Surfing the AI Tsunami w/ Peter H. Diamandis & Salim Ismail

19 Jun 2023 · 1 h 6 min

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Podcast Summary: Surfing the AI Tsunami w/ Peter H. Diamandis & Salim Ismail

Podcast Details

  • Title: Real Vision: Finance & Investing
  • Episode Title: Surfing the AI Tsunami
  • Guests: Peter H. Diamandis, Founder and Executive Chairman of XPRIZE Foundation; Salim Ismail, Author of Exponential Organizations
  • Description: A discussion focusing on the impact of AI on corporate America, exploring the concepts of exponential organizations, and the need for companies to adapt to technological changes.

Key Themes Exponential Organizations

  • The discussion begins with the evolution of companies and the need for organizations to adopt an exponential mindset. Diamandis and Ismail revisit their foundational ideas from their earlier work on exponential organizations (EXOs) and emphasize the 11 attributes that define successful companies today, especially in the post-COVID landscape.

The Role of AI

  • AI is highlighted as a transformative force that companies must embed into their operations to remain competitive. Key points include:
  • Companies that don’t leverage AI risk being outpaced by competitors that do.
  • The necessity of embedding AI into product development, marketing, and customer service.
  • The suggestion for companies to appoint a Chief AI Officer responsible for navigating AI integration.

Current Corporate Landscape

  • Fortune 500 companies are portrayed as being in a state of confusion regarding AI adoption, often likened to "deer in the headlights."
  • The importance of changing corporate structures and mindsets, particularly in hiring talent that can navigate the new digital landscape.

The Five Stages of Grief in Corporate America

  • Diamandis and Ismail discuss how companies are experiencing the five stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) as they come to terms with the rapid pace of technological change, particularly with AI.

Mindset Adaptation

  • Emphasis is placed on the need for leaders to cultivate specific mindsets:
  • Curiosity Mindset: Embracing continuous learning and adaptation.
  • Purpose-Driven Mindset: Aligning organizational goals with purpose to attract talent.
  • Exponential Mindset: Understanding that growth and change are happening at an exponential rate, necessitating new approaches to business.

Data as a Resource

  • A key takeaway is the value of data in today's economy. Diamandis suggests that data is the new gold, and leveraging AI to extract insights from vast amounts of data can lead to significant competitive advantages.
  • Examples illustrate how AI can revolutionize various industries, from healthcare to legal practices, by helping professionals make better-informed decisions based on comprehensive data analysis.

Challenges and Ethical Considerations

  • The hosts discuss societal challenges surrounding AI, including potential job losses due to automation and the ethical implications of AI's capabilities.
  • The need for a balance between embracing AI for efficiency while ensuring ethical standards and considerations are maintained.

Advice for Future Generations

  • Diamandis shares three critical pieces of advice for young people:
  • Find a passion and purpose.
  • Learn to ask great questions.
  • Develop grit and resilience.

Closing Thoughts

  • Both guests advocate for an optimistic outlook towards the future of AI and its potential to enhance humanity's capabilities.
  • Listeners are encouraged to engage with AI as a co-pilot in their personal and professional lives, emphasizing the incredible opportunities that technology presents.

Resources

  • Book: Exponential Organizations 2.0 - A guide to understanding the attributes of successful modern organizations.
  • Workshop: Free three-hour masterclass offered by Diamandis, providing insights into AI and exponential thinking.

Final Notes The podcast emphasizes the importance of adapting to technological advancements and the potential for AI to revolutionize industries if integrated thoughtfully into organizational practices. Diamandis and Ismail stress that embracing change, fostering a culture of innovation, and prioritizing purpose are crucial for survival and success in today's fast-evolving market landscape.

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Transcript

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1:24And now to the top analysis of today's markets.

1:36What happens when companies adopt an exponential mindset? How can they leverage technology and innovation to transform? And where does AI fit in? To discuss, I'm pleased to welcome Peter Diamandis, the founder and chairman of the XPRIZE Foundation, and Salim Ismail, bestselling author of Exponential Organizations. Hello, gentlemen. Welcome. Good to be here. Hey, Maggie. Good to see you again. Thanks so much for being with us. I mean, this is the topic on everyone's mind. But Peter, I'm curious, let's start with you. What is happening or what was the impetus that prompted the two of you to go back, revisit exponential organizations in this new form?

2:14So, Salim and I first met each other in 2008, thereabouts, when we were starting Singularity University up in Silicon Valley. And what became obvious over the course of the next five years was all of these exponential technologies, computation, sensors, networks, AI, robotics, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR, blockchain. These technologies were reinventing companies, industries. and there was something different going on than the way we build businesses even 20 years ago, let alone 30 or more years ago. And Salim coined the phrase exponential organizations. And we worked on a book together at the same time my book Bold was coming out.

3:00So Salim was the primary author on EXO, the first book, and at the same time was doing Bold. And then it's accelerated. It's just become, you know, not 10 times, 100 times more dominant. And so we said now in 2023, post-COVID, there's so much extraordinary data that if you're a startup at the beginning of your journey, you must be including these 11 attributes and building a company that's going to impact the world. Or if you're a large organization wanting to survive the decade ahead, you're going to have to re-engineer yourself to utilize these attributes. And time to get the information out to the world.

3:42Yeah. You know, we talk a lot about the exponential age on Real Vision. You know, it's a talk book we cover a lot, so we love it. Salim, where does AI specifically fit into this? I mean, it sort of, you know, came crashing in. And obviously, it's been happening behind the scenes, but we're now also aware of it. How does that plug into what's happening and how you guys are thinking about this topic? Yeah, you know, it's AI along with multiple other technologies like blockchain and so on have been moving along somewhat deceptively. We've been tracking LLMs for a few years now. And now that they're in the public eye, it's clear as Peter talks about this.

4:19He says, you know, in the next few years, either you're heavily embedding AI into everything you do or you're not going to be around. And so therefore, all products and services now will be enabled and augmented using AI and algorithms going forward. And you have to take that into account, either to be competitive or to leverage new opportunities or to enter new markets. Both of you, where do you think corporate America is right now with this? Do you think Fortune 500 companies have an understanding of AI? Are they scrambling to try to keep up? Where are we? What's the status? I think they're deer in the headlights, mostly.

4:56I think they are scrambling. And I think they're going to see a lot of changeover at the heads of companies and in the boards, eventually, because they're going to falter. You know, it's interesting. The way I've seen it described and it's accurate, it's AI is not going to put your company out of business. It's your competitor using AI that's going to put you out of business. Right. And so one of the things I talk about in our book, Exponential Organizations 2.0, and one of the things I talk about with the companies I advise and invest in is every company needs to identify or hire or anoint a chief AI officer.

5:39And this is a person who is reporting directly to the CEO, maybe dotted line to the CTO, and can be reporting also into the board that is not creating large language models or writing all the algorithms. This is a person who understands what's going on in the field, is watching all the different players because there's like 50 ,000 startups coming into existence right now. And that's probably a low estimate. And understanding the strategies, the directions, what the big players are doing and not doing, and then being able to say, okay, we need to be utilizing these technologies in marketing, these technologies in our R &D division, these technologies in our customer service division.

6:23and constantly, you know, the analogy I use, Maggie, is surfing on top of a tsunami instead of being crushed by it. And so your chief IA officer is helping you surf rather than pulling you out of the waves. Yeah, but that's sort of terrifying, isn't it, Salim, when companies hear this. I think Peter's right. They're deer in the headlights because they're thinking, okay, I don't have that. We already know it's sort of a talent war. How do I wrap my head around this? I mean, how can I possibly keep up? Because this thing is moving. at an exponential rate. There's actually, they go through like the five stages of grief, like denial, and then anger, and then acceptance, et cetera.

6:59And the problem is the opportunity cost of that overall time cycle is very long. We found about Singularity, we had the CEOs of all the big companies coming through. And we found that when they first heard about disruptive technologies, it actually took them about three years to do anything about it. And that opportunity cost is infinite today. So today they have to react quickly. And I think Peter's observation is dead on. They're like deer in the headlights. I think of big companies as bifurcating two paths. They're the visionary leaders that are taking this on and going full out and enabling themselves.

7:32And then there's the deer in the headlights ones. For example, we first met Paul Pullman in 2015. He was the CEO of Unilever. Read the book. He ordered every brand in Unilever to take on a massive transformative purpose and be purpose-driven going forward. And four years later, the five most profitable brands are the ones that adopted it the most, right? So you have that type of leader that fully takes it on, embraces it, goes both feet in. And then there are the deniers that are trying to do things their old way and go back to the old, trying to kind of save the old models. And those are the ones that mostly will be defunct.

8:05Hey, everyone, we're going to take a quick break right now to hear a word from our partners. We'll be right back with more of the Today's top analysis on the Real Vision Daily Briefing.

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9:18Yeah. I mean, Peter, I feel like you've always had this mindset because, you know, we talked about your many different ventures and, you know, moving into space. And then in the VC, you seem to sort of have the exponential mindset. Can, before we get into some of the specifics, can everyone do this? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I close out this book with Salim. In the final chapter, we talk about mindsets required for building an exponential organization, being an exponential entrepreneur, surfing the tsunami of change. And what I say is, listen, if you think about it for yourself, if you look at the greatest leaders of all time, you know, whether it's Elon Musk.

10:03or Jeff Bezos, or Steve Jobs today, or Mahatma Gandhi, or Martin Luther King, whomever it might be. And you ask yourself, what made them a great leader? Was it the network of people they had? Was it their technology? Was it their money? Or was it their mindset? Most everybody will say, was their mindset, how they dealt with opportunity, how they dealt with challenge. And so if mindset is the most important thing for you to be a great leader, to be an entrepreneur successfully. What mindset do you have, right? Where did you get it? And what mindset do you need for, you know, the decade ahead? And I find people just do not ask that question enough.

10:41So we talk about in the book, a number of mindsets, a curiosity mindset, a purpose-driven mindset, an exponential mindset, an abundance mindset, and a moonshot mindset, and finally a gratitude mindset. An exponential mindset is a realization that the world is accelerating. We're seeing things, you know, in 30 linear steps, you know, pacing out the front of your door, you're 30 meters away. In 30 exponential steps, you're a billion meters. You know, you've gone around the planet 26 times and our brain doesn't grok exponentials. You can parrot them, but you can't really intuit them. And so the only way I know how to do it is to constantly update yourself on this is now possible in AI or in 3D printing or in synthetic biology.

11:29And it's constantly updating your understanding of what can be done per dollar, per human hour, per resource, and being able to plan and run your company with the latest cutting edge tool. Yeah, just for example, we have leaders running companies based on 20, 30 years of intuition on how to handle supply chain for South America, for some big CPG company, for example. And today you need to be totally evidentiary based, run a hundred experiments, see the data that comes back, and then ruthlessly follow the data because the world is changing so fast, your intuition no longer applies. So we have to basically unlearn 50 years of Harvard MBA thinking and relearn these new models.

12:14Yeah, I like that. I feel like people have that sense, right? Like you keep hearing, well, the old way is not working, but it's forging your way through the new and trying to wrap your head around it. So it's probably worth taking a step and we're focused on AI. And I know it's not the book. There's a lot in it. I think we'll back into some of it. But because AI is the question we get the most from viewers, what do I do? What does it mean? How is this going to affect me? And we like to think we have a learning tribe. So I think it's very they're leaning into it. But so so, Peter, when what does AI do for companies?

12:57What makes it so valuable that if you don't embrace it, you're going to be dead? Everything. So first of all, we're living in a world of massive data, right? Your most important asset as a leader, as a company, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner is ultimately your data. And we are able to get so much data from all of the sensors, all the information. Could be emails you get, your sales information, your conversations with customers. anything. We're living in a world of a trillion sensor data. An autonomous car driving down the street with all of its sensors is pulling in gigabits of data.

13:37And so that data is liquid gold or digital gold. And what you can do with it is a huge amount if you want to extract insights. You know, I like to say that, you know, there's nothing we can't know. Like, for example, if you're making, you know, men's jackets, and you want to know, hey, what's the average color of a man's sports jacket walking down Manhattan, you can know the answer. You can have cameras that are imaging guys and doing a spectral analysis of it. And you can see how it's changing over time. There's a correlate with ad campaigns. I mean, that's just a crazy example of what you can do.

14:16And so there's no way a human can analyze all that data. That is machine learning at its best. There's two examples I love to use. One is, you know, there are 2 ,500 cancer research papers published per day today. If you're a cancer doctor, there's no way you can keep track of that. So you need an AI to help manage that, read that, all of that, and then surface the ones that are most relevant for the patients that you have that are dealing with those particular cancers. The other example is, I think, comes from Steven Pinker. He studied a thousand parole hearings on whether you should let prisoners out for jail or not.

14:53And it turned out that if you came up for parole after lunch and the judges were hungry, you were going back to jail. If you came up, sorry, before lunch and they were hungry, if you came up for lunch, a parole after lunch and they were biologically happier because they'd eaten, 30 % more likely that you'd go free. And this isn't people trained to be impartial, right? So what hope is there for the rest of us? You could never spot that before because now we can use AI to find these perturbations, find these biases, because we all have sunk cost bias, positivity bias, framing bias, et cetera. And we can use AI to help find those and correct for them now.

15:28I love that example because I think that there is maybe a perception that if you're in the business of data, so cancer research, disease prevention, disease cures, medicine, comes up a lot because I think we all understand that, you know, doctors working in silos where if you could tap all of the research and advances, but the other example kind of points to something else. So this sounds like it's applicable beyond just data heavy industry. I call the old way of doing things, Maggie, the tyranny of confidence. That in the old days, you'd have an expert who was super confident, right? You paid them to be an expert.

16:07And they would come up with an answer of the color the blouses should be or the marketing slogans or so forth. And that's one human's opinion. Maybe they have a bunch of experiences, but you actually can run the experiments to find out what the check writers are thinking at scale. And, you know, experimentation and building an experimental organization into the culture is one of the 11 attributes that we talk about in the book. And that's far more important. And that's data-driven experimentation with AI and algorithms analyzing it and giving you that information on a constant basis so you can update as things change.

16:49And it's like having magical superpowers. It's so interesting you say that. So is intuition dead? Is sort of that original idea dead? I think intuition and original ideas are going to be complemented. One of the ideas around AI is that there's going to be a co-pilot for every role. So if you're a medical doctor, you're going to have an AI co-pilot. It will be malpractice to diagnose someone without AI in the loop in five years, right? If you're a lawyer, you have AI helping you analyze everything. If you're an artist, if you're a writer, if you're a CEO, hopefully someday if you're a government leader, you're going to have AI to help you as well.

17:35And so, you know, I mean, I'll give you a crazy example. I run a community called Abundance 360, a bunch of 360 CEOs that I mentor. And we run these workshops on AI. And we were, when ChatGPT first began, we were talking about how to use it in the invention business. and one of my members said, I just used ChatGPT to help me understand what some patents were. Like I put the patent number in this, explain it to me in English and they do. And then I said, they said, this is my company. This is what we do. And here are two patent numbers. Please tell me how we could use these patents to create a new product in my company.

18:18And it did. And it's like, this is the amazing world we're living in. So I think that's a really important distinction because it's part of the resistance, isn't it, to think that we're just outsourcing all thinking to AI. And so, you know, what's the, some people just don't believe it or there's a fear around the fact that it takes over everything. That has to be something you encounter, Salim, when you talk to people about this. All the time. And I think the way we frame it is you're outsourcing thoroughness, right? I have two things of what I might try, but the AI is going to come up with six more that I should think about.

18:56And now I have eight things to look at, and that's the power. And I could spend a lot of time researching to find the next three or four, but it's going to give them all to me on a platter, and then I can choose from that. The reason we say intuition is dead is because you built your reputation and your business career based on markets that didn't change very often. And you had a deep sense of if this happens, then this is how I need to think about what suppliers may be able to operate, et cetera. But in a world that's changing this volatility, right, where things are changing drastically every three months today, no amount of intuition can help you.

19:31Your prior experience doesn't help you. Therefore, you have to be experimentally data-driven and ruthless about that and step away from your own intuition and your previous biases you may bring to the table. Yeah. So it's not intuition alone, but it is being guided by all of this data that you can harness. Exactly. You know, for example, the best chess players are now the humans with an AI alongside. And we'll see that in medicine and legal and healthcare and so on. Yeah. But everything. It's not just, I think because there's, you know, we know the lawyers are scared. We know a couple of people are scared, but there is this sense that it's in certain areas, but you are both making the argument that it's every single company is going to have to travel with this.

20:17Are you using ChatGPT to ask me questions right now? Is that popping up? You know what? It's funny. No, but I should have. And this is part of the change of mindset, because people definitely are. So one thing that struck me as I was looking through the exponential 2.0, the exponential organizations, something you said, Peter, that AI must be preceded by the adoption of a company's MTP, their massive transformative purpose. What do you mean by that? And why is that the starting point? Because I think that sounds like that's very important. Quick history here. When we put the book together in 2014, we looked at 200 of the fastest growing companies and said, how are they doing this?

21:10How is Uber scaling by tapping to other people's cars and drivers and Airbnb out of people's bedrooms? And so essentially the model is really not something that we invented. We were basically labeling things that were actually happening anyway. one thing we noticed that every single one of these fast-growing companies had this mtp google organizer world's information uber everybody's private drivers and it turned out they all had it and that's where we got really fascinated about it and peter drill drills a great deal into why yeah so listen there what you're going to see when you get the book or if you join us for any of our workshops here, is you are going to see the importance of an MTP, a massive transformative purpose, as the very first step.

21:55And then 10 different attributes after that that all these companies, most of these companies, utilize. And these attributes all stick together. We'll talk through that here. But an MTP is the North Star. It's the guiding light. It's the thing that drives the emotional energy. Doing anything big and bold in the world is hard. You know, I jokingly say it's an overnight success after 11 years of hard work, right? And most people see these overnight successes and they don't realize that there was a huge amount of work going after them. And over the course of that time, you're going to hit roadblock after roadblock and failures and problems and shiny objects that will distract you to the right or left.

22:38and it's that massive transformative purpose that keeps you going and keeps you aligned. It's also if you have a sufficient, you know, a powerful massive transformative purpose that you exude from your pores and you shout from the mountaintops. It's what brings the top employees to come and work with you, right? It's what attracts capital to you. People want significance in life. I think they want it more than they want capital. They want to be, they want to know that they're working on something big and important on the planet and your mtp guides that and so what i say is and we teach we in the ais that we provide to people uh through the book and our workshops um you get access to these free ais that will help you shape your mtp and shape your moonshot and your mtp is going to be either born out of positive emotional energy like awe like for me My first companies were all about space.

23:35It was like, I want to open the space frontier. Star Trek and Apollo showed me where the world is going. And I built companies to move me in that awe-inspired direction. Or it could be pain. Like, I refuse to let this go any further, right? So my last 10 years and half a billion investing in startups in the biotech and health area is I refuse to let the healthcare system, which sucks, go on any further. We're going to crush it. We're going to reinvent it. This idea that you die at 80 or 85 or 90. No, we're going to extend the healthy human lifespan, right? So there has to be that emotional energy to do anything significant.

24:12And that comes from having a clear, massive, transformative purpose for you as the company leadership and the company itself. We're going to take another quick break to hear a word from our partners. We'll be right back with more of the day's top analysis on the Real Vision Daily Briefing.

24:34This begs the important question, doesn't it? The chicken and the egg. So some companies, and we know are very many, are either driven or pressured by short-term shareholder, you know, quarterly, quarterly. So they're going to try to say, AI, how can this help me make money? How can this help me make my numbers? it sounds like there's a bit of work to do if you're going to successfully harness it, because you've got to have some of these other things lined up. Is that right? It's true. You do have to have other things lined up. But what it starts with big companies that are already existing, the MTP becomes first the brand promise, and then you start to deliver later on.

25:12You find the business operations and the strategies that will help deliver that. I mentioned the Paul Pullman example already. I met the CEO of Gucci who said, I will turn Gucci into an exponential organization. And he's been moving his company in adding in all these attributes over time. We found more and more that CEOs are taking this on and taking it on from a purpose. Because for hiring and recruiting for talent retention, it becomes more and more critically important, especially the younger generation, the Manolians that are very purpose driven. Of course, once you hire them, you have to manage them, which is a whole other thing.

25:45Do you work for a company whose MTP is like better shareholder returns, or we're going to put humanity on the surface of Mars, right? I mean, it's like one of them wakes you up and keeps you going all night long. Yeah. I think to your point, you see the shift happening in real time, right? You sort of have that structure where it's really based on compensation and money and salary. And then a generation coming up where that's just, not that they don't want that, but that in and of itself isn't enough. And there's been, and post-COVID, COVID really showed that, quiet quitting, all that. I don't really think it's that.

Read the full transcript

26:20I think it's this mismatch on purpose, really. And then there's alignment inside the organization, right? And everybody knows that where our MTP is to cure cancer, then as they're working through their day-to-day projects and evaluating and making decisions, the more decentralized the organization, the more powerful and important the MTP is because it acts, as Peter said, that North Star. How does AI, how do we need to think about, someone mentioned blockchain before, How do AI and these other emerging technologies interrelate? What's the intersection? Do they stack? Do you have to get your head around expertise in one in order to build and use them all?

27:04Does it depend on the type of company you are? How are you thinking about the intersection? Salim, should we go through the five internal and five external attributes and then we can relate them back to AI? Maggie, if that works for you. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. Let me make a quick point before we get into that. There's a really important premise that's the starting point of all this. Peter references as the six Ds. You digitize, then you have a deceptive phase, then you dematerialize, demonetize, dematerialize products and services into a new model. Music is a classic example that's gone through cassettes and DVDs and now it's all streaming services, right?

27:40We're going to see education, healthcare, energy all follow that path. Well, in that new world where multiple technologies are intersecting to form radical opportunity spaces, then the EXO and the attributes that we've identified give you the organizing principles for operating in a highly volatile, unbelievable upside type of world. And so that's the premise and the starting point and the rationale and the starting thesis for this. So we start with the MTP, which is the massive transformative purpose. Then we found there were five externalities that many of these companies were using that allowed them to keep a very small feature footprint and then scale very quickly using some of these.

28:18So the first one is staff on demand that Uber uses where it doesn't hire its own drivers. The second one is community and crowd. Hold on. Let's just slow it down. So staff on demand, if you have a large population of drivers or a large population of Airbnb homeowners, AI is going to help you manage that. Right. So if you are turning some portion of the eight billion people out there into your community that you're using, you have a relationship with that community, not necessarily paying them. Some of them are doing stuff for free. They're helping you market, helping you promote because they love what you're doing.

28:59Or that community may become your staff on demand. That requires massive amount of AI to manage. So that's, I'm going to plug AI back into everything as promised. So that's staff on demand. And let me ask a question here. One of the issues that comes up with AI, and let's say the intersection of, say, AI and robotics, is that it's going to result in massive job losses. It's going to be very, very deflationary, and you're going to see no more lawyers, certainly no more legal assistants. And there's a lot of fear around that. And you can imagine in the political sphere that that's also going to be a rub.

29:42Do we have to change the way we think about labor? We go nuts when we hear that conversation. We hate it. The reason is that none of the data supports it. Right? Let me give you a clear example. In the 1970s, we created the ATM machines. And there was all this hand-waving and ringing going, oh, my God, what will we do with millions of bank tellers that will be out of work? And lots of consternation and thinking, should we do this? Should we preserve the jobs, et cetera? What actually happened was that the cost of running a branch dropped by 10 times. The banks ended up creating 10 times more branches.

30:13and the number of bank tellers has not changed at all. And we see the same thing with truck drivers. The most robotic automated countries in the world are Korea, Sweden, Germany. And they also happen to be the countries with the lowest unemployment rates. So it turns out when you don't automate, you don't lose jobs. You just increase capacity and you do a ton more. So yes, we may automate legal thinking. Unfortunately, we won't get rid of the lawyers. We'll just have 10 times better contracts. There is a potential to say that a number of different categories of jobs will be eliminated because algorithms or AIs will do better.

30:50And the question is, were those jobs that individuals really wanted in the first place? Two things are going to happen. There'll be a transitory period during which those individuals are partnering with AIs. Again, an AI co-pilot in every area. And then there'll be a point in which people can really pursue what they dreamed about doing versus what job was available to them to put food on the table or get insurance for their family. We're talking about staff on demand. Yeah. What else is a component? The second one is community and crowd. So TED has done an amazing job of building its brand using community and TEDx events.

31:28XPRIZE does an amazing job of incentivizing the crowd to come and solve major problems. And obviously use AI pretty heavily there to manage interactions between community members, help to optimize value creation between community members and so on. So and managing the crowd, obviously, then also becomes a fairly intensive, labor intensive and data intensive process, which then AI can help. So that's where the second one. The third one is AI and algorithms where that's embedded deeply into it. Clearly, Uber, for example, has matching algorithms to match driver and passenger based on location, similar ratings, et cetera, et cetera.

32:06The fourth one is leveraged assets. So Airbnb leveraging and tapping to other people's bedrooms. And what they've done here is information enabled those properties so that people can choose where to stay. And again, you have a matching process with AI supporting that. The classic leveraged asset is cloud computing. In fact, that's the birthplace of NEXO is when Amazon Web Services launched because you could take computing off the balance sheet and make it a truly variable cost. And so fairly heavy use of AI and algorithms there. And the final one is engagement for all these externalities. This is gamification in center prizes, Web3 crypto economics that allow you to manage and connect with your community and your user base and optimize their interaction and optimize loyalty, run promotions within that and so on.

32:53And it's all big data. It's all AI driven. And it's it's real time. Yeah. If I want my community to have this behavior, I want them taking these courses. I want them watching these videos. How do you incentivize that? Right. So when my fraternity brothers, Michael Saylor at MicroStrategies has just built a system where they're going to use Satoshi's basically, you know, a fraction of a Bitcoin. that if you are at your meeting on time, or if you take some extra coursework at night, or if you watch the proper training materials, you get some Satoshis in your wallet. And it's engaging and rewarding.

33:37So very interesting strategies. We found along all of this research, some of the kind of the stellar companies and new models that are emerging. For example, in engagement, there's a model called Octalysis, where they've taken eight major human motivations like epic meaning and fear of missing out and scarcity and social inclusion, et cetera, and mapped 150 gaming techniques and engagement techniques to those. Easter eggs, leaderboards, progress bars. So if you want to incentivize scarcity, you do these things. If you want to increase the feeling of epic meaning in your community, you do those things.

34:09So now we can create a prescriptive engagement model for our user base, right? And so there's some amazing companies doing things in staff on demand. There's a company called MBO Partners that manages all of your contractors for your onboarding, offboarding, background checks, etc. So these services are popping up to help augment your capability in all of these attributes. So those five attributes, staff on demand, community algorithms, leveraged assets, and engagement are five externalities that many of these companies use one or more of to scale quickly. Then we found five internal mechanisms that map to the acronym IDEAS.

34:45And so the first one is interfaces. Like Uber has a very customized interface in interacting with its drivers or TED with its TEDx community members or XPRIZE with all of the contestants that are operating. And that's a very, APIs, for example, are an initial form of this type of interface. The second one is dashboards. And again, just to bring it back, your APIs are all AI-enabled APIs, right? that enable anyone in the world to utilize your product or service, right? If you want to become a platform like YouTube, where people can load their videos, get all information, generate revenue, then those interfaces and APIs, AI enabled is how you do that.

35:29Apple has a great interface interfacing with its App Store developers. So when somebody submits an idea for an app, they have an AI that actually looks through it and does an initial assessment of it to see is this something we want to authorize or not. So it's a gate to go through sort of at first to help them weed through all the ideas. When you were just talking about that, does this technology help smaller or medium-sized companies compete better? Because it used to be just large companies had this ability, right? Yeah, this is fundamental. In the future, we think the future will be, you know, Peter, do you want to talk about the asteroid analogy?

36:07because I think you tell it best. So, you know, something has happened over the last 30 years that's changed the business world, right? The speed, my mom used to say the world is speeding up. I said, mom, it's not speeding up, but technology is speeding up. And so the analogy that I love is that 65 million years ago, a 20 kilometer asteroid struck the earth and it changed the environment so rapidly that the slow lumbering dinosaurs that were not agile died, went extinct. It was the furry little mammals, our ancestors, that were agile and able to adapt rapidly that dominate the planet. Well, the asteroid that struck the Earth over the last couple of decades is exponential technologies.

36:51And they're changing the business world so rapidly that unless you have the agility to utilize these technologies, you will go extinct as a company. And it used to be that one technology was enough for you to differentiate yourself. But now it's convergence. It's two, three, or four of these coming together, right? It's AI plus sensors, plus networks, plus blockchain that's transforming things. So big companies have an existential threat because if they don't adapt very fast and learn how to adapt very fast, they'll essentially go extinct. The lifespan of a Fortune 500 company or an S &P 500 company used to be something like 70 years and now it's down to about 12 to 14 years.

37:32Seriously? Just look in the last decade, all the companies that went bankrupt, right? Toys R Us and old retailers and Blockbuster, et cetera, et cetera, all gone. And so there's the metabolism change. You know, there's a concept called Coase's Law. Ronald Coase wrote this nine-page paper in the 1930s for which he won the Nobel Prize positing that the reason you have big companies is you have transaction costs are lower inside than outside, and you can achieve economies of scale. And that was great. And we, in the book, actually declare Costa's law dead because you can now achieve economies of scale outside of big company just as easily.

38:09And your decision-making speed is much faster in a smaller organization. And therefore, big companies actually serve and have an existential threat today. So is it just going to be churn now? That's going to be the lifespan and they die and form into something else? Or will there be companies that iterate and adopt fast enough to survive? They have one path, and we talk about this in the book, which is to turn into platforms and then ecosystems. So Google and Apple and Facebook have turned into platforms. Uber is trying to turn itself into a platform for delivering health care and delivering food, etc., etc.

38:45If you can get to that, then you become a coral reef and everybody builds businesses off yours like YouTube. If you stay trying to be an operating company, you won't succeed. Amazing. That's a massive change for people to get their head around. Huge. So Peter, we're talking about all of the power in this and what you can unlock when you embrace this. What are the challenges around AI? There's a lot of challenges around AI. And there are challenges that fall into two separate things. One is challenges of implementing it. And then the second is challenges in society. If we focus on the challenges on implementing it, if you're not an AI first company, it's going to be strange and difficult.

39:38Because ultimately, you're used to using your opinion. You're used to using your training. You're used to using everything other than going to ask something else. And so it really changes entire behavior of the organization. and um and so it either if you're starting from the beginning you can build this in it's like being an experimentalist company where you don't care what someone's opinion is you run the experiments you always run the experiments you listen to the data data-driven decision making um ai is going to be very similar where you're going to use you know if you're a physician i I have a number of companies in the healthcare space.

40:21You know, the physician is normally looking at all the data, making a decision, and it's going to have to flip where, no, I'm going to see what AI delivers as the differential and the recommendations. And then if I have questions about if I disagree, I'll dig a little bit further and look in further. But I'm going to get to a point where I trust the AI more than I trust my own opinion, because we are flawed in our abilities. I'll give another number, Salim mentioned. There's 7 ,000 medical journal articles per day. If you're going to a doctor, how many did your doctor read this morning? I can guarantee you the AI has the ability to consume them all.

41:08By the way, when you go to the doctor, you get the wrong diagnosis about 30 % of the time today. Right. So there's a lot of upside there to using AI. Thank you, Salim. Thank you. As we all trot off to our yearly updates. And but I think we sense that. Right. That's why we go get second opinions. And look, know what we do already today. You know, something my toes hurting. The first thing I do is look it up on Google and research all the different conditions that people may have had. I take those to my doctor who goes, what the hell is this? And doesn't even know how to look at it. And we'll start from first principles.

41:39They stop looking at what they tell you, stop looking at the Internet, because we always usually go for the ones that are, you know, we're dying usually. So when an AI empowers that, then we'll get to the right answer so much faster. Here's an example. You know, OpenAI's ChatGPT came online in November of 22. In January of 23, two months later, it had passed the U.S. medical licensing exam, right, which requires four years of medical school and two years of residence. and that's pretty spectacular. So the difficulty in implementing it is momentum. It's culture. Yeah, it's one of the most important.

42:20It's not money. So cultural meaning there's resistance to it. There's resistance. There's human. No, no, I'm the expert. I don't want to ask the stupid AI what I should be doing here. What does it know? I've been working in this field for 40 years. I'm the chief creative officer here. Well, guess what? you are going to lose that battle. And so culture is very, very much important. And then the second thing is that the field is changing so rapidly. Staying on top of it is going to be very difficult. And that's where, again, a chief AI officer informing every level of your organization is so important.

42:57What about the, when you were talking about the societal part, I guess this is where the ethics of it come in? Because already powerful technology, if it's your co-pilot, very much depends on who the pilot is. And if somebody wants to use it for nefarious means, or for deception, or for undermining, we know there's concern about elections. It's moving so fast. How are you thinking about the ethical part of it? So those are the societal, but even within a corporation, how does that fit in? And what are your thoughts around that? You know, this is like fire, right? I can use fire to heat my house and I can use it to burn down your house.

43:35And it comes down to how do we extract the promise of the technology without the peril? Now, when you look back over the last, say, 20 years or so, we were super freaked out by the internet and we may be bombarded and phished out of existence. Then we were really worried about email and we're being spammed out of existence. And we found ways of dealing with all of those. Like we don't hear about spam as a problem in email today because we've got actually AI systems that actually filter out most of the spam before it gets to us. So we think it's an arms race where people will do bad things and then we'll use AI of people doing good things to fight the people that do bad things.

44:10And it just keeps going on and on and on. It just becomes more and more automated. Yeah, Peter, I think it's been coming up. Is it an arms race or a space race? I have a feeling you're going to lean into the space race part of it. Well, no, no, it's the AI wars. And what's happening is, you know, so you have to understand, we don't actually know the answers to these questions, right? We can give opinions. I was listening to Jeffrey Hinton, who just left Google. Yes, he's been warning. Yeah, he's been in the news, right? Yeah, he recalled the fact that, you know, Google started developing these transformers and these large language models in 2017, and was basically not releasing them until they had more experience.

44:53And it was, it was OpenAI's release of ChatGPT onto the world stage that forced Google's hand, Alphabet's hand to release it, to remain relevant and competitive. it. You know, they release BARD. So that's fascinating. And, you know, so there's not going to be a slowing down of this stuff. And now the question becomes, how do you regulate it? Can you regulate it? And I don't know that you can regulate it. You know, if you make something illegal in the US, does it just go to South Korea or China or India? So, you know, when I was in medical school years ago, the restriction enzymes, gene editing first came on scene.

45:38And it was front pages of newspapers. The Time magazine was like, you know, designer babies and Hitler youth were good. It was going to it was like scare mongering tactics again. Right. That's what the media does. And there was a lot of discussion about should we regulate these genetic engineering? And what happened instead was that the genetic engineering industry got together at a place called Asilomar and held these very famous Asilomar conferences in which they created their own guidelines, ethical, moral operating guidelines, which have stood the test of time. We have not had a genetic engineering disaster in the past, you know, 40 years.

46:23So the call for these companies to get together to do this is going on right now. So we'll see. But, you know, listen, I'm a father of two 11-year-olds. Salim has an 11-year-old. Our three boys know each other. And thinking about what's their world going to look like is fascinating. Yeah. I'm glad you brought up a positive example because there are lots of the idea of industry self-policing is often met with skepticism and there are bad examples of that. So it's so it's it's nice for you to bring that up as something that is possible, because I think we forget about that. And it's a fantastic point on on the genetics.

47:09And it's a great example because biotech is so fundamentally powerful. the example maps across very clearly. Yeah, absolutely. So how can a lot of our audience, I think, would count themselves as having an exponential mindset. They're a learning tribe. How do you keep up? How do they need to think about this, whether they are leading companies, whether they are executives in the executive rank, or whether they're an employee? It's so much coming at us. How do we navigate it? How do we educate ourselves? It's tough. We wrote this book for that purpose. And the book is written, Exponential Organizations 2.0, the new playbook for 10X.

47:54Growth and impact. Growth and impact is the name. We wrote it as a book that is very consumable, like for each of these attributes. This is what the attribute is. Here's a case study of how it's being used. Here's the tools you can use. Here's the problems, the challenges, the opportunities. And so it's every one of these is meant to do that. We've also, Maggie, if you go to diamandis.com slash exo, there is a three hour workshop that we invite you to come. It's free. Come bring your employees, bring everybody who you want to think this way inside your organization. And during that three-hour masterclass, we'll give you free access to the book, to an AI that we've created where you can query the book.

48:47This is a, to quote Salim, this is a living book, and where you can query it about how to use it. So again, Diamandis, D-I-A-M-A-N-D-I-S dot com slash E-X-O will give you access to the masterclass and the free book and the AI. Salim, you want to add anything to that? Well, I think it's critically important because the way we built organizations in the 20th century were top-down, hierarchical, command-and-control, big structures designed for efficiency and predictability. And in the 21st century, you need to architect it for flexibility, agility, adaptability, and speed. And so the entire heuristics of how you build and transform your marketplace, et cetera, have changed.

49:31So now you need to be this new type of an animal, the furry animals after the asteroid is hit. And what we've been doing is laying out this playbook because we now have 10 years of data and case studies and examples of how people have applied these principles in different ways. We have some unbelievable data around the Fortune 100, for example, that's worth talking about. When we wrote the book, we actually analyzed the Fortune 100 and ranked them on this model. To what extent is Walmart purpose-driven? To what extent is GE using lean startup thinking? To what extent has IBM done decentralization of its decision-making?

50:07And we did a segment on CNBC Squawk Box talking about this, presenting this index. We just did a seven-year trailing analysis and said, okay, how did those companies do over seven years? And we looked at the top 10 that were using the attributes the most over that seven-year period and the bottom 10 that were using the attributes the least. So the most purpose-driven, scalable, flexible, adaptable org structures versus the least. And we found over seven years that the most EXO-friendly delivered three times better revenue growth than the least bottom 10. Profitability, 6.4 times higher. Return on equity, 11 times higher.

50:46But the killer was shareholder returns, compound annual growth rate. The top 10 outperformed the bottom 10 by 40 times over a seven-year period. And it was so ridiculous. We had to go and check the data like four times over to make sure we weren't missing something. But it's right there. And so it's pretty clear that you need to be organized as the world becomes more volatile. Your organization structure has to match to be able to deliver those some capabilities. So we're pretty clear in the future that every company, every nonprofit, every impact project, even any government department will be organized in this way going forward.

51:18And so the workshop is designed to say, Well, there's a lot of work to be done there, isn't there? I'm still fighting with the IRS over something related to my parents and I can't get anybody to resolve it. And it's ridiculous. So, I mean, clearly there's a lot of work to be done there. You know, I'll take the simplest example, right? With the blockchain, we can do authentication at very low cost. And almost all government functionality, something like 80 % is authenticated. Yes, you have the phishing license. Yes, you've got the building permit. Yes, you have a driver's license. So when we can kind of automate a lot of that, it'll actually make government way, way more efficient, which, you know, and smaller, which I think everybody could appreciate.

51:56Yeah, and maybe save some money, which is another thing we need to worry about. So we talked about organizations. What about the younger generation? You have 11-year-olds. I have kids who are a little bit older than that who are starting to think about college. And it strikes me as I'm listening to you that so much of the education system now is kind of still built on the old-fashioned model. You know, they're just learning to test and get past the standardized test that's already going to be outdated by the time they have to. We get questions a lot from people saying, what should my kid do in college?

52:30What should I tell my grandchildren? How can I prepare my kids for this? How do we need to think about that? I think about this a lot. So first of all, and because I speak to a large number of audiences, as does Salim, and when I mention I'm a dad, people ask. So listen, if your kid is in college and the question is, what should they study? You know, first of all, you know, I would be it would be incorrect me to say, you know, studying data science and AI will give you an incredible job studying biotech. You know, what's going on in the whole biotechnology world will give you a great job. Those are the two biggest business verticals that are happening where we'll see trillions of dollars in creation there.

53:13But that's secondary. And for if you've got younger kids, there are three things for me and has nothing to do with technology. Number one is help your kids find their passion and their purpose, whatever it would be. Not your passion, not your spouse's passion, not your teacher's passion, their passion. For me, when I was growing up, you know, it was my passion for space that drove me to do everything I've ever done in life as a result directly of that self-driven, wanting to learn passion for nothing. You know, it's Star Trek. It's, you know, Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock that got me going and Neil and Buzz landing on the moon.

53:51So that's the first thing. Get your passion. The second thing is learn to ask great questions. I give this advice to CEOs and kids. You know, the quality of your question is going to be the quality of your life and your work. And the third thing is grit, learning not to give up. I think it's those three things and they're independent of technology. Yeah, to build on that, for about 200, 300 years, when we think about education, it's always about job schooling. You went and got a degree in the thing that would be most likely to get you a job, and it's supply-side driven. You got the right skills, you became an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer, and you went to the job marketplace and you tried to sell those skills to get a good job.

54:33What we're seeing now is it's moving to the demand side, as Peter talks about, which is what is your passion? What problem do you want to solve? What makes you up in the morning that you have this burning desire to go do? And then now find the skills and technologies that will fulfill that. We note that, you know, look at the Steve Jobs and Zuckerbergs and Bill Gates and the world dropouts. Right. And they went and found their passion and then found the technologies that solve that passion. And this is where we think the major shift will be. There's some amazing data around this. Now the biggest companies in the world aren't hiring based on your college degree.

55:09In GitHub, which is a platform of software developers globally, in Silicon Valley today, your salary as a software developer now has nothing to do with your college degree or your grades or the reputation you have. It's 100 % what is your score on GitHub, which is an open peer-to-peer Yelp-style rating where people rated my code. And now everybody knows how good of a quality developer I have. So therefore, the value of a computer science degree just went to zero. And so we'll see much, much more of that as we go through, apply this to doctors or lawyers, et cetera, et cetera. And we think that will become pervasive.

55:47The simple answer is find your passion and follow it. Can all of us learn to engage with AI, have it as a co-pilot, use it in our companies, use it in our careers, or do you have to have a sort of technology mindset? Everybody can. 100%. You just need to play. What you need is the mindset you had when you were a kid. That's what you need. Go back and rekindle that six, eight, 10-year-old. So my kids, they sit in front of ChatGPT or Bard, and they're both great, right? ChatGPT is 20 bucks a month. Bard's free at this point. It's amazing. It's like, just ask anything. Go and learn a subject by asking, asking, asking.

56:34You know when that kid asks, well, dad, why is that? And why is that? And why is that? And gets annoying. Well, Bard or ChatGPT will infinitely go down that rabbit hole with you. I did this with my 11-year-old. He was listening to some hip-hop music. And I was thinking about how could I do this. So I went to ChatGPT with him and I said, rewrite Bible Genesis chapter as a rap song. And it did it. And you could see his eyes like freaking out going, oh my God, this is possible. This is the kind of thing that we'll do. And this is an important point to make around Peter's six Ds, which is, you know, you digitize, you get disrupted and deceptive and then you get disrupted.

57:09When a technology becomes disruptive, it usually is when it becomes usable. Steve Jobs made the mobile phone usable, right? Bitcoin base made Bitcoin usable and at least you could purchase it easily. I call it interface moments. Interface moments. Exactly. And AI now has its interface moment. We now have a user friendly way to interface with an AI. Up to then, only geeks could use these models. They had a very complex software and hardware running them. You had to know which software libraries to bring to bear, etc. But now with the interface, the interface moment has now happened with AI. Now anybody can interface with it.

57:45And it sounds like there's a huge amount of entrepreneurial activity going on in that interface. I don't want to say everyone's creating the killer apps for this stuff, but it sounds like there's an enormous potential for people to figure out how to get us all using it. There are at least, I would guess, 50 ,000 startups being created right now by two kids in a garage learning how to apply this to every domain possible. And many of them will fail, but there will be enough that succeed that will completely change those fields. Let me give you one example just to bring this home. There's a Chinese car company called Guazi.

58:25They sell used cars. Now, when you think about used cars, how would you make that 10x better? It's not that obvious. Maybe I have a better warranty, better delivery service. I do it on an app, something. What they do is they go to somebody who wants to sell a car, and they capture 250 data points, video, audio, images. They take an audio of the engine and run it through a machine learning algorithm. They can detect the quality of the engine just by the perturbation in the sounds. Their engine comes up with a price. This is what we think the car is worth. They show it to the seller, and they say, we'll give you 10 % less than this price in cash right now.

58:59Seller goes, hell, here, yeah. Then they go to somebody who wants to buy the car, and they said, here's the price of this car. We'll sell it to you for 10 % more. Fully transparent, there's the model. In seven years, they captured 80 % of the used car market in China. They sell 2 million cars a month, right? So you look at that, and you go, that's what's possible if you apply all these attributes collectively. We're going to see this. We're going to see radical disruption of every industry. And you think about used cars, it's not an obvious thing, right? If you can do it in used cars, why can't you do it in every other domain out there?

59:36Amazing. So what are both of you currently playing around with that's kind of blowing your mind in AI as you continue to sort of think about and help companies tap into their exponential selves? I'm actually doing a four-hour workshop tomorrow for my Abundance 360 members. And we're going to walk through a lot of the, you know, the OpenAI chat GPT and their plugins. We're going to look at, you know, some of the imaging work. We're going to look at some of the summarization work, the ability that you can feed into these AI engines a PDF and say, summarize it for me, or a YouTube video and say, summarize this video for me.

1:00:26So, the challenge is that as humans, our speed at which we consume information has not accelerated, but oh my god, the amount of acceleration in the world, info in the world, has exploded. So how do you use AI to find the information that's most relevant to you, your career or your desires, and then use AI to be able to filter it and present you the most important part of that information. So this is part of how do you make time more abundant, right? How do you use your time, right? We're all born with the same restriction of 24 hours in a a day, seven days in a week. And it's how you use time.

1:01:08A billionaire uses, saves time by flying in their private jet and skipping lines of magnetometers and socks. You can save time by using Google or BARD or ChatGPT and so forth. At the very metaphysical level, the world is a signal to noise problem, right? You hear a noise in the bushes, is it your friend or a dangerous animal? Better to run back in the old days. Today, you hear a noise in the bushes, you put a camera in there and you run and then watch the camera. With all the information out there, we now have really good AI gives us a really good signal to noise processor, right? Filter out all the stuff that I'm eating and give me the three things I should be eating right now.

1:01:49Or same thing with exercise. You've seen, here's my exercise patterns. Tell me the most optimal exercise for me. I've got 30 minutes. Go. And so I think we'll see a radical change in lifestyle, businesses, et cetera, all applying AI to do things and optimize things, give us more time, give us more space, give us more freedom. We're super excited about the future. You know, honestly, again, I want to say to everybody listening here, if you haven't had a chance to dive in, dive in and play. Just give yourself an hour. Go watch a few YouTube videos or just open up Bard or ChatGPT and just start asking question after question after question and go down the rabbit hole.

1:02:31And I think you'll be amazed at what you find. And we'll be coaching all of the attendees at this workshop on June the 6th on this exact topic, right? How do you take AI and apply to all your businesses and all your business functions to completely transform it to 10x your organization? Yeah, again, just to be clear, whenever you're listening to this, come to dmandis.com slash exo. You'll have access to a free masterclass, access to a free copy of the book, and an AI that allows you to query the book. Again, the idea of writing a book on AI or exponential technologies right now is insane because things are changing so fast.

1:03:11You can update the book constantly. So this will be a living book. And we think the best way to start on this journey is with this three-hour masterclass that allow us to teach it to you in a methodical fashion. Come in and say, I'm a shipping company. How would I use AI? And it'll tell you. Clearly, we have just scratched the surface. but it was an amazing conversation. It gave us so much to think about. And I really appreciate in all of the conversation around this, I really appreciate that both of you have this sort of mindset of abundance and optimism because I think that's what we need right now.

1:03:43So thank you both, Peter, Salim. Fantastic. Great to have been with you.

1:03:54What's up, revolutionaries? Thanks for tuning in to the Real Vision Daily Briefing. For more content like this, head over to realvision.com and get unfiltered access to the very best, brightest, and biggest names in finance.

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From the publisher

Welcome to the first episode of the Festival of Learning: AI Edition, with Peter Diamandis, founder and executive chairman of XPRIZE Foundation, and Salim Ismail, Exponential Organizations author. From the five stages of grief Fortune 500 companies are going through to why we have to unlearn “50 years of Harvard MBA thinking,” Peter and Salim present an exciting yet terrifying vision of what’s in store for corporate America.
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