Pivoting in Business: How to Thrive Amidst Challenges Like a Pro with Bedros Keuilian

0:28This is the story of the one. What happens is entrepreneurs pivot. They just don't realize it because it happens slowly over time. You know, technology comes, marketing gets more sophisticated, consumers become more educated in the way they buy, and so businesses evolve in terms of transparency. This is Right About Now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over six years and over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping necks and cashing checks? Well, it starts right about now Talking to Bedros Killian, founder and CEO of Fit Body Camp Author of Man Up, How to Cut the Bullshit And Kick Ass in Business and Life Killian, my brother, what's up brother?

1:17What's happening? I'm doing well, I'm doing well, right? Thank you for having me, man, I appreciate the opportunity Yeah, man, pumped to have you We know a lot of the same people And, you know, I've been following you for a while Well, admire her from afar. You got to be pumped up all the time. Your book's awesome. I think you're a great inspiration for what we need in today's world. Motivation, positivity, but a little kick in the damn ass. You know, it ain't all sunshines and flowers and roses all day. That is true. That is true. What's going on in your world these days? Well, I've got to tell you, man, I'm just intrigued in watching the downfall of our great country and wondering when the most capable men who can exercise their voice will decide to actually stand up and be men and exercise their voice so that we can win back our country.

2:09It is the last free country, thanks to our constitution, but it is also being radically eroded away, pun intended. And so with that in mind, when are the men going to stand up? because in the you know one thing i always say and you asked this question it already triggered me so i'm just going to jump into this real quick is that if i were to see i come from a communist country i escaped the soviet union as a kid my dad was a member of of uh the the communist regime and his whole thing was we're going to go to a country that affords us freedom and opportunity so long as you serve that country and he said it's backed by this document called the constitution.

2:52Cool. So we escape in 1980, I was six years old and we come here. And in that time, we've seen the slow erosion of the constitution of our freedoms, of our liberties. And of course, of that first amendment, the freedom of speech, which is backed by the second amendment, the right to bear arms. And we're seeing a constant attack on that. And I share this with you because when our rights are being encroached and people think, well, someone else is going to go and do something about it. I'm sure someone else is working on it. That's what happened when, and during World War II, when Germany killed millions of Jews, everyone else thought that someone else would stop it.

3:31And so I'm just here to maybe message to people that we are that someone else. Yeah. I mean, we're, we're, we're just going to get hard and heavy, quick and fast. I'd spell a love about it. So where did this, where did it all start, man? And where did this erosion begin? I don't know where. There's this fine line with me personally where we can't all personally attack every single issue in life. And you can fight me on that. But I just have so many battles that I can fight. And we need to fight some battles and maybe fight some wars. Not too many battles. I don't know where the structure falls.

4:07And then there's the common sense that there's this erosion of the things that you're talking about and accepting things that shouldn't be accepted as Americans. I don't know where that started to fall, but I also don't know how many things can we take all at once. Am I just being a puss about that? Or how do you fight? Which battles do you fight? Yeah, well, you have kids. I'm sure you got kids, right? Yeah, I got four boys. There you go. So you got four boys. And so you know this with your boys, you have to pick and choose your battles. Yeah. If you can't battle everything. Like my son is 17 years old.

4:44Two years ago at 15, he said, he said, hey, mom, dad, I think I want to get my ears pierced. And apparently he had been working up to that for two weeks, thinking about how he's going to pitch us, et cetera. Now, I immediately was like, what do you want to get in your ears? He's like, just a couple of studs. I'm like, cool, done. I knew that wasn't a battle I'm willing to fight. Now, if he said, hey, mom and dad, I'm 15 and I want to get a back tattoo. that might be a battle i'm willing to fight so you're absolutely right bro in that we can't fight every battle just like in business we need singularity of focus if we want to accomplish the outcome and so there's a lot of small battles that are common sense battles like do i am i going to fight the battle of people's pronouns right now probably not like i can care less call yourself a bookshelf if you want but i will fight the battle of the erosion of the dollar i will fight the battle of the inflation that's taking place.

5:37I will want to fight the battle where we've got a commander in chief who I believe has some cognitive dysfunction. And we've all turned a blind eye to all of that. Those are all battles worth fighting. I will fight the battle of censorship of our first amendment. It's the first amendment for a reason. I will fight the battle of the erosion of our second amendment. So we do need singularity to be a focus. And then, You know, given Jocko Willink a shout out for his book, Extreme Ownership, he talks about prioritize and execute. So if those were the five or six big battles to fight to be able to save our country, like during the pandemic, man, I run a fitness franchise, Fit Body Boot Camp.

6:16You know, we had over 700 locations worldwide. And during the 10 months of 2020, we lost over 200 franchise locations. I had to pick and choose the battles I needed to fight to be able to save locations, to be able to save certain states that were more friendly to letting us run our gyms and, you know, maybe let others die. And you have to prioritize and execute. But it's not impossible. It's just we have to have that conversation as a nation. And until that happens, and I think it will, it just it's unfortunate that it has to get so bad. almost like um you know when someone's like an alcoholic in the family and they're crashing their cars they're getting arrested but it reaches a point where the whole family gets together they have that intervention i feel like we need to have a national intervention and i feel like we might be coming up to that sooner than later i think the only way we can get there is if we could somehow figure out that it's not a left and right decision this is a common sense american discussion you You know, like, like this isn't about right.

7:22This isn't about left. This is about fucking American rights and about the American way of being able to speak our minds, have freedom of speech, carry guns for what the Second Amendment is, you know. But everything is so fucking left and right. You can't. It's so polarizing. And so, like, you can't just have a fundamental discussion. And that's the shit that just drives me crazy. Yeah. Well, here's the thing on that, though. If you and I decided that we're going to team up and we're going to invade, oh, I don't know, let's say we're going to invade Canada. They're pretty laid back and chill. We might get that done.

7:59Right. We're fine. You and I are going to build this massive army and navy, and you and I are going to invade Canada and take over, and we're going to call it Ryan and Bedros land. And now, as you and I are planning over your kitchen table, we're probably going to go, all right, dude, are we worried about the elderly people of Canada? No, no, we're not. are we worried about the children of Canada to attack us and fight us back? No, not worried about them. Are we worried about the women? Are we worried about the, no, no, we're not about the we're worried. We're worried about the capable, able-bodied men.

8:28All right. So then before we go into Canada, what should we do? Well, Hey Ryan, why don't we take the next 15, 20 years and create an erosion of the fiber of masculinity, uh, create this dysfunction in men, weaken them, make them docile, make them dependent, confuse them, separate them by class, separate them by left and right, separate them by black and white, separate them by, by, you know, the jab or no jab, have so many elements that separate them so that they can't come together as a tribe, as an army to stand up against our opposition. And so it kind of seems like I'm not a tinfoil hat kind of guy, but it kind of seems like they've done a damn good job separating the country from left to right, to black and white to all those different things because when you do you don't have unity which is why we need to become a family again and have that intervention to get old cousin joe out of that seat yeah it's uh you read the art of war yeah you know whether a better better better strategy than what you just described you know it almost seems intentional right yeah yeah yeah exactly but But again, I'm not here to be political and all that stuff, man.

9:37I'm a free markets capitalist. I want to make a ton of money and do a lot of good with it. So I certainly want to keep the conversation positive. But we do need to have these conversations so people do start thinking for themselves and not being told how to think. And I think that's the takeaway, Bedros, right there. You know, for everybody listening, you know, we've gone heavy and hard right at it. But you need to hear this because you need to think for yourself and think clearly and not be leaned or pointed towards one direction because of popularity or whatever. You need to be convicted. And I think that's what it's about.

10:11I do want to give some props and some attention to your your background in history. Obviously, you can pick up your book and they can do enough Googling. I don't want to wear that out. And I think I think you're such a good storyteller. I think you're just having such an amazing foundation. I do want to do some justice to that for the audience. I'm talking a little bit about that story, building up one of the fastest growing franchises in the country. So let's talk a little bit about that background. Sure. So the background of how I came to that, it's it for the background of how I built the franchise.

10:45Yeah, let's start. Let's do justice to both of those. And I think that's an important story because about what we started down this path of the American way, the American country. I think your history is what matters in that foundational of really what sets your mind where it is. Yeah, yeah, I agree. So really, when you just imagine my dad, through the sky, he's 89 years old today, alive and well. And in his 40s, he came to the conclusion. Well, building up for that. But in the 40s, he decided that I'm going to pull the trigger and I'm going to escape the Soviet Union. So we're Armenian. Armenia was under Soviet control, Russian control.

11:26My dad was one of the 18 percent of the population that was actually a member of the Communist Party. So he was a card carry party member, communist party member. And people always go, well, my choice, right? Yeah. But if you said no, when they ask you to get party member, you're shipped off to Siberia and never to be heard from again. So long story short, this dude left a communist passport at home all the time. Never take it out with him. Never exercise his right to be able to question people and to be able to check businesses. All the businesses were run by the system. Everybody worked for the state.

12:00And so part of being a Communist Party member is you can do surprise inspections in the region that you're in. My dad was just like, hey, live with that thing. And he's the guy that wore Jordan Ash, wore Ray-Bans, listened to Elvis. He was full-on American. and so he decides that we're going to escape so he does a lot of side gigs collects about 25 ,000 rubles which is enough to bribe the people that needed to bribe to allow us to escape in Italy, 10 days into Italy and my dad always demands that I tell this part of the story exactly as it happened we went to the American consul in Italy we declared ourselves as political refugees we said we wanted to legally enter the United States and so after 10 days of pumping my dad for information after all come as a party member they entered us into the United States my dad chose California of all places because hey why not beautiful weather great geography you never have to see snow again and I love this state and I will stay in the state and for the much people shit on it you'll never find a better state and climate and geography I can guarantee you that I've traveled the entire world but anyway that said the difficulty said is this country offers some freedom and opportunity so long as you serve the people in it and find a solution to serve people good add value and so i just being the youngest of the family believe that wholeheartedly and decided that's what we're gonna do now i gotta tell you we grew up in sexuate housing which is government-assisted housing um my dad worked three or four jobs at any given time to be able to make enough money to pay for our shiftable apartments that we lived in.

13:39One of the times I got lice because the apartment that we lived in was so filthy, my mom had to have my dad siphon out gas loops in the parked car to wash my hair with gas and he continued to afford lice treatment. So I didn't speak English, I didn't understand the culture. All I did was add value to serve humanity. Add value to serve humanity. As I grew up, I just took a liking for fitness and decided that I was going to go into the personal training space and I wanted to help people transform their bodies and their minds. You know this, you're in great shape when you transform your body your mind follows you become more optimistic more positive more focused more disciplined mental toughness all those things confidence source and group i love seeing my clients do that so i get to ask myself how do i scale my personal training business thankfully one of my personal training clients this older gentleman jim branko uh very crude he was you'll never be able to scale unless you know how to sell to your affordable sales kid and I said Jim, I vetted a six month training program three times a week seven grand that you paid man I came in wanting a six month program three times a week you just took my order and no one had ever spoken to me that directly before because you're an order taker, not a salesperson and until you learn to sell, you're never going to grow and so really, cooking at her is a multi having a software company in the automotive industry and he brought me zig ziglar cassette tapes uh brian tracy books uh hopkins uh like i was introduced to all these sales people and i would listen to the cassette tapes i would read the books and i started to develop the skill of persuasion and influence sales overcoming objections before i knew it there was four or five six trainers working water me hundredly before i knew that he lost money eight percent an interest to open a buy-in little studio.

15:32That led to four more. That led to coaching and consulting gym owners. That led to starting this giant empire of their body group care. So as the housing market crashed back in 2008, I knew that one-on-one personal training was not going to be a thing anymore at that point. And so I had learned from Jim Franco that anytime there's a disaster, there's people capitalizing on a disaster. Like when the stock market crashes, housing market crash, anytime there's a disaster, not everyone loses their money. he taught me that money doesn't just go away it exchanges hands and the example he gave me was he goes even at the worst of economy you can see people driving mercedes land rovers rolls royces bentley's etc and so he goes you just have to find who's got the money and end up adding value to their life with that in mind housing market crashed in 2008 i knew people weren't going to be able to afford one-on-one expensive personal training so i said we can take that outdoor boot camp that personal trainers do outside group training, bring it indoors with equipment, a system, and legitimize it.

16:31I can create a franchise system where it's one trainer, many clients, and bring down the cost of personal training because it'll be a group environment, group personal training. That's how Fit Body Boot Camp was born. Within the first two years, we had hit 100 locations. And as we grew to 200, 300, 400, 500 locations worldwide and beyond, We were hitting the Inc. 5000 list, Entrepreneur 200 Fastest Morning Franchise lists. And what I had realized at that point is whenever there is a disaster, you can become a solution and therefore create a new product to serve humanity. And so that's how Fit Body Bootcamp grew.

17:10And through there, as we grew beyond 500 Fit Body Bootcamp locations and the average location has 300 to 500 paying clients, they'll pay about$249 a month. I realized, all right, what else do our clients need? So here's another great opportunity for entrepreneurs. It's like, all right, if you're serving people who are trying to get fit, lose weight, what else do they need? Well, they probably need supplements. They need protein. They need hydration supplements. They need something to help them with their immune system and inflammation. So I said, well, why not create a supplement line as well?

17:44So we created Truly, a supplement company that serves our clients throughout Fit Body Blue Cap locations worldwide. And here's the crazy thing about that. You fast forward all these years in 2020, when the pandemic took place and nobody was buying a gym franchise from me because everyone thought the gyms were, well, gyms were throwing gyms and restaurants took them in the shorts, you know that. And so, uh, it actually surprised me that in 2020, we actually sold six new franchise locations. And I was like, every time someone would buy one, um, and like, are you sure you're buying a franchise location for me right now?

18:17They go, yeah. You know, I'm not going to give you a refund that was very transparent at that point i'm doing sales because we had we had you know um we didn't have much we have a thin skeleton staff yeah and i said listen uh i know things will turn around with the economy when they do you're going to be in a good opportunity uh but just to give you some contrast we would normally before the pandemic we would sell six to eight new franchise locations per month and now all of 2020 sold six locations and so i was just grateful for those sakes because, you know, in that time, we also lost over 200 franchise locations.

18:51But here's a beautiful thing about it is when the pandemic happened and gyms had to shut down, our supplement company started to hockey stick. And our immune system product, because everybody was really into building their immune system, trying to fight off the virus, that thing went on Amazon and just started blowing up. So there's so much to be said about creating multiple income streams, because when one stream dries up, you've got another stream that might hockey stick. and really keep you afloat. And so I've had the good fortune, obviously, over the years to build many income streams by investing in companies, apparel companies, software, et cetera.

19:26But my two core companies, Fit Body Bootcamp, the international franchise, and Truline, thankfully continue to thrive. And they're in an industry where I love serving people, making them better, building their immune system, building their health and confidence. And so that's always the industries that I like to play in. Yep. Bedros, a lot to unpack there and really appreciate you going backwards. from the beginning. I mean, the biggest, you know, there's about 12 takeaways. Let me start with the first one. We talk about the American dream and we talk about the opportunities as Americans. Then, you know, I see a lot of people, they talk all the time about like how blessed you are, like to wake up if you're born in America and the opportunities that are at your feet, no matter like how bad it is, but you know, you're an immigrant, you were not born in America, but came over, had the opportunity, but saw the American dream and how you took it by the balls and, you know, like, have become what everybody wants to.

20:26Like, what, where is that? I don't know that it's been lost, but where did that, is it just hutzpah, is it nature or nurture? Like, I hear guys like you, Badras, that I just want to, like, you know, like, man hug and, like, high five, you know, I think in the best possible way, you know, and I'm like, but where does that come from? Is it nature or nurture? Like, is it just because you wanted it more? I don't know. When you when you when you've eaten out of dumpsters, when you live in Section 8 housing, had your hair washed with gasoline, when you've seen people yelling at your parents and telling them to go back to your own fucking country, you're taking our great American jobs.

21:03Which, by the way, my dad had a when we first came the first two years, had a newspaper route at 2 a.m. I don't think anybody wanted that job. And he was a busboy at a pizzeria. And then he pumped gas at an ARCO in the middle of the night. So that wasn't necessarily the great American dream that he was living, but he knew that the sacrifices we're going to make. But so I got to see a contrast. Right. And I really believe that if every American, when they turn like 18 years old, have to go and either go into the military to see the world and what real racism is, what real what real criminals, other countries, governments are.

21:41they would come back and they would love and defend this great country of ours so much because they wouldn't want it to change any road and if it's not the military then at least we should be made to go out and serve another country build a well build a school build homes build something in third world countries so that you can have a contrast when you come back you can appreciate it but if you grew up in a great country like this where you could literally have your face in your phone walking down a parking lot at 10 o 'clock at night feeling safe that you're not going to get mugged like come on that doesn't happen you go any you go to armenia bro you have your face in the phone someone's clubbing you over the head right now today and taking your shit and so i share that with you because i don't know if it's nature or nurture i think it's just a contrast because the american dream is not dead it's completely changed i think it's actually the barrier to the american dream and i think you'd agree with me is lower because today you've got you got the internet.

22:35So if I was broke, if I was broke when I had some bad, use my goofy little iPhone to create how to videos and put them on Instagram, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube and Facebook. And that would, the algorithm would help me build an audience. And then I would go get a free WordPress site and I'd make a sales page, a website. I'd use PayPal, which is free and I could take payments. And all of a sudden I've got now PayPal. I've got a list, social media. I've got a platform. I can that course and sell it like, or have a coaching program or maybe leverage some money for somebody and say, look, I'll do the sweating and you give me$30 ,000.

23:19I'm going to create a supplement line and we're going to sell it. Like the barrier is so much lower because you've got access to social media. You've got access to a free website. You can take money for free. What is happening though, is we've been conditioned to be comfortable. we are too everything is too convenient you can order on grubhub or doordash your burrito and watch it come down your neighborhood streets and people get huffy and puffy when it's stopped at a red light and you're just wondering where your burrito is motherfucker get out and buy your burrito go out and build a burrito make a burrito when you get so complacent and comfortable doing all this shit then why would you want to even make a free website make a how-to video people have just gotten so lazy they expect money to roll in but many years ago Tony Robbins said something I was sharing the stage with him at Joe Polish's event at uh the Genius Network event this was 2016 and he was clapping his big giant hands and I was getting mic'd up to speak next and I was very intimidated by Tony Robbins like how do you follow that giant event and he's clapping his big giant hands on stage and he goes winter is coming prepare for winter anybody can thrive in summer and spring, but winter is coming.

24:28You should be built for winter. And I was like, that motherfucker's right. Like we could all do great when the economy is thriving, but sometime the economy is going to shit, whether it's an act of war on our country, like in 2001, whether it's a pandemic, whether it's a stock market crash, housing market crash, winter will always come. And what's happening now, winter has come and it's getting colder and you're seeing people die literally and metaphorically, financially, emotionally, mentally, but it's going to be a thinning of the herd. And those of us that have what it takes are going to thrive out of this.

25:01I'm going to ask you a question. And it's not it has nothing to do with anything I thought I was going to ask you, but based on what you just answered. So the next thing I'm going to ask is is your ability to pivot. And I think people don't appreciate exactly what that means or the power of that, which you have a true strength in. I'm going to come back to that, but I'm going to seed that with you right now. as an immigrant and as being someone believes in American dreamers sees all that how do you where do you where do you fall in the open borders situation like is that a is that a nine is that a tough one for you or an easy one for you no that's an easy one for me man lock down the borders period yeah I came in legally I entered the country legally we did the paperwork that was necessary we entered legally and when you come to a country legally and you pay your dues and you're going to be paying taxes and putting into social security you are going to value the place more and no no never mind that and it's not to say that anyone comes in illegally isn't going to value it obviously people are risking their lives to cross the Rio Grande they're risking their lives to go over those walls walk through the desert I get it but also amongst those people are really bad dudes that are bringing in fentanyl really bad dudes that might be bringing in dirty bombs because I also have dear friends like Tim Kennedy and others who are great Americans, great patriots connected to the military and have a lot of access to information.

26:28And when I get to hear from them what they're catching at the border, I wonder what's not being caught that's coming in that's going to be a dirty bomb, more drugs or some kind of child abduction. Like what is going to happen? Because we're not vetting who's coming in. All I'm saying is let's bet who comes in. You would never let open your doors and just let strangers come into your party, would you? You'd have an imitation. Right. It's the same thing. Let's just bet people out. That's all. Ding, ding, ding. Listen, folks, you know, you have to have a system and process in place to know who's coming in your front door or your back door.

27:03And look, if there's not a condition for it to happen, then there needs to be because you got to be able to appreciate you got to understand our ways and cultures and values, you know? So boom, there it is for people that don't understand why there has to be some some protections there now let's talk about some business pivoting uh you know you talked for i don't know 15 minutes who knows how long it was doesn't matter and there you know all i heard this fucker knows how to pivot he knows and it is a skill because everybody gets so locked in this is my baby this is my business it's going nowhere no you got to pivot that shit and that's what you are brilliant at i see it i hear it you've done it in a million ways we even talked about some of your coaching stuff but talk to me about is it just smart how does this get back this nature versus nurture when I talk to guys that I like that are successful but tell me about pivoting because that's what you did you know like understanding and the nuance of what's happening so so in 2020 the the term pivot was just like overplayed right you saw on a fox news cnn and everybody was talking about pivoting and and people think that it was exclusive to 2020 2021 when you pivoted right You're the master pivoter.

28:12Group fitness, you said literally yourself, you were talking about it, and I don't know. I'm like, did it Scott coin group fitness? Because that is essentially what happened when personal training took a dive. It was group fitness. That became the word pivot in fitness, but that was it. And so what happens is most people pivot. They just don't – entrepreneurs pivot. They just don't realize it because it happens slowly over time. Like the one – technology comes, marketing gets more sophisticated. consumers become more educated in the way they buy. And so businesses evolve in terms of transparency, like Edmunds.com was created back in the day.

28:47And now you could see what the sticker price of a car is. And so there's more sophisticated buyers. And so dealerships have these little window stickers that said, Hey, this is our best price. We're going to offer you. We don't haggle no slimy sales guys, just buy it or not. Right. So things do slowly change. That is a pivot. It just happens slowly over time. And in 2020, I developed this little term here at our headquarters, I was like, guys, we either pivot or we perish. Everything was pivot or perish. Because when changes happen quickly, like on March 16th, 2020, I announced to all of our franchise locations, I said, guys, close down your locations for two weeks.

29:23We're all going to flatten the curve. Because all we knew at that time, Brian, was that this is some kind of a death virus, right? And so they said two weeks. But I come from a communist country and I've been taught to never trust big government. So while I said, we're going to shut down for two weeks, I also, when the video turned off, I turned to the CEO of my company, Bryce, and I said, Bryce, prepare to be shut down for a few months. And so let's start building online coaching models, workouts, videos, Facebook pages, YouTube, Facebook groups, et cetera, for all of our franchise locations.

29:53So that if this goes beyond two weeks, we can move all the clients online. Because I knew one thing we were not going to do, we were not going to shut down our franchise brand like Orange Theory did and say, well, sorry, figure it out. We're not going to charge you a franchise royalty. That means I have to fire all my employees. You might have to fire your employees. That's sad, man. So sure as shit, we went well beyond the two weeks. And so by week number four, we pivoted to online coaching. And all of those clients kept paying our franchise locations. Our franchise locations kept paying their royalties to us.

30:25So we were able to support them. And we just continued to pivot as we went, creating different coaching programs and models. And if you don't pivot, you will perish. Sometimes pivots happen slowly over time and sophistication. Other times a dramatic life event will force you to pivot. And if you don't, if all these motherfuckers take the wait and see approach, they end up dying, which is good for the rest of us because we take on more market share. Boom. Love it. What? What's the Bedros personal brand? When you hear that word, do you cringe when you hear personal brand? like it's become like a bad word you know like it's overplayed and look as a marketer and as a writer like and i've written you know can you hear me now like you know coming up with some some creative lines in my history i've struggled with what to call paid personal branding that's not personal brand because it's gotten such a bad rap but when i hear the bedros name like you know that's a personal brand like but what's your feeling on that so if you if you had asked me this 10 years ago i would have been like bro shut up you know like shut up i come from the dan Kennedy, Gary Halbert, direct response world.

31:32Right. And like, you know, you know, you're exactly shit. Do you say those names? I know exactly what that means. Yeah. And so like for me, and especially you're into direct response, if you were broke because you go, I got$1, I got to turn this up to$2. Like I can't put up a billboard like Coca-Cola or Gatorade and the bus bench and they go, well, you know, it's branding. And one of those billboards or bus benches are going to get me a client. I got to know, I got to hold every dollar accountable. So I grew up like locked on to direct response. And that was my Bible. But up until about five years ago, when I started watching what The Rock does, I'm also very observant.