The Power of Social Brand Experience & Collectibles: Superplastic Launches Dopeameme Institute

0:00Personally, I would love it if Toys was our smallest revenue channel, because it would mean we've succeeded as a brand to be able to make the core collector happy with the best stuff. but also make a business out of the other revenue that we have in our platform. This is Right About Now with Ryan Alford, a Radcast Network production. We are the number one business show on the planet with over 1 million downloads a month. Taking the BS out of business for over six years and over 400 episodes. You ready to start snapping necks and cashing checks? Well, it starts right about now. What's up, guys?

0:40Welcome to Right About Now. We're always getting right. We're always fucking now. So what's happening? We got Jennifer Van Dyke, Zach Sugarman. We're from Super Plastic. It's a badass media company, and we're going to talk about storytelling, the future of retail, and just, hey, you're in for a surprise today. What's up, guys? Hey, Ryan. Hey. What's cooking? So much. So much is cooking. We are cooking with Crisco right now. Just launched a new location in Vegas. Yeah, it's cooking. Yeah, man. You guys got your hands in a lot. And anybody named Super Plastic gets my attention. No doubt. I got to start there.

1:25Where did the name come from? I wish we had a better story for it. It was really quite a random combination that our founder, Paul Budnitz, created. he was the founder of Kid Robot. And when he was ready to start a new company, more character and IP driven, he wanted it to be super and somehow he landed on super plastic. Yeah. And I guess the obscurity sometimes with which names come from, you just never know. It's just, it just lands certain places. You guys get the name. What was it called? The something of Disney, the demented Disney, demented Disney. There we go. Yeah. I love it because we talked a little pre-episode and we're going to talk about some names and things like that.

2:12My head gets exactly where the space is. Sometimes words are powerful. Demented Disney. Yes. What makes it demented Disney ultimately? The reality is that we were born of TikTok and we were born of the Internet. our two main characters, Janky and Googiemon, are the ultimate schemers. Janky's sort of the lovable idiot. Googiemon is the, you know, semi-lovable and always interesting murderer. You know, and it's a combination for the ages that really just locked into the core of what Gen Z on TikTok wanted to see and wanted to be. And we have taken their storylines and their dynamics and grown their character galaxy in a way that has fuckery at the core.

3:05That's just who we are. You used the analogy earlier, the modern day Tom and Jerry. And if you go watch, if you remember, I remember like watching Tom and Jerry. I mean, constant fucking with one another. that's all it was

3:24and it's funny and that's exactly what this is you know and uh no matter what the adventure is and then they became playable skins in fortnight and the the audience really just took to it because they could actually now help create the fuckery yes i love it the uh i mean animation when I think back to the days of animation and the days now, how's it changed? I mean, I know that I'm leading the witness a little bit, but I just, I'm curious, you know, it was like a kid growing up and then all the stages though, I know it's changed, but I think for our audience, it'd be interesting to kind of hear just some of the evolution.

4:09For sure. I mean, you know, back in the original days, the stuff we probably watched as kids, a lot of it was hand painted, hand drawn, etc. So fast forward through into kind of where we sit today, we actually sit at a really interesting moment where animation is undergoing an incredible evolution. The sort of last couple decades have been dominated by very high-end professional tools, Maya, and those types of things. And they create beautiful professional level, you know, the mat or theatrical level animation that takes a lot of time and a lot of money. And then the emergence of the dominance of video game worlds, and especially massive multiplayer worlds, has started to push a new kind of animation from a different direction.

5:01And that's really based in platforms like Unreal Engine or Unity, things where you can actually world build, not just sort of character sketch, right? And these things are colliding in a really interesting way. Frankly, we're sitting right at the middle of it because we produce a lot of content in Maya and equally have a whole pipeline built on Unreal Engine where we can use our characters in those things. It gives us a different level of flexibility because the reality is you're publishing content now across so many different types of platforms that sometimes you need a little bit of both, the high end and, and the, you know, the sort of medium, but then we're sitting on this precipice of where it's going to go in AI.

5:44Um, that is, I think really, really exciting as well. Yeah. I definitely want to get down that AI road, but one thing to add on real quick, Ryan, like with the tech too, like into where Jen was going, like once you make a rig, a 3d rig of an animated character, you can then apply it to all these different places. So when we're thinking about our IP, while yes, it is predominantly TikTok, YouTube, content, Instagram, we are making things, you know, in Unreal for a Fortnite game. We can apply that in other areas as well. So when people want to consume in different ways now with new animation technology, you got that core rig setup that then allows you, and especially with AI, to then capitalize on creating a lot more outputs more frequently and easier and nimbler without having to like hand draw everything net new.

6:36So you really can kind of amortize an idea or spread out an idea or a piece of content across all these channels kind of once you get that core rig set up. Yeah. It's interesting because I think about, you know, I was going down the road of like the importing of the writing with animation and how smart the dialogue has gotten in, you know, the more in the talking animation shows. And then I was just thinking like Tom but Jerry, they didn't say a damn thing. It's storytelling, right? What's their voice sound like? Yeah. And I'm like, because I'm like, damn, it's the, the, the writing today is so clever on the best animations, including yours.

7:18And like, and, and, and the story arc. And I mean, when I talk about writing, I think of it, you know, being a creative guy, like I think through the, you know, what you're seeing and the script combined with the dialogue and all those things. I mean, maybe talk about that from you guys' perspective for how you bring stories to life. It's so true, though, the layeredness of it all. I mean, our characters actually garnered 22 million social followers never saying a word. And so they were Tom and Jerry in that way, right? Yep. And it was really in the development of our TV show with Amazon and in the development of our experiential that we've started to figure out, well, what do these guys sound like?

8:03And by the way, what would they say? And how does that add three more layers to it? And there is something very precious too about the voice of a character that I think we have the flexibility to play with. So for example, if you think Ren and Stimpy's voices, if you hear something that doesn't sound just like them, you feel, oh, that's a thing to come out. But for us, we have a little bit of the flexibility to play with what these characters may sound like. You know, again, the sort of are we are we messing with you or are we being serious? So we've been experimenting with a lot of different types of voice models and different things.

8:43And again, the ability to create these things cheaply and scalably. AI is a natural solution for us in a lot of that. but it just opens up six more levels when you start adding voice but you got to be funny then you got to be like extra funny different different uh threshold isn't it and it's so interesting because i think about a comment you just said jennifer like with the way it feels like stuff is scripted the best stuff today like with the way it draws the audience in is it's kind of like that wink and the nod, right? Like you're in on this, you know, we all know that we're rousing you a little bit, but you're in on it or, you know, or you're not right.

9:28It's kind of that interplay of, uh, letting you in, but are you really in, isn't it something like that? We believe in that deeply in every platform, right? I mean, we just published a, a TikTok post on that for Thanksgiving that was one of our better performing posts of the whole year. And like, if you know who our characters are, it's edgy, funny, but you get it. If you have no idea who our characters are, you might be like, what did I just watch? Right. So it is like, if you know, you know. Yeah, exactly. Zach being on the strategy end, uh, with the company, You know, what's your role? Yeah.

10:16So really my role kind of, you know, on the strategy side of things is looking at all the ways, you know, our fans and consumers kind of interact with the brand and then strategically thinking like, how can we serve them better? How can we do more of what's working? How can we bring in other partners that are missing to add a new element? how can we tweak things you know based on what we're seeing with our own fans but also what's in the marketplace and that kind of spans across the demented disney analogy so that's everything from our content and the channels to like product itself so we're known for our vinyl art toy figures behind me you know what are other ones that are going to resonate are there different ways of selling them you know live selling on the floor like a sports card collectible are there different partners from an individual artist or brand that are really going to excite our fans that we want to bring to the table?

11:07Are there different things that we haven't done before, such as like creating our own Fortnite map game, which we did back in the summer based on the popularity of our character skins as some new way we can engage our fans with our IP? And then from in real life, like with our experiential at Dopamine in Vegas, you know, again, what is going to keep fans happy? What's going to keep them coming back, talking about it with their friends? How can we take advantage of a physical space strategically, not just for people to interact, have fun and be experienced by product, but it's a third space venue in Vegas where there are major events going on all the time.

11:42So like, for example, like when F1 was there last weekend, you know, we did a deal with a brand partner. That's a big sponsor of one of the F1 racing teams to just host, you know, a hundred of their kind of VIPs at area 15 and dopamine, um, and have shut down the space, have them go through it themselves, get them a little swag bag and kind of entertain them there and give them that full white glove treatment. So it is across all of those um it's staying on the leading edge of kind of those trends so i'm also the the chief collector and the core nerd here who grew up collecting kid robot toys sports cards comics everything since the 90s um so i'll participate a lot directly in our fans and discord we got a live unboxing video with one of our influencers later in the week that i'll be doing too so i'm trying to just be the voice of the customer or listen to them but also look at all the data and the tea leaves and kind of see like what makes sense and the beauty about our company and with Jennifer and with Paul and kind of how we've set it up is you know I mean we literally talk about ourselves as a diventa Disney we say our style is fuckery so we want to have fun it's okay if it's not for everyone we want to do strategically what makes the most you know sense for us as a company and for those who get it and those being kind of our fans and those consumers.

12:56Yeah. I mean, you gotta cater to your fans. Like it can't be all things to all people, you know, the power of no. And it gets, it gets tricky. I'm sure Jennifer is CEO. Like you're looking at numbers, like there's probably temptations to get outside the box sometimes, you know, but it's like keeping that narrow path, right? It is. There's temptations all around that could really mess the business model, right? And at the same time, investors and everybody else demand growth and we want the IP to touch as many people as possible. So balancing those things is a really interesting opportunity. But like any audience today, no matter how big it is, it's really composed of segments of smaller audiences.

13:44And ours is a perfect plate in that sense, in that our big audience is actually composed of subgroups of people that are really into gaming, into art, into fashion and music, different parts of pop culture, not every part of pop culture, you know, but certain segments, adult comedy and anime fans even, you know, and that also, when you look at it as a grouping of smaller, you know, segmented audiences that have this beautiful Venn diagram of overlap. Then you start to add in geography, gender, age. At the core of it is a Gen Z or young millennial consumer that if you watch our content is equally split gender, male, female.

14:30If you buy our toys, you're probably more likely male, slightly, you know, slightly on the older side of Gen Z. But really what we try to do and what Zach does so brilliantly is help identify who we're speaking to with what angle, because our company can also at the same time be so many things. Smart. First word that came to mind. I get it. I'm eating it. I'm eating it for lunch, dinner, everything. As a marketer, as a brand guy, it's so smart. Talk to me about bringing personifying animated characters in a way. You know, like you've got social media, you've got all these things. I hope that makes sense.

15:13But like you have to sort of make them real and they are real in their own way. But is that a challenge? Is it fun? Is it all of the above? Yes, yes, yes. You know, what's so interesting is if you if you think about what's happening in the world today, you know, there are avatars that all of us play in games or on social media or things like that. There's characters that we all love from different parts of our lives. We've talked about a few today. This idea of a character is really strong in our culture and in our world today. But in so many ways, a lot of them are thin as a cracker in that, you know, like, sure, there's a ton of characters.

15:57But what do you really feel? What are you really a fan of? And what makes that difference? and that's something we spend a lot of time thinking about which is like okay janky and googiemon and their galaxy of characters daisy and the little helpers and everything else people know them we've achieved that mission but now the mission is to get people to really know and love them and that tracks in a couple ways for us like kind of any good plot right you're either ever always developing character or advancing narrative we've developed character with this group and now we're going to advance narrative and that's why things like dopamine institute for pleasure research are so fun because you're physically part of a scheme you're part of an adventure to develop narrative with our characters meanwhile we're back in the factory developing new characters too um you know that that will eventually be ready with audiences to go out for more adventures, but we kind of think of it that way.

16:58Like, how do you really become a fan of something? I mean, Zach and I both spend so much time in the sports business. We love fandom and we just apply it here. Yeah. And you're doing a, you're doing a good job with it. Like just reading what, what struck me in, I mean, this wasn't my natural space, like, but researching you guys for this and looking at it, what struck me is the loyalty of the audience, you know, like the core audience and how loyal they are and how vested, you know, people are in this world and in these characters and in the art and all that stuff. Because the collectible, the interplay of the animation with the physical art, with collectibles and all that, there's a ton of like synergy with those two things.

17:48And that mindset is really brilliant. Talk to me about what those art releases are like and what that world entails. Yeah. So art releases, they can vary, of course, with everything that we got going on. But in general, we want to create this hype moment. We want to create a sense of urgency where people are excited and know what's coming. And then ideally, we're selling out pretty quickly after the drop. Right. So it starts with kind of teasing what's coming up. You know, can we play off of some previous references, you know, that the artist is known for? Maybe we've already collaborated with them.

18:31We do have our own kind of super fam, kind of our own loyalty group. And so we do give them early access to what that drop is going to be. You know, it's part of them being so ingrained kind of with our brand of being loyal to it. and then how can we show off the story and the lore like behind the drop itself like what went into it and how can we create a larger conversation around it with maybe kind of you know partners or fans of that artist itself and and they do range so like we had an amazing drop over the summer with an artist who's not known as like a big time art artist but he's huge in the tattoo space for professional athletes by a name of gang guys based out of los angeles and he literally does all the tattoos for LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Carlos Alcares, the entire Brazilian soccer national team.

19:24And so we did this awesome toy drop in those three versions based off of one of his iconic characters. And we had a super, super limited run. Then we had a mid tier and then we had a larger one. We kind of staged the drops to create excitement, right? People that missed out on the first super limited one had a chance for the other ones. But what we did with gang and what he did a great job of was we seeded these to LeBron, to Anthony Davis, to Carlos Alcarez, to Vinny Jr. and Rodrigo. And we have all these amazing photos of the toy. So we use that to help amplify. And so that would be one of bringing us into new audiences.

19:59We have another one coming up, you know, with an Atlanta-based mural artist called Greg Mike. It's actually dropping later this week where, you know, he's very much into the core artsy. He has an amazing space in Atlanta. He's doing stuff at Art Basel this week in Miami. And so with those, it is deeper into that art space. Can we do a very cool curated wall mural? Can we have, you know, potentially a live art experience with the drop at Art Basel? Because we know that community is already going to be there and doing things. So we do try and like customize these artist product drops to kind of align with what we feel the fans are going to be into and what the artist is known for.

20:38And so when someone like a Greg Mike's going to be at Art Basel, that makes sense. When someone like Genga is going to be in LA and you have the Brazilian soccer team in for a soccer game or LeBron James, let's seed them product and capture a lot of content around it. And then there's stuff in between. But we do want to bring our artists very close to our fans and then really have it be more of a partnership where they're involved with the drop and pushing it versus just licensing something and selling it. And then we're manufacturing. That is not what we do. It's super plastic at all. It really is that kind of blend of the IP.

21:08And so that comes with how we bring it to market and how we sell it and really talk to and engage with our fans. So shameless plug for the YouTube channel, because our YouTube channel is blowing up. So we got to you got to be watching this to get the full experience. If you're listening right now, we love you. We know you love you. We love you for making us number one. But look, you have to watch us on YouTube because Jennifer was just holding up one of these characters. Jennifer, I want you to hold hold them up again and tell me who that is. Who is OK? Who is this? This is one of the three that we did with Ganga, the artist that Zach just mentioned.

21:45And what's interesting is this is actually a perfect illustration of a combination between a series of toy that we do called a choppy. That's like the sort of eye and mask thing. But also with an astronaut, which was the integration with Genghis character that he has drawn, which is more of a sort of astronaut type character. So it was a perfect combination. And as Zach said, we did three different versions of it. one that we did in extremely limited quantities that sold out immediately. The other two in slightly less limited quantities, but still small. Those also sold out pretty fast. Yeah. Yeah.

22:22That was going to be where I was getting like, how rare are we talking about now? How, how's the valuation on these pieces, these going? So, you know, and that's a, that is the ultimate, I think, spreadsheet project is, you know, How rare is rare enough? And to be honest, it is some magical equation between the size of your audience and the quantities that you should make. we have in our history done a lot of different experiments with scarcity um zach and i have in the past year really started to change the approach to be though to go more and more rare for these types of toys because they are so valuable uh when they're in the smaller quantities both for us in our business but as well as for buyers and you know the secondary market which is a really interesting and thriving opportunity for everybody.

23:25Yeah. And it's a really interesting point, Jennifer, because I think about it like as a CEO, is this a brand play or a revenue play, right? Because it's like, hey, I could sell, am I going to sell a million of these or am I going to do a hundred of them or a thousand? And that's because the hundred or a thousand is probably brand because it's probably not a ton of revenue, but it elevates the brand value and the character value. That's an interesting interplay, I'm sure, in the decision process. It's a fantastic question because it is the core of why we call ourselves an IP or a media company because that is our asset, that is our value, and that is our goal is to be larger than kind of any one tool to bring that to fans.

24:16And toys and our high-end collectibles are unequivocally a fantastic brand opportunity to connect deeply with a community. We would argue the same is true for our experiential space in Vegas, for our game on Fortnite, for our social media content and our longer format stuff. All of those things become, you know, very important tools for how we grow and expand the IP that we build and, you know, want fans to love. But yeah, it is unequivocally brand. Yes. Yeah, I'm sure. And that's, but I want our audience, you know, we have a very affluent marketing and business and executives to the startup crowd.

25:01crowd, but they need to understand this interplay because we've gotten conditioned in this world of very cheap performance marketing stuff, sell, sell, sell, sell. And that's great. I mean, we all got to make the cash register ring at a certain point, Jennifer. I know you probably held some level of your evaluation, I'm sure, is monetarily driven. However, you can't, The high tide raises all ships. And when you elevate the brand, you are elevating the IP to a level of evaluation that it would not have without that investment. And that investment pays over time. unequivocally and it and there's there's really kind of two components that you know we balance in our business um the first is really this how do collectors work right what is what is the way that a core collector base grows a brand and i learned this when i was in the nft space at dapper labs the the biggest collectors your most avid collectors are actually the ones that attract the most attention and others to your brand.

26:09So it doesn't work where it's like a concentric circle outward. It works where the whales or your biggest collectors bring in kind of the fringe. So it's almost like from the furthest out is attracted in by your core collector group. And so it is incredibly important for us, and Zach articulated this too, to keep that core collector satisfied and happy and intrigued. That's one dynamic in our brand. And that also has the scarcity and the revenue limitation to it. At the same time, our mass reach and our collection of, you know, targeted segments that make a mass on social media platforms and other larger format vehicles is equally important to us because that also brings new people into the funnel and gives us, if you will, the currency to be able to spread that IP through other channels that will make us revenue, right?

27:08Like personally, I would love it if toys was our smallest revenue channel, because it would mean we've succeeded as a brand to be able to, you know, make the core collector happy with the best stuff, but also make a business out of the other revenue that we have in our, you know, in, in our platform. Smart, really fucking smart. I got two smarts out of you, Ryan. I loved it. Yes. Yeah. Because you're playing, this is the Ryan Alford brand playbook. I grew up on the, I've been in this for 20-something years and watched, you know, some of the brand, the innovative brand approaches erode. And this is a game of chess when a lot of players are playing checkers.

27:53And I see that and I value it. So I want to give you props for that. I appreciate that. Zach, talk to me, you know, as a collector and as someone that, you know, you're, you're, you're a consumer and working on the brand. Uh, do I, do me and my kids need to get in on this? Well, one, we'll happily send you some, so the kids can have some fun. I mean, the answer is yes. So I, uh, I have a near 13 year old and, uh, my wife definitely enables us and support in a big way, but yeah, I mean, he got back into collecting toys, also sports cards, comic cards, uh, When there are local card shows in town, I'll buy a table for him and his friends to put up their collections and sell.

28:37And then it's a little business for him. So depending on who your kids are, you could turn them into what's the value of the secondary market. How do you buy low, sell high, what to track, what not to, how to frame things up. I mean, isn't the number one thing kids want to do when they're later being an influencer? So at least put some business mind behind them so there's not just an influencer. It's like, hey, I'm an influencer, but I have a$30 ,000 a year side business on eBay and I'm 14. like I'd rather see that on the resume so that's how I've gotten my kid into it we have four boys 15 13 12 and eight and the what I do with the boys I coach their sports teams and then we have these little collectibles that we do together so this might fit in there a little bit I feel like we're uh brothers from another mother on a different coast um yeah I am our coach of soccer and flag football and then do the same and we'll have all those things they're great your older boys will love our content.

29:29Your eight-year-old should not watch it. Yeah. Well, he can grow into it over time, but it's fun being a core collector because I, I mean, the passion comes through the work and engage. Like it's very authentic and natural for me because I literally did grow up in San Diego, bringing my box of comics down to the San Diego comic-con back when you could sell and buy comics. You know, this is in the late eighties, early nineties, and now it's the most amazing entertainment vehicle extravaganza ever but like no one buys herself comics there yet it's called comic-con it's really just a pop culture fest but then to now and so when we're engaging these people like i understand the nostalgia feel i understand that you know how you want to display like i'm not in my uh family cave which has all the toys and the cards it's over in the garage but like it's fun to have out we have things around the house people love asking questions about it And then you can explain.

30:22So I'm more of an extroverted collector. We have some that are introverted that may not want to talk about it. But, you know, behind that door, that's where they get validation because they have all their toys set up. But that's more of an introverted collector. And maybe they just want, you know, you to send them stuff, but they don't want it to be loud and broadcast. Whereas others like, yeah, here are photos of my collection. We're running something right now called Deck the Halls over the holiday campaign where we're asking everyone to show off their super plastic collection. and we're having submissions come in online and then we're sharing them on social and then rewarding our favorites and other toys and like people have the most amazing setups ever with how they display our figures in the house and so it's very cool but then because of that it's like well this doesn't just have to be collectibles like these kind of look just amazing in a lobby like why don't hotels have this or law firms or consulting agencies like these are great gifts instead of your boring corporate holiday gift why don't we do some custom painted art figures and And even if they're not a collector, just give them something cool and different.