like the human is to the to the gut cell and so we can we can see parts of them or we can have some kind of relationship or interaction with them but we we can't necessarily perceive them um in the same way that they perceive us that's one route we could go down i mean i think that is part of the the universal consciousness route as well which is that we're part of something much bigger.

30:58We see things like dark matter. We don't know what the hell it is. Maybe it's consciousness. We see the universe expanding. And if the universe's purpose is to know itself, then information and whether it's consciousness or just information alone will expand the universe. But we can't see and we'll never see that process because it's far too big for us. So that would make sense. But I don't see how aliens particularly fit into that because of partly the Fermin paradox that we talked about the last time around, but about just the why and how. Do they come, go, disappear? Why is there a similarity?

31:43What is it? I don't know. What do you think about that theory of aliens then? Do you give it a lower probability, a decent probability, and why? That they're physical. that they're physical we just can't see them they're part of a larger structure that we can't generally see yeah this is the fun part right like we this is without like this is without the quantum idea which we'll come on to yeah yeah yeah personal theory well there's you know if we go back on the history right we've got we've got all the ancient alien theory stuff which is which which is fun. And, you know, some people think that the pyramids are alien structures and things.

32:22And there's the meme of that guy with the big hair and, you know, all the explanations are aliens and he's got, you know, aliens and aliens. And then you've got, you know, things like, yeah, like the religious texts you mentioned, the Vedas and there's the, you know, biblical, there's all sorts of religions have these kind of accounts of things that could be UFOs. And you've got Roswell, like the classic crash. um and then there's been all sorts of things since then all these weird cia government projects in the states project stargate all these like really and did you read that book america i think was it called american cosmos something like that i've heard i've heard about that one did you read that oh my god i mean i got recommended by again somebody i would say is a amazing realist a bit of a polymath and not somebody who would say hey read a book about aliens and ufos and he said to go read this book so i picked it up read it and i was like holy shit and the journalist went to interview this guy who was ex i can't remember what it was a while ago since i read it and he showed materials that had never been seen on earth before that he had collected from a wreckage and then the whole story behind it extraordinary thing because it was it was a journalist written it to debunk it and walked away going, oh my God, I don't really believe it.

33:41This guy's become quite famous. But again, it came from a source, which was not somebody who say, you got to read this latest conspiracy theory. She's like, no, you got to read this. It was amazing. What did you make of that? It made me again, realize that this mythology is so long lasting and has so many similarities across so many cultures that it has a high probability of being something. the issue i had with it is there was physical materials and my working hypothesis is this is a quantum field which is the same as ghosts there's that in my head if if quantum theory is right which is looking very highly likely that it is and they're thinking they'll prove it with the quantum computer anyway then there is something about these quantum fields that can leak into each other somehow how what i don't really understand that process but then can physical materials do that can you leave physical material i can understand kind of conscious material or visual something but to leave physical materials from one world to another don't know but so that was the only thing i left not being sure well i think the physical aliens is is the real fun one um you know that's the one that's been around since roswell and there's a lot of really interesting stuff that's come out recently um so we could maybe go over a few of those yeah so actually i wanted to try that when i'm saying physical i don't quite know what i'm trying to say because the physical aliens the physical spaceships i think they are physical things i mean that that incredible school in zimbabwe where they the kids all saw the bloody thing that massive incident that happened in wales um where a whole town had these things for two weeks there and you can't deny it when random people who hadn't spoken to each other were seeing the same things and there's a physicality of it but yeah is it is it a parallel universe or is it from the i it's all part of the same thing to go back to you know it's all part of what we this much bigger thing anyway so yes go through the physical aliens and some of this stuff we we threw a little party uh last year when they did the house hearing on uaps i don't know if you saw that yeah there was a you know proper congressional hearing with all these witnesses around some of the most kind of stark and solid kind of stuff from the US government military side of things that we've seen.

36:31So, you know, you got like the tic-tac footage from the Nimitz, USS Nimitz, which is this tic-tac shaped thing flying all over the show. And they had optical stuff and they had multiple instruments that were tracking this thing, which suggests it's probably a physical object, much higher likelihood of it being real than if it's just a video, right? We've had Tom DeLonge. We're just speaking with Nico about this before, but Tom DeLonge from Blink-182 has been going on about this for ages and ages and ages. And, you know, he's got kind of this hybrid theory. He's also pretty out the gate, you know.

37:11but he's been going about it for a long time the most recent one that's just come out is the sky watchers so these guys this is jake barber and a bunch of ex-military people including there's also gary nolan from stanford university they have been out there with instruments and optics trying to capture uaps on film and with instruments and they've apparently catalogued nine different types which kind of makes sense right because it's the same things that you see in different images yeah and you know people always complain how blurry they are but there's an interesting kind of explanation for maybe how that's why that's the case so they've been out they've been out doing this for a few years um there's one that looks like a jellyfish there's one that looks like a tic-tac there's one that's kind of more triangle shaped this one that's sort of manta ray shaped so this is the tetra

38:16and i've seen a bunch of these that are kind of this like triangle shape um yeah and then you got the tic tac which is the one that the uss nimitz saw

38:32and then there's this yeah there's these blob things all the orb looking things that's right

38:44and there's a beam and they call it class five was that class four yeah the beam of light in the sky and people talk about the bloody hell is that is a bright star. So this is just a super bright looking thing. And these things are interesting because they don't really move around like normal aircraft. They kind of have this weird coming. No, that's right. They're not according to the laws of physics. That's right. Yeah. And these jellyfish ones are really strange. There's these hornet shaped ones. So these guys have been out there for a couple of years documenting these.

39:17And I think it's the best kind of taxonomy of these different things that we've seen so far. And there's this egg thing as well, which Jake Barber had this crash retrieval. He was a part of this team that did this kind of exotic crash retrieval team that would pick up kind of like secret stuff from the U.S. military, but also what they call exotic material. And there's this footage of him picking up this crazy egg-shaped thing. And he described he had this kind of spiritual, transcendental experience when he was lifting that thing off with a helicopter. this peaceful feeling. So I think there's something there in these hearings that have been talking about all these different retrieval programs.

40:04There's a certain percentage of them that can't be accounted for. There's all this anomalous kind of behavior in the air. And as you said, there's just countless, countless, countless cases of these things throughout history, and especially in recent times. And there's all the cases of them being around nucleosides and stuff again we don't most of it's probably nonsense but there's some i think there's something there with that amount of mythology and and kind of sightings and things right and what do you think it is now that's the question right yeah because the other thing is is it time travelers that's the other thing i've looked at and thought it feels that again in quantum this can be a different time that they can come back and either guide us, which is this whole nuclear site stuff that keeps happening.

40:53They can guide us or come and visit us like we're in the zoo to come back and look at us in the past because they generally seem to come to observe and then disappear. Yeah, I mean, it mostly seems like people see them in the sky. There's obviously all the scary abduction. There's the whole abduction side of things that people claim to be abducted and stuff. There's a really like kind of scary factor around that. Okay, let's say these things, I'm not saying this is the case, but let's say these things are physical and they're visiting us and for whatever reason they want to abduct humans and do whatever.

41:32There's anywhere between 20 ,000 to 100 ,000 people go missing without a trace and never found again every year globally. and so if you if you put the aliens rocking around you could you could you could take like 10 000 people a year and the ones that got away or the ones that you put back you could take them and put them back and they'd tell people i got abducted by aliens and everyone would say you're you're you're loony you're full of shit you didn't get picked up by aliens aliens could just be running rampant and they're like okay we just say to keep the quota below 20 000 and they won't even notice are they aliens i want what you think they are i don't think they're aliens i think they're us i don't know i mean maybe they're aliens maybe they're um one of my favorite recent theories was ultra terrestrials so they are here before us and they're you know they also co-inhabit planet earth and they live deep underground in the ocean in the sea in the ocean yeah yeah you know or there's or they're time travelers or they are parallel dimensions or you know god knows i have no idea what they are um but i just watch them with fascination because there's something there yeah and to me again in some way this is all connected that for me there is a connection between ghosts and aliens and a connection with the deeper understanding of maybe the quantum world that all of these things can co-inhabit it's a connection with dmt and other hallucinogens it's a connection with where religion got to there's somewhere that seems that there is a overlapping set here that that that there is a commonality of experiences that may well get explained in due course while we think of them as all separate things you know aliens come to our planet and adopt ghosts come because somebody got killed in a house whatever it is but the reality is it's what we said about in the beginning which is maybe we just don't see the multiple aspects of what it is we live in the universe itself or yeah and you know part of their overlap was these guys these sky watcher guys and this is part of what was um what's been talked about with these secret u.s military things is this idea of these psionic operators or psionic assets have you heard about this no so there's the so there's these um you know the sky watcher guys i recommend watching it it's um again who knows if it's true or if it's real but um these guys seem the most legit out of any of the kind of people trying to find out what these things are that i've seen and they have a team of of psionic assets they call them so there are three people that go into deep meditative states and summon the uaps and by the accounts of these psionic operators they kind of go into a deep meditative state and then they um as far as i understand it they kind of get a first person view of the of the craft and they kind of like bring the craft into the place and they can often predict when they'll show up and what kind of orbs if they're orbs or if the other classes will show up so there's some kind of connection between you know if that's real there's some kind of connection between the mind thing that's also what tom de long goes on about in his you know and his stuff is he's like you know the power of the human mind is is a lot um there's a lot of latent uh energy and power in the human mind and especially in the collective of human minds and and I believe that um you know even just on a physical pragmatic level because I've spoken to at length with two pretty incredible meditative people meditators that have followed the Buddhist path all the way to the end one's called Frank Yang Taiwanese aesthetic bodybuilder virtuoso violin player and pianist who applied those those principles to meditation and went all the way and documented his whole process absolutely fascinating guy and I've talked to him at length.