Crypto's Post-Election Future ft. Perianne Boring, Chen Arad & Lee Bratcher

27:10This guy was a professor for blockchain at MIT and everyone thought that it's going to look completely different. You know, I can't speak obviously for, you know, for him or for the agency. but I think it's really important to kind of not, you know, to, no matter who wins, maintain the non-partisan standpoint that there's just a need for progress here. And that sometimes when someone becomes, goes into the role, you know, there's politics that they need to deal with. There's a lot of kind of things in the background, or maybe just, you know, other things that we're not aware of that, you know, it's very, it can be hard to anticipate, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, how an appointment will exactly run things.

27:47I think one really interesting question about the SEC post-election, whatever happens there, is not only, you know, is obviously like there's the turf war element, but also the question of enforcement. The SEC has really been kind of carrying the flag of regulation by enforcement. That's how the industry perceives it. And there's a lot of evidence out there. And, you know, I think we can probably all agree that there are a lot of cases where enforcement is necessary, where things are wrong. But I think also one of the biggest frustrations for the industry was that a lot of companies that in the absence of regulatory clarity did their best to be compliant, ended up being the first one to be enforced against.

28:23And that's been just really frustrating and obviously not something that says, you know, that invites companies from abroad to spend time here. So, you know, so I think, you know, how is this going to impact enforcement is going to be is a big, big question mark. But I'm pretty sure we're going to see a difference with different leadership. Yeah, and I'll jump in here on other agencies. Of course, we're all watching, you know, there'd be a very wide divergence in who would sit in that Secretary of Treasury position. Of course, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency is very important for our industry.

28:59The Fed, the bank, essentially the bank regulators because of this Operation Chokepoint 2.0 coined by all of our friends, Nick Carter. he's popularized that phrase. Essentially, banks are not banking digital assets companies because of pressure from the federal regulators. It's certainly not coming from the state banking regulators. Each bank has a dual regulatory environment in which the federal regulators and state regulators regulate the banks. And the federal regulators have exerted over the decades quite a bit more influence than the state regulators. They have more funding, more expertise, And I think we're watching that quite closely as that has been a very it's been a choke point and it's been a very negative issue that we've all been facing in the industry for the last several years.

29:55Yeah, I think we've seen two very different crypto policy proposals from the Trump campaign and the Harris campaign. From Harris's side, we really don't have much of a proposal. I mean, she's issued a couple of bullet points and she's like she said the word digital assets publicly, I think one time, which is great. She's acknowledging us and she's speaking about digital assets in a positive light. That's definitely a huge step from trying to completely throw us all out of the United States just a couple of months before. So that's certainly progress. But that's really not a proposal. We actually have no idea what Harris's proposal is because they have not been transparent at all in sharing what is their agenda when it comes to digital assets.

30:50What exactly are they looking to do in a new administration? What does that mean? What kind of policies are we putting in place? Trump, on the other hand, did issue a comprehensive blockchain policy proposal publicly to the community. He first did that at the Bitcoin conference this summer in Nashville, and he outlined a very comprehensive plan where he would ensure that many different agencies would support the growth of cryptocurrency in the United States. And he's come out to say he wants the United States to be the cryptocurrency leader of the world. And so you would have the full administration really focused on empowering that, encouraging the development and the investment into blockchain technology, which is an advanced technology, which we should be doing with all advanced technologies, in my opinion.

31:45So I think there's a huge difference between these two candidates. I think if we want to talk maybe markets, something that's been more of a recent development from the Trump campaign is he's been saying maybe we'll pay off the$35 trillion in debt with crypto. He hasn't explained exactly what that means, but Bobby Kennedy did. So when Robert F. Kennedy Jr. spoke at the Bitcoin conference, he outlined his proposal when he was still in the running for president. And he said, we should buy 4 million Bitcoin. The US should buy 4 million Bitcoin and make that our strategic reserve. So I believe Trump's statements where he's saying maybe we'll pay off the debt with Bitcoin, I believe what he's doing is he's endorsing Bobby Kennedy's proposal that he laid out now that Bobby is his running mate.

32:44Either way, for the United States - Not running mate, supporter. Sorry, right. He's endorsed him and he's now supporting the campaign and it's been widely understood he'll serve in the administration as well.

33:01but Trump did endorse a strategic Bitcoin reserve. He said, we won't sell any of the crypto that we already have through all of our law enforcement seizures. We're going to hold on to that. Kennedy took it a step forward saying, well, we're not going to sell the Bitcoin. We're going to hold all the crypto we currently have. And in addition, we should also buy more so we have a bigger reserve. Either way, this is very bullish for game theory. When it comes to Bitcoin, if you have the United States, which serves as the world reserve currency, just think about what kind of repercussions that can have on the global stage.

33:45And when people talk about Bitcoin could be at a price of 5 million by 2030 or even more, That's how you get to those types of mind-blowing numbers when you have buyers like sovereign wealth funds, the United States of America's treasury making those types of purchase orders. So it's – I think the future is extremely bullish either way. But a Trump administration and a Harris administration I do think look very different. And I also want to weigh – go ahead. Yeah, I mean, honestly, just an anecdote to really echo Perianne's point about the, let's call it light policy clarity on the Democratic side.

34:29I mentioned those, you know, closed meetings that a lot of them were held by the Democrats, you know, with various people, a lot of potential, you know, potential Democratic voters. and really that's kind of where I you know I personally some of the meetings I was in felt like there you know there's a bit of a wall that that you know we hit when you get try to get into the details what does it mean like beyond the statements being made like what does it mean how do you actually see a pass to uh legislation uh you know it's it's it's it you know I left the room feeling that most people were not fully convinced uh again because there's not a lot of clarity there and that obviously connects to the track record of the current administration And who wasn't fully convinced of what?

35:13Sorry. So I'm describing, you know, meetings where there were various industry representatives. But, you know, I think the audience was mostly Democratic, you know, kind of lifelong Democrat voters who come from, you know, who are in the industry and basically say, you know, it's very hard for me to vote Democratic based on the last few years because crypto is really important to me. And, you know, there was an attempt, I mentioned this charm attack, there was an attempt to just show that things are different, they're going to be different. You know, the candidate is making statements about digital assets and the importance of innovation.

35:48But then when, you know, questions got a bit harder, you know, tried to go deeper, then, you know, there wasn't a lot of, you know, I at least didn't feel like there's, you know, a lot of clarity of what does that mean in terms of policy? What bills, you know, will they be supporting, whatnot? not. So that, you know, that left, I felt a lot of people in those meetings feeling a bit unconvinced or at least, you know, not as convinced as I think many people want it to be because, you know, there are, again, like a lot of those folks are, you know, lifelong democratic voters who really want to vote Democrat and really don't want to vote for Trump, but just find it really hard because of the policies surrounding crypto.

36:26Lee, jump in, any thoughts on this, what this might look like under a Vice President Harris administration, if it were to land that way. Yeah, I think from a macro markets perspective, either way, we're going to be expanding the easy money, you know, government spending spigots, right? Under a Trump administration, that would be mostly through tax cuts, but keeping government spending the same. And under Harris administration is probably expanding government spending, keeping taxes the same, or perhaps rolling back some of the Trump administration tax cuts, or letting those expire. So I think either way, in the medium and long term, it's very bullish for risk assets and for Bitcoin.

37:06I do think it's unlikely that the U.S. buys 4 million Bitcoin, but what an amazing thing that would be if that happened. You could literally print dollars, the world reserve currency, to buy Bitcoin before anyone really knew what was happening. and essentially, you know, Bitcoin becomes a part of the basket of world reserve currencies, including the dollar and the yen and the euro. And so I don't think we get anywhere in the near term about talking about Bitcoin as the world reserve currency that's probably counterproductive for us in the halls of power. But as part of a basket of world reserve currencies and as stablecoins proliferate, as those expand demand for dollars and demand for treasuries, further expanding and prolonging the dollar as the world reserve currency.

37:56Of course, that won't last forever. Is it going to be five years or 50 years? That is all up to the choices that are made by elected officials over the next several years, and particularly in the short term. Right. The debt to GDP ratio is certainly expanding and at an alarming rate. And, you know, four million Bitcoin in strategic reserve would, as Bitcoin price appreciates over time, would would be a pretty strong bulwark against that. We'll see if certainly that won't happen under a Harris administration, although anything's possible. The chances under under Trump administration are higher, but unfortunately, I think still perhaps a little bit unlikely.

38:39You know, if you look at the seven-day Bitcoin chart, I don't know if we can bring that up, but that's clearly not being priced in. U.S. buying 4 million Bitcoin, not on the seven-day Bitcoin chart. No, it's a low likelihood event, but one that would be really bullish for the price of Bitcoin, but more importantly, bullish for the state of the U.S. economy. and the fact that the dollar should remain the world reserve currency for decades to come because of the institutions that the United States has helped to foster and nurture over the last several years since the Bretton Woods Agreement that have really facilitated a world economic boom like we've never known in history.

39:18One thing that is concerning about a future Trump administration is his reliance on tariffs. You know, tariffs aren't inherently bad, but there are some, you know, negative externalities with tariffs, including high inflation and other impacts that I think, you know, certainly would be offset by 4 million Bitcoin in the strategic reserve. But I do get a little bit concerned when he talks so much about relying on tariffs to pay off the federal debt. perhaps that's a concerning development and maybe he's, there's a little bit of bluster there to try to force China to do the right thing. And so if that's the case, that's probably a good strategic move.

39:57But if we're putting 100 % tariffs on things, that's, you know, economic, any economic professor from the Keynesian school to the Austrian school in between, they will tell you that's a concerning development? Well, I think Bitcoin is a very real potential solution to one of the biggest national security challenges our generation faces. I mean, let's not underestimate or take for granted our exorbitant privilege of living in the United States, which is the world reserve currency. It's called the exorbitant privilege for a reason. We have one of the most highest standards of living around the world and the history of the world because of our standing on the global stage.

40:45And if we lose that, if we lose our standing as the world reserve currency, this could have challenges that I think most of us can't even conceive. If we're no longer able to print money or have this status, how do we fund Medicare? How do we fund Medicaid? How do we fund Social Security? How do we fund our military? How do we fund all of these programs that so many Americans rely on and are counting on? You can't. That's a very, very real threat that our generation faces. The US dollar is under attack globally. It's not reported on in the mainstream media, I think, enough, and probably so because we don't want to scare people or bring more attention to it.

41:35But there are many, many talks around the world of many countries trying to leave the current system for one that benefits their own jurisdictions. We have a serious issue here. How do we increase the demand of the U.S. dollar? I really don't think it's that complicated. Back it by the best performing asset in the world, which is Bitcoin. I think this is how we preserve our dominance for the next generation, for the next 100 years. I don't really think it's that complicated. And I think there's only one candidate that understands that. Well, you're going to have a lot of difficulty finding mainstream economists who agree with you on that point about the complication of maintaining the exorbitant privilege of the U.S.

42:21dollar. But you're certainly right, Perianne, about the risks of de-dollarization, BRICS specifically being a major potential challenge to the U.S. dollar and all of those unfunded liabilities that you mentioned there. Absolutely spot on with that. I should say, I think we were looking at the five-day chart on Bitcoin, not the seven-day, but basically the same. Look, the bottom line here is Bitcoin has essentially doubled over the past 12 months. It's been hovering around the$70 ,000 mark ever since, a little above, a little below. But that's basically where we are. No major breakouts yet in terms of the expectations of this election.

42:55And also, we should say the converse, no major crash about fears about it. That's just where we are right now. Lee, we could have a whole other conversation about trade and tariffs. That would be a fun one to do on another day. That's definitely something that is worth discussing. But for the purposes of this conversation, I want to continue to focus on digital assets. One thing that we haven't mentioned yet, haven't discussed in detail, is the composition of the U.S. Congress, or whether or not you guys believe or have any insight into whether the Republicans will continue to hold the House or potentially flip the Senate.

43:29This is obviously a major question from a legislative perspective. What are your thoughts on that? Who wants to jump in first? Marianne, let's start with you. Yeah, I'm happy to share our thoughts on this. So on the House side, it's a bit of a toss-up. We don't really have a strong inclination if it's going to go red or blue. You know, and there's 435 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives. Every House member is up every two years. So everybody's out campaigning today and has been this year. So it's a bit of a toss up if it's going to go red or blue in the House. In the Senate, it's almost a foregone conclusion that it's going to go red with Republican control or Republican majority in the U.S.

44:19Senate. Republicans really only needed to win one additional seat. And I think Democrats were defending 23 seats and Republicans were only defending 11 seats. And most of those seats were in very strong red states where the Democrats were defending a lot more seats. Many of those looked very competitive. And it's almost a foregone conclusion that Republicans are going to take West Virginia, which would give them that one seat to get the majority. So it looks like we're going to have a Republican majority in the Senate. But hey, nobody truly knows. These are just predictions. These are polls. So I don't want to say this is definitive, but that's pretty much widely accepted amongst the politicos in D.C.

45:09Yeah, I've been reading similar points. Anyone else have any thoughts about the Congress, its constituency, and what it would mean for digital assets? Yeah, I think the Senate going to the Republicans is a pretty big deal. Obviously, you all know confirmations in the Senate are going to be quite important. And so regardless of what administration we see in power, a Republican Senate could screen out some problematic Harris appointees and she'd be more likely to appoint people that could be confirmed. And, you know, in the House, I agree with Perianne's analysis. It's a complete toss up. I think what really matters for our industry is the Financial Services Committee and the Ag Committee.

45:52And so not necessarily the composition of those committees, but more so the chairman and who are presiding over the committees. And so I think Chairman Waters would be quite different than a chairman French Hill or someone from the Republican side. Although, you know, less damaging than Senate Banking Committee, Sherrod Brown has been. I think, you know, with Sherrod Brown, with the Democrats losing control of the Senate and him losing some power in that committee, that bodes very well. And it also takes the wind out of, you know, the person that we probably mentioned the most up here, takes the wind out of the sails of Senator Elizabeth Warren, because she will then be sitting on a committee with less Democrat influence and pretty much be relegated to the sidelines for the next several years.

46:43something, again, I'll go back to my nonpartisan point. I just think it's critical. I think that no matter what happens, it's going to look a little bit different. One way or another, it's going to be

46:57tight, both houses. Whatever side wins will need the other side in order to advance constructive legislation. My hope is that even if, let's say, the industry doesn't get the chairs they want for ag or financial services or senate banking is that there's going to be more opportunity to you know there's going to be more you know ability to work across the aisle i had the distinct pleasure of hosting a fireside chat with majority whip congressman tom emmer of minnesota and he you know obviously a very prominent republican obviously a partisan figure but it was incredible to hear him talk about not only how much he believes in the importance of non-partisanship on this issue, but also on how much he's seeing activity and more interest on the Democratic side, that he's seeing a lot of Democratic congressmen that are keen to work with Republicans on this.

47:54And I hope that ultimately, again, whoever wins, I'm sure that there are going to be some committees that the world industry gets who they want, maybe others that not. But whoever wins, we're going to see more of that non-partisan spirit to just say, this is too important to not finally get some legislation in place so the industry gets the clarity it needs. And it was really, really encouraging for me to hear this from Majority Whip Emmer, just like it was encouraging to hear, for example, for the first time, as part of the Democratic charm attack I mentioned earlier, Senate Majority Leader, the current one, Chuck Schumer, saying he believes it's possible to pass legislation this year.

48:33So you're seeing across the board, just an openness and sort of an understanding that it's ridiculous. Something needs to happen. And I hope that whatever the results are, that will play an important role, that nonpartisanship. So is it fair to say that everyone on this panel is broadly constructive about the changes that are going to come in terms of the switch of administration and the change potentially in leadership in Congress, but certainly in some members that are going to be changing? Does everyone on this panel believe that we are just moving forward here in terms of advancing? The question being just at what speed, at what pace that happens.

49:10I think that's fair. I also don't think it can get any worse than the Biden-Harris administration. So, I mean, there's also a very low bar of what progress looks like right now. But look, this is just technological progress. You know, again, crypto should have never become a partisan issue. It's only been a partisan issue for a couple of years. This is about technology. This is an advanced technology. It's critical that the U.S. is at the forefront of all advanced technologies. Of course, blockchain is one among those. And that's really, I think logic and reason are eventually going to persist as people understand better that this is just technology.

49:52This is not politics. Let's get the politics out of this. So, yeah, I think over time, we will have more progress in terms of pro-crypto and pro-blockchain policy. But we still have a long way to go to achieve that goal of making the U.S. the leader of the blockchain industry. There's definitely a lot to do, but it's still within our reach. Yeah, I think the medium to long-term prospects are really great. The short term, we're advancing, as you said, Ash. Whether we're advancing in a Honda or on a SpaceX rocket kind of depends on what happens today. I'll add to that that, yes, I agree. I mean, I think Perian's point is actually an important one.

50:40Like, the bar is really low, so it's really hard to see how it won't improve, even with just a little bit more goodwill on both sides. I think that the U.S. actually has a really incredible second mover opportunity here because, you know, we've, you know, people who work in America, live in America, Americans in the world has kind of been, you know, working with this reality where the U.S. is behind on one of the most exciting technologies out there. I think there's an opportunity to turn it into an advantage because in the time that passed, part of the frustration is that in so many other jurisdictions around the world, there is clarity or at least more clarity.

51:17There are regulators who work really closely with the industry in order to find constructive solutions. It doesn't mean that they don't enforce when need be, but at least they engage and provide that clarity. and the U.S. now has a bank of case studies. You know, the legislators here have a bank of case studies they could look around the world of what works best and what will work best for the U.S. So I really, it's really important. You know, I'm an eternal optimist and I really feel that in a few years with a bit more clarity, as the majority of Weep Emmer said in the conversation I had with him, we're going to be talking about what's next in a year from now.

51:55So I hope he's right. And since you bring it up, talking about legislation, and listen, this is just probably my own ignorance. I'm a New York finance guy. I'm not a D.C. policy wonk. Somebody walk me through what happens when you have an election. What's the status of the pending legislation right now around crypto? How is it likely to change going forward? And how do you guys feel that the pending legislation, the legislation that's about to potentially come to the floor, might affect the current state of play in the crypto space? So there's really two pieces of legislation out of dozens, if not over 100.

52:33There's been a lot of legislation introduced in the current Congress related to digital assets. But there's really kind of two that have taken center stage. One is what we call market structure. So that's really creating that comprehensive regulatory framework for digital assets. And it addresses the SEC's jurisdiction and the CFTC's jurisdiction. Because again, there's been a bit of a turf war between those two agencies. There's been regulation by enforcement out of both of those agencies, more so the SEC, not so much at the CFTC, but a little bit. And not having that regulatory clarity is critical.

53:16Businesses can't build, develop, innovate if they don't understand what the rules to the road are. That's why so many companies have just left the U.S. altogether over the past four years. So market structure is the legislation that really aims to solve that, bring that regulatory clarity, really define each agency's role, and set out the regulatory regime for cryptocurrency markets. So that bill passed the House with overwhelming bipartisan support this summer. The name of the bill was the Fit for the 21st Century Act. It has not been introduced in the Senate. You have different versions of market structure, like the Lummis-Jello Brand Responsible Financial Innovation Act being the main one.

54:00But because we don't have a companion bill and you still have to get it through the Senate, the Senate may have their own version. You have to reconcile that. You have to get support from the president. The president's already vetoed digital asset legislation this year. It's a long, there's just a lot that has to happen. And I think there's only 14 days on the congressional calendar this year. So I think the likelihood of all those things coming together is just unlikely. Not that it couldn't happen, but it's a long shot. The other bill is the stablecoin bill. So there's federal legislation that's been introduced in both the House and the Senate that would create a federal license for stablecoin issuers.

54:46The House and the Senate versions look a little bit different. So again, you have to reconcile those two bills, get them passed through both the House and the Senate and signed by the president. Those conversations are not dead. The negotiations between those stakeholders, House, Senate, the administration. So there is still work underway to try to get a stablecoin bill passed. In fact, I'll be in D.C. all next week talking about the stablecoin bill when they're back in session after the election. So that's forefront of the conversation. But again, we only have a couple weeks to get it done, and a lot has to happen in a short amount of time.

55:25And Congress has other things they need to do. They need to pass a defense, their NDAA, the Defense Authorization Act, as well as a funding bill before the calendar runs out. So it's probably more possible, Ash, that we will reconvene next year when we start the 119th congressional session, and we'll be starting all over again. And the congressional sessions are two years. So at the end of this year, that completes the congressional session. So any bills that were not passed, they die is probably a bad term, but all those bills die. They have to be reintroduced and start all over again from the very beginning in their legislative process.

56:09So this is an ongoing conversation. I would expect to continue talking about crypto legislation well into 2025 and 2026. But a lot of progress was made in these bills. I mean, we have really good, solid text. There's still some things to work out. But both these pieces of legislation have a lot of support to get done. it's always super helpful when you come on the show to remind me of how little i understand our legislative process this country and how complicated it is and i think probably most people don't really understand it uh yeah politic i was talking about logic and reason earlier and you know something i i always say is like logic and reason don't always persist in politics i think we you know the politicians like to over complicate things but getting something through congress and act of Congress is probably the hardest thing we will ever have to do as an industry.

57:02You have 535 members across both House and Senate. It's a lot to have to deal with. So it's not something that happens overnight. Any legislation takes years. And it's way more complex than it needs to be. Anyone else have any other thoughts on the legislation currently before Congress, and that might be before Congress in the coming months and years? Yeah, I think in the lame duck, if we had polymarket odds on it, it'd probably be less than 10 % of getting anything through, probably less than 1 % for market structure. The stablecoin legislation has a little bit of breath left in it, but I agree with Perianne.

57:38It's extremely unlikely. You're talking about, just for people who may not know, myself being one of them, you're talking about between November and January. Correct. Yeah, so just in that lame duck period, it's very unlikely that we'd see anything get through, You know, especially in the event that there is a Trump administration that's coming in in January, you know, that lame duck period looks quite contentious, in my opinion. So unlikely to see anything there. I think, you know, you said it well, Ash, and my fellow panelists did as well. It is very difficult to get bill. I mean, Congress is built for bills to die.

58:16And depending on which Congress we're talking about, the 118th, 117th, whatever, typically it's like less than 1 % of bills that get filed are passed. And in state legislatures, it's similar. It's a little bit better. You're ranging from like 4 % to 8%. But getting a bill passed is like rolling a boulder up a mountain. And so I think the industry five years ago thought, you know what, let's just continue to build. It's too hard to change things in D.C. And it's very clear over the last several years that our thinking on that has rightly shifted to we need to roll up our sleeves, get involved, not only with the political process, but with the policy process and education process as well.

59:02And things are not going to just get better on their own. They're only going to get better after extreme amounts of blood, sweat and tears. probably not the right analogy to use, but a lot of hard work. And I think the industry has done quite a bit over especially the last 12 months. And we have a very important upcoming year in the 119th Congress to ensure that these bills are on the right footing to be passed later in 2025 or early in 2026 is a pretty good window. Ken, any thoughts? I mean, I think that I'm a big believer that we tend to overestimate what can be done in a year and underestimate what can be done in 10 years.

59:49And we're, you know, we, especially in today's environment, you know, our heads kind of turn with headlines and we feel like everything is going to happen immediately. I just don't think that's the right approach. I agree with both Perianne and Lee. You know, we shouldn't expect things to happen immediately. but what I hope to see is a really dramatic change in the direction of things that will ultimately lead to better results very soon. Look, one way or another, Congress is going to have to deal with our industry and its legislation for a long time because in the US, some very basic pieces are still missing.

1:00:24Stablecoins like Perry and Manchin, like basic market structure concepts. You know, there's a whole other wave coming, right? DeFi, staking, block building, Web3, there's going to be a need here for evolving policy. If you look at Mika in Europe, for example, it doesn't cover DeFi, but at least the industry there feels like now they know what they need to do in order to not get sued. So I agree that it's not going to happen immediately, but I believe things are going to start happening much faster and that ultimately in a year from now, we're going to be in a much better place, I hope. Yeah, I'm just looking here at X.

1:01:04Here's a tweet coming out of RealClearPolitics just before we went live on this show. Trump projected to retake White House. Boy, that's a call, I have to say, as we sit here waiting, the American people, voters have a way of making fools out of talking heads and pollsters. So I guess we're going to have to see on that. Let's go around the horn here, just get final thoughts on this moment of uncertainty, where we are. Let's try and get a little bit of clarity from each of you. Perianne, first over to you, final thoughts, key takeaways. Is it possible to move that one year to the five-year? Can we show the five-year chart?

1:01:37On Bitcoin? Yeah, there we go. All right. So maybe let's just end on a really positive note. This is an extremely positive chart on the price of Bitcoin over the past five years. So Bitcoin operates in a four-year halving cycle, and the markets usually are four years. So we have a three-year cut pattern down there, and we've been basing for about six months, and we have multiple new all-time highs. This is an extremely, extremely bullish chart for the future of Bitcoin. Bitcoin typically has its bull run 12 to 18 months after the halving. So we are, or the best time to own Bitcoin is the 12 to 18 months is when the bull runs typically start.

1:02:27So we, the chart really supports that as well. So I think regard, I don't think Bitcoin cares if you're a Democrat or if you're a Republican. Bitcoin doesn't care about politics. Bitcoin shows up and it does the same thing it does every day. It runs the software. where we mine new Bitcoin every day and more people are learning about this technology and the more people that come in, the more the price goes up. So I'm excited to see where Bitcoin's gonna go regardless of who wins. And the charts show us a very, very bright future. Well, that's very well said, Perianne. But you do, of course, bring out my internal desire to always bring balance to the conversation.

1:03:07If you bought in November of 21, around 65, You got absolutely whacked if you sold in 2022 when it lost 75 % of its value. Got to hodl. Number one rule of Bitcoin, hodl. Lee, over to you. Yeah, I love the quote that Ken brought up earlier. Bill Gates said, I think most popularized this phrase that we underestimate what we can do in one year and underestimate what we can do in five. And so I really think that's the name of the game. We have exciting times ahead for the digital assets industry. And the next 24 hours, I think, is bigger than just the digital assets industry. It's democracy in America.

1:03:58And let's hope and pray for a peaceful transition of power to either a Harris or Trump administration in January and some clarity in the next, say, week as to what happens in this election. I think we've got certainly bigger problems ahead of us if information is twisted and if things are not clear to the American people and transparency isn't at the forefront. And it's such an important point for Bitcoin, too. I mean, Bitcoin is extremely, it's the quintessential transparent asset. And that's exactly what we need in our democracy right now as well. It's just people have to trust the process. And you can certainly trust Bitcoin because you can see the code and you can see the blocks being formed.

1:04:48And it's extremely sort of telling. Another point to the adoption curve that we're seeing, A16Z put out an incredible survey that showed global wallet adoption over the last year, proceeding at the same pace as the adoption of the internet. And I think that is profound. And we are still in early days. People are going to have wallets embedded in all sorts of software. I mean, we're already seeing AI transacting in wallets on Coinbase's base platform. And last thing I'll say about the election in specific, is you've got all sorts of great initiatives going on, you know, staying with crypto, the Bitcoin Voter Project.

1:05:33There are people galvanizing and activating the digital asset voter. You know, Perianne's survey demonstrated that in its full extent. And yeah, it's exciting to see. And, you know, I'll be at home watching, you know, with my wife and eating some popcorn. It's going to be an exciting night. And hopefully by midnight, we'll have at least some sort of idea where this thing is headed. Don't bet on it, Lee. I know, right? Well, we may underestimate what we can do in a year. We should never underestimate what we can do in an hour. This has been a great conversation. Amazing debut appearance by you, Lee.

1:06:08I'm sure he'll be coming back soon. Ken, I'm going to leave this over to you to take us out. Final thoughts, key takeaways. Well, I guess as the guy with an accent and a kh in his name, which may or may not indicate I wasn't born here, I'll repeat to the point I said in the beginning. The world is watching. The world is watching not just for crypto. I completely agree with Lee. This is much bigger than that. It's about democracy. It's about executing your vote. And it's also about understanding whatever the results are, that we're all in this together. We're neighbors. We're communities. We need to continue working together.

1:06:43That nonpartisan spirit is, to me, the most important thing the crypto industry needs to stick to as it continues its efforts after the election, I believe we're going to have a much more receptive audience and we're going to see, we're going to have much more constructive conversations. We're going to see progress. Thanks so much, Ash. It was great to be here. And speaking of community, someday you're going to have to teach me how to take the sixth train to Bushwick. I think I get that. I already added to my to-do list, make sure Ash sees the inside of a bar in Bushwick. I think we can all agree on that.

1:07:17Perry and Han Lee, thanks for joining us. This has been a Great conversation, obviously, on an important day in American history. That's it for now. Chris Bullock will be back with his TA show at 1 p.m. Eastern time today to walk you through all the price action. Make sure to tune in. I'll be back tomorrow with the latest crypto distillery. And don't forget, tickets are now up for sale for the in-person crypto gathering in Miami. Head over to realvision.com forward slash CG2025. That's realvision.com forward slash CG2025 to get yours. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. See you all soon.

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