In short
Rotten Mango Podcast Episode #306 Summary
Episode Title Honor Roll Student Kills Mom With Cast Iron Skillet & Steak Knife To Hide Her College Secrets
Episode Description The episode dives into the chilling case of Sydney Powell, an honor roll student who, despite her academic success, harbored a devastating secret: she had been suspended from university and was pretending to still be enrolled. As her mother, Brenda, was on the brink of discovering the truth, Sydney committed an unthinkable act—murdering her mother with a cast iron skillet and a steak knife. The discussion revolves around the psychological implications of Sydney's actions and the ensuing trial that questioned her sanity at the time of the crime.
Key Themes and Topics
Sydney Powell's Deception
- Dual Life: Sydney pretended to attend classes, live on campus, and engage in sorority life while actually being suspended from the University of Mount Union.
- Academic Pressure: Sydney's suspension stemmed from a GPA of 2.2, leading to her living in fear of disappointing her family.
The Murder
- Incident Overview: The murder occurred on March 3, 2020, when Brenda Powell was on the phone with university officials, inquiring about Sydney's enrollment status.
- Murder Details: Sydney used a cast iron skillet and a steak knife in the attack, which resulted in multiple stab wounds.
- Immediate Aftermath: Sydney attempted to stage the scene, even answering the phone pretending to be her mother amid chaos.
Psychological Aspects
- Insanity Defense: The trial focused on whether Sydney was legally insane at the time of the murder. The defense argued she was experiencing psychosis, while the prosecution contended she was aware of her actions.
- Hallucinations: Sydney claimed to have experienced auditory and visual hallucinations, including seeing cartoon figures.
- Expert Testimonies: Multiple psychologists testified, but there was contention about the validity of her claims and the link between her psychological state and the murder.
Trial Highlights
- Arguments Presented:
- Defense: Emphasized Sydney's mental breakdown and inability to comprehend her actions during the crime.
- Prosecution: Focused on Sydney's calculated behavior before and after the murder, suggesting she was aware of the wrongness of her actions.
- Key Testimonies: Friends and family provided insights into Sydney’s mental state, with conflicting views on whether she exhibited signs of severe mental illness before the murder.
Verdict and Sentencing
- Outcome: Sydney was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 15 years.
- Public Reaction: The verdict stirred debates over mental health stigma and the perception of justice, particularly in relation to family dynamics and the impact on both the victim's and perpetrator's families.
Conclusion This episode encapsulates the complexity of a tragic case involving a once-promising student who succumbed to the pressures of academic life, leading to a horrific crime. It raises profound questions about mental health, the nature of guilt, and familial loyalty in the aftermath of such a devastating event.
Listen to the Podcast To explore more about this chilling case and the depths of the psychological implications, listen to the full episode on [Rotten Mango](https://rottenmangopodcast.com).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01I would imagine every college student has a little bit of a secret or two that they're hiding from everyone else, right? Maybe one of them slept with her best friend's boyfriend. Maybe that boyfriend physically bullied a pledge for his fraternity and he suffered minor injuries. I'm getting a little bit carried away, but like maybe one of them's hooking up with a professor. Maybe one of them is too scared to admit that they don't want to be a doctor just like their mom, just like their dad and the uncle and everybody else in the family. They all have their little secrets. Sidney Powell's secret was fascinating.
0:36But even more intriguing was her way of going about things, her way of making sure that nobody found out her secret, nobody found out the truth. Sidney Powell's secret was that she wasn't in college at all. Yet she would live in a dorm room with a roommate, have her backpack on, telling her friends, sorry, I can't hang out right now. I got to go to class. She was a part of a sorority. She would come to all the sorority meetings. She was in the library stressing out about the next exam that they had. She wasn't enrolled in the college at all. The dean and associate dean of student affairs, Michelle and John, at this university, they had multiple in-person meetings with Sydney.
1:20They all went something along the lines of, Sydney, you just can't go to sorority meetings when you're not enrolled here. Sydney, you have a few days to move out all of your belongings from the dorm rooms. Only full-time students can live on campus. You're not enrolled here. Sydney, is there something we can help you with? Why haven't you moved out yet after we've already told you you can't keep living in the dorms? Like we said before, you don't go here. Sydney had been a student at the University of Mount Union, but she had been put on academic probation and had been suspended from the school this semester, meaning she no longer went here at least for the time being that means she's not allowed to live on campus she's not allowed to attend classes engage in greek sorority life as far as michelle and john were concerned she's not a student here but she refuses to leave they had to wonder okay did she tell her parents yet is she trying to buy time march 3rd 2020 sydney's mom brenda she calls to ask the dean and the associate dean about her daughter.
2:25She's like, what's going on with Sydney? Is she in school? Is she not in school? Michelle and John, they had been in a meeting, so they didn't get around to calling her back for like an hour. Brenda picks up the phone and they're like, hi, this is, you know, Michelle and John calling you from the University of Mount Union. Hello, yes, thank you for calling me back. They didn't even start their conversation because it sounded like Brenda was getting attacked mid phone call. There was this loud thud that they heard. than this crazy scream and then more pounding. It was like six, seven pounds, like boom, boom, boom, boom.
2:57Really loud, just ringing through the phone. Michelle said that she heard some sort of eerie sound, kind of like an expulsion of air. Someone had like the wind knocked out of them. That's how she imagines it would sound. Michelle and John are sitting in an office with the phone on speakerphone in between them and their eyes are wide. They're looking at each other like, what is going on? So they keep asking through the phone, Brenda is everything all right over there do you need help is everything okay it sounds like someone's being attacked there's more screaming and then the line goes dead the office is silent immediately Michelle and John they start calling Brenda back they call her no response they call her a second time no response they call her a third time finally the line connects Brenda is that you are you there is everything all right finally a voice on the other end says yes this is Brenda.
3:50Michelle and John look at each other and their eyes are like probably bugging out of their head. They're confused and they're shaking their head slowly. They knew this was not Brenda. John says into the phone, this is not Brenda. Sydney, I know this is you. And the line goes dead. Sydney Powell, honor roll student, scholarship recipient had just murdered her mom with a cast iron skillet and stabbed her in the neck 30 times with a steak knife but why? as always, full show notes are available at RottenMinglePodcast.com this is a fairly recent case with a verdict coming through just a month ago, like September 22nd I want to say and it's interesting because it wasn't a trial of who did it and how they did it, which is normally what we see in these murder cases, homicide trials.
4:45But more so a question of, did the person know that murder is wrong? What? Yeah. So I feel like the tides on this case have been changing by the day while the trial was happening back in September. It felt like at one point everyone was 50-50. Then later I went back to check the discourse. Then it was like 70-30. So I'm just so interested to see what you guys have to think about this one. And with that being said, let's get started. March 3rd, 2020, Detective Kenneth is in the car when he hears the radio. Two faculty members of a local college called the police requesting a wellness check on one of their former students' houses.
5:21The radio said that it could be a potential break-in situation at this home. When he hears it's the Powell residence and he hears the address, his heart sinks. These are his friends. He went to school with Stephen Powell, the father of the house. He was the one that actually introduced Stephen Powell to his wife and the mother of their two kids, Brenda Powell, 25 years ago. Brenda was friends with Detective Kenneth's wife. So they were like, oh, your friend and my friend, they should totally date. Now they're married. They have two kids together. The kids are all old. They're like late teenagers and they could potentially be in danger.
5:57And another thing is, you know, the Powells, they were kind of the quintessential perfect American family. And I hate saying that because what does that even mean? Right. but genuinely by definition it would be the powells so we have brenda and stephen powell and their two kids sydney and then they have a younger son who's about like maybe two three years younger but if you ever saw a family and you thought wow they're super cute like they know what they're doing that's a strong family unit it would be the powells so stephen worked as a vice president at his family's company brenda worked as a child life specialist at akron Children's Hospital and she worked in the pediatric oncology center, which is a really rough job.
6:39You're dealing with children who have cancer. And most people, they don't really last long in that department before they are requested to be transferred. They just, it's a lot. It takes a toll to come to work every single day and see children suffering, holding their hand while they're in pain, when they're losing their hair, when you lose a kid. And then to also be there for parents who are anxious and grieving. It's so draining. But Brenda was there for almost three decades. And she was the one that's like, okay, if anyone's gonna be in here and make this a normal experience for the kids, it's gonna be me.
7:14So she would have these proms. So all the kids could go to prom. She would take them bowling. Everyone said she's like the mom in the hospital. She was the mom to the patient. She was the mom to the kids. But she was also a mom to the coworkers. she spent every christmas eve at the hospital with the kids even when she's not on shift everybody loved brenda and the powell daughter sydney she's kind of the exact daughter that you would imagine brenda to have honor roll student near 4.0 gpa in high school the lowest grade that she's ever received on her report card was like a b she gets admitted into the university of mount union which isn't that far away it's about less than an hour from their family home and she got in with not a full scholarship but a partial scholarship like a presidential scholarship is what they called it yeah and it covered a good chunk of her tuition she was always that kid that other parents are like why can't you be more like sydney powell and the family was so close they would go on family vacations every summer they would go to the beach disney world brenda and sydney they were known by everybody to just be more than mother and daughter they were like friends.
8:20Everyone said Sydney is Brenda's mini me. It's like copy paste. They would sit there for hours talking about anything, books, TV. They love doing puzzles together. They never fought. It was just such a cute relationship. Neighbors said that the Powells were just very involved in each other's lives. They're the ones like the family that you know, they know everything that's going on. They want to support each other. They would play sports in their yard. It's a very peaceful life. So when Kenneth hears that there's a potential break-in situation at the Powell house, his heart drops. He immediately calls Stephen Powell to make sure, hey, is everybody home?
8:57Is everybody okay? Like what's going on? Stephen has no idea what's going on. He's like, I'm at work. He starts calling his daughter Sydney because last he checked, he was under the impression that both of them are home, which means if there's a break-in, they could be in danger. He's frantic. He's calling. And as he's heading back, allegedly, something very strange happens. Sydney calls her dad back after a bunch of missed calls and explains rather calmly, nothing is going on. Mom's on the phone with my university right now. And then suddenly, Sydney becomes hysterical on the call and starts explaining, dad, someone broke in, someone broke in.
9:33I heard glass breaking. I heard glass breaking. So she's trying to create a whole scenario on the phone. But he already knew coming in. oh okay because he's already on the way so it might be that she's creating a scenario without i guess realizing allegedly that he already knew that the cops were on the way yeah and he lets her know yeah well police is on the way and the call goes dead so meanwhile the police rush to the scene of a potential break-in and this is very urgent you're talking 1 p.m on a tuesday nice typically very safe family-friendly neighborhood potentially residents at home When they get to the scene, there are no signs of intruders on the outside.
10:13So no suspicious cars parked in the driveway or the street. No masked figures hiding in the bushes, which is either really good or really bad. Either they left already or they're still in the house with two residents. One officer runs to the back of the house to try and find like an alternative way in. And a back window is broken. So he rushes in. And from the front, there's another officer who's pounding on the door. and finally it opens and it's sydney powell she is hysterical she's erratic she's screaming someone broken someone broken there's blood blood so much blood mom told me to get out to get out mom mom said get out the officer leads her outside i mean she's in no place to even talk straight like she's just hysterical right and they just want to get her out of the house so that they can clear the whole place the officer sits her on the ground outside and he's kind of um he's kind of holding her at arm's length and he's guiding her towards the end of the pavement so from an observational standpoint and not a factual standpoint just his body language the way that he's guiding and holding her out at arm's length a lot of netizens felt like the officer is on high alert of her already yeah he has her sit on the ground and there is blood on cindy's hands and feet like very recognizable yes at one point it does appear that maybe potentially maybe speculating here that she was trying to hide her hands away from the officer i'm not sure if this is us just thinking too much into it i'm not sure if that was her intention or if it was some sort of coping mechanism to just kind of put her hands away for my audio listeners i will describe all the notable parts of the body cam footage but it's not necessarily the most important watch you don't really see Sydney's face most of the time and it's just kind of a bunch of officers talking over each other.
12:03It's very hectic so I'm going to cover all the key points. Now, Sydney is hysterical. She keeps screaming, there's so much blood, please no, please so much blood, no, please. No, no, there's so much blood. No, please. Ma 'am. Ma 'am. Get her out of the door. No. No. Stop. Stop. eventually steven powell sydney's dad shows up because remember his detective friend had called and was like there's a break-in at your house so he's rushing home he starts running into the house before officers can stop him sydney is outside screaming daddy daddy there's so much blood dad glass blood thankfully officers stop him before he gets to brenda because his wife was laying on the floor of their shared bedroom, covered in blood, 30 puncture wounds to her neck, a cast iron skillet, and a bloody knife next to her head.
13:00She had been murdered. And outside was her daughter laying on the pavement, fully hysterical. Some said that she was becoming catatonic. She's clawing at the pavement, bleeding from her fingers. So she's clawing so hard that she's bleeding now. And apparently her eyes were rolling into the back of her head. She's laying her head down on the pavement. Her fingers are bleeding. There's blood on her feet. She's not responding to anyone. She just starts whispering at one point, get out, get out, get out, get out, like quietly to herself. That was on cam? Yeah. So most of the get out is on the ambulance on the way to the hospital, but it's just definitely something's going on.
13:41One officer is explaining the situation to a new officer who just arrived and he says, I got a female here. She's got minor cuts on her hands. She's like hyperventilating. That's all she has? Minor cuts on her hands? Yeah. In another moment, one officer points at Sydney and just states, yeah, that's the suspect. Which is a lot. Okay. It's kind of passive aggressive and it seems like law enforcement already believes a version of events, right? Like when Sydney said there was a break-in, why did they doubt it? Why? Because the whole house felt like one of those crime scene riddles. Do you know what I'm talking about?
14:17Those little riddles that you would do and it's like, oh, who killed the mailman on a Sunday? And you're like, okay, was it the maid? Was it this person? It's like you see this picture of the house and you're like, who's lying, right? Something's not right here. There were no signs of a break-in other than the window. So no ransacking of the home. The window was curiously broken from the inside out, which doesn't make sense if there's intruders. There was also blood on the shattered glass indicating that the window was broken after Brenda was already attacked because Brenda's blood was on the window parts.
14:53There were signs of a struggle between Brenda and Sydney. Sydney had minor cuts to her hands and she pretended to be her mom on the phone with her university. All signs are pointing to this was staged. This is not a break-in. Sydney killed her mom. But why? Why would a perfect honor roll student, mom's best friend, kill her mother? Yeah. Because her house of lies was starting to crumble down. Sydney had just been suspended from the University of Mount Union. After every semester at most institutions, there's usually a committee and they'll go through every student that has a certain GPA. And I'm sure for every school, the threshold is different, but they will take a look at students that all have a GPA of under like 2.3.
15:41They place them on academic probation. And once you're on academic probation, that means this semester, if your GPA doesn't go up, you're going to be suspended from school. Like you need to get your act together. We're not going to let you take leadership positions in any organizations, in sororities, fraternities. You're not even allowed to play sports. you're just here to study we've got counselors that are going to help you get back on track like we are going to tailor make plans and resources for you but you need to get your grades up because if you don't you get suspended now suspension it sounds bad because you know it is bad but it's basically the school saying you're suspended for a semester like we're on break you and me so take a semester to go home recalibrate your life rethink your life decision handle any personal matters that are making you stressed out from school figure out what your problem is on your own time.
16:30And typically when students come back from suspension, they resume where they started. Now it's the next semester, once they get back, they can't get their GPA up. Then they could be looking at dismissal, which means you cannot come back to the school. Like you're done. So suspension is kind of like a second chance. It's a reset. And compared to a dismissal or like an expulsion, I'm sure it's stressful, but it's nothing too bad. Like really in the grand scheme of life, you're going to be fine. Sydney Powell was suspended for the spring semester of 2020, meaning she was formally suspended starting January 2020.
17:05But literally, zero people in her life knew about this. But why is she suspended? Her GPA fell to 2.2. What happened? I don't know. Some people say that she was just struggling to adapt to college. Some people say that it could have been the freedom of living at the dorms instead of with her parents. Okay, so nothing big no in life that happened it didn't seem like there was a traumatic event that made her unfocused on her studies yeah i see so she doesn't tell her parents this her younger brother her best friends not even her roommate that she's known since they were kids maybe even earlier than that she told absolutely no one about her suspension and it's not like she ran away and hid from the world and cut off contacts so that she would never have to tell them.
17:51She stayed on campus. She lived on the dorms, pretended to study with her friends, walked to class with her friends, talked about her school work, even went to sorority meetings for almost two months. Sydney was getting away with it. And I'm genuinely so curious about exactly how she got away with it. Okay, so first of all, her key card was disconnected because she was suspended and technically no longer a student. So how is she getting into the dorm building? How is she getting into libraries or cafeterias or main buildings where the classes are held? Would she just wait around until she saw someone go in and tell them that she lost her card?
18:25But then also, how many times can you tell your friend that you lost your key card? And when everyone is walking to class, if you have your little backpack on, and she's like, oh, my class is that way, right? And then what? Do you just like wait outside? Do you go to the bathroom? Like, where are you going? Do you go back to the dorm room? Honestly, it's kind of fascinating that she pulled it off for two full months. Like the logistics of this operation is very interesting. Every little thing would require a lot of thought. It's not just... Everything is a lie. Everything you say is a lie. Yeah.
18:56And every action waiting in front of the building, you know, like these are all... Everything is thought out, kind of, is my opinion and a lot of people's opinion.
19:10now sydney is pretending to be enrolled in school for almost two months till the associate dean of students student affairs has a very confusing incident with another student the president of sydney sorority comes in and is like hey this is my roster of everyone that's going to be paying dues this semester and they have to like do a little check with all the enrollments it's like a whole administrative thing. And the president of the sorority is saying, we just got like a paperwork issue because we got an email saying that one of the sorority sisters is no longer enrolled at the school, but she's enrolled at the school and she just paid dues.
19:44And the associate dean is like, I feel like she's not enrolled here. Let me check. And she's like, no, I remember. I remember vividly. And she tells the president of the sorority she's actually not enrolled this semester. Now, Michelle does not reveal to this other student why Sydney was not enrolled. She never said she was suspended. A lot of people will just not enroll for a semester because they want to focus on other things. It's very normal. There's nothing bad about it. But the sorority student is like, uh, yeah, she is. I just saw her going to class yesterday and she's living in the dorm.
20:17So she's, she's for sure enrolled. And Michelle takes note of this. Later, she goes to check if Sydney had appealed the suspension because you can do that, but she hadn't. Records show that she was not enrolled. And that is so strange. How can she even go to classes when she's not enrolled? She literally can't sign up for classes. She's thinking, maybe Sydney doesn't even know she's suspended. But she knew. The school will send out an email alerting the student of their status, but they'll also send out a letter by mail and it has to be signed for. Sydney signed for the letter of suspension She knew that she was suspended.
20:56So Michelle called Sydney into their office and asked her, what's going on? Sydney at first is acting a little confused. She's like, was I suspended? Was I not suspended? Beats me. And Michelle is like, no, no, no, you're suspended. Like you cannot keep living on campus. Okay. Like if you need help telling your parents, if you need help packing, we can try to find you help, but you're not enrolled this semester. Sydney tells her, okay, yeah, no, it's fine. I can handle it. I just need a few days to move out, pack my things. Michelle is very understanding about this. She even reinstates Sydney's key card so that she can use it and make the process of moving out easier.
21:31Because how are you even getting into the dorm building right now? A few days later, Michelle goes to check the dorms to see if Sydney had moved out. And no, she had not moved out. Now, side note, it does seem like the school is being very particular about it, but it's the rules. I'm sure they have safety rules, occupancy rules. And also, Sydney didn't pay tuition. And you know, private institutions love their money. Yeah. Yeah, if you don't go to school, then you can't stay here. Yeah, exactly. So Michelle calls Sydney into the office again to talk about it. Like, hey, you know, you can't live here if you don't go here.
22:06This time, the dean of student affairs, so kind of like her boss, Michelle's boss, John Frazier was also in the office. And they were very nice. They tell her, listen, you can still visit your friends. You can still hang out here. But technically, you can't pretend to go to classes. You can't go to sorority meetings. You can't live on the dorm. this is late february of 2020 so the semester started january of 2020 that is more than enough time for sydney to have found her own place or go back home which is less than an hour away sydney's like yeah no i get it i just need a tiny bit more time to move up and they're thinking okay did you tell your parents what's going on yeah do you want us to ask your parents if they can help you move she's like no no it's fine like my parents are having problems with my brother and they're on vacation right now.
22:53So I'm just going to handle it myself. Michelle and John tell her that, you know, she could still visit and it's fine, right? Just can't live here. She officially leaves campus February 25th. Seven days later, she would kill her mom. March 3rd was spring break. Everyone in the Powell family was looking forward to it. So Mount Union was less than an hour away, but Cindy didn't really come home on the weekends. She would only come home to visit her family on holidays, on breaks, on special occasions. But spring break is a full week of family time. So the plan was March 3rd, Sydney would attend her classes, then come home at night to spend the rest of the week with her family.
23:33Brenda was so excited about this. She would call her mom, telling her mom like, oh, I'm going to take her shopping. I'm going to do this. I'm just so stoked. Like the excitement is there. But maybe it's also a good time to talk about all the weird things that the Powell parents had been experiencing. Because before spring break, Sydney started making more frequent trips to the house. And the pals thought it was a little strange because, well, she never really did this, but also she's coming home at times that there would normally be classes. So think weekdays nine to five. At one point, Brenda even texted Sydney about attending classes.
24:08And Sydney said, my teacher and her husband are on vacation. We just have to fill out these worksheets. And Brenda texted her, Why do I always feel like you're scamming me? Just remember, you need to keep your grades up to keep your scholarship. Sydney responded, Yes, I know. My grades are good. Thank you very much. Maybe Brenda was thinking this would be a good time to figure out what's going on with her daughter and just feel more connected with her. It seemed like both parents were kind of picking up things that weren't right with Sydney. Like something was clearly going on. even January 2020 Mr.
24:40Powell noticed that the tuition hadn't been taken from his account which she has a scholarship but like I said it's not a full ride so they need to pay tuition and it hadn't been withdrawn he thought it's weird so he goes to the online school portal to log in and see what's going on but it won't let him log in he's like okay he tells Sydney about it and she's like oh it's probably some sort of like tech issue like I'm gonna look into it don't worry I got it At first, he trusts her. He has no reason to doubt her. But slowly, things get a little bit stranger. And I don't think either of them had any idea like how bad it was.
25:14So she had a 2.2 GPA. She was suspended for the semester. She got kicked out of the dorm room. And the one week between leaving the dorm room to going for spring break at her parents' house, she was staying at random hotels and asking her friends if she could stay with them. Because she didn't want to tell her parents why she was home a week early. so even after that right it's spring break for a week and then what right so maybe she's you know finally it's it's coming to an end for her because what yeah like she can't hide it any longer she knows that yeah what is she planning on doing a week later well i guess she had no plans or she had other plans right so march 3rd 2020 sydney is supposed to be back later at night for spring break but Mr.
25:57Powell that day at work he tries to log into the online portal again and it's not working so he takes the initiative as a good dad to call the school personally and say hey listen like the tuition's not going through I don't know what the problem is and they tell him well the tuition isn't going through because Sydney is not enrolled this semester he's so confused he checks his Life 360 app which is the whole family uses it to share their locations so he doesn't use it that often I'm assuming. So he just randomly checks it because of this whole news. And Sydney is home. And she said that she had classes and she'd be coming home after classes at like, let's say six o 'clock.
26:32It's not six o 'clock yet. So maybe what the school is saying is true. But that would mean that she had been lying since January. Wait, when was this? March 3rd, the day of spring break. So Mr. Powell leaves his workplace to go see his daughter at home. But he also leaves his phone because he doesn't want Sidney to know that he's coming home to confront her. Wow. Yeah. So he shows up unannounced at the house and they talk. And it said that she just told him that she is still going to try and take some classes, do some homework on the side, but she's having a rough time. She confided in him that she wanted to maybe take the semester off.
27:11So he doesn't, it's speculated that he doesn't know that she was suspended. The school told him that she's not enrolled this semester. but because she's 19 she's a legal adult they're telling him like you got to ask her for the details i see so he doesn't know exactly like her grades all of that okay and i think she probably lost her scholarship i think i'm assuming right because i what i'm gathering from the trial and from what he's stating it seems like sydney still didn't tell him the truth that is the speculation because he just kept saying no i think that you should finish your classes and then summer break we can figure something out.
Read the full transcript
27:48It'll just be a lot cleaner that way. Like that's the way it should be done. But she kept saying that she's discouraged because all of her friends know what they want to do in life and she doesn't know and she doesn't have her shit together. And he's telling her, that's not true. Okay. So maybe tonight when your mom gets home from work, I still have to go back to work. Like we can all have a conversation about it. So he starts heading back to work. When he gets there, he ends up calling Brenda and telling her the gist of what happened with Sydney, giving her like the spark notes version. And she's like, you know what?
28:17I'm going to leave work early because this is a big deal. She says that she will talk to Mount Union. She will talk to Sydney and they're going to figure it out. It doesn't seem like Brenda was mad at all. She just wanted to help her daughter out and be there for her. So Brenda actually got her degree in childhood development. She's around children and conflict all the time. So she, if there's anyone that can handle a situation like this with compassion, but also a level of firmness, it's going to be Brenda. Just to give preface, Brenda's, I just can't imagine. And I don't think that this is what happened based on everybody's statements.
28:51She's not the type of mom that's going to come in screaming and kicking like, how dare you? You're disgusting. You're a disappointment. It seems like she would be a bit more gentle. You know, she's going to get to the bottom of it, but it's not going to be this horrendous experience. So on the way home, Brenda calls the dean of student affairs and they're both not picking up. So Michelle and John are both in a meeting. She leaves a message and they would call Brenda back, but she would already be home talking to Sydney at that point. By the end of the phone call, Brenda would have three puncture wounds to her neck and she would be hit on the head multiple times with a cast iron skillet.
29:26What happened next? There was a very large or a very loud sort of thud sound, like a pounding or a thud, accompanied by a pretty loud scream.
29:43and the scream might have actually been first and then the thud as I think about it and then there was sort of a an expulsion the other sound that I heard at that same time or right after was sort of an expulsion of air like the air was knocked out of somebody okay I'd always heard that expression of the air being not you know having the wind knocked out of you but I didn't that's actually what it sounded like. And then several more repeated thuds. Sydney's family, they paid the bail. She was sent to live with grandma, Brenda's mom, on a hundred acre farm. And a lot of netizens wondered how her grandma is okay with living with a person who killed her own daughter or how she even feels safe.
30:32But the whole family is standing behind Sydney. they believed that she was insane at the time of the murder that she never meant to kill her mom Sydney said I blacked out that day she remembers little flashes little bits of the day she remembers crying and feeling the need to get away and hearing these voices in her head that kept telling her that she's a loser and she's worthless and that she needs to kill herself and then she didn't know what was going on at one point she remembers hearing the glass break and then there was blood there was so much blood and she was trying to stop the blood and it was just there were cartoon figures and then fire was coming out of her hands.
31:07So she's saying, I didn't mean to do any of this. And her whole family is sticking behind her. But regardless of that, the case was going to go to trial. And Sidney's dad, Stephen Powell, the victim's husband, but also the defendant's dad said, this goes against what Brenda would have wanted. I don't know why we're doing this. This isn't what anyone wants here. I don't know how she can handle it. Meaning Sidney. I don't know how I can handle it. I'm trying to keep my family together. He said he a thousand percent believes that Sidney was having a psychotic break the day of the murder and should not be tried.
31:42Now, this case is going to be really, really trial heavy because, you know, we know the facts of the crime, right? But the main reason that this case has been so controversial and honestly, for lack of a better word, captivating for a lot of people is the trial itself. And the question of was Sidney Powell insane at the time of killing her mom? her best friend with a cast iron skillet and a steak knife a steak knife a steak knife it's a question of was it mental illness or was it psychosis because clearly she's unwell but that's not the problem here right because there these are two very different things i think the whole basis of the trial and pleading not guilty by reason of temporary insanity the defense has to prove that Sydney was insane at the time of the murder.
32:30Not mentally ill, not depressed, not schizophrenic, not anxious, but genuinely psychotically broken down, detached from reality, does not understand their actions. So that's very different. You can be depressed and schizophrenic and all these other things, but not be psychotic at the time of a murder, which I think that's been a huge part of why there's so much discourse around this case, because some people are arguing, no, the diagnosis is like, it's very easy to become psychotic with this diagnosis. Some people are saying, absolutely not. It's not like, what are you talking about? There's just a lot of discourse.
33:05But just something to keep in mind while we get into the trial. The argument is, was she insane at the time of the murder? Not before, not after, but during the murder. So that's mainly what the trial focuses on. And it does kind of bulldoze through Brenda's life. I think the whole situation is really sad. Brenda as a victim doesn't seem to have her story shared in a way that it likely would have been had the killer not been her own daughter. And the victim and the defense's families, they're the same family. I don't know. I just I guess I feel for Brenda Powell and her family. I'm sure it's a very complicated feeling, and I'm sure that the trial makes them feel victimized twice from this incident.
33:46So let's go over what we thought were the most pivotal arguments in the trial. and you can come to your own conclusion at the end. The defense argued that Sydney was suffering from blackouts and hallucinations. They brought in three experts to argue that Sydney was insane at the time of the murder. They said that she was experiencing auditory hallucinations, even visual hallucinations. She was seeing cartoon figures, that she saw water and flames squirting out of her hands. She felt like everyone was watching her, analyzing her, that the FBI was monitoring her. They stated that schizophrenia does tend to manifest in the late teenage years or early 20s.
34:22So Sydney was 19 at the time of the murder. It has been proven that there is a link between stress and triggering symptoms of schizophrenia or making it worse. They also argued that Sydney had two concussions when she was younger. So she got them while she was playing soccer as a kid. And there are speculations and some loose studies done. So I say loose not because there's no correlation, but loose because it seems like most medical professionals cannot agree definitively the link between concussions in early childhood and psychological problems later on. There's definitely could be a cause and effect, but we don't know exactly how strong it is.
34:58And we've gone through this whole thing. We talked about a lot of serial killers that we covered when we were just doing audio episodes, but a lot of them would fall off swings and hit their heads. And it was always the swings. There are also some studies that show that concussions and brain trauma can have early links to schizophrenia. But those don't really seem to be fleshed out studies. But a huge argument the defense had was, what would be the reason for Sydney to kill her mom? It seems like taking one small problem and blowing it up, you know? They argued that she didn't even go through the basic steps someone would take after murdering.
35:32She didn't wash the blood off of her. She didn't change her clothes. She didn't flee in her car. There's like three cars parked in the driveway. they said that her actions were insane she had no motive there was no planning of the incident there was no attempt to flee afterwards they argue she's clearly losing her mind she's whispering get out get out get out to herself while being transported to the hospital she's seeing hallucinations she's hearing voices telling her to hurt herself maybe they even speculated during the trial maybe she saw brenda as an extension of herself and thought she was hurting herself that train of thinking was quickly put out by the court but they said the day of the murder she's catatonic you know you see her in the body cam footage at the end of the driveway i mean she is not there she's incoherent she cannot talk to anyone the expert said and i quote nobody's home she's gone nobody's home up there she's completely lost awareness they also argue that after being released on bail she spent nine days in psychiatric care nine days they argue that the doctors were only there to figure out what was wrong with her and she was diagnosed with schizophrenia at that point and given heavy medication.
36:39They said she has no history of violence, no history of antisocial behavior, substance abuse, or any major prior mental disorders. Brenda was also comforting Sydney in her last moments. Why would she kill her? The prosecutors argued that there is no evidence of her being broken or detached from reality. So now the state, you know, are saying, other than her saying I hallucinated, we don't see any of these symptoms before, during, or after the murder. And that's not the argument. The argument is during the murder. So they're like, let's look at during the murder, right? So clearly, clearly, Sydney was exhibiting symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks before the murder.
37:22Okay. So a lot of her friends testified, like, you know, she was definitely withdrawing from us and our friend group. And the defense kind of tried to use these as, see, she was going through it. And the prosecutors are like, anxiety and depression are not blackouts and hallucinations. That's mental illness. We're talking psychosis, very different things. They also argued that her constant lies to everyone around her about still being in college. That is not consistent with a psychotic break. They said that is not consistent of a false reality that she's living in. So the defense says she's so unhinged.
37:54She created this false reality that she's still in college. And the prosecutors are saying, no, that's just more consistent with someone that is deceiving and manipulating and lying and doesn't want to face the truth. At one point, the prosecutor's side brought up that Lauren, so a good childhood friend of Sydney and her roommate in college. So she was brought up to the stand to testify. And Lauren never mentioned a thing about Sydney having blackouts or hallucinations. And the state is arguing if anyone was going to see that side of Sydney, it was going to be her roommate that she's sharing these cramped quarters with.
38:28she said sydney was fine she seemed a little stressed out she seemed like maybe anxious but i didn't see any blackouts or hallucinations another friend of sydney's was brought in to testify and she said that sydney reported having these really vivid dreams they were apparently so scary like these nightmares were so intense that sydney would be a bit shaken up for a few days afterwards a lot of netizens had problems with this testimony they argued i also have nightmares and I sleepwalk. I have sleep paralysis like every other night and I never thought about killing my mom. Others argued this is just getting goofy.
39:04Everyone is just grasping at straws to make it seem like this girl is suffering from hallucinations when like the rest of us she's just having vivid nightmares. Which to clarify I personally am not downplaying anyone's experiences with vivid dreams or their emotional response to it right but I'm just informing you guys of a lot of the netizen discourse about this particular subject because this clip kind of went viral on like YouTube shorts even. And the only thing that I can say about this is I think the argument for insanity just was not the strongest here. Like you cannot plead insanity. And then one of your friends is like, she would have these really intense nightmares.
39:38Did Sydney ever talk to you about, did you ever aware of any kind of hallucinations or vivid, vivid visuals or anything like that she would mention very vivid dreams whether if it was dreams while she was sleeping or daydreams i don't remember but she would have these vivid dreams that she would tell us about that really would scare her and she would be very shy for the next couple days after even if sydney was genuinely insane at the moment i think this argument is bad got it so i think that's why a lot of people were picking at it and like oh what what is this you know.
40:23Now, another moment that kind of gets brought up in the same vein is one of Sydney's high school teachers testified about an incident during junior year where Sydney was freaked out about having to give a presentation at school. And she said that all the numbers were kind of getting blurry in her mind. She was so anxious. They're jumbled together. I didn't have a class, so it must have been when I had a planning period and I was alone in my room and the two of them came in and Sydney was crying and she was she was I would say distraught and I said you know what's what's wrong and she said that she had a tester I think was a presentation for chemistry class and she said I can't I can't see the numbers and I said why what do you mean you can't see the number she's like I can't see the numbers I can't present I can't see what's in front of me and I said okay I said you know how can I help you what do you want me to do and I I mean, she was really upset.
41:15She was pretty upset about it. So I said, well, what do you want me to do? Do you want to go down and talk to the teacher or do you want me to? And she asked me to go. So I went down and I talked to her teacher and I said, look, Sydney's really upset. She says she can't see the numbers. She's asking if she could take the test on another day. And the teacher said, yes, of course. And so I went up and told Sydney. And so I assumed she took the test on another day. I wasn't the person in charge of that test. okay this was used by the defense as a way of saying hey these issues these psychological issues were there since she was younger and stress can make it worse prosecutors will argue that's just a panic attack lots of people have panic attacks doesn't mean they go kill people like that's not a psychotic break so i don't know you know some people like the arguments some people felt like is this even a strong correlation with insanity anyway to say that she was hallucinating to the point of killing someone and then her friend saying that she had vivid dreams just overall not a great look for the defense but the same friend amanda did say that whenever sydney was stressed out she would confide in her mom and the defense used this to argue sydney had no reason to kill her mom her mom was on her side but the prosecutors argued the same point but oppositely they said actually she would be willing to go to great lengths to not disappoint her mom.
42:38Even Amanda backed that up. She said, yeah, Sydney, as a friend from what I knew, she would not want to disappoint her parents. Prosecutors argue the timing of when Sydney killed her mom seems consistent with their theory that her mom is on the phone. She's about to find out the full truth of Sydney's lies. Not even, hey, I want to take some time off of school and figure out what I want to do. But no, your grades are bad. You're going to lose your scholarship. You're being suspended. The disappointment must have been huge. Maybe even the biggest that Sydney would have to get from her mom and maybe the anticipation of that, the stress of that in that moment, it was a crime of passion for her wanting to prevent her mom from finding out the truth.
43:15They argued as for Sydney freaking out when the cops arrive, whispering, get out, because a lot of people use this as she was having a psychotic breakdown. They're saying, actually, that could be a very normal trauma response to killing someone. Even if you're not in psychosis, if you kill someone, you're going to have a strong mental emotional reaction. It doesn't mean that she was necessarily insane the whole time she killed her mom. She could have been very well sane and then had a breakdown after the shock kicked in that, oh my God, I just killed my mom. They argued that her answering the phone during and right after the murder and pretending to be her mom does not feel like she was disassociating from reality.
43:54They said it felt more like she was trying to buy time. The prosecutors also poured through her text, email search history before the murder and everything seemed normal. They said at that point when you're in that state where you can't even tell that murder is wrong and that you're murdering your mom, your search history is going to be weird. Your actions are going to be weird. Your call log history, your text messages, they're going to be weird. They're not going to be normal. She even went to a viewing party of The Bachelor with her friends the night before. The prosecutors argue, what, are we talking about temporary insanity for five minutes?
44:28In the end, they argue that the defense's experts relied heavily on everything Sydney said to them after the murder. But that's not the point. The prosecutors are arguing it's during the murder. Was she insane during the murder? And they think all signs lead to no. They argued all the defense experts are drawing from their interactions with her after the murder instead of during. They also don't even think Sydney had schizophrenia during the murder. They said she had borderline personality traits, malingering, which is someone who exaggerates and stretches the truth to get out of work or obligations, and probably had some sort of anxiety disorder.
45:04There are a few people, well, not a few people, a lot of people online that have armchair diagnosed her with narcissism. A lot of people speculate that she did this because Sydney's whole identity became being smart. being the honor roll kid, being the kid that everybody else's parents are so jealous of. She based her superiority and her identity based on that. And when that was about to come crumbling down, she had to prevent people from finding out the truth. So she did something so drastic because that can really be the only way to, I guess, for a lot of people to connect a motive to the situation.
45:40Yeah, I feel like we've heard of that before. Yeah. I mean, there are a few more notable parts of the trial that netizens have been talking about. So we're just going to quickly cover those. For one, Sydney was crying a lot throughout the trial. Some netizens argued that Sydney kept squeezing her eyes, trying to make sniffling noises, but no tears ever came out. I will say that she did exhibit some really intense facial emotions during the trial. So whether they were natural and a byproduct of her feeling those said emotions or her faking it, I guess that's up for you to decide. But she was seen constantly crying.
46:12She was seen covering her ears, cringing, like physically reacting to what people were saying on the stand, specifically people who are not on her side, I guess. Right. Just covering her ear. Yeah. So that's a huge argument as well. Right. So when she's covering her ear, a lot of netizens didn't like it. They were saying the act of covering her ear feels very childish. And it's like a little kid that's like, I can't hear you. I don't want to hear you. Right. She's 23. at the time of the trial. I don't think that I would have done that at 23. It's just very odd. There must be some psychological reasons behind that motion, right?
46:52So there's two sides to it. So the people that are very, not pro-Sydney, right? Like they think that she's faking it. This is all a plea to get out of jail. They think that she's doing this to kind of seem like a baby. Seem like a baby to the jury. Or maybe it's just so natural to her. Like this is how she handles herself with her family. She doesn't like something. She covers her ear. She doesn't like it. She doesn't look at it. Okay. I mean, maybe that's how she approached the whole school thing. She just won't look at it. So people think that this is a type of behavior that her family must have cultivated and encouraged somehow.
47:32And it's showing up in court. Other people are saying, well, no, like we also struggle with mental illnesses. and it could be so that she doesn't trigger something in her when she's listening to it. But I don't know, right? Like, what do you guys think about her covering her ear? She's 23 at this point. Seems very interesting. Yeah, it's interesting. Another point of contention during the trial was Sydney was allowed to be excused a lot during the more intense parts of the trial. During the body cam footage viewings and the forensic pathologist testimonies, she was allowed out of the courtroom and netizens felt like, again, why are we babying a full-grown woman?
48:07This is what she did. and she can't even confront what she did? Others said she's already on her path to recovery. This would unnecessarily send her back. Why? Like, do you think that she doesn't know what she did? So it kind of feels like there's two main camps. One camp who's like, yeah, no, she's not mentally insane at the time of the murder. Look at the things that she did. She picked up the phone pretending to be her mom, staged a crime scene, broke a window, did all of these things. So no, no insanity. Then you have another camp that's like, well, I've struggled with something like this, and you truly don't know what it's like until you've been there.
48:38but there's actually a third group that's like, I struggle with schizophrenia and I would never do this. And the fact that she's trying to use schizophrenia as a way to get out of this heinous crime makes it harder for us. The people who struggle with it nonstop and don't commit crimes. It only further stigmatizes schizophrenia and becomes yet another link made by the general population between the diagnosis of schizophrenia and violence. And then you have a lot of netizens who just blame the family and Sydney for what happened. They believe that Sydney was spoiled and made to believe that she would get away with anything.
49:10They think that she did this because she doesn't understand the consequences of her actions and they argue that them bailing her out immediately and babying her and rallying around her is a prime example of that. This is what they're saying. I genuinely have no opinion on this case. A big point of contention though for this group was that Brenda's mom was testifying. So this is Sydney's grandma. And a lot of netizens felt like Brenda's own mom doesn't seem that emotional that her granddaughter killed her own daughter. She seemed more emotional on the stand talking about how the police made her go to the wrong hospital the day of and how it took them so long to take out the audio recorder to record the interview.
49:47They were like, it's just so weird that she doesn't seem gutted. But then again, we really don't know these people. We don't know how they grieve and I don't think we are able to dictate that. So I really don't know. So on the defense side, we had three expert psychologists that testified she was schizophrenic and insane at the time of the murder. The prosecutor brought forth one expert. Now, something to note is that the defense side, did you know that you have to pay for these experts? So, you know, they're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. I'm sure a part of it is, but it was reiterated over and over again during the trial that each of the three defense experts were paid anywhere between$8 ,000 to$15 ,000 to testify.
50:27So they're paid around$250 ,000 to$350 ,000 an hour. That's so interesting. Yeah. So you can pay like for a bunch of, quote, experts, to defend you in court. Yeah, but I mean, definitely, if they're lying, it could damage their reputation and they could lose this source of income. But I, you know, it's one of those things where humans aren't perfect though. So you have to wonder how much confirmation bias is playing a role in either side, both sides really. And what's interesting is that while all this online discourse is happening, it does seem that Sydney's lawyers were taking note. So, which it's a speculation, but if it's true, I guess it's good.
51:06That's what good attorneys do. But to give you an example, early on in the trial, Sydney showed up with black nail polish. And a lot of netizens pointed to the fact that it just seemed like she didn't care. She just, they hated her nails. It stood out when she was wiping her face with her tears. And very soon after the rest of the trial, natural nails, no black nail polish. So it does seem like someone on the team was listening to social media discourse, potentially speculating here. Also, they requested that she have a therapy dog during the trial, which a lot of people were so upset by like emotional support dogs yeah this you know listen i'm all for therapy dogs i'm all for emotional support dogs but when wait so there was a big dog sitting next no no they rejected oh because you know it's like during trials there was another case we recently did where they asked for like a blanket or something yes a comfort blanket and you're like just i'm sorry but you're gonna have to suck it up sometimes this is kind of one of those situations yeah especially in front of i mean this case is different but when there's victims families yeah yeah yeah it's kind of like all right you don't get to you don't get to do that right now i mean this trial is just filled with a lot of heated moments the most questionable moment outside of the murder itself was when sydney's attorney had this really odd intimate moment with her in the courtroom so sydney is sitting down and he's approaching his chair so he's standing walking towards her he puts one hand on her shoulder but it's near her neck which you know one would argue is kind of an intimate positioning and then he leans his head down and whispers something super close to her ear it almost looks like he's kissing her head that's how close he is and she mouths something to him and it seems like she says i love you later the attorney stated he whispered brenda loves you and so do i a small group of people felt like that's refreshing for someone to have an attorney that genuinely cares about them that's good others argue not the time nor the place some people said it just felt really strange like a little unprofessional a really weird like never seen before in a courtroom type vibe in the end 23 year old sydney was found guilty of murder assault and tampering with evidence she was sentenced to life in prison but she can get out in 15 years on parole, which means if she serves the minimum sentence, she will be 38 years old when she gets out, which honestly is not that old.
53:33Sydney and her team plan to appeal this decision and her attorney said this was injustice. So there's just been a lot of mixed reactions. You know, half the people, I would say a good majority of the people seem very happy that she was found guilty. They believe that Sydney is a narcissist using mental health to try and get away from her consequences. They think that she was feeling superior to everyone by being a good student and now that she had lost that, she was losing her ego and narcissists will kill to protect their ego. A netizen said she was sane enough to pose as her mom on the phone with the deans and sane enough to make up a story about strangers breaking in.
54:09If you're insane, you don't have the capacity to cover up your crimes. I hope the jury sees all that and holds her accountable. Even if her condition is severe and that's what caused her to murder her mother, then she's sick enough to live in a mental institution for the rest of her life. You don't allow a person like that that's capable of things like this to walk amongst the rest of us. Another netizen said, When you're schizophrenic, you can absolutely lie and try to cover up things when you're in the middle of an episode or psychosis. The part of her brain during psychosis that made her kill her mother would be the same part of her brain that is telling her to lie and cover it up.
54:43Schizophrenia is a very scary illness, especially when left untreated. I don't know. What are your thoughts? How do you think the appeal is going to go? Do you think this was justice? Do you feel safer knowing that Sydney's not going to be on the streets at least for 15 years? Or do you think this was a major injustice and now mental health will be even more stigmatized? And this is just another reminder of that, right? I don't think that I have a personal opinion on this one, just mainly because of how complicated it is. Even though there's technically justice, the victim's family feel even more injustice with the verdict so it's just a situation where I don't think I can really have an opinion it's just hard for me to say one way or another but I will say just an observation of years of being interested in these types of cases Sydney is eligible for parole in 15 years for a violent murder that to me just from like the history of what we've seen so far personally doesn't seem like a lot and I'm not saying she deserves it, doesn't deserve it.
55:42It's not like a take on that. It just seems like it does seem like the sentencing itself was a little more lenient, even though the verdict was not what they were hoping for. Yeah. It's just sad. A lot of netizens said for Brenda's family and her co-workers that loved her, they're being robbed twice. They're robbed of Brenda, but some of them might even feel robbed to the right to get justice. Like you want to hate the person that took this mother figure out of your life, but it was her own child that she cherished and loved. So how are you supposed to feel about it? And that is the current viral case of Sidney Powell.
56:19What are your thoughts? Not to be confused with the other Sidney Powell that's also in a trial, but that one's a political one. Yeah. It's all about the election and stuff. Anyway. Yeah. Let me know your thoughts and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye.
From the publisher
Every college student has their secrets - but Sydney’s was that she was no longer in college. She had been suspended but hadn’t told a single person. She stayed in her dorm, pretended to go to class, studied with friends in the library, even attended sorority meetings.
She was living a lie - and it was all about to come crashing down because her mom was on the phone with her school. She was about to discover the truth and all the lies Sydney had told.
Sydney grabbed a heavy cast iron skillet & steak knife… her murder weapons. She would murder her mom, and her family would stand behind her. Was Sydney legally insane at the time of the killing? Or was she willing to do anything to keep her secret - secret?
Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.