Data as an Emerging Asset Class

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1:24And now to the top analysis of today's markets.

1:33I have something special that I want to talk to you about today. I just want to speak from the heart for a minute about this. You guys know that Real Vision is more than just a job for me. It's a huge part of my life. It's an honor to get to do this, to get to create content, and to interact with all of you. One of the amazing things about working at Real Vision is that we are all constantly forcing ourselves to grow, always experimenting with new things. This is one of them that I want to talk to you about today. We've all been blown away by the response to Raoul's video, the past, present, and future of Real Vision.

2:03If you're a Real Vision member and you haven't seen it yet, go check it out on the platform. It's called the past, present, and future of Real Vision. This is about to be the future of our platform, and we want to bring you into the conversation. Talking of which, let me read a couple of comments from Real Vision members on this video already. The first comes to us from Kevin K. Couldn't be more proud of all the innovation and risks RV is taking in order to be a leader. Will be a lifelong RVer. Thank you, Kevin. We appreciate that. From contributor David S., it makes my head spin. Real Vision is going mission exponential.

2:37Always appreciate your feedback, DLS. So this is what we're doing right now, and I want to walk you through every day we're going to feature a new feature here on Real Vision, talking about what's happening on the Real Vision platform. Today, what I want to talk to you about is networking. This is about the ability to connect between Real Vision members and through Real Vision staff with Real Vision members. This is something that I think is going to be just incredibly useful and incredibly powerful. Right now on the platform, we've got a kind of traditional comment system where you can go and post comments, of course, on our videos.

3:09But under the new system, it's going to be much more interactive. There's going to be notifications. I think this is going to facilitate the conversation on Real Vision, which is really what matters most to us. getting the network engaged, getting our members engaged in the conversation, some really cool functionality coming there soon. And as I said, for the rest of the week, we're going to be featuring a new feature every day to tell you about what's coming. Here's why this all matters to you. Prices at Real Vision, like so many other things in our economy, are about to go up. If you're already a Real Vision member, you can lock in your current membership at 50 % off, or Better yet, if you're so inclined, level up to the next level before July 24th.

3:50Here's where you can go to check out all of this. You can get all the details, figure out which level is best for you. Realvision.com forward slash level up, all lowercase. That's realvision.com forward slash level up, all lowercase. Please go check it out on the platform now. Get the information about what's happening at Real Vision. I think you're going to find it really cool. I know that I do. When change comes, opportunity abounds. We're about to enter a period of the fastest pace of technological change in all human history. Something we refer to as the exponential age. And Real Vision is going to be your guide to this incredible future.

4:38Michael Clark, thank you so much for joining us here on Real Vision. How are you today? Very good, and it's a real pleasure to be here. Honestly, it's a real thrill, I have to say. It's a thrill for me too, and I am deeply excited about the conversation we are about to have, because you know, and all the viewers out there know, that at Real Vision, we're just deeply obsessed with the exponential age, with this profound shift that technology is taking us through that we're only at the beginning of right now and we're only at the beginning of understanding the implications of it and central to my thinking about the exponential age and i know a lot of people out there share this thinking is information the role of information the role of data and essentially one of my key thoughts is that you know how do we characterize the exponential age it's about the emergence of some kind of unified digital physical field where information becomes a part of the world around us and before I get ahead of myself we are going to get into all of that and more data is what we are here to talk about because data is your big obsession so let's kind of rewind back to the beginning let's start right at the beginning tell the viewers a little bit about yourself about the adventure you've been on because i know it's a really interesting one that winds through for example open banking how you came to this obsession with data and then we'll really get into it your big thesis and what you think is going on but first yeah tell us a bit about you it's really eclectic so i think like anybody in an exponential age or anything innovative they've had an eclectic background and I'm different.

6:25So I've been lucky. I worked across all my career from acquisition all the way through to manage. So I chose to come from industry, not consulting, which I think broadened my horizon. But then there was always a common thread, which was the role of data. It was almost following me around everywhere like a bad penny. I was lucky to be involved in open banking from the very beginning, helping write strategies for CMA9 banks, but then also then building open banking products, as well as then working on really really large transformations blockchain all the cutting edge technologies but like i said data was a common thread throughout all of that story and it's leading us to the conversation we're about to have today yeah data has been the thread that's woven through so much of what you've done including with open banking tell us then about and this is a challenge this is one of those tricky questions give us your core thesis in a nutshell why is data so important why are you so obsessed with it what's happening now and where is it taking us i think danger big idea and then we'll dive in so i think i think you know the the big idea is that data is becoming liquidity data in essence is becoming owned by people um and will become the next currency of our time It will become one of the most dominant things in our lifetime and is already on that trajectory.

7:48You know, the exponential age is the name of this, and that's what we're living in. Six months ago, nobody had heard of ChatGPT. All of a sudden, it's part of everyday conversation. So my big thesis is that data will become a currency, and it will become owned by the very people that create it, generate it, and use it, which will fundamentally change everything that we know. yeah and i love this idea about data becoming a currency data essentially becoming its own form of value and that just taps so deeply into this idea that i keep coming back to when i write about the exponential age when i talk about it on real vision something strange is happening to information the nature of information what information is feels to me fundamentally to be changing and that change underpins so much of what we talk about when it comes to the emergence of the exponential age.

8:44So there's our big thesis. Something fundamentally is changing when it comes to the nature of information and it takes us to a place where information becomes value. Information becomes currency. I might even say information becomes money. I don't know if you would agree with that. Let's see if we can get to that place and if we can get to agreement on it. there's our big picture. Now I just want to rewind and go through step by step how we get to that place. And I think I'm right in saying that you would agree with me that it all starts in where we're at now, which is the beginnings of an incredible explosion in data volumes.

9:28And people know that this is going on. I think the man in the street and woman in the street knows this is happening but i don't think they understand the extent of it the mind-boggling extent of it or what's driving it really so talk us through that talk us through this huge explosion in data volumes we're seeing now why that's important um i think what's happening is that we're seeing data that we've never seen before in our lives um non-verbal data is now becoming real it's becoming a digital asset that none of us in our lifetime have ever seen as human beings we've we've never been exposed to it we we interact as people every single day we operate with non-verbal cues and so on but it's always been something that's ubiquitous it's something that is just makes us human what apple did two weeks ago is they made a new channel and they made data something that effectively is now visible, is now something that we can store and we can link into human emotion and connect the dots.

10:35You know, you hear statistics of, you know, hundreds and hundreds of zettabytes of data by a certain date, but the reality is we're now living in a world where we're going to create around about maybe 74 ,000 zettabytes of data in huge amounts of time. And, you know, this is an age that none of us ever imagined possible yeah yeah and i i think there's a lot going on even in that because as you say you know this data explosion i mean to my mind it has two primary dimensions first as you talked about there's radically new forms of data like information sorry like emotional data you know facial recognition data mood data voice recognition data and and kind of mood patterns in voice just incredible new forms of data then there's the sheer volume you know and if you look at the id like like you said sort of the the landmark iconic forecast made by the international data corporation the idc you know and they trot it's trotted out all the time including by me in the past 175 um zettabytes of data by 2025 which is which is which is a huge huge volume When you think that one zettabyte of data, my understanding is, would take like 5 million years or something to download on a household super fast broadband connection.

12:00But there are people like Tim Davies, who we've seen on Real Vision in years past, who believe that that is a massive underestimate. And that, as you said, there will be tens of thousands of zettabytes of data by 2025, by 2030. and the crucial thing i think for people to realize right is that it's machines making this data it's you know we're used to a world where people make data it's going to be machines and objects and buildings making the data now right yeah correct and tim and i have talked about this often ironically and this is how i'm on this podcast is through my relationship with tim you know the the statistics the whole on of anticipated this data is coming from so many different devices iot devices internet of things headsets wearables this data is becoming all around us completely ubiquitous and data that we've never ever touched and seen and some of the numbers in tim's reports which are amazing by the way and i highly recommend them even they only scratch the surface of the world that we're heading into, which I think is going to take many people by surprise, which is kind of the basis of the reason the thesis exists and the conversations I'm having with regulators and businesses around the world is that, look, this is no longer something you store in a database.

13:23This is actually something that's going to be living and breathing and organic. And it's going to be something that's going to be driving economies. Hey, everyone, we're going to take a quick break right now to hear a word from our partners. We'll be right back with more of the day's top analysis on the Real Vision Daily Briefing.

13:43Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I just think it's so interesting and it's profoundly consequential the way so much of the world around us and so many objects and artifacts in the world around us will become creators of data in ways that people, most people just aren't thinking about right now. In a world of electric cars and then autonomous vehicles, every car becomes a rolling supercomputer that just streams this tsunami of data about the physical environment. In a world where Amazon are adding like a thousand robots a day to their warehouses, Amazon fulfillment centers and that whole infrastructure, again, just streams this tsunami of data constantly.

14:29and you end up with just absolutely monumental data volumes where do we get to eventually with with the you know connected objects and the internet of things it feels to me that we're approach you know we're heading towards a world where just everything is connected to everything else is that fair yeah i think so i think i think um i always use the joke that we'll all become nodes um because all of us are generating huge amounts of data um and that's where we're going to end up we're going to end up where data is going to be coming like a mist wrapped around us and it's going to be ubiquitous always on we'll connect to it through wallets um you know this is the world we're heading to where it's even going to drive markets um and and honestly when when you speak to governments you speak to businesses they are i guess struggling to keep pace with the changes that are among us and i think you know what's what's going to be coming is already here and is starting to become found um and i think you know the world we're just literally scratching the surface david around where this is all heading yeah yeah right because there's you know as you've said to me i think before you know a lot of the conversation becomes about sort of simple forms of data processing and data storage but that's actually just a a fraction of the conversation here when you have volumes at this scale and when you have the the physical environment as a kind of super network of networks ed with constantly streaming data the nature of data changes and the relationship between the physical world and information changes and that brings us I think to the big second stage because what is the role that AI plays in all of this when we have this super network this you know autonomous vehicles robots buildings people with wearable devices all connected to one another all streaming data all the time what role does AI start to play in that world so i think ai will transition us um to effectively a world where we will move away from acquiring knowledge to using knowledge to make decisions i think ai will become the augmented worker um and that will basically serve up the knowledge that people need to use to take action and decisions that and we and you know we hear the talk about ai taking people's jobs um but the reality is um you know ai is actually going to be augmented and become an employee of the organization yeah yeah and i mean it's fair to say right that this has to if you have data volumes at this scale this has to happen only ai can handle data volumes at that scale correct um even if we think about we'll be moving avatars and visuals um that will effectively do that so you know even in 5g world we'll be moving not just zeros and ones it'll be images of people avatars huge volumes of data that no human will ever be able to read um and our new knowledge worker unfortunately for the world we're moving we have to be mindful and agree on is going to be not a human it's going to be an artificial intelligence machine that is going out there and gathering the insight that a marketing agency would have done a few years ago is now being done by a machine yeah and then and then the human element is well what decisions do i need to make on this data and ultimately how am i going to use that to drive my business forward or if you're a government how am i going to use this data to make serious decisions if i want to change the direction of my country or my city for the system for my citizens or the people that inhabit society yeah right i mean it's exactly and i think ai as the as the new kind of fundamental knowledge worker is just such a profound shift and it's one that you know it's impossible for anyone to get their head around right now we're not we're not ready for it it's impossible for us to fully conceptualize what that world looks like but time and again when i write about the exponential age when I write about these big shifts that are coming, I find myself writing about the way information flows are weaving themselves through everything, including everything in the physical environment, and the way that necessitates a layer of intelligence.

19:01And it can only be artificial intelligence over everything. And that leads me to that fundamental characterization that I talked about at the top of the show you know what is the exponential age it's about the it's about a strange new merging of information and the physical world the digital space and the physical space information almost becomes a new kind of physical property intelligence almost becomes something akin to a new kind of energy that does a form of infrastructure that does work on all that information i mean is that these are just deep deep profound shifts and that's why i think your focus on data is so important you know what the big example i love to give is the way that you know if we build a renewable network uh based on wind over and high network constant streaming data all the time the only way which

20:04the only way we manage that energy network via artificial intelligence you know so data ai become fundamental to the production even just of energy which is the foundation of everything right yeah i agree um and ultimately that will also become how we manage day-to-day living even if you look at 6g networks that are positioned for 10 years time they are all going to be built with ai from the ground up self-regulating managing energy distribution all of these aspects are going to be governed and changing the world as we know it so you're absolutely right um all of this is going to power a whole new economy and a whole new way of living and data's at the center um i often use the term smart economies and ultimately that's the basis of all of this.

20:52And data is just one of those components that are going to make this work. Yeah, I should say, I know viewers will hear a little background noise from your end, and that's because, you know, you very kindly agreed to join us from a conference at which you've just given a keynote on these very subjects. So, you know, I know I'm battling, I have to be honest with the viewers, I'm battling battery issues and I'm battling a room for the people at a seamless event. so i'm hoping and praying my battery lasts this is this is how um yeah this is how this is how fresh the insight are you know you're fresh from the stage to real vision to talk about this and it is deeply appreciated so i'm going to tell you this right now i'm going to advise you if i lose you i will be back in five minutes i promise yeah yeah you'll be back back you'll be back If only you had an AI to manage your laptop battery.

21:45So we've got this super network of networks. We've got a network of networked physical environment of buildings, autonomous vehicles, people, objects, streaming relentless tsunamis of data at us. The role that AI is playing is as a form of infrastructure, sort of managing those information flows, drawing insight out of them that we can use or often the AI will just simply autonomously use that insight to for example manage the energy grid or manage you know supply chains you'll have factory robots talking to autonomous vehicles about delivery times and about you know all of that kind of stuff a networked world on a scale that is hard to fully conceptualize now we're going to take another quick break to hear a word from our partners.

22:39We'll be right back with more of the day's top analysis on the Real Vision Daily Briefing.

22:47Before we move on to the big next stage, you know, there's so much hype right now and so much conversation about generative AI in particular. Does that play a particular role here in data creation and in the management of the data? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Look, the AI story is fascinating because without data, there is no generative AI. There is no AI in the first place. There's no models to operate on. There's nothing that can actually be materialized. I think generative AI, as we know it to be getting closer to the predicted singularity, will generate its own data for its own purposes and its own use cases.

23:30So I think, yes, generative AI plays a role. We're not quite there yet. Starting to emerge, the conversations are happening. But absolutely, it'll be a cornerstone to it because ultimately it'll be self-sustaining. It will be consuming its own data, but also consuming data from ecosystems that other AI agents or even communities of people in practice are going to be creating. All of these elements form the basis of what are going to power next generation intelligence. Data will be the cornerstone of that. And AI in harmony, in essence, is, I'm going to use the word, and it's taken me this long to use it, metaverse and so on, doesn't exist without AI and data.

24:11Without it, there is no metaverse, and there is no virtual reality, and there is nothing in between. So that's why all of this is so critical. And those two elements, the AI component and the data component, are going to transform everything that we've known yeah and this i mean and of course we're going to get on towards the end to dive in a little bit into how this journey and how this epic story you're telling is investable you know what investors out there can do about it but you've mentioned the word metaverse we had to get there eventually that does bring me on to the big third step because yeah as i said we've got this we've got this epic super network in the physical environment and streaming data we've got ai managing all that data but then this huge third component steps into the story and that is the emergence of virtual worlds simulations of the metaverse as we were talking about like you know 21 22 how does what role does this play how is this let's just set the scene here how is this connected to data um and yeah why is data an important part of the emergence of virtual worlds and the metaverse and simulations so i i'm gonna give a plug for my book now because the book is called the augmented world and ultimately what apple did as i said at the start at the top of the hour is that they created the next channel and it won't be in my view yes virtual reality will have a place because it will give us the opportunity to go to new areas and new spaces maybe before we go there so hong kong airport recently just built an entire metaverse of the airport for example um but actually what will supercharge this whole world is augmented reality um because it'll be the augmented and the shifting between the real world and the physical world in our own realities that'll actually make all of this come to life and make the metaverse a real thing in the real world.

26:10I don't think we'll be sitting in our rooms with big headsets on like Black Mirror. I think those days are not going to happen. Yes, they have their place. We may do meetings in this space. We may play games. But the reality is it's the glasses and the blending of the digital world with the physical world is what's going to make all this real. And you ask why data is important because data is the thing that brings all of this to life. Data and information is being overlaid onto the real world. And it's ultimately this is what we will interact with as human beings. Gone are the days where I will have to wander around a supermarket and wonder where things are because digital wayfinding will tell me the way.

26:44Cities will be geo-fenced. And effectively, I will walk into a city and they will know it's me because the data will be from where I left it. And the augmented reality elements will navigate me around spaces. So my personal data, the data I carry me, my nonverbal data, the verbal data, all of this will be transformed into virtual augmented experiences. So this is the bit that no one is talking about. which in essence is the whole thing that powers this new world that we're going to be operating in is data and ai will be the facilitator of that data um i know even the role of digital wallets in terms of how we store that data so you know to answer your question i think it's the engine that's actually going to power all of these virtual physical worlds be it digital twins be it virtual cities or even our augmented world is all going to be personalized is all going to be driven is be driven by all of this yeah yeah i mean i think i think that's so true and you know i i think the a big part of the story with with virtual worlds and with the metaverse is we just saw this incredible wave of hype in 2020 and 2021 and obviously you know everything that transpired with facebook and the name change and all of that and that engendered an inevitable backlash which we're still amid and people have given themselves permission often to be like oh the metaverse that was all like a load of rubbish like I don't need to pay any attention to that it was all a load of hype it was all just a load of kids in Roblox or Fortnite and it's such a gravely mistaken point of view like I understand where it comes from and I can understand how it can seem that way if you're not paying close attention you know I get that that's been the big narrative and it's easy to swallow it but I would just really encourage people for example to look at what's happening now with Nvidia's omniverse technology where they're working for example with BMW to build simulations in virtual space of entire BMW factories allowing BMW to just transform the way they operate utterly you know i mean if you listen to bmw they'll tell you that a huge part of their process and a huge challenge for them is constant reconfiguration of their factories around new car models and personalized car models and this and that they're constantly reconfiguring factories and it takes days and it's really painful now they can do those reconfigurations in virtual space they can simulate the entire factory test reconfigurations in the simulation get it right and then roll it out and that is just if you listen to them utterly transformative and they're building a big like electric car factory in hungary now and they're just going to stimulate the entire the entire factory will have a kind of digital twin um that they'll use to manage the physical factory and we're going to see more and more and more of that via nvidia's omniverse and via other uh you know forms of virtual space and exactly the same data is the engine of it all the reason they simulate the fact because they've connected at every part of it every part of it is breathing data and they use that data to build a virtual model factory in virtual space that is like profoundly useful.

30:09So David, the virtual space is also given the ability to train people before the factory is even built. So the power of this is, look, it takes years to build a factory, even retool one. So imagine I can now personalize that whole training experience, regardless of level of experience. And using nonverbal data, I can understand if you didn't understand a particular piece of equipment, something didn't resonate with you. maybe there's fear so all of a sudden now i'm using non-verbal data inside a meta environment to actually drive personalized training and engagement so even the things that bmw have done will be ultimately transformed by then making them augmented because now me as a human i'm embedded into the inter-virtual spaces um and i can engage with things even it's personal no matter my learning style my learning skill even language will be translated into my eye light so not even language will be a barrier i can engage with maybe foreign workers at a factory that is completely virtual or i can even bring experts teleported into my environment through holographic projections which by the way is already happening and again all fueled by data right right yeah and i i just think the profound usefulness of these virtual spaces and these simulations is is deeply underestimated right now and that and that is why is one of the reasons why this idea that like oh the metaverse like i can forget about that it was all a load of hype is just so profoundly mistaken but you know you have i mean amazon are using omniverse to simulate their fulfillment centers like kroger's i think it is in the us is using omniverse to simulate retail spaces and customer flows around retail spaces and then as you say once you can simulate these environments you can do all kinds of stuff in them you exactly as you say you can train your you can reconfigure physical spaces you can train human beings all of that kind of stuff it in the end where does this head it feels to me that this super network of connected objects allows us to build a form of mirror world like a one-to-one simulation of essentially the entire world in virtual space like is that is that the long-term direction of travel so i've been kicked out i think so i i think david you know everything is is is radically going to change even with travel our life um the whole data story is profound in in many different ways um so yeah i i think you know we're on the cusp of something that we couldn't have imagined

32:54so you're breaking up sorry that's why i didn't cover that very well no no no problem i know yeah i can hear i can hear a little bit of a commotion going on back there um so like we we talked about the emergence of this mirror world you know worlds in virtual space fueled by this endless tsunami of data. Let's get to, as I said, to the business end of your thesis, which is really about data becoming a new form of value, data becoming, I think it's fair to say currency. I don't know if you would agree with me about data becoming a form of money. I don't know if that pushes it too far, but talk us through your central ideas here.

33:36How does this happen in the world we've described? Like we've set the scene. How does this now play out? So I think, no, I'm comfortable. I can basically dig into this a bit more. So I think, honestly, one of the interesting things that's come out of the Web3 world is the whole concept of tokenization, where data will become an asset. So in essence, data will become a token. So we're already seeing Web3 companies who are turning data into tokens and trading them in smart contracts. So data itself will become tokenized like any other asset that's happening right now. To give you an idea, even today, so I'm at the Seamless event today.

34:14That's the event I was keynoting at today. And I literally, just before this call, had a conversation with someone building a data exchange where they're using smart contracts to move data around to save regulators with their reporting. So they're now tapping into Web3 technology to turn data into something that can be utilized and distributed. So in essence, whereas people start to physically own their own data, I will be trading it with you to allow you to use it. So let me give you a real world example to bring this to life. Today, I freely give my data away to credit check me. In the future, I might say, well, actually, I'll lend you my data for this credit check.

34:53And if you want any more data from me, you need to pay me through my smart contract. And my data is tokenized and has a time of how long I'm going to lend that data to you for. and taking this even further maybe a data trust is managing that data for me because actually now my bank or amazon has now become a data trust because now i own my own data guess what i'm not going to own it myself i'm going to give it to someone that i trust who's going to look after for me like a custodian um in the traditional banking world that's going to be my fiduciary and is going to manage all my data as an asset in a portfolio that's effectively going to be managed and this is the world that we're heading to and all of this is not by accident.

35:35It's these combinations of technologies, the combinations of the Web3 world is basically lifting data up into a first-class citizen again, probably for the first time in our lifetime where it will become a traded currency and there are so many different players. I know we're going to come on to investing a bit later, but there are so many organizations now and technology companies emerging who are playing a role in all these different facets we're making this data item move like a currency across a virtual layer and it's basically going to become one of the strongest liquidity items that we've seen i mean it's mind-blowing and the so think of me as a consumer the the value of the data i have right is is is what it's because it's behavioral data about you know and taste data and preference data and identity data that tells organizations who I am and what I like, what I bought in the past, what I've done in the past, what I'm interested in.

36:35Is that the kind of data you're talking about that will be valuable to, you know, businesses out there that will essentially pay me for my data? Is that the big picture here or is that just one part of what we're talking about? I think it's one part. Yes, that is definitely one use case because today we just give it away freely right you know all jokes considering i'll go on to facebook and i'll i'll give my data away to see what i look like when i'm 60. no one really understands that the terms and conditions of giving your data away for that picture is giving someone access to your data to do all sorts with from an advertising and so on so yes there's the taking the data back and putting into my hand as a consumer and me deciding how i'm going to use that and how i'm going to spend it that's definitely one use case.

37:18The second use case is I use my data to generate experiences and environments and virtual spaces. So companies will reach out to you because your data is valuable. And I think this is an important topic when we talk about data value. And now Tim and I have talked about this a lot from Holdon. In the sense of, I know he talks about data storage and it's running out and we need to only keep what's important. But then as you start digging down that rabbit hole, not all data is equal. So some data will be valuable in utility and some data will be value in exchange. And not all data will be valuable in the same environment because A, there's probably too much of it.

37:56So the value, it's like diamond, the value of that data is worthless to me because there's too much of it. It's like water. Whereas in some environments, data is so scarce, that same data set all of a sudden now is valuable to that environment. So we will start to see new value systems for data. We will see so many different use cases where data which was previously freely available is no longer in people's control other than mine as the consumer. So all the experiences we take for granted, all the uses of data that's created is all of a sudden going to become an item of scarcity. Even though it's in abundance, its scarcity will be driven by the people that own it.

38:33So you have the aspect of this that's sort of like my personal data, behavioral data, purchase history taste and preference data media consumption all of that is valuable to third party organizations basically you want to sell me stuff and they're going to start and I will start to have ways to control that data to own that data and draw value from it to essentially license it or sell it to third parties and I'm fascinated by the other big dimension of this you talked about which is if we're saying that virtual worlds and virtual spaces are fueled by data, you know, they're constructed out of data essentially, then perhaps my data or the data my house is creating or the data all the houses on my street are creating or whatever it is, are needed to help fuel a simulation or a virtual world in virtual space.

39:29And you'll have organizations essentially saying, you know, let me use your data as the building blocks of the virtual of the simulation or the virtual space I want to construct. Have I got that right? Is that? That's absolutely and this is a conversation I have with customers all the time is that look, everybody talks about digital twins. There's this concept of a connected digital twin where I can bind twins to solve a problem. But let's be honest, not every business in the world is going to create a digital twin. The reality is though, they may look to people like you and I to say, well, actually I need your data to finish off my digital twin because I'm trying to solve this particular problem and your data would be useful or if you're a business maybe you hold transactional data for example so maybe transactional data might be interesting to someone who's trying to run scenarios maybe for a future city for example they're trying to understand the influx of people coming into more urban areas so what does that mean for the financial system so you may be a bank you may be a financial institution and I can give you my data as an API.

40:30So I'll give you that API and then you can, I'll charge you for it. And then you can then use that within your simulation. So what we're starting to see is almost like new economies emerge based on the data that businesses just hold anyway, where they can now turn that into an API. They can give it to an organization. And all of a sudden it's now a new revenue line. Eventually it becomes a new business. so that's either for the business angle or for the consumer they're playing an active part in all of this in terms of their contributions in terms of maybe helping organizations and even maybe it doesn't have to be you know a business a commercial business it could be a public sector a public service so it could be a city that's creating a virtual version of itself to understand or solve a particular public problem and that me as an individual i may want to be part of that which then speaks to the power of community and the role of your data in DAOs and so on.