The Inner Game Most Sales Leaders Never Coach with Collin Henderson

0:00Matt Farris: And I'll just tell anybody, your limits begin where your vision ends. You never outperform your self-image. And if you're a leader who's only coaching the business stuff, there are three things you can train, body, craft, mind. So going back to that story at Washington State playing football, I was training my body, weight room. I was training my craft as a receiver. I was not touching the mental skills I needed to be the best version of me. So that's why I do what I do.

0:30Collin Henderson: Welcome to the Revenue Builders Podcast, a weekly show featuring B2B sales leaders and executives. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and force management co-founder John Kaplan, the show takes guests in the barrel, behind the scenes with the people who've been there, done that, and seen the results. Revenue Builders covers best practices for scaling and growing your business while sharing the pitfalls to avoid.

1:00Collin Henderson: Today's guest is Colin Henderson, founder of Master Your Mindset and author of several books on performance psychology. His latest, The Oz Method, is out now. Colin spent his career at the intersection of elite sports and corporate performance. He's director of mental conditioning for UCLA women's basketball, works with Russell Wilson's company Limitless Minds, and has trained teams at Amazon, Nike, Microsoft, Salesforce, and Lululemon. But what makes this conversation hit different is Colin's own story. A two-sport Division I athlete at Washington State University, he developed a stutter in sixth grade, a symptom he now understands of growing up, tying his own worth to performance.

1:53Collin Henderson: Years later, in a sales role that nearly broke him, he found the mindset work that turned his career around and became the framework he now teaches everyone else. This one's about the inner game, the 80 % of performance most sales leaders never coach. Listen up. This is a good one. So Colin, following up on our, after our prep session, it was really a joy to meet you and get to know you a little bit. And I just think that your origin story is really amazing. like, you know, just the background and, you know, multi-sport athlete. Would you mind just kind of getting us started to, you know, we got contacted from somebody who interacted with you, was pretty amazed about the content and the premise of your mastering your mindset and the Oz method.

2:50Collin Henderson: And so we'll get into all that, but would you mind just kind of giving us the origin story of how you got to that place?

2:56Matt Farris: Sure thing. Well, honor Captain Matt. Great to see y 'all. Hope you're having a good day. And I think the unfortunate thing I learned about change is when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And unfortunately, most people aren't willing to do the work unless they're in a crisis. And thinking back to my years playing baseball and football at Washington State University, go Cougs. I was entering my third year playing football, had a great true freshman year, not so good sophomore year. So I was putting all this pressure on myself. I was like, this is going to be the year. This is going to be it.

3:32Matt Farris: I'm going to train. I'm going to lift weights. I'm going to catch passes. Like, I have two more years. I'm an upperclassman. I just can't let this opportunity slip. So from the information I had on what was in my control to be better at football is I got after the weight room and my technical skills. And I had a great spring, great summer, great fall camp. I literally was like Randy Moss out there. No one was guarding me. and I'm starting, and we're playing Idaho. It was a Thursday night, like one of the first games of the season. We're on ESPN. The place is packed. Family's in town. And two hours before kickoff, we do kind of like some of our walkthroughs and we go back to my locker.

4:16Matt Farris: I had this panic attack because I was doing really good in these controlled practice environments by myself, controlled environments with my quarterback and receivers. team drills now this is going to be on national television now like it's real the lights are on and the moment just consumed me and i was projecting what could go wrong and you know there's different moments i can talk about i had a sales experience very similar after grad school was in fundraising at washington state got into life sciences so selling to doctors selling to hospitals selling to surgeons and sales is like sports as a winner there's a loser there's a leaderboard there's rankings you win you get all the praise and you have a leader a manager you're part of a team there's there's competition you're selling against other people and i had these patterns of you know i felt great when i won but i felt like crap when i lost so how i summarize that I'm a recovering perfectionist, people pleaser who gets self-worth tied to performance.

5:22Matt Farris: Anybody out there can resonate with that. And it got so consuming. We would have these verbal tests over the phone. I had to take a Xanax. I literally had so much anxiety about not screwing up. So what I found before I get to what changed is shame is in the past and fear is in the future. so if you're stepping into a performance mode and you're you're reliving your past mistakes and you're pre-living what could go wrong that is going to just jack you up with your focus being authentic and being in the present moment and i i have an equation a talent plus skill minus internal interference equals execution probability there's a lot in there so leaders That's not hard to miss that equation.

6:12Collin Henderson: Yeah. If you're in text sales enterprise, if you're a leader, if you're a producer, you hire for talent, you train skill.

6:21Matt Farris: But the biggest common denominator, the biggest X factor is internal interference. And that is self-doubt, noise, comparing what Dr. Michael Gervais calls the number one epidemic of performance, FOPO, fear of other people's opinions. Focus on what you don't want to have happen. That influences your executional probability. So it was just noisy up there, Cap and Mac. It was just a shit show up there of like this like junk drawer. So I equate your brain is like a junk drawer. When you're going to your junk drawer to get something, a tool you need to execute, whether it's a pen, scissors, tape, you name it, super glue, I don't know.

7:04Matt Farris: And you can't find it or you found a pencil. There's no lead in it. You can't execute. That's like what you're looking for to close a deal, to get connection, to handle an objection, to a tough conversation. A client who's going off the rails, you didn't expect it, and you're looking for a mental-emotional tool, and it's nowhere to be found. So you self-sabotage, or you delay, you don't perform. So when I changed companies in 2014, because of stress and because of anxiety, I just needed a different environment. I was given a gift. So I'll go back to that original thing. When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

7:43Matt Farris: It's hard to create change unless you're looking for change. One of my favorite books is The Brain That Changes Itself. The first step in learning is you have to want to learn. There's a law. So having that humility really is the birthplace of innovation. So I was given a sales trainer that was like, Colin, yo, dude, let's go. There's these business books. There's these mindset books. and every organization is learning about, you know, spreadsheets. And I mean, no disrespect to an MBA, but like here's the econ and here's, you know, the market analysis, here's like P &L and here's, you know, pricing.

8:22Matt Farris: But if you're going to really get change, lasting change, if you're going to disrupt an industry and have the tools you need to succeed, sales psychology beats sales strategy. There's an outer game and there's an inner game. Outer game is like 10 % to 15%. Yet most companies and business leaders spend their time on that outer game stuff. Like I just mentioned, rankings and your routing plan and dialing for dollars, just having some type of KPIs, but you're not touching that 85%, 90 % under the surface where no one can see your mindset, your mental conditioning, your identity. So just having someone like that and what I call break the pattern, someone break the pattern and how I'm training, what I'm using my time, what I'm spending my time on to develop the skills to win, it changed everything.

9:14Matt Farris: It's like the Matrix has been used a lot. There's a blue pill, here's a red pill. Like, which one are you going to take? It's just he was teaching things like boss become things, like attracts like, energy flows where focus goes, which you resist persist. I'm like, Yoda, slow down. Like, bring that back. Like, he was just giving it to me. And then what I was really excited was is he gave me a list of books. Now I could start studying. I can start searching these things on YouTube. I can start training different things. And not only did my blood pressure go from the high 150s, high 140s to normal, not only was I sleeping better, but I started setting sales records.

9:50Matt Farris: I was better with my family. I was more present. And it just unlocked possibility. and I'll just tell anybody your limits begin where your vision ends. You never outperform your self-image and if you're a leader who's only coaching the business stuff there are three things you can train body, craft, mind. So going back to that story at Washington State playing football I was training my body, weight room I was training my craft as a receiver I was not touching the mental skills I needed to be the best version of me So that's why I do what I do.

10:27Collin Henderson: Amazing, dude. Now you left out one piece from our pre-call, which I would never guess because I spent time with you. I've been an hour with you before. And now just in this intro part here, you had a severe stutter.

10:42Matt Farris: That's true. That's very true. Okay, now let's go back even further. Let's go back even further. but what's so kind of interesting about why you brought that up is because I got so used to hiding it you know and usually you know if you look at you know what's the what are best every every story what do great storytellers or great stories or narratives have is they have five parts which I teach in the Oz Method yes part one is you set the scene part two is there's a challenge part three is there's a growth journey part four is there's a face your fear there's a plot twist and then part five is the resolution.

11:19Matt Farris: See, I was saving it for that plot twist, you know, part number four, but hey, we're gonna jump right into it, John. So when I was 11 years old, I changed schools. It was in this honors program and I got asked to read out loud. So I'm in a new environment. I'm with kids I don't know. I'm in an honors program. So I'm, oh, I have to like show up and show out and prove that I belong. And I kind of just got caught up in the pressure of the moment And that first week, again, new environment, asked to read out loud. And I got stuck on a word. I got stuck on another word. And I had this warm blanket of shame, a really powerful book for y 'all to take a look at is The Body Keeps the Score.

12:07Matt Farris: Said differently, the issues are in the tissues. So I had an embarrassing moment that my nervous system was just shocked. My identity self-image was just out of whack. So that was such a scary experience. I told myself, don't let that ever happen again. So what you don't use, you lose. Because I avoided those experiences because of that one bad event. It was just one bad event. It wasn't like a bunch of them. It was just one bad event. I carried that identity and that self-image of, I guess I'm not a good speaker. I guess I'm not a good public speaker. And by reliving that bad experience and by pre-living not screwing up, guess what I would train my brain, my nervous system about the skills that I have or lack of skills.

12:56Matt Farris: I developed a late onset stutter, 11, 12, 13. And it got worse every single year. There was times in my life I couldn't say my own name. I couldn't answer the phone. I couldn't order food through a drive-thru. um and i remember at gsk pharma i was asked to say something on a on a webex like get my commentary on some new stuff and like i had a literal another panic attack i slammed my laptop shut text my manager i lost service which was not true but i just coped with that for so long like going back to this iceberg most people didn't know now my closest circle knew 100 percent but i did such a good job of masking and being so clever on adapting so people couldn't tell i remember we had a indication like a new a new indication and we had like different ways where they would evaluate us and some of them were it was on this like virtual thing and a phone thing i literally pre-recorded my answers right because i was too nervous to do it on my own i had two phones it was i was like like i don't know like a switchboard producer dj like switching based off a certain question.

14:08Matt Farris: I had prerecorded my answer. So much anxiety. I remember early in that process, I went through training in Seattle with my manager and a few new hires. And the drug, they said, all right, you're going to sell Vesicare for overactive bladder. And I'm driving home in the minivan that I was given. Let's go, single, driving a minivan. I moved back home. My parents, because I had just left Pullman, sleeping in bunk beds. Talk about a catch. Let's go, bunk bed. parents minivan so i'm looking at myself driving home and i got this new new word i had to say it was vesicare i couldn't say it back to myself so i just like i've had a lot of hard things and it's like which one do i talk about so but that was a real thing that i literally and most people didn't know so i couldn't say the words i'm driving home processing i just left my other job for this job if I can't say the scientific drug name back to myself, how can I say it to a doctor?

15:09Matt Farris: How can I say it when I'm going to fly to North Carolina for three weeks of onboarding in this high pressure pharmaceuticals? I can't even say it to myself. So I went home. I literally cried for like two hours. But I'll just say this. Everything changed. What was the pattern interrupt? Everything changed. I started doing speech therapy. 26, 27 years old.

15:30Collin Henderson: Now, let's get some context here. You're a collegiate superstar in both football and baseball. Two-sport athlete. Good grades. Captain of the team, I think.

15:45Matt Farris: I was, yep.

15:48Collin Henderson: And you're now dealing with this. you've you achieved all that and now you're dealing with this at 26 27 that's it's just

15:56Matt Farris: bizarre well i was i didn't address it i can even think back going into my senior year we're at this celebrity cougar golf tournament i was a celebrity and you know the donors pay money to golf with you this was pre-nil come on like imagine what happened if i was around the nil um but uh bud namick who was the voice of the cougs along with bob robertson pulled me aside calling we're gonna to feature you this year as a senior leader on the radio just need to read this script this is while i was like putting you know getting ready for this golf tournament and normally most adults you know i was an academic all-american i had a three nine grade point average yes i couldn't read this paragraph because of anxiety now i could talk to bud namick and just like shoot the shit and just like, but now when the spotlight went on, when I had to say specific words, that 11 year old came back and I was just frozen.

16:52Matt Farris: So, and I didn't deal with it. I didn't, I didn't talk to anybody about it. I just avoided it. And I think maybe a lesson for y 'all is let's just look at one of my life quotes by, by Joseph Campbell, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek. Whether it was playing football, having anxiety, whether it was selling, have anxiety. And a lot of that anxiety was rooted from my childhood trauma that I did not deal with until I was 26, 27 years old. And asking for help is a sign of strength. I don't want us to NO fear, think, oh, if I feel fear, you know, it's bad or I can't perform.

17:33Matt Farris: You know, no fear. I want us to K-N-O-W fear. If you don't understand the way the brain works with fear, if you don't understand how to process it, if you don't understand how to navigate it, I think you're never going to have the influence. You're never going to have the success. You're never going to unlock. You're never going to heal. You're never going to then transfer your pain into your power. So by asking for help, doing therapy, speech therapy, and then here's another plot twist that will tie it all together. Going back to that first thing I said, when the student is ready, the teacher appears.

18:07Matt Farris: You're the problem. You're the solution. At GSK, after going through speech therapy and like I bought a camcorder and I was practicing, you know, reciting words. Cause there was like a hundred words I couldn't say. I wrote down these words I couldn't say. So I'm practicing these words. I get, I survive sales training at the home office. And then when I start working out in the field, one of my, my, my team members was like a mentor. She was the Puyallup, Washington president of Toastmasters. And she's like, Colin, Hey, I, you're congrats I'm working at GSK. We're going to share some of her doctors.

18:42Matt Farris: She was selling different products, but I'm the president of Toastmasters. You know what Toastmasters is? I was like, no. Well, it's a club globally where there's local chapters where we meet every week and we practice public speaking. I'm like, oh my God, I've already struggled and suffered enough going through all my shit. Now you want me to voluntarily do my big fear in front of strangers every week. but man what what i've what i've what i've learned is that pain and shame cannot be healed unless it's shared just can't it can't and the longer you waited as wait so i said yes and i was scared but every single time i'd show up i found that the antidote to fear is action action and then growing from it having compassion growing from it but um nobody should worry free or win alone.

19:39Matt Farris: If you don't share some of these things with someone, it's like a virus that's going to just consume you. But once you verbalize and ask for help, there's this freeing peace that comes over you. I've never quite heard the definition of fear and anxiety

20:01Collin Henderson: through such vivid examples of how it manifests itself in one's life, but we all have it. So if we're listening right now, and for the rest of the time together, we want people to straighten their backs a little bit and lean forward and maybe get out a pen. What would you encourage that individual that's kind of listening right now? It's resonating. I have some panic. I have some anxiety. Anybody who says they don't, they're not alive. There are certain situations that I'll be in that will create certain scenarios. So how does one kind of identify? Now I want to get the most out of this conversation going forward.

20:42Collin Henderson: How does one identify where they are in this conversation? And maybe my fears aren't identified. Like I'm afraid of stuff. Like I'm afraid to go to an economic buyer. I'm afraid to tell my boss I'm not going to get the forecast or whatever that is. How do I get how do I identify it before I can even, you know, you said the cave is there and what's the value in the cave to go in the cave. But I don't even know where the cave is. I just have this. I have just a bunch of awkwardness and a bunch of fear and anxiety about performance. Any suggestions?

21:22Matt Farris: Well, the first step is you're showing up to this podcast and you want to learn. I guess that would be the first step is just to say, I want to improve. I want to get better. And this is a great place to start. So let's just acknowledge the listeners. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for getting this far. so as I just kind of think back on my journey I would never teach somebody just do something I haven't done I would never expect you to try something I haven't tried or haven't researched and try to implement on myself but what I look at is I think let's just kind of get I have no other place to go but depth I'm just that's who I am and I think there's a lot of surface people surface content out there what I found is the number one driver of behavior what you run to and what you run away from is your identity.

22:14Matt Farris: Just think that through, your self-image, how you see yourself, how do you picture yourself. So what influences this identity and this self-worth, this image? Really powerful book to look at is Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. It was written in 1960. Psycho meaning thinking, the brain. Cybernetics meaning port, a place of where you go to.

22:48Matt Farris: How do you see yourself? The most powerful force is how you see yourself. So what is deriving how you see yourself? I'll give you, it's the definition of the word mindset. Think of these two words crashing together, mind and set. It's a set of beliefs, this collection of thoughts and feelings and emotions over and over again. The definition is a conditioned set of beliefs that drive behavior. And we've been conditioned by three things since birth, what we see, hear, and experience. What you see, hear, and experience. So your parents, your friends growing up socially, what you're hearing from adults, parents, friends, social, what you're experiencing.

23:37Matt Farris: And what I found is the brain doesn't tend to lean positive because it's a survival machine. It's one job is to keep you alive. The limbic system and your amygdala, one of the first parts of your brain that are actively working is looking at threats and danger. It's designed to survive and not thrive. It's shaped by what I call trauma, drama, daddy, and mama.

24:06Matt Farris: So your picture of yourself, this internal image on how you see yourself, how you talk to yourself, what you expect, how you show up, how you think people perceive you, how you think, you know, just based off of evidence from your past. It's shaped by negative shit. And most people, you know, haven't had deep dive therapy or coaching or retreats or, you know, because it's normal to do fantasy football. That's normal. It's normal to go on vacation somewhere and just kind of check out and read a book. Like it's very rare to say, all right, I want to uncover like what has shaped me? Why do I think the way I do?

24:55Why do I feel normal in these environments?

24:58Matt Farris: Why do you feel normal in these environments? Because there's been a collection of experiences. So I guess the first thing I can teach anybody is just understanding there are four dimensions of thinking. dimension one this is the first step of healing is words words create the second dimension which are pictures so if you're recycling words and language so language is the wardrobe of our beliefs words your self-talk is like code software of a computer so if you're narrating describing you know and narrating and describing and recycling using words to shape pictures and And then the third dimension are emotions.

25:40Matt Farris: And the fourth dimension are beliefs. So the brain doesn't care what is true or false. The brain cares about what is repeated. So if I were to, you know, step one is like, what? What words do you describe yourself? I'm not a morning person. I always forget names. I'm bad at directions. I'm a horrible public speaker. I tell myself, I'm just, I can't speak in public. Like when the lights are on, I feel like I'm recycling. I'm using words. Every culture has different language. Every clique group has different slang they use. I'm using words and I'm reminding myself of this. I can see the classroom.

26:20Matt Farris: Can you all see the classroom of me stuttering? Can you imagine sixth grade classroom with desks, with a whiteboard chalkboard, coats up on the rack, crayons or scissors? I'm in that picture. I'm going back to that trauma in my mind. And the third, the feeling, I'm recycling that feeling over and over and over again. And you wonder why I lack confidence or belief in that area of my life. So I think what we need to start doing is what words and pictures and feelings that are unproductive do I keep going back to? Do I keep reliving? There needs to be just some compassionate, vulnerable truth to uncover what's the source.

27:10Matt Farris: And almost kind of, you may have heard this in therapy of just like reparenting yourself or recoaching yourself if it was an event, you know, as an adult and just say, man, everyone makes mistakes. No one is perfect. You're safe and you're okay. and I would have every single human master these five words. I'm not defined by this. You're not defined by this. Why, if you had nine great performances, you have the one negative, that that's the one you focus on. That's the one that you derive your words, your pictures, your feelings. You're just going back to that one moment. And if I can re-coach myself when I was a wide receiver, I would take my risks and I would write the number 99 on it.

28:02Matt Farris: Why? Because my self-talk, the old self-talk, is I would think about the one drop and think about not dropping a pass versus, wait a second, if I were to collect all the pass from me, I'm catching 99%. Why don't I focus on that 99 %? Probably that I will make the catch. But my negative stinking thinking is thinking about the 1%, but wait, the odds are in my favor. I'd catch it. But how many of us are going into these environments thinking worst case scenarios? What could go wrong? Or they're stepping in a moment and they're just going back and reverting to the bad experiences. So that's that internal interference that is just scrambling authenticity and focus.

28:47Matt Farris: So I guess the first step would be, be an observer. The very word mindful means to pay attention. just sit and observe just observe your thinking there's a new evidence new development in brain science is called the default mode network and that is like where does your brain go in times of idleness is it is it falling back to shame is it falling back to guilt is it falling back to regret is it projecting fear so if you can name it you can tame it step one to change is awareness Awareness precedes behavior change. Mindful means to pay attention. Mindfulness is the practice of awareness being present without judgment.

29:26Matt Farris: So don't judge. Don't just think it, ink it. You're probably recycling two, three similar thoughts, emotions, feelings over and over again. And our beliefs are not based on truth, our perception of the truth. So is that thought truth said by who? And as Jay Shetty teaches, spot, stop, swaps. But step one is to spot.

29:46Collin Henderson: buddy i it's in but sometimes in my life when i had to do something really difficult that i was fearful of i actually used fear to drive fear away that makes sense like i used to tell myself if i don't do it like in my job they'll find somebody else to do it so it's the fear of losing the job that allowed me to go do what i had to do so that makes sense well i think what

30:14Matt Farris: What you're talking about, Mac, is you're finding a purpose larger than yourself. Yeah.

30:20Collin Henderson: Like, I mean, one time physically even we were, I was with a bunch of guys and we ended up on this knife's edge of a mountain. Where the only way across this 20-foot area was to stick your fingers into your fingertips and get across. us. And I remember like the fear of everybody talking drove me to go through it first, because I thought if I sit here more, the fear is going to get even worse. I almost used fear to drive away my fear. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that has definitely happened in my life in business where I did that many, many times when I was uncomfortable or put in a position where I had to do something for the first time.

31:07Collin Henderson: And what were you talking about, Colin, is that we project that on others? So I worked for the dude for eight years, and the fear, his fear that he projected on all of us, how come it didn't drive out the fear for us, buddy? Well, yeah, I think there's different ways. I tell you what, the other thing on it is, anytime you're going to make a major change in life, here's another experience that I had, Colin, and I'm going to make a major change in life or other people are going to make a major change in life and they share it with other people and they already have fear, like there's a fear-based decision kind of keeping them from doing it.

31:44Collin Henderson: Then when you share it with other people, what do they do? They dump their fears on you. And then you're almost saying, well, maybe I won't make that decision because I'm scared and now everybody I talk to is scared and is telling you, oh, you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't change your job. You shouldn't move. You shouldn't do this. You shouldn't do that. and you just gotta in some ways you have to fight through it yeah well

32:06Matt Farris: I have a few thoughts I can I can take this a few ways so I'm trying to figure out choose your own adventure what lane am I gonna take so but but let's just let's just re-look at what fear is fear is a physical response to a mental threat and what's interesting about brain science is the brain and the body cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined so what is the antidote to fear it's always action it's always the very word uh act action changes things this is from carl young that thing you fear the most that is your task and it's usually not real so knowing fear is is this imagined is this made up um well now danger Danger and fear are two different things, Matt, because I think there is some real, actually, self-preserving, fearful thoughts that if that ledge is little, I should have some productive fear to keep my body safe.

33:07But the difference between danger and fear is because we have an ancient brain in modern

33:14Matt Farris: times where, you know, is there a saber tooth around the corner? now it's it's transitioning less less from danger and more am i socially safe do i belong am i am i fitting and we have the same physical reaction to a perceived social threat as physical danger yes palms are sweaty knees weak arms are heavy vomit on a sweater already mom's spaghetti he's nervous on the server he looks calm and ready to drop bombs but he keeps on forgetting you know so you you can execute by yourself you can execute in front of a safe person but in front of this like high level executive or this really important client, your brain starts sabotaging and you make the moment bigger than it is.

33:55Matt Farris: So I don't know. I just feel like what I found is that the anticipation is worse than the participation. 100%.

34:04Collin Henderson: 100%. That negative, I call it in my mind, I call the guy Dr. No. As long as I've learned Dr. No, it's never gone away. He's always told me why I shouldn't go to the gym, why I shouldn't go on a run, why I shouldn't do this, shouldn't do that. And I got to tell them to shut up, like I'm going. And to your point, it's action. It's ACT.

34:25Matt Farris: Well, yeah. And Mac, what you're talking about is, it's this idea of cognitive diffusion. The thought is not the thinker. The feeling's not the feeler. Feelings are not facts. And I learned this from Ali Love on the Peloton. She once said, your first thought will be negative but your second, third, fourth thought doesn't have to be. You're literally practicing cognitive diffusion where you're having a dialogue with yourself. You're actually countering this negative inner dialogue. One of the most profound books I read early in my journey was, it was by Shirzad Sharmine. The book is called Positive Intelligence.

35:09Matt Farris: And what percent of human thoughts are negative according to the National Science Foundation? Have y 'all heard?

35:16Collin Henderson: Majority? 90%.

35:18Matt Farris: Someone say a lot, a lot. Yeah. The answer is 80 % and 95 % of human thoughts are reoccurring. So part of what this book teaches us is if you can just recognize these negative thought patterns and just be an observer and what advice would you give your friend? What would you tell one of your children? So you can be an observer and you can label it your inner judge, your inner critic. This isn't the real me. This is my ancient brain. This is my little Colin who's still hurt and doesn't feel safe. It's all safety. But what you're doing is you're countering. And this is a phenomenal question by Dr.

35:56Matt Farris: Susan David, a Harvard psychologist, wrote a phenomenal book called Emotional Agility. Who is in charge, the thinker or the thought? Are we ready to get this deep today? I don't know. I'm throwing some. I don't know.

36:10Collin Henderson: To be honest, I was getting ready to sue my therapist because I thought you and her had a conversation before we got on here.

36:18Matt Farris: Yeah. So it's this thought of, you know, do you have a dog? Like who's walking who? If the mind is untrained, the thought will win. If the mind is trained, the thinker will win. You know, J-Mac, you're talking about, you know, you've learned how to be an observer. And you've learned how to recognize unproductive thought patterns. and then you're giving your brain a different place to go. You're not falling to your first impulse, your first fear. You're actually, it's called power in the pause, go to truth, what is in my control, and then you're taking the next right step. But you are just verbalizing out loud, everyone's going to have self-doubt.

37:05Matt Farris: Everyone is going to have fear. But you cannot practice courage without fear being present. What does the warrior and the coward have in common?

37:17Collin Henderson: They're both afraid.

37:19Matt Farris: They both feel fear. Where the coward gives into the fear and runs away and avoids, the warrior recognizes the fear and says, my desire to serve is stronger than my fear.

37:34Collin Henderson: I think that last part is really important in sales calls. We have lots of salespeople on this podcast. I found out when I was selling originally in my career, I was always anxious and thinking about what I was going to say. I started to figure out when I would come out, I'm not really in the moment. I'm not really in that conversation. I'm not really listening intently on what that customer is saying because I was fearful, I was anxious, thinking about what I'm saying. What are they going to ask me that I don't know? It took me a long time. And even today, still I have to tell myself, a lot of times not through fear, but just be in the moment.

38:20Collin Henderson: Kind of look around. Be aware of your surroundings. and just kind of listen intently while you're telling your inner thoughts to shut up. Because if I don't listen intently and I'm not here and I'm not in the moment, I'm not in the customer conversation. And therefore, I'm a shitty salesperson.

38:41Matt Farris: Yeah, this is this concept. You aren't who you think you are. You aren't who others think you are. You are what you think other people think you are. And the reality is, I mean I just say that y 'all are important people but like no one's going to bed thinking about your mistakes so we have this self-biacy it's called the spotlight effect where we think people are judging and critiquing what we're saying and doing the irony is they're actually doing it to themselves a great quote from Megan Rapinoe is your opponent is more nervous than you yeah wow so you think you're the only one that's nervous they're actually nervous too but even when you're selling to a customer.

39:21Matt Farris: Now, is this podcast, is this visual or is it just audio? Both. Oh, okay. Some people listen on YouTube. All right, we're on YouTube right now. Let's go. I'm going to draw you something and I'll explain it to the people who aren't visually watching. So I want you to picture two circles. The picture of the circle on the left is fully filled in. This is you thinking about them thinking about you. The circle on the right is this tiny little speck, which represents how much they're actually thinking about you. Yeah, right. Yeah. So fear is a liar. Fear thinks that it's all about you. Fear is all ego.

40:06Matt Farris: And it's just not true. Fear is a liar. So I think one of the freeing things for me, freeing things for me, going through therapy and speech therapy, when I was in fundraising at Wash State University. I was the coordinator of the Gray W Club. My job was to get former athlete alumni involved. We had dues, we had events. And I'd have to answer the phone. And I promise you, there was seasons and months I could not say, hello, WSU Athletic Foundation, Colin Anderson. I just could not make sound. And just a freeing thing for me was no one speaks perfect. no one gives a shit they're just calling about something media that's not that big of a deal i'm hyping up that this is like this huge thing but it's really not that big of a deal they're worrying about their cat has an infection i don't know i just made that up they're worried about you know they have to give a best man speech you know in two weeks and they don't know what they're going to say.

41:11Matt Farris: They're not even thinking about me. So there's just something that was freeing about that. Just reality is like, everyone's worried about how they look. No one's going to critique you. After this podcast, you'll probably think about how did I sound intelligent in my questions? Like you're not even thinking about half the stuff I said, because we're so, we have the spotlight effect. We have the self-bias and that is stopping a lot of us from being our true authentic self.

41:40Collin Henderson: You know what's really powerful? That stops Captain on the golf course because we think everybody's just looking at us when I do shit. They don't care. Their next shot. That was very kind. That was kind the way you did that. Now I'm going to give my buddy some love here. Very difficult time in my life a few years ago. And Johnny Mac shows up on my doorstep. and I won't go into a lot of detail, but John, I don't know if you remember, but this was the theme of what you said to me. I had so much shame about something and your direct, I've never forgotten it and I never will forget it. Nobody gives a crap.

42:29Collin Henderson: He used other words, but he said, nobody gives a crap And for some strange reason, if you're dealing with someone that would give a crap, then you don't want to be around them anyway. And I've never I've never forgotten that because the now you putting it together, Colin, for me is that that's what goes on in the brain is that what's driving us is how we think we're presenting ourselves or instead of just being in ourselves. and that shows up in sales. I think about something that somebody told me. I was always afraid of not having the answer because Johnny in his infinite wisdom hired me to be, I'd never sold software before and I wasn't an engineer and he said it would be a good idea for me to come over and sell engineering and manufacturing software.

43:23And then not only that, but just lead people

43:26Collin Henderson: who already are selling it. and it was a little bit overwhelming at first and then I realized that, you know, it's not the answer is not the power. It's the question that's the bigger power. And that was something I picked up early on in my sales career, which really helped me. And I always said that the answers typically are in the room. I got up in front of thousands of people at force management were talking of people asking me questions and it's all impromptu, just like you do probably, Colin, and people are screaming stuff out. And I always had the comfort of knowing the answers are always in the room.

44:11Collin Henderson: And then what I also wanted to do is I also wanted to limit my audience. Now I'm a faithful person, so I would say an audience of one. And when I'm communicating with somebody, I just don't want to disappoint God. For me, that's my thing. I say, I don't want to disappoint God. And so it's so freeing when I'm in a conversation where I'm presenting and that's my audience, it's an easy thing. When the audience is a thousand people looking at me, judging what I'm going to say and the innuendo, and I was always afraid of saying something stupid or saying something inappropriate. And you know how that and take off in a crowd and, you know, create laughter and blah, blah, blah.

44:52Collin Henderson: But the simple things, based upon the story that you guys were just discussing, nobody cares. Nobody cares. You know, there's an old saying, I don't want to, there's a billion of, a billion of X population could give a damn. My father used to say that to me. And it's really, really powerful because, you know, it really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. You think it matters way more than they do.

45:19Matt Farris: And I've found in the areas of influence, because if you listen to this podcast, you're looking for, you know, how do I influence? How do I lead? How do I sell? How do I connect? And what I found is the person with nothing to prove has the most power.

45:38Collin Henderson: Very good. So good.

45:40Matt Farris: because if you have a commission breath, if you're seeking validation from someone else's opinion, if you need approval, you're going to conform. And I have Romans 12 too, tattered right here. Don't conform to the patterns of this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. But part of that renewal is understanding that you're going to have some self-doubt. You're going to have some uncertainty. And when things are not clear, the brain creates stories. So it's that empowerment of like recognizing and then reconditioning, rewiring, going to your truth, going to your values, going to what I teach people to have anchor statements.

46:28Sean, you just verbalized out loud an anchor statement that, you know, of that thousand people, like no one cares or however you worded it.

46:35Matt Farris: Like, you know, there's answers in the room. Like that was an anchoring thought to get your mind from that inner critic, that self-doubt. So if four out of five thoughts are negative and researched by Dr. Valerie Young, seven out of 10 adults suffer from imposter syndrome. It's normal. That's what I'm trying to get across to everybody. It's absolutely, it'd be weird if you did not, it'd be dangerous if you didn't have some self-doubt and some uncertainty. You know, you'd be making some dumb decisions that would put you in dangerous scenarios.

47:05Collin Henderson: Well, you're saying it so head on for me right now because the people that don't have it, they're the worst sellers, Johnny. People that don't have the doubt, that don't have the restraint, that don't have the inner reflection, that just are with no filter, they just talk. They're the worst sellers.

47:25Matt Farris: Yeah, because they're afraid, they have to be the loudest person. They have to prove to themselves and others because they lack that conviction. And they lack that understanding. Another wisdom gem I learned from Dr. Valerie Young is people follow confidence over competence. So you don't have to have the right answer. But if your posture, voice and tone, pace, you're not too, what the kids call these days, too thirsty. Like you're not too thirsty. You're able to just slow down. and and jmac like you said to be present and and to connect and i i think you know what a great let's just transition to an osmethod strategy to help lower fear lower stress connect better let's kind of maybe land the plane here and give something but i think there's value in just awareness is the cure a lot of times because if you're not aware you can't fix you can't change you can't find the pattern so a lot of times awareness is a cure but because i'm more coach oriented.

48:27Matt Farris: I'm less, you know, esoteric academic. You know, I, I went back to get a second master's degree in sport and performance, you know, in this, in this space, you know, psychology. And I was like, I don't think the curriculum designers ever been in a locker room or boardroom because nothing I'm learning here is transferable to, you know, speaking with a multimillion dollar conversation. It's very academic driven versus like real world. So I want to make this really real world and really useful for y 'all. What I found to lower stress, to lower fear in selling environments is kind of what we talked about.

49:11Matt Farris: It's not about me. So my three-step influence system, step one is to connect with curiosity. You know how freeing it is to not have to prove to not have to, hello, my baby, hello, my darling, to do a dog and pony show of bells and whistles of your messaging and pricing. But to take my intention is to have empathy. My intention is to understand. My intention is to hear clearly. You know how freeing that is, is that you don't have to perform. Your only job is to connect before you correct. Context before content. There's something so freeing that you don't have to put on a show. Your first step of influence is having empathy and curiosity.

50:02Matt Farris: Connect with curiosity. Because when you do that, I love this thought from Mary Poppins, well begun is half done. If you can gather the right insight, the goals, the challenges, where they're headed, where they've been, they're literally giving you the answers to the test. They're literally giving you everything you need. But because we're so insecure, we have to show what we know. We're showing up and throwing up. There's this verbal vomit. Now the listener is turned off. They don't feel connected. They don't feel seen. So wouldn't you agree that it's kind of freeing that you don't have to perform your first step of behavior change in others is to connect before correct?

50:47Matt Farris: Should we do another visual? Yeah. Yeah, sure.

50:51Collin Henderson: Okay. You can do the other two steps, though, too, right?

50:55Matt Farris: I know. I'm still on step one. You're still on step one. Just want to make sure for the audience. So step one.

51:01Collin Henderson: Backwise around the box. So the top of the box is 12. The right-hand side of the box is a three. The bottom is a six. And the left-hand side of the box is a nine.

51:09Matt Farris: Okay. So three likes this because it's the same visual. But watch this. Okay. So if you're at the bottom and you're six and you're looking up at that box, what image do you see inside the box? Here at the bottom. The three. You see a three, correct. Now, if you're in the nine vantage point, what do you see in that box? Three. You see an M. I see an M. Okay, right. Yeah. But how many times I'm a six, I'm going into a conversation, and I can only see a three because my home office training, my limited experience in my role, I'm just projecting my vantage point without moving over here and getting really curious before I can persuade, before I can change your mind, I need to see what's in your mind first.

51:59Matt Farris: So a three would see a W, a 12 would see an E. So if your desire really is to change behavior, if your desire is to sell, if your desire is to lead and persuade, oh my gosh, you're projecting your small pinhole of a worldview before you really see where they've been, what they're doing now, what their goals are, what their challenge is. So before you can convince, you need to connect. I love that. But that's the starting point. Before I can think you can change, I have to get into your mind first. Because remember, go back to mindset. Mindset is a conditioned set of beliefs that drive behavior.

52:49Matt Farris: And it takes some time to unravel, unwind that worldview, that vantage point before you can see mine. So before I vomit my limited worldview, I need to see and understand your worldview. Now, an example of this, in the 1800s, there was a hospital, I believe, in Vienna that the mothers and babies were dying at an alarming rate. They're getting infections. Like there was a window of several years where the babies and moms were all dying and the hospital was freaking out. Like no one's going to want to come to our hospital. And they tried to change these procedures in the birthing room, the birthing suite, and nothing was happening.

53:31Matt Farris: They had a new hospital kind of director, and he was like, all right, I got to just go from start to finish. What's happening? He followed the physicians where they were coming from to the birth wing. Guess where they were coming from?

53:49Collin Henderson: Bathroom. They weren't washing their hands.

53:51Matt Farris: The morgue. They were working with cadavers and bringing death and infection and bacteria without gloves, without washing his hands. into the birth suite he's like you're right cap yeah uh y 'all y 'all you need to wash your hands before you you know or there had to be a level of understanding right and giving that backstory of understanding where they came from what's happened before they could influence change now when they wash hands like birth birth rates and went way up and deaths dropped so that's just an example of like all right i need to slow it down and they need to understand where you're coming from.

54:30Collin Henderson: You know, there's such a good point here. Johnny and I had a guest on. I can't remember who said it, but it's so powerful. And with the gong calls and everything that we have now with transcripts, we can actually assess, were we trying to be interesting or interested?

54:55Collin Henderson: and there's a huge correlation between the sellers that appear interested and are interested versus the ones that are trying to be interesting and continually trying to be interesting in a conversation and i thought it's just a subtle play on words but it's it really stuck with me yeah and this is from old dead friendship

55:16Matt Farris: Voltaire, don't judge a person by their answers, judge them by their questions. That's wisdom. Think influence, behavior change. The right question is more powerful than your own answer. And I just look at when I assess, you know, I was a national sales trainer. I would manage five states. There are so many aggressive, selfish sellers. What does that acronym spell?

55:42Collin Henderson: Yeah, ass.

55:43Matt Farris: You're an ass. Yeah.

55:46Collin Henderson: But you know, that's interesting too, because at the end of any interview that I've done, I ask them, what questions do you have for me? And to your point, their questions tell me everything I need to know about the homework they did, how curious they are, deep thinkers they are, all of that stuff tells me so much about that.

56:07Matt Farris: And I can do a whole day seminar on curiosity and asking the right questions. But if there's maybe three just slam dunk, you have to ask these questions. Now, there's a level of depth you have to get to to get there. It may not happen on the first call, but I found what I call the growth inverse. Growth inverse. Your height will mirror your depth. This is a law of nature. Your height, think of trees, think of buildings. Your height, your connection, your reach is going to mirror your depth. So if you're staying surface level, just the basic stuff. Think about like you're with your father or a child.

56:57Matt Farris: If you're not deeply connected to them, you don't have longevity. You don't have trust. You don't have loyalty. So if you're not willing to go deep, your depth will mirror your height. Your height will mirror your depth. So if you're not willing to go deep to seek vulnerability, the facts, honesty, their first answer is bullshit. Because you haven't gotten in there to really earn their trust to get to that real truth. So it's going to take some time. It's going to take a lot of vulnerability. It's going to take a lot of patience. But you think throwing shit on the wall is going to work? It's not.

57:31Matt Farris: This is called targeted coaching, targeted influence. My last stop in pharmaceuticals was in oncology. Instead of chemotherapy just destroying your entire body, there's now cell therapy, targeted therapy. They're literally going right to the cell. And it takes some diagnostic work to get to the right mix of medicines therapeutically to get to that cell versus destroying everything. So I think a lot of us, man, be a professional. Don't be an amateur. Be a professional. Get the right insight exactly what they're experiencing. Now, the skill is they're not going to give it to you right away. That's the skill because there's so many people in our industry that have diminished trust that are selfish sellers.

58:21So you kind of have to earn that trust and unthaw what they've been conditioned to believe about you and about this industry.

58:29Collin Henderson: Totally.

58:29Matt Farris: So there's some nuance there. Now, the second step. We got the first one. That's a good one. That's a power. That's pretty well.

58:37Collin Henderson: Really good.

58:38Matt Farris: So again, I want to simplify. My job as a consultant coach is my passion is to study, study, study, study. Research, research, research. Find the patterns and simplify them so we can scale them across an entire industry. We can scale it commercially. We can sell as an enterprise tech sales team. I got you. But this applies to parenting. This applies to you and your bestie or your boo want to pick a restaurant. It doesn't matter what we're talking about. This is influence. So the second step, once you've connected with curiosity, you've gathered a few core fundamental things is why are you doing what you're doing?

59:20Matt Farris: What's your goal for this endeavor? What's your goal? What do you want? Do you truly know what they want or do you projecting what they want? And then what are some challenges you're facing in there? What are some challenges? And then before you transition to step two, I'd love to just ask this question to anybody. In that curiosity phase, before we get to step two, is a great collaborative question to ask once you've uncovered a goal and a challenge. Is you pause for a moment, just to let it kind of marinate a little bit, you know, just slow it down. And then you lean in. All right, sounds like your goal is this and your obstacle is this.

59:56Then the money question is, what are you doing for that? and you shut the F up and let them just unpack, you know,

1:00:07Matt Farris: what they're currently doing to achieve, how they're measured, how they're ranked, how they're evaluated, what their revenue goals are, what, you know, because I think we're projecting our like comp plan. Now I got to sell X amount of, but they have, they're evaluated by something too, you know, they're human beings. So like, how are you measured? How are you evaluated? What are your goals? Well, what are things impeding your ability to achieve how you're evaluating and then makes them the hero, not you. Well, what are you doing for that? And then that just completely shifts the energy and you get to listen to what they're doing.

1:00:38Matt Farris: And then a good follow-up is, well, how's that working? Or areas like you want to fix that one. And then just get your foot in the door. I think a big miss in sales is they try to get it all. Just get your foot in the door. Just have a reason to come back. Have a reason to be seen as a collaborator, not someone who's trying to convince. Now, once you've gathered that, you've earned the right to get to the second level, which is to clarify with story. And you cannot tell the right story unless you get the answers you need to choose the right adventure to pick the right example, whether it's a social proof, whether it's a client very similar to theirs, whether it's our own internal story.

1:01:26Matt Farris: But have you ever played Mad Libs ever? I think you have kids or, you know, folks, Mad Libs is a game where above there is like some verbs, some adverbs, some pronouns, some, you know, different words that you just randomly pick. And then there's a story underneath it. And then you plug and play the words into the story and it's usually funny. The reason why you connect first is you gather their goals, their challenges, where they grew up, where they went to school, what's important to them. then you utilize those words, those examples to flow that into the right story.

1:02:05Collin Henderson: And when you tell your point is when you're telling a story, their story has to be in your story, correct?

1:02:13Matt Farris: Yes. One of my favorite storytelling teachers is Donald Miller. His name is Donald Miller. He has a company in a book called The Story Brand. He says in influence and sales, they're the hero, not you. Yeah. They're the hero, not you. So there are three dimensions of influence. Dimension one is talking about yourself. Dimension two is knowing the market. Dimension three, the most vivid experiential way of communicating is you're using their words and their lived experiences as part of that story. 100%. The reason why maybe if you tell your company's story, it's not as impactful because they don't relate to it.

1:02:54Collin Henderson: And in curiosity, Colin, I wrote something down that I want the listeners to take away, is that you have to get somebody to participate in that process. The only way to get somebody to, and I call it participating in your own rescue. The only way you can get a customer to participate in their own rescue is to ask them real live examples of their experiences with what you're talking about. So have you ever had trouble with, you know, latency and blah, blah, blah? The customer says, yes, you're not learning anything. So you, you know, I don't know what the percentage is, but let's say 70 % of the sellers will say, okay, they got problems with latency.

1:03:35Collin Henderson: And I'm building my, now I'm going to get my story because I'm going to talk to them about challenges with latency and security or what have you. But I'm not getting any of their story. That's where you get it in the curiosity phase. So I have to ask the follow-up, can you give me an example? Tell me about a time when. And I think we're going to, for sure, I want you to continue. But just know this, everybody listening, Colin, we're going to have you back. And I think we could grab some of these, Johnny, like just curiosity itself since we talk about it so much. And maybe get your thinking there.

1:04:10Collin Henderson: But keep going. If I'm listening, I'm inviting Colin to my sales kickoff in January. 100%.

1:04:17Matt Farris: Well, I also, I want to, cause I know we got to wrap things up, but so step one is connect with curiosity, but that's just being a good human. Yeah. And it's like, I can't do my job effectively unless I know some things about you. So this is, I don't want this to be 20 questions. Like you feel like I'm creepy. I really value this relationship and I, I can't build the house of your dreams unless I know what you want. I, I can't, so I'm not going to guess, stop being a mind reader, stop projecting, be present and, and tailor the offer to, to their, their, their lived experience. So research by psychologists at Stanford, Dr.

1:04:57Matt Farris: Jennifer Acker, she found this is a mic drop stat. That when you attach a story to a statistic, it's 22 times more memorable. Yeah. There's a podcast. That was great. Hope you had a good time. So it's kind of like, man, if facts tell stories sell, you know, Jesus used parables. I mean, you can go across history and like, how do you take something complex and make it simple? Use a story. Story helps things be more simple. They help what I call simulation. The listener can simulate their emotions, their experiences as if they're in that environment. But the third one is the story tongue is the strongest to memory.

1:05:47Matt Farris: To memory. I call this the spouse test. After you had a presentation, a selling conversation, eight hours went by, they go home, have dinner with their spouse. What did you learn today? You've implanted exactly what you want them to know and do because it's through a story and it's memorable and there's emotion. The laws of influence are ethos, pathos, logos. Ethos is the person credible. Pathos is their emotion. And then last one, ethos is, is this credible? So pathos is credibility. No, hold on. Ethos is credibility. Ethos is credibility. Pathos is emotion. Logos is logic, logic. And of the three, the strongest is emotion.

1:06:26Matt Farris: Now, the third step, once we've clarified, once we've compelled and gathered some information, curiosity, because we care. I'm curious because I care, honestly. And then once I've gathered that, I'm going to use storytelling. I can quote lots of research on it. Like stories are going to be the most powerful way to get inside the mind to make it sticky and memorable. But the third step is to collaborate on a needs-based solution. so you're asked you know and says well did you close them like that no one wants to be closed people don't like to be sold but they love to buy so once you've got you know the their needs their background their goals whatever they're going through their challenges really it's challenged people buy problems versus solutions so you got to get to that problem first and then what's the story in our archive that you've learned that you've gathered that you're going to pick the right, be a story collector, story hunter, weave their experience and their goals within what we provide.

1:07:25Matt Farris: And one of the two most powerful words of storytelling are imagining you. And that gets to that collaborative place where you collaborate on a needs-based solution. The offer is tailored to their goal and their problem. This sounds so simple, guys. This sounds so simple when I explain it like this, but we don't operate that way. We make it so complicated. And in that collaborative space, make the next step so simple and so easy. It's not more fuel. It's less friction. A confused buyer doesn't buy. Complexity is the enemy to execution. But let's make sure that when we do that ask or advance that call to do a free trial or do a deep dive discover, whatever you want to do, let's make sure that the ask is tailored to a specific problem or a goal that they have.

1:08:16Matt Farris: so the next time you face, or when you're this again, let's do this. So then you get to lead them in that process, but you get to collaborate with them in that process, man, we have the same end user. Like we are, we're on the same team. I'm not your adversary. I'm your partner.

1:08:33Collin Henderson: Yes.

1:08:34Matt Farris: We're going to collaborate. Powerful, powerful, powerful.

1:08:39Collin Henderson: Colin, you got to come back, dude. Will you come back?

1:08:42Matt Farris: Yeah, I do. but I got to go pick the kids up at the school bus. So yeah, so I do have to go.

1:08:47Collin Henderson: We have on this podcast over 600 ,000 unique listeners and I'm sure people are listening and typically sales kickoffs happen and a lot of these tech companies now end their year in January but I got to believe a lot of people are listening and they want you to come and be their keynote speaker. How do we get a hold of you, brother? We got to talk about how we get a hold of you.

1:09:09Matt Farris: Yeah, I would say easiest is Instagram and LinkedIn at Colin Henderson. Two L's. My website is thecolinhenderson.com. But I think just an easy win right now is to keep listening to this amazing podcast with these great humans who love and serve. That's why they're doing it because they're trying to, you know, I feel like going back to my origin story is that was for this. we've all been through some challenges some hardships and that was for the work that we're doing we wouldn't have this curiosity this passion uh if we didn't go through some hardships now we're going to transfer our pain into your power and victory goes to the vulnerable so if you can do one thing and just say yes to yourself is go to amazon check out the oz method the oz that's a classic story that, you know, Dorothy and the Scarecrow, Tim Man, Lion, those are all characters that represent a different trait that you need to adopt and learn to create behavior change and to help people achieve their goals.

1:10:13Matt Farris: That's the whole journey. They're a team helping them achieve their goals. There's no fighting. It's collaboration. It's courage. It's teamwork. So you can listen to it on Spotify and Audible. So that would be just a great place just to learn. And I've had some amazing global companies getting so much great feedback, so much great case studies. One leader told me for a Fortune 100 company, this is a sales leader's Bible. So I was like, oh my gosh, that is awesome. And we've also gotten feedback on sales record revenue by using this process that we're sharing. So super, super grateful.

1:10:50Collin Henderson: Thank you, Colin Henderson. Amazing. Thank you, John Kaplan. Thanks to everyone for listening to another episode of the Revenue Builders podcast.