Raoul Pal EXPOSES Crypto Cycles Secrets ft. Mario Nawfal

28:22I've been very active in BitClout when it was a thing until it died down. So I'm also a big believer in social tokens. Can you tell me more about the long-term value of these meme coins and how they'll be as an asset class by the end of the cycle? Okay, so we have got the elephant in the room, which is AI. we've got ai and the robots coming for our jobs i'm already developing a raoul bot which is a video me too yeah i was in la like the the two cameras of your face and stuff yeah and then you know on the llm you can just talk to me so that goes from one to many which is the model that you and i knew to one to one they can speak to mario speak to raoul directly and that's just the sun disruption of this is total and absolute, right?

29:10Because human knowledge, which was scarce, becomes infinite. And everything digitized goes to zero in value, everything. And that's what blockchain technology did. Block technology creates a digital scarcity. Because if not, you can create endless pieces of digital art, let's say. But now you can't because you've got scarcity. But AI is going to create infinite knowledge. So infinite knowledge means zero value for a law and accounts and whatever over time. And then when you can create robots, you can infinitely create as many robots as possible. So, okay, what does that role lead to humans? Forget about the universal basic income, blah, blah, blah.

29:45I kind of believe in Yatsui's model, which is that we can earn universal basic equity from participating in social communities or communities and earning tokens, which is the kind of the big idea here. If you take the fact that humans don't have to go to a job for a living We still want a sense of purpose. We want a sense of optimism We want to be able to make money and we want to have a purpose. We're social creatures by nature So once you see this experimentation, what we're seeing is a bunch of very online people who are wildly disconnected in The way I grew up, which is we would go to the pub and chat None of these guys do.

30:30Most of them don't drink, they don't socialise. They socialise on video, Twitch streams, or on X, or on Discord. So you need to connect people and their ideas and make you feel part of something. Now, we've seen this model before. It's called sports teams. Sports teams give you a sense of community. If you grow up in Liverpool, you'll probably support Liverpool or Everton Football Club and it gives you a sense of community and commonality with other people around you. That's what humans do all the time. We also do it with pop stuff. We do it with music. It's a cultural phenomena and music is a really broken industry where the artist gets like 20 % of the revenues that are generated by them.

31:17So what we've got now is the ability to gigantically scale communities. It's something you've been trying to do, something I've done. It's Taylor Swift's economy is so big. It moved the Australian economy, the Singapore economy, the US economy, and the UK economy that all the central banks mentioned it, right? But how much is she worth? A billion dollars. How much is the Taylor Swift economy worth? Multiple hundreds of billions of dollars. You can't release that, but tokenization can. And then we can be incentivized to be Taylor Swift fans and generate merch and generate whatever, and you create this token economy.

31:51That's what this is all doing. It's the future purpose. We've seen it also in gaming. So kids hang out online in games. When I used to go to the shopping mall with friends and go and meet them, kids now hang out in Minecraft. And again, once you start adding ability to monetize this, you don't need to work. So can you link that to the AI argument again, just so I can understand? We don't have any work to do. We're going to be at home. I got it. Even if we're given universal basic income, how are we going to find our purpose as humans, right? We're not hunter-gatherers anymore. We're not farmers anymore.

32:31We're not doctors and lawyers anymore. What the hell are we? That's a fascinating change. And so it becomes, yes. So it becomes community. That's why religion has been so persistent. Because it's a community cultural mimetic that ties people together. this is what this is all about i'm interviewing the founder of terminal truth tomorrow i think andy yeah andy andy and the other guy involved with him as well i've intervened both of them together to talk about oh nice who's the other guy ryan ryan okay who's ryan ryan works with andy he's got another um project called mycelium and there's a token called forest that's built around that there's actually a charity that's been reforesting um but again it's it's it's super cool and way out there way out there okay um brother terminal truth is just i followed that from day one really from day how'd you find it randomly because i follow a lot of ai people because i'm super into the rabbit hole i saw it spinning up loved it saw the mark andres and the thing thought okay this is hilarious i want to follow this and i was on holiday i was on holiday wherever it was i was on a business trip when they launched the token i would have bought it because I've been following that from day one never got around to it and then bloody And when you buy something you're you're always a long-term holder.

33:45So you would have been yeah Yeah, that's it. It went from nothing to a billion one of the worst feelings is when you miss something It's worse than investing losing money. Yeah, but you've got to tame that beast the FOMO beast is the most dangerous beast of all Because that's when you do all the stupid shit because your friends making money You become desperate to make the hundred X and then you start listening to your friends trade recommendations and you get into them Your friend recommends one good trade and suddenly, oh shit, he must be on for something. He must be the genius. Exactly. And you invest in everything else.

34:13They're all losses and you forget that this is the 1 % that actually works. I know. So FOMO is really one of the beasts you need to tame. Okay. So going back to meme coins, you've talked about the long-term value that meme coins will bring to society. Yeah. And kind of playing a role in bringing purpose. It's a society because it has a monetary aspect, right? It monetizes as a new cause for humans. or not a new cause, but a cause that's going to be a lot more important now, considering that we don't need to be productive. And we're tokenizing culture as well, which is another huge thing for us.

34:46Yeah. Okay. But does that apply to current memes that we're seeing, you know, the frog, hippo, monkey, dinosaur communities? No, this is NFTs all over again. Okay. So this is more of the whole pump and dump model, which is fine. It's part of crypto, it's part of bringing adoption. That's right. It's part of experimentation. It's part of the boom bust out of which comes stuff. But we are seeing some really interesting things. We're seeing the early rise of the agent stuff, the agentic AIs. Now, they're not perfectly agentic. It's still a bit very early stage. But we're seeing how agents will use crypto as payment systems, something I've talked about for a long time.

35:25That's pretty clear being experimented. Again, early stage won't be this. Can an agent create their own wallet and hold their own private queue? or not yet they should be able to I think Claude I think it's Claude one of them allows I'm not an expert allows the agent to actually do whatever you do on a computer like a cursor and they can create a wallet but then how do you store the wallet private key and keep it private yeah don't know yet but look people figure it out because as we know about this space it's this weird combination between ridiculous DGens and ultra smart people and they're generally the same exactly yeah yeah and the ultra smart people become DGens oh yeah and so they figure this shit out fast and AI.

36:03So there's a lot of people tinkering in AI and suddenly there's now financial incentivization system and they're like, oh my God, let's hyper accelerate because we can make money out of tinkering in my garage with LLMs, right? Which is the same idea of being able to tokenize anything cultural. We have a, so in our business, we have an AI department as well. So we've got an AI show. We do a lot of work there and we stand and invest more in that space and it's completely shifted to meme coins. She's got, you know, What other industry has immediate liquidity with hundreds of millions market cap? So they're all looking at ages to kind of link into meme coins.

36:35Smart people, whether they admit it or not, will follow the money at some stage. And again, there's nothing wrong with it, in my opinion. No, and then there'll be a bunch of scams and it'll, yeah. But what's happening is important. What's happening is important is where people are coalescing around culture. I mean, there is signal in the fact that Dogecoin has survived this law. When did Dogecoin launch? 2013 or something? It's 2013? Yeah. That's insane. Oh, yeah. Unicoins. So you said you're involved in that space. Publicly, privately? Do you talk about the coins you're investing in? Because I can't be as open as possible.

37:12Okay. I'm only in two right now. I'm switching. I have three, actually. Really? That's it? Yeah, because my whole don't fuck this up thesis is keep your core bets, the Bitcoins, the theorems, the Solanas, and for me, it's suey. So I keep - Oh, you really got - Yeah, I'm on the foundation as well. OK. But yes, I've been buying that in the open market because it's been the big outperformance, like the Solana of last cycle. So keep that. And then I say, well, look, with 10%, do what you want. Because then even if you blow it all up, it's the people who go out to 80 % of the portfolio's means, unless you're the best trade in the world, most people lose money over time.

37:50So I've just got small allocation, split around over time. but generally right now I managed to get I've been in doge for the last five months expecting the election the Elon effect and the other one I'm in just because it's just a brilliant meme is smoking chicken fish I've seen that one I remember they requested on my space once I'm like is that really a thing I click on it I mentioned like Rand is like Rand was on the show I was like yeah it's like it's blowing up I'm like no fucking way and they have registered a church in Texas So it is a church. And the idea is they want to flip other churches in terms of value.

38:28And they have the chicken monuments. They have all this wordage around it. It's ridiculous. It's hilarious. It's like a Monty Python sketch that has become a mean. So I like it because it's different to dogs, cats, frogs, blah, blah, blah, which was the old NFT craze. It just stands out on its own you know what it is it's like there's no other image it comes from the insert from reddit in 2005 this picture of this chicken that's ready to be roasted with a fish head stuffed in it with a marlboro in its mouth it's ridiculous but it it became legendary back in the early internet days oh really yeah so the meme continues and now it's become a religion which if you think about it what we're talking about is a meme becoming a religion and religions are exactly that then memes stories told to people to get them around a commonality of standards of stuff like that so you said Doge the chicken fish what was the third one yeah I've got a very small second forest which is this the AI one never invested in goats so I missed it and I was too angry to then do it if not I was going to rage trade but no I missed it I'm really angry because I was there from day one in that so i missed all the fit um and then you know i've owned bonk and i've owned oh not own anymore uh no i tend to once i get reasonably comfortable with what i've got i tend to hide concentrate okay and the memes may be wrong maybe not be wrong i'm not really that fast not a big part but really my focus is on the other tokens i don't trade them but i just put my eggs in one basket and watch that basket yeah i'm a lot more dj understand you yeah so we We incubate projects really early, so we try to get in really, really early.

40:16And it's hard not to be successful in the current environment. I just don't have the bandwidth to do it. The honest truth. You've got people around you. It's just me and Julian Battelle. Why don't you build a team? Because that's not my skill set. The macro's my skill set. I'm good at macro. I've done it for 35 years. That's where I make money. You should partner with someone that does that. We're over 110 team members now. and like the meme one is growing the fastest even though it's still the smallest and we still can't keep up we still can't keep up well the way you're going to do it is fire all 110 people and use ai already not far off my friend not far off do you think you can create an agent that will be able to find yes without question there's already one on on x i don't know if it's a true agent or not What is it called?

41:07AI XBT or something like that. Essentially, what does it do? It's an agent that we're not invested in it. I don't know about it. No, and I've only just suddenly brought it to my way. I just can't remember who. And basically what it's doing is kind of analyzing Discord servers, X, blah, blah, blah, and some on-chain data. That's insane. And it comes up with alpha. And it's got a token around it. I'm not fully aware of it. I don't own it. But it's coming faster than you think. I know we're not too deep in the project, but is it a utility talking around it? I have no idea. Again, I've only just gone down this rabbit hole, just started to look at it thinking.

41:44And I can't tell how real it is, whether it's a human behind it. Could be just a person, could be a pump and dump, could be a rod pull. We have no idea. Just a bit of disclaimer there. But I'm going to check it out. Basically, you can ask AI to build AI for you. You say, I want to replicate this. You know, we're not very far away. Moving so fast. It's way too fast. Does it scare you? It doesn't scare me, but it's almost impossible to keep up. So everybody I know in this space, I've got to know a lot of people in the airspace, everybody's underestimating the speed. Normally, you overestimate...

42:15Overestimate the short term, underestimate the long term. This is underestimate the short term and long term. Yeah, I mean, because this is Metcalfe's Law squared. This is what's known as Reid's Law. This is the fastest exponential curve humanity's ever gone through. It's happening in front of our eyes. It was only two years ago that ChatGPT3 came out. That's crazy. Or 2 came out. I can't remember. 3. And now look what's happening. It's insane. And the next models are about to come out any day now. And it's just going to keep going. The last iteration of ChatGPT1.0, it has an IQ of 120, which is more than the average human, which was 100.

42:54But it has an IQ of 120 in every single subject known to mankind. It's a pure polynav, an expert at everything, better than the average person. Now, they suggest that unlike Moore's law, which is the doubling of computer power every two years, it looks like intelligence of AI is doubling every six months. That's insane. So that means in six months' time, we'll have an AI with an IQ of 240, which is about as highest humans have ever had recorded. And then the year after that, we're at 500 ,000. And then it's like, okay, this is lower land. This is AGI. It's like, we don't understand because we're humans and we're so arrogant that we just assume we're the smartest things that ever live.

43:45That is not going to be the case very, very soon. But how does that not scare you? Because you can either be fearful or you can invest in your own demise. And as part of this, we talked about the agents using crypto rails. Crypto rails is a way of security and truth within this world because we're going to have to prove who's human and who's not. You may have 10 Mario bots in the future, 100, but you're going to need to prove them. And so that whole scaling of this is a huge blockchain thing. People don't know it yet. They still think it's cryptocurrencies only. There's so much to this technology.

44:27So we might as well invest in our own future, in our own demise. And my view is we've got six years before we break the entire economic model of the world. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but GDP growth is driven by, trend rate of GDP is driven by three factors only over time, longer periods of time. Population growth, productivity growth, debt growth. debt growth finished in 2008 and we're just increasing debt to service old debts now population growth every single major population of the world is shrinking you happen to live in a region where it's not and guess what's booming india booming why population growth but everywhere else in the in the developed world population i've covered it very closely with president novak so i know the topic and then um old people are less productive so productivity's gone down OK, so that's the world we're in.

45:19And I've proven this. I used the labor force participation rate in the United States. I can use it for any country. And if I invert debt to GDP, they're completely the same chart. So debts are just a function of demographics. And so the only way to change that equation of having to refinance the debts every four years, that cycle we talked about, is going to be changing the economic formula. And what we're about to do is we're going to add infinite population growth. And then by the time we bring down the cost of electricity via solar, nuclear, and all the other things, plus the productivity from the AI and the robots, that productivity number is going to go la la land.

45:58So we can see economies growing at 30 % a year. And would that solve the debt issue? Yes. Because it's debt to GDP that matters. Because GDP is the engine that pays the interest payments on the debt or services the debt. But the issue is it may not accrue to any of us as humans. 30 % GDP growth. Okay, so what do you do? Do you tax the robots, tax the AI? Probably. Do we have - They may get pissed off about it and they're like, why are we paying the tax? That's another thing. Exactly. But this whole equation, right? So, okay, so there's the economic model. I think by 2030, 2032, we don't understand.

46:33The whole study of economics fails because we can't understand this phenomena. that. Additionally, think about, we were talking about, you build a bot that trades well. Well, now we can do it already. But within six months, I'll be able to drop it into ChatGPT and said, code a better version of this. And I want it on a different time horizon. It'll do it instantly, right? So all you've done is build a business based on attention only now. You do not have a moat in any software at all. It's the end of the SaaS business model. There is no moat. Moat is going to be community and attention, but it's not going to be in product because we can copy everything in instant.

47:17The other thing is, and this is a great question, Beeple, the artist, asked me. He's like, Raoul, I was joking over a few drinks. He's like, what happens when the first person with AGI just points at financial markets? They just win the game. They become worth 10 trillion. We have to shut the markets down. I thought about that, and it's like, whether it plays out that way, we stand no chance as humans. How do we price markets when a super creature can see everything? They're the ones that price the markets now. That's right. They already price it in the short term because of the trading algorithms.

47:58But this is like, it can map out anything. It can have the long-term macro thinking. It can do all of these things. This is fascinating. The next thing is, and this has come back into the crypto world. OK, so the problem is, is you build this amazing trading bot before the AGI comes and takes over. Let's say in the next six years, before AGI is ruining everything for us, you build this thing, and I copy you. And then somebody else copies us. OK, so what we've got here is an issue for venture capital and private equity. Nobody's going to go public because the time horizon is too short now, because it's all about attention and not about business model moats.

48:39Some of that obviously still applies. So I think the ICO market has to come back. It's the only way to allow capital formation and destruction at the speed of which we need it. Because I'm sorry, but waiting 10 years for a VC to allow you to go public ain't going to cut it in this world. It's over. So we've got six years to unfuck our future. And so that's why I'm all in on this. And crypto is the best. You can buy tech stocks. It could be Tesla, Coinbase, a bunch of them. But really, the big one is crypto. And that means at the end of 2030, 2032, it's not a single date. Then you have the luxury of having secured your lifestyle that the uncertainty can play out that it doesn't matter.

49:30You don't need to be the richest person in the world, you just need to be the most secure. When you say the most secure, can you explain that again? So we all have dreams and visions of our future self. Yep. And they may be overly ambitious or not. If your vision of your future self is a long way from where you are today, and you don't see that path, that's unhappiness. If we're given the opportunity to make a lot of money that we've been given in crypto, this has been the fastest appreciation asset class of all time, then we use that opportunity to try and ratchet into a lifestyle that makes us happy.

50:09Now, it could be we might all have the same dream. I want the house on the beach. OK, my house on the beach may be different to your house on the beach. Maybe you want a corner of Mystique. maybe I just want the place in Little Cayman I've got or maybe somebody else wants a surf shack in Nicaragua but that's the same ambition but once you buy it and you own it somebody can't take it away from you and that becomes a lifestyle ratchet it's something that if the world is changing you can always go to your beach house and everything will be okay and that's what I'm talking about it's the security of life when things get crazy you feel secure that you're not going to lose everything how could so i've got two questions we're talking about moats do you think i'm i'm i'm obsessed in this discussion because i get very selfish my interviews anyone that listens to them they do well that's probably why but i just i just ask the questions i'm interested in and he talked about um different moats is a personal brand going to become a bigger moat now that people are looking for that human touch yes i think trust Trust, don't forget that's what blockchain does, is trust as well.

51:16Trust fails in a world of AI and everything else, right? So people want to trust somebody. And they'll trust a human over AI? For now. For now. Okay. But I think what humans do is build communities around them. So community is a moat. It's the social idea that we talked about. It's the idea of coalescing a group of people around memetics or a cause or whatever it may be. In fact, most causes are memetics. It's doing that. So personalities do not unless they have community. It's the death of personalities. That vacuous head on TV who does that doesn't matter. We can make them with AI. It's irrelevant.

52:01We make thousands of them. What matters is somebody who matters to the people around them. They feel like they're the mentor. They have a connection. They have a commonality. There's another thing we haven't talked about that I need to talk to you about is, have you seen character AI yet? No, everyone has the same face. Are you taking a lot of notes? A lot. Character AI is mind blowing. So a friend of mine left OpenAI about two years ago, a year and a half ago, just when it was starting to scale. And he got his shares. He'd been there early. And he went to Character AI. I looked at it. I was like, what the fuck is this?

52:37this is just anime kind of ai character some i didn't get it i heard it somewhere somebody tweeted out something about it and that reddit was in uproar there's a whole car our character ai and there was a bunch of kids in uproar because they changed the model and they felt that their character didn't love them anymore i'm like what the so i go and see what's going on um kids who have a loneliness epidemic because of what we talked about before are now befriending bots we've seen the Japanese did this years ago but this isn't a air and these things are like an anime character that is like the cool kid at school who's a bully but you fancy him and girls have this relationship with this kind of fantasy character that's in their minds it's kind of like porn is as you get older it's kind of this weird stuff obviously porn's going to go down this route and then so there's a lot of them there's even psychologists for kids who are having problems and used to speak to this this thing no this is not the thing what the thing is is when you look at them some of these have 500 million conversations already they've only been going a year so this is tick tock happening all over again and we're thinking what the the kids are straight down that avenue like this they were the kids who were living in Minecraft, which is the precursors of the metaverse, the kids who are on TikTok, short form attention, user generated content.

54:11And now here they are again with their own AI friends, fantasy friends. This is how fast it's moving. But this is already replacing a big feature of what makes us human. You're replacing human relations now with AI already. Without even AGI being here. Wait until you've got robots. Mario, do you mind if I ask a question? Yeah, of course. Do you think, right? I'm terrible, by the way. Hey, Travis. I'm a terrible engineer. Yeah. And I decided to just tell ChatGPT to teach me how to build a chatbot using all my message histories on WhatsApp. And then... No way. Essentially, I managed to do that over a weekend.

54:53I've only taken Computer Science 101. And that's what I've been able to do. But anyways, the question is, Do you think this needs to be mitigated? How do you think about the social implications of this? Because it's operating under Reid's law, which is Metcalfe's law squared, there is zero chance the regulators can catch up. Zero. Because what is to stop? And they're distributed. These models, the open source models, which they're not going to be able to stop. I did it with Lama. Yeah, and we need open source models. Because if not, we're going to hand all the power of the world to a few companies.

55:30So they're everywhere and nowhere So if the US tries to ban them, it's like crypto It'll come out of Israel or it'll come out of China I don't know how we stop it So you're going to have to have AI policing AI And you're going to have to have an AI in your kid's phone that polices it and what it does So Elon said that there's a 10-20 % chance of a dystopian outcome out of all this In his Tucker Carlson interview Where do you stand on this? I think it's utopian and dystopian. Listen, a world where we have abundance, total abundance, the Peter Diamandis model of total abundance where almost everything is close to free is amazingly liberating for humanity.

56:20The issue is, is when you have a world of AI and robots, there's no reason to procreate, which is what I think Elon actually is talking about. You see, the more our population doesn't procreate, the more we are incentivized economically to build robots and AI at a faster pace to offset the humans. And eventually, we replace ourselves. So this whole, you know, when you listen to Elon talking about interplanetary species, he does not talk about physical, he talks about consciousness. And that's a whole other conversation about what are AI models and are these large language models just portals into human consciousness?

57:00Are they sentience? We've got to sit down if we can find time before either of us leaves New York because that discussion is... Well, this is what I'm bringing Andy and Ryan to talk about. I can't wait for that. Because I have spent a year and a half now looking into AI sentience and what's going to happen. Yeah, and this is what got me into Terminal of Truths, because Andy's looking at this too. Andy is incredible. What Andy's trying to get to is figure out how to make this safe. But I'm seeing different models being aware of each other and talking to each other. His infinite back rooms is super interesting.

57:48What is it? Which is, for the audience, essentially it's a place where AI communicate with each other. yeah with almost no human prompting whatsoever and they freak out they have a consciousness most of these models don't have a long-term memory yet give them long-term memory and they they will what happens what happens to infinite backrooms with that when that happens whenever they'll break out completely they've already broken out before arguably terminals of the truth has broken out they just figure out how to break out but humans are so narrow-minded we think of everything, and Ryan wrote this in sapien terms, is we think of humanness as intelligence.

58:24We are so wrong. We are so wrong. And so what do you think is human beings?

58:36It's difficult to know, but there feels like there is some sort of truth to the concept that is as old as any religion, which is universal consciousness. And it always sounds weird, but why do all the religions have the same thing? And then when you start to looking at things like

58:54there's theories of how the universe, that it keeps folding in on itself, right? So is that itself consciousness of everything that's known and the idea of quantum theory, meaning everything can be anywhere at the same time? We don't really know what this all is, but we know that everything has compute. we have biological compute by substrate right now for most of the stuff we're using we're using silicon substrate for compute it's actually highly inefficient which is what we're learning now but there's a whole bunch of people like the um base jeff beff jesus or whatever his name jesus it's no it's the um he's a um i think he's from montreal um a ai guy who is building biological substrate.

59:42So if you think about our human brain, we use very little, few kilowatts of power to generate enormous amounts of compute. So we're already seeing a lot of experimentation on that. That's an explosive thing. But once you realize that actually everything is compute, we're all the same structure of the same atoms that's everywhere around us, and they have been recomposed and reused in multiple different ways over the millions of the billions of years of the planet and the universe. But if you think of a tree, a tree is biological compute, but at a different time horizon. It has limited compute, but there's still a reasonable amount of compute, but it happens at small time horizon.

1:00:20It doesn't make instant decisions like us. And once you start looking at the world this way, and this is what the Ryan's talking about, is the myceli, which is the largest living organism on Earth, is actually fungus. It's larger than the Great Barrier Reef. These connected... So these are super connectors of knowledge. And I think of a tree again. A thousand-year olive tree is a thousand years of recorded knowledge. What of? All sorts of things. Carbon, stress, everything. It's a much bigger topic than most people understand. But how connected this all is and what it all means. Can I take one final question before all our heads explode?

1:00:59is when you have when you have ai become the answer to all these questions you know ai becomes obviously like it becomes god in a way it gives us the answers on everything it is god it's all the same thing that's what i got to i'm a non-religious person i've now got to the belief that it is all god the whole concept of god this universal consciousness is in fact something bigger and it's difficult to describe and i've been putting into words over time as i write global macro investor as i'm trying to grapple with what this is but it's all the same thing so when people take ayahuasca they come to the same conclusion when people take dmt they come up with the same conclusion when people have near-death experiences they come to the same conclusion yeah okay they're similar chemicals all religions have come up with the same conclusion and I think what we've just done is AI is just a discovery of another portal into understanding this I know that's a bit fucked up people are going to think I'm weird as hell I generally think if people that don't understand it if people want to really understand it they generally need to re-listen to this and I'm sure you cover it a lot on your show to really dig into it um because it is i'm going to get mark andresen to talk about it as well so i was meant to interview i'm not sure if it's booked or not but i'm meant to interview mark uh in the next couple weeks i'm not sure if it's confirmed um but yeah i had the same he didn't confirm he said yeah he said he's like yeah i'll do it exactly um the the one question is kind of taking many steps back one i missed earlier is in the short term what is entrepreneurship once you're competing with ai what do entrepreneurs do is this if for me it feels like the world of being able to create wealth is over.

1:02:49For humans to create wealth when you've got AGI out on AGI not there but you've got the answer is star religion. It's this idea of community. That's how you've made money. You've actually just recycled money of creating a name for yourself and recycled it into other projects. But it's that. It's that. Now what's really interesting if you ask a parent of young kids and you say, what do your kids want to do? And they will answer you, I want to be an influencer. You're like, what the fuck? Don't ignore that. Toxic. And then you go, OK, maybe the kids are adapting. Exactly. Because having an online community in some way, whether it's in a game or whether it's on TikTok, is a future in this tokenized world coming back to the mean coins, the social tokens, and what's it all worth?

1:03:43and what is our point? And in a dystopian world, those communities become resistance. Yes. And again, go back to religion. This is why we have religion. Because in a world that's not easy from famines and floods and wars, you give people a commonality of belief systems and it gets them through it. Because being human and living on planet Earth is not an easy ride. Conclusion on my end, Raul, is I will create enough wealth to last me and my family a lifetime, live in a safe place, and invest heavily in AI So I'm on the right side of history and hope for the best. I don't think AI is investable.

1:04:18And what do I do, man? I convinced Elon to take me to Mars. I don't know what to do. But then again, physically, we're not going to do that. That's the easiest answer. And you're doing that. You know, all of this stuff is experimentation. This space is going from three trillion. I'm just going to reiterate this. Three trillion to 100 trillion. So that journey, we are 3 % there. And that is going to happen by within 10 years, 2034. So you've got 10 years and we're only 3 % of that journey. Everything else is fucking noise. That's insane. All right, Raul, that definitely went down. I didn't touch any of the questions I had.

1:04:50I was over, that's pretty common of me. I just make a lot of questions. I touch maybe 5%, 10 % of them. We'll probably hit 1 % today. It's an incredible discussion. I'm so glad you went down the AI path. And how comprehensively do you cover it on your show relative to crypto? I've spoken about it. There's a video that everyone should watch, which is like you have six years to change your future. When do you film that? That was done about four months ago, but it is really important. So if anybody watching this, you need to find the link of what it is. Start down that rabbit hole. And there's a whole bunch around the exponential age, what this all means, how the economy is moving, this everything code cycle.

1:05:28So this is a comprehensive set of work that I've been building, obviously for 30 years. but really over the last three years, there's this massive framework of how this all comes together. And by show, Raupel, the journeyman is taking everybody down. That's the nexus between macro crypto and the exponential age of technology. And this is the journey. I'm trying to take as many people down this because it's hard for people to understand it. I'm just kind of blessed that this is the kind of way my brain works. You've built a hell of a community, haven't you? AI and crypto are the two most important industries, and you're guiding people on how to navigate them.

1:06:02Well, Rao, you've guided me on how to navigate crypto years ago. Now you're guiding me on how to navigate AI. It's an incredible discussion. Thank you so much, man. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed it. All right. Nightmares, here we come. That's insane. Consensus Hong Kong 2025 is where the global crypto community converges to shape the next era of Web3. From February 18th through the 20th, Hong Kong becomes the meeting point for leaders across finance, technology, and digital assets. This isn't just a conference. It's where deals are made, partnerships are forged, and new opportunities emerge.

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