Connection Is a Performance Multiplier with Blake Devillier

0:00Ron:This is Retail in America, and I'm Ron Thurston. For two seasons, this show has been about the people, the stores, the technology solutions, and the operators reshaping how America shops. Season three is sharper. It's about the human edge of selling. What it actually takes to win a customer in a world where algorithms handle the easy part, AI agents handle the decisions, and the only thing left worth paying a premium for is a human. who actually knows how to sell. Every guest this season has built something, run something, or figured out something about how to do that. So let's get into it because I'm really excited about this episode.

0:43Ron:My guest today is Blake DeVilliers, 28 years at Gap Inc., five at Gap, 15 at Banana Republic, and eight at Old Navy, finishing as the Territory Vice president for the East and Canada. Then he did something that almost nobody in our industry does. He left fashion entirely for senior vice president of field operations for Taco Bell. 500 company restaurants, 180 franchises, and after that he became the president of Carl's Jr. USA. That's the resume and here's what I want to talk about because for every one of those buildings, it was full of people and a lot of them, it was their first job. As we know, retail is the largest private sector employer in the country.

1:31Ron:It's where the huge number of Americans actually learn how to work and the people running those field organizations set the ceiling on all of it. Now, Blake and I met in Houston. We were both there, well, both, I would say early in our careers. We met about 25 years ago. We were both running stores. And to be honest, we've been in each other's corner ever since supporting. And I'm really excited to have listeners for Retail in America really hear Blake's story because it's a really fascinating one. And he has now spent the last seven months writing down exactly how all of this works. His thesis is that connection is a performance multiplier, measurable, and the reason two teams with the same product and the same payroll get completely different results.

2:26Ron:I also think this is one of the last things on a sales floor that a machine and AI will never be able to do and is absolutely the human edge. So welcome, Blake, to Retail in America. Well, I'm so excited to be here, Ron. This is amazing. Amazing. And I want to kind of, you and I both grew up at The Gap, and I want to start with a number that you probably can give me. So if you think about 28 years in retail, three Gapink brands, 500 restaurants, 180 80 franchises. How many people over the span of your career do you think have actually worked for you? I would have to say in the probably tens of thousands, well, maybe even the hundreds of thousands at this point.

3:15I mean, those organizations were so big. And yeah, I would say in the hundreds of thousands, at least felt hopefully some of my leadership at some point during their tenure with us. Yeah.

3:30Ron:And when you, as I mentioned in the intro, you think about this being an industry, retail and hospitality, where so many people learn how to work and you attach that number. How does that make you feel? I know I have a lot of emotion when I think about the impact that people like you and I, you even more so have had on so many young people in their careers? It's humbling, really and truly. And it's funny because in this age of connectedness, even though we're probably highly disconnected, there are ways that we are more connected today, i.e. social media. And I get to keep up with some of those sales associates who I worked with over the years, mostly when I was in stores, obviously as a store manager.

4:20But to see the lives that they've created for themselves and to think that I might have had a little bit of impact on how they approach their careers or their lives today is super, super humbling for me.

4:34Ron:Yeah, I feel the same way. I often would think about my leadership with young people and just say, what are they going home and telling their parents? Because you know that their dad's going to say, well, how was work today, Blake? Like, how was Ron? How's your boss? Like, what does he do? I know their parents were asking questions about me. And I wanted them to be able to say that I had a positive influence on how they learned how to work. And I know you did too. Yeah. And it's funny because I know those conversations were happening. And oftentimes times they were probably saying that guy, he's crazy.

5:14Only because I had exceptionally high expectations and standards. But I always try to balance that with a sense of humor and a sense of humanity for our employees. And it's been super gratifying now. You know, I've got folks that I'm in contact with that I would have worked with 25 years ago and sort of say to me, oh, I get it now. I get you now. I get why you were such a driver and why your expectations were so high. And so that's super exciting.

5:52Ron:Super exciting. I want to think for a moment about maybe what's similar. So you think about Gap, Banana, Old Navy, Taco Bell, Carl's Jr. your what's what's more the same than different of all that we talk about the front line in very general terms but from your point of view being on multiple sides of this business what's what's the same and what's different yeah i mean it's a great question i would say um you know across the gap ink brands it it felt very um the culture felt very similar whether i was with gap banana Republic or Old Navy. You could feel that there was this sort of red thread that you could attach to Gap Inc.

6:36culturally in each of the brands. What each of the brands that were required from a leadership competency standpoint was a bit different. Banana Republic required a higher level of customer focus because the customer had a higher expectation based on what they were paying for and who else they were shopping with as a part of their shopping journey. Old Navy customers still wanted good service, but given the volume of units that Old Navy stores received through the back door and sold through the front, there was an intensity around operational execution that looked very different than my time at Gap and Banana Republic.

7:23moving into the food industry actually was less of a change than I think I anticipated it would be. Now, I'd imagine on the front line, it would feel quite different selling jeans and T-shirts versus making tacos or hamburgers. But but in this sort of executive leadership ranks, the jobs were very, very similar. that the biggest difference was your product in retail couldn't necessarily hurt a customer. I used to say that while buying a bad t-shirt might kill your fashion credibility, it won't kill you like a bad food product will. That was definitely the food safety aspect was definitely a different element that I had to learn.

8:13And here's the other thing. People are very emotional about their clothes, but they are even more emotional about their food. And so there definitely is sort of a heightened kind of awareness of that when you're in the food industry. I would say the thing that united them all is that every person who works with you and for you in the organization all really desires the same thing. And that is to know that they matter to you, their immediate boss, to their coworkers. And I think when people genuinely feel that you authentically care about them and appreciate the fact that they are there, they will absolutely go to the moon for you and for the company.

9:03Yeah. Yeah.

9:06Ron:And why, in your point of view, does that feel often like such a stretch? Like their leaders feel like there's this sense that people really care because it sounds simple, but you and I both know that that's not actually the case in many ways. I think there are just so many expectations that retail leaders in particularly have to deliver on. And they work in a very dynamic environment that can be, at least from a business standpoint, quite inconsistent. consistent meaning the business you do on a Monday could be a third of what you do on Saturday the business you do in holy week the week before Easter will look very different than the business you do in the weeks the six weeks leading up to and the six weeks coming out of that peak and so I think that there is a lot of it's a very dynamic environment that people have to operate in and I think that, you know, they forget at times that the priority here is providing an amazing experience for your internal customer so that they in turn will provide an amazing experience for your external customer, which ultimately puts money in the cash register, which is really what we're all chasing after day in and day in.

10:37Ron:Regardless of what you're selling. No, it's true. Yeah, it's really true. And so I want to go deeper on that because the industry, and I guess I'm thinking more retail than food, has really, like the workload has really changed. like the emphasis on technology, things like buy in line, pick up in store. I remember when you and I were spending a lot of time on calls during COVID, you were running Old Davy. I was running a much smaller business at Intramix. But the idea here of like, how do we need to evolve? What do we need to add? How do we do things like buy in line, pick up in store? Like the pressure on frontline leaders has really changed.

11:20Ron:And I would say if anything, the job has gotten harder. Yeah. Like, how do you feel about that? Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I can remember when I started with The Gap, I was 21. I thought I'd worked for six weeks. I needed a summer job only, I thought. And I ended up staying a whole lot longer than that. But even from a metric standpoint, I can remember that what we used to really, our leaders used to focus us on was units per transaction and average transaction. And UPT was sort of the headline and an average transaction sort of sat right beneath it. But then I think about retail today and even sales associates or brand associates today.

12:07Those metrics still exist along with conversion, along with sales over traffic, along with selling a credit card, along with selling a rewards program, along with fulfilling BOPUS and ship from store. And so the expectations have certainly risen. But what I don't think most companies and leaders do well is help to narrow focus for their teams on the critical few versus the important many. And I do think that when you look at stores that consistently outperform others, they're likely led by someone who is a great filter and who understands the ebb and the flow of the business and the ebb and the flow of priorities and how the business is actually driven.

12:58they do an exceptional job at sort of understanding that and then leading their people in a way where they feel it's all palatable and doable, regardless of how big the list might actually be. Right.

13:15Ron:And what an exceptional leadership skill to have that ability. I think that's where this head of store role becomes so critical. You are the actual mediator of everything, all of that you're describing from corporate headquarters to everything that you're hearing from the field. You are that person. You and I have both been that person who has to then prioritize and communicate and think about how to actually, how will all of this work get done? What do we need to do differently? It's a fascinating role. It really is. I mean, it's part strategist. It's part people leader. It's quite honestly, it's part bodyguard.

13:59I think, you know, the head of stores is really the chief sort of protector of the field. And they're the person who sits at the table with the rest of the executives where decisions are being made that will ultimately impact the experience in stores for the employees. And as we said earlier, that experience will have a direct cause around how the customer, the external customers actually interacted with and the care that the associate has, the energy to give or not based on what's happening around them. So it's an extremely important role. But I would even say beyond that, doesn't matter the level that you are in the organization.

14:50Every leader, every manager has the capacity to be that filter for their teams and to understand, you know, how to prioritize in a way that gets it all done, even when it feels like it's insurmountable.

15:06Ron:And how is that different in food service? Is it different at all? It is to a degree. I would say the head of store role is very, very similar. Like not a lot of differences. One of the unique differences in the food, at least the fast food business, the quick service restaurant business that I experienced is one advantage that it has that retail doesn't have is there is a significant level of consistency in how the business transacts. in a fast food establishment. And what I mean by that is the difference between the business on a Monday or a Saturday, there may be a 30 % difference. Where in a retail store, you could do three times the business on Saturday that you do on a Monday.

15:58And the same is true for the weeks of the year. Typically in a fast food business, the volume grows very, very slowly week over week. And it's also true that there's probably no week in a QSR establishment that is more than 30 % higher than the lowest volume week of the year. So that level of consistency in how the business is done in comparison to retail, I think provides an advantage in the industry that folks who are in the industry don't even necessarily recognize because they don't know any different. And so that is definitely a key difference. The second sort of difference that I noticed that was pretty significant between the two industries is while there are an unending amount of tasks that have to be done to deliver, to sort of take a customer's order, make the order, take their money, give them their order, there are less different things that people have to do in a fast food restaurant versus a retail store.

17:13The reality is, is they do the things that might be a smaller list of things that have to be done. They just have to do those things more times in a day. And so there's also value there in creating sort of experts at their jobs. I would say it's not easy, but I would say it's easier in the fast food industry to create experts than it might be in retail. Because retail, there are just so many other facets of the job that folks have to be good at. Right.

17:50Ron:The workload is significantly different by day, depending if you talk about loss prevention, visual merchandising, store ops, everything could go sideways at any given moment. True. Yeah. Yeah. Which is different. And would you say it's a kind of like QSR is a great learning ground for retail? You did it the opposite. You took your incredible retail background to run QSR, but how would you think the reverse? Yeah, I actually think it absolutely could be. And I mean, QSR, probably even more so than retail, is the place that more people have their first jobs. And so I think there are, I met incredible people in QSR.

18:37And, you know, having worked at Gap, Inc., one of the things that always impressed me, and I thought when I left, I might never experience again is the amount of loyalty and tenure that is found in Gap Inc. It's tremendous. But when I went into QSR, I went to Taco Bell first and then Carl's Jr., the tenure and loyalty was even greater in that industry, which sort of blew me away because I kind of thought I was like best in class when I was at Gap Inc. And it probably is best in class. But what I experienced at both Taco Bell and and Carl's blew me away. So I say all of that just to say that I encountered amazing people in my in my journeys across the country in both of those roles.

19:29And I and I think we should absolutely consider in retail people who have worked in QSR, we should recruit those folks because they definitely exhibit amazing skills. And conversely, I would say to QSR establishments, the business is not that different. And finding yourself an amazing retail leader to come in and work in your organization could be a game changer in terms of what they can bring to the table in terms of their own skills and experience.

20:03Ron:Amazing. Yeah. And that's really why I wanted to ask you that, because there does seem to be a bit of a wall between the businesses of like, you couldn't do this if you did that. And I agree with you, like great, great abilities to connect, great people who can operate and just think about business at scale can do that anywhere. Yeah, and one interesting reality that I observed in leaving Gap Inc and then working for these other two amazing brands was that in organizations that have a great deal of tenure, and I would say this about Gap Inc, and I would say this about Taco Bell and Carl's Jr., there is this perception that folks have that the business challenges they're encountering are unique just to them.

20:59And to bring somebody in from the outside would not necessarily be the best thing because what the brands are experiencing is just so unique and special to them. And what I learned is that, yes, each of those brands is a very unique and special in its own way. But the business problems that each business was trying to solve were exactly the same. And so I think that there sometimes needs to be more open-mindedness about welcoming people in from other industries into the brand. Because again, the business problems are the same. How do you communicate, right? From an operational standpoint, this was something that was absolutely consistent.

21:55How do you communicate in a way all the way down to the associate level the most important things that they need to be aware of and how do you get it to stick? How do you safeguard execution as a DM, a regional director, a VP, a head of stores? How do you safeguard execution across all of your distributed units so that a customer in Duluth experiences the brand the same way that a customer will in Orlando, Florida? That is universal. Technology. Technology is pervasive. And I think retail in general is probably a little bit more ahead of the, not ahead of the curve, but just ahead of what I experienced in QSR.

22:39But all of the challenges that retail faces in having their frontline associates, their store teams adopt technology, same thing happening in QSR. So I think there just needs to be, there are uniquenesses in every brand and there are unique business challenges that every brand encounters. But the big problems that everybody's working to solve are mostly the same, regardless of the brand and regardless of the industry.

23:09Ron:I love that. I love that because for so many reasons. And think about the skills, the unique skills that you brought to QSR coming out of retail that maybe other former leaders on the executive team didn't have. I just think it's a fascinating business all around and all of it. And you're right, we are more similar than different in a lot of ways. Which really, I want to jump into the kind of point of the season of Retail America around the human edge. Because you talk a lot about connecting. You talk about your superpower is connecting the CEO and the board member and the frontline associates and everyone in between.

23:56Ron:I know that to be true of you. But it's so rare. And so how do you think about teaching that? What's teachable? What's not teachable? Like, just talk to us more about connection and this kind of your research and experience on this. Yeah. So you teased it earlier. I've been writing for the last six or seven months a speech, and I'll be starting a book very soon. In fact, you've given me some amazing advice already. So the ball is rolling there. The topic of my work is connection is a performance multiplier. And I say that confidently based on my own experience and my own career and what I've been able to achieve.

24:48And I also say it confidently because of what I have observed over the course of my career exists behaviorally in people who have a high level of success. One of the things that I've discovered is in defining connection, there are two very distinct things that have to exist in order to achieve genuine connection with a person. They are psychological safety and interpersonal alignment. And psychological safety, we hear, that's a term we hear often. At the end of the day, what it means is I feel safe with you. I feel safe to be myself, to ask maybe what could be perceived as a dumb question. And I also feel safe making mistakes and not feeling like I'm going to be punished for making those mistakes as I learn.

25:48So again, do I feel safe with you? A big key of establishing a genuine connection with someone. And the second is interpersonal alignment. And that's kind of the fancy way of saying that I'm clear on where we are headed together. So there's great clarity on what the goals are. There's clarity on how we're going to get there. And I feel and know that the people around me want me and want the team to succeed. And so it's the intersection of those two things that really creates genuine connection between two individuals. Yeah. And then from that, how do you define it becoming a performance multiplier?

26:37Ron:In your mind, what does that mean? Yeah, well, I can tell you that research certainly backs that teams that are incredibly engaged deliver more consistent and strong results over time. And then teams that are highly engaged, when you look at engagement sort of indices, right, that all the questions that are asked when you take an engagement survey, like all the behaviors that are assessed, most of the behaviors that lead to strong employee engagement are connection-based. I feel like my supervisor understands me. I work on a team that respects the work that I do. Like things, questions like that, behaviors like that, very sort of connection-based feed into and create the conditions where engagement is maximized, which then in turn multiplies financial performance, et cetera.

27:43And so the research sort of proves that makes the business case for it and also finds that teams that feel more connected are more engaged, deliver higher profitability, higher customer satisfaction, higher customer loyalty.

28:06Ron:And would you, would you say those, when those pillars are in place, there's also this kind of aspiration to grow their career inside the brand? Because I'm thinking about you running old Navy and the thousand tens of thousands of people that brand hired promoted, think of QSR. I mean, we're talking hiring and promoting and building leadership bench at massive scale. And so with those two things are in place, do you find the desire to move their career forward grows? Yeah, I often used to say to leaders, marketers create demand for product and field operators create desire for career growth. And the way that they create that desire is by connecting with their teams in a meaningful way and demonstrating in their words and their actions how fun and rewarding a career in retail can be.

29:11And I don't think that a leader can do that if they aren't first happy in the role and if they can't connect in a way that establishes trust between themselves and their teams. And one of the amazing things about both of the industries I've worked in is how many amazing careers are started on the sales floor. As I started with, I intended to be at the Gap for six weeks. But when I got there, a couple of things happened. One, I fell in love with selling. I just thought it was so fun. I happen to also work in a tourist location, which selling is a bit easier. I learned that later in life. But I was in this amazing environment where customers had extra money to spend.