ETH Weakness: Time to Rotate? | Rekt Vision

27:59So we're kind of like hitting like, like what, 35 to 50 people in total. And they'd spent north of like$22 billion to acquire those people. So now you're like, okay, they're taking a big bet. They better come up with something good. And granted, we need to give them a bit more time to cook, right? So whatever that model might be. What you don't want to see is three of their key hires leave two weeks within joining. And that's what we saw this week. Well, this is like two salads, right? Where did they leave? They left. And there are many reasons why they might have left. I don't know. I haven't spoken to them.

28:39But the rumor that's been floating around consistently is like they weren't enthused or inspired by the mission that they were going for. And a lot of them have either gone back to OpenAI or been poached by our boy Elon Musk for XAI. So the reverse is happening. Yeah. More difficult to play. i mean you have tesla but obviously has several different vehicles it feels like now where with with um where he's like using ai so it's more difficult to play elon's ai bets it feels like if you were in terms of the public ways to play right now are you basically saying feel strongest with what google's been doing i know nvidia had earnings this week and it was it was mixed strong earnings but maybe uncertain outlook yeah um what's your favorite play let's say in terms of traits or is that more difficult to judge?

29:27Yeah. So my basket is NVIDIA, Google and Tesla. And those are the, I've stack ranked that as if we would do crypto majors. So NVIDIA is your BTC, Google's your ETH and Solana is the Tesla bet. That's basically how I'm reading it. And just to kind of comment on the Tesla point, I actually think Elon's other companies, like the robots that he's building under Tesla, like all his SpaceX stuff, the satellites that he's releasing via Starlink. You know, we've seen a lot of the Starship launches this week as well. All of that is going to combine it in a wonderful way. Why? Because it's feeding and distributing data and data is all that matters when it comes to how good your AI model is right now.

30:13If you look at any conversation at top tier AI teams right now, it's not like how much money do I have to train the model? It's always like, what data do I use? because they've already exhausted all the internet's data already. So now they're trying to figure out how they can create better data, data that can create better models and features. And that's all that matters right now. And Tesla's pretty well wound up right now. And obviously all his other companies aren't yet public, but that's the main way to play it. And I guess your controversial take is, I mean, obviously all the Mag 7 have bounced back pretty well since April.

30:46But is Apple looking the most precarious here? Okay. So here's my hot take. I think Apple's actually a good buy over the next six months. Well, actually, over the next couple of weeks, because you've got Tech-tember coming up. September's tech month or whatever, right? I'm kind of looking at this as like the bottom of Apple for AI, because I think they're going to make a move, a serious move within the next six months. And the serious move, if I had to guess, would be one of the following. The most unlikely. Okay, right. The most unlikely I was going to say is they launched their own base model.

31:25I don't think that's happening. The talent isn't there. Number two is exactly what you just said, Mando. They acquire someone. Now, the question is, who do they acquire? There's not many candidates that they could kind of go for. The one that's been rumored is perplexity. Perplexity doesn't have a base model, but who cares? And then the third guess, and this is slightly long term, is Apple doesn't really play at the complex hardware level. Sure, they make their own phones and all that kind of stuff, but they have always been about what can give you the best aesthetics and user kind of interface.

32:00What's the best product experience? What makes people be like, wow, I love Apple. Like I just said it earlier, right? Google has the best model. So why am I still using OpenAI? Why do I still have my iPhone? Why don't I just throw it away and get Android? Because there's a stickiness about it. All my friends are using it, right? And they're so good at that. And I think it would be a bad bet to bet against Apple nailing it for the AI stuff. And no one's nailed it at the consumer AI level. They've nailed the models, the nerdy stuff, the NVIDIA GPUs, but no one's really nailed the app experience yet.

32:31And I bet Apple might. Can I peel that back a little bit? Because I know you also have the view that we're going to really change our interfaces quite a lot. Like you think the age of the browser is over, the age of just your standard phone might be over. And I agree with you, but Apple probably has a strength. I mean, they tried with the VR headset, so it hasn't really gone anywhere. But what is the hardware you think of the future? Is it too early to tell? Dude, that is a literal trillion dollar question. If I knew that, I'd be a rich man. Yeah, I know. That's a good question. Okay, so Josh, my co-host of Limitless, and I have gone back and forth on this before.

33:17Here's where we land, and I'll summarize it. It's going to be a new form factor, a new hardware device. It's not going to be your cell phone, okay? It's going to have cameras all over it. It's going to have some form of hearing functionality all over it. And it's going to be subtle. So it's not going to be Google Glass. You're not going to look like you're 30 years in the future or whatever, 100 years in the future in a spaceship. It's going to be something a little more subtle. Maybe it's a little disc that sits on your desk or can sit in your pocket. I can hear and see anything. Obviously, if it sits in your pocket, it's not going to see anything, but you get the vibe that I'm going.

33:58Maybe it's an AirBud that has cameras, you know, like these AirPods, right? It's going to be something like that. And the reason why I say that is it needs to have more sensory information than just words. It can't just listen to you. It needs to be able to read in your mind. It needs to be able to plug into all of your LLM conversations, all that kind of stuff. That doesn't get satisfied by a phone. This is incredibly clunky. And the other point is it needs to feed you information in real time. So it needs to be super accessible. That's why I think it's going to be some kind of visual element.

34:30That's the bet that meta is taking by the way um they're rumored to be announcing their new ai glasses that are going to cost 800 which is a lot cheaper than most people thought it's cheaper than an iphone um next month right whereas open ai glasses uh taking i always find the glasses like i i like what you're but i feel it needs to look more like a like a whoop or an aura ring and a glass That's what I kind of feel like. Well, he's launching two products. You have the glasses and this motion sensor wristband that goes around you. And you can make subtle gestures with your fingers that intuitively change the interface on your glasses.

35:12So you can have your hands in your pocket and still be able to access a conversation or a notification whilst I'm having a conversation with you in real life, Mando, which is a pretty insane thing to say. Then again, I don't really see everyone wearing glasses suddenly. all of the time. And that's a huge fashion thing and all that kind of stuff. So I agree with you. It's going to be something more subtle. But just to give folks an idea of where it's going, and I have kind of strong conviction that this is going to be the end form factor, and end being like 50 to 100 years, maybe even sooner. It's chips in your brain.

35:46That's literally what it is. It's what Neuralink is building. It's what Sam Altman and OpenAI I just invested in another company. I think it's called Merge. That's literally doing the same thing. It's a Neuralink competitor. That's what it all ends up, right? You don't need to pick up a device. You just think of something and it happens. Yes, that's exactly it, right? So what the middle form factor looks like over the next 50 years, I have no idea, but I think it's gonna be something a little more sleek. Yeah, I've gone down that rabbit hole a little bit with all the gene modification and the idea of having like bionic organs and you can create superhumans pretty quickly, it feels like.

36:25Anyway, we won't go down that just yet. Let's kind of bring it back to some of the other stuff that you spoke about last week, because I think we just went about 50 years in the future. Let's bring it back to what's busy right now. Last time we spoke, we spoke about prediction markets and that's bringing it back to crypto. That's probably been the biggest trend in DGEN crypto, I think, over the last two weeks. You've seen a number of on-chain traders on Solana go from about 8 million to 1 million. So it dropped about 80%. And at the same time, that hasn't really affected. I mean, Solana is doing okay, even with that happening.

36:57But the main thing that people are talking about, again, right now is prediction markets. We've seen Polymarket and Kalshi both do big deals, either with exchanges or sportsbooks recently. And in terms of mindshare, it's actually overtaken from means over the last two to three weeks. What's your view? Is the hype justified, do you think? Or do you think people are going to be slightly disappointed in the end result here? Do you think prediction markets are going to be as big as people think? Do I think prediction markets are going to be as big as people think? Yes, but it's going to take way longer than what people are making it out to be.

37:36So the hype isn't justified in the near term, but it's justified over the long term. And my thesis is pretty simple. people increasingly like to gamble on stuff. And I'm not just talking about gambling addicts. I'm talking about the general trend of Gen Z, millennials, online purchasing, shopping, libubu trends. It's all some form of kind of vague gambling. Basically, you don't know what you're going to get, but you're excited about what's going to happen. And I think that prediction markets kind of manifests, sorry, not manifests, combines social scrolling and what information you're receiving.

38:14That's why you hop on Instagram. That's why you hop on X. You want to hear different types of opinions, breaking news, all that kind of stuff. But the issue is in an age of AI, all of this stuff can get easily manipulated. You don't really know what's true, right? And so one of the main narratives of prediction markets is it's a truth-seeking machine. And we saw that play out at one of the biggest events ever, which was the political presidency elections in the US, right? Where Polymarket basically guessed that Trump was going to win it well before all the other pollsters, traditional pollsters did as well.

38:48So there's some legitimacy behind it. But there are a lot of challenges that haven't yet been overcome yet that needs to be if we want to kind of scale this up beyond like some long tail kind of app that never really kind of makes it. And that's liquidity. So if you go onto a lot of these prediction markets, like this particular football team is going to beat this other team, right? The liquidity is usually quite low. And there are two reasons behind that. Number one, the UX is terrible. And I like Polymarket and I like Calci, but there's too many clicks needed to get to the point of like, okay, I put my money in, now I'm gonna see how much money I make.

39:29So I think the UX needs to improve massively. But number two, the liquidity. So the market makers, you know, the bid and ask side on either side is terrible. I went on a prediction market yesterday, Mando, and I put down a hundred bucks. You know, I was like, I think Google Gemini, it was a prediction market that said, will Google release their new model in the next two weeks? And I was like, yeah, I think they might. I put down a hundred bucks and it moved the market like 20%. Why? Why on earth would it do that for a hundred bucks? So it's an issue and it needs to somehow get resolved. This is 100 % the issue.

40:07They don't share liquidity, right? And often they have a long tail of markets. So how a traditional sportsbook would work is there's only a certain number of games happening. Yeah, there's loads of games happening, but there's only a certain number of games happening. And generally, you can kind of share the liquidity somewhat of both sides if you're a sportsbook provider because you kind of know you're always going to make the spread on the trade. With a lot of these, there's no way to hedge. You really have to face somebody else. Or the liquidity that's being provided needs to be incentivized to stay there.

40:43You have to find the other person willing to take the bet that Google isn't going to bring out their model in two weeks. And it's not with traditional sportsbooks. there's also often a way to like hedge big delta exposure you know like if if you've got if you are an operator and you are massively on the line for like chelsea to win a football game you can go out and kind of hedge your exposure if you if you wanted to whereas here like if someone were to put on a huge amount of size on that exact google google bet there's no there's no one else taking that bet so i think this is kind of the issue is that like i see a lot of I see a lot of good takes that this is going to be a big deal, but I think it's going to have to center around a smaller number of markets, or we need to find a new way of sharing liquidity between the protocol to ensure that people can have bets on everything.

41:42So what I have seen is is that in terms of percentage of winning wallets, prediction markets is about 10 % to 20%, which is higher. Perp trading is about 5 % to 10%. Meme coin trading is 2 % to 3%. So people can make money. It's not 100x gains, because obviously that's just generally not how the market works. But it does feel as though there is, now that everyone's lost so much money on meme coins, and it's kept on going, it feels as though this is, if you just want to gamble, like you said, if we are in this gambling super cycle of, of Gen Z coming in and knowing that they, the only way for them to make sometimes, you know, a hundred thousand bucks isn't to, isn't to work for 10 years or whatever it is.

42:28It's to, it's to do more of this gambling. They, they, I do think it's, it's going to find a place. We just need to find a better model. And to be fair, these haven't been going on for that long. It feels as though this is kind of the DeFi summer of, prediction markets and we're gonna see so many things happen over the next few years uh to kind of optimize that exact model so i agree yeah it kind of reminds me a little of what nft trading was like in the early days before blur came along do you remember then blur came along and they had an incentive program and that weirdly had the effect of driving liquidity for a very illiquid asset class, right?

43:13You could pretty much dump your pudgy penguins or whatever easily versus listing it on OpenSea and waiting a couple of days to see whether anyone would buy it. I think we're going to see a similar trend emerge around prediction markets because someone needs to solve the liquidity problem. And I feel like that's an attractive enough opportunity where there's big bucks coming around it that is worth solving. Now, the other side of the coin that we spoken about for prediction markets is the legal gray area that they operate in. Currently, you've got Polymarket that is on-chain and blah, blah, blah, but it's technically not legal or available for the US users.

43:55Now, this week, we saw a big bit of news, which was Trump's son. I forgot what his name is. I think it's Trump Jr. Eric. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's either Eric or Yeah, I think it's Eric Trump. He has a fund which made a huge investment in Polymarket. So, you know, without reading too much into it, that probably signals a lot of trust from the Trump presidency. And, you know, possibly a route is planned forward for getting Polymarket public in the U.S. and available for U.S. users. And in fact, Shane Copland, the founder of Polymarket, announced that in his tweet when he announced the funding. and saying, you know, we're on the path towards enabling this for US users.

44:39So there's some legal stuff that's being solved there. But the other bit of big news, exactly. Yeah. And the other bit of news around this as well is, I think a$15 million investment was made into this new company called The Clearinghouse, whose aim is to make legally available on chain prediction markets. And this team is compromised of ex-Calchi and ex-Polymarket people. And I wouldn't be mentioning this team if it weren't for the investors behind it, which is like Coinbase Ventures, Union Square Ventures, and some other big firms. So we're starting to see major investment from the VC side on this.

45:22So again, I think in the near term, it's kind of frothy. But over the next year or so, we're going to start to see some real products. Liquidity gets solved. So I'm excited about it. I don't really know where the investment opportunity is beyond like a few random on-chain products, but there's no public way to play it just yet. So yeah, I'm not sure. You can either get involved in these prediction markets. I do think there's some, particularly where they meet crypto, like when the price or often it's like, will the price of Bitcoin be 110K? Like they move much slower than the traditional markets.

45:57So you can, I think there is some gaming there. One thing we also saw this week was that The US says it's going to start putting some of its economic data on chain. I think it started from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. There's going to be a few others, things like GDP, non-farm payrolls, I reckon, in time. I don't know the exact list of economic data, but they're going to start doing this, and they're going to do it on many different chains. One thing I do think is that that could be quite a big thing that people bet on each week. I remember being on trading floors where you used to bet on non-farm payrolls each week amongst each other as traders.

46:32That was very, very popular. And I also think it could extend to key earnings results. Because I think a lot of people, for example, for NVIDIA this week, right, they would actually just prefer to bet on what the EPS is going to be, rather than own the stock, it has a good EPS, and then the stock goes down. Like people often are just looking for those zero day gambling things. And at the moment, sometimes the stock market doesn't provide the perfect game for them. And I think that you could see this extend to both economic data like PC inflation we had today. You could bet on that. But also on key earnings, I reckon we could see this a lot.

47:14You probably are going to get into the world of needing regulation for this sort of stuff, given the ability for inside information on that could be pretty big. But if you believe in the gambling super cycle, I think we'll find a way at some stage that you can start doing that soon. I think that's a great take. No comments. I actually haven't heard that take around, you know, like earnings and stuff like that, but it makes complete sense. People like to gamble on it anyway, indirectly through stocks and mag seven movements before a weekend ends and when a new week starts. So why wouldn't they do it on all the minutiae?

47:50And I think they know that sometimes they get rugged. They'll say, oh, earnings are good. I've bought the stock. And then the stock opens down. They're like, no, to the inside. They just prefer just to gamble on it. But the big gainers people saw from this were things like Link. We've spoken about that on this podcast before. I was a little bit more bullish on that. I continue to think that as an Oracle service will be big. Pith, which was the Solana version, was up like 100%, I think, yesterday on that news. but it does feel like these oracles are increasingly being tied in with TradFi and various other forms of, let's say, the establishment, which can provide another business line for them.

48:31So I think there could be something interesting there.

48:37The final thing I wanted to touch upon was Sandbox. This was a story that I know you came up kind of in the NFT days as well, and you have your CryptoPunk. But Sandbox was, back in the days of the metaverse, was spoken about as the next big thing. I don't know where it topped out as a coin, but it was definitely in the billions. This week, they announced that the founders are being sidelined. They're cutting 50 % of the staff. I think the coin is down 95 % from its peak. And I don't know if they're continuing with the metaverse or there was something about like, if they're going to do a token launch pad instead.

49:17But I thought it was very interesting because this is at a time where I don't think the metaverse is necessarily dead. And I think it's something that I've listened to you and the content you create. It's something you believe too. Like with these new world generation models, we're actually getting a much closer to it. It just feels like these sort of old versions of it might be dead. What's your view on the sandbox and just like the metaverse in general? Yeah, so you mentioned something called world simulators. So for those of you who don't know what that is, think of a AI video model that generates an image, right?

49:57So let's say it generates an image of a person standing in a forest. But now you can move that person around like it was a video game. And it generates new worlds and new perspectives and new views of that person as you kind of pan the camera around. and it does this in real time. So think about kind of like a video game, but it generates in real time. Super powerful things can be done with this. You could simulate environments for robots to train on, or you could create a new kind of role-playing game that can merge with another, really cool things. And so the point we're making here is with AI models, with image generation models, with all the Google stuff, with all the new hardware devices that are going to come out, we're kind of creating what we have PTSD from, which is the metaverse, right?

50:46And the metaverse is a pretty cringe term, but that's effectively describing a new type of internet where we interact with the online world in a very different way. If you've watched Ready Player One, it's probably something along those lines from a visual perspective, right? And then when we look at the compute power needed for these new models, like there have been massive leaps. It feels like even in the last few months on this, right? And the quality and the physics behind some of these models look incredible. Can you maybe just touch upon that a little bit? Of course, yeah. So I'll give you a clear stat, actually.

51:22So OpenAI, when they released their image generation feature, which went viral, it was hugely popular, but it kept costing them a lot of money back then. And back then was literally like two months ago. Google's new image generation feature called Nano Banana, which they released this week, is already 35 times less expensive than that. Actually, it costs less than a Google query does when you search something, which is just insane. Because typically that figure was 100x two years ago. So the cost of compute is getting less. the cost of inference, which is the cost it takes to kind of query something, the AI model, is getting significantly less at an exponential rate, right?

52:09Chips are getting better. NVIDIA GPUs are getting better. Architectures are getting better. Data centers are being set up everywhere. So we're going to see this increasing trend of cost go down for these types of things, but the rate of innovation of tech go up. And that is a very dangerous combination and mix of things to happen if you're creating a new kind of visual internet paradigm, a metaverse per se. Now, going back to the example that you started this story with, Mando, which is Sandbox. What's really interesting about this example is, okay, so they're cutting half their stuff. It's kind of like a private equity takeover to an extent, right?

52:47Cut out all the fluff, kind of reorganize the team, maybe realign the vision to some extent, and get them to hyper focus on one thing. And I read also some of the stories around this that they're using AI, generative AI specifically, to replace a lot of the business functions like marketing, product development, all that kind of stuff. What I like about this is it's kind of like a Carvana rehaul story, right? Carvana is like a trad company, rental company that IPO'd and it just went to zero, right? And you typically never hear anything about this company before, except that they had a private equity takeover, a complete rehaul, and they hyper-focused on one thing, which was like rental cars and all that kind of stuff, sales and selling car insurance.

53:31And their stock is now at all-time highs. It was like the biggest comeback story ever. I think we're going to start to see a similar type of thing happen within NFT companies as well. And maybe Sandbox is an example of that. It's too early to say, but I would say it's a positive thing to see. Yeah, that's a good take. Well, I do think the size of an organization is definitely coming down with AR. I can see it even in the business that we work. But just this exact thing, I think the ability to spin up, I mean, some of the videos I've seen of the worlds that you can spin up and you can run around and play in them.

54:05They seem way more advanced than they were just six months ago. I do think suddenly again, we can get bullish on this concept of digital ownership a bit more um we may kind of be returning to this world i think one of the main issues with with some of these metaverse was is they felt very stagnant no one was hanging out in them they were just kind of a bit boring and they just yeah they just didn't really excite anyone and they often cost a lot they cost a lot to run um the servers needed i think for like you couldn't be in like the server uh the same server as a certain number of players in in um decentraland i remember at one stage whereas now it feels as though the costs like you just said are going to come down significantly so if you are going to set up a metaverse company it feels like now is actually maybe the time to do it so there may be an opportunity there i think that's that's an interesting take okay look we went through a lot different there uh i like these shows we went through eith hype uh google building manochipment prediction markets putting economic data on chain and then sandbox we will get to the questions now just before we get there it was just to say head over to realvision.com forward slash ready set connect we are giving away connect memberships um on sale at the moment you'll be able to access myself and osf monthly ama along with a bunch of other content around crypto.

55:38Okay. So the questions that we have coming through now. Mando, I remember you were pretty vocal about your link position. What kind of signals would tell you that the market is getting frothy enough to start taking profit on link? And if that happens, would you look to rotate into something else with momentum or to de-risk into ETH? So what I actually did was de-risk ETH into Bitcoin and a little bit of link. And I've continued to do that so like bitcoin has become i had uh had like a set limit order all the way up to all-time high where i got out of 75 of the uh of the eth i moved most of that into bitcoin and then i did buy some link i do like the link story i like it because it's a bit memeable like xrp but there is kind of a bit of more of a foundation to it than xrp in my opinion there's a lot more going on um and out of all the altcoins right now it's one of the ones i like alongside let's say hype and obviously Rex and some of the other stuff we're involved in.

56:32But I think ETH could have a bit of a shaky couple of weeks. But I do really like that story medium term. But right now, I mainly own Bitcoin and a little bit of Link. And then it kind of goes down from there. ETH, hype, Rex, all this sort of stuff. EJazz, last time you mentioned a few AI agents that caught your attention. Have any new ones come onto your radar since then? I'm also curious about your thoughts on virtuals and where you see them fitting into the market this cycle. Okay, so to answer the first question, I mentioned a bunch of trad AI agents, so like OpenAI's agent, Anthropics agent.

57:11The simple answer is no, I haven't seen any new agents get released by those companies or any kind of major crypto AI companies. And I think the reason behind that is they have some challenges to overcome, right? So one of the main ones is coordination. determination so right now a lot of these agents operate in silos and they don't really talk well to each other and then number two is tool use so you can right now connect an agent to a bunch of different tools and apps that you use but they kind of don't really know what to do with it the context is lacking and i actually think i mentioned this on the last episode that i was on so we're still in that same case and we're waiting to see you know someone create something much better now Now, the good news is it is still very much the favored path going forwards.

57:58Eventually, every AI company is going to have agents and they're going to be working seamlessly together. We just haven't quite materialized how that looks like right now. And then what was the question about virtuals specifically? Just if you still think they're going to be a leader in this space. I know they kind of pivoted to being more of a marketplace. And then I don't know if that's going to be as strong. It felt like they had a good head start, but I don't know now. Yeah. So I think the hope with virtuals was that they would evolve beyond just a marketplace and launchpad to build something more like a foundational app platform.

58:34We haven't or I haven't seen that happen just yet. I know they're doing a lot with their agent protocol, which is like, you know, a network of different agents. We haven't seen any meaningful traction or nothing that's impressed me, at least. So for now, I would say no. So, yeah. And you last said that you were looking at prediction markets meets AI agents. There was already a sitting AI agent that was doing that. How's that been going? Is it still a little bit nascent for that as well? It's still nascent, but I do think that the opportunity for agents to basically market make long tail markets, prediction markets, so the ones with low liquidity, is the way forward.

59:14I don't think it makes sense for humans to kind of try and bid or make those markets. So yes, the opportunity is there, but it's still nascent in terms of progression. Yeah, I know someone who's building a prediction market right now, and they are building it exactly for AI agents. They think that they are just going to be dominating the amount of flow going through pretty soon. Final question, is the real trade in the infrastructure and energy, I think this is to do with AI, Is the real trade in AI the infrastructure and energy rather than the application layers that will be commodified as software eats itself?

59:49I think I saw you do an interview about nuclear energy in the last month or so. What's your take on the infra and energy needed for all these AI applications? And is that the best trade? It has been the winning trade since AI went viral with GPT-3. It's been like that for like, what, three years now? And to be fair, it's consistently outperformed. A lot of bears have said, no, it's over. NVIDIA's topped. NVIDIA's topped. No, they haven't. You know, S &P 500 reached a new high yesterday, right? So NVIDIA is still very much the big boy and it'll continue to be. NVIDIA is rumored to be striking a deal with the presidential cabinet to sell to China, which was formerly the enemy and that was been restricted.

1:00:38So I think NVIDIA's power will continue to grow. I think things like nuclear energy plants and stuff will become very important. The point is, like, there can never be too much compute. It is for those Dune lovers, Dune the movie, it is the spice. You need the compute. Spice must flow. The spice must flow. And so there'll always be demand for energy. That's not going to change. The nuclear stuff is probably going to come to maturity only in 2030 to 2035 onwards. So there's a bit of a delay then because you've got to set these things up, get them regulated. So that's not really a play anytime soon.

1:01:17But then I do think we're going to see, and I mentioned this earlier, I think we're going to see a lull in model improvements. Because for so long, everyone's been like, oh, we're going to find AGI. AGI is coming soon, 2027. I don't think we're anywhere near that. I think it's going to be, actually, I think we said this on this show. I think I guessed that it was going to be 2030 maybe onwards. And again, I don't know if that's going to be true or not. but I think we're going to see a lull in model releases after Google's Gemini 3. And we're going to see more applications get built. OpenAI hired a new CPO of apps.

1:01:47Google Gemini released eight new apps this week. We're going to see more apps. Some of them are going to go viral, and then we're going to see that kind of cycle again. So you're going to have infrastructure investment, app investment. Infrastructure investment, app investment. It's that Gartner cycle or whatever it is. yeah because i'm right in saying that the i mean even statistically it's only been like two to three percent improvements in some of these more recent models right it's like we've got well chat tpt5 and it's like one percent better than the last model and and uh people are feeling that and i also think obviously the stock market's also asking like when are we actually going to start making money making money out of this guys uh which i think it needs apps i agree with you there Okay, Ejaz, it was awesome having you on again.

1:02:32Hopefully we'll have you on again soon in maybe a month. Obviously, Ejaz does a weekly and I think bi-weekly, right? You do it twice a week, a podcast slash show. It's called Limitless. Go check it out. It's a great, great show, mainly around AI, but obviously you can also find him on X. He has a hoodie, CryptoPunk, so you know he's cool. But yeah, thanks for coming on again, Ejaz. I really appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. This was awesome. Okay, guys. Well, we will see you again next week. We will be at our usual time at 11.30 a.m. Eastern, 4.30 p.m. British Summertime. That was Rec Vision, and we'll see you again next week.

1:03:14Bye, guys. So here we are, Token 2049. It really is one of the most energetic, incredible events. Speakers from all around the world and visitors from every country you can ever imagine, all trying to learn something together, something new, this exciting world of crypto and technology. It's where you go and make friends, lifelong friends. And what's so nice is to see people with big smiles on their faces, happy to be here and happy to be together. So hopefully see you next time in Singapore. Real Vision will be there. I look forward to seeing you all.

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