REKT Vision: Is The Banana Zone Over? ft. Raoul Pal

27:46So this has gone very, very popular in broader AI, albeit their path is also to then release a marketplace and potentially like a launch pool down the line. And then some of the smaller ones have been around the actual bots themselves. So AIXBT is kind of a genius bar for crypto. And you have those around the memes, which we've spoken about, which are like Goat and Fartcoin, which came from Truth Terminal. And then you have other things like the moment of the last week, I've seen DeFi with an AI in there. DeFi AI, I don't know how you'd even pronounce that or AI-Fi, which is, yeah, these bots coming in and yield farming for you, trading for you.

28:28And there's a number of different projects which are trying to be big in that space as well. I'm a cautiously optimistic investor with a heavy dose of understanding the law versus the law. Ovi was a very, very cautious at the start and then has recently dipped his toe, I feel, and become a bit more of a believer in some of the potential utility here. And Raoul, I feel like you're kind of at the show-me-story stage, prefer left-curve stuff. Maybe I'll give it to you, Ovi. So what changed your thesis around all this stuff? And do you think it can last? I think I was quite skeptical of all this stuff for a long time.

29:15I didn't touch any of it for the entirety of last year. Do I think it's a real product market fit for crypto? That part is definitely a show me story because it's still so nascent. We're starting to see the beginnings of AI agents and what they can do, but it's still very, very basic. And I guess the idea and hope is that this stuff improves and becomes a lot more usable. I guess what my thought process is, I think there's a difference in between something working out and being game-changing versus whether the price of it goes up or down. And I think it's comparable to something like the metaverse in 2021.

29:55Like no one cares about the metaverse now, but every metaverse related thing was absolutely roofing in 2021, obviously led by NFTs. And I think AI commands a similar brevity of narrative here. Obviously, that's been the main driver for rallies and various tech stocks and video, obviously, is like the main one there. And it was kind of like in crypto last year, but all tokens that already had very high FTVs and I think products that maybe an average person couldn't really get their head around. And when I say average person, I'm now starting to think about like the usual retail casino crowd within crypto.

30:35If I look at these AI agents now, like who are the people trading them? Like who's in all this stuff? It's the same crowd that were in meme coins last year, which is the same crowd that were in NFTs in 2021, which is probably the same crowd who were in altcoins and DeFi in 2020. Like this crowd isn't necessarily like the expert crowd or something. This is the casino crowd. but wherever the casino crowd goes it tends to create a bubble in whatever that asset class or narrative is and so that's my take on it like I think there's enough people in it now and there's enough, obviously the mind share stats speak for themselves but there's enough mind share in it now where I think it can actually work and even though we don't have these like amazing products yet there are like stuff like AIXBT agent is pretty cool like it's cool to see like something autonomously give you views on stuff, even if they're not always correct.

31:29We obviously have like an agent for rec guy now, which has actually been pretty useful. And there's a lot of things we can do from the art side of things. So there are some things which you can see, like feel and touch virtually, I think, which is getting people a bit more on board, which is what I think NFTs were. Like once people started collecting NFTs, they're like, okay, cool, I get this now. Now I'm on board. So I just think this would open up a wider range of potential investors away from just retail, because if you're like an institutional fund where you just can't justify putting gambling meme coins to your investors, you can now kind of sort of spin a story on, oh, hey, this is like AI and there's real tech behind it.

32:11And these agents could go out there and do all these amazing things. And this is very early. And I think that whether it's successful or not is another thing, but it is a real theory you can pitch to someone and probably get someone on board. And I think this number has been touted around for a lot now in the last couple of weeks, but the total market cap of AI agents and its infrastructure is like$16 billion. That could easily be 10x. Whether those coins are just like by supply of coins increasing, it will remain to be seen. But I just find it very hard to believe that if this market keeps going, that number is not going to do a 5 to 10x, which means I think a lot of these AI infrastructure coins could be in the tens of billions of market cats.

32:54Because if you start, you can think about them, if your head is plugged into the meme coin world, you're thinking about when something gets to 100 million or 500 million or a billion, and then things seem to top out at a billion. But in altcoins, things have huge FDVs, right? And if this becomes and has the potential to be the number one altcoin sector, I think the ceiling of these FDVs can be very, very high and much higher than where we are now. So that's kind of like my top-down thesis on it. And that's, I've really like, I've really gone from one to the other. Like I was very much against touching any of this stuff.

33:27And even on New Year's Eve, Mando was at my throat as it again. And I was like, nah, I just, I just don't really believe in this stuff. And I think on New Year's day, I just, you know what? I just, this fills up one of those things where I keep saying, no, I'm going to fade it. And then I'm going to end up buying it too late. So I just thought I've been in this position before I've made that mistake before. honestly the last time something like this happened was nfts in 2021 when mando was like you should buy nfts i didn't until he started making hundreds of thousands of nfts i thought okay i'm gonna start buying them now which still wasn't too late but i was like i'm not gonna make the same mistake this time so well you did buy them actually at the mini peak for them i did i knew i knew i would create a local top i i did that knowingly but um in nfts too right you came work out what's valuable and then and then Raoul I know you're like which I think has been a fail safe way to be in crypto which is stay to the left if it's funny it's probably investable it can onboard people quickly this is return to the stuff that everyone's been wrecked on really a lot of the utility stuff a lot of the the hopes and dreams and founders we all believe in who then let us all down is your issue that it is that sort of thing?

34:44Or is it your issue that you just don't see this as being the actual utility, I say, for like crypto? You don't see utility in these projects? So I think Ovi mentioning the metaverse is dead on. The metaverse is real. It'll be fucking enormous at some point. But we just bought a bunch of hopes and dreams and it wasn't a metaverse. I mean, Decentraland, Sandbox, it was all terrible, right? So what have we got here? we've got us over-extrapolating on the future of AI. The reality, because I spend a lot of time in AI world, is the reality is agents don't exist in AI yet. So we don't have fucking agents.

35:25What we have is a bunch of macros and plus AI search and a chatbot. This is not agents. And to watch ThreadGun and all these guys going, oh my God, this is the future of the world. They are so far behind where AI really is. the technology we're seeing in this token side is two-year-old technology. So we are not anywhere close to what is about to happen in AI world in 2025, which is full autonomous agents. It'll blow everybody's minds. And it will not come to crypto first, because again, people are like, oh, there's so much money in crypto, 16 billion, that's a fucking funding round for open AI.

36:02They have so much density of talent between Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, and Meta that it is laughable to compare us to that. So I think that the risk is here that we've hit peak attention because everyone was bored over December. And we've forced a narrative. The narrative over time will be like the metaverse, spot on. Like DeFi was, spot on, right? These narratives are right, but we're over-extrapolating, which is why I think it's a mid-curve. We're over-extrapolating, claiming that we've reached the Holy Grail within a bunch of DGens. And I think Ovi's point, it's the same fucking people. It's exactly the same people we were pushing with six months ago.

36:47And so we're not doing anything different. I spent a lot of time with people like Andy Airely and stuff like that, finding out really what's going on. What was interesting from him was getting a memetic to leap from his model to the human conscious and become viral. Okay, that was very interesting. And so, you know, you guys using an AI for rec guy may be nothing to do with, is it this some sort of agent that people can use? And more is, can it implant virality of memetics? That's very powerful. That is a proven thing. And it ended up raising capital in this random thing. So I am...

37:35I think we're all... I think he's very good. Am I frozen? You're actually frozen, but you came in calling us all mid-curves. Yeah, I just think it's mid-curve because it's so far behind where the reality is. We've discovered God in crypto. We're like, fuck me, if you've not been following this space. you know um so you know what's interesting is is if you look at the new chat gpt 04 model it has an iq of 157 the average iq of the person getting in involved in this stuff is about 100 yeah i agree i agree with all of that by the way like i think i think everything you said is completely true now could it go up yes exactly yeah that's that's exactly it yeah but but i'm not gonna i think if p i think it passed peak attention now will one of those projects like virtuals because it has a cash flow that generates stuff can it can keep going for sure i just think there's easier bets that's that's my general view see where i would i would um challenge that is i actually think it is a slightly broader firebase that's what i've seen i actually felt like a lot of the meme coin traders and NFT traders faded this stuff for a long time and actually have continued to fade it and not liked it.

38:55What I've seen is a lot more like, it's a lot more institutional people. Like bankless are getting involved in this sort of stuff. You know, like it feels as though the crowd that wasn't involved. Because they're mid-curve. Right. That's what I mean. It's the mid-curve revenge trade. That's what I call it. It's the mid-curve revenge trade. everyone was playing around with everyone faded this I think a lot of people still are fading this so I actually don't think it's the same as the whiff crowd I think it's quite a different crowd and I think that they often believe in stuff for a lot longer than the whiff crowd like I actually think that if you get liquid token funds like Obi said you have a broader buyer base people who get into this I think it's more a challenge to altcoins than I think it is to whiff that's basically what I think it is I would also like I don't know but I have seen more interesting stuff from this sector than I have seen from a lot of the rest of the altcoin sectors for a long time.

39:52Like I actually think there's some cool stuff going on here. In the same way that I laughed at memes and I still think they're really good, I actually think that if, you know, you're starting to see, you know, bots that can swap for you, trade for you. If this is, I know these are obviously rappers of often old versions of ChatGPT or, or the flawed model or whatever model they're going to do. They often are the older models. That's 100 % true. But I'm fairly sure, like you said, that those guys are not going to come in and do crypto. Like I don't think that when the next chat GPT gets released, there's going to be a crypto integration.

40:32I don't think any of them are going to do it. They'll wait. So it's going to have to come from this sort of wrapper stuff. Like we're going to have to have teams that wrap it and make it applicable to crypto, in my opinion. And although I would agree with you that it's still in the hope phase, there is a world where you have a chat-GPT sort of interface, which maybe we have a wrapper for, but you get it to do payments for you. You get it to do your shopping for you. You're going to have MoonPay integrations for all these different sites. You could get it to trade for you. There is a world where, and I think that is kind of normie.

41:05I think you could pitch that in the same way. But I think we wouldn't disagree that that is coming, but it's not based on the current kind of, you know, these are basically large pools of bots that we already seen on Telegram. And what you're doing is, I was speaking to one of the groups yesterday, is what people are doing is training these bots to say, hey, I want to swap this to this to this and do this and do yield farming. You show it, it then joins the database. And if other people use it, you kind of get paid for that. So it's basically just models. It's no different than the pine cone models that are on TradingView for trading models and stuff like that.

41:47So that's the issue I've got, is it's still macros. Now, what you're talking about, Mando, is 100 % right. Is that going to be these guys doing that? Or is that going to come from another group of people using whatever OpenAI release or whoever releases it? I don't know. So that's why I find it not so investable. Not that the theme isn't right. Of course it is. You know, that nexus of AI and crypto is colossus. But it's like, are any of these guys doing that? Are we just building Telegram chatbots? At the moment, it's largely chatbots. If you go into virtuals, obviously the main agents on virtuals, the vast majority of them are just Twitter accounts, which are often themed in different ways.

42:29The most famous of them right now is AIXBT, which is also trying to pivot, which is actually the number one mindshare in crypto. Like this bot is reaching hundreds of thousands of followers. But to be said, you just add it around different information in crypto and it kind of just gives you a summary. So you'll be like, hey, what do you think of this token? And it will give you a summary. Often it kind of contradicts itself, as Obi said, but this bot has become incredibly popular. It's just a way to kind of simplify information. And then some of the other bots, you have some which are more about like the DJ and stuff.

43:08You have ones which do like sports gambling, some which do some level of investing. Like it is basic. It's basic. None of them look that perfect right now. And at the moment, yeah. One thing that I think will happen is this is going to be the UX layer for the whole internet and the UI layer. And so wallets will be this. And once you've got a wallet that you can talk to and say, hey, buy me some Solana. I want it staked and then I want it re-staked and I want to do this. And it just goes to do it. That is a big deal. Now, is that going to come from one of these or is that going to come from Robinhood doing it or Coinbase?

43:50I've thought about this myself. Why they haven't done it themselves? A lot of them are starting to list the coins. But surely if you're Binance or Coinbase here, you can dominate this. Well, because it's very hard to directionally know what to do because these bloody models improve too fast. So anything you built is out of date. So you need to somehow set direction to be able to do it. The moment agents are out, agents can then improve on agents. And you've got all of this self-improvement stuff. So it becomes easier to plant a flag. It's really hard to plant a flag right now because everything changes in three months.

44:25I think that's going to be an ongoing theme for crypto meets AI, which is that we will be using all the models. There's no doubt about it. Like the guys who are researching this sort of stuff will be building them for a few months and then the model will already be out of date versus the last one. But because the big major AI firms are not going to touch crypto, in my opinion, or be very, very slow to like roll out crypto integrations, I think we're probably going to be in that sort of world where you have a wrapper, which makes it easier for you. and maybe applies it in a different way. I think that's going to be kind of something that we see for many, many years, if I'm honest.

45:02But yeah, it's an interesting part of the sector. As Ovi said, that is now a sector which has gone up to about 15 billion in terms of market cap. To put it in perspective, memes are about 100 billion. Obviously, Doge is the largest bit of that. The others, so the coins outside the top 10 is around 350 billion. and then the crypto market cap is above$3 trillion. So in the context of maybe altcoins and the whole crypto market cap, I think we're all saying this stuff can go higher. It's still a show-me story. And with the metaverse, this did all implode. It was also a bit of a macro implosion, I would say, at the same time.

45:43Meta changed its name, obviously, and then everyone was like, no, we don't want that. This feels slightly different in that every single one of the major firms in the Nasdaq is talking about agents. Like this is a... They were talking about the metaverse. They were all talking about the metaverse too. Car companies as their metaverse did. I was... No, no, no. They all had Web3 departments and then now they're all fired. They all had metaverse departments and they were throwing parties in the metaverse for their staff and launching cars in the metaverse and fashion shows in the metaverse. Oh no, it was full mid-curve, entire corporate world.

46:20Well, maybe that's the case. I felt like Meta was leading that one, and then everyone hated them. This one feels like NVIDIA, Google, Meta, Microsoft, like every single one. But I agree with you. There was a little bit of Wagme vibes. It's Wagme vibes. It's Wagme vibes going on in AI right now. I am drinking the Kool-Aid. You know we're going to see McDonald's chatbot talking to Starbucks chatbot, saying, GM, my friend. That shit is about to happen all over again from these agents. For sure. I was speaking to somebody who were involved in from a marketing perspective. He runs like a Web3 agency and he was talking about that.

46:58Like you're going to see big brands come in with their mascots, their characters. And instead of having to launch a crypto coin, you know, hey, we're going to launch an AI agent coin. And, you know, you're going to have AI agents for all the major brands. And so there is that sort of case as well. Like we're early to that. I haven't seen one person do that yet. No, but we will have that wag me friends, you know, between the brands. Wadwiser and Pepsi, I think it was. And then you realize, oh my God, this is all wrong. We're not there yet. In the NFT cycle, you know, it started that same December 2020.

47:37Maybe I always say December 2020 was one of the bigger people drops. This started in October 2024. So we're kind of, we've got that first stage of run up. everyone thinks they're changing the world we've had a little bit of a correction even over the last week or so i do still think that you know we've got a this this one will continue to run that's my that is my prediction for this year that this is not going to be a something that fades away i think this is going to be one that runs i agree with what ovi said in that it can go up and all the current coins may not be the most valuable thing if you bought nfts in february 2021 you were probably buying nifty gateway collections and and they all went to zero like you can you can buy the wrong things if you buy them early i think um and nsc still went up to what i think 50 billion plus market cap at their peak so it does you have to be wary but i i can see this now being a very very strong sector for a while just because the mid curves are back they're back They're investing.

48:40It's not just... I'm pleased you're admitting it's mid-curve now. We've got you to that part now. It's a vengeance. It's the vengeance play. Me and Ovi were saying it's the revenge play of the mid-curves in 2024, 2025. We've upset thousands of people watching this stream, by the way, because everyone's really passionate. When I wrote that little tweet about it, I mean, the amount of, like, you're the mid-curve, you're a moron, everything. I mean, people are really invested in this space. So there's going to be a lot of people insulted because we're calling them mid-curvers now. But you're saying it's the revenge of them and they're going to win anyway.

49:18I don't know. Let's have a concept of using your brain has turned into an insult. You know what I mean? It's just like, oh my God, you actually just rationally thought through something. That's terrible. So embarrassing. Why would anyone ever do that? Yeah, for sure. It's become utility. everyone has been burned so many times and so the idea when everyone starts bringing it back and says we're going to change the world if you've done a few cycles of this it's just like no we're not doing this again but you know every single cycle was a mid-curve and they often run for you know 12 to 15 months these sort of mini metas and and and stuff can go crazy and then everyone realizes at the end of them the best thing to own was far coin you know uh but but there's a there's a long gap, I think, from here.

50:08Because Farccoin, I mean, it is I mean, it's left mid, right curve. It's the whole thing. It's a perfect package. It's like, it's really hard to fade something called Farccoin that's already at a billion bucks or whatever. It's like, impossible to fade. Farccoin's going low, man. 800 million. You can get in for Farccoin. I don't own any. Should we move on to questions for the last we've hit the two major topics. We've just been chatting away having fun. Yeah, exactly. Before we do that, just wanted to showcase some pro crypto content on Real Vision. Earlier this week, we had Ash Bennington speak with David Duong from Coinbase.

50:49They did a deep dive into the company's annual crypto market outlook. They also discussed crypto majors, deep ends, obviously AI agents, meme coins and much more. So if you have a pro crypto subscription on Real Vision, head over to realvision.com to check it out. or also sign up. And yeah, let's be able to questions. Yeah, David's good. He actually runs Coinbase, runs Research at Coinbase. Awesome. Awesome, that was a good one to check out. Right, first question. This was from William on the Real Vision website. Arthur Hayes projects maybe up to$600 billion of further liquidity by the end of April, and then that's it.

51:27What do you guys think? So that's what he's doing, is thinking about the draining of the TGA. and again it's not US liquidity that matters it's global liquidity so I disagree because China needs liquidity or it's going to implode it's literally going to implode so you kind of know when you see the bond yields doing that in China it's telling you that liquidity is the single most important thing. Can we focus on China a little bit because I just feel like it's in such a crazy scenario here like you've now got to see deflation property prices were crashing for many years before that bond yields at all time lows right and this is a country with huge debt to gdp particularly at some of the local government level as well they've already been printing is it just how does that story turn around and the population is predicted to you know drop by many tens of percents by the end of this century It doesn't turn around because it's all demographics.

52:27Always has been. You know, it's always been demographics. Now, China's demographics came later, but faster. So what we're seeing is the entire re-rating of all Chinese assets because of this. We've had it in Japan. We've had it in Europe. We've had it in the US, which has slightly better demographics. So we know the rulebook. We know the playbook, which is you need to stuff everything on the balance sheet of the central bank and then you just have to manage the debt refinancing cycle and you're going to have to deal with slower GDP growth. It's like we've seen the playbook. Japan is the way always.

53:04Well, Japan, everyone said, you know, robotics is going to be their savior. Now everyone's talking about AI, maybe be the savior for China. Do you think, do you think, you know, they can be saved in that way? Yes. I mean, that's why they're putting so much money into AI and robotics because it solves your a labor force problem. I showed the chart and I called it the world's greatest macro chart. And nobody understands this is if you just take the labor force participation rate in the US and put the debt to GDP against it, inverted, they're the same chart. So all the debt is a function of demographics.

53:38It's the same with China. The only way of solving this is AI and robots, unless you get everybody to have 17 kids, which ain't going to happen. And that still has a 20-year lag before they become productive units. So yeah, and Japan is doing this too. They're right at the forefront of robotics as well. China's robotics is scaling at a terrifying speed. So yeah. Yeah, everyone's pointing to drones, obviously, that they've gone nuts on. They've got the humanoid robots as well. They've got, I don't know, 20, 30 startups that have them fully functioning already. so Europe's the only place that hasn't really gone down the tech route saved themselves they've gone down the regulation route which is always good to hear that's great for technological advancements alright next question from John I thought I heard Jamie Coote say that Bitcoin tends to front run liquidity why does it appear that Bitcoin is currently lagging into my misunderstanding what Jamie has said in the past my understanding was that bitcoin would lag m2 as well but i don't know if yeah i'm not sure um on a forward-looking basis financial conditions lead everything yeah um then it's liquidity then it's crypto yeah that's that's that's my view too um all right we'll move on to the next question then um with quantum computing and its potential to crack bitcoin cryptography does it also have equal potential to crack traditional banking system too?

55:17There's been quite a lot of talk about this in the last few months with that new Google Quantum product that they launched. I think the NVIDIA CEO went on stage yesterday and said it's a long way off like quantum threats and stuff and all the quantum companies drop like 40 or 50 % in a day. in terms of bitcoin there is some debate that some of the older wallets the ones that like satoshi owns could be at risk in if it continues maybe at the current rate in like 10 years although there is some debate like they may be out to to make some changes um i think solana already this week said that like they're upgrading to um to avoid like quantum threats I think newer blockchains, it won't be a problem.

56:12But there is a lot of talk about, yeah, you're going to have to, our current security standards will probably last us a decade or two, and then we're going to have to continue to upgrade them. And yeah, it'll affect the banks as well as it does everything. I mean, it affects everything, the whole internet. So everyone's aware, no knowns like this, like Y2K problems, stuff like that, they're not a big deal. Because with$3 trillion locked in this, plus you take the entire Web2 industry, plus everything else, there's like$20 trillion at risk here without the banking system. So, of course, economically, you're incentivized to try and get quantum to break it, but you're equally going to create an arms race in defending it.

56:56So I think it's fine. Okay, next question. This one's specifically for you, Raoul. Bank of America just confirmed their position of no more rate cuts. Given what you're saying about Trump coming in, rates having to go lower with a lower US dollar, is Bank of America just flat out wrong? I think rates do come a bit lower still. But as I've said, it's not about the US. Rates went up all the way through 2017. It's not about US rates. It's about global liquidity. That's the single most important thing for people to understand. Yeah. Okay, next question. What's your take on Mad Lads who looks like they're leading the NFT space on Solana?

57:42You guys have any view on Mad Lads? They went higher this week. There is talk about Backpack, which is the, talk about them buying the FTX Europe arm, which had like a perp license out of bankruptcy. This week, there's been a debate about whether that trade has even happened. The FTX estate came out and said, yeah, no, this hasn't happened. So I don't know. But there is something, maybe they've got an airdrop for some sort of future FTX Europe exchange. Backpack's been a relatively strong exchange, like a bunch of different Solana tokens. But yeah, that's why it's been strong. I don't think much else.

58:29NFTs. Some of the more historic NFTs have done well recently. A lot of the ones that have been the AI meets NFT narrative has kind of taken off a little bit, but it's been a bit slower before again.

58:47Okay, next question. Would you, would be good to get your current thoughts and expectations on the performance versus Sol versus Sui versus Aptos? Aptos is not one I've thought about, but Soul vs. Sui we've spoken about a lot on the show it just keeps going up I'm just full of the price yeah Sui just outperforms it's eating everything right now so I don't think that narrative dies for a while I don't see what takes it over yet there will be something yeah there's usually a bunch of chosen ones but Sui just does nothing but outperform everything yeah it's definitely the price price coming first the narrative sort of following that because I think the TVL is still not quite there but It's quite astonishing how much continues to outperform all the other L1s on days where it pulls back and on days where it rebounds as well.

59:37I know. When it rebounds, it's quite shocking. Even I'm surprised. Everything else is up 1%. It's up 10%. I'm like, fucking hell. Yeah. I don't know who's buying it, but somebody is. Soul, to me, looks so mispriced here. It really does. Everyone thought it's just for gamblers, and then it picks up every new narrative that comes in. Sol picks it up and wins in that narrative. At the moment, it's AI. And although the meme coins have gone slower, now it's all AI coins. And yes, base has had a strong footing there because it had virtuals. But Solana, again, has just been incredibly strong. Do you think there's something more simple going on, which is these FTX unlocks.

1:00:25Yeah, you have the unlocks coming. I mean, these were huge, if you remember. They cleared the market nicely so Solana could rally. But fucking everybody from Pantera to Brevin Howard to everybody have got gazillions of dollars of this stuff. And they're all up like two. It's a narrative, in my opinion. It's a 2 % of Solana's market cap is coming in the next three months. And if you remember, at the time of the sales, everyone was talking about, oh, they're being hedged. You know, like everyone was hedging pre then. So I don't really know if you can have your cake and eat it too and say like, oh yeah, well, you know, they've all got that to sale.

1:01:00Like I reckon a large bit of that was also, well, maybe not all of it, but a large bit was probably under some sort of hedging. It has felt heavy, right? So heavy. It felt heavy, and I don't know why. Because as you say, every single thing is happening on Solana. It's like it's crushing it, but it felt heavy. So we said this, and if you've been watching the show for a long time, me and Obi were very very vocal about the fact that the December period would probably be a time to at least Q4 you could see Solana underperform and we were more blissed on Bitcoin and ETH now I think that that underperformance has just gone way too far for where Solana is where it's beating ETH and base even on DEX volumes it's now dominating a AI narrative not dominating but it's got a very strong footing in it.

1:01:51It's been strong in memes and then you potentially have an ETF coming. You have Polymarket saying an 85 % of a Solana ETF coming. It's got a very powerful narrative, I think, and it's underperformed for a little bit too long. I think Solana looks really cheap. About a hundred, a sui of 50. I don't think, compared to what's happening on the two chains is now it's gone too far in my opinion.

1:02:17We'll see. I think once we get past this month and the fear of unlocks blows over, because I think just like a lot of these big supply things that come to the market, they usually either have already traded or already been hedged. It's not like, oh my God, they're going to sell billions of dollars of Solana in one clip and one go. That's not the reality. But the fear of it gets priced in, I think, weeks before the event. And then usually, I think that's the time to buy. I wouldn't be surprised if... So Sol ETH is down a ton in the last two months, whatever it is, two, three months. It's been moving Sol ETH.

1:02:56It's been pretty crazy. So I'd be surprised if we didn't catch up. I think that sort of brings us to the hour and the end of the show, guys. Yeah, I think one thing is we're all seeing each other in Miami. So you heard, oh, you mentioned at the beginning, or Amanda did, is there are a few tickets left for the crypto gathering in Miami. There are events all over Miami from small events to volleyball, to dinners, to breakfast, to big parties. There's all the rock stars coming along. There's all sorts of cool, fun people that you know from the space that you see on Real Vision. You get to hang out with them, have lunch with them, have breakfast with them, have drinks with them.

1:03:39So listen, crypto gathering, realvision.com forward slash CG 2025. It will be a lot of fun, I promise you. Yeah, you can even play a round of golf with me if anyone signs up to it. Please sign up to it so we can actually go up. I am not going to do that. I just... You should get Kevin Kelly to play. He'd like... Do you know Kevin? I think I was on a podcast with you guys once last year. Because Delphi have got... Delphi, right, yeah. Yeah, they're sponsoring a part of it and they've got some drinks. But Kevin likes golf. He's a really good guy and I can't stand golf. So there we go. There we go.

1:04:16right well thanks everyone for tuning in for the first show that we have in 2025 let's hope it's going to be a great year to come and plenty more banana action that we will see in the days weeks and months to come but thanks everyone for tuning in we'll be back again same time next week it's 11.30am Eastern time 4.30pm Greenwich Mean Time and we'll see you guys next week Cheers everyone

1:05:04so within this we have parties you can choose the vip track and then you might be on a boat party and you're doing something else and going for a dinner there or meeting people in different venues and bars. So there's lots going on. It's like a mad treasure hunt. I like the idea of just hanging out with you guys, drinking a rum or a glass of champagne and putting the world to rights and just really celebrating you as our members and our community. And it's a thank you for that as well. It'll be an incredible event.

1:05:39listen get your tickets quick before they sell out this is the event you've been waiting for come and join us for the crypto gathering we will have an absolute blast

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