REKT Vision: "Uptober” or “Rektober”? HUGE U.S. Jobs Beat

0:09Hello, everyone. Happy Friday and welcome back to RektVision. Mando is away this Friday. So we have Sergio Silva, co-founder of Popset and also another former Barclay colleague of mine. um sergio welcome back to the show how you doing good thank you so much for having me again always uh happy to come on and chat markets with uh with you guys yeah for those of you listening who don't know sergio and i worked um at barclays capital in nyc in the same building probably even the same floor maybe i don't know um but we never knew each other until we actually met each other in crypto um which is kind of weird but we were in the same building basically for about three years before we both realized we were we found crypto way more interesting than tradfi yeah um it was uh it was different floors for sure but definitely the same building but yeah yeah excited right so today the show is titled uptober or rectober um if you guys are listening on on youtube or x feel free to comment in um you know in the various chats and to let us know if you think is going to be an uptober or rectober kind of uh neither here nor there right now um what do you uh what do you make of uh the start of this month so far Sergio is it in line with your expectations are you in the the uptober camp or the rectober camp or just in the disengaged camp which many people are in to be fair yeah definitely not disengaged I mean I think it's hard to discount um or I guess expect something like the escalation that we saw in the Middle East, right?

1:46I mean, obviously, that situation has been bubbling up. It's just a terrible thing for humanity overall. But any kind of just war or escalation like that is going to spook markets. And you can't really put that into crypto charts or expectation of monetary policy and the like. So I think it's very idiosyncratic. It's probably just a good opportunity to continue to origin. It's one of the things that a couple of times that I've been here with Mando when you were out doing that duty, I think averaging it makes sense. And so this is a really good opportunity for that. As unfortunate as the circumstances that led to the sell-up bar.

2:24You know, it's a funny one because when I was speaking to Mando about this yesterday, people are pointing to geopolitical tensions for the reason for us being down. But if you look at stocks, the S &P 500 is basically unchanged in the last five days. Even the NASDAQ is basically unchanged in the last five days as well. So crypto seems to, once again, have taken a much bigger hit than TradFi. Is that truly attributable to Middle East tensions or is it just crypto showing its hand once again to some weak positioning or weak conviction in terms of holders in the market? Yeah, I think the latter, right?

3:04I mean, crypto is obviously much more global, much more retail. People that are much more fickle in their investment portfolio, kind of like holding periods and the like. So you had that pump into the end of September. I think really people excited. Obviously, October was trending on crypto Twitter. Everybody stopped talking about anything else other than how high Bitcoin and the meme coins and everything else was going. So yeah, as soon as you get this kind of wigs that we got the other night because of the war, people are just quick to turn around and sell, which you don't really have in your traditional equities market.

3:38As you know, a lot of program trading, a lot more institutional deployment in different steps. And it's a lot harder for things to just turn around and dump that ECD, especially when I don't think the thesis has changed for anybody. We got a 50 basis point cut and now we get good economic data, which kind of points towards a soft landing in a less restrictive monetary environment. It's not up only, but it's up in that direction. yeah i think the other thing about crypto is especially for retail traders it's so easy for people to take leverage and i think you know people just got pulled up into that first week of october a ton of leverage out there on bitcoin majors probably even meme coins as well to be honest with you like people trading that stuff on leverage too and when you have like it wasn't really like a black swan event but when you have an unexpected negative headline all that leverage just gets wiped out in one thing and it feels like we haven't really even recovered from that as well because there's probably still quite a lot of leverage in the system is my guess but you had that guy in hyper liquid who got liquidated for like a 14 million dollar loss or something that that people were after i think for a while so i just think when there's like that much leverage in the system it is what creates this volatility and you know maybe that's why we've been underperforming stocks at least in the last few days um we had a a big payrolls number today the The number came in at 245 ,000 versus, 254 ,000 actually, sorry, versus expectations of 140K.

5:08And that was versus last month's new revised number of 159K. So that's like a massive, massive, massive beat that we haven't really seen since like the first half of this year when we're getting those huge beats. And obviously the last three or four months we've had weakish numbers in the kind of like sub 140 to even like sub 100 range. um what do you make of that like how do you think the market is taking that number it's somewhat unexpected does this change in your opinion the monetary policy outlook for the rest of this year um what's your kind of like instant reaction or you know near-term reaction to uh to that number well for me the first reaction is obviously this is going to get revised at some point like every number has been revised over the last year i think that actually one of my, you mentioned our days at Barclays, one of my guilty pleasures of trying to figure out what went into NFP every month and kind of like the birth death model of businesses and how all that kind of affected the number I got reported.

6:07So this is just, you know, a whatever number. I don't think it really represents reality that much. Obviously, we're in a very, very politicized environment. So this is good for the current administration and going for Democrats up in November. Some people are going to try to construct the 50 the basic point cuts as politicized as well, given that this number shows that the economy is stronger. So it really depends on your narrative, right? And like your politics, even like, is this a good economy that maybe the Fed caught too much because of politics? Or is this a bad economy where, you know, the numbers are being made up to help somebody?

6:43So I think it's hard to really make much of this particular instance. I think you'll continue to see just expect, As long as the market doesn't price out any cuts for the rest of the year, I think we'll be fine and we're going in that direction of higher. Now, if you start seeing what we saw today, where the majority were pricing in more cuts, that getting shut down or going to zero, then I think that's going to really be a headwind for risk assets. But when the Fed starts cutting, they just don't stop with their cuts. I think they just pulled it in to the one that they did last month. yeah it looks like markets are still pricing in about 97 probability of a 25 basis point rate cut um you know for for the fomc that will happen this month um there's a tiny probability now of it being a 50 basis point cut but i think you're right it's like we've just been through this like crazy hiking cycle where the fed literally hiked and just raced every month for whatever it was like eight months nine months and then we kept it high for another few months and that's like quite a long process that takes its time to have its effect on the market doesn't get priced like yeah expectations get priced in straight away and future expectations get baked in into equities as well but the actual impact of higher rates or lower rates doesn't get priced in until that actually happens mechanically and like i don't know for example tons of people out there just this is like a really basic anecdotal example but tons of people out there probably have their money if you have fiat you'll probably have it in a savings account and your savings account probably pays you about 5 % right now, which is not bad.

8:18That's pretty decent. And you're just like, oh, well, just stick it in there. I'm just going to earn that 5 % and whatever. But if that goes to 2.5 % or if that one day goes to zero again, you have to redeploy that capital on something riskier. And we just don't see the... And that's just a retail level, right? Think about what it is at an institutional level. The effects are orders of magnitude. So until you actually... Again, stuff gets priced in early, but until you actually physically see these rate cuts happen people don't reallocate assets because they don't need to yet and there's probably a ton of money in like you know low risk high interest rate products out there that will have to reallocate as rates come down and we just haven't seen that mechanically yet so i personally am not fading like the power of sustained consecutive rate cuts over the next six to twelve months but yeah i don't know we'll see maybe so maybe some of it is priced at, I don't know.

9:14Stocks are at all-time highs. Stocks spend like 40 % of their times at all-time highs. I think they're no longer like a leading indicator. They're just a consequence of this economic model that we've built in the West over the last few decades. And so I think for me, obviously, you know, the premise is that's not going away. The big governments have a debt problem. Rates have to come in. You're going to start to see some of the lag defects, as you mentioned, yeah, like risk and stocks and the like, you know, put in and out quite quickly, but stuff like real estate is still a little bit of like a slow moving crash.

9:54You see it in commercial real estate in the big cities in the US, you're starting to see it in residential real estate and some like the hot states, Texas, Arizona, Florida, where a lot of people bought Airbnb and they're not doing so well anymore. So that has kind of frozen the real estate market. So I think it pays to take cues and look at areas beyond just stocks, which are obviously also very top heavy. The indices are very top heavy or just crypto, which again, is more like liquid retail trading in and out, a lot of emotion, a lot of leverage, like you said. And taking a much broader view, I think, the economy, while it's still strong, it's still going to require some more easing or policy normalization really and that should be good for risk overall yeah it's just a it's a weird one because it's like i feel like everything every fundamental aspect right now within the market is like this is good for risk but everyone knows that and so there's an element of it being priced in but i don't know i just think like if you have six months of 25 base point rate cuts you're gonna see that you have things kind of have to be barring like you know geopolitical tensions or other things happening that are obviously negative for markets and those could be like things that we're combating against but yeah i just struggle to see us like not higher um in in risk assets whether that translates to crypto who knows like we haven't really seen it this year happen as we would have expected and you've had years in the past where it hasn't happened for crypto as well like 2019 perhaps is an example um i'm sure i mean i wasn't even around And I wasn't even trading crypto then, but I'm sure in earlier years as well, you probably had this like great down of correlation to stocks.

11:37So I'm curious to see what happens with crypto if these moves keep continuing. But I don't know, in my opinion, it will also have to go higher just as the law of beta and traveling down risk buckets as rates go lower. Yeah, I would challenge that. I think that the whole consensus view that this is the year that crypto should have gone ballistic is wrong. And I think we were talking before the show, people are desperate for a big move considering the very rough last couple of years that we had in this industry. But if you subscribe to the four-year cycle and the like, really the year that was incredible were 21 and 17.

12:17So that means 25 is it. And that's really where you're going to get those six months of rate cuts in. You're going to get a new administration that whether it's Trump or Harris will have to do something to kind of like pump up the economy. And all that confluence of factors really comes to head next year. And Bitcoin is still doing pretty freaking good this year. We were much lower to begin the year. Obviously, we had an early run and giving it back or not really giving it back, but stop the momentum. And that's why people feel bad. Summer was really choppy. But as an asset, it's performed pretty well.

12:53The problem we've had is that a lot of the other stuff is just not done well. A lot of altcoins, all the infrastructure coins, things that people got excited about because they got it for free because there were airdrops. They're just gone one way only. And I think that's why people are pretty pessimistic. But overall, if you're just sitting in Bitcoin and the hottest narrative this year, obviously also Solana, pretty freaking good. I think you'll be happy soon. I think as an industry, we're really good at sacking ourselves out or going the opposite. We saw it last month where people are like, oh, this is new paradigm.

13:28This is going to finally go to 100K. And I think it takes a bit more time than just that and a bunch of tweets going back in either direction. Yeah, I agree. I'm still very bullish here. I'm very bullish on crypto. So I think whatever, there's a lot of leverage. And we had the unfortunate news this week and over the weekend, which caused it to move lower. But I think it's just like another bite at the apple to get some risk on, I think, ahead of the next few months. And yeah, with the Trump, don't forget, with the Trump, if Trump wins, it's going to really change the dynamics of that market, I think.

14:01And if he loses, then maybe it will set us back a few months. But I think it's just very hard not to be bullish here and have some risk on. um i think it's a good segue what you started speaking about is a good segue into the next thing i wanted to chat about which is bitcoin dominance bitcoin dominance is now north of 58 it's at its cycle high um i think we even touched like 58 yeah 58.3 or 58.4 earlier um alts really underperformed in that move lower we saw in the past week um it's not the first time that's happened we've had a we had a pretty tough cycle really for altcoins most altcoins are actually down on the year i mean even eth is i think potentially even down like three or four percent on the year or something um what do you what do you think on bitcoin dominance like is it is it getting to a point where it's starting to top out or is this just the kind of like theme of this cycle because of etfs have you ever wanted to trade bitcoin but haven't dared try With Plus 500 Futures, you can trade crypto without the hassle of opening a wallet.

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15:40With over 20 years of experience, Plus500 is your gateway to the markets. Visit us.plus500.com to learn more. Trading in futures involves the risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify. Plus500, it's trading with a plus. I think it's a theme of the cycle. I think it's also like early cycle still, given the fact that Bitcoin's performing so much better than everything else, tells me that we're not even close to anywhere near the top. But as we were saying, right, like institutional equity investors are much more systematic. They're more disciplined. And to me, this chart, it just looks like ETFs inflow story chart.

16:22That's what it is. There's no other coin other than Ether over the last month and a half that really has that avenue of potential inflows from a much, much larger base of investors. And this is what this shows compared to the fact that a lot of bullshit, sorry, excuse my French again, but just absolute trash tokens have hit the market. And whether we like it or not, they extract capital, they extract the ability for things to perform, and you lose money in those. It might even distract investors from the market where people might just say, instead of buying this infrastructure coin, I'll just buy this infrastructure stock and do a lot better.

17:04And so I think that's what you're seeing in this chart. So the combination of the massive inflows, obviously Larry Fink sold Bitcoin to anybody that will listen, as well as the fact that the majority of new launches this year, not calling out anybody individually, but the reality is those coins don't do anything other than enrich certain early participants. yeah i think i think that's the best description of why we've seen bitcoin do well but we've also seen meme coins do well with some altcoins struggle because it has just been a story of like high fdv low float trend lower into the cliff and once the unlocks schedules start to activate you see things trend lower perpetually because there's just like so much cell pressure by vcs and then And if you saw the Celestia thing last week, which was, who was it?

17:58Which I think Polychain, I may be wrong, but I think it was Polychain that was the investor in that, but they were able to actually, despite the tokens being locked, they were able to earn staking rewards, which were then like selling to the market, like which was unlocked. I think they've already done like a three or four X on staking rules. It was something like a 20 million investment for them. and it's sold like$80 million of staking rewards already, which is kind of nuts. I don't know how something like that is allowed alongside a proper cliff. Yeah, all I say is many such cases and I think people are waking up to that.

18:39And actually, I just finally had an opportunity to watch Murad's video from Token2049 on mincoins. And I have been on Slank when it comes to mincoins just because I've been focused on Popsit and some other stuff going on in my life right now. But watching that video, actually yesterday on a flight, I realized that it actually fit my original thesis for NFTs and what brought me into the space. And so I actually spent the morning kind of looking around, like how do I grow my mean coin back and really start deploying more of the other, you know, stuff that I have in the ecosystem more towards mean coins.

19:15And it's, yeah, Yeah, it was a bit of a paradigm shift for me. And yeah, do I want to own VC tokens? Of course not. Like, why will I do that when there's nothing in this world that's going to create demand for those tokens in this current regulatory environment? Now, if that were to change the Trump administration, I think it would still take a few more years before certain tokens would start up during cash flows and for life. so why waste you know kind of like why be excellent liquidity when you can play in a potentially fair game if you know at the end of the day the majority the reason why people are here are to make money and kind of like find financial independence so let's let's maybe play a game that has a little bit more fair rules rather than you know early investors being able to monetize their investments that are supposed to be locked or protecting you which obviously they have no incentive to do so it's an interesting point but i also feel like the problem people have with investing in meme coins now is the same problem they had with investing in nfts now because you're kind of you're past the point in the circle where it was truly early you know it was truly early on stuff perhaps at moments last year when you had all the pepe stuff and then also um around december last year right before everything kicked off so we're past the point where it's like super early on meme coins in my opinion and i know some people like murab may disagree with me there but um let's just say you're okay you're like okay i'm a crypto investor i've never really played in meme coins before i've had alts and bitcoin now i just own bitcoin i want to base it on to buy some meme coins you look at across the meme coin landscape and there are literally like tons of coins out there just like what the hell do i actually buy and i felt like and and by the way there's no like fundamental real i mean i do actually think there's more analysis to me because than people realize in terms of like understanding memes but and um understanding communities but there's no real like model driven way to look at meme coins and it's very similar to what nfts were like you know people who are early on nfts did really well that cycle and then when it got to a mature point of the market it was just like well what do i what which nfts do i buy they're just like thousands of different projects how do i know what's relevant what's not relevant at least put nfts and artwork you could you know justify some things saying well this was you know the first ever piece of art on chain or this is the a cultural collection like punks that kicked off this movement but you know you don't really have the same sentiments truly on meme coins because yeah there's some culture and community around it but they are just like tradable assets that are fungible and and trade you know much more like fx might trade compared to how art might trade they're two very different um assets in my opinion so like yeah i get it like i think yeah you know it's worth having exposure to me because how does like how do you pick what to buy if you don't have anything you know do you know what i mean like do you just go for the the big ones that's like whiff and pepe and you know doge and shib or as soon as you start dropping below into like the you know sub 1 billion market cap things there's just like a ton of different things to choose and it's just like well what's the difference between if i buy popcat or mog or um i don't know like nero or whatever it is like there's just tons of them out there Yeah, no, I think that's where the fun comes in, right?

22:32And that's why I think Murat's presentation really opened my eyes. I started to look at things from a very fundamental perspective. And that's why I've been mostly in Bitcoin and Solana and Ether this year. But I remember how fun NFTs were to discover the communities and really explore just all the different elements that were arising from the ecosystem's own development. And I think when I look back at the mistakes that I made in NFTs, I didn't trade them. I bought them and helped them. You guys traded them and did really, really well, right? So I think with MIM coins, that's it. You just can't fall in love with it where you just write it all the way down.

23:12I think you need to be very just aware of the fact that these are just trading vehicles. And I think they can be a good opportunity to make money in the space. I'll rephrase that. there are much better opportunities to make money in the space than other types of vehicles. Assuming that you understand that there's a possibility this goes to absolute zero, and it's mostly just a gamble, and you just want to participate in the ecosystem from that perspective, which NFTs were at some point. I think a lot of us were very delusional when it came to like, this is a new paradigm. Like, no, a lot of the stuff was not.

23:48And a lot of the stuff was just a result of the huge liquidity wave. in early 2021, which, by the way, I think maybe not as big, but it's coming back. It will potentially be crypto and within that main points. Advocating for anybody to have a large, large bag of main points. I do think that, for example, I've been missing having some fun in crypto lately. I think I'm going to double down at least on the time that I spend just researching more and trying to figure out what's driving this because I honestly missed most of it. yeah it's not it's definitely has not been as fun as like nft mania of 2021 like trading nfts and collecting nfts it was just like way more enjoyable and trade mean cause kind of fun but it's just like you kind of get a bit brain dead after a while it's just like oh this is just like another number that i'm pushing around whereas at least there was another element to nfts that you could appreciate and enjoy you know like the excitement of like minting a new collection and your mint was unrevealed and figuring out you're finding out what you were going to get and that kind of like lottery aspect, it's like buying a packet of football stickers and seeing what you get.

24:56That feeling, I think I definitely miss. And you don't really get that in Mean Coins, which is why I think NFTs will come back again. But maybe we have to wait a while. I don't disagree. But in the current state, I don't think we're going to have fun NFT mints for a while because the market's so saturated with the ones from 21 and there's so many back holders and bad memories. I think that for anybody looking to maybe understand crypto culture a little bit better, it really is going to be in like main point communities, rather than it's going to be on like infrastructure tokens or base taking tokens or any of those things that frankly are even hard to understand the technology behind it.

25:35And a lot of it is just pure vaporware. And so, yeah, if you want to have fun and just enjoy crypto while things kind of like heat up again, I think it's a bit of a journey to understand a little bit more of what drives this market. And it could be an edge down the line. Don't know if that's going to materialize or not, but definitely better than just watching your airdrop tokens just completely meltdown. Yeah, definitely. Well, one altcoin that has done pretty well this year, and especially in the last few weeks, is SUI, which has been, I think, the strongest performing L1 probably in the last month or so as it reaches quite close to year-to-date highs.

26:14I think it's been almost like it's been over a 2x in the last three or four weeks. And that's also despite quite a large unlock as well. And I think right now there's about 28 % of the supply circulating within the market. And the rest of it is due to, you know, come to market and be unlocked over time. But that's a pretty strong performance for that token, all things considered. And it's quite a notable outperformance versus other L1s. If you looked at Sui at all or gotten involved and, you know, I'm seeing the Sui ecosystem kick off and i'm seeing people look at nfts there and um meme coins and sui and all that kind of stuff but if you is this something that you've looked at like what do you make of uh make of this performance no i think it always comes up when i come uh you know be a guest on your guys's show and i always tell myself i should go look into it and then i totally i just see the notifications of like you know finance bought like you know sui stopped short i'm like god this keeps going up and I've been chasing it mentally since like 0.77 and it's what, like 180 now?

27:25I think within crypto, one of the things I've learned personally is just stick to your areas of strength or areas of focus. So you don't spread yourself too thin. And I've kind of like mentally put aside some of this stuff as I focus one on Popset and two, and just try and re-engage with this new generation of what crypto has become. And I miss this, just like I miss so many other things, but I'm happy for everybody that caught it. I think narrative-wise, it's probably the next Solana kind of thing where people are seeing the success of Solana and its ecosystem and how maybe having a more, dare I say, centralized approach to the foundation and encouraging development and obviously, you know, Breakpoint was such a success because the Solana team is so focused on kind of like shepherding the ecosystem in a certain direction that people are expecting, you know, another high-performance change like Sui to kind of run that same playbook.

28:26And that's the closest I've come to just that making that mental parallel and chatting with Mando when you've been out. I think my view on this, and this is like a very basic, basic, basic view, but i think when you're comparing these l1s now it's just it's just marketing it's like whichever one is is really good at marketing themselves and establishing a community like at the end of the day yeah if you use solana over mainnet it's definitely way cheaper it's definitely way faster um although i don't even know how yeah sometimes i feel like it's even slow sometimes but if you use solana versus any other l2 the performance is like pretty similar in my opinion and um you know maybe solana's still cheaper but like we're talking about like pennies and fractions of pennies here so it's not that big a difference for anyone for any regular way person so you know i've used like i've used um injectives like stuff in the cosmos ecosystem i've used say and yeah they're all like fast and and cheap so it's just like i don't really apart from a blockchain being faster and cheaper how else can you really differentiate yourself to anything else and i think that's just activity levels and where does activity levels come from well it really comes from like marketing and community and right now to be honest this year it's really just come from like meme point activity like solana's been driven purely by meme coins and not even you know it's nft market um by any means and that's why solana dex volumes have been higher than eth dex volumes on many occasions so um i think i feel like the thing that flipped on sui for me was like there was that moment a few weeks ago where like every KOL was speaking about it again and you started to see like a couple of meme corners do well on Sui people make money on it and I was like oh I'm actually seeing this like I'm not a Sui follower but I'm seeing this on my timeline this is now like infiltrates itself through to my timeline because people are making money on that chain and when you see people having success on something you just jump on the band bag and that's it's like a really I guess dystopian way to look at all these blockchains and probably a punch in the face so anyone who's like spent time building these blockchains and can tell you about the actual technical aspects of them and why one's better than the other but honestly like you just want to make your chain the casino and the one where all the dgens congregate on and that's how you get a lot of activity and that's how you get high price action and that's why ETH did so well in 2021 because everyone was just like using ETH to trade NFTs and you're like in your head you're like man like I'm using ETH so much all the time.

31:00It makes me so bullish, ETH. And it's the same with Sol this year. So that's what I'm like. I'm kind of starting to see the signs of that on Sui. I think it's still early to tell. And, you know, to move an entire meme, you know, to have like insane meme connectivity on Sui that's sustained is going to be tough because we've seen it happen on Tron, kind of died away. Had like moments on Binance Smart Chain this year, which kind of died away. So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's going to be a marketing community thing, but you get a few meme coins that do really well in Sui and people start making millions of dollars out of thousands of dollars of costs.

31:41I think it's of base costs. I think it could have potential then. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing in crypto that does better advertising that making the early holders or early participants rich, right? We saw it with every single thing from Bitcoin through Ethereum, MyTOs, NFTs, meme coins. So I'll tell you what, to talk about marketing, so we through what looked to be a really fun party at token 2049 at Marquee. I was in and out in like 30 minutes because I was really jet lagged. But yeah, if that's what's capturing market share, is that what's making people really want to own and be part of the community, then they're doing a good job.

32:18And you can see it reflected on the chart, obviously. I will put it on my to-do list And maybe next time that I'm here, I'll give you my report back on what I thought about it. Yeah. Yeah. Curious to hear what you say. In other news, we have the SEC looking to actually appeal the Ripple Securities law ruling. What do you make of that? That's the headline that I did not really expect to see this week. Definitely a bit of a strange one. I mean, at this point, what do you expect of the SEC? They're just clowning. You know, with all due respect to the people that work there are trying to do their job.

33:00It's clear that leadership has completely lost the plot. They failed to protect investors. They're just on like some sort of, I don't know, mission, personal mission to like destroy an industry for absolutely no other reason than a personal vendetta. And yeah, this is, again, just like kind of like They're trying to beat a dead horse. They've done nothing to prevent anybody from getting rock pool. They've gone after legit projects. They've engaged in really, really bad ways and pretty much trying to trample the rights of U.S. people by acting this way. So what do I expect from the SEC? Hopefully change soon.

33:43And yeah, I think the SEC plays a very important role in America And I think it was built on the right foundation to really protect the little guy from being screwed over by the smart or kind of like, you know, those snake oil salespeople. But instead, it's sales become just like this weird kind of place where things go to die, technology goes to die. And if they were actually helping people not get rock-pulled and people not get defrauded, then okay, fine. Maybe deliver collateral damage is to be expected of a human organization. But they stop FTX? No. They stop anything else, Celsius and anything else?

34:28No. But if they stop anything but maybe Unisop running on the FIA switch, which at the end of the day, it's just stupid. So what do I expect from the SEC? Nothing good. And I hope for change. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a clown show. They turned a blind eye to everything that was happening with FTX, which is the actual thing that people genuinely lost a shit ton of money on. I know they're going after all this other stuff like Coinbase, which is a US company registered in the New York Stock Exchange. It's like completely American. They're kind of sort of like shooting themselves in the foot. But it's an interesting one because, you know, So I think there was a$125 million fine imposed on Ripple, which was quite a significant amount below the$2 billion the SEC was targeting.

35:16So quite a disparity in the outcome. But I think the thing that will be interesting to follow with this is they've just filed a notice of appeal, and the actual appeal itself often comes a month after the notice is filed. So that's probably going to lapse the election, and there's been a lot of chatter about obviously Gensler stepping down and I can't remember his name, but the guy who was head of like the crypto unit at SEC and was responsible for leading, you know, dozens of cases against crypto as well. He's also stepped down as well. So, you know, I've heard, obviously I think Gensler is out the door if Trump wins, but I've also heard lots of people saying Gensler is also out the door even if Kamala wins as well.

36:02So I'm curious to see, especially on this case, which obviously in the SEC versus Ripple was a very large case in the last three years. I'm curious to see if we see this appeal get withdrawn in the next few months, because their father noticed they have to now work on this appeal and we'll see it over the next few months, but that will lapse the election. So I think that'll be very telling of whether the wins are actually truly finally changing at the SEC or if they're not. I mean, it's this versus XRP, ETF getting approved, right? pretty much like real life holy market in that what is it going to be?

36:36The appeal gets filed and it makes sense or the ETF gets moved and then that gets going. I don't know, man. I just hope for change and for progress and technology to be champion in the US and everywhere else, which is what's really been the difference between our society versus others, that ability to encourage entrepreneurship and technology and make lives better. So yeah, hope for that. So moving on to something a bit more interesting, there is going to be an HBO documentary coming up next Tuesday, I believe, which claims to reveal the true identity of Satoshi Nakamoto, the so-called founder of Bitcoin.