Will Crypto Catch Up to Stocks? | REKT Vision (October 24, 2025)

0:00For those of us who live in brief crypto, Bitwise is a name you want to know. They've been in the game since 2017 and now manage over 10 billion in crypto assets across 30 different solutions. Index funds, Bitcoin and crypto equity ETFs, on-chain solutions, you name it, Bitwise does it. But here's what I really recommend checking out. Their weekly CIO memo. Every week, CIO Matt Hogan breaks down what's happening in crypto. Like why Bitcoin's up or down, what the big institutions are doing, and the story is flying under the radar. It's sharp, it's free, and honestly, it's one of the best reads in crypto.

0:32Find it at bitwiseinvestments.com forward slash CIO memo. Again, bitwiseinvestments.com forward slash CIO memo.

1:02dashboard, Binance helps you go at your own pace. For the hardcore traders, Binance Pro opens a industry-leading services for trading professionals with fully bespoke trading products along with a suite of white glove services for VIP and institutional clients. Need support? 24-7 customer service is on hand whenever you need it. And with some of the lowest fees and deepest liquidity in the market. It's no surprise over 285 million users trust Binance for everything crypto. Download Binance today and get started in minutes. Binance is not available in certain countries, including the US. Check its terms for more.

1:44Hey everyone, as you know, on this podcast, I bring the best guests in the world at that nexus of understanding of macro crypto in the exponential age of technology. If you're enjoying the show, a quick five-star rating goes a long way. It helps us grow and keep these conversations coming with the best guests in the world. Thanks a lot.

2:27Well, hello. Welcome to another episode of Rect Vision. This week, we have stats back on the show. Markets, luckily, not looking that terrible today, although we continue to underperform stocks, which isn't really the best scenario to be in. But hopefully, this is going to be one of the very rare, greener Fridays, although the market has been dumping as we've been speaking. Good to have you on, Stats. How are you doing? I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing, Amanda? I am doing fantastic. Like I said, it's been a little bit painful if you're just sitting there looking at charts or focus on crypto all week because I think we've just been in this horrific chop from kind of about 108k, 107k to like 112.

3:09We just, it's been a very, very tight range. It's got like for a while here. Have you been trading actively during this period or are you just taking it easy? I haven't been trading actively. I've never traded that actively. We're launching a product though. at a meme line called ace trader which is focused on day traders so i'm working on starting up a show kind of focus on day trading so i'm getting a little bit more into the mind space uh so yeah i'm pretty pumped about that i can kind of give you the skinny on an ace trader at some point god i don't know if i did enjoy creating a day trading uh app right now it's it's really not been the uh the best little period the basic premise of ace trader though is that so basically you pay one example you pay nine dollars and if you pay nine dollars then we then you have a one thousand dollar kind of like paper trading stash and if certain criteria met like if you get it up to fifteen hundred then meme land gives you a thousand dollars of real capital to trade so the idea is it's like a limited loss way to actually trade your book without worrying about losing everything just kind of give you access where you're getting the dopamine hits you have real upside you know because if you actually do trade well you get you get a thousand dollars of real cash uh that you get to trade in and it's like an 80 20 split on the profits but if you boss you only lose nine bucks and then we have a hundred dollar and a 169 tier as well where you can earn a 10 000 or 20 000 bag so yeah it's a it's kind of a fun product and the repeat rates of people who join is pretty high so it's product market fit feels like it's right yeah i mean you're definitely going to find people who can degen.

4:50If you can make it to fit the scroll economy of like Zoom, I think that can probably work quite well. I think with MemeNan, that will work quite well. Overall, just to give it a little bit of a market picture, though, we are kind of here, 110K on Bitcoin again. BNB around 1 ,100, Solana 190, and ETH kind of still below 4K. We had, again, a couple of hairy moments. where it's felt like we were going to break down i think bitcoin probably touched as low as like 105k this week but it's kind of bounced back and and frustratingly this has been in an environment where the stock market and well not a goal for the whole week but gold has been a very strong let's say medium-term trend and the stock market's been it's up again today just breaking new highs it feels like every day.

5:46We've spoken about this quite a lot before, about this is a lot of digestion of long-term supply. But just from where you're sitting as well, Stats, because I know you're kind of involved in looking at macro and stocks and maybe where you are in the world also makes you look at a lot more of the tech side of the world. Do you think we're just losing out in this medium-term battle for focus from investors at the moment? Is crypto just kind of like this forgotten horse at the moment? It feels a little bit like it. I think we got so much adrenaline and so much buy pressure from the DATS and from, you know, from Saylor and from all these other, I mean, we just had like six months of everyone and their mom's VC trying to raise money to, you know, to buy Bitcoin and expect people to pay you 1.2X for every$1.

6:41and that was a ton of buying. And I think we reaped the benefits of that. But now the flip side to having buyers who aren't long-term holders, who aren't people who believe is that eventually that starts to deflate a little bit. So I feel like that's a bit of a headwind. I never know what's going on with the whales and who are the big wallets that actually matter in this space. I have a harder time with that. But I think the underperformance of gold has been pretty annoying. The underperformance of the stock market is a little annoying. net net i think it's hard not to see it as a buying opportunity at least for the majors like that's just kind of i feel like we're about to go into a stretch where jerome powell leaves and someone who you know and we're going to get just an extremely loose fed and i feel like that's kind of what risk assets are telling us right now and i feel like that has to be conducive to bitcoin continuing to do well if whatever technical overhang or fundamental overhang we have clears up a bit yeah i mean it's very difficult to pinpoint exactly who who is the people selling but it does seem to be a large, even this week, we kind of rallied at one stage up to$113 ,000,$114 ,000 when gold dipped that midweek.

7:50And then seemingly a big wallet came in and sold on Binance. And then people have, you know, there's a lot of talk about manipulation when you start to get this level. So I think it's a little bit tinfoil hatty. But it does feel as though there are definitely some big wallets that continue continuing to sell and i don't know if that's going to be just a temporary thing or it's a four-year cycle thing or um yeah maybe maybe it's a little bit of suppression who who kind of knows i it has been it has definitely been frustrating for a lot of people because bitcoin dominance has been going higher as well in this world we're back up to around 60 on bitcoin dominance which just meant that kind of all you've had is all coins bleeding we did have some slightly bullish news out of some of the l1s this week bnb looks like cd did get the pardon which we were speaking about for a while that went up to about 1150 but it's just kind of hanging out where it was and then hyper liquid hyper liquid had a bit of a bounce back up to around 40 they went on tbpn which is this famous tech uh podcast this week um at least jeff did the founder and they got listed on robin hood and they i think there was a billion dollar dat also announced for them so some very good for hyper liquid still only at 40 like just kind of hanging out there again is hyper liquid one that you kind of have seen a bit more mainstream at the moment don't like you know i see like i get a lot of like mainstream finance press, and you see random things like the crypto exchange that's making billions that you've never heard of.

9:28Like Bloomberg will send that email, you know, coming from real people, you know, from Bloomberg. I see it on Yahoo Finance. You see it on the occasional portal. So I feel like Hyperliquid is just, yeah, I had a friend ping me, asked me about Hyperliquid. Just a guy who works for a hedge fund in New York, isn't in crypto. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like it's kind of bursting a little bit out into the world a little bit, and you're starting to see... a few more people take it seriously than, I mean, we all do, but you're starting to see people in the real world take it seriously. And I think in crypto, for people who want cash flowing assets or products where you can kind of understand where the money comes from, I feel like Hyperliquid's a little bit easier than most of the others.

10:08Yeah, I think within crypto, it's found its place. There's obviously been a bit more of a part-dex battle going on over the last few months, but hype has been one that i bought a little bit of this week i just kind of felt on the back of that him going on that on this podcast it just felt like one of these things where i think it goes a bit more mainstream that people i think he said some very like kind of crazy stuff like our town is all of finance all this stuff so it kind of it gets people either bullish or thinking it's kind of ridiculous at the same time but either way i guess kind of felt like that was going to turn heads and maybe that would that would cause a little bit of um a little bit of a rally but the ones that have been holding up in general even in this chop and this rising bitcoin dominance has been the revenue generating protocols um it's not like they're doing amazing but things like pump things like hyper liquid things like athena even asked to kind of bounce this week it feels as though that's still the strongest narrative um and largely alongside some of the defy stuff it is that kind of sorry i was just gonna say i was just gonna say is that kind of shocked you too that that versus this time last year and obviously you work with meme land as well which is kind of this touching upon like let's say finance with memes it's been surprising that all this DeFi stuff has kind of been the winners over the last 12 months.

11:37The only real stuff that feels like it has sustained interest. If you were having this conversation 12 months ago about what would be the stuff that rallies, you probably would have said a ton of memes. And now this feels like it's this stuff. It's a bit more drag fly. Yeah. I think people, one thing I learned working at Goldman Sachs for eight years and talking to a lot of investors is when people are talking about the future, it's normally a good metric or a good proxy for what's happened in the past two weeks. So yeah, meme coins were running. So everyone says meme coins are the new meta and then they rally.

12:09But the problem is when Farccoin goes from one to 50 cents or from a buck to 30 cents, who's to say that's a buy? Farccoin is only a buy if you have people on the timeline saying that this is the new Dogecoin and freaking out about it and telling everyone. But once that chart kind of has that met, once that chart has its moment and then you realize like actually like this is not this cultural thing we hoped it would be it becomes very hard to bet on it going back to a billion before it goes to zero like you know i mean zero is the wrong number because these things tend to have communities that like don't take them to zero but like i think meme coins is just like or take mog or any of these things for example like when that when the community and the narrative run out of mojo and run out of energy.

12:57Like, what are you buying?

13:01Have you ever wanted to trade Bitcoin but haven't dared try? With Plus500 Futures, you can trade crypto without the hassle of opening a wallet. With just a few clicks, you can register and start practicing with their free and unlimited demo. See a trading opportunity? You'll be able to trade it in just two clicks. Feel ready? You can move to real money with as little as$100 once your account is approved. And the great thing is that in addition to crypto, Plus500 gives you access to a wide range of instruments. S &P 500, NASDAQ, gas, and much more. Explore equity indices, energy, metals, forex, and beyond.

13:34With a simple and intuitive platform, you could trade anytime, anywhere. Experience the fast, accessible futures trading you've been waiting for with Plus500. With over 20 years of experience, Plus500 is your gateway to the markets. Visit us.plus500.com to learn more. Trading in futures involves the risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify. Plus 500. It's trading with a plus. I know, but I mean, this time 12 months ago, you know, utility was bearish. It was like memes. Everything is a meme. You need to own that and the strongest memes will survive. You know, it was like kind of more like the original Doge Bitcoin sort of narrative, right?

14:14Like it's just as valuable as we all think it was. Now it feels like utility is valuable. And even, I mean, obviously two weeks ago we had this horrific dump, which just took out so many different altcoins. They just haven't bounced, those alts. Like, well, particularly not the memes, but the vast majority of altcoins have kind of gone back to that lower level now, which is kind of a little bit disturbing. Even with Bitcoin,$110K, you know, it's really bounced. But there's definitely been some damage, longer term damage than I think I would have originally expected from that move. I kind of felt like we would get a really nice flush and bounce.

14:56And it's really just been a bounce in Bitcoin and a couple of these sort of like revenue producing protocols. Yeah, look, I think everything else is a momentum asset. Like, it's just hard to call these things anything other than momentum assets. And when the momentum dies, what are you buying? You know, and it's like you're buying a hope that the momentum returns and that the community returns and that the cultural attention returns like that's what you're buying. But when people just got wiped out and people are a bit more afraid of leverage, that's the other piece. Like I mentioned the debts in the beginning, but I also think you want to like you kind of got to wonder how much leverage has driven this market.

15:30And when you get the flush that you got to two weeks ago, like just does that remove that kind of that piece of the market from from from where you're at? You know, and how much are we suffering now? Because you don't have people buying alts on 20x leverage because that was what killed them two weeks ago. And, you know, I think like, you know, and that's what you hear stories of people got totally wiped out. So like, it just feels like the market's just a bit simmered down to that. And I think that becomes especially hard with the tokens that don't have fundamental value and whose only value is the community and the momentum.

16:03And in that environment, though, something like hype can keep doing well, you know, because that's it's just easier to wrap your head around the idea of I want to get access. to the perp decks that is kind of taking over crypto and probably will continue to do so in the future. And I want access to those earnings. Like, that's just an easier story to not get too bearish about, especially when you're getting listed on Robinhood. And like, you know, I think like with Solana, there's always this kind of like underlying tension that some ETFs are going to happen. And, you know, I think like when you have those narratives, like things stay afloat.

16:33When you start losing that stuff, like it becomes really hard to buy at any valuation. Do you have a strong view on the cycle? Or if we're in a cycle? Or are you more of a view that we're following a bit more of macro here? I feel like this cycle is still intact. I feel like the animal spirits aren't there in the same way that we like them to be. But I just think we're going to continue to be in the way. All risk assets are saying we're entering a loose money period. Like that Trump's going to get his way when it comes to the Fed. they're going to get a new Fed chair, which we all know is a fact because Jerome Powell's term ends.

17:11And that, you know, Trump's a real estate guy. He wants 0 % interest rates. Like it's just what he wants. And he's going to like do whatever. He's not going to pick someone who's not going to be as dovish as humanly imaginable. And that's coming in eight months. And I just think like, I just don't know. And I think that's what gold's telling us. That's, you know, Bitcoin's just, I just feel like over time, eventually you just get these catch up rallies, but And we're still just getting used to Bitcoin being over 100K. That was a huge deal a few months ago. We're getting used to it. Crypto has been overall strong.

17:46But I'm not too worried about it. As far as the animal spirit cycle, though, that does feel like that's kind of losing a bit of its mojo on that. And we care about the animal spirits. One thing my dad always says is in a bull market, you just got to show up. And the problem with crypto is people get cute. You start going, this is a bull market. Just put yourself in the majors that are going to rally. And if you get too cute in doing leverage, if you're buying like some flyer that doesn't have fundamental value, but you think it's going to 5X, like I feel like that's where people are not making money in these cycles.

18:19Yeah, that's, I mean, it's tough for us because we do have to show up in the bear markets. I mean, I definitely do. I do like a daily show and daily podcast, but there's definitely been moments over the last few weeks. I'm just like, you know what? I could really use just 48 hours of not looking at this sort of stuff. It's been such a horrific chop during this period. And you will have to have that faith that it will catch up. I know Raoul was pitching kind of this catch up with gold. And that was a bit of the narrative, you know, like it felt like, oh, gold's moving. We always see Bitcoin move after gold moves.

18:51Gold then did dip. And Bitcoin initially looked like it was about to shoot up and then just got smashed right back down. It's like, what are we waiting for here, guys? The lack of correlation is pretty wild. I mean, I'm not sure like the numbers on how historically correlated there. I can kind of have a look at that right now, actually. But like, it is wild how it's almost like gold and Bitcoin are moving in opposite directions. Like, I mean, Bitcoin's historically been more correlated with like Tesla than gold anyway. But like, but even there on the tech side, it just feels like it's kind of marching right now.

19:22Yeah, I mean, I wish it was correlated to Tesla. It doesn't feel like it's correlated to either of them right now is the point. It just feels it's its own thing. It just goes sideways. Anyways, if you kind of zoom out on the Bitcoin chart, we have kind of been in this, let me bring up the daily, been here since May, basically, after we rebounded. But before that, we were kind of chopping around the 100K level for a while. It's been a remarkably tight range over those sort of periods. We had one period of chop, broke down, broke back out pretty quickly, and then been in this chop sit for a few months.

20:04I think it's December. I still think we've got more time out of this. My gut tells me that Bitcoin dominance will continue to go high here the more we chop. I think it's just after that flush in alts, I think there's just a lot of, and just the general timeline exhaustion, question I feel as though people are ready to throw out their alts as soon as they go down like three to five percent because this is not a lot of faith in them and if Bitcoin doesn't break out or start to hit full-time highs I think people will just be like look I'm going to be coming for a little bit here so yeah I have I've definitely been rotating even more into into kind of Bitcoin over this period now but I'm bullish I am bullish but I do think that it's going to be it's a period here where Bitcoin dominance goes even higher.

20:54What does that mean you're bullish? You're bullish on crypto? You're bullish on alts? Or are you bullish on just like Bitcoin? I'm bullish as in like I don't think this is the end of some sort of cycle. This doesn't feel to me like an end of cycle, Bitcoin goes down to 80k, you know something's really wrong. This feels to me like those periods of chop where everyone just has a terrible time cuts themselves off getting bullish on every 1 % moving Bitcoin. And it's probably better just to own Bitcoin and do nothing for a long time. Yeah. And that's kind of, honestly, that's kind of like what I've been doing.

21:31And like when things got dirty, like when that, like when the nasty correction happened, I was like buying Bitcoin, buying Solana and like neither of those trades have played out. I guess I'd say all those buys are like down a little bit. So maybe I'm just talking my book here. But yeah, I don't know. I'm still pretty bullish about it. The thing about crypto also is you just never know what whales, what dead whales are lurking under the tide. You never know when, where the leverage is, where is the unlined. I think these DATs start to put a little pressure or create a little bit of an existential risk a little bit, just in the sense that they start - You still think that?

22:13You still think the DATs are a worry? I feel like they've just come quiet rather than become a worry. Maybe that's the quiet before the storm. I don't want to be too sensationalist about it. I just wonder if these things really start trading at a discount to NAV in a meaningful way, do shareholders ever start to say, return the cash? Is that a viable option? Or is this Bitcoin just locked away forever and connected to a ticker? We don't have to worry about it. It's vaulted. you know but i i would think that there's very little reason anyone would want to own a dat relative to owning ibit or owning bitcoin itself so like why should why shouldn't they start trading at a very real discount and then at that point you just be like fuck it we'll sell the bitcoin and get the cash and make a 10 trade i have actually updated my thoughts slightly on that because i did speak to one of the key people at one of these major debts um or remain nameless but I said I asked like a seller but now I asked him about this discount like would they be attractive at any stage you know like someone that's above MNAV on someone who's below and he said no he said that like the legal ramifications often of these purchases and the difficulties in negotiations just means it's not worth it they might as well just buy the Bitcoin so that makes me think that consolidation won't happen and it will be a more messy situation like you just said um unless because shareholders would always just want to get mnav so why not um yeah so my time where if these things are available if there's any way to unwind the Bitcoin, a Citadel, or I don't know Citadel, but any big hedge fund, why wouldn't you just go buy it on demand cashback?

24:06That's like a quick 5 % trade, which makes someone's month. Yeah, exactly. It feels like that would be the quickest way, and then that is not the nicest unwind, is it, really? That is actually probably one of the main overhang if things go really badly. On the other hand, though, We have JP Morgan coming out today saying, look, we're going to allow Bitcoin and ETH used for collateral. Seemingly that would be for loans or property purchases, which I think is, when you start to get stuff like that, that's pretty useful, I think, for a huge financial power for these assets suddenly in the US. And that's been coming for a while, but it's definitely been there.

24:54it still feels like the market structure bill is that you know it's around i know there were crypto executives in washington this this week trying to speak to i think it was it senate democrats really trying to get them on the side around all this which i think it's gonna be a little bit of a difficult ask given what's been going on with with the trumps as we've spoken about before but there's still a path there i think and some people feel particularly bullish about it and then and then the i the other thing is like the government shutdown ideally ending and yeah then we i think there's something like 150 etfs waiting to be approved at the moment which would be you know that would be bullish too so this there is still some stuff is there i think the fundamental story is still bullish it's like you know vanguard you still can't even buy bitcoin that's going to change i imagine like all these different banks are finally starting to recommend crypto as kind of like a gold alternative.

25:51Like all the tail, you know, you're going to have an extremely loose monetary policy. You've got a president who, who is in bed with the crypto lobby. Like there are so many reasons to be bullish right now. It's just with crypto because you have these, these external things or the, like, we got this huge pump from the backs. Like they, you just get these overhangs that like have to get work through that kind of like can slow us down when everything else is pumping. And I think it's just that simple but i think the fundamental story is the same as it's been for the past year and it's pretty hard to deny that yeah yeah i think what's hard though it's hard though we're not we're dopamine people man we're not used to three-week chaps we're like fuck that man i'll take anything i'll take anything uh dopamine's gone all we've had is a massive liquidation which they managed to survive and then just more chop you would assume that would lead to like massive volatility in the background but it's kind of meant within this very tight range whenever we kind of get below 107 108k we've just kind of is he ever going to get to 5 000 is that ever i'm i'm more worried about eth and bitcoin just because i feel like eth had that what's this for the tom lee bit for you know for so long like that that bid those guys bought like two percent of ethereum in like a month.

27:12And that was such a tailwind. And it's like, what's the story without those guys? Whereas Bitcoin, I mean, the story's always kind of just been like, it's the next easiest thing to buy after Bitcoin's rallied. But first, we got to get Bitcoin to rally before we can start telling that story. And yeah, ETH almost worries me more. It's interesting to me that the majority of TrapFry friends that I know, they've never asked me about hype or solana they've only ever asked me about it and i think it's probably something that they've heard about so like they feel you know like oh yeah i've heard of that before i i still think that is quite powerful in terms of if being around for the longest as being seen as like quote unquote the safest whether that's true or not like that's a perception I think, I think it will be a big deal.

28:08It's the only one with an ETF other than Ibit right now. Like other than Bitcoin, like I think, right. It's hard to downplay how much that matters to a traditional finance guy. Like just because it's the simplicity and form factor. It's like, I can just buy it in one click. I can go on a Vanguard. I can go on a Schwab. I can go on a JPMorgan.com, whatever. I can do it. Everything I'm used to, it's lower fee to buy. I mean, Robinhood's easy to buy crypto, but they charge huge fees in and out. but if you buy ibit it's like apple stuff so i guess what i'm trying to say though is that as it goes higher particularly on this trad fi driving the price higher i think it actually it gains quite a lot of momentum unlike the many of the others because it feels like you have suddenly if you remember what the stories were like when he was you know at 5k basically it was look how much look how many stable coins they have like what a big narrative this is going to be that hasn't gone away look at like how long this has been around like we can we can tokenize everything and put it on eath all the big funds are doing that there was the dat trade uh coming and then it was the you know the e-foundations you know really turning stuff around and pushing forward with their own um their own agenda again and it really felt like that was like a turning point i think those things come back i think it's really just a period here of of narrative following prices it always kind of does but i don't know if i buy it i don't know if i buy it i think that the last rally was it was the joe lubin tom lee rally and then whenever there is but that's a shitty narrative you can't go around so oh we're just doing it because these two whales are buying two percent of ethereum in one month that's the only reason right no yeah much better is to be like but stable coins but gas but this but that but that like no that's that's just that I think that was all just like people trying to be able to look themselves in the mirror and stay bullish in the morning without realizing that we're dependent on two whales.

30:03And I just don't think that's a price driver. Look, I am fully in agreement with you that there was a narrative that was to be played. I was very public about when I played it and kind of when I got out of it too, or got out the majority of it at least. I agree that that narrative isn't coming back. So it needs to kind of get that narrative back a little bit. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I think a lot of these things solve themselves when Bitcoin starts sitting at all-time high. Do you know what I mean? It's like, these are the problems of us when Bitcoin feels slightly listless. And suddenly when Bitcoin hits 125K, everyone was like, well, it's definitely going to break from an all-time high now.

30:51Yeah. well i got a question for you i have not done what i normally do and gone to cryptopunks.app in a while i just didn't went to 30 80 what the fuck well have you not been following what went on uh because punk strategy oh did punk strategy is that what happened they lowered their price point well i think that's what's happened with a lot of the nfcs that ended up having the punks um having a strategy style token is that there was an initial drive up from buying of the NFTs. Remember, about two months ago as well, there was a lot of conversations about NFT debts and that we were about to see that.

31:34So a quick break in your regular programming. If you're serious about your future, grab my free report called Prepare for 2030. I think you've got five years to make as much money as possible. and this guide will help you navigate what's coming the link is in the description download it now and i i personally haven't seen any materialized although there may be some like just waiting to happen um i'd heard a lot about crypto punks stats and they would imminently get a launch and and you know crypto punks really just felt like they were just going to go they were going to moon and then suddenly that all just died away then punks actually came and did the same thing but there's a lot of nfts now owned by by these strategy tokens and i think the whole nft market has kind of been dragged down punk strategy i think actually only has like maybe 30 so it's not like the most crazy thing but they are kind of all for sale suddenly and yeah i don't know nfts definitely do not feel the second order impacts of the of the strategy tokens becoming big has generally been that nfts feel not good um punk strategy is down to 50 million now so that one was all the way up 300 i think at one stage and if i was to buy any of them it would have been punk strategy i think i said that when we had them on but now there's just such an inflation in the whole ecosystem and it's it's driven a lot of them down yeah What do you think about our trade now?

33:05Punks versus Bitcoin. One thing I learned when in the blur fiasco is that people buying stuff for a reason other than the fact that they like it and want to hold it tends to never end well. And it can have a real negative effect when you end up getting this bid, which leads to normal holders selling. And it's like a supply transfer of the incremental punk from real holders to this kind of like weird technical thing that at its core has zero interest in the collectible. And like that just tends to have a really heavy prices on NFTs because NFTs are all about perception. Like and if your perception of like the incremental buyer and seller is this entity that, you know, has zero interest in holding and everyone's there for another reason, like the entire the entire house of cards falls like everything.