Nine Black Men

25 Jun 2026 · 34 min · 14 chapters

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In short

The episode (from Reconstruction: The Unfinished Promise) explains how Black political power during Reconstruction translated into education as a “fulcrum for democracy,” and how HBCUs grew out of Black resistance to literacy bans. It highlights the 1870 ratification of the 15th Amendment, the surge of Black officeholders, and claims that schools helped drive measurable literacy gains (e.g., Black illiteracy down nearly 10% in 1870–1880). The episode’s centerpiece is Alabama State University’s founding: the “Marion Nine,” nine Black men whose incorporation papers (found in microfilm) revealed they founded the school in 1867. Notable founders include Alexander H. Curtis (enslaved in NC, bought freedom, later financed and led the school; elected to Alabama legislature in 1870) and Princess Webb (his wife). It also recounts opposition and violence, including the 1886 Marion incident involving Daniel Brown and Henrietta Curtis, leading to the school’s forced move to Montgomery.

Guests

Kelly Carter Jackson (Wellesley Africana Studies chair), Crystal Sanders (Emory professor; HBCU author), Manisha Sinha (UConn history; Reconstruction advisor), Jelani Favors (North Carolina A&T professor; Black higher education author).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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The Importance of Education in Reconstruction

3:28 to 3:45

Discover how education was viewed as essential for freedom by newly elected Black officials.

“My name is Malcolm Gladwell, and this is Reconstruction, The Unfinished Promise.”

The Importance of Education in Reconstruction

4:56 to 6:02

Discover how education was viewed as essential for freedom by newly elected Black officials.

“We're almost halfway through the year, and I'll be honest, I've had stretches where I'm running on empty without fully realizing it.”

The Fight for Education Post-Slavery

6:08 to 8:30

Examine how formerly enslaved people established schools despite oppressive laws.

“That's growtherapy.com slash reconstruction.”

The Story of the Marion Nine

8:30 to 10:44

Learn about the nine Black men who founded Alabama State University during Reconstruction.

“Alabama State was one of the first schools created to educate freed Black people during Reconstruction.”

Alexander H. Curtis: A Life of Achievement

10:44 to 14:00

Discover the life of Alexander H. Curtis and his contributions to the community.

“And one of my best friends now, he was down working on his new book.”

The Impact of Alexander and Princess

14:00 to 15:40

Explore the personal lives and legacy of Alexander Curtis and Princess Webb.

“what the value would be today, but that's a sizable amount of money.”

A New Era in Black Education

15:40 to 17:00

Learn about the state of Black education immediately after the Civil War.

“Can you talk about what the state of Black education looks like right after the Civil War ends?”

Formation of Alabama State

17:00 to 19:20

Discover how the Marion Nine and community members established Alabama State.

“That's where Alexander Curtis and the Marion Nine stepped in.”

Political Representation in Reconstruction

19:20 to 21:40

Understand the significant political roles Black men held during Reconstruction.

“And that's what made Reconstruction so radical.”

The Danger of Education

21:40 to 23:00

Discuss the perceived threat of Black education to the Southern status quo.

“Within a decade of the Civil War, half of all the children in South Carolina, Florida and Mississippi were enrolled in schools.”
Show all 14 chapters

Challenges and Triumphs of Alabama State

24:44 to 28:00

Relive the evolution of Alabama State and the struggles faced by its students.

“Staff writer Evan Osnos on the New Yorker Radio Hour.”

Henrietta Curtis and the Confrontation

28:00 to 30:28

Learn about the confrontation involving Daniel Brown and the response of Henrietta Curtis that led to significant changes for Black institutions in Marion.

“Daniel Brown decided to, he wasn't going to get off the sidewalk and a confrontation occurs.”

The Legacy of Alabama State University

30:28 to 32:42

Explore the history of Alabama State University and its role in the civil rights movement, including key figures like Joanne Robinson.

“There was a warning earlier that day, so the campus was closed and quiet.”

Education and Human Nature

32:42 to 35:08

Discuss the relationship between education, democracy, and human nature as reflected in the histories of HBCUs and the civil rights movement.

“This was the seminal birth of the modern America civil rights movement.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:03We are now in Washington, D.C., February 25, 1870. A special dispatch goes out from the jam-packed galleries of Congress. Mr. Revels, the colored senator from Mississippi, was sworn in and admitted to his seat this afternoon at 4.40 o 'clock. As Revels approached the speaker's desk to take his oath, the galleries rose to their feet, quote, that they might miss no word or lose no glimpse of what was being enacted below. This dispatch, published in the New York Times, described the confirmation of the country's first-ever Black person to serve in Congress, Hiram Revels. The United States is still in the aftershocks of the Civil War, but changing quickly.

0:51It's been five years since the Confederacy surrendered. The Union's top general, Ulysses Grant, is now the president. And he's a very different man from his predecessor, the southerner, Andrew Johnson. Grant supports the radical reconstruction agenda. That includes full citizenship for all people born in the United States, and full enfranchisement for men. Congress has just passed the 15th Amendment to the Constitution, prohibiting states from denying any man the right to vote, on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. Nearly 2 ,000 Black people stepped into public office during Reconstruction, 16 in Congress, and the rest in state and local offices.

1:35They entered the roles of people who governed daily life in the South. They became magistrates and tax assessors, county sheriffs, and state lawmakers. It's hard to overstate what a massive change this marked in the life of the United States, or what a massive job these newly elected Black officeholders had in front of them. After the Civil War, the South needed to be reimagined. It needed to become, for the first time really, a democratic society. Everything needed to be rethought. And when I spoke with President Barack Obama, he wanted to talk about perhaps the biggest priority for many new Black officials.

2:14Schools. One of the things I love when you read about Reconstruction is how much Black folks understood literacy and education as intricately tied to freedom. The degree to which they thought our number one project here is let's start a bunch of schools to make sure that our people have a chance to learn how to read and write. That's the one thing that the white majority couldn't constrain. Learning. Yeah. Can't block that. We can lock this in our heads. And they understood that, but it also influences generally this notion that then carries over to the broader society of public education, that citizenship, equality, power, all of that is tied to our ability to understand and communicate and analyze the society.

3:23that we're in. That's what gives us agency and that's what gives us power. My name is Malcolm Gladwell, and this is Reconstruction, The Unfinished Promise.

3:44One thing I've been very fortunate to do in my life is travel. Political events, music festivals, and of course, big sporting events. It really never gets less exciting. In my position as executive director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches, each year I attend our convention at the Final Four. The hardest part is always finding a place that actually feels like home in the middle of all that energy. And that's why hosting on Airbnb makes so much sense, especially when something big is happening in your area. You've got people coming in who don't just want a place to crash. They want to feel like they're a part of the neighborhood, even if it's for just a few days.

4:27If you've got an extra room or even your whole place available while you're away, it can be a really easy way to earn some additional income. And Airbnb gives you tools to make it simple. I always think about it like this. When I travel, the places I remember most are the ones that felt personal. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. We're almost halfway through the year, and I'll be honest, I've had stretches where I'm running on empty without fully realizing it. Because making space for yourself is harder than it sounds. Grow therapy can help you figure out what you're carrying, what needs to change, and how to show up for yourself the way you show up for everybody else before burnout becomes the baseline.

5:17Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it simple to find a therapist who actually fits you. They connect you with thousands of licensed therapists across the U.S., virtual or in-person, nights and weekends, and if something comes up, cancel up to 24 hours in advance with no cost. You can search by insurance, specialty, identity, and availability and start in as little as two days. No subscriptions, no long-term commitments. Just pay per session on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan.

6:03Visit growtherapy.com slash reconstruction today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash reconstruction.

6:16During slavery, most southern states had laws on their books that punished enslaved people for reading and writing, and punished white people for teaching them. As President Obama says, this left black people after the Civil War all the more determined to get a formal education. And just as they did with voting and running for office, they did not wait to start their own schools, even if they could not read or write themselves. These schools are the ultimate story of resistance. Some would eventually become what we now call historically black colleges and universities, or HBCUs. But exactly how did the schools first get established?

6:59Each of them has its own story, and these stories are dramatic. with twists and turns that take a lot of detective work to follow. This is the kind of research that is especially suited for a scholar of Black resistance movements. Enter Kelly Carter Jackson.

7:18Kellie Carter Jackson:This structure straight ahead looks like a slide and a, like a wristwatch or... I have no idea. Maybe... Jackson is chair of Africana Studies at Wellesley College. She's standing in Montgomery, Alabama with a local historian, a man named Joseph Caver. Here is the memorial, the Centennial Memorial put up in 1974. Caver is a graduate of Alabama State. He was on campus when the school erected its Centennial Memorial in 1974. The memorial is a big metal structure in the middle of campus. It looks like a giant looped ribbon. And you can see the tributes around. The tributes are small plaques laid in the ground, each engraved with the names of important people in the school's history.

8:20That's number three.

8:21Kellie Carter Jackson:William Burns Patterson Harbor Council. These are the president. Wow. It's a lovely tribute, but it's incomplete. Alabama State was one of the first schools created to educate freed Black people during Reconstruction. And like so much of Reconstruction, the particulars of the school's early history were, until recently, just forgotten. It's not totally clear why or how the school lost track of its origin story. But when Joseph Kaver started digging into his alma mater's past, he discovered something really interesting. In the story of this one school, you can see what Barack Obama pointed out to me, the way education became a fulcrum for democracy in the South.

9:06And not just during Reconstruction, but all the way through the Civil Rights Movement. Kelly Carter Jackson graduated from another HBCU, Howard University. When she heard the true backstory of Alabama State's founding, she had to know more. Here she is with that story.

9:26Kellie Carter Jackson:Not long after Alabama State University laid its tributes to past presidents into the ground, Joseph Caver made a discovery. I'm here working at State Arch� down in the basement. And this graduate student from Auburn University working on her dissertation. And she said, Joe, they got it all wrong over at Alabama State. And she took me upstairs in the library over next door. And we went to the American Missionary Association microfilm collection. She loaded the microfilm for Alabama State and scrolled to something remarkable. It was two pages, the incorporation papers and the signature of the nine Black men.

10:16Kellie Carter Jackson:Nine Black men. All previously unknown to the school's official history. Joseph realized that Alabama State's origin story left out an entire chapter. The incorporation papers revealed that these men founded his alma mater in 1867, making it one of the first schools created during the early years of Reconstruction. I came running down the stairs.

10:46And one of my best friends now, he was down working on his new book. and I jumped up and I said, Mills, look at this. And he read it. He said, Joe, they got it all wrong with Alabama State. I said, yes, I know.

11:06Kellie Carter Jackson:Joseph dug up all the details he could find on each of the nine men and wrote them back into the history of the school. Ivy Parrish was a carpenter. Thomas Speed was a blacksmith from North Carolina. Nicholas Dale was a carpenter and a merchant. Thomas Lee was a farmer who would also go on to help write Alabama's new constitution. Nathan LaVert was also a farmer. John Freeman, he was a carpenter, which comes to use when the building of the school is self-done by the local community. James Childs was a shoemaker. He made boots and shoes and also was a minister. One of my favorite details comes from the life of David Harris.

11:51Kellie Carter Jackson:He was a merchant, plasterer, and brick mason from Tennessee. And to celebrate his emancipation, he commissioned a desk, the kind where the desktop folds up. I love picturing him sitting there, organizing his quills, writing letters. Joseph gave the founders a name, the Marion Nine.

12:17Kellie Carter Jackson:Although the campus today is in Montgomery, Alabama, the school was established about 75 miles to the west in Marion. The Marion had a larger population of Black servants than field hands. And those Black servants picked up reading before the end of the Civil War. Five of the nine Black founders could read and write. Wow. They signed the incorporation papers. Among the Marion Nine, the most notable name is Alexander H. Curtis. because Alexander is such a great example of how Black people during Reconstruction just leapt into becoming new American citizens. He lived a brief life. He died in his late 40s.

13:03Kellie Carter Jackson:But in that time, Alexander did extraordinary things. He was born into slavery in North Carolina and was brought to Alabama when he was around 10 years old. He was a skilled laborer while enslaved, and he did all kinds of jobs, from operating a barbershop to bookkeeping and tailoring. As Alexander got older, he was able to sell this work outside of the plantation and keep some of the profits. This was not uncommon. Enslaved people had skills that could be hired out, or occasionally even crops or products like eggs and butter to sell. In some parts of the South, enslaved people were told they could save up to purchase their freedom through this kind of side hustle.

13:48Kellie Carter Jackson:Alexander was one of those who succeeded. Just before the Civil War began, he bought freedom for himself and his wife for$2 ,000. I don't know what the current rate of$2 ,000 in 1858, what the value would be today, but that's a sizable amount of money. Sizable indeed. It's nearly$80 ,000 today.

14:15Kellie Carter Jackson:Alexander's wife is interesting as well. She was a woman named Princess Webb. The princess part of her name is not random. She was the actual descendant of a princess from Madagascar, like all the way on the eastern side of Africa, who had been kidnapped and enslaved in the American colonies. Princess and Alexander were about the same age and appeared to have fallen in love in their 20s. that got married and raised nine children. I haven't been able to find a photo of them together, but there's one of Princess later in life. She has long outlived Alexander, making it to nearly 80 years old. She's sitting draped in a thick fur-trimmed coat, a dark fur hat with a bow and feathers perched on top of her beautifully coiffed white hair.

15:03Kellie Carter Jackson:And she looks fully regal. She also looks no-nonsense, like I'm a little intimidated. But it's fitting because Princess and Alexander were important people in Reconstruction-era Alabama. So he has his hand in groceries, barbering, politics, religion. He's all over the place. He's a distinguished man. And perhaps because he was a parent, or maybe because he likely had to teach himself to read in secret while enslaved, When the Civil War ends and Reconstruction begins, Alexander is fired up about creating a school for newly freed people. Can you talk about what the state of Black education looks like right after the Civil War ends?

15:53Sure. When we look at what formerly enslaved people did in the years after the Civil War, they are really trying hard to reunite their families. They're trying to legalize their marriages, and they are trying to distance themselves from their enslaved past by acquiring literacy.

16:10Kellie Carter Jackson:Crystal Sanders is a professor at Emory University and the author of a book about historically Black colleges. And so we know that in the aftermath of the Civil War, throughout the Reconstruction period, there are large numbers of white women coming from the North to work in Black schools. But by the time that these women arrived, what they're finding is that Black people on the ground throughout the South had already begun to set up their own schools. They had already begun to find ways to ensure that they would learn to read and write so they could read a labor contract and that they could read the Bible.

16:46Kellie Carter Jackson:Often, the challenge in starting a school was access to money. That was true for Alabama State as well. Initially, a white missionary set up a makeshift school in Marion, but it was quickly overwhelmed by the number of Black people who wanted to become students. They needed resources to expand. That's where Alexander Curtis and the Marion Nine stepped in. They said, hey, we can raise the seed money. Alexander Curtis is the backbone of all of that. He leads the effort to finance the school and making it a normal school to teach students how to teach. He went around town with a subscription list, signing up parents as donors.

17:27Kellie Carter Jackson:There were suppers and ladies' fairs with cakes and jellies, and it worked. With a combination of money from Black parents, donations from some white residents, and funds from the federal government, they got enough resources to expand the school. They bought land and built a handsome, white, two-story building with four classrooms and a space for aspiring teachers to practice lecturing. The Marion Nine, including Alexander, became trustees of the school. They initially named it Lincoln, likely after Abe, though for the sake of clarity, I'm just going to refer to it by its current name, Alabama State.

18:04Kellie Carter Jackson:And in November of 1867, two years after the end of the war, the first classes began, even though the building was still under construction. Lincoln School of Marion, Alabama. Of what grade? Primary and intermediate. What number of pupils enrolled during the month? 113. Male, 49. Female, 64. What number free before the war? Zero. Shortly after the school opened, Alexander got appointed as a county registrar. And in 1870, the same year that the 15th Amendment was ratified, establishing a constitutional right that allowed black men to vote, Alexander Curtis was elected to the state legislature. There's a great photo of him too.

18:54Kellie Carter Jackson:He's posing with his fellow state senators, and he's standing towards the front of the Capitol steps. He's got this thick build and a long but tidy beard underlining his round face, and his bow tie is neatly looped. He looks so handsome. And what's more, he's not the only Black face in the photo. So one of the things that is so astounding about Reconstruction is that there were many Black leaders who achieved political power at various levels in the South. And that's what made Reconstruction so radical. Manisha Sinha is the chair of the history department at the University of Connecticut and an advisor on this series.

19:37Kellie Carter Jackson:More than 170 Black men would serve in the Alabama legislature during Reconstruction. At least 42 of them were formerly enslaved. You wouldn't see that extent of Black political representation till the late 20th century. They're represented in state and local offices and right up to the highest levels of state government and in Congress. And in Black majority states, African Americans attain high office as senators, as representatives. So this is literally a world turned upside down. turned upside down by Black voters. And given the size of the Black population in most Southern states, all elected officials depended upon the support of newly minted Black voters to keep their jobs.

20:26Kellie Carter Jackson:So they followed the priorities Black voters set. And as with Alexander Curtis, education was at the top of the list.

20:39You know, Du Bois talks about the fact that in the South, public education is the creation of free people. And what he meant by that was that when Black men are able to be elected to state legislatures across the South, one of the first things they do is introduce legislation to create universal public education.

21:00Kellie Carter Jackson:Biracial Reconstruction governments created publicly funded school systems in every state in the South. For the first time, everyone had a chance to go to school. And so it was a model. It was a model for a democratic society, right? It was a model for saying that we're going to not just give lip service to inclusion, but we're really going to practice it. Because again, many of these legislators had been formally enslaved and they understood the value of literacy and they wanted to ensure that every child, not just Black children, but poor white children across the South, had the opportunity to become literate.

21:41Kellie Carter Jackson:The impact was substantial. Within a decade of the Civil War, half of all the children in South Carolina, Florida and Mississippi were enrolled in schools. Across the country from 1870 to 1880, Black illiteracy rates fell by nearly 10 percent. White illiteracy rates went down by about 2 percent. This remarkable change in American life was due to schools like the one that Marion Nine helped build. But of course, the story does not end there. There was widespread opposition to Black education. There was widespread opposition in the sense that it appeared that it would upset the racial status quo.

22:31Kellie Carter Jackson:I'm wondering if you could read this quote. Sure. And then share with us your thoughts on it. Sure. This is from W.E.B. Du Bois' classic study, The Souls of Black Folk, where he said, quote, for the South believed an educated Negro to be a dangerous Negro. And the South was not wholly wrong, for education among all kinds of men always has had and always will have an element of danger and revolution, of dissatisfaction and discontent. Dr. Jelani Favors is a professor at North Carolina A &T. He wrote a book on Black higher education called Shelter in the Time of Storm. It's rooted in that quote from Du Bois, one of the greatest scholars and writers of the 20th century.

23:14When Du Bois is talking about this idea of discontent, of dissatisfaction, these are some of the same concerns that white slave owners had when they banned education during the Hanson-Battle on Michelin era. That was not a coincidence. Yeah, it was not a coincidence, right? And so they knew and realized that, you know, if you begin to educate these folks, that they're going to begin to raise questions. They're going to begin to expand their horizons.

24:12Transcription by CastingWords crime podcast. However you choose to listen, Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. All in one easy app with plans now starting at$8.99, you'll get access to over 1 million audiobooks and podcasts, including trending bestsellers, the hottest new releases, and exclusive podcasts you won't find anywhere else. Sign up now to become a member and get any audiobook every month, plus exclusive podcasts. Plans now start at$8.99. Audible. Be fascinated. Be fascinating.

24:50We are in uncharted territory. Staff writer Evan Osnos on the New Yorker Radio Hour. I think all of us right now are trying to make sense of an avalanche of news every day. And there aren't very many places where you can go and understand how something looks in the grand scope of history and context. That's what I come to The New Yorker for. I'm David Remnick, and each week my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world, and I hope you'll join us for The New Yorker Radio Hour. So we've heard how Alabama State got its start, and how it was an emblem of this incredible drive for education among freed Black people in the South.

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25:31Still, Alexander Curtis and his allies in the state legislature grew the school gradually. In the early days, they offered only basic literacy classes, teaching the alphabet to children and adults alike. But nobody wanted to stop there, so the school gradually added higher-level classes, things like Latin and philosophy. By 1873, Alexander was part of a group of lawmakers who wanted the school to become a proper college. They declared in one group statement, the fact can no longer be evaded nor ignored. If the colored people of the state have their just educational rights, they must have a university for higher instruction.

26:14Around 3 ,000 schools popped up during Reconstruction. Some, including Alabama State, would become historically black colleges and universities. Schools like the Fisk Free Colored School, Howard University, the Hampton Normal and Agricultural Institute, they all started during Reconstruction, all offering the promise of education to newly freed people. Here's Kelly Carter Jackson again.

26:42Kellie Carter Jackson:In June of 1880, Alabama State held its first graduation exercises. By that point, the school had been open for over a decade, and the Marion Nine had handed control over to the state. It was an effort to get more funding. And the graduating class of 1880 included one of Alexander Curtis and Princess Webb's daughters, a beautiful young woman named Henrietta. I think they would have been proud to see their daughter get a diploma from the school that Alexander helped build. And perhaps also, they would have been proud to see how she defended that school. when violent opposition came to Marion not long after her graduation.

27:29Here we are in 1886, December. Cadets from Howard College was walking down the sidewalk and a Black student from Lincoln was walking on the same sidewalk.

27:41Kellie Carter Jackson:A student named Daniel Brown, who was with another Black classmate. Howard was a white college in town. Lincoln, remember, was the early name for Alabama State. Black students have been taught to cross the street in these situations to avoid any interaction with white people. But this time, Mr. Daniel Brown decided to, he wasn't going to get off the sidewalk and a confrontation occurs. A black newspaper reported that around 50 cadets from the white school threatened to kill Daniel. He pulled out a knife and he cut two of them, one under the chin and the other on the hand. And then he fled with the cadets in pursuit to the house of one Henrietta Curtis.

28:28And she came out and held the mob at bay with a.45 pistol and threatened to shoot their brains out.

28:39And this allowed the young student to escape and be relocated in Chicago. But it also led to a demand to remove the Black institution from Marion.

28:55Kellie Carter Jackson:Henrietta Curtis saved Daniel's life. But the incident gave the white community in Marion an excuse to push the Black school out of town. So they forced Alabama State out of Marion, burned the campus. So this is this is so incredible to me, because when I think about a lot of HBCUs that start in one place, get burned down, there's mob attacks. I mean, this happens to Morehouse. Morehouse was in Augusta, Georgia, and it gets moved to Atlanta and actually put on top of a hill for protective purposes because of the mob. They put Spelman next to Morehouse for protection because the mob was constantly threatening black institutions.

29:44Kellie Carter Jackson:And to me, it's always mind boggling when people are negative about HBCUs or when they think, oh, they're broke or they're poor, they're this or that. And the fact that they still have managed to survive. It gives me pride to know that against irreparable odds, those nine Black men with the aid of Black women seceded and started this school and sent it survive and go through tremendous turmoil. Alabama State left Marion and settled in Montgomery, where it's still located today. I got a chance to visit the campus in the spring during tornado season. There was a warning earlier that day, so the campus was closed and quiet.

30:37Kellie Carter Jackson:The buildings, though, were stately, colonial style, with lots of pillars and brick facades. Uh, where is it? Alexander Curtis. Joseph was my tour guide, pointing out all of the historical markers. Wow, Alexander Curtis again here too. There you go. So he served multiple... The Senate. Since 1872 to... Died since 1978 in a buggy accident. In a buggy accident? Yes. No! It's a crazy tragedy. Alexander died at just 49 years old. History is written all over Alabama State's campus. In addition to Reconstruction, there are tons of markers dedicated to the civil rights movement. The school was tied up in it.

31:25Kellie Carter Jackson:Take Joanne Robinson, for instance. She was an English professor at Alabama State in the 1950s, and she was also the unsung organizer of the Montgomery Bus Boycott. In fact, she was the one who put forward her new charismatic pastor, Martin Luther King Jr., as a leader for the movement. I'll let you read that. The birth of Montgomery Bus Boycott. On December 1st, 1955, at Alabama State College, now Alabama State University, in a basement room in Council Hall, the Montgomery Bus Boycott was planned and publicized after the arrest that day of Rosa Parks, who refused to give up her seat to a white person on a segregated city bus.

32:09Kellie Carter Jackson:Following Park's arrest, Alabama State College took action. Joanne Robinson, a faculty member, authored the text of a flyer calling for blacks to boycott segregated city buses and joined others, responded to Park's arrest by mimeogramming thousands of flyers, here calling for a one-day boycott of the buses to start the following Monday, December 5th. It's not a coincidence that a school founded during Reconstruction with the goal to actually practice democracy continued to push for its perfection into the 20th century. This was the seminal birth of the modern America civil rights movement. This connection came up when I spoke to Jelani Favors.

32:50Kellie Carter Jackson:He writes about something he calls the second curriculum that emerged at schools like Alabama State as they faced opposition to the democratic ideals upon which they were founded. As he dug into the history and evolution of HBCUs, he found a recurring theme.

33:31were being denied to Black folks on a daily basis.

33:33Kellie Carter Jackson:Daily. On a daily basis, right? Violently so. And so, but within these spaces, students were being encouraged to think about why democracy and citizenship were worth investing into and pouring into and rehabilitating and saving. This was the case during the Civil Rights Movement. And this was the case during Reconstruction, as the country struggled against itself. And again, going back to Du Bois' quote, right? education always has had, planted these seeds of discontent. And so, yeah, I mean, when you examine what's going on during the Reconstruction period, it's a very turbulent moment, but it's also a moment that provides these kernels of hope about what the future could possibly hold.

34:21The Greek historian Thucydides was asked this question about whether history repeats itself. And he said, no, history does not repeat itself. But human nature is constant. Now, he's saying that our nature, since we've been on this earth, has not changed. And the same mistake that our grandparents or their grandparents made would continue to do. So the people that support Jim Crow supports the anti-DEI today. It just goes that way. it gives the appearance that history is repeating itself, but it's the nature of man itself that's continuous.

35:04Kellie Carter Jackson:Yeah, it's not being repeated. It's being passed down. Passed down. It's being passed down. Yeah, that's the sin of these. But it does give the impression that it is repeating itself, but it's us repeating ourselves.

35:28Right now, we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, Tim Waltz, Ketanji Brown-Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Charlemagne Tha God, and so many more. That's all on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts. On the Broadside, we take you into the heart of the South with stories that'll surprise you. Bigfoot apparently loves glow sticks.

36:06He likes to party, I guess. Exactly, he's a raver. And topics that dig into the muddy margins of history. Right, the good, the bad, the ugly. It's not clean at all. It's so messy. Wait a second, this is actually real. Listen to The Broadside, one story every week, exploring the rich traditions of the South. you

From the publisher

Alabama State University is one of America's earliest historically Black colleges. Historian Kellie Carter Jackson shares the institution’s hidden origins. Founded during Reconstruction by nine formerly enslaved men, the story reveals a fierce struggle over education — a battle that unfolded at the very moment Black Americans were gaining political power for the first time.

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