The SNL Lesson on Talent and Fit with Lindsay Shookus

0:10Welcome to the Revenue Builders podcast hosted by John Kaplan and John McMahon. Today we're joined by Lindsay Shookus, a four-time Emmy award-winning producer who spent 20 years at Saturday Night Live, including 10 years as a producer. In this clip, Lindsay shares what SNL taught her about talent fit, team dynamics, and performance under pressure. She explains why talented people can thrive in one environment and struggle in another, how leaders create the conditions for people to take risks, and why the best performers often succeed by trusting the team around them instead of trying to carry the whole room.

0:42For revenue leaders, this conversation gets to the heart of hiring, onboarding, and managing high-performing teams. Talent matters. With the right environment, the right support, and the right role clarity, determine whether that talent can actually perform. Let's dive in.

1:01Any examples of, because it happens, like people that get missed, they didn't make it at SNL, but then they went off and they did great things. There's a lot of stories like that. There's people that didn't get hired at SNL. And just talk a little bit about your observation of that. Was there anything missed or was it just underdeveloped or potential hadn't been realized yet? Do you have a good example of that without alienating anybody? I mean, I'm trying like, you know, the first show that comes to mind is the show Hacks with Gene Smart that's on. It's I think just just ended. But two of the people, Paul Downs, who created the show and was on the show a little bit.

1:42And also Hannah Einbinder, they both auditioned for SNL, you know, and they both were funny. They just didn't get hired. Or there were people who were put on the show and didn't like skyrocket to the top, but now are doing very well. Like, you know, there are people like Casey Wilson, who's done so well since she left. There's a guy named John Rudnitsky. Like there's people who have like come and like struggled a little bit to like get their footing and maybe only made it a season or two. Tim Robinson is another one who was a cast member on SNL for a year. And he just is like he's all over Netflix.

2:21I mean, he's just done so well. So so it's not necessarily like I said, I go back to if you are hired at SNL, you are funny. It's just a matter of like, can we figure out how to make it all work with all the different dynamics and all the different players? Well, in sales too, like for us, it doesn't mean that you can't sell. It doesn't mean that you're not going to be successful. It's sometimes what happens is, is that there's a fit, like a cultural fit. And it's not a negative. It's like, you know, what will give people energy and what we just had a, we're just recruiting somebody. It just came out of a meeting.

2:55And I said to the hiring team, I said, you keep in mind, I know we all love this person, but you are going to have to spend an extra amount of energy to make them feel at their very best. And are you guys up for that? And it was kind of cool because they opted in. But I've seen when groups opt out, and it didn't mean that person was a bad person. It just meant it's not going to work on our rhythm. Yeah, it's like a lot of times in our companies, because we do startups and then grow them really fast, Lindsay. It's like sometimes people are good at a different stage. This company has a different culture.

3:32And you can actually see that this individual is never going to fit in with this team dynamics. And that doesn't mean, like, to your point, that those writers or actors were bad at that point. It's just that they might not have fit in those team dynamics with that team. They might fit with another team, but not this one. Well, also, I mean, at one of the companies that I do coaching for now, I've seen it where like they were right two years ago. And then as the company's grown and expanded and become, you know, more successful, bigger, you know, kind of more in the corporate wheel, like maybe they don't fit as well as they did two weeks ago or two years ago.

4:08And we have to make a change now. And to go back to something you just said, John, about the opting in, that's an important part because a lot of times, very rarely do people feel like they're given that opt-in. Kind of like what I said, the permission, right? Yeah. And so then it makes you like, you're like, yeah, you have incentive and ownership in trying to make this person great. And it's so, as leaders, to do that is such a great call because it gets everyone united. and we should all do that more when we hire new people. And when you said what Lauren Michaels did was make everybody know each other, it probably gave more confidence for a writer to have more confidence to go to a guest and say, hey man, I wrote this like just for you and I think if you did it this way, it would be, but it's gotta be authentic.

5:00In our business, we have technical engineers and we have sellers and we have, you know, you speak when you're supposed to speak and you do this when you stay in your lane type thing. And I think when you probably have under that leadership condition of everybody knows and trusts each other, there's going to be more opportunity to take really, really, then people are going to trust it. It's authentic. Well, I mean, like, I'm sure you guys have seen like, you know, things are always better when, when people feel safe enough to take risk and innovate and do something they wouldn't maybe do. And that's, you know, that's top down, you've got to feel supported.

5:33And I think that is, you know, that's across the board. That's definitely not just an SNL thing. That is, that is, you know, in business, right? You have to, the more you feel safe to either speak up about something that might go wrong or take a risk that's an innovation, the better all of us are. But, you know, it's when you, when I think back to my time at the show, you know, listen, it's like, I was a talent person. So, you know, I was good at talent. So sometimes, you know, a shy writer might come to me and be like, do you think so-and-so might do my sketch? And I was always, again, Lauren would be like, get the talent in the room together, even if they're scared, because it's like, no one's going to sell their vision better than the person who made it.

6:13Like, even though like I'm good at, like I could go in and talk to Elon Musk and I can talk to whoever, put me in the room with whoever it is. I was okay. It's like, yeah, but that's not my thing. Right. And so I can sit there and I support them, but I would as much as I could get the like visionary in the room because they're going to sell it with passion. And when they were doing these acts, do you think the best people rely more on their confidence and their swagger or on really prepping? I don't think anyone ever became like the best host ever because they were like super prepared. um i i think you know i really believe that the best hosts were ones that yes they they weren't super um they didn't feel like they had something to prove maybe that's a huge thing you know like if you are if you're comfortable like i remember thinking like peyton manning peyton manning hosted in 2007 um right after the colts when they won the super bowl it was peyton manning's 30th birthday At that point, he was not known for any kind of comedy.

7:15He was pretty dry. People, you know, people didn't think he had something for. Yeah, I remember it. Pretty strange. Yeah, I remember it. It was amazing. And I always tell the joke about how at like 11.15 on that Saturday night, I looked at him and I was like, I can't believe it. I was 27. So I was still young. And I said, I'm like, are you nervous? And he's like, well, Lindsay, I'm pretty used to performing under pressure on live national television. So I think I'll be okay. but like honestly like that you know where you're like he did he had a job like he's like i don't need to be great at this and and because there was not this pressure to be the best he he could like sit back and find the joy i thought i would always tell hosts before before they would go on is like this is like a life moment like you've you've already earned the spot to be here so don't like don't let it all get weighed down in this like well it's got to be perfect it's not meant to be perfect.

8:08If it was, we'd film it and we'd take three weeks. Like the people who did the best to answer your question, John, the people who did the best were the ones who had fun. Like we're like, God, they're really having fun doing it. You know, sometimes comedians could really have a hard time because they felt so much more pressure to be the best, right? Like I'm a comedian. I remember Dave Chappelle, when he came on the show for the first time, he was, he really wanted to be great. So there was a lot of pressure on his shoulders. He hadn't been on television in 10 years. And he was like, I gotta be fantastic.

8:40And that's, that's hard. That's a lot of weight. You're bringing up, you're bringing up such a great point, Lindsay, and like high performing teams, which we've either been a part of, or, or we're a part of one now, or we long to be a part of, it doesn't matter. Like, you know what that feels like, but what you just said, like when you encouraged like great leaders, I have found, and I remember playing sports where somebody was like, to me, like, don't try to put yourself in the center of everything. Like, you don't, there's really good, I went to PTC when Johnny hired me at PTC. And I, I thought that, you know, I was compensating for, I wasn't very technical.

9:23It was an engineering software. And so I was trying to insert myself into everything and like show what I could do because I had some insecurities about not being very relevant. And it was kind of like I had a conversation with John and I won't, I'll have to clean it up with the expletives that he said to me. But it was basically like, you know, you know, we don't need you to carry the, carry the room. Like we hired you to come do this. You'll get a chance to carry the room when you, but we don't need you to do that right now. And the feeling of being surrounded by really great people and then the pressure to do your job, like, okay, I got to do my job really well it was almost like uh amazing it was like and you know like peyton manning probably said i just know i gotta be peyton manning and you guys are gonna help me be a little bit funnier and a little bit more relevant or whatever but i'm just gonna go be peyton manning and i that's a great leadership lesson i think because you can crush people when they think

10:18Lindsay Shookus: they got the whole team on their back yeah they get too much pressure Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you enjoy the content, please subscribe, rate, and review the show to help us reach more people. This show is brought to you by Force Management, where we help companies improve sales performance, executing the growth strategy at the point of sale. Check out forcemanagement.com for more information.