Balance Is Bullsh*t: Cut Your Life From 25 Things to 5 with Loretta Soffe

0:00This is Retail in America, and I'm Ron Thurston. For two seasons, this show has been about the people, the stores, the technology solutions, and the operators reshaping how America shops. This season is sharper. It's about the human edge of selling and what it actually takes to win a customer in a world where algorithms handle the easy part, AI agents handle the decisions, and the only thing left worth paying a premium for is a human who actually knows how to sell. Every guest this season has built something, run something, or figured something out about how to do that. So let's get into it because today my guest is Loretta Sov and I want to start with an image of a driveway.

0:48Picture a woman pulling into it, designer outfit, beautiful house, a husband who paused his own career so the kids could thrive. The job title, the front row at Fashion Week, everything in the picture may seem perfect, but she can't get out of the car because she's completely and quietly exhausted. That woman was Loretta, 25 years climbing Nordstrom from the sales floor to the executive vice president of a$2 billion division right up until she was fired at the peak. What she figured out in that driveway became a book called Balance is Bullshit and a second act. Today, she works with companies on a problem most of them are quietly bleeding money on.

1:36They lose their most capable people, not because they fail, but because they burn out running a race against standards that were never theirs. Her argument to CHROs and L &D leaders is that this is a business problem, not a wellness one, and that the fix isn't balanced. It's actually alignment. So Loretta, welcome to Retail in America.

2:01Loretta Soffe:Thank you so much, Ron. I'm so thrilled to have this conversation. It's overdue and I think really timely with what's going on, not just in the industry, but with women and I would argue some men as well. So I'm excited to get into it. Thank you. And you and I have known each other for several years. We had friends in common who said that we needed to meet. I think we agreed it was probably 2021. So you're right. This is long overdue. So take us back to that driveway, Loretta. Tell us what was going through your mind. Why couldn't you get out of the car? You know, people that have had moments where they felt like they were frozen.

2:42What were you afraid of in that moment?

2:44Loretta Soffe:You know, I remember pulling into my driveway, gripping the steering wheel with both hands, probably had kicked off my Jimmy Choo's in the driver's seat, looking in at my husband who had willingly paused his legal career for what we thought was one year and quickly became 12 years. three kids happy healthy thriving i had the big title the beautiful corner office as you mentioned flights all over the country even on the world even all over the world on the private plane sitting front row and on the outside it looked like i had it all i had this perfect beautiful white house i couldn't get out of the car because yes i was exhausted and i was also calculating Sam's sacrifice.

3:36Loretta Soffe:How long is he or are we going to do this? How long am I going to miss dinner with the three kids and come in after the fact and do the cleanup? And I thought to myself in that moment, I'm straddling these two identities, this high-powered executive and this mom that wants to be with the kids, but more importantly, the kids deserve a mom that isn't exhausted. So it wasn't what should I do? It's how do I keep doing something that I knew at that moment was unsustainable? And it was, I can't get out of the car because I don't know what seat I should stay in. Should I stay in that executive seat? Should I take on a seat as a mom?

4:22Loretta Soffe:And how can I possibly keep this up and do both? And as you've built more of a business speaking and speaking with women particularly, where often is their mindset? Because I love this quote from you of like that it looks like they're fine on the outside, but they're crackling underneath. And when you speak to women, what's the themes that you hear? It's pretty consistent. There's a couple things. They justify the exhaustion. They put it off to, it's just this quarter. It's just this board meeting. It's just this product launch or store opening. And they justify the exhaustion as kind of the greens fees of doing the job.

5:10Loretta Soffe:And it's interesting because it's almost like what got them to the place they are in their career is what prevents them from seeing that they're drowning. So it's this hard work. It's the ability to take on more, to say yes, to push through that discomfort. And it's because of that that they actually don't see the signs and the data that they're crumbling. So I'd say where it starts with most of the women that I work with, it starts in their head, on those drives to and from work, on those airplane flights across the country where they're starting to kind of have this self-talk, which is, I don't know if I can do it again.

5:53Loretta Soffe:I don't know if I can go through this market. I don't know if I can go through this season. How am I ever going to get through this board meeting? they start to have that little bit of self-talk in their head and then it transfers into I'll miss that dinner with the kids I'll miss that presentation at the school I've got a meeting I've got to prepare we've got like an emergency you know situation with you know something so it kind of starts in the head it goes to the home and then before you know it unfortunately and unintentionally, sometimes it starts to show up at work where they're slipping.

6:31Loretta Soffe:They're a little distracted. They're exhausted. They just don't feel like themselves. So that external presentation of perfection, which is imposed externally, is what starts to kind of break them down. Fascinating. And your situation maybe in some ways is unique because your choice to to create change wasn't yours. Correct. As of as after 25 years, award winning, somewhat of the golden girl in the company in the industry, I was fired by Pete Nordstrom, who I worked for. And it was a decision that was made by the family, the Nordstrom family and the executive team, where, you know, sometimes result the results.

7:23Loretta Soffe:And even if you as the as the leader think they're good enough. Oftentimes they aren't good enough. So that decision was imposed upon me and I was asked recently, had you not been fired, would you have quit? And it really stopped me in my tracks because the honest truth is probably not. And it's as unsustainable as I think the pace was and the balancing act I was trying to perform, I had the golden handcuffs. When you've got all the benefits, you've got a beautiful big office, you've got the title, you've got access, you've got a huge salary, bonus, benefits, and a husband who has not worked in 12 years, you're kind of handcuffed to the financial equation and you don't necessarily imagine or even want to think about what's next.

8:23Loretta Soffe:So I'd say that while that decision was imposed upon me and it was the worst thing that could have ever happened in that moment, it turned out to be the best thing that could have ever happened. I'll definitely want to get into that when we get further along. And so let, because you would likely have also never written a book. You would have never done this work. At first, you wouldn't have had time because you would, as, as a fellow author, I know the time and commitment it takes to do that work, but the, um, you would never have written this book and this would not have been your platform and you would not have the ability to create change.

9:05yes exactly uh i remember so vividly the the conversation in pete's office that day it was a

9:15Loretta Soffe:tuesday in january i'll never forget it i literally can remember what i was wearing and the chill i still get describing and recalling that moment is something when when you're on the end of on the other end of something that you had nothing to do with. There is a bit of a PTSD moment for moments for quite a while. But I'll tell you, it was that walk out of my office, out of that building, out of that sixth floor executive hallway, which I've never been back to since, walking out of that building, which is all I really knew for 25 years post-college, getting back into my car and I sat at that same steering wheel and I thought everything I have been trying to keep up in the air, all the plates spinning, all the balls juggling as a mom, a wife, a daughter, a friend, a community member, a leader of a huge business.

10:22Loretta Soffe:It's bullshit. I can't keep it going. And I remember driving home, looking out our kitchen window thinking, wow, it's like someone washed the windows. I can see clearly and no mistakes. It wasn't immediate. I definitely had some crisis and PTSD to deal with. Like, what did I do wrong? How did this happen? why did this happen but over time when I was able to kind of sit without a calendar full of meetings and phone calls and and things to to review and do I was able to kind of get quiet with myself and understand that doing more was impossible continuing to do what I was doing was impossible and there's got to be a different way.

11:18Loretta Soffe:And that kind of clarity was the first step in where we are today to getting clear about what do I want to do? I hadn't even had the time to ask myself. I'd been almost programmed like a robot to just get up, go through the day. If I was lucky, swim before I went to the office, run into the office. And you know, you're on meetings every hour on the hour, making decisions, helping your people, trying to move the business forward. And then you switch gears and then your real job starts. If you're a mom of three kids, no matter who's helping you, and you turn around and you do that until you collapse, you fall in bed and you get up and do it again.

12:06Loretta Soffe:And so I had never really had that time to sit quietly and ask myself, what do I really want this next, you know, self-unimposed chapter to be like? And your advocacy through the book and your speaking isn't that women shouldn't strive to have the big roles. It isn't that they shouldn't think about their careers. You're not saying that. You're saying we have to reexamine how to realign your life in a way where you're not sitting in the car, in the driveway, exhausted and probably much deeper health issues that come along with that kind of a life as we get older. So tell us more about that because you're not advocating that women quit their job tomorrow.

12:56Loretta Soffe:No, not at all. In fact, I think what you said is re-evaluating what they want it to look like. But I think if we back up, it's yes, you can have an incredible career, whether that's a C-suite role or something else. no matter what, you can have a great job, a fulfilling, purposeful job, and a wholehearted life, marriage, motherhood, whatever that looks like for you. You can have all that, but that's going to require two things or multiple things. Number one, that's going to require you acknowledging and letting go of a standard of success that is unrealistic. For whatever reason, society has imposed this notion and view of success that's unrealistic.

13:54Loretta Soffe:And I think it's done women in particular, a huge disservice. So that's the first thing. And that's really what I'm calling out that this whole notion of work life balance is bullshit. I'm a big believer in go all in on your work when you need to. If you have a board meeting, a project, a product launch, a store opening, a market week, go 150 % in on that. Give it your all with the confidence that the rest of your life is going to be sustained and move along. For me as a mom, what that meant was two or three weeks of market weeks in a February or September timeframe. My husband knew it. My kids were little, but as they got older, they knew that I was going to be pretty preoccupied and traveling for three weeks, maybe not three weeks straight, but I was, I was going to be busy, not super available.

14:54Loretta Soffe:After those, for after those three weeks, I could essentially turn off my phone back in the day and engage with them for a three or four long day, three or four day weekend or a family vacation. And then I would go all in on that. that's what it's all about. It's not trying to do all things all the time at once, because what that will give you is two things, burnout or mediocrity. And I see that often where I would have employees, you know, they're in a meeting looking at a new product line for a new season and their phone's blowing up because the babysitter's asking all different questions or the kid is asking questions.

15:40Loretta Soffe:It's arm those caregivers or your children with the ability to make decisions and to be self-sufficient and trust them to do just that so that you can be 100 % present where you are in that moment. Right. It does feel like what you're describing, Loretta, is such a learned skill. And you had mentioned you had just spoken to a large audience of very young women. I often speak on college campuses and speak to young people. And for whatever reason, work-life balance is this phrase that I think someone has said to them that, oh, I want work-life balance. And my first response, I'm curious yours, is like, well, what does that mean to you?

16:28And I don't know that they have the answer to that question because what you're describing, you learned how to do over time. You navigated your life, but it's how much of it is learned and how much of it can be read in books like yours?

16:44Loretta Soffe:You know, I think it can be, I think it is learned. I think it requires clarity about what is actually important to the individual. and with that clarity typically comes a confidence and a courage to say yes and no. And I think young people today are so much more curious than we were. I had a meeting yesterday with a young man who was asking so many questions that were so thoughtful and mature and I thought, you know what, you are well on your way. And we talked a little bit about that and I asked him, what is work life or what does school and life look like for you during the school year? And what does it look like for you in the summer?

17:34Loretta Soffe:And he had some pretty mature answers. I think it's the learned and saying yes and no to things is going to be really helpful. In my book, I talk a lot about what it takes and what needs to be in place. You know, we'd all be naive to say that you don't need a strong support system. You do. Whether you're a 20-year-old, a 4-year-old, or a 60-year-old, you need a strong support system, whether that's for child care, whether that's for accountability, whether that's for running a big business, whether that's as an entrepreneur, you have to have things in place. And that doesn't mean you have to be wealthy to have those things in place.

18:28Loretta Soffe:It could be that what you have in place is a view of what success looks like for you and the courage and confidence to say yes and no to things and have boundaries. Courage and confidence. Yeah. So such good words too. And you just connected a dot for me when you say support system. The support system is also your network. You know, this kind of networking term that we use that people have such an aversion to, networking. You're building a support system. You're building, you and I both have had successful books because we had a professional support system around us and people that are here to support us.

19:13They're not helping us in day-to-day life, but I would consider the followings of shows like this and others. This is a support system for people.

19:24Loretta Soffe:Yeah, you know, your network is your net worth. your network isn't the people you're just dialing because you might need something somewhat insignificant or whatever your network is people like you that you can call and have an honest conversation and get advice and and learn from the path that they've taken that you might be on or exploring um but i also would say like with that conversation i had with that young man yesterday, I feel like network and mentors can be kind of interchangeable. And I said to him, you know, your mentors are everywhere. And just like I was mentoring him as a high school senior, he's also mentoring me because he's challenging me with a set of questions.

20:15Loretta Soffe:I haven't even thought about it in a long time. So I think that it's that support system becomes the network, also becomes the mentor kind of circle that is in giving you receive. It's just, it's kind of, it's an iterative kind of circle that is just, I think, so important in business, but in life. Absolutely agreed. And we assign a lot of weight to identifying someone as mentor. but in fact what you're describing you're being mentored through your support network without identifying it or using that word yeah i i agree with you i think we're it's not as linear i think as people want to make it as such that these are my mentors this is my network this is my family this is my friends you know surround yourself with smart interesting engaging people who provide different things at different times.

21:20Yeah.

21:20Loretta Soffe:And I think I'll bump this to a little bit of the human side of business. And I think that this concept of mentoring and shadowing and just like tying ropes within organizations is like a lost art. And I think that there's been such a de-emphasis on the human, the human edge, the human factor, the human value within a business that there's such a business case for. I would have to believe that, you know, the statistic where one out of two people are considering leaving their job, I would say primarily because they're either not physically with their counterparts and or direct reports, but there's not this sense of support system, camaraderie, culture, trust, like group mentality.

22:25Loretta Soffe:And I think that this is going to be such a negative impact to businesses that they're just really underestimating right now. Yeah, I would absolutely agree. It's so challenging to not be in those work environments around team members, because if you're working remote in your home, you're deep into your phone and social media, whatever habits you have, they're lifting your head up and being human to human. That's why I'm such a, you and I both, frontline brick and mortar retail advocate. This is very much the future because we need it. As humans, we need it. It's a really interesting moment. And I think the next couple of years will be fascinating, the speed at which things are moving.

23:12Loretta Soffe:Well, what's so interesting, I was listening to an Arthur Brooks podcast on happiness and job satisfaction and employee mentality and health, mental health. Burnout is at an all-time high since going remote. And he, as a professor and expert on the human behavior and condition and happiness, has a thesis that there's a direct correlation to people being isolated to being burned out. And it's a couple things. They don't ever have a start stop. They're not with their counterparts. They don't really know where they stand with their employer, who they report to. And the businesses are suffering as well because customers, that's where they start to create a loyalty to a brand.

24:14Loretta Soffe:and a trust is when they can physically interact with a person. Yeah. Agreed. Arthur Brooks is fascinating. I saw him give a TEDx here in Miami last year, and his insights are really interesting. I would highly recommend it. I know. It's so interesting. So interesting. I want to take just a step deeper into the book because you've built a framework, and you talk about the self-architect method. So if you can walk us through what that is and then maybe take a deep dive into one of them and be so curious to learn more. Yes, and the genesis of the self-architect method as the solution was really because during the first couple months of my book tour, one of the first questions from both men and women I would get is, okay, Loretta, if balance is bullshit, then what?

25:14Loretta Soffe:And it, it seemed really obvious to me. But for most people, they're like, Okay, yes, I am struggling. I am in a point in my life where I can't keep all these balls in the air, I can't keep juggling. So what do I do? And I think that for well, that that That forced me to come up with this framework that for me was, as you asked before, somewhat learned and then put into practice once I actually had the crises and the moments where I could actually get clear. And so the self-architect method, the philosophy is really around getting rid of us of a externally imposed view of success that doesn't work.

26:04Loretta Soffe:And usually that has come from society, your boss, your mother, an influencer, whatever you grew up thinking this is what it's supposed to look like. so I'm here to say that you know what no you are the only one that can actually design a life that you love that is successful on your terms and the way you do that is through these five steps number one you got to define what is success what does it look like for me and what are the values that I hold really high and important for the long haul then the second one is audit let's take a look at where are you spending your time, your energy, your decisions.

26:51Loretta Soffe:That's what we're going to come back to. The third one is rebuild. And that doesn't mean blowing up your life and starting over. For most of the clients that I work with, and when I'm speaking to large groups, it's make one decision today that you can change. Stop doing, start doing. That's the start of creating the life you love. And then the fourth thing is align. Now let's align and understand that gap between what you identified as success, which is largely your values that you want to live by and how you're spending your time. So now let's put that into practice. Let's make change. And typically that's cutting out a lot of unnecessary stuff.

27:37Loretta Soffe:And then the fifth and kind of the evergreen part of the framework is expand. Once you have that clarity, and you kind of stop shrinking and trying to fit someone else's version of success, you expand with confidence and courage into a life you're building that you love. And it is so remarkable to see this in action. I'll go back to that second step in the five-step process, which is the audit. And a lot of times in a group workshop situation, I'll take people through an exercise called 25 to 5. And most recently, I had a group ages 20 to 65, all women in a room. And I give them a piece of paper and write down 25 things that are kind of on your mind, in your orbit, on your calendar, on your to-do list, however you organize the things that you want to do.

28:41Loretta Soffe:And for a lot of people, it's two or three multiple places. It's the calendar. It's a note in their phone. It's the to-do list. It's some sticky notes. It's the husband or the family Google calendar. I don't care where it comes from. Let's write it down. 25 things. Now, I'm going to ask you to force that down to five. What are the five things that really, really matter? And it is so amazing. And then people go around the room and they share a handful of things that come off. And it is cupcakes for the soccer team, driving carpool for swim team, being a timer at the swim meet, dropping off or collecting team uniforms for last season's lacrosse team.

29:33Loretta Soffe:It's, you know, redoing the picture wall at grandma's beach house. I mean, it is hilarious. And all of those things are valid, but are they aligning with the most important values and things in your life, which, for example, for me, when I left and I was able to get clear were time with my husband, time with my kids, my fitness, my faith, a purpose-filled job, you know, being involved with one kid at a time per season. So it's amazing when you get to that audit, the things that creep in, that force, the things that matter off for a lot of women. Fitness is completely gone. Date nights with their husband, gone, canceled.