37: Interest Rate Work-Arounds for 2024

0:01Long day? Late night? Love putting on your makeup but hate taking it off? There's really no better feeling than coming home, getting comfy, and removing your makeup with Garnier Waterproof Micellar Water. It easily removes even stubborn waterproof mascara. None of that harsh rubbing needed, and you don't even have to rinse afterwards. It leaves skin cleansed, refreshed, and never dry. Head to Amazon to shop Garnier Waterproof Micellar Water now. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Rich Habits Podcast, a top three business podcast on Spotify. My name is Austin Hankwitz, and I'm joined by my co-host Robert Croak.

0:37Robert is a seasoned entrepreneur in his 50s with more than 200 million in company exits under his belt, and I'm an entrepreneur in my late 20s with a background in finance and economics. Since quitting my full-time job in corporate finance a few years ago, I've built a seven-figure media business and actively advise some of the most well-known fintech companies around the world. As the show name might suggest, every episode we talk about rich habits as they relate to business, finance, and mindset. However, we try and bring you two unique perspectives, one from an industry veteran, which is Robert, and the other, myself, someone who's still in the process of learning, building wealth, and figuring it all out.

1:18Robert, what are we going to be talking about in today's episode? Today's episode of the Rich Habits Podcast, we'll be talking about how interest rates impact every part of your buying power and financial life. There's a quote by Warren Buffett that I really like, and it goes like this. The value of every business, the value of every farm, the value of every apartment, the value of any economic asset is 100 % sensitive to interest rates. Think about what that means for a second. The value of every economic asset, the value of real estate, they're all tied to interest rates. So in this episode, we're going to share the three best tips of how you can thrive even in a high interest rate environment.

2:02So follow along, please take notes and understand we're going to break it down for you so you all can thrive in what we consider these tough times right now and really figure this all out. So here's the first way that higher interest rates are impacting you. Higher interest rates now mean higher yields on your savings. Check this out. So let's rewind now to 2020 when the Federal Reserve cut interest rates to nearly zero in efforts to help boost the economy. When interest rates are low, the everyday person isn't able to generate any sort of yield on their cash savings. I don't know if y 'all remember this, but you could go type in high yield savings account back in 2020 or 2021 and they were paying like 1%, right?

2:44Or one and a half percent. That's nothing. Today, it's the absolute opposite. Interest rates are hovering around this five and a half percent range, which means high yield savings accounts are paying about five percent plus on your cash savings. Now, this isn't something we've been able to benefit from as the everyday American for literally a decade now. So definitely make sure you're taking advantage of this and here's how. We talk about having that emergency fund, call it three to six months of expenses, parked in either a high yield savings account on Wealthfront or inside of treasury bills, T-bills on public.com by simply making sure that that three to six months of savings is sitting in the right account and it's not sitting in your checking or sitting in some cash in your vault, in your basement or something crazy, right?

3:28You can now start to earn$500 per year extra in interest on your money, assuming you have a$10 ,000 emergency fund. So making sure you have your money parked in the right account can be the difference between inflation eating away at my buying power and I'm earning hundreds, if not thousands more per year on my savings. That is a great way to put this. And, you know, we talk about this constantly and it may seem like a broken record to many of the listeners out there. But really, velocity of your money is what's most important. You need to have all of your money accounted for and not just sitting idly in a savings account making nothing because you're going backwards.

4:12We always say that if your money is not making money and it's not working as hard for you as you work to get it, then you're going backwards and you're not going to get to your financial retirement goals. So just make sure you're always having your money accounted for through that budget, through that debt to income ratio and understanding what you can put away each month, even in tough times and having that velocity of your money. OK, number two, borrowing is more expensive, but there are workarounds. We all know higher interest rates mean paying more and more on your debt. This includes car loans, mortgages, HELOCs, personal loans and everything in between.

4:48And just so we're all on the same page, the reason why higher interest rates cause us to pay more and more for our debt is because it's now increasingly more and more expensive to borrow money. Y 'all remember in 2021 when interest rates were near zero and everyone and their mothers went out to buy new cars. That's because we were paying nearly nothing for the debt. Interest rates on cars then were like 2%, which is insane. Today's interest rates on cars are closer to 10 % and sometimes higher on new cars, which means you're paying$6 ,000 per year just in interest on that$60 ,000 Toyota you love.

5:25That's an extra$500 per month added to your payment on top of the principle alone. Loan. Unbelievable to me to think that just because some guy with glasses named Jerome Powell wants to change interest rates that the everyday American now has to pay if they want to go out and buy that car, that$60 ,000 car at that 10 % interest, have to pay now$500 more per month on their monthly car payment. It's unbelievable. And actually, we heard from Elon Musk in his Tesla earnings call, I think it was last week, he talked about how higher interest rates are really eating into how well they're able to push through and sell their cars because now these monthly payments have gone from$400,$500,$600 to$900,$1 ,000,$1 ,200 for the exact same car, all because Jerome Powell has increased interest rates.

6:18So it's hitting us all. We understand that. But Robert, I think you got some workarounds. So walk us through a couple of workarounds here. Love to, love to. So let's say you're shopping for a house right now. Interest rates are through the roof at 8%, 9%. You could look to find a deal using owner financing, which is also referred to as subject to. Here's what that means for those of you that have never heard this. So it's subject to, meaning it's subject to the approval and the ability to assume that loan. So what you want to do is find a distressed buyer who currently has a low interest loan.

6:50Work out a deal with them to assume that mortgage, which means you're just taking over the payments. You're taking over the mortgage. You're owning the house, but you're not transferring the mortgage per se or going back to the bank. You're transferring the mortgage they already have in place. And the key here and kind of the pro tip to understand if you're out looking for this subject to type mortgage is that there's only three types of mortgages that qualify. The FHA, the USDA, and the VA loan. So no matter what the fake gurus tell you out there, not all loans are assumable. So just make sure you're looking for those three types of mortgages because they are assumable.

7:30And then you could find yourself getting into a mortgage right now at two and a half, three, 4 % interest, which is so beneficial for you finding those distressed deals and being able to implement this strategy. I love it. I think it's great for everyone to really research this and get involved in how this could work. I've never heard of this. Seems like I should have done this when I bought my house recently. Does this just apply to mortgages? Can I do this with other types of loans? I'm talking like car loans or like any other boat loans. Is this just mortgages? No. Similar to mortgages, it's all about the lender.

8:08If you're looking to say you want to buy a car and you have a friend that has lost their job, They have a car payment that's too high. You love the car. You want to get into a car now that it's used and you can save on that depreciation, but also get that low interest loan. There are car loans that are also assumable in this same fashion. For instance, Capital One does that for car loans and boat loans. So great question, because at the end of the day, you know, one person's problem might be your windfall and it's not necessarily a bad thing. You're helping someone out in their car or their home if they can't afford it anymore or they're in distress.

8:47And it's a way for you to get a really good interest rate and be able to work further towards your financial goals and save money for yourself rather than going out and paying these egregious interest rates right now. So I actually have an anecdote to share here. I've been picking up Facebook a little bit more. I've been browsing on the book of face, right? I think it might be just because I'm getting older. I now browse Facebook, which is kind of embarrassing to admit. But anyway, I've seen a lot of people in my like Facebook friend network selling their cars. This brand new car I bought two years ago, I can't afford the payment anymore.

9:24Obviously, we know like unemployment's ticking up a little bit. Inflation is still here, right? All these things are definitely still impacting the middle class, which makes sense as to now why this person might not be able to afford that car anymore. So if you're browsing your Facebook and you see Uncle Larry is trying to sell his 2022 Tahoe on Facebook Marketplace or you're browsing Facebook Marketplace to look for some sort of used car for anything, right? any reason, check out and see if you can maybe assume just the existing loan, right? Because I mean, think about it. If this person bought the car two years ago, Robert, their interest rate's probably two, three, maybe 4 % at the highest.

10:00Compare that now to the 8%, 9%, 10%, 11 % interest rate that we're going to see anyone kind of get out there at the credit unions or any other ways to borrow money at the moment. So that could definitely help a lot as it relates to your payment, assuming that that payment is still at a decent kind of range there that's within your budget. But I think that's a really good way to think about it. I never thought that you could assume loans of any stretch of the imagination, mortgages, cars, boats. I think that's a really, really good workaround for people who are trying to acquire a new sort of asset, quote unquote, and they simply can't because of interest rates.

10:34And one of the keys here is to really understand that your interest is saving the money from paying that 8 % or 9 % or 10 % on a new car and getting that used car for maybe 2%, 3%. But also what you can do to add another layer to this deal, you don't necessarily have to take the deal as it stands just because of the benefits of assuming the loan. You can also ask them to participate because what you're going to do, you find this deal. Uncle Bill down the street's like, I really got to get out of this car. It's a car you could really use. you really want to own it. But what you want to do is you want to check the value.

11:10What is the main across the value, you know, across the board value on that vehicle? And let's say Uncle Bill or Bill down the street has negative equity on that vehicle. You can say to Bill, hey, you owe 32. Right now, Kelly, Blue Book, Carvana, all of them value this car at$27 ,000. So I'm going to take this off your hands and get you out of the distress. But I want you to participate by paying back 5 ,000. So then that way you're getting the car for a great price, but also getting the great interest rate. Because what you don't want to do is just look at the interest rate and then pay too much for the car, because then you're going to be taking on that negative equity.

11:49And that's something we want to try and avoid here. So I think the timing for something like this is really good. And like Austin alluded to, there's just so many good ways to make money and save money during a high interest period in our economy. That's got to be an Instagram clip, dude. That was a really good callout. I did not think about the negative equity aspect, man. That was, geez. See, this is why we got the veteran and the rookie talking, trying to figure this stuff out, asking the questions. I love it, man. Okay, before we jump into number three, let's take a quick break. All right.

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12:58I just give my stylist my size, style, and budget preferences. I order boxes when I want and how I want. No subscription required. And he sends just for me pieces, plus outfit recommendations and styling tips. I keep what works and send back the rest. It's so easy. Make style easy. Get started today at stitchfix.com slash Spotify. That's stitchfix.com slash Spotify. So our third way that high interest rates are impacting you right now is the stock market. in your portfolio, right? So let's talk about this because I don't think a lot of our listeners quite understand this one. As an investor, now let's say you're investing into Apple, for example, right?

13:37Apple iPhones. As an investor, you always need to be aware and cognizant of the next best thing. Now for every investor out there, the next best thing is the risk-free interest that you can earn on your money. That is through treasury bills. We talk about that on public.com all the time. You can literally take your entire portfolio if you wanted, cash it out and put all that money into treasury bills and earn a guaranteed 5.5 % on your money. So knowing that you can earn 5.5 % on your money, that should be the baseline, right? As every investor, it's like, okay, I can earn at least 5.5%. It's going to be completely risk-free because the government's never going to default, fingers crossed, and all's going to be well.

14:18So if you're investing into Apple and Apple's profits for next year of 2024 are expected to rise by 8%. Therefore, their stock price theoretically should also rise by about 8 % in value because businesses are sort of valued by how much profit they're creating. So if you think about it like that, you're only generating an extra potential 2.5 % return on your investment compared to that 5.5 % risk-free rate. So now the question is, what kind of risk are you taking for that potential extra two and a half percent return on your portfolio? The answer is a lot, right? What if the new iPhone isn't what customers expected?

14:56What if their employees want to have a strike? What if their new MacBooks aren't powerful enough, right? There are so many risks that come with investing into companies. And if the potential upside isn't there, then the market is going to discount the stock price to account for that risk. And we saw this happen in 2022. The Federal Reserve was raising interest rates at the fastest pace in history, and the stock market crashed, right? It was down 22 % or something last year because it had no idea how to price anything now with interest rates rising so quickly, trying to predict what the risk-free rate is going to be.

15:30Now, interest rates have been more tame. They aren't rising by 75 basis points every month, and we're likely not going to continue to rise by 25, 50, 75 basis points per month into the future. So we've seen the markets cool down, become a lot more tame, and rise a modest 5, 10 % this year. Now, we're hoping for that continued relief of 2024. But now that we all have this sort of understanding, Robert, I want to hear from you now. What are the tips on how people can begin optimizing their portfolios with high interest rates in mind? This is a great section, and I hope everyone is following along and taking notes on this because it just means the difference between sitting idly on the sidelines and actually thriving in a tough market.

16:13And so for me, our best tips, the Rich Habits team are always going to be to dollar cost average. We scream this to the mountaintops every single day. We've been doing it forever. And this is so, so important to dollar cost average. Make sure you read up on it. Make sure you fully understand it because it takes out the need for you to try and time the market and missing out on so many great returns. Secondly, I would say automate your investing to take the emotion out of the equation. Once you automate, make sure you have that velocity on your money and it is already earmarked every single month.

16:49You know where it's going. It's spoken for. It's not just sitting in your accounts and you don't know what to do or you're haphazardly taking stabs at when you should invest or somebody tells you this stock or this fund or whatever it is or this crypto. You're automating it. That way you've got a plan every single month. I think that is one of the most important. And number three is to optimize for portfolio income. This could help smooth out the big swings in volatility with all of our portfolios. Think the SPYI ETF or even writing covered calls yourself. You know what Austin and I have been talking about that a lot.

17:25And he generated nearly$3 ,500 in additional income for his portfolio just by writing covered calls on his Tesla stocks. So there are a lot of ways here for us to really be profitable and thrive during these high interest times. And finally, just have the perspective. The stock market, the cryptocurrency market, every single market moves up and down over time, but has always shown to recover and continue to trend higher by about 8 to 10 percent per year. So please, please don't have knee jerk reactions based on a downturn in the market of 5 percent. When you see something on the news, it says gloom and doom.

18:05Remember, all of this news, all of this clickbaity information you're going to hear and see on a daily basis all has a purpose. And trust me, it's not your best interest of being that purpose. So just try to understand that your investment goals should be long term and that the markets always recover. As long as you display rich habits, you are consistent and you execute on your plan, you will always thrive. I couldn't have said it better myself, right? Dollar cost average. Automate your investments so you're not emotionally excited or sad and despair. And so you want to sell or buy or whatever.

18:43Like just take emotion out of it. Dollar cost average. Automate those investments. Optimizing for income. To Robert's point here, yes, I've generated nearly$3 ,500 in income, right? So think more money added to my portfolio because of investments already in my portfolio using the covered call strategy that I've done with Tesla now for the last two months. We are working on a webinar. It's going to be completely free. We're going to have a bunch of people join and it's going to be great. It's going to be mid-November, mid to late November. I think Robert is what we're going to do here, but we're going to teach you all what I've done, everything and how you can do it in your own portfolio.

19:17So stay tuned for that. But to Robert's point too, have some perspective. Markets go up, markets go down. Markets go in circles. They go left and right. They zig, they zag. Having perspective and knowing that if you zoom out and you can see that over the long term, they tend to go up by 8 % to 10 % per year on average over a long period of time. And keeping that perspective can really keep you grounded in times of euphoria as well as in times of despair. So just keep all that in mind. Yes, that is amazing. I love that takeaway. Thank you. Now, before we jump into our question and answer, let's have a quick word from our sponsor.

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21:22The equity securities purchased by the funds may involve large price swings and potential for loss. A fund's income may decline when yields fall. Fixed income securities will decline in value because of an increase in interest rates. And the funds may use derivative instruments to seek income, which involves risks. different from, or possibly greater than, the risks associated with investing directly into securities and other traditional investments. With that being said, let's jump in to the question and answer segment. And I also want to remind people, don't forget to email us, right? All of these questions are going to be pulled from our email from this episode, richhabitspodcast at gmail.com.

22:00I know there's been a ton of people that have emailed us and we're trying our best to get back. We've got about 100 questions sitting in our email inbox that we're working toward getting back to, but don't forget to send us an email. Now, our first question comes from Jorge C. Jorge says, at what age do you think children are old enough to start learning about money and money habits? I have a nine-year-old niece and I want to make sure she's moving in the right direction. Robert, you want to kick this one off? Sure, I would love it. What a great question. There are so many ways, ways to teach the youth of our society better financial habits early on, But I think starting out nine is plenty old enough because you can really introduce it in a simple way.

22:39Maybe you get the custodial Roth IRA set up for her, start investing in that a few dollars a month and show her what it's doing and how it works. but also just really talk and create situations where you can bring up money and finance and wealth building in a way that's simplified, that she can learn from that and take that into her teen years and then into adulthood. So I think it's really just all about you recognizing the importance of it, because many of us never had that handed down from family members. and once you institute these habits early on, I think they will carry out through her life.

23:18So I've got three points. One, I hope you're investing toward a 529 plan or some sort of similar plan as it relates to college saving to make sure that she's not just inundated with student loan debt. Two, I would imagine that as a nine-year-old, so I remember when I was a nine-year-old and a 10-year-old in that age range, I didn't know money. I didn't know anything about money. And so I don't think that money needs to be in the equation maybe until like high school, right? Maybe late middle school, early high school. So call it 13, 14, 15 when they're old enough to start getting that first job or thinking about saving for their first car or things of that nature.

23:56They're old enough to start babysitting maybe, right? Do those little odd jobs and start earning some income. And the last thing I'd like to share is that kids, especially 9, 10, 12, 15, 16 years old, are impressionable. And they absorb conversations that are around them in the household. So if mom and dad are fighting about money, you know, maybe it turns into a bad relationship with money for that child. And so I remember I had a couple friends growing up whose parents always did fight about money. And they ended up having unhealthy relationships with money after they started earning money out of college.

24:32And so I think at the end of the day, as long as you're trying to introduce money habits and money mindsets to this child, once they're able to now figure out the difference between trading time for money, right, working for that money. And now once you have that money, you're able to say, okay, you have this, you worked for it. Remember, you just spent all that time and energy working for it. What do you want to go spend it on? and if you don't want to spend it, let me teach you about this thing called saving or things like that, right? That is how I think I would kind of approach that situation.

25:03Love it. Our next question comes from Philip C. Oh, this is a good one, Robert. Philip says, I have a condo on a 15-year, 1.9 % fixed interest rate. I still owe$120 ,000 on the mortgage and it praises for$245 ,000. I want to take out the equity to invest in more real estate. Do I do a cash out refi Or do I do a HELOC? HELOC. HELOC. HELOC. HELOC. This is a great question. And I think you understand the sentiment on this side of the screen. And that is, you have such a tremendous fixed interest rate. You should never, ever, ever do a cash out refi or as long as you can hold on to that rate and not pay it down.