Which Crypto Majors Will Benefit From AI? | Rekt Vision

27:43And then they went open source for Lama. And then now they're like, no, actually, we want to own this. And we want to close. We want to own the model. Are they going to move away from this open source kind of thing that they were trying to do before? to now like we want to own the in-house and we want to own the super intelligence. I think it is slightly unsettling. And obviously, yeah, you mentioned Tesla earnings. It does feel like they didn't have great earnings of what I could see, but it does feel as though the story for the AI bit of it is still very, very strong or gotten increasingly strong.

28:16Well, actually, let me say something on the open source point you made, Mando, because I think it's a really important one that you just made, which is Meta has been the only Mac 7 company that has gone down the open source route. And by that, any AI model that they've created, they have open sourced. And the reasoning that Zuck gave is that, you know, it's for the people. Intelligence should be for everyone. But mainly, he wanted to catch up to open AI. Now, he's taken a different strategy, which is I'm going to spend trillions of dollars to buy the best minds in AI. And then I'm going to build my own model and privatize it.

28:52So I agree with you. He's not going to open source it. But there's one glaring opposition to all AI intelligence companies in the US that has been kind of like glaring down on everyone. And it's China, Mando. So China over the last, I think, well, technically it's eight days now, have released two AI models that have outcompeted Clawed, which is Anthropics' flagship model, and OpenAI's model in coding, in creative writing, and in app development. Guess what? Both of them are open source. Both of them are a trillion parameters, which, by the way, for anyone listening to this, is huge. So you have to ask yourself, why are they going down that route?

30:03worrying. I want to focus a little bit on the agents because it feels as though OpenAI released a new agent this week, right? And we spoke about agents, you know, agents in crypto. There are a lot of firms, again, at the start of this year, still who are still, let's say, building more crypto native agents. What do you think here? Do you think the developments on crypto facing AI agents are going to come from within crypto? Or do you think it's going to come from people like open AI now? Do you think it's just, it is an unassailable lead and it's kind of, we're just tweaking their models? Good question.

30:42I think that, okay, so let me answer the question, which is like, how good are these AI agents right now? We've seen kind of like the crypto people build it out and we've seen the open AIs of the world build it out. There's nothing really meaningful that are coming out of either camp, if I'm just being honest with you, right? So this week, OpenAI released their new agent, and it's a combination of two of their popular features, which is called agent operator and research, deep research. And the combination of that is this new agent. And I've been using it for the last week. It's good at organizing my calendar.

31:18It is great at, you know, like building a bunch of apps if you wanted to, or like automating a bunch of things, but it doesn't really do anything meaningful at this point. And so by meaningful, I mean like for a wider variety of people that would just want to kind of like get it to do something for them or like post on their social media account. So it's still very niche, if I'm being honest with you. On the Web3 side of things, I think what crypto has realized is they need to build use cases for crypto people right now. They can't like try and take on Stripe payments, for example, but they can take on DeFi yield or stablecoin transfers for whatever that might be.

31:55And I think that's really like net-net quite good. Does that answer your question, Mando? Yeah, perfect. I think I agree that it has to be knee-specific. And I also think that people aren't ready to give up complete control to these sort of things yet, particularly both on the personal level and the applications themselves. So it's become, there are a few roadblocks, I think, in the face of that. One thing I have seen, though, this week, just touching upon those use cases, we saw Grok do a partnership, I think, yesterday with Kalshi, which was a little bit confusing because X had also done a partnership with Polymarket.

32:33But it does feel like AI agents meet prediction markets. It's great. Could be where this is going. What do you make of all this? I'm so happy you raised this. Okay, so just for some context for the listeners, prediction market is basically like a betting market, right? But we don't officially want to say that. And the reason why it got so much popularity, especially around the US presidential election time, was it basically identified that Trump was going to win before any other polling station or like survey company. And so it became branded as the number one truth-seeking instrument. So if you want to figure out what the reality is behind an event, look at the prediction market for it.

33:22If you want to figure out whether some place has been bombed or whether someone's won A, B, or C, look at the prediction market. And so people started thinking, okay, these prediction markets are cool, but I've never seen one. I've never interacted with one. I spent all my time on social media. So what X decided to do was partner with the top two prediction markets creators. And two weeks ago, they partnered with Polymarket, which is a Web3 crypto-based prediction markets platform. And this week, as you've got it up on the screen here, they partnered with Calci. So two of the biggest prediction markets are now with X.

33:59I put out this tweet, I think, yesterday or two days ago, but I'll just recount it right now, which is basically I said, step one. add prediction markets to every single popular X post that is on my newsfeed. So I scroll, and I see a crazy claim. And then I just see, you know, community notes, you know how that works? Like, you know, you typically see, you know, whether something's real or not, you'll now see a prediction market. And I'll be like, Oh, hold on. You can do that now? Not on prediction markets. No, no, no, no, no, on community. I'm saying this is what I think is going to happen. Oh, yeah.

34:36I think that's it. It's going to get integrated into the feed. That's number one, right? So you're scrolling, you're on your phone, you're just kind of like scrolling. You're like, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool. Number two, you're going to be able to tap a button to bet on it yourself. Let's say you were at the event specifically and you saw who won the gold medal or let's say you're on the ground and some kind of war zone and you saw what happened or you heard what happened. You can bet. You can like place your bets and it's going to be super easy. You want to know how that's going to be enabled?

35:01Most likely it's going to happen via some form of stablecoin route or some kind of like Stripe integration, but most likely stablecoin route. And I can say that because I've like spoken to the team a bunch and I know the direction that they're headed towards or that they're strongly considering. So I'm really excited about that, right? Then step three is obviously take a percentage of every transaction whilst being found like this kind of like truth-seeking machine. So I'm really excited by this because it's one of crypto's newer consumer applications that are really doing well. and this could be like a huge win yeah let's bet on this is about to it's about to go wild like i think yes i think there's a like there's a mixed feeling about like obviously betting is for every single sports event in the u.s you know it's now like you know various from betting companies you are now going to see this with every major piece of news that you see i am almost certain that either on x or via like native media like you'll be reading a new york times article and at the end or say like would you like to bet on this i mean i know because i'm close to the myriad team who kind of partnered with the crypt and they've done various different integrations that that's how they're viewing it too like prediction markets meets news or prediction markets meets social media isn't is a potentially a massive massive market um and i do think i do think these sort of um when it integrates with ai integrates with ai agents like you just said that would be one of the the simplest things for them to go do, right?

36:26Like AI agent, hey, just go predict stuff for me and go bet on them and see how things go, right? So let's talk about like, let's focus on the main reasons why you would use an AI agent in this, right? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people that listen to this being like, ah, you're just slapping AI agent on anything, right? On everything. Like, why would you need it? There's some important reasons. Number one, people are lazy. They don't have eyes 24-7. But very soon, everyone's going to have a virtual version of themselves. And you can describe it as the AI model version of them or a virtual companion, whatever you want to term it.

37:03You're going to have someone that basically looks at post 24-7 and makes decisions based off of that. It's going to fine-tune your algorithm and newsfeed. It's going to make payments for you, whatever that might be. why wouldn't it make bets right right it would make that that good even if it's just arbitrage as well right like because one thing my second thing wild amounts of differences in in very similar or literally the same bet sometimes they're worded differently on different sites but it does feel as though there's a lot of arbitrage to be done here between the different markets yeah markets are also like small as well right some of these markets are kind of like maybe it's a local event in your jurisdiction that you feel strongly about, but not many people in the global order care, right?

37:50You're going to need someone to add that for you. It's not going to be you. It's not going to be you spending an hour of your time. It's going to be an agent that doesn't care about how much it gets paid, just gets on with it. And it's not just events, right? A lot of this is now sports. You go on to CalSheet, and it's basically just sports. Polymarket has pushed sports a lot all the other smaller uh firms are pushing sports so again you'll be able to arbitrage it versus large um sports books as well which i think i think it will be one of the most obvious ways that the ai agents are able to come in and kind of do stuff and i think it's interesting to see how it's already kind of um fully forming in terms of um other stuff this week i don't know if that much of it was was ai i think those are maybe the main things but i do think it's important that we should speak about CryptoPunks a little bit because you are a CryptoPunk, as we just said.

38:42And we spoke about ETH Betas at the start of the week. I think we've had big moves again in the brand coin. So obviously, OSF left, Rekt has hit multiple all-time highs after all-time highs. That's a bit of a trend. Pengu and Rekt, I think, are definitely the strongest. But MFTs are emerging again as a bit of an ETH beta trade, which people like, and in particular CryptoPunks. CryptoPunks up to a 50 ETH floor. You saw a$3 million sweep of HootiePunks today, plus I think a$5 million ETH Punk traded. And you have people like Arthur Hayes, bull posting Punks saying they're going to outperform ETH.

39:21I think I actually just saw a post from Ansem saying he's going to move into being an ETH bull for the rest of the cycle. I don't know if it was Pung and Pung. It might be hilarious. What do you make of these here? Do you think, actually, oh, wow, you've got art blocks in the back there. I didn't realize that too. Do you think this is just a Punks only trade? Or do you think it's going to be broader? I think it'll be broader. I think Punks is typically the leading indicator, right? It's like the Bitcoin of NFTs, if you want to kind of like simplify it. I'm a massive proponent and fan of NFTs. I still feel the same way that I did back when it got crazy in 2020.

39:59it is the ultimate way to own a digital collectible. In fact, it's probably the only way right now, right? Outside of just like platform owned digital assets. And if you just look, if you zoom out, right? Just step away from NFTs for a second. If you speak to anyone's kid that is 15 years old and younger, they've all heard of Roblox. They've all heard of Fortnite and they all have accounts on there. And I bet you they've all done a bunch of transactions with mommy and daddy's Apple pay card or whatever that might be. So the growing generations care about this stuff, but obviously they're not the ones that are spending millions of dollars on these things.

40:40I think why punks is such a big focus right now is for a few reasons. Number one, you mentioned that it's a levered bet on ETH. Yes, I would agree on that. And it is usually where money flows first after ETH has pumped pretty significantly. right? People get wealthy from their ETH trade and they're like, okay, I want to flex a little bit or I want to own some kind of digital asset or beta leverage. Okay, I'm going to put my money into punks. That's number one. But number two is I think these things are largely being, what's the word, ossified as the original art collectibles. And punks defines that massively, right?

41:22The floor sweeps are something that I haven't seen in a while, Mando. And to spend$10 million on hoodie punks over the last, I think, three days is insane, right? You just said the floor for hoodie punks right now is$600 ,000 or something like that, which is just insane, right? And so people are talking more about the trades and all that kind of thing. But the third thing is we kind of opened the show about this, digital asset treasury companies, right? So we spoke about ETFs, but we spoke about these digital asset treasury companies, which are buying Bitcoin treasuries for their reserves, but now ETH treasuries for their reserves.

42:00The new trend is some of them have started to buy NFTs, Mando. Now, I don't know whether this is going to become a formative trend, but it's just a sign of the times of where things are going. People want to own crypto assets as some kind of treasury backing for their stock or their private equity valuation. do you think the equity market is ready for the nf nft story to come back i don't know if that has the same impact um but i agree with you like it does look like the obvious the obvious trade it's an interesting time though for nfts because even this week we've seen other collections seemingly like retrench or or not in the same sort of place it like doodles now it's big layoffs you've had i think pixel vault closed their doors like some of these if you were around in 2021 some of the nft collections which were still kicking are kind of retreating or or even closing down at the moment and yet punks just keep going so do you think that's the at the same time you know wrecked has done well um pudgy penguins has done well as kind of reinventing themselves around that but it does feel as though this this digital collectible um art style movement can be strong although we haven't seen it extend that much like i haven't seen i think the dens have been on the move but like not yet do you think do you master trade do you think to get into some of these now or do you think that's too risky i mean so speaking personally it's what i've been doing i can't i can't speak for everyone else but that's basically what i'm foreseeing uh it'll it'll follow down like some kind of waterfall effect where okay if they're buying punks next will be some of the um og uh art blocks releases like fidenzas um archetypes stuff like that um which i think will be kind of like used as some kind of again again focusing on the collectibles side of things i don't think board apes are going to get bought up in in mass quantities anytime soon i think uh tastes have kind of like evolved over time but i think we're going to see way more of these things happen.

44:09The other thing I was going to say is, I think this whole notion of owning collectibles is just becoming an ingrained behavior. As more and more people see stable coins in the news headlines, crypto ETFs, all those kind of things, they've always thought of crypto, and maybe I'm projecting this, but in my opinion, they've always thought of crypto as just this kind of crazy magical internet money and no one really takes it seriously now they're starting to take it seriously now they're starting to believe in the meme that we originally spoke about over the last decade which is like no this magical internet money can be a store of value if enough people kind of like understand how the order of effects work and i think this is like piling into collectibles as well as long as eth continues to outperform we're going to see more of these punk purchases happen in my opinion yeah i do think so i mean they topped out all time i think it's like 400 to 500k right and they're now just shy of 200k a punk at the moment i think they can have some two and a half they can have some legs they can have some legs i i it'll be interesting to see that if eth breaks through all-time high if they can kind of keep pace or if they fall off.

45:27They can actually outperform, they can underperform in that world. I will bet whatever you want on stream right now, I'll bet you dinner or whatever you want, that it will. It will. Always does. It does. I think it outperforms. I think the issue is when the market turns, the liquidity can turn very quickly. They feel amazing on the way up, these sort of trades and then uh suddenly if something happens it's like oh no i can't exit it for for anything well not for anything i think punks always want to bid for but it does feel as though if particularly go down the spectrum like if you're buying ogr art blocks for example and you don't time this correctly you can be stuck in them for a long long time like a fedenders trade like we're trading like once a month for periods of the last pair market so um interesting to see is there anything else that you're looking at at the moment like maybe broadly across uh apart from um just just crypto is there anything else that's like you're focused on at the moment um from a from a top-down perspective um well i actually wanted to add one more point before i answer that question mando uh because i i think we we need to shine some light on pengu as well or like the the pudgy penguin let's talk about it i i mean dude just a shout out to luca I don't know Luca personally, never met the guy, but like that guy is hustling hard, right?

46:55He was hustling hard throughout the bear market. Then everyone started identifying Pudgy Penguins as a blue chip NFT. Everyone bought it and then it crashed with all the other NFTs and he's still shipping. And now it's like had a whole entire resurgence. I've been playing around with the new Pudgy Penguin game. I've seen a few screen recordings and stuff like that. I don't know if you've been exposed to it yet, Mando. So I hate to say it, I don't want to jinx it, but it's really good. And the point that I'm trying to make around here is one thing kids these days or like humans in general are very used to is some form of in-app currency, right?

47:33Whether it was Clash of Clans or RuneScape, I'm dating myself a little bit here, but like whatever game you're playing, there's some kind of currency. but it's very rare that a cryptocurrency itself has really kind of like scaled up. And largely it's been restricted by like the Apple app store makers, right? Which have said like, you can't trade crypto, you can't do anything, like you've been restricted. And then stable coin transfers, and then the SEC, Gary Gensler, they were like negative, negative, negative on crypto. Funnily enough, all of those things have flipped and no one's talking about it.

48:08Now you can transact certain cryptos within your app. now there's loopholes to have pengu being integrated into like a number one consumer game so i think if we start to see more of these types of builders happen um their token will do very well and let's talk about pengu from just a market perspective right how much is the market cap right now it's like what three billion 2.5 billion just over just over three i think at the moment or just over it's very difficult to work out because i know the fdv is like high but i know they burned some of the FDVs on. I don't know if the numbers are correct, but it's around that sort of level.

48:46It's obviously a crazy move. Right, right. We're not talking about$100 million market cap coin, right? Yeah. It's held so well throughout this entire dump. I think the thing that's impressive about this is what you said. If you look at how he set it up is Igloo as the top co, and then um they've got abstract and then they've got um pudgy penguins and and it's it's it's kind of interesting to see the various different things they've got involved in originally it was the it was the toys i think they're still doing the toys but i don't know if they're doing the walmart anymore they're doing them in like different places but they've got a big media business they're doing like these small labubu like um yeah key rings now at the moment and then they've got the games, like you said, they're going to do, which is going to hopefully have some use case for the coin.

49:44But I think he's really trying to build a brand which is very associated with crypto. He keeps on saying, we're trying to flip Doge, which I think when a lot of people think of crypto, they think of Doge. Maybe even as much as Bitcoin for a certain age bracket of consumers, because it was associated with You're right. You know, that that period where Elon was like bullposting it. And I think the idea is that now Pengu is going to try and be there for crypto. It's a long way to go. Obviously, Doge is 30 billion or whatever it is. So it's it's it's a long, long way. But he he is building a very, very strong multifaceted brand.

50:24And I think the difference between just to compare it to kind of what we've done kind of with Rex is that we started with a product. like that immediately we made the coin work. He's kind of built out the brand itself first, and then now they're going to try and switch off, switch on maybe some of these iterations, like you say. And it'll be interesting to see how that is done. But in terms of the strongest narratives at the moment, brand coins, which, and ETH, and now ETH NFTs, kind of like all like the OG ones, like the really, really, those are the three strongest ones I see at the moment. I don't see much else in crypto which is outperforming.

51:05Let me ask you this. Do you think that trend continues? Or is there something that no one's talking about right now that will probably get most of the next set of inflows? Maybe it's Solana. What do you think? Yeah, I think everyone's expecting it to fall off here. that's that's my general sense is that everyone's expecting it to kind of return to doing its eth sort of stuff and i think that this is a medium-term trend like i think the etf inflows have basically started two months ago and i think they the treasury company started a month ago just to call top on that feels very early like if it's like calling calling the top on bitcoin treasury companies a couple months into microtreality starting in 2020 like these things could go on for the next year and have ongoing impacts the next year so i think it's a these are strong medium term trends and i wouldn't fade them that early but i but i have been interested in in um in some of the other l1s just as as a kind of like an ai trade because i start to see some of those some of those pick up and i've been looking at a bit more of some of the defi defi is a very interesting landscape for me because i get very bullish on it and then i get like i kind of i kind of see like what goldman sachs just did or i see the clarity act like oh actually this doesn't this feels mixed so there are certain friends like i like we've you said you'd like stable coins and i think it's very difficult to work out at times like where what is the best place to play that you just play it by the l1 like i said i like syrup which is the stablecoin slash RWA play, but you also have Ina, which is what you said, Athena, which is an interesting stablecoin play.

52:59Some of those, but I don't know if those are parabolic. I don't know if those are like the next trades need to come from the NFT degenment of the market. And there's been some very big gains in Rekt and Pengu. These are the coins that have led that. I don't think as a concept, it's that difficult to replicate the idea of a strong brand within crypto using a coin as a form of marketing or unlock their community. Like you said, there's a lot more now that can be done with some of these coins. And there are some strong brands in crypto. So I don't know if we're going to start to see. there's been some kind of fumbles i think within the nft community because they're like closing down right at the point where i feel like yeah if you had a strong brand in crypto you can do quite a lot with it so i think we may see some moves there like i i think the idea of brand the brand coin narrative could could really um could really grow i also think that could come from outside of crypto you know like could a barstool barstool create a coin could like a um could one of these other cult-like brands come in and create a brand coin i think that now's the time that that could happen too so i'll be interesting to see how that develops i mean what you just highlighted So there is a trend of two worlds merging, right?

54:34We've often separated crypto as crypto and then the rest of the world, right? And now you have these digital asset treasury companies, which are kind of combining these NASDAQ traded companies with stocks, but they're holding treasury reserves in crypto. That's kind of weird, but now everyone's kind of doing it. And then you're describing like these larger, I think the Solana folk call it internet capital markets, right? We had like that Believe app phase, very short phase, where these companies, these traditional tech startups were IPO-ing with some kind of a meme coin. I think the main prohibitor of a lot of those companies being successful has been some form of legitimate framework from regulators to be like, okay, you know what, your token can be kind of some form of pseudo equity instrument, but like we need to just layer this in and figure this out and you're going to have to bear with us.

55:33It's going to take some time. There's the Clarity Act. There's the Genius Act. It's going to take time, right? But to your point, it's ironic that most crypto people are burned out right at the point where it's getting not easy, but way more amenable to do the thing that you've been trying to do. All those legal cases that you've been trying to fight are all being dropped now, right? Now's the time to up the aggression. But sadly, I think a lot of people are burned out. And you might be right, Mando, where we might just see the successful ones come from like traditional product minded folks from other sides of tech, which now see an opportunity.

56:12Yeah, I think Believe App was an interesting idea in the right time for it. It just wasn't quite right with the execution. And I think the difficulty is that these NFT companies which built brands, they just have a lot of fixed costs and didn't prepare for this essentially in the right way. and then they they almost like if they started all over right now like if nft season actually started right now and it didn't happen 2021 you could actually do way more and that's kind of the it almost happened too early and people got burned and the promises weren't correct interesting like moonbergs kind of they've done like a rebuild and maybe they go down this route of like right they've got a brand maybe they can try and do it so that's what i'm like looking at and i've bought a few moonbirds for that sort of reason but i do think it's now the time to like look at which brands are around and do some interesting things with them um cool we've got we've got five minutes i think this maybe this maybe goes to some of the questions and i'll i think they are generally ai so maybe we'll pitch into both of us but um oh yeah firstly let's shout out to our affiliate we're sponsored by arch public uh you know the guys come on the show back very very often um obviously the ai algo i bet has been trading around uh ethan bitcoin if you think we're going to be trending for the next little period i think it's a very interesting thing to own particularly for the bitcoin uh product so go check them out at realvision.com forward slash arch and now to the questions um so shafiq on the real vision website says what do you think will happen to coinbase in a few months will when will we get a major pullback do you do you look at Coinbase stock, is that an interesting one for you?

57:50I mean, I formerly worked there. So I have, yeah, yeah. So I have a bunch of Coinbase stock. I mean, in my heart of hearts, I hope. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Great, great trade of my working time back in the day, I guess. Yeah, so it's surpassed all-time highs from its DPO, DPO, not IPO, because it was a direct offering, right? And funnily enough, its previous all-time, or its previous all-time high was$420.69. Then it kind of like blew past that. I honestly don't have an answer for you, Mando. I don't know. All I know is that if any single company is positioned the best to own all of crypto inflows and outflows, transaction type stablecoin transfers, it's going to be Coinbase, but it's not without competition.

58:46and Robinhood is breathing down their neck right now, right? Stripe is kind of like taking out the infrastructure route. And I know that Coinbase has strategically been trying to figure out the infrastructure side of things more so than the consumer side of things. They're paying a lot of attention to the consumer side of things with Basin, etc. But like they really wanted to own the infraside of things. They've got two competitors breathing down their backs. I don't know when that translates into market progression. Maybe all three of them kind of like go up only. I know Stripe isn't public yet, but maybe in the private markets.

59:18I don't know. I don't have an easy answer on that. Yeah, I think people are looking at a lot of these right now. I think any of them with a unique story, but I think the fact that Coinbase owns the chain, it's, I think, and it obviously does a ton of different things. It doesn't just do one thing. It's not just an exchange. I think it's an interesting equity story. galaxy people have been looking at as well which does a various thing in crypto and obviously some of the more unique stories like circle but it just feels like people are reaching for equity exposure in crypto and yeah i i it's it's you know it can start to trade very different to a discounted cash flow sort of valuation when when people start to do that like it can really blow past all expectations And so I would definitely be buying Coinbase.

1:00:14I think it's a very interesting trade here. Melvin on the Real Vision website says, which AI agents in crypto are still worth looking at? So I think we touched upon this earlier, like maybe the major agents are now kind of coming from the Magnificent Seven. But are there any crypto native firms you're kind of looking at that you think are doing interesting things? Yeah. Yeah, so there's still a few that I kind of default use or play around with that are useful. And I think that more importantly, that teams are just heads down trying to solve the problem, which I think is actually the most important thing to figure out if you're looking at it from an investment perspective, or just even a research perspective.

1:00:56So just a few, and none of these are like, I'm invested in or whatever, it's just more like I use them. Griffen is really good. Griffen, G-R-I-F-F-A-I-N. Really cool company. And the founders are just ex-product people from Silicon Valley, right? So they're not really focused on token price and stuff. They just want to build a good product. And arguably, it is one of the slickest ones out there, right? The other kind of sector in AI agents that I spend a lot of time on is which agent gives me the best yield. Best yield doesn't mean highest yield, but consistent yield, right? So like I check my account balance every two weeks and I'm like, okay, am I consistently getting X percentage in my account?

1:01:44I've tracked it over like six months or so right now. One that stands out to me, again, I'm not invested in it, is Giza, G-I-Z-A, just a solid founder and team that have been just kind of like trying to ship agent vaults, which basically manage any kind of capital that you give it across like a bunch of different lending strategies, hub strategies, whatever that might be. And then there's a few other agents that are kind of out there like that are more performative. And by performative, I mean like they're more consumer oriented, like Ask Billy Betts. Ask Billy Betts is, I mean, we spoke about Polymarket and Cal Sheehy earlier, right?

1:02:27Ask Philly Bets is a sports betting agent, which sounds ridiculous on the face of it. And I also thought it was ridiculous until I met the team and I actually saw their product and I saw how it works. And I was like, oh, okay. So you're not one of those AI agent teams that are just LARPing. You've actually built something really unique here. And if you don't believe me, go check out its win record over the last like three months. It's been performing against human bettors in the sports betting realm and it's been beating them. So just a fun one out there. Well, that makes sense. I mean, we spoke about that for the prediction markets.

1:03:00It's going to be the same for sports betting, I'm sure. And then there'll be arbitrage ones that we spoke about. I do think betting markets and prediction markets is where we're going to see some very, very strong agents. So those are three useful ones. I think finally, there was a question here from BLA on YouTube. Any concerns with the surge of ETH being at stake? So if you're not aware at the moment, there is, oh, well, how ETH works is you often stake it at some of the major staking companies. Lido is probably the major one. And I think there's, I think, billions at this stage of ETH waiting to be unstaked.

1:03:36At the same time, there is billions waiting to stake. But, yeah, when this last happened, we saw a big underperformance of ETH, although there wasn't the same amount. It's the net, which I think is important. Or is there anything else that you wanted to kind of add on that? I wasn't that worried when I looked at this. Yeah, I'm not worried for the same reason why people shouldn't really be worried on BTC and ETH long term. So, OK, let's play this out. Let's say billions of ETH is unstaked. Short term, that might create a lot of dampening volatility, right? people are selling to profit out or cash out, whatever that might be.

1:04:19But if you look at the long-term picture, all these ETFs, including the BlackRock ETF, has filed for staking. So what do you think is going to happen to all the BTC inflows that have been piling in over the last couple of months? It's going to get staked. Yeah, this is what I thought as well. I think it's very key to look at the net figure. And the net figure is much smaller than when this happened this time last year. When this happened early last year, I think it was, you saw like a 25 % underperformance of ETH after that. And it is a good signal, but the net figure is the really important one.

1:04:54And yeah, clearly with all the staking ETFs, it feels as though we're going to see a lot more staked over the medium term. I think that's probably one of the reasons why we've seen a huge inflow into the ETFs. Okay. I think we've just come up on an hour, But it was awesome to have you this week, EJS. I think we're going to have you in kind of the rotation that we spoke about. So maybe we'll see you towards the end of next month. And hopefully we'll have a ton more AI, crypto, NFT news we can kind of go through. But you've done a really good job of filling in for Zeph as our first co-host. I don't think I could ever fill the shoes of him, but it was an honor being able to try.

1:05:34Thanks for having me on. This was super, super fun. I love talking about this stuff. Awesome. Yeah, we've loved having you too. So that was it for this week, guys. Obviously, go check us out on the Real Vision website. You can bear it in the subscription options there, or you'll be able to see us for free on YouTube as well next week. We're going to have a different co-host come in for then. But we'll see you again next time. And thanks a lot for tuning in, guys. See you guys.

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