Achieving Results: Todd Davis on the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Leadership

0:00What I have found around is once everyone understands the mission of your company, it's easier to get them excited and highly engaged in doing whatever part they have to move that mission forward. This is Right About Now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over 6 years and over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping necks and cashing checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up guys? Welcome to Right About Now. Now, we're always talking about what's important.

0:41Now, hey, you know we're always right, too. Well, at least our guests can be. I don't know if I'm always right, but I've always got an opinion. And, you know, here's what I know. There are some things that are tried and true, and I really like effectiveness. I love it because I own business. I love for me to be effective. I like for my listeners to be effective because that's us helping you. And that's why I've got Leadership Consultant. And he's been a part of a book and a guide and coaching. You've probably heard of this. The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He is Todd Davis. What's up, Todd?

1:17Hey, how are you, Ryan? Thank you for the invitation. Yes. Hey, I like effectiveness. I mean, anybody that's been with the company as long as you have has to know a thing or two about that, if nothing else, right? Exactly. Exactly. I'm not perfect, Adam, but I at least have the instruction manual. I know if we all, you know, well, what do they say? But doctors sometimes have the worst health habits. But, you know, but something tells me you've got as being, you know, the chief people officer for the number of years that you've been or were. and now, you know, leadership consulting, you know, I'm sure you apply a lot of what you teach, if I had to guess.

2:04I do. I do. Seven habits of highly effective people. I think myself, I'm 47 and I think our audience, we skew, we have it all over the 25 to 50, you know, skews male. I think if you're anywhere in the last, in, in my range or around there, that book rings familiar, if not been on the reading list. I mean, it's just, it's really stood the test of time, hasn't it, Todd? It really has. It was Dr. Stephen R. Covey wrote the book about 35 years ago. It has sold over 40 million copies to date and continues to sell thousands of copies every month. And I had just real quick here, I had an interesting experience.

2:48two weeks ago I was in another state and working with a client and a gentleman came up to me after and said his, and this gentleman was probably mid-50s, said his son who had just graduated college in Portland called him the night before and said very seriously, hey dad, I just read the greatest book I'm going to send it to you. It's called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And we both started laughing because to your point, the book's been around forever, but This young college grad was just finding it so empowering and so useful today. And so, yeah, it's a timeless classic, if you will, because it's based on principles of effectiveness.

3:24Yes, exactly. And I do think in a world where, you know, with YouTube, the proliferation of new media, we have all these tactics at hand, right? You know, there's all these things to do and lots of people coaching what to do. but it's, you can do a lot of things and not be effective. It's a, it's a really key component because I think sometimes we get in the, in the tactics habit and the check in the box, but it's like, what was the outcome of all those tactics? That's what I've always loved about the book is the effectiveness. So true. I like to explain it as it's the, if you, if you visualize the compass over the clock is how we get effectiveness.

4:12In other words, yes, important to get a lot of things done and it's important to get things done within a timely manner. But what are the things we're getting done? Are we getting those things that are really going to move our lives or the lives of our team or our organization forward? And so it's the compass first, you know, the direction we're headed over the clock. Clock's important. Got to get, you know, got to have deadlines, but let's make sure we're heading in the right direction first. And that's, that's how I think of and how we define effectiveness at Franklin Covey. I think, I think, you know, sometimes numbers get glossed over.

4:49I can be guilty of this, a hundred thousand of this, 50 ,000, that 40 million. So, I mean, go, go get a room with a hundred or 200 people and like, look around and remind yourself how many people that is. and then think about 40 million. What an accomplishment. Yeah. It's another quick story, just because it's happened in the last couple of weeks. We are just launching, you know, we update the content or the course, not the book itself. We don't change how many habits there are, but the application of those, we update in the courses we teach about every 10 years and we just launched our new Reimagined Seven Habits and I was in another city in a hotel delivering an overview of it.

5:32And this woman who is, her name is Sylvia, a worker in the hotel, she came up when she learned we were from Franklin Covey. And she said, I'll be right back. And I thought, okay, did we not pay our bill last time we were here? What's going on? And then she came back with a Spanish version of The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And it had been weathered and used up. And she carried it around in her purse. And she went on for, I'll tell you, 10 minutes telling us, my colleague and I, how this book had changed her life and how she led her family with it and how it helped her in her career.

6:02And it was just it was inspiring. I almost thought I was being set up for a minute. It was so inspiring. I'm sure. And I know there's probably countless stories of people, you know, and, you know, I've seen some on your website doing research for this, you know, this interview and reminding myself, you know, of even some of those tenants. But Todd, let's set the table, you know, as we get into the here and the now. But talk about me. You've been with Franklin Covey, what, 35 plus years? No, not quite. I'm starting my 29th year. But still, almost 30 years with Franklin Covey. You know, maybe talk about the trajectory of your career and how it just has paralleled with everything that's happened.

6:47Yeah, you bet. Thanks for asking that. So I was in the medical industry for many years. I was in a recruiting role. I recruited physicians and medical personnel for about 10 years. and then some friends and I formed a small human resource outsourcing group so we would contract with companies out here in Utah where I live to provide their human resource services now I didn't have human resource experience but I had recruiting experience and then we had another friend who had done employment law who was an attorney we had another friend who had done benefits and so we would contract and what was then called the Covey Leadership Center was one of our clients and so I would recruit for them and find them consultants and and salespeople and things like that and they said one day hey we want to bring recruiting in-house and i thought and i had recently read the seven habits highly effective people this was like 30 you know 30 years ago and i thought well dang i think i might want to look into that so i joined cubby leadership center as their recruiter or their recruitment manager and then we long story short we merged with franklin quest which was the beginnings of the Franklin Day Planner that some people might remember your parents having or whatever.

7:56And we merged those two companies about 28 years ago, 27 years ago, which became Franklin Covey. And I was in various positions and then, shorten this up, our CEO came to me about 20 years ago and the head of people services or human resources had left, said, we'd like you to apply for this position. And I said, well, that's great. I don't have any HR background I've recruited but that's he said I know we think you're really good with people and so they didn't give me the position but they had me apply and I applied with several candidates and I was really honored to be selected and and so I surrounded myself with really talented HR people and and for 18 years ran the the human resource structure of the company and then the last couple years now I've been out teaching others how to implement all of these things that I had seen work so well for our clients and for our department and for other clients that I've worked with.

8:48You know, we'll talk and I want to dig into, you know, how seven habits is what stayed the same was changed. Like you said, the application, but you know, I'd love to get your perspective, chief people officer, you know, like to me, that's an interesting people. I hear that term now and I think they know, you know, like the, I'll just call you since you're a man, you know, the king of HR. In some ways, you know, and so to frame, I love the marketing spin we've put on all the titles as a marketer. But at the end of the day, what has that position been like for you? Like what what makes you a people person?

9:32And what I don't know what's been like your guiding principle in making that successful? Yeah, that is great. That's great context. I mean, you should do this for a living, Ryan. You're really good.

9:48So a few years ago, when I was still in the chief people officer role, one of our publishers, Simon Schuster, who published Seven Habits, they thought it would be a really cool idea to have the chief people officer of the people company write a book. So I wrote a book, became a bestseller, not because anybody knows who Todd Davis is, but because this topic was so profound, and it's the question you asked. The book is called Get Better, 15 Proven Practices to Build Effective Relationships at Work. And my whole premise in the years that I had almost two decades experience as the chief people officer was that as Jim Collins, the leadership guru, says you've got to have the right people on the bus.

10:25That's true. But it's actually – or and, I should say, not but. And it's actually the nature of the relationships between those people that makes teams and organizations effective. And so in my role as chief people officer and anybody who's head of their human resource function, I view this as you're more or less, sorry for the sports analogy, but you're more or less the quarterback of the culture. Everybody, it takes everyone to form the culture, but you're the person who really reminds people, helps to set the vision for where you want the culture to go, including what we call things. You know, like you said, we can put a marketing spin on things, but I was adamant that we not call it human resources, that we call it people services, because I wanted the team that I led to be reminded every day as they came to work, they were in the business of serving the people at FranklinCovey.

11:15Their clients were all of our associates. And then I wanted the world to be chief people, because I wanted to be the grand poobah, but because I wanted to remind myself, is this about the people? Sometimes people equate the term human resources with kind of the policy wonks or the necessary evil we have to have to keep all the human resource laws and guidances and all that. And those things are important, but it's really about partnering with your team, your colleagues to move or grow the business and be, as you started out, be effective in what you're doing. Yeah, and it is supremely important.

11:50And, you know, one question I want to have for you, Ty, that it may not be expected, and I, but because I want to transition to kind of, you know, back to the effective, we'll get into all, but it's, when I think about a chief people officer and me being, you know, CEO and owner of multiple companies. Right. I see what's sort of happened, and I've seen interesting comments from even like top Google executives. Like the pendulum – like if you own a – when you own a company, you serve clients, right? But when you have a company, you need your people and you need to serve them to help you serve the clients.

12:34and I've seen even a few of the executives that have come out that said maybe it swung too far to serving the people versus the client and talk to me about the balance of those two things and I think it was through the lens of things that happened with COVID the work from home the not work from home the benefits the nap pods to use like a google thing you know where you want to take care of your people. You know, you have to take care of your people, but at the end of the day, we got to serve the client or we don't have no people. You're exactly right. No, I couldn't agree more. But coming from sitting in your shoes though, I can understand the delicate balance of those things.

13:14And maybe it's just a broad question, you know, your perspective on that pendulum. Yeah, no, I appreciate the question. I think you, I think you just nailed it. And so in my experience, What I have viewed is that first and foremost deciding what, you know, you've had that many companies. What is the mission of that organization? What is the mission of your organization? I think it starts there. Is it worthy? Are we doing something that's adding value to the client, to the world, to our society? And most companies are. I haven't met a company that isn't. But it's then refining that mission statement and that mission and vision for the company so that our associates, these employees that we want to serve as well, that they're as excited and as on board as you are as the CEO or as the leader.

14:08So what I have found around is once everyone understands the mission of your company, you still have to do a lot of other things, but it's easier to get them excited and highly engaged in doing whatever part they have to move that mission forward. And so it really isn't – doesn't become, in my experience, a question for the leader of do I serve the client, do we focus on the client, or do we focus on our employees? No, we are all focusing on the client because our employees are so excited to know, hey, I'm a piece of this. Whatever I do, I see how it links to that bigger mission of the company, and so I make a difference.

14:44And when leaders can focus on communicating to their associates their worth and potential so clearly that they come to see it themselves, then we have one focus, and that's serving the client. But my team and the associates know they are a critical component of that, and they find value in that. They find excitement in that. And, yes, they have to be paid well, and they have to have the right working conditions and have the right benefits. But their incentive and their motivation is to be a part of something that matters. Yeah, I think that is a big part of it. And I think that clarity, because I've even known and had a lot of moments where that wasn't clear enough.

15:23And that's been ineffective. And I see it, know it. I guess just to close the book on that question, Todd, would be like what you said is absolutely right. What do you make of those that say, though the pendulum swung too far? You know, like what what do you think has triggered that? Because I have sensed not what's really about my own organization. We have a small company like I'm not saying this didn't exist or something, but just what I see, what I hear is, you know, it's like maybe the employees feel like what can the company do for me versus what can I do for the client? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so I guess just to close the book on that, I just love your perspective.

16:14No, I think that's a great question, and I know what I'm going to suggest takes time, but this is what we work with our clients with, and I've seen it produce amazing results over and over again. We have a client or a situation where in their minds the pendulum has shrunk too far, and they've got a group of people, good people, that are more focused on what's in it for me than what I need to do to serve. It's taking the time to understand those people. It's moving as a leader. It's moving your mindset from, I bet, I bet they just want an increase because they've been given awards their whole life and they're this, you know, small little, whatever, to I wonder.

16:49I wonder why they're, I wonder why they're not more engaged in the business that we do and the work that we do. I wonder why they're not more inspired. And so it's taking the time and a lot of leaders, I won't say don't like this answer, but they realize, okay, I've got to slow down and I get, I've got to get to know my people. What's important to you, Jim? What's important to you, Sam? What's important to you? What motivates you? And honestly, if I talk to a Jen or a Sam and they say, all I care about is money, make money, well, they're probably not the person for my team. Because I want to find out what part of what we do excites them and make sure that they understand how critical they are to that.

17:27So I'm kind of going back to what I said a minute ago. But when the pendulum is way over there, to your point, I think you've got to slow down. Dr. Covey used to say with people fast and slow and slow is fast, take time, understand what excites them, what motivates them, what energizes them about the business. And then make sure that they have enough of that going on so that they feel this ongoing connection with the work that you're all trying to do to move your organization forward. Yep. And I think that's fair. And I do. I love the it's actually very tactical advice of the mindset of figuring not making assumptions and that that one little trigger of, you know, not making the assumption.

18:11But if you presume something, you tend to make it true. You know, presumptions are effective for one thing, and that's, you know, verifying what you already think, but not necessarily getting to the bottom of something. That is what you just shared. That is the foundation for the seven habits. Before we even get into the habits, we talk about our paradigms or our mindsets. And if I, for example, if I'm a micromanager, okay, everybody can write to that. They've either been a letter, they've worked for one. But if I'm a micromanager, how do I see my team? We call this the see, do, get model. If I'm a micromanager, I see my team as incompetent.

18:51And to your point, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I see my team as incompetent, well then what do I do? I do everything myself or I hover over and criticize everything they do. And if that's what I do, what kind of results do we get? well we get pretty poor mediocre results at best and then what do I say to myself as the micromanager see they are incompetent I got to micromanage even more and to your point it just becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy of what I'm seeing versus if I see people as capable and talented well then what do I do well then I take time to get to know them and what's important to them and what inspires them how do I motivate them and make sure that they connect with our larger mission and then it goes on and we get greater results so sorry I'm passionate about I love C.

19:35Do. Get. I'm going to that will stick with me. I remember different frameworks, you know, like certain things, but I will. The SDG will be with me. So big, so big. Yeah, yeah.

19:55Talking with Todd Davis, he is. Let's just call him the forever chief people officer. but he's a senior leadership consultant. I don't know who the current chief people officer would say about that, but yes, thank you. Chief people guy is what we'll call him. Todd, talk to me about what you guys are up to now with Seven Habits, how it's evolved, the training, leadership, and all that, how you're working with people. Thank you. Well, the Seven Habits has been around for 35 years, like we mentioned, since Stephen first wrote about them, they are all based on principles of effectiveness. For example, how about one is to be proactive, and it's based on the principle of choice.

20:41You know, and going back to your see, do, get, you're never going to forget now. One way to see it is, hey, I can't predict how things are going to turn out, so I'm just going to kind of go with the flow. That's a common paradigm. But a more effective paradigm is, wait a minute, I can choose that I'm actually responsible for my own choices. So I can choose the life that I want. I can choose the career that I want. I can choose the outcome that I want. And I'm responsible for those choices. Now, there are a lot of things I don't have control over, but there are many things I can influence. And most importantly, we learn in this habit, I can choose my response to any situation.

21:12And that, I remember, Ryan, when I first read The Seven Habits 30 years ago, I can still see that sentence on the page. You can choose your response to any situation. In a world when there's so much we can't influence or control, to know that we can choose our response. So habit one's a habit for a reason because it's up to us to decide if we want to take control of our lives or if we want the outside world or influences to control our lives. And I don't go deep into each habit, but habits two and three work together with that. Habit two is begin with the end in mind. It's based on the principle of purpose.

21:46So if I'm going to take charge of my life, well, then what do I want to do with my life? And then habit three, put first things first, is based on the principle of focus. Okay? If I've decided what I'm going to do with my life, I've got to start prioritizing what do I got to do first, second, and third. And these first three habits surround what's called the private victory. It's where we become trustworthy. If you know people, and I'm sure you do, that take responsibility for their lives, they know where they're going, and they prioritize and focus on the most important things, they're pretty trustworthy people.

22:16And it helps move us to being independent. We're independent and ready now to collaborate with others. And that's where the next three habits come in. Habit four is to think win-win. It's a mindset based on the principle of abundance. Habit five is to seek first to understand. That's based on the principle of respect. And then habit six is to synergize based on the habit of creative collaboration. And those are where we build trust with others. And those move us to what we call interdependence. And then the seventh habit surrounding all those habits is habit seven, sharpen the saw, based on the principle of renewal.

22:50to where we take time to invest in ourselves. You're listeners that are taking time out of their busy schedules because they learn from Brian all the time. They're investing in themselves, not because they're selfish, but because by doing so, they can do that much more for everybody else. So that was the Reader's Digest condensed version of the seven habits. And each decade or so that we reimagine it, we won't change the habits or their principles, but the applications, we update them based on life's current situations. Sorry to take so much time, but that's the - No, that was perfect. And you know what it made me think?

23:20Todd, it was, you know, I'm on social media a lot and, you know, thinking like leadership coaches that I see and variations of quotes and principles. 80 percent of it has spun out of that book, I think, because and those top line thoughts. Now, now I'm not saying people are copycats. They've added their their sauce on top of it or whatever. But those core principles capture a lot of the overall sentiment of what drives sort of effective behavior. Well, you know, Ryan, that's a really good point. And they are copycats, but Stephen said he was a copycat. And let me clarify, Stephen made the point all the time, he did not invent the seven habits.

24:06what he did and i had the great honor of working with him for many years before he passed away about 12 years ago but he clarified what he did was he identified those people and those teams and those organizations that seem to continually be getting ahead in a good way getting the results they sought to get and he studied what they did on a consistent basis and then identified those principles that had always been at work, but that, you know, he just identified them, named them as habits and put them in a construct that we could talk about them and start to implement them in our lives. So he even made the comment that he didn't invent them.

24:44He discovered them. And so I think all of the iterations that different people use, they are, they are just yet different ways to look at these lifelong principles that will always be in effect. Yeah. And I just think, Like, I don't know. It's, you know, you can choose the response to any situation. I think it's so powerful. Like, all of those rank true, but I come back to that one because I think about myself at times. I think about, like, what I see. You know, like, we've empowered a lot of things but ourselves at times. And, you know, we give power, apply power when we don't realize that we get to choose.

25:26You know, whether you're biblical or not, believing in free will, you know, the power to choose. And I think we've conditioned, we've been conditioned or at times maybe that, you know, it's out of your control. But, man, it's in power. It's the way we empower people is for them to understand that statement. I couldn't agree more. I will be asked often in the leadership space we've been in for 40 years now. uh frankly he's been around for 40 years and i will be asked often so what habits are most critical for a leader well after saying all of them but for me if i had to riddle it down it would be habit one for all the reasons you just said coupled with habit five habit five is to seek first to understand then to be understood and it's and it's not just about being a nice person but it is truly and I'm sure you've experienced this I have so much greater influence not power but influence with someone if I take time to understand them first seek first to understand going back to the earlier example we talked about the pendulum being swung too far sometimes so first of all if I realize I have a choice okay I can tell myself I'm a busy CEO or busy I don't have time to meet with people or I can say well wait a minute people are my business our organization is made up of great people.

26:49So, all right, that's my choice. And now, how about five, I'm going to take time to sit down with Joe or Susan and say, Hey, tell me what's important to you and tell me why you do things this way or that way. And then really listen. Don't listen with the intent to reply. We teach this in Habit 5 because we are all programmed and you might be doing that right now. Maybe you're nodding and looking at me. You really think about what you're going to say. Next time, I'm teasing you. But that's how we that's how we all are we listen but we're already in most cases formulating a response and i don't think it comes from a bad place i think we're fixers we're helpers and so we hear just enough of the conversation to think oh i know what to say i know how to fix this i know how to help and the deepest need of the human heart is to feel understood dr kevy said that and i couldn't agree more the deepest need of the human heart is to feel understood so when you're truly trying to understand someone just suspend your opinion don't throw it away suspend your opinion long enough to just hear the other person really understand where they're coming from and leaders who do that they are they have so much more information now to help move their teams their organizations forward so habit one uh be proactive and then habit habit five seek first to understand And then to be understood, there's no stopping a leader who models those habits really well.