Nobody Buys Software Off a Demo: How Deals Actually Start — with Eric Aubertin, TrueLynk

0:00This is Retail in America, and I'm Ron Thurston. For two seasons, this show has been about the people, the stores, the technology solutions, and the operators reshaping how America shops. Season three is sharper. It's about the human edge of selling and what it actually takes to win a customer in a world where algorithms handle the easy part, AI agents handle the decisions, and the only thing left worth paying a premium for is a human who actually knows how to sell. Every guest this season has built something, run something, or figured something out about that topic. So let's get into it because I'm excited about today's guest.

0:45His name is Eric Oberton. He's the founder and CEO of Trulink. And full disclosure up front, Eric and I met last year and I've been an advisor to Trulink. And you'll hear me say that anytime it's true on the show. And that hasn't changed the questions that I'm going to ask. And we're going to go deep on this. But more importantly, Eric's story, because it doesn't start in software. It starts on the ice. He was a hockey player, good enough to get drafted by the Montreal Canadiens, and good enough to play for Canada. And I want you to hold on to that because I think it explains a lot about how he leads.

1:25And since the ice, Eric has started six companies, built them, sold them, and then started again. Trulink is number six, and it's the one where the hockey and the software finally meet. A company built on the idea that the warm introduction, the vouch, the you need to talk to this person is the most valuable and most wasted asset in the business. And here's why that should matter to you. Because everybody who sells anything into retail knows the truth. Nobody buys retail technology off a demo. They buy it because a VP of stores they trust told them that it worked. That's the human edge in B2B.

2:07And it's the one thing AI hasn't figured out how to fake. Eric has built a company on the bet that you can scale that without breaking it. And I really want to find out if this is true. So Eric, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Very excited. Very excited to hear more about this. So you've been on both sides. You've been a founder trying to get into the door. You've been the guy that founders call when they need an introduction. And so take me to the specific moment when you realized I could build an entire company built on this idea. So tell us where it started.

2:47Eric Aubertin:Yes, happy to do that. Essentially, I would say there's three different parts to the answer in terms of how it started. So first of all, about two and a half years ago, I reconnected with Don Kingsborough, who basically was instrumental in acquiring one of my companies. So we reconnected about three years ago, and I was saying, what do you have been up to? And before I go there, I should say that Don was the founder of Blackhawk Networks. He invented the retail gift card. He also started, launched Atari in North America, as well as Nintendo. So he had built like four$1 billion companies. So when we reconnected, I said, Dan, what have you been up to?

3:28Eric Aubertin:He said, well, I came out of retirement. And then companies started calling me to get warm introduction into different companies. And he was advising some of those companies. So essentially, I saw him help companies go from 100 million to 200 million in a short period of time. So it was like, wow, this is really impressive. At the same time, I was helping a few companies accelerate revenue. And it always hit me that there was a gap with LinkedIn because everybody's connected on LinkedIn, but no one really knows who knows who deeply, who has a real relationship as opposed to just being connected.

4:07Eric Aubertin:So I felt there's a gap for a technology to have deeper relationship intelligence. And as you mentioned, third, I've been on both sides of the equation. I've been an advisor to startups, and I always felt like they weren't fully organized and didn't have a system to help me help them as an advisor. And I've also hired advisors, and I've always felt like, are you bugging them? Should you be asking for an introduction? There was not really a system to do that well in a way that wouldn't bug the advisors and would be optimal for everybody. So when you combine all three together, you know, we felt there was a gap.

4:47Eric Aubertin:Unfortunately, Don passed away a year ago. But essentially, the ideas that I just mentioned bubbled up into Trulink, what it is today. And we think it's a pretty significant opportunity. It's a massive opportunity. And this is also, just to be clear, not just for retail. Yes, exactly. It's for every market. Warm introductions is universal in terms of getting in the door. Yes. Yes. And just to validate that, because I have worked both as someone that was buying technology and someone that's advising many startups, often founders don't come from the industry in which they're selling into. And it's very true in retail.

5:31And the warm introduction becomes the only way that the door gets open. Because if you don't have that network, and you're not a credible expert in the category or the end user, someone like myself ends up in that place where I understand the industry, I understand the need. And so you've identified this across categories, correct? Yes, you could look at this and say this applies in restaurant, hospitality, retail, and many, many others.

6:04Eric Aubertin:Yes, it's across the industries. Exactly. Yeah, amazing. And the interesting part about where I think we sit today is that the cold outreach worked, but then AI changed the game. is because its ability to send cold, what was perceived as being cold outreach emails to thousands of people that look very personalized, it could happen in a click. And I think that when you think about buyers' inboxes, what's really changed about how people perceive that now? Yeah, I think to your point, AI has really increased the volume of emails that people receive to a point where it becomes a little bit of a noise.

6:51Eric Aubertin:If we're being honest, a lot of time when you get an email, you're thinking, is that an AI email? Is it a mass email? Is it like a minor personalization? So people are ignoring those emails more and more, first of all. Second of all, if you think about the enterprise buyers, there is more and more AI solutions out there. So think about a busy executive trying to figure out what is the best solution for me. So there's also noise in terms of supply of different solution. So essentially, to answer your question, I think companies will need to adopt their outreach strategy, and then they'll need to work harder and smarter if they want to do cold outreach.

7:33Eric Aubertin:But I do believe that this accelerates the need for human approaches like TrueLink, where a warm relationship makes you stand out. It helps you validate that both sides there's a fit. So I believe the human aspect will become more and more important to get away from that noise with AI, which is too much of too many emails, et cetera. So the human acts as a filter in the process. And can you speak a bit more about how that compares to LinkedIn? I know you said that, but here's a platform with a billion people on it. And yet I get the inbound too of like, hey, I see that you're connected to this person.

8:16Do you know them? And I don't know. I don't give a percent. At least half the time, I don't know who they are. They may be a first person, but I don't know. We've never met in that. So how does the scale of LinkedIn, how do you think about that in comparison to what you're building at Trulink?

8:37Eric Aubertin:Well, first of all, what we're building, I call it a collaborative relationship platform or a relationship network where companies can leverage their network, investors, employees, advisors, clients, partners, etc. So there is a collaborative function to basically coordinate all of this among different people. That's one. Number two, as I mentioned with LinkedIn, one of the gap is that you're connected, but you don't know how well the person knows so and so. So in the platform, we have what we call relationship rating. And then every connection, you can say, I have a great relationship. I know them personally.

9:24Eric Aubertin:I have a good relationship. I know them business-wise. I know them, but not more than that. Or I'm connected. So I don't know them, but I'm connected. So everything is created in a way that when it's time to make an introduction, everybody knows the type of relationship that exists between two people because you're always looking for the best introduction match based on the relationship. So there's many different differences, but essentially we're a collaborative platform with deep relationship intelligence underneath it to go beyond just being connected. It's about the depth of relationship and the details.

10:06Right. And the depth of relationship, you're also using technology to say, like, well, you've had in-mail conversations. It can tell that you have potentially a deeper relationship with this person. I know that because I'm going through my own profile on Trulink and still going through my 30 ,000 connections. and the idea of what actually are great, which relationships are great and easy versus just purely connected. But the AI you're using helps me do that, correct?

10:42Eric Aubertin:Yes, essentially one of the options as an advisor or network members is you can upload your LinkedIn connection or AI will automatically analyze the data without storing it and then will determine that you've had a couple exchange with this person. So, you know, you've had 23 exchanges and it's been bi-directional. So you probably either know the person or have a good relationship. So we have basically rules and AI can automatically help you organize your 30 ,000 connection. It will not always be 100 % right, but it can be 90 % right. And that's why you have to create, this is a great relationship and you agree with the AI, but we're all busy.

11:27Eric Aubertin:But imagine the time that it would have taken you to go through 30 ,000 people to, oh, I know this person well and great, good. So the system can really help you do that and save you time. Yeah. And any system that you would have tried to build individually for that, like there's nowhere to do that on LinkedIn. But if you tried to export, which you could, and do that on Excel, it would take you months without the use of technology. Exactly. Exactly. I think that's what's so interesting. One of the many interesting things about Trulink and what you're building is this ability to drill down by company, by status of relationship, by all the details of exactly what a solution provider or a buyer might need, like at a touch.

12:19Yeah, exactly.

12:21Eric Aubertin:We're really going deep into the relationship details about who you know, what's your relationship rating, but what's the correlation between the ideal customer profile and the buyer persona? What is the best fit? So the AI can analyze all of that and suggest the best introduction path. And that's kind of the goal for companies is that who is the best person to, you know, get involved in getting into Best Buy or Home Depot or what have you, essentially. Yeah. Fascinating. And so I want to kind of push into this idea of kind of the warm intro because many people potentially that are listening are advisors on retail tech platforms that also then there's a commission or there is something in it for them to make the warm intro.

13:18And, you know, when you think about is it an introduction with just between your friends and this really becomes a business. So how how are you thinking about navigating that when it comes to this being a business versus, you know, a place where friends connect?

13:41Eric Aubertin:well essentially our focus is on quality warm introduction where the advisor or the internal network member basically makes an introduction to companies that they generally believe there's a good fit so i think that's number one we're not a matchmaking marketplace where everybody can connect we believe in quality introduction and we've designed a process to really ensure that that it's designed for quality. I think that's number one. Number two, it's important to know that there's two parts to our platform. So you have company A that already has their network. They have employees and team members.

14:23Eric Aubertin:They have advisors, investors, board members, clients, et cetera. So that's the internal network. And then you can complement that with TrueLink advisors that we help recruit that would be tailored to each of our clients so that they can make proper introductions. So everything, as you can see, is designed based on quality matching. And the internal members may not receive a commission. It might be that the team member gets a$500 gift card or a$1 ,000 gift card, whatever the amount is. Or if it's an investor, they'll just do it to help the company. So the internal network, the companies can decide if they want to give a reward or not.

15:05Eric Aubertin:And then when it comes to an external Trulink advisors, there's many different levels. You can get engaged in really helping the company and provide some advice plus some introduction, or you can just make introductions. So there's different ways to get compensated from monthly fee, sometime equity, and then rev share. So it really depends on the introduction, but the core is around quality introduction that people believe there's a genuine fit as opposed to matchmaking at large. Makes absolute sense to me. And again, there's no, to my knowledge, platform at scale that has done this specifically around advisors and technology solutions.

15:51Right. You really are the pioneer here in how to do this and industries that scramble for this.

16:01Eric Aubertin:Yeah, I think there has been referral programs, but even though it's tied to what we do, we're very different. We're focused on quality, vetted, warm introduction. We don't believe in matchmaking, and it's not just about referrals. It's a win-win-win. It has to be a win for you, an advisor, to make an introduction. It makes sense for the enterprise to get access to this great company. So it really has to be a win-win-win, and that's the way I've designed the company. It has to be around quality matches, and that's the core of the platform. Amazing. Interesting. And if you could articulate, because I know that as you've described, very two-sided advisors and solution providers, who are the best candidates for both sides of the platform?

16:57And we'll, at the end of the show, and certainly in the notes, we'll share how to contact you and how to get involved. But who are those kind of ideal customer profiles for both advisors and solution providers?

17:14Eric Aubertin:Well, for the clients, first, it has to be B2B. They need to have a sales motion. So having a sales team, or at least if the founder is selling. You have to have some revenue motion. I think one key point I want to point out is that if you're looking for one or two introductions per year, you don't need a platform. So if you need ad hoc, don't call us. We won't be able to help you. But if you really want to scale this, then you need what we have to offer. And I think one of the keys I want to point out is that you have to be committed to the program. Because if you're trying to really scale warm introduction, it just won't happen overnight.

17:54Eric Aubertin:will give you all the piece, the platform, the success formula, will provide coaching on how to execute and will recruit advisor, but you do have to be committed. So those are the key points with regard to the client base. And it has to be an annual contract value that is a certain size so that you can actually, it's worth it for an advisor or a network member to be part of your network. So I think that's key. and in terms of the advisors, essentially it's anybody that has warm introduction. The way I think about it is that why you've built a network over many years, you know a lot of people, why would you not advise one or two companies that you actually believe in?

18:40Eric Aubertin:I know you have a full-time job, but why don't you help one or two and then we'll look at how you want to get involved a little bit, do you want to get involved a little bit more? So we have a different way of compensation for monthly fee, rev share, et cetera. But I always think that one of your biggest assets as an individual is your network. Why not help one or two companies? And one of the things I really want to convey is we really protect your privacy, where you basically browse companies and you have to find the one that you like. So you have to join their network. It has to be mutual. Number two, for every opportunity, if you know somebody at Best Buy, you don't have to say who you know and the details.

19:23Eric Aubertin:It will basically show up. I run so-and-so companies interested in your relationship with Best Buy. Would you be interested in exploring? Yes. Would you like to provide details? And then you would say, yes, I do know the CMO, et cetera. So then there's a second layer of protection about sharing details. And third, when you agree to make an introduction, the system will allow you to work with the company on the perfect pitch and how you would do the introduction. It's always about the advisor. So to answer your question, we welcome people to join the network. As you mentioned, it will help you organize your network because you'll automatically rate your relationship.

20:03Eric Aubertin:You can pick companies that you'd like to support and you can decide if you want to be a little engaged, more engaged. There's ways in the platform to define how you want to be involved. But my point is, why not help one or two companies that you believe in? Yeah, I think it's fascinating, Eric. I think it's the solution that so many people I have conversations with on both sides. And I would actually say like three sides, both on the advisors, the retail brands and the solution providers, like the ability to do that because it comes in all directions. And to be able to organize that, think more clearly, also have access to then ideas of maybe there are solution providers I don't know, or that have solutions that I'm not aware of based on the brands that I'm working with that come to me and say, hey, we're searching for a new POS solution.

21:05Who's interesting to you? And there are so many. I have a relationship with a handful, but there's just more to learn. So I'm actually looking forward to learning not just more about how my network becomes more valuable, but what I can learn about other solution providers.

21:23Eric Aubertin:Exactly. It's around organizing some of the best growth companies to be part of the network. And to your point, also the enterprise, there's so many different AI solutions. Wouldn't it be nice if you got a recommendation from somebody you trust about the POS system? Because the person has been an advisor for two years and has done all the legwork in vetting that company. So that's kind of the idea. And I think the key, again, it's all around quality as opposed to volume. We're really focus on quality as opposed to broad, because that's where it's a win-win when the right solution providers are introduced to the right enterprise by the right advisor or network partner.

22:08Eric Aubertin:So it's really a mix of quality. I want to kind of jump to the spine of the season here, which has really been about the human edge of selling. And I've spoken a lot about that in terms of primarily like B2C versus B2B. But as I'm listening to you and as you and I have spent time together the last several months, the human edge of selling in B2B is just as important and maybe even more of a craft and an art than we've even really spoken about. And so when you think about just that human, the human edge of selling, am I being too romantic about this? Or do you see this as an even more valuable part of the future in B2B?

23:01Eric Aubertin:Yeah, as we mentioned, because of cold emails and AI and so many different solutions, I do believe that the human factor and this approach will become more and more popular. I also see we've noticed that executives are getting busier and busier and they're hard to reach. So it's really hard to get in. So warm introduction becomes one of the best ways to get in. And think about the impact of having Don Kingsborough setting up a meeting with Dollar General and then the credibility and all the knowledge of the industry that you bring. So it really is a way to get in that would help you close more deals faster and then get more deals done through warm introduction.

23:55Eric Aubertin:So I believe, especially with AI, there's going to be more and more opportunities to leverage warm. And that's what we're trying to organize beyond LinkedIn with deeper relationship intelligence, a platform. And I think one of the keys is that people say, yeah, we do a few warm introductions. Why do we need TrueLink? The reason why you need TrueLink is because you need to scale this. And how do you scale this? You need many different parts. For one, you need a platform. You need a success formula. You need to execute on the success formula, and you need to be able to expand your network and also engage everybody in the process, including relationship intelligence.

24:40Eric Aubertin:So it's one of those where it looks easy when you look at it, but if you're trying to scale, you need many, many different parts. And I've been thinking about this for three years, and I crammed everything into a platform and a success formula. And, you know, it has to be the combination of all those pieces. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and speaking of that, I was really thinking about hockey and your background and the idea of games and think of like, you never really know what's going to happen until the end. We've actually watched a lot of those games happen this summer. And like, how do you think about the last two minutes of the game or what's going to happen and what's teachable, what's predictable?

25:26Like what's not when it comes to B2B sales like this?

25:30Eric Aubertin:Well, I think our system and AI can really help company figure out what is the best introduction path in every company. So when you think about our system, we collect data from every client. Deep intelligence, what's your ICP, buyer persona, what are your advantages? Everything about your strategy, we know, number one. Number two, we get to know Ron. Ron speaks a certain way, writes a certain way. your background, who you know, your relationship rating. We also enrich with data, with third party about everything is going on with Signal. They've hired somebody, they hire a new CEO, etc. When you combine this massive amount of data with clients, the advisors and network members, plus externally, you get a sense for what's the right timing, who should be the right person to make the introduction.