#259: The “Godfather Of J-Pop” Assaulted Male Trainees In Exchange For Making Them Stars (Johnny Kitagawa)

28:12He's good, but there's no way he's going to go up against the best of the best athletes with world-class training behind them. He just had to come to terms with it. It's really hard to be an Olympian when you're broke. And life is very unforgiving. So by the time that he's 15, he ends up dropping out of high school and he's trying to support his parents. This is where his dreams of becoming an idol start. He grows up very fast. He tries taking all these odd jobs in the fishing village, but he decides, I need to go to Osaka, get into a factory and send money back home because I'm not making good income.

28:46this is where he gets exposed to the idol world it's a bit random but a lot of these factories the workers would live in dorms and they would have this little common room with the tv and you could eat like ramen and stuff he and his roommate were the two teenagers that's it everyone else was like middle-aged men working in this factory and i guess they felt bad for the two teenage boys so every time the two teenage boys came in the tv you know at the time they only have like 10 channels and they they watch the news so they'd be like poor kids okay let's turn on I don't know what do young people like and they would turn on a random show and it would always be idols dancing dancing and singing and Koji would get so into it he would literally drop everything go in front of directly in front of the tv and dance along and these old men would just be watching and clapping and they would try to dance along too.

29:38It was like really cute, okay? But Koji was the Johnny's biggest freaking fan, okay? This is before they were disbanded and they were Johnny's only boy band at the time. Which side note, Johnny's is now used to refer to any of Johnny Kitako as idols. Okay. So you're like a junior Johnny if you're a trainee at JNA and then you could be like, oh, that's a Johnny. It's just a term for they work for JNA. Anyway, Koji freaking loved it. It was the highlight of his day. Koji would go to sleep at night dreaming of his life if he were an idol. His friend was a bit more realistic and he just had fun dancing and singing.

30:16He never thought that he could ever go on stage. So Koji slowly transitions from working at this iron factory to being a band hand. Someone that travels with the band helps him set up like an assist, right? And it's a freaking rough job. It is not glamorous. At least for Koji, it wasn't. He doesn't get paid well. he has to travel with the band in the cargo car so he's just sitting on this cold metal floor of the van bopping his head on the roof and there's like guitar slamming into him drum set slamming into him it was just miserable and since he's from a poor fishing village anytime the band performed in one of the big cities in japan people would start making fun of his accent calling him mean words that are basically slurs to refer to country boys basically and he was just so self-conscious he just altogether stopped talking he had so much social anxiety he was just about to quit because of how rough the pay was go back to the factory when he heard the band was going to be performing at a concert that the johnnies were also performing at so he's like okay let me just stick it through because he didn't even think he was going to get discovered he had no plans to like go harass johnny kitagawa and find a job he just wanted to see them live in person.

31:32He's like, I'm going to quit after I see the Johnnies. And that's when he was discovered by Kitagawa himself. That's how he became Kitakoji. And the Kita part is in honor of Johnny Kitagawa. Johnny really, really liked Koji. He didn't think that he had a funny accent. He just thought he had a very innocent face and a good work ethic. Koji debuted with The Four Leaves, and they were the next big hit. Koji would even do backflips on stage because remember he has a gymnastics background and four leaves was like the One Direction before One Direction. Koji's hard work, it pays off. He's on TV. He's an idol, but things change.

32:13Time goes on and leaves fall. For the four leaves, it took 10 years for the leaves to start falling apart. 10 years after they debuted, they were disbanded. Audience just wanted something new and Koji felt like his entire world had fallen apart. I mean, this was his life. What was he supposed to do now? And this is back before, you know, a lot of idols could make a living going on variety shows and being an entertainer, being a personality or going into acting like this was before that. It's just you're done. He genuinely thought that maybe he was meant to die with the four leaves. He said our last performance as the four leaves, the boys and I sang so loud and we dance like never before as if we were freeing ourselves from everything that we had experienced in the past 10 years.

32:56Fans were yelling at us, don't quit. But they were yelling for people who don't exist. It was all a facade. On the day of our disbandment, I felt like I received my kiss of death. It's such a big emotion. Like, I can't even imagine it. Koji said that he fell into drugs at this point. He was directionless. He was lost after disbandment. He tried to get into acting, but it didn't really catch on. It proved to be really, really hard to build a new career while struggling with substance abuse. So all he did was write. He wrote a lot to explore his thoughts and his emotions and exactly 20 years after his debut, he wrote his expose, a book dedicated to his life as an idol and it was almost a public warning to the newest leading boy band from JNA.

33:41He warned them that they are not alone and what they might have had to do to get where they are is not their fault. He wanted them to know he was on their side just in case Johnny Kitagawa was sexually assaulting them too. Koji talked about the numerous times he would walk off stage straight into Kitagawa's open arms. How he was just a teenager, but he felt like he owed Johnny something. How he felt like if he didn't do this for Johnny, his career would be over before it even started. He exposed Johnny Kitagawa and said this was his public warning. There is a predator out there offering to take Japan's children and train them into superstars, but he's assaulting them.

34:22It was a really, really raw book. It wasn't a way for him to get attention or like back into the spotlight, which a lot of people accuse him of writing the book for that. If you know what it's like in any culture coming out with allegations of abuse against someone so popular and loved, it's terrifying. in East Asian culture, particularly in Japan, where politeness is not a positive, but a mandatory, where politeness is the bare minimum. This is not normal. This is not like clout. But he hoped that he could save future trainees from this type of abuse. He wrote in his book that during his trainee days, Johnny would invite him into his room.

35:03Johnny would take his private parts into his mouth and would not stop until the deed was done if you will koji said johnny did this almost every single night for four to five years while koji was a trainee koji said it was confusing because johnny would basically convince him that these assaults were acts of love he made it seem like he wasn't abusing him he was just taking care of him in a way that every single good caretaker or guardian would he provided these boys with everything you know their lives their future and even their family's livelihood. And Johnny knew that even if they could see through his mental manipulation, how are they going to say no?

35:42How are these trainees going to say no? That's not an act of love. That's literally assault. There were more than enough reasons for their brains to convince themselves, actually, maybe this is what I want too. Many of them thought that this is just the price of being an idol. Koji said that he lived with Johnny for a while, like a married couple. But once he got famous, Koji felt like he could kind of reject Johnny's advances just a little bit. He finally felt a little bit of power and it wasn't a lot, like nowhere near what Johnny still had over him, but a little bit of something. He was still terrified of Johnny's reaction to his rejections, but Johnny didn't seem to care.

36:17Koji said that he just moved on to younger trainee idols. Koji said this was one of the big reasons that he turned to drugs in the first place. He thought that if the sexual assault during his trainee days was indeed love, it was just the admission price to his dream life he just thought this is what i have to pay and maybe it's worth it if my parents don't struggle anymore so he convinces himself this and once he debuts and as an idol he's like oh okay this is what i work so hard for and maybe it was worth it and i'm just so busy so he's busy with his schedule and everything that he has as an idol he didn't think too much into it he tried not to he just distracted himself but once the band disbanded.

36:57He was left alone with his thoughts and he was just so torn. Side note, this is a thing that happens frequently when someone is assaulted before they've matured or mentally developed. They might believe that it's not assault, especially if they've been groomed. But a lot of times these kids will turn into adults and realize that the thoughts of having any similar relations with minors make someone to gag. They start realizing that what they experience is not love. It's not parental love. It's not big brother love. They realize it's straight up assault. Like as an adult, they can never imagine doing that.

37:32And that's when it slowly dawns on them that they were groomed. That's most likely what happened to Koji. So he releases this book and it does pave the way for a lot of other victims to come forward with their experiences. But overall, everything is just sweeped under the rug. And it's not because there's no substance behind these claims. But because JNA has such a strong grip over the media, they are a huge mega corporation at this point. If anyone was going to release any information about these allegations, JNA would cut them off from their idols. And without these idols, these news publications, newspapers, magazines, TV stations, their revenue would be obliterated.

38:11Which is crazy because something as explosive as allegations of predatory behavior from one of the most powerful people in the entertainment industry. I mean, you would imagine that it's all over the news, right? So a lot of the public, they understandably thought, well, those are just rumors. If there was evidence, it would have been on like Sienna and it would have been on all these big news stations. Some people went as far to claim that Koji was just looking for another moment in the spotlight. They chalked it up to him struggling with being irrelevant. Side note, I know there might be people like, well, oh my God, people always sleep with their bosses to make more money.

38:46And then they want to say something about the power imbalance later. Koji. Okay, first of all, that whole thinking is really messed up. But Koji wasn't even making idol money. Okay, I just want to tell you. Even now, it's pretty common knowledge that idols, especially in J-pop, K-pop, they still give a pretty sizable chunk to their labels. But back then, Koji was making$1 ,000 a month. That is calculated with inflation. near the end when he was the peak of the peak like imagine he is he is black pink he's bts okay well maybe not on like a global scale but you get it like he was the top name in j-pop he was making 17 000 a month which is a lot don't get me wrong but can you imagine being taylor swift and making 17 000 a month think about how much the agency is pocketing they're pocketing probably millions of a month yeah sounds like they give the idols like 0.1 percent of yeah what they're actually making absolutely nothing like you're the it guy of the nation making 17k a month it doesn't even make sense the four leaves was bringing in millions of dollars of revenue for jna every single year and johnny was just taking it all when the ban was disbanded jna paid them a small severance fee of seventy thousand dollars that's it seventy thousand not a month just a one-time fee they're still young.

40:06There isn't that isn't even enough to retire. I mean, just think about it. You were bringing in millions and millions of dollars and now you don't have enough to retire. You can't get a normal job because people are gonna be like, oh my God, can I get your autograph? Like, can you imagine being a cashier and they're like asking for your autograph? Your boss would fire you. But then you can't stay in the limelight because Japanese entertainment is kind of like Korea where it's predominantly run by a couple of agencies. So if you're not signed with one of them, it's really hard to get air time. I do think that there was a brief four leaves reunion but other than that he remained relatively private.

40:40Koji got married he got divorced eventually he settled down and had a daughter. Sadly in 2011 he was diagnosed with liver cancer and he passed away. What's heartbreaking is before he passed he posted on his blog his final entry was released by his management company and they said that Koji lived a happy life and asked his fans to not grieve for him. He even addressed Johnny and Johnny's business partner slash sister directly, saying, thank you, I'm grateful for you. He had every right to be angry and bitter about the abuse, but he wasn't. He just wanted to show gratitude to the people in the business that had made his dream come true, even if it was only for a little while.

41:19But that doesn't change the fact that the story doesn't really have a happy ending. After Koji, many more boys become Johnny's prey. The next book to come out was written by a real Natakani. Natakani was one of the original members of the very first band. He was part of the Johnnies. He was one of the baseball boys. He had known Johnny since his middle school days, since his baseball team days, and he alleged Johnny was sexual with all of them while he was coaching baseball. He said some of their middle school baseball teammates were as young as 11 years old when the assault started. Natakani alleged that at least for him, Johnny would invite them to his apartment, and it was the first time that Johnny and Natakani were alone and Johnny said that, you know, just like be comfortable.

42:02Natakani did not have anything to worry about or at least he didn't think so. He trusted Johnny like an older brother but that's when the sexual advances started. Johnny started touching him through his pants, eventually undressed him and it was weird because he made it seem like it was completely natural and completely normal. He would say things like, oh, if you do this, this feels good and he just kept going until Natsukani had finished. Natsukani had no idea what the hell was going on. I mean, he's still so young. This was the first few years of being a teenager and this is back in the 50s where I don't know if they even had sex ed.

42:37They had no means of figuring it out. There was really no readily accessible internet where these young kids could realize what was going on. So he thought, okay, well, maybe this is how people hang out. He went back to some of his baseball teammates and they said, you know, the same thing happened to me too. Once they realized that Johnny had done this to all four of them, they thought, oh, well, then for sure this is just a normal thing because it happened to all of us. I mean, it does feel strange, but maybe we're just young. Natakani said he didn't realize he was a victim of SA until he was much, much older.

43:11He said, at the time, I didn't know how important sexual behaviors were, so I didn't really feel violated. Then when I got older, I realized how different my first experiences of sex were from other people's. And that kind of came as a huge shock to me. I'm like, what do you mean your baseball teacher didn't do that to you? After Natakani grew up and the Johnnies were no longer playing, he fell into drugs to help him cope with all these realizations. And so now Koji and Natakani, two of the biggest names to come out of JNA at the time, they're coming out with these allegations. More and more boys start coming out.

43:44And side note, a lot of these boys chose to stay anonymous. Keep that in mind. But one of them said, Mr. Johnny would call me. He would invite me to the dormitory to have dinner, and then he'd say, why don't you go to sleep? When I went to bed, he would come into my room, and he would get into my bed. He touched my genitals, and he put them in his mouth. Then he would apply something slimy and start the penetrations. In the BBC documentary, a trainee named Junya said that he started training with JNA when he was just 16 years old. He trained for six years, but he never debuted it. The BBC journalist asked him about his experience, and he said, Johnny's main job was scouting and developing talent.

44:23Johnny always came to my lessons, rehearsals, and the shows. I mean, he always came. He would always invite us to dinner and to the movies or for a drive. You know, Johnny definitely was someone with certain habits. He definitely had an overly affectionate way with children. From my experience, there was only one boy who didn't like it and ran away. The report asked, what does that refer to, like he was affectionate with children? He would put his hands all over our bodies and fondle the precious parts. The boys were elementary or middle school aged. Most of them had no sexual experience. The former trainee said, we would even joke today that our first sexual experience was with Johnny.

45:03And I'm sure many kids went along with it, had no understanding that they were being hurt. But there were also kids who understood and were like, Johnny, I love you. And went towards him and towards the assaults. in fact my impression is that kids were fighting for johnny's attention so another huge thing to note there is an obvious power imbalance here a the boys are brainwashed into thinking that what johnny was doing was love and was completely normal b johnny literally held their entire future in their hands he could ruin their dreams with the the snap of a finger also if these boys didn't know that what johnny was doing was wrong they probably consider it the price of admission into being an idol.

45:42The reporter asked, so you wouldn't consider that a boundary was overstepped? He nervously laughed and waved his hand in front of his face. The victim on the BBC documentary said, he didn't get me that much. I wasn't sexually abused or anything. There were just some massages that went a tiny bit further. It felt like family. The reporter asked, do you think the other boy's parents had a clue about what was going on? Yes, of course. The parents knew the truth, but they wanted their kids to get in. They'd say to their kids, you'd better offer your arse to Johnny. So it was common knowledge that Johnny was a homosexual with a liking for young boys.

46:17The parents knew, but they didn't say no. But can you see how that crosses the boundary into something criminal? The victim says if he really was a criminal or committed a crime, he wouldn't have had all that support. But Japan accepted him and elevated his business to the top. That's how Japan is. So there is so much to dissect from this interview. And just a quick disclaimer, I am no therapist or psychologist, and this is not a professional analysis. But from my non-qualified perspective, I feel like the victim is almost kind of running from reality. Like, maybe he's heard other boys come forward and call Kitagawa's actions pedophilia, criminal, sexual assault, and rape.

46:55And I think maybe he himself doesn't want to think of himself as a victim of all of those things. He could be using Kitagawa's fame and power to justify that. Maybe he's thinking, well, a criminal wouldn't have all of this success. A criminal would be in prison. If Japan had made this man successful and given him all of this support, he can't be evil. That's a fallacy. Someone can be a hard worker and a business genius and a master marketer and also be a pedophile anarchist.

47:26The second thing is, Genya said that the boy's parents knew what Kitagawa was doing, but they didn't care and even told their sons to offer themselves to Johnny if it meant that they'd become an idol. That sounds despicable. I could believe it, maybe, if it was one or two parents, but so many. I don't know how to feel about it. Like, honestly, statistic-wise, I'm also wondering if that's not true. Maybe it's just I don't want to believe that hundreds of parents would be a-okay with their sons getting abused, but maybe when Jenya was an idol. The boys played Kitagawa's abuse off like it was nothing.

47:59And maybe they said their parents were okay with it because maybe they didn't tell their parents the true extent of the abuse. The BBC doc is controversial in the fact that it never expands on that. I almost feel like the journalist didn't know what questions to ask to get more information on this. So we just kind of skipped over it. There's going to be more about this BBC doc in a second. But another victim said that he was first assaulted when he was a trainee. Johnny told him to go to the bathroom and take a bath Johnny even helped him fill the bath And the trainee genuinely thought that this Johnny CEO founder was so kind But then he tried to take him his clothes off And the trainee kept telling Johnny I can do it myself like thank you but you can leave now But Johnny continued silently undressing him completely until he was naked Then he put him in the bath and washed his whole body like he was a doll then he was told to come back and um he he did tell his trainee friend and the trainee friend said your dreams have been shattered but you have to put up with it or else you won't succeed so the assaults continued he said johnny would bother him all night long even until he saw the sun come up nobody around him was quitting because of it so he was confused whether or not this was really that bad if it was really that bad wouldn't all the trainees quit besides there were no other adults that you could really talk to about it.

49:18So it was hard to speak up. He said, the boys that became famous, thanks to Johnny, you know, their lives changed the moment they entered the agency. I think they're all just very grateful, but their careers are very different from the sex crimes that took place. So I think that's what makes it even tougher for victims. On one hand, you have a predator. On the other hand, when this predator is not preying on you and assaulting you, he can be sweet and kind and a business genius that can make your career dreams come true. You almost start to reason with yourself that this is the price you pay. One victim states that they were assaulted by Johnny, but said this, to put it simply, I don't dislike Johnny.

49:54In fact, I really like him. Even now, I love him. Johnny was really a wonderful person and I owe him a lot. I still think that we are treated with a lot of love, which is why I can smile and talk about what happened now. A lot of the victims even talk about wanting more attention from Johnny and almost fighting over him because it was a status symbol to be favored by Johnny. It meant something for your career. One trainee said, and I think that this shows how complicated it is, this reminds me of the JMS cult situation where girls would feel honored to be chosen as the lord's bride, but on the other hand, they felt absolutely disgusted by what was being done to them because they were essentially being r-worded by a predator, but in their heads, they're like, I am the lord's bride.

50:35It just became this exhausting internal mental battle that they should have never been forced to fight in the first place. The victim said, regarding Johnny's sexual harassment allegations, if I'm honest, I don't really think it was that bad. It's true that those things are something that really happened in the dorms. I just don't think that his motives for doing what he did was that bad. You know, no one really dug deep into it. Everyone knew that it was just something that you have to go through as part of J &A, but nobody really cared too much about it. At the time, there were rumors that if you accepted Johnny's advances, you would be famous.

51:07So I don't think you can blame either side. To be honest, my dream was to be famous, so I think I would have just accepted it. Yeah, I think if it happened to me, I would have just accepted it. Wow. Again, I'm nowhere near qualified enough to begin unpacking this, but let's listen to someone who is. The BBC doc did interview Nabuki, a therapist who specializes in helping male survivors of sexual abuse. He gave off really calming vibes and he just had this aura that was very, very peaceful. He said, it can be self-protection in some ways to deny that it was abuse. In order to survive, you don't want to fight the abuse.

51:44So rather than the painful, traumatic, sexual abuse trauma, why not make it more fun and loving in your memory? And often abusers, they will use this very natural thing to their advantage. It's also very natural for our bodies to feel pleasure, even if we don't want it. And often abusers will even tell them, look, your body, it's physically reacting. So you must be enjoying it, which in the long term is going to affect with your mental perception of this abuse. That's what makes it so complicated and confusing. And Japan has what he says, a culture of shame. If something's your personal problem, you don't talk about it because it brings a burden to the people that you're talking to about.

52:26Yes, that's so... It's kind of a Korean thing as well. So any problem that you bring up to a group of people, you are now burdening them with this problem. Because if they didn't know this problem existed, they would not be in a pickle where they have to think, huh, what do we do now? Sexual abuse makes it even harder in Japan and especially harder for male sexual abuse victims. Side note, we're going to get into it. But another trainee kind of confirmed this mental manipulation that Johnny used and they stated, we would go to Johnny's house. His house was like Disneyland. And it's not like I was sexually harassed every single time.

53:01Besides, I came to understand if I accepted his actions, I would gradually be appointed to better positions during TV recordings and magazine shoots. There was another trainee who rejected him and he was always put at the edge of the stage where no one could see him. After all, I was just happy to see my band was doing well and that my bandmates were doing well too. So I thought that my actions possibly getting in the way of upsetting our band or making the band worse or even disappointing the fans i just didn't want to do anything that would cause problems wow so he's thinking that if he reject him his bandmates will suffer and fans will suffer because they wouldn't be featured anymore and they'd be like why are you not putting out new music some people recommended that i go to the police at the time but i was going to kitagawa's place on my own accord it's not like he forced me and I didn't feel like I was hurt in any way, so I couldn't see myself as a victim.

53:56I think a lot of other former trainees also felt the same way. But SA is still SA, and allegations against someone Johnny's size should have been explosive, right? There were a ton of allegations coming out left, right, and center, one after the other, most of them including very moving, very detailed, specific statements from victims. So why was this not international news? Why is Johnny Kitagawa not talked about the same way that we now talk about Harvey Weinstein, R. Kelly, all these people. Why is he so beloved by so many? And from just these victim statements alone, we can conclude that there's probably more victims that have not come forward.

54:30So why haven't they, even anonymously? There are a lot of things that go into this. For one, these are male victims of sexual trauma. These boys so far all became victims in the 80s or 90s. It's really difficult for male victims to come out today, but imagine how much harder it was 30, 40 years ago. The Japanese public and really around the world do not think that men can be victims of sexual crime. Wipe is something that happens to women. And even then, nobody cares. Japan didn't even legally qualify men as victims. Japan's law up until 2017, did not recognize that men could be victims of sexual violence.

55:09The age of consent also in Japan, to this day, to this day is 13. Do you know what that means? That means if a person convinces a 13-year-old to have sex with them, no matter the age or power dynamic, that person cannot be held legally responsible because the 13-year-old was not tied down. Basically, sexual assault and exploitation of men isn't just taboo, it is invisible. The boys who came out only got judged. People would say, what do you mean you got raped? You're a man. That's like saying, what do you mean your wallet got stolen? You're 5 '7". How does that even correlate? It doesn't even correlate.

55:45The victims who did come out on the record, meaning with their face and their names attached to the story, they had trouble existing in society afterwards. Not only did they have to deal with their trauma, but it was hard finding jobs who would hire them because a lot of East Asian cultures don't like troublemakers, don't like outspoken people. Because people who accuse other people of sexual assault, quote, rock the boat. And East Asia is known for not liking people who rock the boat and make waves. Japan also has huge politeness culture, and being impolite isn't just annoying or rude, it's socially unacceptable.

56:20And it's a big belief that to inconvenience others should be avoided at all costs. Accusing someone of sexual assault is inconveniencing people. It makes people uncomfortable hearing about the story, which is also rude, and most people shy away from disgusting topics like this. So this type of environment discourages victims from calling out their abusers, especially if they're people of power. Just the act of throwing out allegations burdens the workers. And if the police were to investigate or if the company were to go under because of that, it would burden the employees and the idols. And it's just you are a bad person.

56:54Considering all of this, I really do admire the people who have come out. There are so many obstacles, but they were brave enough to stand up. They put themselves through all of this in hopes to save future trainees. But still, I mean, I would imagine that there would be some mainstream media outlets because, you know, I get it. media is controlled by people with money and power, but sometimes things get too big and you can't not cover it. Nope. The only newspaper was a local newspaper called the Shukan Banshan that was covering it. And they were the only ones that had no fear going up against JNA.

57:26A few sources online refer to Banshan as a tabloid, but others say that they're a highly regarded source for investigative journalism. And I am inclined to believe the latter because Banshan actually went up against the Japanese government at one point, and that was a whole scandal for them. But they start picking up stories from Kitagawa's victims. They publish a few allegations, nine to be exact, because this is important, because all nine allegations are going to be taken to court. One, if the boys refused the advances, Mr. Kitagawa would place them in a bad position on stage, out of the limelight, or they would not appear on television altogether.

58:01Two, Mr. Kitagawa let the minors drink alcohol and smoke on a daily basis in the dorms. Three, when his underage pop group Junior Four were taken under custody for shoplifting, JNA conspired with affiliated TV networks to put a lid on the story and keep it from being reported. This also happened with other similar incidents. Four, JNA and the particular office managers singled out members of the Four Leafs pop group for abuse and mistreatment. Five, adult talent who had previously worked for JNA were treated coldly for long periods of time. Six, the underage boys were given such busy schedules they weren't able to attend school.

58:36Seven, the talent employed by JNA were routinely not paid money owed to them. Eight, JNA-affiliated fan clubs were managed in such a way that they ignored the fans. And nine, the mass media is scared of JNA, only Prince flattering things about them. They published 14 articles about JNA and the journalists were able to find 12 boys who gave victim statements. One of them was only 12 years old. This time, the case blew up. Bunshun basically alleged the top entertainment conglomerate of being rotten and being led by a pedophile. Of course, there's going to be a reaction. Kitagawa read the article.

59:09So did everyone else at JNA. This wasn't some ex-idol that came out. And this was an article that a reputable news outlet had published. This could bring down their entire company. So Kitagawa sued them. JNA sued Banshan for libel, which basically means they sued Banshan on the grounds that their article was full of lies, made them lose out on profit, and caused damage to the company off of falsehoods. Banshan fired back that their article was not full of lies. And that they were going to stand by the journalists that wrote the articles. They went to court. Two of the 12 victims who talked to the journalists were willing to appear in court.

59:45And you have to remember these two victims were not subpoenaed. So technically they didn't have to testify because this was not a criminal investigation. They would gain nothing from it either way. They weren't being asked by prosecutors to do this. They just wanted to stand by what they said. But when the defense asked one of the boys what feeling they had towards Johnny as they sat there in the witness box, The victim said, I wish he live a long, good life. Most people saw this as how manipulated and brainwashed these boys were. But Kitagawa was like, See? I'm not assaulting these boys. They like me.

1:00:17He denied everything in court. He said that the boys were lying and that this was affecting his personal image. He said that he couldn't sexually assault anyone because 20 years ago, he had an operation on his private parts for a disease. And after that surgery, he lost all sexual function. he submitted a medical certificate to prove this but the certificate said nothing other than the fact that he had surgery now you can have the surgery and not have your sexual function impacted like it's not a a plus b equals c thing it's like oh i got lasik surgery so i can't have r worded that person it's like i mean it doesn't really make sense basically the courts were like you can't prove that your private parts don't work so we don't really care if you had surgery or not Johnny went on stage and he would just talk in circles, just really not answering anything.

1:01:05So I'll give you an example. When Kitagawa was being cross-examined, the prosecutors asked, or Banchen's side asked, simply put, why did boy A lie? Can you give me a short answer, please? You think that boy A lied because he was lonely? That's what you said, right? In short, I think that both boy A and boy B are in the same place right now. But that is just pure speculation. It's just that I found both boy A and boy B myself you know they are now friends but in such a lonely existence in short even if we say that we're a family there are people who will think that therefore as i said yesterday there is nothing more lonesome than not having blood ties in that sense maybe it was me that was lonely so so to make it clear i don't resent the boys or anything but but to say that the boys lied like your honor said it's hard for me to say they made a false statement honestly i never meant to sexually harass anyone but the boys were so adorable and the bond that we had was very strong that i felt it was terrible that we were not blood relatives i was merely trying to bridge this gap when suddenly the boys cried harassment the reason they claim harassment is not because they dislike gay activity they just wanted to betray me i'm sure they feel guilty about it now but i can't definitely say that their testimony is entirely made up i am so confused what is he trying to say He's basically saying that the boys have no family members who love them.

1:02:28So Johnny Kitagawa was trying to be like a dad figure to them. But then the boys mistook it as sexual harassment. And now they're crying sexual harassment. But they probably feel guilty about it now because all he did was be nice to them. I see. But then he's like, also, I can't say for sure that I didn't sexually harass them. Basically going the, these boys are troubled and crying abuse because they're lonely. And it also was not a short answer. Okay, does that sound like a short answer? Does that also not sound like an admission of guilt to you guys? The court did not agree. They sided with Johnny Kitagawa and ordered Banshan to pay$70 ,000 in damages adjusted for inflation.

1:03:03Banshan again refused. They appealed to the Japanese high court and this time the high court ruled in favor of Banshan. So they won, which adds more weight to the allegations. But this libel case never led to a criminal one. JNA tried to appeal this decision, but they were rejected. So now, now there was some attention and briefly politicians were asked, what are you going to do about this case? The politicians stated that Johnny could not be charged as a criminal because the age of consent is 13. Most of these boys were older than 13. Another thing is that boys could not be R-worded in Japan until 2017.

1:03:42And Johnny was not their parent or guardian, so he couldn't even be classified as child abuse. wow there was really no law that they could charge him on so everything just worked out in his favor yeah do you like see all the loopholes that really work for a predator i mean i mean these aren't even small cracks they're giant cracks in the system it's not even wow this really obscure loophole that nobody would have ever known what's going on who are we really protecting here so fine but what about a full-fledged cancellation? Cancel this guy's career, right? I'm not sure that happened either. The journalist who covered the libel case said, in Japan, love affairs or sexual relations between men, it's like people don't want to talk about it.

1:04:26People don't believe it. When he and other reporters tried to cover the libel case, they were pressured into not saying anything. The reporter said, I was treated as a dangerous person who did some sort of shady reporting. When we went to print, I was harassed. TV newspapers, publishers are profiting from JNA, so they tried to stomp out this story. In the BBC doc, this same journalist gave an interview and said, I have been in despair for 23 years. Reporters Without Borders ranked Japan number 68 out of 180 countries for press freedom, which classifies it as having a problematic situation. Wait, 168?

1:05:03Number 68. Out of? 180 being North Korea. And before anyone gets on their high horse, US is number 45. Norway and Ireland take the spot of number one and number two, meaning they have the most freedom of press. Because like, you know, every country, we're like, we're Democrats. It's a democratic system. We've got freedom of press. No, we don't. No, we don't. The Japanese government and businesses routinely apply pressure on the management of mainstream media. So it's self-censorship. It might not be government-controlled censorship like you would imagine in more communist areas, but it's self-censorship.

1:05:39it's practically the same thing it's pretty bad it's basically don't bite the hand that feeds you and they knew that Johnny likes to play games Kitagawa wouldn't even let his boys appear on just anybody's shows he had rules so if you were this huge tv network that needed their idols to come onto your tv station so that you can make money and views off of your ads you can't just ask for the biggest star Johnny would make deals with you I will give you the biggest star if you feature our new group three times in prime slots. That's the only way. Take it or leave it. You are also not allowed to promote any idols from rival agencies or publish anything negative about us.

1:06:18Or else this, this stops. If they did, Kitagawa would refuse to allow any J &I idol on their programs and they would lose both audience reach and advertising dollars. So yeah, a lot of the times these big TV shows would run these variety shows or like random network shows and they don't need an idol, but you would just see a rookie J &A idol just there. Basically just to get airtime, but like genuinely not giving input. Like, why are you there? It said if Johnny wanted an idol on that show, an idol would be on that show. So what does this all mean? This means J &A felt no effects from the libel case or the accusations, literally felt none of the heat.

1:06:58In fact, J &A only became more lucrative. Their bottom line was only getting greener. They brought home$36 million a year in profits so this is not like this is after operating costs this is take home johnny held the world record for the most number one artists number one singles and the most concerts produced by a single individual at the time and in july of 2019 johnny kitagawa had a stroke and was taken to the hospital trainees visited him shared food talked about their memories with him and even sang for him. Johnny ultimately passed July 9th of 2019. Japan held a two-day memorial concert in his honor.

1:07:38Over 88 ,000 people were in attendance. Hashtag thank you Mr. Johnny was trending on Twitter immediately after his death. Over 150 J &A idols performed at the memorial concert. The prime minister of Japan sent a condolence letter. An idol from J &A said, Jani-san taught me the wonderful things about entertainment. I still can't sort out my feelings and Jani-san would surely scold me if he saw me crying on TV. Fans who attended the memorial said, Mr. Kitagawa had strained so many idols over the years and left behind such achievements in the Japanese entertainment industry. I wish to offer my sincere prayers for him.

1:08:14My life has become this happy because of Jani's idols. I have come here today to thank him. I think Jani-san made his entertainment with love, so I want this practice to be passed on to the next generation. An idol from J &A even wrote a song as a tribute for Johnny's death. And I'll play a clip. The title is literally called Johnny. And some of the lyrics say things like, Didn't know you would change my world. As a lover that would take your time. Am I good enough to take your heart and give my love? Will you go? Will you stay? Yes, I'm forever your lover. Never leave you alone. Again, we can't be sure that this idol wasn't just using a song he already had and titling it Johnny and paying tribute because of his death.

1:08:54but a lot of people outside the situation saw it as a very heartbreaking love story for a potential victim. I don't know if he is. I'm just reporting what I read online. That's how a lot of people felt. Speaking of, even after Johnny's death, a lot of idols that stated they were abused by Johnny still expressed condolences and grief for his passing. They showed gratitude for what he had done with their lives. I mean, this has got to be the most complicated feeling that someone can feel. I think, again, like in the Japanese culture, at the end of the day, someone has passed. So one big thing that exists in, I don't want to just say Japanese culture, because I can see a lot of it in Korean culture as well, being a Korean American, but there is a really big thing of like, let's just not speak ill of the dead.

1:09:38You know, he already died, why bring it up? But it's kind of confusing, because the victims are not dead. Like you can't just bury everything, all the bad things someone has done just because they passed, and then just try to remember them in a good light. After Kitagawa's death, the control of JNA was passed down to his niece. So her mother, Mary, is Kitagawa's sister and co-founder of JNA. She was in her late 80s, so she couldn't take over, so her daughter did. Her name is Julie Fujishima. She has been working for JNA for 15 years. And in response to the resurgence of the allegations with the BBC doc, she said, Since the death of our former representative in 2019, We are working to establish highly transparent organizational structures, adapting to the times in compliance with laws, regulations, and strengthened governance with impartial experts.

1:10:26Every major news outlet covered Kitagawa's death, but almost none of them talked about his allegations. Journalists who were covering the memorial concert said, I was one of the people who assumed that when Kitagawa died, the dam would finally break. I assumed that there would be a flood of revelations now that he no longer had his hold over the media. When I asked about the lack of conversation, I was told the Japanese don't like to speak yellow of the dead. I find that a very unconvincing response. This wasn't somebody's grandfather. This was a very powerful person and somebody who is also a public figure.

1:10:58I think the media hid behind that excuse, that cultural taboo, because it was uncomfortable in many ways. They refused to say what everybody knew. Another thing, I see a lot of commentators online and a lot of them are stans of idols And look, that is not a group that I want to mess with. But I just want to say, I don't think anyone wants anything to harm J &A's idols. No one wants to boycott J &A. No one wants to take down J &A. No one wants to take down the company and then the idols are left with nothing. Nobody wants that. I think more now, especially the fact that Johnny Kitagawa has since passed, I think people just want to understand the full extent of what happened so that the victims maybe can get closure, can get some sort of even payout.

1:11:46Because I don't think money solves anything, but they were already, like, think about it. You don't think it could solve a little bit of something, at least, even symbolically? And to also learn how to prevent this from happening to the next generation, like, I think that's just what people want. I don't think people want JNA to go down. I don't even think they wanted JNA to go down when Johnny was around. I mean, maybe he would step down and someone else would run it, even if it was his niece. No one wanted. No one's sitting here like, take down the idols. No one's doing that. It's literally protect idols and future idols.

1:12:21But it's been a bit of a mess. Even the BBC documentary is super controversial. I do think that they would have highly benefited from having a Japanese reporter, someone that knows the cultural significance of everything, someone who could relate to the pressures that the victims faced. The interviews felt very journalist-led instead of participant-led. and the journalist didn't feel as understanding as I thought that he could have been. The tone that the reporter had throughout was, at least to me, felt very, I don't understand why this is happening, so therefore this shouldn't be happening in this world.

1:12:53When it should have been, I don't understand why this is happening, so please help us see whatever I'm not seeing. Help me see a cultural difference. Maybe that's it. Like, help me understand. Yeah, it's a lot more complex than you make it to be. Yeah, it's a lot more complex than like, well, we don't hate Johnny. And some of us actually wanted Johnny's attention. And the reporter is just like, that doesn't make sense. But it's like, no, but it's really complicated. It's like so complicated. There's just so much. The documentary has also gotten a bit of pushback because it feels like trauma tourism.

1:13:27Like, oh, look what's going on in this country. That's not ours, guys. They're crazy over there. Don't you feel better about being here? kind of felt like that without bringing in the cultural aspect it just felt very you know it feels like when people are like the dark sides of k-pop but they do it in a way that feels very much like good thing we don't have that in hollywood when it's like yeah you do you freaking do but on the bright side the documentary did spark a lot of international conversation though i don't think that you can even view this documentary in japan and actually a lot of japanese netizens were not happy with this documentary they commented it's a story of the past so why bring it up now and i saw another comment that said this is very rude towards the dead nakamura the journalist who covered the initial libel case the one that he said was mourning for 23 years responded to that comment and said then what are you gonna do when your human rights are threatened someone else clapped back considering the mental pain of johnny's talents it's difficult for fans to know how to react correctly i want to know the truth but if the fans make too much noise it'll have a negative impact on the activities of the talents who are just doing their best.

1:14:34Which I get it, but again, no one is going after the idols. But still, to not talk about it is not a great option either. So it's hard to know where to go from here. Some netizens compare Kitagawa to other famous pedophiles like R. Kelly and Jeffrey Epstein. But I mean, I can see the comparison since they all targeted younger people, but I don't know for them, even after death, because Epstein is dead, their reputations are completely ruined, rightfully so. They've been at least criminally and publicly cancelled. Kitagawa's case is a bit different. He's still considered a legend in J-pop and I can't imagine being one of the victims and seeing this guy still be considered the ultimate legend.

1:15:19What are your thoughts? I see some netizens arguing that art and personal life should be separate, but that's kind of confusing because no one actually holds actual idols to that standard. I mean, idols get cancelled for literally anything like gaining two pounds and they'll get canceled so why are these big big men in positions of power held differently i don't know what are your thoughts please just stay safe out there and i will see you guys on sunday for the mini sode bye