13 Year Old Realizes His Twin Brother Is A Killer In The Middle Of Interrogation

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0:36If you're listening to this podcast, you're probably used to things getting a little complicated, but Southern New Hampshire University does things differently. They keep it simple. Over 200 online programs so you can skip the commute, no set class time so you don't have to rearrange your life, and actual humans supporting you so you're never doing it alone. It's college without the chaos. Seriously, see everything Southern New Hampshire University has to offer at snhu.edu slash rotten. Ryan Mango is sponsored by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night ready for a heart-pounding thriller, but getting a three-hour documentary on lawn care.

1:15That's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but when it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. You wouldn't settle for a snooze fest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when they're State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Welcome to part two of the two-part audio podcast that is the Cart Twins case. If you haven't already listened to part one, I highly recommend doing so. We uncovered that a 64-year-old woman by the name of Denise Tenpenny was assayed and murdered in her own home, in her own bed, and the only thing left behind was DNA evidence.

1:56That DNA evidence led investigators right across the street, 50 feet away from Denise's home to two people, which is weird because how is DNA evidence viable for two people? Is it two people's DNA? Well, this is where it gets tricky. It leads them straight to two 13-year-old brother, twin brothers, identical twins. So technically, their DNA is identical. And the police have decided they think that only one of the twins is involved. They bring both twins along with their mother into the police station. They're interrogating them separately and this is where all hell is going to break loose. So with that being said, let's get started.

2:54hunter and levi's mom becca is in the waiting area of the police station so she's been brought out from the room where they kept like telling her to eat the raisin canes. They bring her out and the twins dad Kyle has since joined and they're both just wanting answers. Why can't they get the twins? Why can't the twins come out? Why can't they get the twins a lawyer? What the hell are the investigators talking to them about without them or the lawyers present? When there is a situation where identical twin DNA is involved the best thing investigators can do is look for evidence that's not DNA related and they find it under Denise's body.

3:28The investigators come out to talk to Becca and Kyle and they tell them it's not that they randomly targeted the twins. It's that quote, I don't know what in the world happened. We're not talking to him anymore. I mean he doesn't want to really talk anymore. I don't know what happened. We have a lot of other evidence too. I'm just trying to figure out what happened. She says, I don't know. They tell her it's not just the DNA. There's some certain things we're going to tell you that we have that are bad, okay? That watch that we showed you that belongs to one of the twins was under her body. Becca starts freaking out.

4:03She starts sobbing, alternating between putting her head in her hands to holding her chest. She's pacing the area. She seems like she can't sit still. She doesn't really even know what to do with this information, it appears. Eventually, she asks, what happens now? He's only 13. Oh my god. Oh my god. Eventually she's on the floor and she even apologizes to the investigators for being rude earlier. Out of all the suspects and perpetrators parents Becca seems like maybe one of the few that really tried her best. If you get the full FOIA file like we did there is a lot of unredacted information that I didn't include because I don't know how relevant it is but Hunter talks to investigators of how much their family has gone through and it does appear that Becca has really tried to shield her sons from anything that could have happened.

4:49The fact that she regularly puts them in therapy encourages them to talk about their feelings. They even found her journal where she writes about how she's trying to parent and by all accounts, it seems like she genuinely is a good parent. The fact that she's been trying to be helpful this entire investigation, the fact that she is apologizing to being rude to the investigators, which in reality, I honestly think that she was still just protecting her children. There's really nothing to apologize for. She never behaved in a way that made it feel like she was enabling her kids or shielding them from consequences or not participating in the investigation.

5:22But when she's told it's her son's DNA, his watch, and they found a piece of a green nitrile glove at the scene and a box of the same green nitrile gloves in his closet. They've also found a pair of bloody L.L. bean boots located in his room with visible staining. And now one of the twin brothers is going to find out that his brother is guilty as well. The officers leave Levi's interview room about an hour in to let him finish his food and really like sit with his thoughts. And when they come back in, the first question they ask him is, hey, do you think sometimes people do something that they regret that is out of character for themselves?

6:01Like, do you think they do something and they kind of get scared and they don't want to talk to or tell anyone about it? They ask him, how his DNA ended up at Denise's house. Levi asks, well, how is it my blood? That's what we're trying to figure out. They tell him that they took his DNA swabs and they compared it to the DNA in the house and Denise's house. And it's not only Denise's blood, but his blood is mixed in with it. He doesn't seem wild. He just asks, well, how does that work? Well, everybody's DNA is unique. Everybody has different DNA. Everybody, it's like fingerprints. Nobody has the same fingerprints in the whole world.

6:31Even brothers? Even brothers. Now, the match to the DNA was to both of them, But it's interesting that that's his response. And I think that's just what the investigators are trying to get at. When DNA is brought up again, he says, I guess everybody's is unique. I just mean like my brother is literally, well, my twin. I don't know how that would happen to begin with, how my blood would be at her house. If Levi says it's not his blood, then whose blood is it? And there's one interesting thing that Levi says. The investigators do the whole, well, we think whatever happened here is not malicious.

7:02We think it's a stupid mistake and that everyone needs to be honest so that we can talk about it. But when they say that, Levi responds, I don't think that murder is stupid, though. Which is like an interesting response. It's kind of odd. Back at the house, there's a search warrant being executed and investigators find Marshmello sitting very calmly just hanging out. What stops investigators, though, is not just that Marshmello is incredibly calm and the demeanor of Marshmello is very approachable, which Marshmello doesn't seem that stressed out about this move. Even that the fact that officers are in there just flipping up the house, looking for evidence.

7:39When officers approach, he flops over so they can pet his tummy. And that is when they notice that his claws are too small to make the injuries on Levi's face, even if Marshmello were pissed off. What does that mean? Like the scratch mark on his nose to get five stitches. They're saying like his claws specifically are too small. Interesting. Okay. Which that's what they say. They find in the drawer of the left nightstand of a bed, Confessions of a Serial Killer, the book, and a brown leather journal that just reads on the first page. Okay, so on the very first page, it has Levi's name on there.

8:13And the second page reads, I will kill you. K, K, K, killer. And in big, chunky, blocky letters. The last page of that notebook has a handwritten instruction page on how to balance on one leg. It reads, stand with both feet planted firmly on the ground. next slowly raise one of your feet and stand with all your body weight on the opposite leg you should be balanced on one leg reach your raised foot forward which points to being levi because he was working on his mobility i see but it's not just the journal it's what's on levi's phone versus what's on hunter's phone on his devices he's talking to someone on tiktok and levi messages them i have very low empathy which has been confirmed also my plan i'm on track found my MO.

8:56He takes screenshots of serial killers, MOs, their psychological analysis, equipment used for transport, body disposal, naming, possible planning, execution methods, body dump sites, clothing, appearances. There are several photos of Levi of himself that he's taking like selfies where he's choking himself and taking a photo, which I looked into it and it seems like sometimes people with very morbid interest who want to see what someone would look like dead will sometimes Google pictures, but then maybe it's not good enough. So then they'll like... In other messages to unknown TikTok users, he's messaging about how he has a severe lack of empathy.

9:33He likes hurting animals in his childhood. And I guess this person tells him that he can never hurt a fly. Like, I don't think you could ever hurt a fly. Levi responds, I've killed animals before on my own with a knife. You're right. I probably couldn't hurt a fly though, because they're too fast for me. He states that he doesn't kill while he hunts. He says, I don't go hunting. And he's talking about killing. He says cats, dogs, some squirrels. Then he sends a message that reads, trying to understand my own problems. Are you sadistic at all? I'm fairly curious. Not too long after, he googles causes of being sadistic.

10:05Then he takes screenshots of information of how serial killers subdue their victims before killing them, as well as how to strangle someone and how long that process takes, which Denise was found smothered to death. And the night of the murder, authorities are able to track Becca, Hunter, and Levi's phones. 1253 a.m., Hunter plugs in his phone into the charger and locks his phone screen 2 12 a.m levi locks his phone 2 19 a.m hunter locks his phone then from 2 30 to 2 52 a.m levi's on his phone using his camera but we don't get any other information from that wait what's happening so at two o 'clock ish both brothers lock their phone yeah like as in like it just shows that they turned off their phone like you know they can track when you unlock your phone lock your phone so they were both awake around yes that time okay and levi turned on the camera for how long 2 30 to 2 52 a.m 20 minutes 5 21 a.m he unlocks his phone again and starts searching up fairfax ohio police department fairfax ohio fairfax ohio police department photos then later when levi goes to his dad's house he starts googling again Fairfax, Ohio photos Fairfax, Ohio police department photos Fairfax, Ohio police department Does Ohio have restrictions on using familial DNA searches?

11:21What was Ted Bundy's diagnosis? What was Ted Bundy's kill kit? Fairfax, Ohio woman found dead Fairfax, Ohio woman found dead What was Ted Bundy kill kit? Why do you think he's searching about kill kit? I don't know After the fact Maybe Maybe there's more curiosity Yeah Then he sends a message to someone on TikTok A few days after the murder I'm probably going to get caught and then deletes that message then there's more searches on Google saliva drug tests, saliva swabs juvenile detention center, Cincinnati Hamilton County Youth Center, ways cops mess with you in the interview, ways cops mess with you in the interview room.

11:56Two hours later after that search, Hunter and Levi are called in for police interviews. Meanwhile on Hunter's phone they find messages between Hunter and Becca. They do a full search of Hunter's phone. Becca is texting him that she's in the ER with Levi. Be careful around Marshmello. Why? He's being feisty about the house moving around. Okay, he's trying to hug me right now, lol. Part of the reason we're in the ER is because Marshmello was sleeping on Levi's face and then startled each other and he got scratched on his face. He took a shower and slipped and hit his face on the tile. Oh, yikes.

12:25If he gets moody, just get up and walk away from him and keep him away from your face. It seems like all of the digital evidence, Hunter, like his phone did break. He was sick in the bathroom. There's no messages. There's no weird Google searches. His phone was off during the time of the crime, whereas Levi is Googling a lot of the Fairfax, Ohio. So Hunter, it seems he did look up the case, but in the very normal way of like what's going on, like local news reporting. Yeah.

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15:36And with Hunter, it seems like at first investigators wanted to know if they were both involved, but primarily they suspected Levi in the beginning. But after seeing Hunter's reaction to everything, it just didn't strike them that he would be involved. But more importantly, aside from DNA matching, because he and Levi are the same DNA, there's really zero evidence tying him to being involved at all. I mean, there's nothing in his phone, his journals, there's nothing in his room. there's nothing on his face or body to indicate any scratches. And he also doesn't believe that his brother is involved.

16:04Hunter tells the investigators, I'm sure from your head and the other investigators, you guys are probably thinking about like, of course, he has scratches on his face. He left the house. He had to go to the hospital. All that stuff that we told you, you know, is very much so corresponding to what happened. And I just want you guys to know that I have no faith that my brother would be able to do something like that. Like, I don't know if you guys know. I don't know if this is spreading too much information, but our family have gone through some very, very traumatic things. Also knowing that, I also know that having a very traumatic childhood could make somebody be able to do something like that.

16:33So again, that's another thing that I feel like it's just a coincidence, like way too many coincidences, like his face being scratched from him going through traumatic experiences. So it's completely possible that, and there's just so many times, Hunter looks like he's seeing the coincidences that are forming, but he stops himself. And he continues, I don't know, like in a different universe, he did that, right? But personally, I believe, I thought about it, I imagined it because I'm a very imaginative person. I imagined like, what if Levi made up this story of scratching his face and then like what actually happened?

17:01Oh, and then he snuck out at that night and did that horrible thing. But like that was just actually, I didn't believe that. Like that's something, I don't believe that's something he could actually do. After I imagined, I was like, no. All three of us are very, very, very, we express our feelings very much so. I know that he has a lot of trauma. He's basically saying, I know Levi has a lot of trauma, but we all talk about our feelings. Like we're very open. We're all in therapy. He like, that's not how we do it. He even says the day after Levi got back from the hospital, remember he went to go stay with his dad, Hunter says that the reason was because he was triggered.

17:32And I know that sounds suspicious, but he, and it seems like Hunter has another moment. And then he stops talking. He says that Levi told him he just wanted to leave the house because I don't know if he was upset about getting the cat scratched in the face, but it was just like the house, you know, he's crying. And he was like, just this house makes me feel traumatized. I don't know. I feel like traumatized feeling, but I'm not feeling traumatized. That's the words he used. But Levi has a lot of trauma. He gets triggered. He, you know, he's feeling triggered whenever I would talk about what happened across the street.

18:03Explain what you mean by that. I don't know. I'm just going to keep saying this, but this makes me feel really upset because a lot of evidence is piled up against him. But I mean, I don't know if you guys suspect him of anything, but I truly don't believe that he could do anything like that, even though he has all these things. He's never talked about anything like that with you about hurting somebody when he gets triggered. no no he doesn't like he doesn't behave weirdly when triggered he just doesn't he's just quiet he's it's upsetting for him he started crying when we got back to the house because he said he never gave us an explanation to why he was triggered like I'm just I am sure you guys can't tell me whether or not you're suspecting him I'm just going to tell you right now I don't believe that it's not possible it's just not possible did he say something to you no that's not what I'm saying I'm saying it's not possible he would be able to do something like that.

18:48Hunter says it doesn't make sense because even after the investigators came and took their DNA, he says, I mean, we joked about it. Like, how does it feel having your DNA in the system now? Because he would say he's told me that he doesn't think he would be a serial killer when he's older because it just doesn't make sense to me because that's just stupid. He also says that he has immense capacity for empathy for us. It's just slightly less than for other people. So Hunter is saying like he has empathy for his family. There's no way that he could be a killer. Hunter mentions Levi would talk about how he feels like hurting people sometimes.

19:19He feels empty and he feels violent. He's never acted on any of that. He hasn't had any impulses to kill somebody. I don't know for how long. I just know that for the last year it's been brought up to me. I don't know how long he and mom have been talking about it. I mean I've been like for my whole life a very very happy child because I think me and Levi process our trauma very differently you know while growing our brains. I don't know how differently. I don't know. yeah hunter says that he feels like what if he's being crazy which means nothing is happening but levi will know that hunter suspected him almost which means that levi would never talk to him again because if that were hunter he would never talk to his twin brother because the betrayal of suspecting your brother of being a killer would be too much but also if he did do it then they need to know and hunter says he said multiple times he's not stupid enough to do that so it's not like he's been acting erratically these past few days after he got scratched by the cat.

20:08He's been acting pretty much normal. He just only acts slightly weird whenever I bring up the thing, which makes sense. The thing that happened across the street. Yeah. He's disabled. He's very transparent to us and his therapist about the way he feels. Also, the doctors would have realized it and said something like they don't look like cat scratches if they weren't cat scratches. Like, I don't remember what it's called, but they said like a plastic surgeon came down and stitched his nose to make it look better. Wouldn't the nurses or doctors have had suspicions? because surely you'd be able to realize that something was a human's nail or a cat scratch.

20:39He later leans back and he's almost like looking off to the side as if he's replaying the last few days in his head. There's just no way, obviously. Like, there's just no way he wouldn't tell me or tell somebody if he did do that. Like, he just goes on with his day. Like, I know murderers do that, but him, I don't believe it. I don't know why the investigators decide that they want to be the ones to break it down for Hunter. Like, maybe they want to see his reaction. Maybe they want to see if he's going to tell them something else to confirm. whose belongings these are i don't know but they show him like a very zoomed up picture of levi's watch and they it's on a tablet it's clearly a crime scene photo but it's so zoomed in that you wouldn't know what do you think about that what what do i think about what do i think about that he's just looking at the picture of the watch he's like what do you want me to think about it's just my brother's watch here let me widen it out they zoom out what do you think that's the picture of he starts like i guess hyperventilating you don't hear it on the body cam but the officer tells him to take a deep breath and he says we don't have any of those blankets right that's not your house how does the watch in the struggle was it was broken no i remember him saying that he lost his watch and when did he say that after he got home from the er i don't remember him talking about it and then when he left he came back and he said he doesn't know where he put his watch but hunter is still defending his brother the way he sounded I don't know.

22:01Like, it was like, I don't know where my watch is. I don't feel a person could say that. A person would say that knowing that they wore their watch if they did that. They show Hunter a picture of a knife that he's never seen before. And he tries to tell investigators that's not the knife that they have inside their house. There's just no way he did it. Like, someone had to have planted his watch or something. Like, planted. Like, only proof that you could give me is if you find his sperm DNA. And if I'm right about her apparently being raped because he was on the news. only thing I can believe like I'll tell you this right now that's not a possibility the way he acted after that happened after he saw the ambulance he was like why is the ambulance outside there's no way that he could fake all of that so correspondingly to the point where I could see none of it like I didn't see any of the cracks none of it he faked all of his emotions Hunter later tries to say maybe that's not even his watch he says there's no way that my brother like there's no way someone in my family even though like all I'm gonna say is I don't believe it I'm gonna say that I think there needs to be more evidence I think there needs to be more evidence to convict him.

22:57I think there needs to be more evidence. I know you probably haven't shown me all the evidence, but that can't be enough evidence. Like I know there's all these coincidences just stacked up against him, but there's no way. I mean, my brain really goes off topic. I just thought, what if he lost his watch at dad's and this is all just some sort of misunderstanding and dad finds it or like he really did just miss his watch. Like he really did just accidentally forget where his watch is and I made a mishap and I said, that's his watch, even though that's not his watch. And you guys show him that photo and he'll probably say like, No, that's not my watch.

23:26Like, do you guys think that's his watch? Yes. Do you guys think that he did this? Yeah. You're fully convinced. Yeah. We haven't gotten into everything, but that's why we're here. And he starts breaking down. And he screams, no, no, it's not possible. And he starts frantically asking, like, are you saying he purposefully hurt? And then he goes back to, there's no way he would do that. Like, even if he did kill her, there's no way he's the one who raped her. Like, he's not that type of person. And on top of that, I don't believe for a second. I think what's happening is that there's a really, really meticulously planned smart person who planted that watch there and had been planning this for a while.

24:02And it just so happens that Levi had a lot of traumatic experience and he grabbed that knife and he took the watch and they did that. He also tries to reason with the investigators because he read on the news that whoever did this, they referred to him as a man. And he was like, and Levi's not a man. Fox 19 said that he was a man. He says the chances that this is his twin brothers doing is slim to none. I have no belief that Levi doesn't have the capacity to rape and kill somebody purposefully, willingly, harmfully, having the person fight back. And also, how would mom not find out about it? And if she did find about it, why the fuck would she hide it?

24:36She's not the type of person to hide it, which I do agree with. There's no way he's stupid enough to leave his own watch. On top of that, use our knives. He's a very smart and calculated person. He knows what he's doing. He's not stupid enough. I mean, maybe on drastic circumstances, he was very, very impulsive. He really felt like killing someone. You know, he had no other weapons. He could have just gone into her house and stole one of her knives. Like why is he faking his empathy for us? Does he not actually care about any of us? Is that the reality we're facing here? Is the reality that I'm facing here is that my loving brother from my whole life, my brother that I've cared for and cared for me and my mom has cared for and spent and dedicated her life to helping this person live.

25:14And then he asks if his brother is going to jail and what the chances are that he won't. And he puts his head down and he cries there's no way it's not possible there has to be someone who bloodied the evidence there has to be some misunderstanding and he keeps asking are you being 100 with me this is true this is true this is true they tell him that his brother's dna was at the scene and his head falls onto the table when levi is confronted with the fact that his watch and dna were found in denise's home They try to tell him, you just seem like kind of just a young man. I mean, I'm a young boy.